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Title: A Warning for Americans: A Message from a South African
Source: sierratimes.com
URL Source: http://www.sierratimes.com/archive/ ... ticles/2001/mar/arrn031201.htm
Published: Apr 10, 2006
Author: Self
Post Date: 2006-04-10 07:00:52 by robnoel
Keywords: None
Views: 975
Comments: 83

People used to say that South Africa was 20 years behind the rest of the Western world. Television, for example, came late to South Africa (but so did pornography and the gay* rights movement).

Today, however, South Africa may be the grim model of the future Western world, for events in America reveals trends chillingly similar to those that destroyed our country.

America's structures are Western. Your Congress, your lobbying groups, your free speech, and the way ordinary Americans either get involved or ignore politics are peculiarly Western, not the way most of the world operates. But the fact that only about a third of Americans deem it important to vote is horrifying in light of how close you are to losing your Western character.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 76.

#8. To: robnoel (#0)

LOL!

The end of the Apartheid state is one of the better things that happened to South Afrika.

If they don't like it, they can always go back to Europe.

Fuck this colonial racialist nostalgic windbag.

If South Africa really turned bad, it'd be Zimbabwe.

swarthyguy  posted on  2006-04-10   16:16:40 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: swarthyguy, robnoel (#8)

If they don't like it, they can always go back to Europe.

That comment just shows your stupidity.

The same thing could be said to us, here in North America.

Flintlock  posted on  2006-04-10   16:24:22 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Flintlock (#10)

Figgers it went right over your head.

swarthyguy  posted on  2006-04-10   16:26:02 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: swarthyguy (#12)

Figgers it went right over your head.

How so?

How is your position any different than the "reconquesta" types who want North America back?

Flintlock  posted on  2006-04-10   16:42:45 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Flintlock (#14)

Because no one's leaving. Either here or in SA. In SA whites were a dominant minority. If they hadn't cut a deal with the Blacks 90% of the population, they would've been force to fight or flee.

And diverting this thread from SA to Reconquista is silly.

After all, all the Mexicans here are speaking another European language, Spanish. So, it's like a family brawl here.

And Mexicans aren't a economically dominant minority, like whites in SA.

Silly analogies.

swarthyguy  posted on  2006-04-10   16:47:09 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: swarthyguy (#15)

And diverting this thread from SA to Reconquista is silly.

Not at all, it's the same thing.

After all, all the Mexicans here are speaking another European language, Spanish. So, it's like a family brawl here.

What does that have to do with anything?

BTW What's your position on "amnesty" for wetbacks?

Flintlock  posted on  2006-04-10   16:52:15 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Flintlock (#18)

I want them all in ASAP with no English requirement.

After all, if it's good for Marriotts and meatpackers I'm AOK with it.

After all, we've been letting them in for a long time now.

Learn Spanish, cracker.

Your daughters will.

swarthyguy  posted on  2006-04-10   16:53:49 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: swarthyguy (#19)

Learn Spanish, cracker.

I already have, how about you?

Flintlock  posted on  2006-04-10   16:57:29 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Flintlock (#21)

Me learn Spanish?. Hell, no. Why? The guys from Tipico's Puerto Rican BBQ place understand English just fine.

swarthyguy  posted on  2006-04-10   17:01:38 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: swarthyguy (#23)

I host a daily two hour show on RBN...I invite you to debate me live on the air your call!...here is the call in # (800) 313-9443...I don't screen calls so feel free anytime you get the courage to call is fine by me.

PS..I'm a Rhodesian was not born in Europe..a real African American if you will

robnoel  posted on  2006-04-10   22:07:32 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: robnoel (#47)

a real African American

LOL! The same as Teresa Kerry. Good for you.

Save me your nostalgia for the ole days. They're gone.

Now deal with reality instead of pining for the fjords!

You don't live in SA nor are you a SouthAfrican; you're supposedly an American now; so deal with stuff here, instead of the lost homeland.

It's gone. If you don't like what happened there, well, you had options. You bugged out.

