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Resistance
See other Resistance Articles

Title: Will This Pandemic Finally Mark the End of the US Carrier Fleet?
Source: [None]
URL Source: https://www.unz.com/tsaker/will-thi ... e-end-of-the-us-carrier-fleet/
Published: Apr 17, 2020
Author: The Saker
Post Date: 2020-04-17 08:23:54 by Ada
Keywords: None
Views: 2047
Comments: 33

Frankly, I have never considered USN carrier strike groups as a “Cold War capable” element of the US Navy. Yes, in theory, there was the notion of forward deploying these carriers to “bring the war to the Soviets” (on the Kola Peninsula) before they could flush their subs and aircraft through the GUIK gap and into the Atlantic. In theory, it should have been a 600 ship navy too, but that never happened. In reality, of course, US strike groups were the ultimate “colony disciplining” instrument which Uncle Shmuel would park off the coast of a country disobedient to the demands and systematic plundering of the USA. Since most countries in the 20th century could not sink a US carrier or prevail over the comparatively advanced aircraft deployed on them, this was, all in all, a very safe game to play for the USA.

As for “bringing the war to the Soviets”, the truth is that had it ever come to a real war, the US carriers would have been kept far away from the formidable Soviet cruise missile capability (delivered simultaneously by aircraft, surface ships and submarines) for a very simple reason: every time such an attack was modeled a sufficient number of Soviet missiles successfully passed through the protective cordon around the carrier and successfully hit it with devastating results (while sinking a carrier is not that easy, damaging it and making it inoperable does not take that many missile hits).

And that was long before hypersonic missiles like the Kinzhal or the Zircon!

Truly, as an an instrument to deter or defeat the Soviets the USN strike groups were already obsolete in the 1980s, that is long before the the Russians deployed their hypersonic missiles which, as my friend Andrey Martyanov explained in his books (see here and here) and on his blog (see here), basically made the entire US surface fleet obsolete not only to fight Russia, but also to fight any country which possesses such missiles. Such countries already include India and China, but there will be many more soon, probably including Iran!

Today, however, I won’t discuss the missile issue, but what happened recently on the USS Theodore Roosevelt, which you probably know about: her captain got fired for writing a letter (according to his accusers, bypassing the chain of command) asking for help because his crew got infected by the virus. His letter was published by the San Francisco Chronicle and you can read it here.

Interestingly, when the captain, Navy Capt. Brett Crozier, left the ship, his sailors gave him a standing ovation:

Next, Acting Navy Secretary Thomas Modly called Captain Crozier “stupid. That also became public, and he had to apologize and resign (clearly, Modly is not exactly a genius himself!). Then even more of the crew of the carrier got sick, including Crozier himself!

This is what is known in the US military jargon as a “clusterbleep”…

There is, however, also a lot of interesting stuff coming out from this story.

First, the obvious: USN carriers cannot operate effectively under a bio-attack (a truly weaponized virus would both be much more transmissible than SARS-COV-2 and it would be far more deadly). This also indicates that they would probably do no better under a real chemical warfare attack either.

Considering that in reality USN carriers are a instrument of colonial repression and not ships to be engaged against the USSR (which had real biowarfare capabilities), this makes sense (while most university labs & the like could produce some kind of virus and use it as a weapon, truly weaponized viruses, the kind effectively used in special delivery systems, can only be produced by a limited list of countries). However, in theory, all the formations/units/subunits/ships/aircraft/armor/etc of a military superpower should be trained to operate in case of a nuclear, chemical and biological attack. Clearly, this is not the case with US carriers, most likely because nobody in the USA really expected such an attack, at least not during the Cold War.

For the current situation, however, I think that the lesson is clear: the USN simply does not have an effective capability to operate under NBC attack conditions.

By the way, this appears to also be true of the French, whose only carrier has 30% infected sailors!

Second, I agree that going outside the chain of command is wrong, but let’s also consider the following here: the fact that the USS Theodore Roosevelt was having a large number of infected sailors is not something which could have been kept secret anyway, especially while in port. Not only that, but how do we know that Capt. Crozier did not write other memos through the regular chain of command before he wrote the one which became public? After all, any such memos could very easily be classified and never made public.

Finally, I will admit that my sympathies are squarely with the man who placed the lives of his man and women above all else, and not with the bureaucratic drone who put procedures and ruffled feathers above the lives of sailors and called the real officer “stupid” for his actions (wait! a USN carrier captain stupid?! Somehow I don’t think so…..).

At the time of writing (April 14th) there have been 600 sailors from the Theodore Roosevelt who contracted the virus and one death.

