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Title: US: Legal challenges to lethal injection as “cruel and unusual”
Source: WSWS
URL Source: http://www.wsws.org/articles/2006/may2006/leth-m08.shtml
Published: May 8, 2006
Author: Kate Randall
Post Date: 2006-05-08 18:59:50 by loner
Keywords: None
Views: 101
Comments: 7

8 May 2006

Lethal injection is the method of execution used in 37 of the 38 states that practice capital punishment in the United States. It is also applied in federal capital cases. Of the 1,022 death row inmates executed since the US Supreme Court reinstated the death penalty in 1976, 854 have died by lethal injection.

Recent court cases challenging lethal injection, as well as a new report by Human Rights Watch (HRW), have added to growing evidence and awareness that this procedure—touted by death penalty advocates as “humane”—is nothing of the sort. It is a technique that epitomizes all that is inherently barbaric and uncivilized about capital punishment. In fact, the method used to kill hundreds of death row inmates is banned in 30 states for animal euthanasia because of its cruelty.

Claims that the injection of a toxic mix of chemicals into the veins of a condemned prisoner results in a “relatively” painless and peaceful death are dispelled by witness accounts and prison records that show the practice has inflicted both mental and physical anguish on numerous individuals.

Just last Tuesday, May 2, Joseph Clark was executed at the Southern Ohio Correctional Institution in Lucasville. Clark, 57, was convicted of two murders during an eight-day killing spree in 1984 and was the 21st person to be put to death since the state resumed executions in 1999.

According to a prison spokeswoman, Clark’s execution was delayed about 90 minutes because technicians had trouble finding a vein to administer the chemicals. Just as the poisons were supposed to then begin pumping into his body, he sat up saying, “It’s not working. It’s not working.” Officials determined that a vein had collapsed and the curtains were drawn to block witnesses’ view until a vein could be found in his other arm. The curtains were then reopened for witnesses to view him dying, and he was pronounced dead at 11:26 a.m.

The Human Rights Watch report released April 24—“So Long as They Die: Lethal Injections in the United States”—cited 15 “botched executions” between 1982 and the present, including the following two accounts from 2003:

“Eddie Ernest Hartman, executed in North Carolina on October 3, 2003. As the drugs were being administered, Hartman’s throat began alternately thrusting outward and collapsing inward. His neck pulsed, bulged, and shook repeatedly. Hartman’s eyes were open, and his body convulsed and contorted throughout the execution until he died.”

“John Daniels, executed in North Carolina on November 14, 2003. Daniels lay still as the warden announced that the execution would proceed. Then suddenly, he started to convulse. He sat up, and witnesses could hear him gagging through the glass that separated him from them. After laying down again for a brief time, he sat up, gagged, and choked, while his arms appeared to be struggling underneath the sheet covering him.”

The standard method of lethal injection used in the US involves inserting a catheter with an intravenous line attached into the vein of a prisoner strapped to a gurney. Three drugs are then injected into the line by executioners hidden from view: an anesthetic (sodium thiopental), followed by a paralytic agent (pancuronium bromide), and finally a drug that causes the heart to cease beating (potassium chloride).

This three-drug sequence was developed in 1977 by an Oklahoma medical examiner with no expertise in anesthesia or pharmacology. It was then adopted first by Texas, and then in state after state by authorities with no medical or scientific background. According to HRW, the way these three drugs are administered by prison authorities leaves open the possibility that prisoners may experience excruciating pain during their executions.

The main concern is that if the first anesthetic portion of the lethal mix is given in insufficient amounts, or if the prisoner is not anesthetized to a deep level of unconsciousness, he or she will suffer the agonizing effects of the other two chemicals.

With the administration of pancuroniuim bromide, a neuromuscular blocking agent, prisoners would feel themselves suffocating, but would be unable to draw breath. Without proper anesthetization, when the potassium chloride is then administered the prisoner would feel as though fire was coursing through his or her veins before cardiac arrest sets in.

