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Israel/Zionism
See other Israel/Zionism Articles

Title: Albert Einstein A Plagiarist?
Source: The Guardian - UK 8-29-03
URL Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,3928978-103681,00.html
Published: Apr 5, 2006
Author: By Rory Carroll in Rome
Post Date: 2006-04-06 00:05:11 by Horse
Keywords: None
Views: 777
Comments: 122

Einstein's E=mc2 'was Italian's idea'

Rory Carroll in Rome
Thursday November 11, 1999
Guardian

The mathematical equation that ushered in the atomic age was discovered by an unknown Italian dilettante two years before Albert Einstein used it in developing the theory of relativity, it was claimed yesterday.

Olinto De Pretto, an industrialist from Vicenza, published the equation E=mc2 in a scientific magazine, Atte, in 1903, said Umberto Bartocci, a mathematical historian.

Einstein allegedly used De Pretto's insight in a major paper published in 1905, but De Pretto was never acclaimed, said Professor Bartocci of the University of Perugia.

De Pretto had stumbled on the equation, but not the theory of relativity, while speculating about ether in the life of the universe, said Prof Bartocci. It was republished in 1904 by Veneto's Royal Science Institute, but the equation's significance was not understood.

A Swiss Italian named Michele Besso alerted Einstein to the research and in 1905 Einstein published his own work, said Prof Bartocci. It took years for his breakthrough to be grasped. When the penny finally dropped, De Pretto's contribution was overlooked while Einstein went on to become the century's most famous scientist. De Pretto died in 1921.

"De Pretto did not discover relativity but there is no doubt that he was the first to use the equation. That is hugely significant. I also believe, though it's impossible to prove, that Einstein used De Pretto's research," said Prof Bartocci, who has written a book on the subject.

Einstein's theory held that time and motion are relative to the observer if the speed of light is constant and if all natural laws are the same. A footnote established the equivalence of mass and energy, according to which the energy (E) of a quantity of matter (m) is equal to the product of the mass and the square of the velocity of light (c). Now known as: E=mc2 .

The influence of work by other physicists on Einstein's theory is also controversial. A German, David Hilbert, is thought by some to have been decisive.

Edmund Robertson, professor of mathematics at St Andrew's University, said: "An awful lot of mathematics was done by people who have never been credited - Arabs in the middle ages, for example. Einstein may have got the idea from someone else, but ideas come from all sorts of places.

"De Pretto deserves credit if his contribution can be proven. Even so, it should not detract from Einstein."

Guardian Unlimited © Guardian Newspapers Limited 2006
Poster Comment: I posted this in response to 2 insults questioning what I said to be true. That Einstein was a plagiarist and that the Jewish people control the press in America. Notice that this was published in England as was the paper on the Israeli lobby as the Jewish control on the press is very tight here. I am not starting a flame war. I just do not take insults well.

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#79. To: Anonymous Dead Indian (#78)

But by this standard shouldn't you be the first person tossed out on their ear? Is this what you want?

You just don't understand narrow minded obsessed nuts.

There are actually two standards. One for himself and one for everyone else on the planet. He's stating the second standard in his post. It doesn't apply to him. It only applies to everyone else.

So there.

KOOK!

ROTFLOL!

BAC  posted on  2006-04-07   21:52:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#80. To: Jethro Tull (#77)

And who appointed Faisal to such a position? Wasn't he a creation of the British empire?

Faisal was at various times King of Syria and Iraq, as well as the leader of Hashemite tribes in the Mid East (I'm not entirely sure about "boundaries").

Also, if you recall the movie "Lawrence of Arabia", Faisal was the King played by Anthony Quinn. What was mostly true was how Faisal drew together the various disparate tribes into a cooperation with the British (under "Lawrence"'s guidance) to defeat the Turks and capture Damascus. For this cooperation Faisal and the Arabs would have a united kingdom from Iraq to Morocco.

So in the sense the British "united" the arabs under Faisal against a common enemy (the Turks) yes they created him.

But Faisal did have his Hashemite pedigree behorehand as well as king of Syria and Iraq at one time.

Given that "Palestine" was previously under the control of the Turks, one can not expect a formal designation of a ruler or (spokesperson) other than a Turk until the Turks were defeated. It would seem Faisal by racial similarity to the Palestinians and by being the nearest legitimate king-like figure, in some sense stepped into a vacuum.