Finally, over 4000 sailors have now been evacuated from the ship (1000 are still onboard to operate the nuclear reactor and other key systems).

In other words, the USS Theodore Roosevelt is now completely inoperable!

The quoted CNN article concludes with:

Vice Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. John Hyten told reporters Thursday the US military needed to plan for similar outbreaks in the future as the Defense Department works to cope with the virus’ impacts. “I think it’s not a good idea to think the Teddy Roosevelt is a one-of-a-kind issue. We have too many ships at sea, we have too many deployed capabilities. There’s 5,000 sailors on a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier. To think it will never happen again is not a good way to plan. What we have to do is figure out how to plan in these kind of Covid environments,” Hyten said.

Yet more proof that the USN never took a bioattack threat seriously.

To be honest, it seems that the US Army has similar problems, here is a map of affected US bases I found on Colonel Cassad’s blog:

Click for Full Text!

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#1. To: Ada (#0)

Horseshit

Cynicom  posted on  2020-04-17   8:53:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Cynicom (#1)

You don'think 'USN carriers are a instrument of colonial repression', Cyni? ;)

www.ratic al.org/ratville/CAH/warisaracket.html

_____________________________________________________________

USA! USA! USA! Bringing you democracy, or else! there were strains of VD that were incurable, and they were first found in the Philippines and then transmitted to the Korean working girls via US military. The 'incurables' we were told were first taken back to a military hospital in the Philippines to quietly die. – 4um

NeoconsNailed  posted on  2020-04-17   8:57:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: NeoconsNailed, Cynicom (#2)

Seems that Cyni doesn't believe the USS Roosevelt is completely inoperable.

Ada  posted on  2020-04-17   10:14:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: NeoconsNailed (#2)

'USN carriers are a instrument of colonial repression',

Navy aircraft carriers have always been how the U.S. has extended its power overseas.

They were conveniently at sea when Pearl Harbor was attacked on December 7, 1941.

This was so because the U.S. had broken the Jap Naval Code beforehand and knew the attack was coming.

But they failed to send the warnings by military channels and sent them by standard U.S. Mail. This was done so that FDR could get us into a war with Japan.

I know that sounds like treason, but we must remember the Communist Harry Hopkins was sleeping in the White House. ;)

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2020-04-17   10:32:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: BTP Holdings (#4)

Well gee I guess the WH phone was mysteriously on the blink for that period of time. Or maybe Congress hadn't budgeted enuff for the phone bill?

They just love us so much. They're very caring.

_____________________________________________________________

USA! USA! USA! Bringing you democracy, or else! there were strains of VD that were incurable, and they were first found in the Philippines and then transmitted to the Korean working girls via US military. The 'incurables' we were told were first taken back to a military hospital in the Philippines to quietly die. – 4um

NeoconsNailed  posted on  2020-04-17   11:42:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Ada (#3)

I anticipate his response with bated breath ;)

_____________________________________________________________

USA! USA! USA! Bringing you democracy, or else! there were strains of VD that were incurable, and they were first found in the Philippines and then transmitted to the Korean working girls via US military. The 'incurables' we were told were first taken back to a military hospital in the Philippines to quietly die. – 4um

NeoconsNailed  posted on  2020-04-17   11:44:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: NeoconsNailed (#6)

He would have to read the article first.

Ada  posted on  2020-04-17   12:24:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: NeoconsNailed (#5)

the WH phone was mysteriously on the blink for that period of time.

Communication was very slow in those days. Today we do so with light speed. When things are not instantaneous people get edgy and impatient. ;)

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2020-04-17   12:43:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: BTP Holdings (#8)

Well gee, Russiavelt is entirely innocent then!

_____________________________________________________________

USA! USA! USA! Bringing you democracy, or else! there were strains of VD that were incurable, and they were first found in the Philippines and then transmitted to the Korean working girls via US military. The 'incurables' we were told were first taken back to a military hospital in the Philippines to quietly die. – 4um

NeoconsNailed  posted on  2020-04-17   12:55:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: NeoconsNailed (#9)

Russiavelt is entirely innocent then!

He screwed everyone when the gold standard was abrogated in 1933. Smart people saw thru the scam and kept their gold for their descendants. ;)

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2020-04-17   12:59:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: BTP Holdings (#10)

Well gee, I hope their descendants are working and slaving to buy gold and give it to the USG -- better late than never!

_____________________________________________________________

USA! USA! USA! Bringing you democracy, or else! there were strains of VD that were incurable, and they were first found in the Philippines and then transmitted to the Korean working girls via US military. The 'incurables' we were told were first taken back to a military hospital in the Philippines to quietly die. – 4um

NeoconsNailed  posted on  2020-04-17   13:01:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Ada, Cynicom (#7)

Cyni, we're counting on you!