During execution, such torturous effects can go undetected because the prisoner is paralyzed. In what can only be interpreted as a cruel twist motivated by political considerations, the appearance of a painless execution is preserved. As HRW writes, “The only advantage of current protocols is that they yield executions that are relatively quick and appear painless—whatever the reality. As such, the current method is easier for witnesses to the execution as well as for the executioners.”

Growing controversy over the use of lethal injection has led to numerous legal cases challenging the practice. Lawsuits in California, Florida, Maryland and Missouri have temporarily halted executions in those states. Six of the 17 state death row prisoners scheduled to be put to death between January 1 and April 21, as well as 3 federal inmates, received at least temporary stays.

California death row inmate Michael Morales was granted a last-minute reprieve February 21 when San Quentin prison officials could not comply with a US District Court judge’s order that two anesthesiologists be present at his lethal injection to ensure that he didn’t suffer. The anesthesiologists withdrew when they learned that they would have to intervene in the procedure with the administration of additional barbiturates if Morales woke up or appeared to suffer pain. An evidentiary hearing in the case is set for September 19. (See “Last-minute reprieve for California death row inmate”)

In North Carolina, Willie Brown Jr., 61, was executed on April 21 at the state’s Central Prison. Attorneys for Brown had argued that the methods used by North Carolina and 36 other states did not fully ensure prisoners were unconscious before the second two drugs in the lethal mix were injected, subjecting them to an agonizing death.

US District Judge Malcolm Howard approved a novel procedure whereby a doctor and registered nurse would be on hand at the execution with a brain wave monitor to determine whether Brown was unconscious before he was injected with the deadly chemicals.

Dr. Priscilla Ray, head of the American Medical Association’s Council on Ethical and Judicial Affairs, condemned the co-opting of doctors into the macabre proceedings: “Requiring physician to be involved in executions violates their oath to protect lives and erodes public confidence in the medical profession.”

On April 26, the US Supreme Court heard the case of Florida death row inmate Clarence Hill. The high court blocked Hill’s execution in January as he lay strapped to a gurney with IVs inserted in his arm. Hill is arguing that Florida’s administration of the death penalty by lethal injection violates the Constitutional ban on cruel and unusual punishment. Having exhausted his appeals in Florida, Hill is seeking the right to challenge the injection process in federal court.

Discussion among the justices on the Florida case illustrated the attitudes on capital punishment prevailing on the high court. Comments ranged from concern over proper administration of the death penalty to outright disdain for any consideration of whether or not pain was inflicted—all couched within the framework of preserving the gruesome practice.

The state of Florida contends that it is too late for Clarence Hill to contest the plans for his death. Florida Assistant Deputy Attorney General Carolyn Snurkowski argued that the only way Hill could file a challenge to his execution would be for him to come up with an alternative proposal to lethal injection.

Justice David Souter commented, “Why does he have an obligation...to tell the state how to execute people?” Anthony Kennedy asked, “Doesn’t the state have a minimal obligation on its own” to investigate whether its executions cause gratuitous pain?

John Paul Stevens pointed out to Snurkowski, “Your procedure would be prohibited if applied to dogs and cats.” Steven Breyer said it didn’t seem to be “too difficult” to alter the drugs, and that the state should not “have any interest in causing pain.”

Justice Kennedy later scolded several justices for laughing as they joked about the trouble that defense attorneys could cause if they were forced to propose methods of executing their clients. “This is a death case,” he said.

Antonin Scalia countered that the Constitution does not require painless deaths. Referring to the most prevalent execution method of a previous era, he noted to one of Clarence Hill’s attorneys, “Hanging was not a quick and easy way to go.”

The court’s ruling in the case is expected before July.

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#1. To: fatdic, Ashland, AtomicPete, bluegrass, IndieTx, RedJones, Zipporah, Christine, mugwort, BlackJade, robin, Kamala (#0)

Truthseeker

loner  posted on  2006-05-08   19:03:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: loner (#0)

Justice David Souter commented, “Why does he have an obligation...to tell the state how to execute people?” Anthony Kennedy asked, “Doesn’t the state have a minimal obligation on its own” to investigate whether its executions cause gratuitous pain? [Been there, done that. Got their education from the experts in killing....see below]

John Paul Stevens pointed out to Snurkowski, “Your procedure would be prohibited if applied to dogs and cats.” Steven Breyer said it didn’t seem to be “too difficult” to alter the drugs, and that the state should not “have any interest in causing pain.”

