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Immigration
See other Immigration Articles

Title: Immigration Forum Gets Intense
Source: LAT
URL Source: http://www.latimes.com/news/printed ... oll=la-headlines-pe-california
Published: Apr 24, 2006
Author: Teresa Watanabe
Post Date: 2006-04-24 17:07:08 by Tauzero
Keywords: None
Views: 100
Comments: 16

Immigration Forum Gets Intense

A discussion at L.A.'s Leimert Park about illegal migrants and their impact on blacks escalates into a shouting match over jobs, housing and schools.

By Teresa Watanabe, Times Staff Writer
April 24, 2006

Reflecting intense passions over illegal immigration, a Los Angeles outdoor forum about its impact on blacks quickly became a screaming match Sunday between those urging a crackdown on undocumented migrants and others counseling tolerance.

The gathering at Leimert Park in South Los Angeles, which eventually involved about 100 people, was aimed at publicizing what some blacks believe has been illegal immigration's negative effect on their neighborhoods, housing, schools and jobs, said Ted Hayes, founder of the Crispus Attucks Brigade, an African American group newly organized to fight the influx of undocumented migrants.

"Illegal immigration is the greatest threat to African Americans since slavery," Hayes said, before stepping onto a park bench and leading about 30 people in chants: "We're fired up! We can't take it no more!"

But no sooner had Hayes begun to speak when a handful of other blacks approached him with their own loudspeaker, yelling a counter message of unity in Spanish and English.

"The people united will never be divided!" yelled Julia Wallace, an African American member of the Progressive Alliance, as a handful of her supporters waved signs urging worker unity.

Hayes' supporters were later challenged by a few Latinos who wandered into the park and ended up in face-to-face debates over jobs, lawbreaking, the Mexican economy and a host of other hot-button issues.

When Terrance Lang, a 41-year-old African American, complained that Latino immigrants were taking jobs from blacks, Jose Haro, a 21-year-old Mexican American, retorted that maybe blacks weren't looking hard enough for them.

"It's so easy to find a job anywhere!" Haro said. "I find one in one day: moving companies, offices, anything. These people are lazy," he said, referring to blacks.

As the decibel levels rose and the two groups pressed closer to each other, police separated them with yellow tape.

The raucous debate, coming as Congress returns this week from recess to resume work on immigration reform and President Bush plans a speech on the issue today in Irvine, underscored the growing tensions in some black neighborhoods over the influx of immigrants. Some African Americans allege they are being shut out of jobs and housing by Latino supervisors and landlords; others say their children are shortchanged in schools that once were predominantly black but now cater to Spanish speakers. Violence between blacks and Latinos in schools and jails has increased.

Several studies have shown that the large influx of immigrants in the last 20 years has significantly expanded the nation's labor pool, allowing employers to depress the wages of the least-skilled and least-educated workers.

At the forum Sunday, many blacks said they bore no ill will toward immigrants in general but were alarmed by their seeming impact on their lives.

When Sean Jourdan, a 33-year-old African American born in Los Angeles, began work as a satellite TV installer in 1995, he said, most of his colleagues were black and all made more than $1,200 a week. That was enough, he said, to comfortably support a family.

Today, he said, only two of 75 workers at his firm are black — the rest are Latino — and wages have plunged. Desperate for supplemental income, Jourdan said, he recently bought a hot dog cart.

"I don't hate Hispanics," he said, "but I shouldn't have to compete like this when my people fought and died for this country. This is my birthright: to work, not to beg, for a living wage. They tell you to go to school and follow the laws of the land and you'll rise up. I've done that, but I'm being undermined."

As he listened to Jourdan's laments, Juan Santos, a self-described Chicano activist and writer, said he was sympathetic. But he said the problem was not Latinos, it was the nation's "capitalist class" that had shipped good jobs overseas, imported cheap labor and was now trying to pit workers against each other.

"It's the system that's at fault, not Mexicans," Santos said.

Hayes said his new group plans to organize a protest march through downtown Los Angeles to City Hall on May 21, invite gang members to join border patrols to stop illegal immigration and visit African American elected officials to demand to know how they plan to address the issue.