_____________________________________________________________

USA! USA! USA! Bringing you democracy, or else! there were strains of VD that were incurable, and they were first found in the Philippines and then transmitted to the Korean working girls via US military. The 'incurables' we were told were first taken back to a military hospital in the Philippines to quietly die. – 4um

NeoconsNailed  posted on  2020-04-17   13:02:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: NeoconsNailed (#2)

You don'think 'USN carriers are a instrument of colonial repression', Cyni? ;)

Consider this for an answer.

China is working 24/7 on their third carrier. India is working on their first or second carrier. Think that thru and tell me what you think is going on in a Geo/political world.

Cynicom  posted on  2020-04-17   13:43:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Ada (#3)

Seems that Cyni doesn't believe the USS Roosevelt is completely inoperable.

Total six month 24/7 crew 5000.

Put to sea minimum crew less than 1000, must have operable air crew. In matter of few hours they could put to sea as a fighting force. A better unbiased understanding of such is needed.

Cynicom  posted on  2020-04-17   14:11:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Cynicom (#13)

It sounds like they're a lot saner than us, and not devoting 3/4 of their annual budget to war toys.

_____________________________________________________________

USA! USA! USA! Bringing you democracy, or else! there were strains of VD that were incurable, and they were first found in the Philippines and then transmitted to the Korean working girls via US military. The 'incurables' we were told were first taken back to a military hospital in the Philippines to quietly die. – 4um

NeoconsNailed  posted on  2020-04-17   15:01:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: NeoconsNailed (#15)

It sounds like they're a lot saner than us, and not devoting 3/4 of their annual budget to war toys.

What is the answer? Why are India and China building war toy carriers?

Cynicom  posted on  2020-04-17   15:29:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Cynicom (#16)

Because DC is so endlessly bellicose, vituperative and volatile?

_____________________________________________________________

USA! USA! USA! Bringing you democracy, or else! there were strains of VD that were incurable, and they were first found in the Philippines and then transmitted to the Korean working girls via US military. The 'incurables' we were told were first taken back to a military hospital in the Philippines to quietly die. – 4um

NeoconsNailed  posted on  2020-04-17   15:31:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: NeoconsNailed (#17)

Current world affairs belie such thinking...For instance this plan by Russia TEN YEARS FROM NOW.

we ARE TO THINK AND ACCEPT THAT INDIA, RUSSIA AND CHINA ARE AS MILITARILY STUPID AS THE US???

"""Russia wants to build its first nuclear-powered aircraft carrier, Russian state media reported Tuesday, citing unnamed sources in the shipbuilding industry.

The carrier, a source told TASS, "will have a nuclear energy unit and displacement of about 70,000 [metric tons]," which would make it smaller than US carriers but still larger than Russia's sole aircraft carrier, the steam-powered Admiral Kuznetsov, which suffered a devastating accident last fall.

Last summer, Russian media reported that the Russian navy had begun developing a nuclear propulsion system for a next-generation aircraft carrier. Development on the new carrier is expected to begin in 2023, and the ship could be delivered to the fleet by the late 2030s."""

Think of that Neo, Russia is building for ten years down the road. The US is already there.

WE ALL KNOW THAT CARRIERS ARE WORTHLESS RIGHT?

Cynicom  posted on  2020-04-17   15:46:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: BTP Holdings (#8)

Communication was very slow in those days.

In the case of PH, it was slow by choice. FDR knew at least 1-2 weeks ahead what was coming and had a pretty good idea where. But he was fighting an anti-war American public, so he needed the US to get a bloody nose, good and proper, so the public would overwhelmingly rally behind the war effort.

It worked. Probably much better than he had hoped.

Pinguinite  posted on  2020-04-17   16:01:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Pinguinite (#19)

It worked. Probably much better than he had hoped.

I recall my Mom was in love with a SeaBee. But he got killed in the South Pacific.

Then she met my Dad at a dance hall. She told both of my sisters to never marry someone they meet at a dance hall. :-/

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2020-04-17   16:55:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Cynicom (#18)

What do you EXPECT them to do when DC is doing everything it can to annoy, insult and provoke them?

Only ameriKa is allowed to have big toys, is that it?

_____________________________________________________________

USA! USA! USA! Bringing you democracy, or else! there were strains of VD that were incurable, and they were first found in the Philippines and then transmitted to the Korean working girls via US military. The 'incurables' we were told were first taken back to a military hospital in the Philippines to quietly die. – 4um

NeoconsNailed  posted on  2020-04-17   17:20:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: NeoconsNailed (#21)

What do you EXPECT them to do when DC is doing everything it can to annoy, insult and provoke them?