Justice Kennedy later scolded several justices for laughing as they joked about the trouble that defense attorneys could cause if they were forced to propose methods of executing their clients. “This is a death case,” he said.

Antonin Scalia countered that the Constitution does not require painless deaths. Referring to the most prevalent execution method of a previous era, he noted to one of Clarence Hill’s attorneys, “Hanging was not a quick and easy way to go.”

My, my, wonder where they are going with this?

Georgia: Bill to replace electric chair with guillotineGeorgia lawmaker Doug Teper (Democrat) has proposed a bill to replace the state's electric ... 1-25 punishment either by electrocution or by guillotine. If ... http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.co m/ hardtruth/georgia_bill_guillotine.htm

As always, and in keeping with the Hegelian Dialect [problem, reaction, solution], the Talmudic Jews have the answer:

http://www.jlaw.com/Briefs/capit al2.html

Jewish Law

Bryan v. Moore Supreme Court of the United States

ARGUMENT

Introduction

Capital punishment is a penalty prescribed by Biblical law for the commission of offenses that violate ritual prohibitions (such as deliberate desecration of the Sabbath) as well as laws regarding interpersonal relationships (murder, kidnapping, incest). The Biblical text explicitly specifies two forms of execution: stoning (Exodus 17:4, 8:22; Numbers 14:10) and burning (Leviticus 20:14, 21:9). The oral tradition includes two additional means -- strangulation and decapitation.

Although the Biblical text appears to contemplate frequent imposition of capital punishment, the weight of authority among rabbis of the Mishnaic period (1st-3rd centuries of the Common Era), who first committed to writing what had theretofore been transmitted from generation to generation as the Oral Law, clearly condemned frequent executions. The Mishna2 in the tractate Makkoth (7a) declared:

The Sanhedrin3 that executes one person in seven years is called "murderous." Rabbi Elazar ben Azariah says that this extends to one execution in seventy years. Rabbi Tarfon and Rabbi Akiva say, "If we had been among the Sanhedrin, no one would ever have been executed." Rabbi Simon ben Gamliel responds, "Such an attitude would increase bloodshed in Israel."

This exchange among rabbis living in the first and second centuries reflects differences over the deterrent value of capital punishment that continue among legal scholars to this day. Some rabbis of the Mishnaic period (such as Rabbis Tarfon and Akiva) were unwilling to participate in a process that would take human life, while other rabbis (like Rabbi Simon ben Gamliel) believed that capital punishment had a deterrent effect that permitted it to be employed.

The infrequency of the death penalty was attributable to the meticulous application of stringent rules regarding the admissibility and sufficiency of evidence. A court of at least 23 judges would have to be satisfied, to a legal certainty, that the capital offense had been committed before the court could impose a death sentence. Since the testimony of two eye-witnesses was required, and the witnesses were subjected to searching and detailed interrogation by the court, there was rarely an instance when the evidence met the prescribed legal standard. See Maimonides, Mishneh Torah, Book of Judges, Sanhedrin, chapter XII4.

By Talmudic prescription and the rulings of Jewish-law codifiers through Maimonides, the particular form of execution to be administered under Jewish law depended upon the nature of the offense. Each of these forms, however, had to be administered in the most humane manner possible.

This amicus brief does not address the question of whether all capital punishment should today be rejected as "cruel and unusual" punishment. That question is not before the Court in this case. Our brief addresses only the question whether the mode of execution employed by Florida renders capital punishment "cruel and unusual" in that State. This brief accordingly reviews rabbinic doctrines and discussion regarding the methods used in implementing the death penalty.

