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Title: Gulching - Any Experience Here?
Source:
Lonsome Self
URL Source: http://None
Published: Apr 23, 2006
Author: ...
Post Date: 2006-04-23 00:31:48 by ...
Keywords: None
Views: 2422
Comments: 67
I am playing with the idea of surviving with very little money. The way my dad did back in the great depression. We've put in 100 tomato plants and are planning to can spaghetti sauce and a form of vedgitarian chili for the winter. I've also got a buch of peppers going in and several varieties of squash. The squash will keep through the winter. A woman down the road raises chickens and she was giving me tips on setting this up. It seems like an amazing amount of work. Buried fences faced with sheet metal to keep out foxes and coyotes. She said she lost 20 of her 50 free range hens to foxes last year in broad daylight. I was going to start with ten chickens just to get the feel of it, but I might shine this one. Still thinking it over. One problem is that is sometimes gets to 50 below here in the winter and this makes even more problems for livestock. She was telling me how a thick paste of chicken shit and sawdust on the floor helps keep the coop warm - bleeech. Last year I tried out some fish traps in the rivers and they worked great. Illegal as hell, but really effective. Anybody got any other ideas on crops? I am looking for things that grow and produce all summer and, hopefully, could be sold at a produce stand. Corn and wheat take too much land. Truck farming stuff seems best.
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#1. To: ... (#0)
gross. i'm a spoiled rotten suburbanite so i have no advice. :P
"Of the corporate elites, by the corporate elites, for the corporate elites" - it's what America is all about. Now send your kids off to fight and die in Iraq so that corporate pigs get everything and we get nothing. What else have we ever fought for?~~Elliott J
What is truck farming?
Blackberries. Cantaloupe.
She was telling me how a thick paste of chicken shit and sawdust on the floor helps keep the coop warm - bleeech.
#2. To: ... (#0)
Truck farming stuff seems best.
#3. To: ... (#0)
Anybody got any other ideas on crops?
#4. To: ... (#0)
..and maybe some hemp to go along w/ the fruit. Makes good tobacco substitute ;-)
#5. To: IndieTX (#3)
Blackberries are a good idea. Miserable to pick, but the vines survive forever like grapes from what I remember. The can both be sold and canned as jam. I don't know about catelope. We were going to do watermelons but the problem is that take up a lot of space and give you a lot of hard to preserve fruit at once.
Blackberries.
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#6. To: Esso (#2)
High labor, high value crops. Things like beans, peppers, melons, tomatos. asparagus, etc. As opposed to corn, wheat, milo, or other things that take big fields and machines to harvest. Asparagus might be good, but it takes serveral years for the patch to become productive. Sort of like planting an orchard. But once it is going, and there is water, you can go harvest it every week or so.
What is truck farming?
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#7. To: ... (#0)
Forget raising chickens for eggs and the freezer.....if the thought of 'poop' bothers you. Oftentimes raising baby chicks or any other fowl, for that matter, their little butts can get 'poop' smeared on where it dries. IF it is not removed, i.e., wetting the rear end and then using your finger to pick it off, the chick dies because they become bound up. OTOH, there is nothing like raising your own eggs and 'fried chicken'. YOU determine what they eat. And homegrown chicken egg yolks are a GOLDEN YELLOW--the real deal--not a puny yellow as so many stores have. I sold eggs and raw milk and covered the costs of feeding my chickens and cow, so it was like free for my family. All livestock production has its ups and downs. BUT of the thought of As to the 50 below and chickens.........I raised 24 hens and a rooster in a non- insulated chicken house. I kept the floor and nesting boxes strawed down in winter. I also had one end of the house made of raised 'roosting' tiers....I used chicken wire to cover these roosing areas so that nothing like a weasel or fox or skunk could grab chickens if they managed to get up through the floor. This was in western Montana; and the first winter there, we had 120 inches of snow from 10/31 thru 2/29 drop. And January was one of the coldest months-- incredibly windy, making the wind chill factor a real element in producing below zero weather for several weeks. The rooster's comb got partially frostbit. None died......and of the 24 hens, I was getting 22 to 24 eggs a day thru that whole winter! The real bitch was having to haul warm water out there 2x a day and collecting eggs, else they'd freeze and crack. All livestock do much better thru winter if they have water that isn't ice. It doesn't have to be as warm as tap water, but several degrees above freezing encourages them to drink more.........and water is vital to all of them.