(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)

Starwind  posted on  2006-04-07   21:56:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#81. To: BAC (#79)

There are actually two standards. One for himself and one for everyone else on the planet. He's stating the second standard in his post. It doesn't apply to him. It only applies to everyone else.

OK. When you put it that way there does seem to be a weird kind of logic to it. I'm glad you are here. I don't think I could get into phaedrus' head like you can. Someday you'll have to explain byeltsin to us.

Anonymous Dead Indian  posted on  2006-04-07   21:57:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#82. To: Starwind (#80)

SO Faisal was the King played by Anthony Quinn in Lawrence of Arabia ??? You're a walking history lesson, Starwind :)

Jethro Tull  posted on  2006-04-07   22:01:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#83. To: Phaedrus (#18)

Don't let the kooks push you around.

We have many advantages over normal people. Our definition of "truth" can mean many different things at once. We are unconstrained!

I have heard that many normal people don't even have voices in their heads to guide them. They are pushovers!

Also, there are many more nuts than normal people! Remember that!

ROTFLOL!

BAC  posted on  2006-04-07   22:10:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#84. To: Starwind, Jethro Tull (#76)

People were trying to fair. It was not a simple situation.

The British and French Mandates were a product of the Versailles Treaty and this was a late form of colonialism. The Zionist Jews were attempting to gain control of the Holy Land as per the promises made to them by the British in the Balfour Declaration. When the British split Palestine off from the rest of Transjordan, Chaim Weizmann was heard to complain, "Already you are making it smaller."

A simple situation it was not, and the conniving Jews made the situation that much worse.

"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue! Sen. Barry Goldwater

BTP Holdings  posted on  2006-04-07   22:13:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#85. To: Starwind, Jethro Tull (#80)

But Faisal did have his Hashemite pedigree behorehand as well as king of Syria and Iraq at one time.

And the British split off a portion of eastern Transjordan and gave it to Iraq. This is the current boundary line.

Jordan, also known as southern Syria, was created to stop Syrian access to the Persian Gulf by way of the rivers in Iraq. This tactic was part and parcel of the British attempts to keep Arab nationalism under wraps, a policy picked up later by the U.S., which we see in the form of the CIA-sponsored coups d'etat which overthrew lawfully elected governments in both Iraq and Iran.

"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue! Sen. Barry Goldwater

BTP Holdings  posted on  2006-04-07   22:21:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#86. To: BAC (#83)

We have many advantages over normal people. Our definition of "truth" can mean many different things at once. We are unconstrained!

I have heard that many normal people don't even have voices in their heads to guide them. They are pushovers!

Also, there are many more nuts than normal people! Remember that

Hey BAC, would you be able to give us a proper definition of "normal?"

Watch you step on this one. Or should I say, "Get way out on that limb so I can saw it off behind you." ;0)

"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue! Sen. Barry Goldwater

BTP Holdings  posted on  2006-04-07   22:27:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#87. To: Jethro Tull (#82)

SO Faisal was the King played by Anthony Quinn in Lawrence of Arabia

Feel free to drop that little tid bit at your next soire'. Yeah, the chics really go for the history/movie buffs :-/

(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)

Starwind  posted on  2006-04-07   22:41:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#88. To: BTP Holdings (#85)

which we see in the form of the CIA-sponsored coups d'etat which overthrew lawfully elected governments in both Iraq and Iran

And our meddling continues to this day. Bush, and his cabal won't be satisfied with anything less than a Middle East of, by and for Mother Israel. But what I find really weird is the strange brew of religion and politics that they’re introducing to the populice. It’s evil to its core. Isn’t it amazing that the most secular of all institutions, the UN, created what some consider the most hollowed of all lands. The entire mess is a cluster f**k.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2006-04-07   22:49:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#89. To: Starwind (#87)

I will. I love that movie. I'm due for my yearly viewing soon.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2006-04-07   22:51:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#90. To: BTP Holdings (#74)

One thing about this so-called European guilt. This is the end result of the brainwashing instigated by the Marxist Jews after the war with the full consent of the Allies and the collaboration of the Soviets.

That might be so. The reason I said it is because I got to know several Europeans in grad school, and all of them mentioned something like this. I did talk politics with them.

If you have a problem with this, you need to study the period of history directly after the end of the war from a diferent perspective than what you seem to be coming from.