Let the South Africans deal with their own country.

swarthyguy  posted on  2006-04-11   15:24:53 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: swarthyguy (#57)

Save me your nostalgia for the ole days. They're gone.

Same could be said for the "Republic for which it stands"

robnoel  posted on  2006-04-11   22:44:43 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: robnoel, aristeides, Fred_mertz (#59)

OK, but the central theme of America today is nostalgia.

That's funny, because America has lost its "innoncence" more often than a Saudi princess who has had her hymen restored many times in the clinics of Geneva and Switzerland.

Between wiping out the Indians, the Texas Annexation, the Obscenity of Slavery, World War One (The Lusitania, the Zimmerman telegram), Smedley Butler, the Charge on the Washington Mall against the WorldWarOne Veterans, World War 2 (Pearl Harbor), indiscrimate use of Napalm in Korea, McCarthy, overthrowing elected leaders across the world in the 50's including Iran, one that's biting back now BIGTIME, JFK, RFK, MLK, Salting the Sands of Araby with DU, Starving Iraqi children and denying them medication in the 90's, etc etc, where the hell was the damn innocence anyway.

The concept of the American state of innocence is a carefully contrived exercise in wilful ignorance.

The Republic is as it ever was. In a state of flux.

When less than 50% of Americans vote and apathy is paramount, the blame is not in some external boogeymen, but right in the heart of our Republic.

It's not an AutoPilot enterprise, the Republic, it demands citizen participation.

And the immigrants marching in large numbers has shown that they at least understand the power of Direct Action, have acted on it, and if there is no significant backlash will succeed in achieving their goals.

Instead of bitching about them, perhaps we could think of some issue where similar numbers of Americans get worked up enough to do something - Prime Example - the MinuteMen on the Rio Grande and Arizona.

swarthyguy  posted on  2006-04-12   14:13:39 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: swarthyguy (#61)

Based on your above...you did not read my post...here is a example

It is already too late for South Africa, but not for America if enough people strengthen their spine and take on the race terrorists, the armies of the "politically correct" and, most dangerous of all, the craven politicians who believe "compassionate conservatism" will buy them a few more votes, a few more days of peace.

White South Africans, you should remember, have been in that part of Africa for the same amount of time whites have inhabited North America; yet ultimately South Africans voted for their own suicide. We are not so very different from you.

We lost our country through skillful propaganda, pressure from abroad (not least from the U.S.A.), unrelenting charges of "oppression" and "racism," and the shrewd assessment by African tyrants that the white man has many Achilles' heels, the most significant of which are his compassion, his belief in the "equality of man," and his "love your neighbor" philosophy -- none of which are part of the Third World's history.

robnoel  posted on  2006-04-12   16:00:10 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: robnoel (#62)

We lost our country

Your assumptions are erroneous. You did not "lose" your country. SA still exists, albeit in a form that you don't like.

Any state that relies on putting down 90% of its citizens is at best, like SA, a long term anomaly. What is amazing is that such a system lasted for so long, supported by the US. When the US woke up to the inherent obscenity of such a system, the system fell.

Now, all the people of SA are in it together. That's far better than a Lording Privileged Ruling Class based on skin color.

swarthyguy  posted on  2006-04-12   16:11:33 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: swarthyguy (#63)

Your assumptions are erroneous. You did not "lose" your country. SA still exists, albeit in a form that you don't like.

Any state that relies on putting down 90% of its citizens is at best, like SA, a long term anomaly. What is amazing is that such a system lasted for so long, supported by the US. When the US woke up to the inherent obscenity of such a system, the system fell.

Now, all the people of SA are in it together. That's far better than a Lording Privileged Ruling Class based on skin color.

Hmmm.. have you read anything about Abramoff's involvement in SA and some of what took place?? and what is now taking place there?? The people of SA arent in it all together at all.. look to SA and you'll see our future.

Zipporah  posted on  2006-04-12   16:15:06 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: Zipporah (#64)

Israel and South Africa have had an extremely close relationship, particularly when Apartheid ruled.

