See other Dead Constitution Articles
Title: NSA has massive database of Americans' phone calls
Source:
USA Today
URL Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/20 ... edatabaseofamericansphonecalls
Published: May 11, 2006
Author: Leslie Cauley
Post Date: 2006-05-11 09:50:46 by Eoghan
Ping List: *Israeli Espionage*
Keywords: None
Views: 2880
Comments: 179
The National Security Agency has been secretly collecting the phone call records of tens of millions of Americans, using data provided by AT&T, Verizon and BellSouth, people with direct knowledge of the arrangement told USA TODAY. The NSA program reaches into homes and businesses across the nation by amassing information about the calls of ordinary Americans - most of whom aren't suspected of any crime. This program does not involve the NSA listening to or recording conversations. But the spy agency is using the data to analyze calling patterns in an effort to detect terrorist activity, sources said in separate interviews. QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS: The NSA record collection program "It's the largest database ever assembled in the world," said one person, who, like the others who agreed to talk about the NSA's activities, declined to be identified by name or affiliation. The agency's goal is "to create a database of every call ever made" within the nation's borders, this person added. For the customers of these companies, it means that the government has detailed records of calls they made - across town or across the country - to family members, co-workers, business contacts and others. The three telecommunications companies are working under contract with the NSA, which launched the program in 2001 shortly after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, the sources said. The program is aimed at identifying and tracking suspected terrorists, they said. The sources would talk only under a guarantee of anonymity because the NSA program is secret. Air Force Gen. Michael Hayden, nominated Monday by President Bush to become the director of the CIA, headed the NSA from March 1999 to April 2005. In that post, Hayden would have overseen the agency's domestic call-tracking program. Hayden declined to comment about the program. The NSA's domestic program, as described by sources, is far more expansive than what the White House has acknowledged. Last year, Bush said he had authorized the NSA to eavesdrop - without warrants - on international calls and international e-mails of people suspected of having links to terrorists when one party to the communication is in the USA. Warrants have also not been used in the NSA's efforts to create a national call database. In defending the previously disclosed program, Bush insisted that the NSA was focused exclusively on international calls. "In other words," Bush explained, "one end of the communication must be outside the United States." As a result, domestic call records - those of calls that originate and terminate within U.S. borders - were believed to be private. Sources, however, say that is not the case. With access to records of billions of domestic calls, the NSA has gained a secret window into the communications habits of millions of Americans. Customers' names, street addresses and other personal information are not being handed over as part of NSA's domestic program, the sources said. But the phone numbers the NSA collects can easily be cross-checked with other databases to obtain that information. Don Weber, a senior spokesman for the NSA, declined to discuss the agency's operations. "Given the nature of the work we do, it would be irresponsible to comment on actual or alleged operational issues; therefore, we have no information to provide," he said. "However, it is important to note that NSA takes its legal responsibilities seriously and operates within the law." The White House would not discuss the domestic call-tracking program. "There is no domestic surveillance without court approval," said Dana Perino, deputy press secretary, referring to actual eavesdropping. She added that all national intelligence activities undertaken by the federal government "are lawful, necessary and required for the pursuit of al-Qaeda and affiliated terrorists." All government-sponsored intelligence activities "are carefully reviewed and monitored," Perino said. She also noted that "all appropriate members of Congress have been briefed on the intelligence efforts of the United States." The government is collecting "external" data on domestic phone calls but is not intercepting "internals," a term for the actual content of the communication, according to a U.S. intelligence official familiar with the program. This kind of data collection from phone companies is not uncommon; it's been done before, though never on this large a scale, the official said. The data are used for "social network analysis," the official said, meaning to study how terrorist networks contact each other and how they are tied together. Carriers uniquely positioned AT&T recently merged with SBC and kept the AT&T name. Verizon, BellSouth and AT&T are the nation's three biggest telecommunications companies; they provide local and wireless phone service to more than 200 million customers. The three carriers control vast networks with the latest communications technologies. They provide an array of services: local and long-distance calling, wireless and high-speed broadband, including video. Their direct access to