It is striking, we submit, that in prescribing methods for imposition of the death penalty almost two millennia ago, the rabbis of the Talmud were concerned about the same factors that have emerged from this Court’s Eighth Amendment jurisprudence. Primary concerns under Talmudic law are (1) the prevention of unnecessary pain and (2) avoidance of mutilation or dismemberment of the body. As discussed below, the four means of execution described in the Talmud were designed to utilize the most effective technology and scientific knowledge available at the time, to minimize the pain of the person who was being put to death, and to avoid mutilation of his or her body. [my note: the better to scavenge the chattels' bodies for spare parts.] The methods described in the Talmud, therefore, differ significantly from what is commonly assumed from a reading of the Biblical text.

The conclusions regarding Jewish Law that we summarize in this brief were expressed in an opinion issued by the then Deputy President of the Supreme Court of Israel, the Honorable Menachem Elon, in State of Israel v. Tamir, 37 (iii) P.D. 201 (1983). Justice Elon, who is now retired from the Israeli Supreme Court, has reviewed the text of this amicus brief and authorized us to state that he concurs with its conclusions5.

I. THE BIBLICAL OBLIGATION TO BE SENSITIVE TO FELLOW HUMAN BEINGS LED THE RABBIS TO PRESCRIBE THE LEAST PAINFUL AND LEAST DISFIGURING MEANS FOR IMPLEMENTING THE FOUR FORMS OF EXECUTION

A casual reader of the Biblical text might assume that the execution described as "stoning" is carried out by hurling stones at the condemned individual until he dies from the force of the objects thrown at him and that "burning" is accomplished by subjecting the condemned to a burning flame after tying the condemned to a stake or casting him or her on a funeral pyre. The oral tradition, however, as explicated by the rabbis of the Talmud demonstrates that neither of these descriptions is the "stoning" and "burning" envisioned by the Bible.

A. "Stoning" Was Intended To Be a Quick and Relatively Painless Form of Non- disfiguring Execution.

The Mishna in tractate Sanhedrin (45a) describes execution by "stoning." The condemned defendant was pushed from a platform set high enough above a stone floor that his fall would probably result in instantaneous death6.

The Talmud explains that the height from which the accused was pushed was substantial enough that death was virtually certain. Providing for an immediate death was, according to the Talmud, derived from the Biblical commandment (Leviticus 19:18), "You shall love your fellow as yourself." This commandment requires a court to select for a condemned man a humane (i.e., painless) death (Sanhedrin 45a). Rashi, the leading medieval commentator on the Talmud,7 explained that when the Talmud says a "humane death" it means a "quick death."

The continuation of the discourse in Sanhedrin reveals that the rabbis’ ultimate concern was that the mode of execution be as quick and as painless as possible, and that it cause as little disfigurement as possible. When one rabbi suggested that the height of the platform should be increased so that death from the fall would be certain, another rabbi responded that raising the platform is unacceptable because a fall from too high a platform would result in disfigurement.

B. "Burning" Was Intended To Be a Quick and Relatively Painless Non-disfiguring Form of Execution.

The Mishna in Sanhedrin (52a) also described the procedure for "burning" and stated clearly that it did not involve actual resort to fire or flames. Rather, an extremely hot object (or wick) was inserted into the mouth of the condemned individual so as to cause instantaneous death. Here, too, the objective was to cause death quickly and without mutilation of the body.

Indeed, the Mishna concludes with a very revealing passage that condemns any court that would put an accused to death with actual flames (id.; emphasis added):

Rabbi Elazar the son of Rabbi Tzadok said "An incident once occurred with the daughter of a priest who committed adultery and they surrounded her with bundles of branches and burned her." The other rabbis responded to him, "That was done because the court that performed this execution was not knowledgeable."

The concluding comment of the Mishna indicates that regardless of the common understanding of "burning," the rabbis believed that a court that would actually set a person on fire was a court acting in error. The Talmud, in fact, explains that the incident reported in the Mishna was the work of a court of Sadducees (i.e., those who mistakenly applied the Biblical text without taking account of the oral tradition and rabbinic interpretation). This passage demonstrates once again the rabbis’ primary concern that the method of execution not cause unnecessary pain or disfigurement of the body.