First, why should I do anything at all about it? It's coming from them, not from me, I'm just the messenger. If anyone needs to study anything, it's the Europeans who told me about it, and not me. Second, you are awfully quick to tell me about what you think are the limitations of my knowledge, based on your own assumptions about me. I submit you don't know as much about me as you think. In all likelihood, you don't know as much about world history as you think either. Third, I have a problem with Marxists whether they are Jewish or not - in much the same way that I have a problem with plagiarists, whether they are Jewish or not (to attempt to bring the thread back on topic).

I say this with full knowledge of the truth of the matter.

Yes, you are the indisputible world expert on this matter, and many others no doubt. In your own mind, at least. Everyone who disagrees with you is simply ignorant - according to you. No other explanation for disagreement fits into your worldview. "Full knowledge" indeed!

freeedom  posted on  2006-04-08   0:09:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#91. To: Neil McIver (#42)

Still anxiously awaiting enlightenment about the meaning intended to be conveyed by: "Jews being THE issue," and about what particular interpretation of "Jew" makes the statement: "The Jews control the press" a reasonable position to take in a debate. Points you inexplicably neglected to make in your follow-up posts to me.

I await your wisdom.

freeedom  posted on  2006-04-08   0:17:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#92. To: freeedom, christine (#91)

Still anxiously awaiting enlightenment about the meaning intended to be conveyed by: "Jews being THE issue," and about what particular interpretation of "Jew" makes the statement: "The Jews control the press" a reasonable position to take in a debate. Points you inexplicably neglected to make in your follow-up posts to me.

I was going to include a response about that but thought it a bit petty so I deleted it.

The first reference to "THE" in all caps was #6 by christine:

because we allow open and free discussion of THE topic.

Not "THE jews" or "THE issue" but "THE topic". If you want to know more detail about what christine meant by this reference, I'll have to refer you.

If you're instead referring to my statement about what the intended meaning of "jew" is since it seems to mean different things to different people, then you infer some negative connotation that simply isn't there. I'm not defending or attacking anyone on either side of THE topic. I'm just trying to communicate.

Neil McIver  posted on  2006-04-08   0:55:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#93. To: Anonymous Dead Indian (#78)

But by this standard shouldn't you be the first person tossed out on their ear?

Not true but I'd be pleased to have you cite any post where you think I've indulged in any of these bad habits. Bear in mind that if someone has been called a liar and has in fact lied, that is acceptable. Truth is an adequate defense against a charge of slander.

Phaedrus  posted on  2006-04-08   7:44:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#94. To: BAC (#83)

Don't let the kooks push you around.

lol ... not bloody likely.

Phaedrus  posted on  2006-04-08   7:46:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#95. To: All (#94)

Regarding Palestine, have a listen to Ben Freedman back in '61 who had first hand experience how things are shaped and conveniently omitted from our history books. Expect a 'reality shift' if you haven't heard this before.

http://iamthewitness.com/DarylBradfordSmith_Freedman.html (Check the 40 minute excerpt first)

Rainingfish  posted on  2006-04-08   10:07:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#96. To: Rainingfish (#95)

Thanks for the link, Rainingfish. I've enjoyed this thread.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2006-04-08   10:14:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#97. To: Jethro Tull (#96)

Likewise JT and most welcome, pass it on. ; )

Rainingfish  posted on  2006-04-08   10:33:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#98. To: freeedom (#95)

Pinging you to the Freedman speech posted by Rainingfish since you said you didn't know what Zionism is. Perhaps you'll have a better understanding of what I meant by THE topic after listening to this or by thinking two words--Ernst Zundel.

christine  posted on  2006-04-08   11:14:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#99. To: christine (#98)

I looked up Zundel on Wikipedia. What does the fact that an individual is being prosecuted for Holocaust denial, have to do with whether or not "Jews control the press," etc, as Horse stated and to which I objected?

Furthermore, what exactly should I make of your use of "THE topic?" Not "a topic" and not even "the topic" but "THE topic." Makes me think that you somehow see Jews behind everything worth discussing on this board. Please tell me that I misunderstand.

freeedom  posted on  2006-04-08   13:48:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#100. To: freeedom (#99)

Makes me think that you somehow see Jews behind everything worth discussing on this board. Please tell me that I misunderstand.

You *do* misunderstand, the question is why? I think the intentions of the posters, and the owners of this forum are clear. THE topic is a topic that isn't allowed a full airing on other forums. Surely you know this. To toss insults around (see above) leads me to believe you'd like nothing more than to control speech. Sorry, you're in the wrong neighborhood.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2006-04-08   14:34:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#101. To: Jethro Tull (#100)

Surely you know this.