millions of homes and businesses has them uniquely positioned to help the government keep tabs on the calling habits of Americans. Among the big telecommunications companies, only Qwest has refused to help the NSA, the sources said. According to multiple sources, Qwest declined to participate because it was uneasy about the legal implications of handing over customer information to the government without warrants. Qwest's refusal to participate has left the NSA with a hole in its database. Based in Denver, Qwest provides local phone service to 14 million customers in 14 states in the West and Northwest. But AT&T and Verizon also provide some services - primarily long-distance and wireless - to people who live in Qwest's region. Therefore, they can provide the NSA with at least some access in that area. Created by President Truman in 1952, during the Korean War, the NSA is charged with protecting the United States from foreign security threats. The agency was considered so secret that for years the government refused to even confirm its existence. Government insiders used to joke that NSA stood for "No Such Agency." In 1975, a congressional investigation revealed that the NSA had been intercepting, without warrants, international communications for more than 20 years at the behest of the CIA and other agencies. The spy campaign, code-named "Shamrock," led to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA), which was designed to protect Americans from illegal eavesdropping. Enacted in 1978, FISA lays out procedures that the U.S. government must follow to conduct electronic surveillance and physical searches of people believed to be engaged in espionage or international terrorism against the United States. A special court, which has 11 members, is responsible for adjudicating requests under FISA. Over the years, NSA code-cracking techniques have continued to improve along with technology. The agency today is considered expert in the practice of "data mining" - sifting through reams of information in search of patterns. Data mining is just one of many tools NSA analysts and mathematicians use to crack codes and track international communications. Paul Butler, a former U.S. prosecutor who specialized in terrorism crimes, said FISA approval generally isn't necessary for government data-mining operations. "FISA does not prohibit the government from doing data mining," said Butler, now a partner with the law firm Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld in Washington, D.C. The caveat, he said, is that "personal identifiers" - such as names, Social Security numbers and street addresses - can't be included as part of the search. "That requires an additional level of probable cause," he said. The usefulness of the NSA's domestic phone-call database as a counterterrorism tool is unclear. Also unclear is whether the database has been used for other purposes. The NSA's domestic program raises legal questions. Historically, AT&T and the regional phone companies have required law enforcement agencies to present a court order before they would even consider turning over a customer's calling data. Part of that owed to the personality of the old Bell Telephone System, out of which those companies grew. Ma Bell's bedrock principle - protection of the customer - guided the company for decades, said Gene Kimmelman, senior public policy director of Consumers Union. "No court order, no customer information - period. That's how it was for decades," he said. The concern for the customer was also based on law: Under Section 222 of the Communications Act, first passed in 1934, telephone companies are prohibited from giving out information regarding their customers' calling habits: whom a person calls, how often and what routes those calls take to reach their final destination. Inbound calls, as well as wireless calls, also are covered. The financial penalties for violating Section 222, one of many privacy reinforcements that have been added to the law over the years, can be stiff. The Federal Communications Commission, the nation's top telecommunications regulatory agency, can levy fines of up to $130,000 per day per violation, with a cap of $1.325 million per violation. The FCC has no hard definition of "violation." In practice, that means a single "violation" could cover one customer or 1 million. In the case of the NSA's international call-tracking program, Bush signed an executive order allowing the NSA to engage in eavesdropping without a warrant. The president and his representatives have since argued that an executive order was sufficient for the agency to proceed. Some civil liberties groups, including the American Civil Liberties Union, disagree. Companies approached The NSA's domestic program began soon after the Sept. 11 attacks, according to the sources. Right around that time, they said, NSA representatives approached the nation's biggest telecommunications companies. The agency made an urgent pitch: National security is at risk, and we need your help to protect the country from attacks. The agency told the companies that it wanted them to turn over their "call-detail records," a complete listing of the calling histories of their millions of customers. In addition, the NSA wanted the carriers to provide updates, which would enable the agency to keep tabs on the nation's calling habits. The sources said the NSA made clear that it was willing to pay for the cooperation. AT&T, which at the time was