C. Decapitation and Strangulation Were Intended To Be Quick and Relatively Painless Forms of Execution.

The Mishna (Sanhedrin 52b) describes execution by decapitation – which was invoked primarily for murderers – as the same form of capital punishment that was used at the time by civil rulers under the Roman legal system. The condemned person’s trachea and esophagus were severed with a sharp sword so that he would die instantly. When one rabbi of the Mishna suggested that it was too demeaning to the accused to be executed in a standing position because his body would slump to the floor and that, instead, his head should be positioned on a wooden chopping-block and removed with an ax, the majority of the rabbis responded that this was impermissible because it could result in even greater mutilation.

This discussion on the subject of decapitation reveals again how conscious the rabbis were of the obligations (1) to impose rapid death, (2) to minimize pain, and (3) to avoid mutilation. In actual administration of this form of execution, they sought to achieve these objectives. The discussion of this form of execution was again concluded with the previously cited observation, attributed to one Rabbi Nachman, quoting Rabba the son of Avuha: "Scripture states, ‘You shall love your fellow as yourself’ so that you must choose for him a humane death." This admonition is repeated in the Talmudic tractates Pesachim (75a) and Ketubot (37a).

The same principle governed the rules of strangulation. Death is caused by quick and certain choking when a cord around the condemned person’s neck is pulled in opposite directions simultaneously by the eye-witnesses to the offense (who are required to participate in the execution). Pain and mutilation are minimized because the cord that is used for the execution is placed within a soft cloth. The Talmud explains that this form of death "leaves no mark on the body."

II MODERN APPLICATION OF JEWISH LAW IMPLEMENTS THE SAME PRINCIPLES OF HUMANITY AND CONSIDERATION

The State of Israel has abolished capital punishment for all offenses other than genocide, war crimes, crimes against humanity, crimes against the Jewish people, and treason in wartime. The only execution that has taken place in Israel was the execution of Adolf Eichmann, in which the condemned man was hanged.

In an important prisoners’-rights case, however, Deputy President of the Supreme Court Menachem Elon wrote an opinion in which he said (State of Israel v. Tamir, 37(iii) P.D. 201 (1983)):

Jewish Law was particularly insistent on the preservation of even a criminal’s rights and dignity during the course of punishment. Maimonides, after dealing with the types of punishment a court may impose, including imprisonment, concludes: "All these matters apply to the extent that the judge deems appropriate and necessary for the needs of the time. In all matters, he shall act for the sake of Heaven and not regard human dignity lightly . . . . He must be careful not to destroy their dignity." According to Jewish law, a death sentence must be carried out with the minimum of suffering and without offense to human dignity. This is based on the Biblical verse, "Love your fellow as yourself," and the rule is, "Choose for him a humane death." From this we declare that even a condemned felon is your "fellow."8

Contemporary Jewish Law coincides with the Jewish Law doctrines that governed two millennia ago. It is not permissible to execute a condemned man or woman by means that cause unnecessary pain, delay or disfigurement. Even in the rare case when the State has determined that the accused must be put to death because he or she committed a heinous offense, the condemned is legally entitled to consideration and dignity.

CONCLUSION

If execution by the electric chair, as administered in Florida, results in unnecessary pain and disfigurement, it would be unacceptable under the principles underlying the traditional Jewish legal system applied 2000 years ago, and should also be unacceptable under the Eighth Amendment today.

Respectfully submitted,

DENNIS RAPPS NATIONAL JEWISH COMMISSION ON LAW AND PUBLIC AFFAIRS ("COLPA") 1290 Avenue of the Americas New York, NY 10104 (212) 314-6384

ROBERT L. WEINBERG INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF JEWISH LAWYERS AND JURISTS AMERICAN SECTION ("IAJLJ") 1640 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 775-0991

NATHAN LEWIN (Counsel of Record) ALYZA D. LEWIN Miller, Cassidy, Larroca & Lewin, L.L.P. 2555 M Street, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20037-1302 (202) 293-6400 Attorneys for the Amici Curiae

December 1999

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FOOTNOTES:

2. The Mishna is "the collection of mostly halachic Jewish traditions compiled about A.D. 200 and made the basic part of the Talmud." Merriam Websters’ Collegiate Dictionary (10th ed. 1993). The Talmud, which was compiled in the Fifth Century, is the authoritative body of Jewish tradition and is comprised of the "Mishna" and the "Gemara."

