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Religion See other Religion Articles Title: [LWAN]: A Pagan Responds "Scott" wrote in with a very interesting email responding to my recent mailings that had a strong christian emphasis, asking about the strong christian theme present in much of the patriot movement. The above subject line was his own. I really appreciate his email. It's not hard to find people who disagree, but finding people who disagree on constructive terms is much more rare. Scott's observations are not new. My response follows. ---- Dear cjmciver: I have been following your posts for perhaps a little less than a year. The most recent ones confirm something I've noticed about the Patriot or Tax Honesty or Freedom Movements: most of the people involved are Christian. I have read some income tax legality things on the internet where the author is not only Christian but condemns certain people he or she refers to as "pagans" or "heathens", and there has been some blame and equating pagans with people in government who are trying to infringe upon people's liberties and rights. At best, the sense that I get is the Patriot movement is only for Christians (or maybe Jews as well). Of course you must be aware that there is a pagan movement here in the United States and in Europe as well. So my question is, do you think a pagan has the same rights as Christians? Could a pagan object to identifying himself with a social security number? Could a pagan even validly object on religious grounds and use the religious freedom and exemption legislation as a Christian does? Or is this not an option for a pagan or just anyone who doesn't follow the Bible? The reason I'm writing this is because I am a pagan (more specifically, I refer to myself as a "heathen" in the original sense of that term, someone who in the Germanic and Scandinavian countries still held on to worshipping the old gods during the advent of Christianity in Europe.) I believe in the traditions of liberty, private property, and god-given rights, and a free market with little or no government interference, living life without an identification number and getting government permission for every little thing, etc. In other words all of the things that people in the Patriot movement value. I am concerned with all of these issues. I do not advocate a One World Religion, I eschew socialism, and I believe in the importance of spiritual instruction which teaches that man's ultimate responsibility is to the gods (i.e. the divine), and not the State. I don't insist that others believe as I do; most of the time I shy away from even talking about it. However, I cannot and have never been able to relate at all to Christianity, most of what is in the Bible, or the Judeo-Christian god generally. I have gone all the way back to the beliefs, practices, and spiritual outlook of my ancestors before they were made to accept Christianity. Does this mean that I don't have rights, or I have to use the social security number, because since I don't embrace the bible I can't object to it on the grounds of it being the "mark of the beast"? I am not attempting to make an attack here. This is an issue which has been on my mind for some time, and I am trying to open up a dialog with someone in this movement about it. Note that I do not intend to convert to Christianity--I have found my spiritual path. I also do not intend to give up exercising and defending my rights, which I believe extend as far as the boundaries of anyone else's rights and liberties. I know you can't speak for all Christians or people who follow the Bible, but I would be interested in hearing your thoughts. ------ I certainly agree that a great many people who end up in the tax honesty /patriot movement profess christianity on a very basic and devout level. That's been my observation and I've had conversations about that going back 8 years or more. My best guess is that getting involved in the patriot movement generally doesn't pay rewards that appeal to people without faith. Those who believe in God's providence see lawful, honest government as part of God's will and are willing to make sacrifices to get one. In fact they feel duty bound to make those sacrifices. On the other hand those without such faith in a higher calling generally do not see the sacrifices as worthwhile since the spiritual rewards are not valued or recognized. They tend to look only at the likely practical result of getting involved and decline to do so. And yes, getting involved in the patriot or tax honesty movement is not something that someone does to get rich. Most people who do it by choice end up with a reduced standard of living (though there are those who are advocates of financial success in spite of being involved -- and patriots do have the advantage of understanding the hazard of fiat currency, flexible credit and the Federal Reserve system which gives them reason to hold gold and silver which is now substantially escalating in price). So it's no real coincidence that principled and dedicated christians end up dominating the patriot movement. It's a movement that generally appeals *only* to dedicated, principled christians. Of course both christians and pagens are entitled to the same rights and freedoms under the law. After all, you cannot make endowment of one right contingent upon the manner in which another is exercised, and freedom of "religion" is a right christians and pagens both enjoy. If the courts and Congress were not deciding that your life is federal business from cradle to grave, then your question of whether you're entitled to religious objection to an SSN would be moot. As it is, if you as a professing pagen go to court raising a religious objection to using an SSN.... then good luck. I hope you win. In closing, let me say I've never had any peace in condemning people for not being christian. Though I believe God certainly does give different missions to different people, our general calling is to be witnesses, not judges, and a witness simply tells of things he has seen and heard, and nothing more. I'm glad you're with us in this effort. I hope you continue to be honest to yourself and others, as appropriate, in your personal journey and let others be honest with you. I hope that you'll stay with us and that we can work together for much success with the Freedom movement. Thanks very much for your note. Neil McIver Post Comment Private Reply Ignore Thread Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 4.
#4. To: Neil McIver (#0)
I don't care what these folks believe, it's no skin off my nose. I've had pagan friends over the years and they're mainly fine people. The reality though, is that the overwhelming majority of people in this country are Christian so most of us are going to operate from that perspective. I don't think we should be dissing other religions unless they practice evil things like human sacrifice, etc, but the pagans also have to understand that they're a tiny minority in the scheme of things.
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