Nope, but thanks for telling me.

To toss insults around (see above) leads me to believe you'd like nothing more than to control speech. Sorry, you're in the wrong neighborhood.

I haven't insulted anyone, directly, here (e.g. xyz is a moron) - but for an uncensored, free speech forum people here are awfully quick to feel insulted by what I write. I have already stated twice that I wouldn't censor, but I wouldn't ignore either. There - that makes three times.

As for THE topic, all I can add is this: Local Jew Feels Left Out Of Worldwide Jewish Conspiracy

Well, maybe I can add a joke, too: A Rabbi walks into a bookstore, and sees one of his friends reading Nazi literature. He asks the guy, why are you reading that? He responds "Well, the stuff you like to read shows us as weak, oppressed, victims, but in the stuff I'm reading we control the press and media, banks, governments, all businesses, international institutions, and everything else of significance. Which would you rather read?"

freeedom  posted on  2006-04-08   15:20:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#102. To: freeedom (#101)

I'd laugh at your joke if it weren't for the fact that our military is currently engaged in reshaping the face of the Middle East for the benefit of Israel.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2006-04-08   15:33:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#103. To: freeedom (#99)

Makes me think that you somehow see Jews behind everything worth discussing on this board. Please tell me that I misunderstand.

You do misunderstand. I don't think that, but so what if I did? Haven't I the right to think that and the right to express it as do you to think that Islamic fascists are responsible for all terrorism? I'm not saying that you do, but if you did, you'd have a lot more freedom to say so without being labeled anti-semetic or racist. When's the last time someone was forced to shut up and/or prosecuted and imprisoned for these opinions as Zundel and others have been for voicing their opinions on zionists/jews?

christine  posted on  2006-04-08   15:57:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#104. To: christine (#103)

http://www.angryamerica.com/

model citizen...no discipline

Thanks for Prohibition and the war against drugs. Thanks for a country where nobody's allowed to mind their own business. Thanks for a nation of finks. Yes, thanks for all the memories-- all right let's see your arms!- William S Burroughs

Dakmar  posted on  2006-04-08   16:03:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#105. To: christine (#103)

You write as if criticism of Islamic terrorists is the moral equivalent of criticism of Isreal. To my knowledge, Isreal does not call for the destruction of any or all Arab states, while at the least Palestine and Iran have called for the deaths of Isrealis, and the destruction of Isreal. Incidentally, Zundel isn't being prosecuted here (to my knowledge) and so your citation of his example has little bearing here. Yes, other countries are unjust for their own reasons, but that doesn't prove anything about what goes on in America. Certainly it doesn't prove that "Jews control the press" here - if anything, it proves the opposite, because if they did, they would probably run editorials supporting similar laws here, and that hasn't happened.

freeedom  posted on  2006-04-08   19:39:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#106. To: freeedom (#105)

To my knowledge, Isreal does not call for the destruction of any or all Arab states, while at the least Palestine and Iran have called for the deaths of Isrealis, and the destruction of Isreal.

With Israel deeds, rather than words is their motto.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2006-04-09   11:36:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#107. To: Jethro Tull (#106)

If Isreal wanted to destroy any countries, they could have. But in 50 years, they haven't.

freeedom  posted on  2006-04-09   21:39:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#108. To: freeedom (#107)

I agree completely. Their destructive ability came courtesy of the US taxpayer, btw. I also believe that no nation in the Middle East has the capability to destroy Israel. So, all their paranoia over hyperbolic political speech is nothing more than theater for the ill informed.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2006-04-09   21:42:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#109. To: Jethro Tull (#108)

I agree completely.

Well then let me remind you of your own words, "Deeds, not words."

Their destructive ability came courtesy of the US taxpayer, btw.

Yes, and that's annoying. Something someone said a long time ago about avoiding "entangling alliances." (And about the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, and something else about legal tender being only gold and silver, and something else about enumerated federal powers, and ...)

I also believe that no nation in the Middle East has the capability to destroy Israel. So, all their paranoia over hyperbolic political speech is nothing more than theater for the ill informed.