SA was considered a bulwark against Communism, and it's internal policies were tolerated by the West, including Israel.

I don't know what Jack did in SA but it's irrelevant. He had fingers in a lot of pies.

swarthyguy  posted on  2006-04-12   16:21:16 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: swarthyguy (#65)

I don't know what Jack did in SA but it's irrelevant. He had fingers in a lot of pies.

I'm not saying that the prior regime was without fault.. think of a parallel with the situation here in the US.. the leadership was corrupt as you mentioned BUT think again the US and what we're facing.. now.. the protests etc.. the INC is and are communists.. what we're witnessing worldwide is a revolution.. but not of the people.. manipulated and orchestrated And on Abramoff not exactly irrelevant..

From Democracy Now..

"And what does Jack Abramoff have to do with South Africa? In the 1980s, he was head of the pro-apartheid International Freedom Foundation in Washington.

Jack Abramoff. In 1989, Abramoff produced the film Red Scorpion. It was filmed in South African-occupied Namibia, with the cooperation of the notorious apartheid regime. But before that, Abramoff helped launch the pro-apartheid International Freedom Foundation in the mid-1980s. The IFF was promoted as an independent think tank, but it was actually part of an elaborate South African military intelligence operation set up to combat sanctions and undermine Nelson Mandela's African National Congress. While Abramoff headed the IFF in Washington, in South Africa it was run in part by Craig Williamson, a notorious military intelligence officer known for carrying out a series of bombings and assassinations. I asked Allister Sparks to talk about Craig Williamson's record.

ALLISTER SPARKS: Oh, Craig Williamson was one of our more odious intelligence spies. Intelligence? Well, I suppose, it's the right word. He was quite smart the way he went about things. He, first of all, infiltrated student organizations. He went abroad. He operated out of Geneva for a time, working in international students in that field, shopping many of his colleagues. They didn't know. They thought he was a good guy. And, you know, part of the student movement, which was opposed to apartheid, he embedded himself very successfully there.

But then, later, his activities became increasingly horrendous. I mean, he took to planting or sending letter bombs to various people. He was responsible for killing one of the leading white opposition figures, Ruth First, who was married to Joe Slovo. They were both communists, and I suppose it was deemed that that made them fair game. And she was blown up in her office at the University in Maputo. She was killed.

He was also involved in the killing of the family of an Afrikaner, a white Afrikaner dissident named Marius Schoon, whose -- a letter bomb killed his wife, his daughter, and injured a two-year-old boy who was left floundering around in this devastated home for two days before anyone found him. Yeah, that's the record of Craig Williamson.

He also was involved in an organization called Stratcom, which was Strategic Communications, which involved planting smear letters of anti-apartheid activists, or smear stories. Again, there were gullible journalists, or some of them were plants and colleagues of his. And he and his organization succeeded in getting stories published, which discredited, you know, really good brave activists and anybody who was perceived to be anti-government or was in their way or who needed to be discredited. You know, that's his career. That's his record. And you're telling me that Mr. Abramoff was a colleague, was involved with him. "

Zipporah  posted on  2006-04-12   16:28:08 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#72. To: Zipporah (#68)

So Abramoff supported Apartheid. Or did he? So what? Listen, there is no way you or anyone is going to convince me that Apartheid, a system as morally putrid and utterly devoid of humanity as Mao's genocidal communism was something to be admired. Kinda like the Russians waxing nostalgic for Uncle Joe. Or the Khmer for PolPot. It deserved to go.

swarthyguy  posted on  2006-04-12   16:38:34 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#76. To: swarthyguy (#72)

So Abramoff supported Apartheid. Or did he? So what? Listen, there is no way you or anyone is going to convince me that Apartheid, a system as morally putrid and utterly devoid of humanity as Mao's genocidal communism was something to be admired. Kinda like the Russians waxing nostalgic for Uncle Joe. Or the Khmer for PolPot. It deserved to go.

I guess you didnt read all of my reply to you..

Zipporah  posted on  2006-04-12   16:57:52 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


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