'poop' shit bothers you, fuggit bout it. Rabbits are a quick turn around--if you're prepared to sex them and keep them separated--otherwise you have a zillion babies. And your market gets saturated. But with them, if you couldn't stand the squeal of them being slaughtered, fuggit bout it, too.
#8. To: ... (#6)
Hmmmmmm, thanks for the info. I guess I'm a truck farmer & didn't even know it. I grow 'maters, jalapenos, habaneros, cukes, & whatever tickles my fancy in my garden, just as a learning experience, if nothing else. I've gotten pretty good at it. I've also got mulberries, wild grapes, crab apples & a winter pear tree. It'd be tough to live on though.
#9. To: ... (#0)
As to crops to grow, if you get 50 below in winter, I daresay you live in an area of the country or world that has a rather short growing season. You would have to check the area for that because it impacts what could be grown. Also, things like flowers are good at farmers markets......but again growiing season and growing zones are probably the biggest factors there. You could build a greenhouse, I would suspect, though it is quesitonable if you could raise enough to 'make a decent income supplement' from it. And the great thing is to find a MARKET.........or should I say marketing. For instance, back in the 70s, my grandfather had a 5 acre piece of land, and not all was used for gardening by any stretch. But he found a tomator that was really good, colorwise, texture, juiciness, size, etc., and made contact with a casino in Reno. He would drive over there weekly and sell them all his tomatoes. HE did NOT live in climates where it gets 50 below. He staggered his plants so that he could produce tomatoes longer than the normal season. He did quite well with this from a financial standpoint. He certainly made a lot more this way than trying to sell to locals or farmers markets.
#10. To: rowdee (#9)
I'd raise chickens for real if I needed them, but I don't know if I want to do it for fun. I've been around them before and they are nasty. Viable commercial operations are beyond belief. My dad wouldn't even eat eggs. I am located along a busy two lane highway up to the ski, fishing and hiking areas. Lots of traffic in the summer. I was thinking about putting up a stand to sell some of the produce. Probably bring in some other stuff as well. Shelled almonds from Texas is one thing. Maybe bring in some watermelons and cantelope from out on the plains. Just learned that our tomatos don't qualify as "organic" even if we never use spray on them. The seedlings weren't certified organic so we can't call the fruit that. Oh well. The idea is that you have an operation going that lets you eat and maybe makes a little money to carry itself. If things ever get really tough, you can come here and live an uncomplicated life. I'm not really afraid of "poop". The guy next door is dumping a big load from his feed lot in our driveway tomorrow. Said he was glad to get rid of it. I will put it on the plants. The cheapest sheep shit I could find was $3.99 for a 50 lb bag. That makes about $500.00 to cover the garden. Will use the neighbors free bull and horse shit instead.
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#11. To: christine (#1)
wow, I knew there were folks like me.
gross. i'm a spoiled rotten suburbanite so i have no advice. :P
#12. To: ... (#0)
You might want to look around here.
#13. To: rowdee (#7)
I've been toying with the idea of getting a chicken coop to raise eggs for myself. There are a few people around here who do it, even though it can get to 30 below and we get a lot of snow in the winter. I have been buying them fresh from local people, but a lot of them have been having problems with their chickens not laying lately. It doesn't sound easy!
Forget raising chickens for eggs and the freezer.....if the thought of 'poop' bothers you. Oftentimes raising baby chicks or any other fowl, for that matter, their little butts can get 'poop' smeared on where it dries.