3. The Sanhedrin was the "supreme legislative council and highest ecclesiastical and secular tribunal of the Jews, consisting of 71 members and exercising its greatest authority from the Fifth Century B.C. to A.D. 70." Webster’s Encyclopedic Unabridged Dictionary of the English Language (1989).

4. Rabbi Moses ben Maimon (also known as Maimonides) was a rabbinic authority and leading early codifier of Jewish Law. Born in Spain in 1135, he settled first in Morocco and then in Egypt, and died in 1204. His 14-volume work, called Mishneh Torah, is viewed as the earliest enduring codification of Jewish Law. Maimonides also served as a royal physician and a philosopher. He is also the author of a leading Jewish philosophical work called Moreh Nevuchim ("The Guide to the Perplexed").

5. Counsel note that Justice Elon is the world’s foremost modern legal authority on "Mishpat Ivri" – legal principles derived from traditional Jewish Law. His comprehensive treatise, Ha-Mishpat Ha-Ivri, was published in Israel in 1973, before he was appointed a Justice of the Supreme Court of Israel, and republished in 1978 and 1988. Elon, Ha-Mishpat Ha-Ivri (Magnes Press, The Hebrew University, Jerusalem, 1973). It was translated into English and published in four volumes in 1994 by the Jewish Publication Society. Menachem Elon, Jewish Law: History, Sources, Principles, (Bernard Auerbach and Melvin J. Sykes trans., Jewish Publication Society, Philadelphia, 1994)

6. We reproduce, as Amicus App. A, pp. 1a – 30a, infra, copies of the relevant pages of Talmud Bavli: Sanhedrin (Mesorah Publications, Inc., 1994) with the permission of the publisher.

7. Rabbi Shlomo ben Yitzchak (also known as Rashi) was born in 1040 in Troyes, France, and died in 1105. He is the foremost Jewish commentator on the Bible and Talmud. His commentary, which combines literal and allegorical explanations, appears in all standard volumes of the Bible and Talmud.

8. Justice Elon’s opinion in the Tamir case, translated into English, is reprinted in full in Elon, et al., Jewish Law (Mishpat Ivri): Cases and Materials (Matthew Bender & Co, Inc., New York, 1999) pp. 567-572.

http://www.jlaw.com/Briefs/capital2.html

Noachide Judges and Courts will Replace the Existing Court System of Each Country

[Upon seizing the reins of government, the new Noachide leaders will move quickly to implement a full agenda of reform. ... Full support will be given to Israeli forces to reinvade PLO-controlled areas, with military assistance offered where necessary. Jewish courts ... will be granted full legal sovereignty over Jewish citizens within each country, who will no longer be subject to the authority of gentile courts.

The pre-existing Noachide judges and courts will replace the existing court system of each country, and the legal code will be drastically rewritten to conform to halacha.... .... And law and order will be fully restored through the establishment of internal security measures, again in accordance with Torah law. — Committee for Israeli Victory]

http://www.cephas- http://library.com/nwo/nwo_noachide_judge_and_courts_will_replace_ours.html

White House Proclamations by *** the Talmudic Jew, George Bush II

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/03/20010322-2.html

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020325-4.html

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/04/20030411-2.html

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/04/20040402-16.html

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/04/20050419-3.html

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/04/20060406-9.html

Merry Christmas and OFF WITH YOUR HEAD! http://www.public- http://action.com/christmas.html

"Death Penalty and Talmud Law, Part 1: Sentence and ExecutionIt is noteworthy that decapitation — the most disfiguring form of execution in opinion of ... Copyright Carol A. Valentine, 2003...." http://www.come- and-hear.com/editor/capunish_1.html

"Death Penalty and Talmud Law, Part 2: Accusation and TrialThose who are decapitated follow, viz., a murderer and the inhabitants of a condemned ... Copyright Carol A. Valentine, 2003...." http://www.come-and- http://hear.com/editor/capunish_2. html

The above is for the edification of the "Christian" bushbots who may be reading this, and who still have their heads where the sun don't shine.

AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt  posted on  2006-05-10   11:39:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#2)

I read an article once which claimed a federal agency bought many thousands of guillotines. Wish I could find it again.

"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue! Sen. Barry Goldwater

BTP Holdings  posted on  2006-05-10   11:55:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: BTP Holdings (#3)

Hmmm. Did you try searching GUILLOTINES IN AMERICA?

AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt  posted on  2006-05-10   15:39:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: BTP Holdings (#3)

Maybe an announcement along those lines is what it will take to wake up the bushbots.

AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt  posted on  2006-05-10   15:42:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#2)

To reduce the death penalty as the cause of the jews just takes away from the issue at hand, which is the cruelty of the death penalty, not to mention its obsolescence. and barbarity. If you want to point your finger at someone, I suggest you look towards the rich, this is your real enemy, leave your poor brothers and sisters alone.

Truthseeker

loner  posted on  2006-05-10   18:58:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: loner (#6)

I was just coming back to take another crack at this post, after trying to read it over slowly this time, and only being able to get half-way through it before being totally repulsed by the barbarity of this JEWISH government. I was searching on Vine and Fig Tree to see whether the webmaster had anything to say on the subject of capital punishment. I was not able to find exactly what I was looking for, but I came back anyway, and lo, and behold, I find the above.

Your retort is, IMO, dead-on wrong. In the first place, I know most all of the diabolical plans the synagogue of Satan has for America. These are the people I was talking about. You can call them "the rich", if that's what you want to, however, there are rich Christians who wouldn't DREAM of presenting such outlandish, barbaric methods of killing as a substitute for capital punishment to the Supreme Court, as if it were a completely normal thing to do. It just goes to show their depraved mental state. There is no precedent whatsoever for those antiChrists in the Supreme Court for even hearing that abominable trash. I guess I should have made myself clear at the outgo. I am an opponent of the death penalty. I think it is barbaric and a waste of money, not to mention it is administered unfairly and too often, against the innocent.

As for "the poor brothers and sisters", those who reject Jesus Christ, and attend and financially support synagogues where they teach that my Lord and Saviour is a False Prophet, who performed magic with his membrum; is boiling in hell in hot excrement; condone sex with children; believe my children are less than human, were born to serve them and/or are idolators that must be whipped and beheaded are NOT my "poor brothers and sisters". I know what they were reading in their synagogues before 9/11. Do you? I know 9/11 was timed to coincide with their new year and their leaders' planned take-over of America. I knew it ahead of time. I have had a lot of time to think about this and get my dander up, thank you. They think, because their "sages" have brainwashed them, that America is their Zion, and Christians are Amalekites that need to be destroyed totally this time, as they stand in their way of taking over "their" Promised Land. They have persecuted the church for 2,000 years, and project their guilt onto the church. The most I can do is pray for them that they might come out of their hate-filled religion and get on board with the rest of humanity. I'd like to see more of them stand with Michael Hoffman, Henry Makow, and a few others to expose the light on the darkness that is Talmudism. I want to see fewer of them stand and wail to the TV cameras as they are being removed from the land they brutally stole from the Palestinians: "Has the world no pity???" Where was their pity when Palestinians were being slaughtered and their homes stolen? Where was their pity when Rachel Corrie was crushed by their bulldozers? Nothing. Not a peep from the "poor brothers and sisters". Where is their pity for Christian America, this country that took them in, contrary to OUR founding principles, that has been attacked from within, from every angle, by THEIR hordes? [ http://home.aol.com/TestOath /08theocracy.htm . I have read the First Charter of Virginia 1606. Have you? This country was founded in the name of Jesus Christ at Cape Henry, 1607. It is the Promised Land for CHRISTIANS - Ezekiel 34:11-13/John 10. The "Jews" (Rev. 2:9;3:9) have been trying to usurp us from the beginning.]