Only ameriKa is allowed to have big toys, is that it?

""YOU"" does not expect or desire anything.

I am a student of history and geo/politics. Both are reservoirs of knowledge based on reality, what has happened in the past and what is happening now, what is LIKELY to happen in the future..

Carriers and airplanes have been around for nearly one hundred years. Military people WORLDWIDE still use them, I have nothing to do with it, reality is a strict teacher.

Cynicom  posted on  2020-04-17   17:45:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Cynicom (#22)

Have it your way. What should one EXPECT them to do when DC is doing everything it can to annoy, insult and provoke them? We're even encircling them!

Only ameriKa is allowed to have big toys, is that it? I want ANSWERS, Cyni!

_____________________________________________________________

USA! USA! USA! Bringing you democracy, or else! there were strains of VD that were incurable, and they were first found in the Philippines and then transmitted to the Korean working girls via US military. The 'incurables' we were told were first taken back to a military hospital in the Philippines to quietly die. – 4um

NeoconsNailed  posted on  2020-04-17   17:50:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: NeoconsNailed (#23)

Only ameriKa is allowed to have big toys, is that it? I want ANSWERS, Cyni!

History of the past, study of geo/politics provides all the answers if one is willing to study.

Starting point is 1823 when the US stepped out on the world stage with the "Monroe Doctrine". The US has been a world power since and will remain so in the future.

Cynicom  posted on  2020-04-17   18:16:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Cynicom (#24)

So we're a world power and we have to have constant games of chicken with the others?

_____________________________________________________________

USA! USA! USA! Bringing you democracy, or else! there were strains of VD that were incurable, and they were first found in the Philippines and then transmitted to the Korean working girls via US military. The 'incurables' we were told were first taken back to a military hospital in the Philippines to quietly die. – 4um

NeoconsNailed  posted on  2020-04-17   18:21:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: NeoconsNailed (#25)

we have to have constant games of chicken

Right now B-52s are flying the Polar Route and are armed with nuclear tipped Cruise Missiles. They are playing a game of chicken with Russia. ;)

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2020-04-17   18:33:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Cynicom (#14)

In matter of few hours they could put to sea as a fighting force.

The U.S. Navy?

Without putting into port?

Ada  posted on  2020-04-17   18:34:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: BTP Holdings (#26)

We're just groovy.

_____________________________________________________________

USA! USA! USA! Bringing you democracy, or else! there were strains of VD that were incurable, and they were first found in the Philippines and then transmitted to the Korean working girls via US military. The 'incurables' we were told were first taken back to a military hospital in the Philippines to quietly die. – 4um

NeoconsNailed  posted on  2020-04-17   18:39:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: NeoconsNailed (#25)

So we're a world power and we have to have constant games of chicken with the others?

A good history professor would not state it that way, but basically that is correct.

Teddy Roosevelt (carrier) long ago said, "walk softly and carry a big stick". Recall that from history??? Well the Teddy Roosevelt carrier is the big stick. By the way, at about the same time. Teddy warned that Japan would be moving South. Twenty two years later the Japanese built the worlds first aircraft carrier.

Cynicom  posted on  2020-04-17   18:40:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: Cynicom (#29)

TR is the one that set us on this hellish road with the fraudulent Spanish-American War!

Really, Cyni -- you're 96 and you don't know bovine excrement when you smell it?

_____________________________________________________________

USA! USA! USA! Bringing you democracy, or else! there were strains of VD that were incurable, and they were first found in the Philippines and then transmitted to the Korean working girls via US military. The 'incurables' we were told were first taken back to a military hospital in the Philippines to quietly die. – 4um

NeoconsNailed  posted on  2020-04-17   18:48:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: NeoconsNailed (#30)

Really, Cyni -- you're 96 and you don't know bovine excrement when you smell it?

Teddy, Gen. Billy Mitchell and Col. Patton all warned that Japan was coming. They were ignored. They came with largest carrier fleet in the world.

Cynicom  posted on  2020-04-17   19:46:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Cynicom (#24)

Starting point is 1823 when the US stepped out on the world stage with the "Monroe Doctrine". The US has been a world power since and will remain so in the future.

wow! that is cool your dementia is rampant.


I used to be in a hurry, then I figured out I was just getting nowhere fast.

IRTorqued  posted on  2020-04-17   21:02:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: IRTorqued (#32)

wow! that is cool your dementia is rampant.

I prefer civil, intelligent, informed discourse. Personal attacks are a reflection of the character and the integrity of those that add NOTHING to a worthwhile conversation.

Cynicom  posted on  2020-04-17   21:30:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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