#14. To: Dakmar, christine (#11)
wow, I knew there were folks like me. Dak you have no idea, in this instance she is the grand master of understatment. Think of a Princess that can shoot straight.
gross. i'm a spoiled rotten suburbanite so i have no advice. :P
“Of all the enemies to public liberty war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes...known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few…No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare.” – James Madison, Political Observations, 1795
#15. To: rowdee (#7)
That's an amazing output.
and of the 24 hens, I was getting 22 to 24 eggs a day thru that whole winter!
#16. To: Diana (#13)
No chicken will lay every day, all year. If I recall correctly, an egg a day for about a third of the year is a reasonable goal. Different breeds vary. The conventional wisdom is to keep your brood such that some are on one cycle and some on another. You have to determine this empirically, though I think you can just go by when they were hatched. Then, keep a rooster in a seperate but close run, because his presence will stimulate the hens to lay. But don't let him in the same run(or even against the same stretch of fence), because fertilized eggs will stop them from laying. The idea is that, at any given time, about a third to a half of your chickens are laying, and you will have a fairly stable supply of eggs year-round. If you just go buy some biddies and put 'em in a coop, you will usually wind up with them all on the same cycle. Disclaimer: that was all pulled from my childhood memories, so there could be errors there.
having problems with their chickens not laying lately
#17. To: Hmmmmm, Dakmar (#14)
Think of a Princess that can shoot straight. bruce knows. :P
Dak you have no idea, in this instance she is the grand master of understatment.
"Of the corporate elites, by the corporate elites, for the corporate elites" - it's what America is all about. Now send your kids off to fight and die in Iraq so that corporate pigs get everything and we get nothing. What else have we ever fought for?~~Elliott J
#18. To: ... (#0)
Excellent idea that I highly recommend. I live in the city myself, but I've been growing herbs and am looking to do container gardening (gardening in pots), to grow tomatoes, peppers, etc. I'm sure it won't be enough to keep me going completely but it can supplement a diet. I'm trying to focus on anything that can be canned or pickled. I think it's wise to re-learn how to grow our own food, take care of livestock if we can, and learn how to do extended first aid and use old fashioned home remedies for many ailments. We've become too dependent on a broken system.
"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."
#19. To: rowdee (#7)
Is this common, Dee? It makes me wonder how they live in the wild or whatever, without domestication. They wouldn't have humans around to wipe their butts. Would a lot of chicks die because of this? Man, that would truly be a sad...end. Sorry, couldn't help it :) Also, makes me think of what dogs and cats did before canned food. They say now that cats will go blind without regular commercial cat food because it's got some ingredient in it they need - taurine? So how they hell did they manage not to go blind before that point?
IF it is not removed, i.e., wetting the rear end and then using your finger to pick it off, the chick dies because they become bound up.
"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."
#20. To: ... (#0)
This is one of my favorite topics. 50 below zero? Do you have a greenhouse, or are you in a position to add a small sunroom to your home? If so, you can use an earth box to help extend your growing season. I use these in short-season New England, and these things produce AMAZING amounts of vegetables...click on the link and read up. They run about $30 a piece, so many 'thrifty' types build their own out of those 18-gallon Rubbermaid tubs you see at China...er, I mean Wal-Mart. I have a relative making some more for me, and I just might buy another dozen just for the hell of it. We use them for tomatoes and hot peppers, because my wife makes a bitchin' hot salsa. To extend the season, we put them on our enclosed porch in October, and kept picking fresh veggies for another month or so, until the plants just 'wore out'. Make sure you are using non-hybrid seeds, so you can save them for the following garden season. Two GREAT sources are heirloom seeds and seed savers . Geri Guidetti's Ark Institute has a smaller seed selection, but her site is packed with lots of info on gardening, along with info on water and bird flu. Personally; I don't buy into a lot of this 'bird flu' stuff, but I don't believe in throwing the baby out with the bath water, either. I've used her seeds in the past, and they 'save' very well. Hope this helps.