He added that he has written to Pope Benedict XVI, asking him to "rein in" Cardinal Roger M. Mahony, the Roman Catholic archbishop of Los Angeles, who has actively advocated for legalizing illegal immigrants and other reform measures.

Hayes is also an advocate for the homeless and helped to found Dome Village, a downtown experiment in alternative housing.

The forum drew an eclectic crowd that included African American members of the Minuteman Project, which sends private citizens on border patrols to stop illegal immigration; a Latino carrying a sign saying that America was actually Mexican territory; and one man wearing a Malcolm X cap and a "Bush-Cheney" political button.

When Hayes and others praised the Minutemen as patriotic Americans, other blacks screamed back that they were similar to the vigilantes who hunted down escaped slaves.

"Shame on you!" yelled Betty Jones, a Los Angeles resident.

But as the debates raged on, at least one person seemed pleased. Surveying the crowd, Santos, the Chicano activist, smiled and said:

"This debate is beautiful. These people are honestly trying to sort through all of these conflicts and contradictions."

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#1. To: Tauzero (#0)

"This debate is beautiful. These people are honestly trying to sort through all of these conflicts and contradictions."

Some of us already have - and there is no debate...

Press 1 for English. Press 2 for Deportation.

mirage  posted on  2006-04-24   17:14:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Tauzero (#0)

When Hayes and others praised the Minutemen as patriotic Americans, other blacks screamed back that they were similar to the vigilantes who hunted down escaped slaves.

"Shame on you!" yelled Betty Jones, a Los Angeles resident.

we're soooo screwed.

"Of the corporate elites, by the corporate elites, for the corporate elites" - it's what America is all about. Now send your kids off to fight and die in Iraq so that corporate pigs get everything and we get nothing. What else have we ever fought for?~~Elliott J

christine  posted on  2006-04-24   17:20:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Tauzero (#0)

"It's so easy to find a job anywhere!" Haro said. "I find one in one day: moving companies, offices, anything. These people are lazy," he said, referring to blacks.

Latinos can say things that would get a white fired or sued. Ain't democracy grand?

Phaedrus  posted on  2006-04-24   17:25:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Phaedrus (#3)

Latinos can say things that would get a white fired or sued. Ain't democracy grand?

Blacks can say things that would get a white fired or sued. Ain't democracy grand? ;)

"Of the corporate elites, by the corporate elites, for the corporate elites" - it's what America is all about. Now send your kids off to fight and die in Iraq so that corporate pigs get everything and we get nothing. What else have we ever fought for?~~Elliott J

christine  posted on  2006-04-24   17:27:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: christine (#4)

Ain't democracy grand? ;)

Everyone gets to be a Grand Busybody, except of course whites ... ;-}

Phaedrus  posted on  2006-04-24   17:31:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: christine, Tauzero, All (#4)

New INS Report: 1986 Amnesty Increased Illegal Immigration

Phaedrus  posted on  2006-04-24   17:38:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Phaedrus (#5)

observant pair, aren't we? :)

"Of the corporate elites, by the corporate elites, for the corporate elites" - it's what America is all about. Now send your kids off to fight and die in Iraq so that corporate pigs get everything and we get nothing. What else have we ever fought for?~~Elliott J

christine  posted on  2006-04-24   17:39:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Phaedrus (#6)

Well, duh. Remember the difference between rats and humans.


The butterfly's wings stilled once, then once again, and Rome was no more.

Tauzero  posted on  2006-04-24   17:43:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Phaedrus (#6)

Amnesties clearly do not solve the problem of illegal immigration. About 2.7 million people received lawful permanent residence ("green cards") in the late 1980s and early 1990s as a result of the amnesties contained in the Immigration Reform and Control Act (IRCA) of 1986. But these new INS figures show that by the beginning of 1997 those former illegal aliens had been entirely replaced by new illegal aliens, and that the unauthorized population again stood at more than 5 million, just as before the amnesty.