headed by C. Michael Armstrong, agreed to help the NSA. So did BellSouth, headed by F. Duane Ackerman; SBC, headed by Ed Whitacre; and Verizon, headed by Ivan Seidenberg. With that, the NSA's domestic program began in earnest. AT&T, when asked about the program, replied with a comment prepared for USA TODAY: "We do not comment on matters of national security, except to say that we only assist law enforcement and government agencies charged with protecting national security in strict accordance with the law." In another prepared comment, BellSouth said: "BellSouth does not provide any confidential customer information to the NSA or any governmental agency without proper legal authority." Verizon, the USA's No. 2 telecommunications company behind AT&T, gave this statement: "We do not comment on national security matters, we act in full compliance with the law and we are committed to safeguarding our customers' privacy." Qwest spokesman Robert Charlton said: "We can't talk about this. It's a classified situation." In December, The New York Times revealed that Bush had authorized the NSA to wiretap, without warrants, international phone calls and e-mails that travel to or from the USA. The following month, the Electronic Frontier Foundation, a civil liberties group, filed a class-action lawsuit against AT&T. The lawsuit accuses the company of helping the NSA spy on U.S. phone customers. Last month, U.S. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales alluded to that possibility. Appearing at a House Judiciary Committee hearing, Gonzales was asked whether he thought the White House has the legal authority to monitor domestic traffic without a warrant. Gonzales' reply: "I wouldn't rule it out." His comment marked the first time a Bush appointee publicly asserted that the White House might have that authority. Similarities in programs The domestic and international call-tracking programs have things in common, according to the sources. Both are being conducted without warrants and without the approval of the FISA court. The Bush administration has argued that FISA's procedures are too slow in some cases. Officials, including Gonzales, also make the case that the USA Patriot Act gives them broad authority to protect the safety of the nation's citizens. The chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Sen. Pat Roberts (news, bio, voting record), R-Kan., would not confirm the existence of the program. In a statement, he said, "I can say generally, however, that our subcommittee has been fully briefed on all aspects of the Terrorist Surveillance Program. ... I remain convinced that the program authorized by the president is lawful and absolutely necessary to protect this nation from future attacks." The chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, Rep. Pete Hoekstra, R-Mich., declined to comment. One company differs One major telecommunications company declined to participate in the program: Qwest. According to sources familiar with the events, Qwest's CEO at the time, Joe Nacchio, was deeply troubled by the NSA's assertion that Qwest didn't need a court order - or approval under FISA - to proceed. Adding to the tension, Qwest was unclear about who, exactly, would have access to its customers' information and how that information might be used. Financial implications were also a concern, the sources said. Carriers that illegally divulge calling information can be subjected to heavy fines. The NSA was asking Qwest to turn over millions of records. The fines, in the aggregate, could have been substantial. The NSA told Qwest that other government agencies, including the FBI, CIA and DEA, also might have access to the database, the sources said. As a matter of practice, the NSA regularly shares its information - known as "product" in intelligence circles - with other intelligence groups. Even so, Qwest's lawyers were troubled by the expansiveness of the NSA request, the sources said. The NSA, which needed Qwest's participation to completely cover the country, pushed back hard. Trying to put pressure on Qwest, NSA representatives pointedly told Qwest that it was the lone holdout among the big telecommunications companies. It also tried appealing to Qwest's patriotic side: In one meeting, an NSA representative suggested that Qwest's refusal to contribute to the database could compromise national security, one person recalled. In addition, the agency suggested that Qwest's foot-dragging might affect its ability to get future classified work with the government. Like other big telecommunications companies, Qwest already had classified contracts and hoped to get more. Unable to get comfortable with what NSA was proposing, Qwest's lawyers asked NSA to take its proposal to the FISA court. According to the sources, the agency refused. The NSA's explanation did little to satisfy Qwest's lawyers. "They told (Qwest) they didn't want to do that because FISA might not agree with them," one person recalled. For similar reasons, this person said, NSA rejected Qwest's suggestion of getting a letter of authorization from the U.S. attorney general's office. A second person confirmed this version of events. In June 2002, Nacchio resigned amid allegations that he had misled investors about Qwest's financial health. But Qwest's legal questions about the NSA request remained. Unable to reach agreement, Nacchio's successor, Richard Notebaert, finally pulled the plug on the NSA talks in late 2004, the sources said.