#21. To: Diana (#13)
The key is to learn what is needed. As bikinis are probably not everyday wear in Alaska for a reason, so would raising chickens. However, just as with bikini wearers who have learned the 'hows and whens' of wearing them make the necessary adaptations, so too would chicken growers--or any other livestock. There are rewards--I enjoyed raising the critters a lot--though when it was time to kill, clean, and freeze before EATING was not 'fun'. I raised a large breed of chicken--they were hearty, and when the laying days were over, they were great in a pot for chicken soup. There are breeds specifically for egg laying, but their lives are short-lived; and they're generally scrawny looking critters. I raised Buff Orphingtons which have a rather gentle demeanor whereas some of the egg specifics are flighty nervous wrecks. Chickens go through a moult period when they lose feathers and generally don't lay eggs in that period. This was not very noticeable with the Buffs. If you're just wanting eggs, you don't need a rooster to fertilize them. I would imagine in Alaska, a coop or house would require a heat lamp to burn in the cold months. We planned to run electric to the chicken house, but ran out of time that first winter, and after seeing how well they did, we decided we didn't need to take electricity to there.
#22. To: mehitable (#18)
Ma'am...your situation is tailor-made for an Earth Box or three...check the link in #20. These would be GREAT to use where you are located.
#23. To: who knows what evil (#22)
Thanks, that's a really great idea!
"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."
#24. To: mehitable, ... (#22)
Disclaimer: I do NOT work for Earth Box...they are just the best thing I have ever seen for 'container gardening'...bar none. The pictures at their site do NOT exaggerate...my pepper plants were SIX FEET TALL!
#25. To: ... (#10)
Do you make a 'tea' out of the sheep shit? I used to have people come to the ranch with 5 gallon buckets to scoop up sheep shit. They would take it home and soak it in water.........and then put the 'tea' on their garden and flowers....they swore by it. I never tried it myself. I do know that because of the pellets rather than piles their manure is spread naturally over pastures and with rain or irrigation, you get excellent pasture growth. :)
#26. To: ... (#0)
Alas I have no practical experience, but I used to read "Mother Earth News" in hopes that one day I would. It's still around. Good luck!
“I don't think we have to worry about Rumsfeld, he's a ruthless little bastard isn't he ?"
- Richard Nixon excerpt white house tapes.
#27. To: Diana (#13)
Try putting the chicken in a vice and tightening it. Not too much though or you will break the egg.
I have been buying them fresh from local people, but a lot of them have been having problems with their chickens not laying lately.
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#28. To: who knows what evil (#20)
how do you think asparagus would do in one of these?
"Of the corporate elites, by the corporate elites, for the corporate elites" - it's what America is all about. Now send your kids off to fight and die in Iraq so that corporate pigs get everything and we get nothing. What else have we ever fought for?~~Elliott J
#29. To: who knows what evil (#24)
shoot..i don't see asparagus on either of those sites.
"Of the corporate elites, by the corporate elites, for the corporate elites" - it's what America is all about. Now send your kids off to fight and die in Iraq so that corporate pigs get everything and we get nothing. What else have we ever fought for?~~Elliott J
#30. To: Rabble Rouser (#15)
Yes, it was fantastic. Went against most of what I read in the raising poultry books/booklets. I believe much of what happens with our critters is based on how they're treated, i.e., nutritionally, and habitat-wise. My girls were wellfed; raised from day old chicks; were allowed to run free in the daytime so long as they didn't come to my yard area. I know that when I was trying to cut back, i.e., not get more/raise more, I was selling 8 year old hens as stewing hens! And they were dressing out at 8 to 10 lbs. I raised Buff Orphingtons, and they had a mellow temprament, not flighty. In fact my youngest daughter started Rooster Cogburn out when he was a chick sitting in her hand--like a falcon. He musta weighed around 20 lbs when he was mature--we refused to let him sit on our hands by then. But it wasn't just the chickens where we tried for the best, most practical, safest production. Our cattle and our sheep did well, as did the Angora Goats. Oh yeah........even our kitties!