I will not sit here and be silent while they or their "rich" leaders try to kill my children or finish off their task of making us and the whole world their slaves. I will not be silent while I watch my father and the hundreds of thousands of other Veterans that were maimed and killed "in their service" [their "sages" tell them that everything that happens is for the benefit of the Jewish people) have their sacrifice treated with contempt by our JEWISH leaders. I will not be silent while they preach hatred for Christians from their tax-payer supported Holocaust museum WHICH THEY RECEIVED BEFORE THE WWII VETS LIKE MY FATHER GOT THEIRS AS A BELATED EFFORT FOR WHICH THEY, THE VETS, WERE REQUESTED TO FUND. I will not be silent as long as there is no Holocaust museumm to commemorate the TENS OF MILLIONS OF CHRISTIANS that were brutally murdered by JEWISH THUGS IN COMMUNIST RUSSIA. I WILL NOT BE SILENT WHILE THEY ATTEMPT TO DO IN AMERICA TO MY CHILDREN WHAT THEY DID IN RUSSIA. I WILL NOT BE SILENT WHILE THEY PREPARE CONCENTRATION CAMPS FOR NOT THE MEXICANS, THEIR FIFTH COLUMN, BUT FOR CHRISTIANS, PATRIOTS, AND THOSE WHO REFUSE TO BE THEIR SLAVES. I WILL NOT BE SILENT WHILE THEY RAISE UP MORE LIKE THEIR GENERAL SHERMAN WHO RAPED, BURNED, MURDERED, AND PILLAGED HIS WAY THROUGH THE SOUTH. I WILL NOT BE SILENT WHILE THEY PARADE THEIR HOLOCAUST [PERPETRATED BY THEIR OWN LEADERS] AROUND TO STIFLE ANY DISSENT REGARDING THEIR CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY. I WILL NOT BE SILENT WHILE THEY AUCTION OFF OUR LIVES, PROPERTY, AND HONOR TO THE HIGHEST BIDDER. I WILL NOT BE SILENT WHILE THEIR ADL, AND SPLC TRY TO STIFLE MY RIGHT TO PREACH THE GOSPEL BECAUSE IT OFFENDS THEM, AND STANDS IN THE WAY OF THEM ACHIEVING THEIR 3,000 YEAR GOAL OF WORLD-WIDE LUCIFERIAN-JEWISH SUPREMACY. When they have the decency to admit the crimes their people have committed against others, when they condemn what their Jewish leaders are doing in America and around the world, I will WHOLE-HEARTEDLY embrace them as brothers and sisters. In the meantime, I find them for the most part, to be self-absorbed people who are, in the however-many thousands of years THEY were first given the commandment to LOVE THEIR NEIGHBORS, complete failures in that regard, and who continue to be, as the Bible points out, SPOTS IN OUR FEASTS OF CHARITY.

You say you are a truthseeker. Where are you looking? Have you tried the Bible?

Isa 58:1 Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins.

http://www.bluelette rbible.org/kjv/Isa/Isa058.html#1

1Cr 10:21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.

Psa 94:21 They gather themselves together against the soul of the righteous, and condemn the innocent blood.

2Cr 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

2Cr 6:15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

2Cr 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

2Cr 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean [thing]; and I will receive you,

2Cr 6:18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom [is] as the sand of the sea. Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

1Ti 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

I KNOW the rich are the main enemy. I have posted about the monied powers for years, and there are disproportionally many "Jews" among them. But all it takes for their evil to triumph is for people, ANY people, to be silent. I won't be one of those who is. Jesus Christ is coming again, and He is going to judge each and every one of us. You can be co-dependent in their apostasy and stand by while they are condemned to death, or you can Cry Aloud, and pray that some of them will see the error of their ways and be saved.

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Eze 3:17 Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me. Eze 3:18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked [man] shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand. Eze 3:19 Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.

In the words of Paul, my hands are clean.

AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt  posted on  2006-05-11   21:09:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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