In fact, the new INS estimates show that the 1986 amnesty almost certainly increased illegal immigration, as the relatives of newly legalized illegals came to the United States to join their family members. The flow of illegals grew dramatically during the years of the amnesty to more than 800,000 a year, before dropping back down to around 500,000 a year.

too bad, but expected, this was largely ignored by our "leaders."

"Of the corporate elites, by the corporate elites, for the corporate elites" - it's what America is all about. Now send your kids off to fight and die in Iraq so that corporate pigs get everything and we get nothing. What else have we ever fought for?~~Elliott J

christine  posted on  2006-04-24   17:44:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Tauzero, christine (#8)

I did not claim that any of this is rocket science ... ;-}

Phaedrus  posted on  2006-04-24   17:47:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: mirage (#1)

its a battle for a free lunch.

'We shall no longer hang on to the tails of public opinion, or to a non-existent authority, on matters utterly unknown and strange. We shall gradually become experts ourselves in the mastery of the knowledge of the future.' ~ Wilhelm Reich

gengis gandhi  posted on  2006-04-24   18:15:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: christine (#2)

"Illegal immigration is the greatest threat to African Americans since slavery,"

"It's so easy to find a job anywhere!" Haro said. "I find one in one day: moving companies, offices, anything. These people are lazy," he said, referring to blacks.

wayuuuuuuuuuuuuuullllll now....

guess that lets mean ole whitey off the hook!

yep. i'm off now to buy me some rebel flags, jim beam and ammo.

i guess the mexicans are all racist too, though.

sweet, divine irony...like sunshine for the soul.

'We shall no longer hang on to the tails of public opinion, or to a non-existent authority, on matters utterly unknown and strange. We shall gradually become experts ourselves in the mastery of the knowledge of the future.' ~ Wilhelm Reich

gengis gandhi  posted on  2006-04-24   18:20:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: gengis gandhi (#11)

its a battle for a free lunch.

There will be no free lunches once the boomers begin to retire :-)

Press 1 for English. Press 2 for Deportation.

mirage  posted on  2006-04-24   18:22:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Tauzero, christine (#0)

I think the PTB are orchestrating all of this regarding the immigrants to distract us from more wars about to begin.

Diana  posted on  2006-04-24   18:24:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: gengis gandhi (#12)

sweet, divine irony...like sunshine for the soul.

mmmmhmmmm..

"Of the corporate elites, by the corporate elites, for the corporate elites" - it's what America is all about. Now send your kids off to fight and die in Iraq so that corporate pigs get everything and we get nothing. What else have we ever fought for?~~Elliott J

christine  posted on  2006-04-24   18:25:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Tauzero (#0)

When Sean Jourdan, a 33-year-old African American born in Los Angeles, began work as a satellite TV installer in 1995, he said, most of his colleagues were black and all made more than $1,200 a week. That was enough, he said, to comfortably support a family.

Today, he said, only two of 75 workers at his firm are black — the rest are Latino — and wages have plunged. Desperate for supplemental income, Jourdan said, he recently bought a hot dog cart.

From $1,200 a week to a hot dog stand sounds like NAFTA and illegal immigration have worked out well for Wall Street. 25 years ago the janitors in SF and LA were all black and union members. Now they are all illegal aliens from Mexico and make one third what janitors made in 1980 if you adjust for inflation. $13.00 an hour in 1980 is the same as $31.52 an hour today. (Go to www.Bls.gov and click on the inflation calculator in the top left corner.) I don't live in LA but I doubt that the labor contractors are paying more than $10.00 an hour. I know a fellow who speaks Spanish and hires non-English speaking illegals in the SF Bay Area where it costs more to live. He pays $7.50 an hour. Someone should point out to the Dems and Reps in the Senate that you will never find native born citizens willing to work for $7.50 an hour in an area where a house costs $700,000.

If we brought in another 20,000,000 through an amnesty and a guest worker program, the wages would drop even further. I once explained logically to a Mexican-American college student that after the dollar collapses, illegal aliens would have to work for $2.50 an hour after taxes. He thought it over and said, "Well. They would still would have to come here." I said, "Do you realize what hardship that would wreak on those people who work for a living in America?" He said, "Yes. But they would still have to come here."

Horse  posted on  2006-04-24   23:21:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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