#31. To: christine (#28)
They appear to be re-designing their website, as their 'planting schematic' is not on there at the moment, nor are all the pictures of the giant plants these things produce. But I did find one of my schematics from a few years back, and asparagus is NOT one of the plants listed. I imagine that is because that particular veggie requires an established bed, and that is not what the box is designed for. That doesn't mean you can't...drop them an e-mail, and ask. (Shame, because my wife makes a 'Roasted Asparagus' that I could eat seven days a week. Simple, but tasty.)
#32. To: who knows what evil (#20)
I want to build a hot house for the seedlings. This would save a lot of money. The shoots are costing me over a dollar apiece. The big, semi-mature ones are five dollars. I am going to build it low using a box of 4 x 4's covered with glass from old sliding doors I can scrounge. We are at a high altitude and the wind routinely gusts to 80 mph so a wood frame covered with clear plastic is a joke. The wind ripped the shingles off one side of the house last week. We do have a short growing season. We still have to carry all the plants into the shed at night as it still freezes. Can't take them out of the pots and put them in the ground for three more weeks or so.
Do you have a greenhouse, or are you in a position to add a small sunroom to your home?
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#33. To: christine, mehitable, zipporah, ... (#29)
Enough about Earth Boxes for a minute...'Lodwick' got me turned on to RBN several months ago, and I heard a show promoting sonic bloom a few weeks back. Wonder what kind of 'man-eaters' I could produce if I combined this system with a few Earth Boxes? Anybody have any experience with Sonic Bloom?
#34. To: who knows what evil (#31)
It takes several years to get an asparagus bed going. I guess the root system has to really develope. Recall that full grown asparagus is more like a tree than the shoots you eat. I think you allow the tree like root structure to develop first. This gives it the energy to push up shoots once a week or so.
But I did find one of my schematics from a few years back, and asparagus is NOT one of the plants listed.
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#35. To: ... (#32)
You aren't growing from seed, are you?
The shoots are costing me over a dollar apiece. The big, semi-mature ones are five dollars.
#36. To: who knows what evil (#31)
yum! can you post the recipe? i steam mine, then saute in a little butter, then sprinkle liberally with shredded imported romano cheese. delicious.
roasted asparagus
"Of the corporate elites, by the corporate elites, for the corporate elites" - it's what America is all about. Now send your kids off to fight and die in Iraq so that corporate pigs get everything and we get nothing. What else have we ever fought for?~~Elliott J
#37. To: ..., Zipporah (#34)
Zip's got asparagus in her yard.
"Of the corporate elites, by the corporate elites, for the corporate elites" - it's what America is all about. Now send your kids off to fight and die in Iraq so that corporate pigs get everything and we get nothing. What else have we ever fought for?~~Elliott J
#38. To: christine (#37)
Must be nice.
Zip's got asparagus in her yard.
#39. To: christine (#36)
Very similar to what you are doing...1.5 pounds of asparagus, 1 tablespoon olive oil, 1/4 cup grated Parmesan cheese. Preheat over to 450. Wash asparagus and cut off ends (opposite end from tips). Coat baking dish with cooking spray. Place asparagus in baking dish, drizzle with olive oil, and sprinkle with parmesan cheese. Bake 15 minutes. Simple, but tasty as hell.
yum! can you post the recipe? i steam mine, then saute in a little butter, then sprinkle liberally with shredded imported romano cheese. delicious.
#40. To: who knows what evil (#39)
thanks!
"Of the corporate elites, by the corporate elites, for the corporate elites" - it's what America is all about. Now send your kids off to fight and die in Iraq so that corporate pigs get everything and we get nothing. What else have we ever fought for?~~Elliott J
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