Maybe not any one country, but maybe quite easily a collection of them. The attack on Osirk (the nuke plant in Iraq) was brilliantly conceived and executed, and weighs on the question, incidentally. AFAIK, it was attacked when it was supposed to be vacant (on a Sunday afternoon) and before any nuclear material had been moved there, meaning, no contamination. They killed one person, and set Iraq's nuclear capability back years. I think that makes a pretty clear statement about Isreal's priorities, going out of their way to not kill civilians or harm anything else other than nuclear capabilities. Even the US isn't so honorable, consider e.g. the attacks on passenger trains, refugee camps, and maternity hospitals in Belgrade.

freeedom  posted on  2006-04-09   23:38:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#110. To: freeedom (#109)

Excuse me, you Zionist lap dog, but just because Israel hasn’t chosen to destroy its neighbors doesn’t mean it isn’t a vile, wicked country. It is. The list of their atrocities this sandpit has committed upon the weak and ill armed is beyond the scope of my patience at the moment. Suffice to say, they, and their lemming supporters, are a curse to America and the Middle East. If I wake up in the AM, and the dump has disappeared into the sea, the global applause will be deafening.

Stick that up your bagel.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2006-04-09   23:50:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#111. To: Jethro Tull (#110)

Suffice to say, they, and their lemming supporters, are a curse to America and the Middle East.

Please see my undoubtedly incomplete list of Islamic atrocities posted in #64.

Oh yes, and one other thing: Have a nice day.

freeedom  posted on  2006-04-10   10:02:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#112. To: freeedom (#111)

Actually my day is going to suck. I'll be watching the illegals on parade, knowing full well that Morris Dees and his prick-in-arms, Abe Foxman, have given this invasion their blessing.

Oy...

Jethro Tull  posted on  2006-04-10   10:05:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#113. To: Horse (#0)

Apparently there is controversy over whether De Pretto in fact anticipated Einstein's equation: De Pretto come Albert Einstein? " No definitivo" .

aristeides  posted on  2006-04-10   10:54:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#114. To: freeedom (#90)

First, why should I do anything at all about it? It's coming from them, not from me, I'm just the messenger. If anyone needs to study anything, it's the Europeans who told me about it, and not me.

If you were just repeating what you were told, you would not have interjected that nonsense about the Jooooos. Obviously, you have an axe to grind when something doesnot line up with your own point of view. If I told you that you need to study, that is my perception of your comment.

Oh, my, must you whine about it? What I may or may not know about you is irrelevant. Perhaps you should work on your English compostition to get your point across more clearly to avoid these sorts of disagreements.

And as for what I know about world history, I'll put my knowledge up against yours any time and any place. If you purport to know as much as you claim, you would not have made such a silly comment previously; you should, or would have known better.

I've seen enough of you to know a pompous, arrogant blowhard when I see one. And your attempt to belittle me exposes you as being one.

As I said, I'll stack up my knowledge against yours just any time. The only problem with that is your own cognitive dissonance will interfere with any possibility of it being a positive experience. And you will fail to learn, again.

"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue! Sen. Barry Goldwater

BTP Holdings  posted on  2006-04-17   23:29:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#115. To: BTP Holdings (#114)

Stop whining.

freeedom  posted on  2006-04-22   10:12:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#116. To: freeedom (#115)

Stop whining.

Now you are sounding like the BOTS, accusing others of what you yourself are doing. Have a nice life.

"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue! Sen. Barry Goldwater

BTP Holdings  posted on  2006-04-22   14:14:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#117. To: BTP Holdings (#114)

And as for what I know about world history, I'll put my knowledge up against yours any time and any place.

I didn't say I knew more than you did, I said I knew more than you thought I did. (You even quoted me!) Apparently English comprehension isn't your strong point.

I've seen enough of you to know a pompous, arrogant blowhard when I see one.

This is truly an astonishing accusation to make, coming from one who wrote: (in post #74)

I say this with full knowledge of the truth of the matter.

Full knowledge and truth? Of history? (And, therefore, all history, otherwise it wouldn't be full knowledge?) And you have the gall to call me a pompous and arrogant blowhard. Let's see, what was your admonition to me again? Oh, yes, it was this:

"accusing others of what you yourself are doing"

Hypocrite.

freeedom  posted on  2006-04-22   19:10:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#118. To: freeedom (#117)

Aaron on http://www.postliberty.com said you raped your mom.

Thanks for Prohibition and the war against drugs. Thanks for a country where nobody's allowed to mind their own business. Thanks for a nation of finks. Yes, thanks for all the memories-- all right let's see your arms!- William S Burroughs

Dakmar  posted on  2006-04-22   19:19:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#119. To: freeedom (#117)

Bye, bye, BOZO!

"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue! Sen. Barry Goldwater

BTP Holdings  posted on  2006-04-22   23:54:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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