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#140. To: Jethro Tull (#137)
He's a renter. He had a lease on the WTC. Doesn't mean he knew sqaut about demolition. As I said, prove it is demo slang. Gimme a link to a demolition website where they list their terminology.
just don't deal well with what I see as a lack of critical thought. Either a vast conspiracy or Bush is telling the truth. ROTFLOL! Pot>Kettle Black.
Pray you will never know, the hell where youth and laughter go - Siegfried Sassoon. Ypres, Autumn 1914.
If you can find the daily DJIA from say 9-09-2001 to 9-13-2001, then post it. But unless I'm mistaken, it's also not the DJIA that's in question, but only of certain particular stocks, I think mostly transporation based, not even industrial.
Have you listened to what he said?
Eliminating the impossible, 9-11 was an inside job, in no uncertain terms. A larger repeat of the Viet Nam War profiteering. I remember too well.
No. Either there was a vast conspiracy of untold thousands, or it was a bunch of hijackers slamming planes into buildings. ROTFLOL indeed. Too bad you still haven't seemed to have understood the punchline.
Ok... find the charts themselves. Post a link.
I just don't deal well with what I see as a lack of critical thought. Either the government spent billions of dollars and thousands of man hours covertly pulling off the biggest coup in history, while not being able to so much as hide it's own incompetance every where else, or it happened exactly as it appeared. Occam again. Nor do I.. Now re the $$.. have you read anything by Indira Singh or Sibel Edmonds.. what they have said where the $$ came from to fund 9/11??? Not the government exactly.. What changed my mind re 9/11 was when I read the Northwoods documents.. it put doubt in my mind.. it was then I began to use critical thought regarding the events.. read everything both pro and con all sides and stripes re 9/11.. some I dismissed as nonsense others I couldnt ignore.. so it's not that I'm some KOOK as the RW detractors try to depict those that disagree with the official story.. I arrived at my way of thinking in the exact way you have said, utilizing critical thought..inductive and deductive reasoning.
"The thing worse than rebellion is the thing that causes rebellion." Frederick Douglass
Arguing about who said what and what it might mean when there is video, picture, and eyewitness evidence that overwhelmingly points to a controlled demolition? If you can’t trust your own eyes, ears, and numerous eyewitnesses, but will trust the government’s fairytale version of what happened that day, then you might as well be Baghdad Bob, because you make about as much sense as him.
God is always good! ROTFLOL! You are funny. Arrogant, stupid, and condescending while convinced of your superiority. Explain it to us, o knowledgeable one. So you don't think Bush is telling the truth. Bully for you. I like this limited hangout angle you have. Sounds familiar.
Pray you will never know, the hell where youth and laughter go - Siegfried Sassoon. Ypres, Autumn 1914.
Eliminating the improbable, the silly, and the downright WRONG, it was Jihadi's slamming airplanes into big friggin' buildings. Further evidence suggests the Intel community knew it was going to happan and let it. That should be more than enough conspiracy for anyone, easier to prove, and doesn't require "elves and unicorns". Or would that be "demo crews working covertly for months with tons of C-4 without anyone noticing"....
I agree that in order for 911 to be pulled of by a covert government operation, a huge endeavor it would be. I remember one person arguing that it couldn't possibly be a government operation just because the government isn't capable of pulling something like this off. I think that's one of the best reasons to be skeptical of alternative theories. Which makes WTC7 even more of a mystery.
demolish - verb demolishes, demolished, demolishing - 1. To pull or tear down (a building, etc).
You are entitled to your opinion. Others have had the same one over the years. I'll let you know if you come up with anything remotely new or interesting.
Thanks, aristeides - considering that the 9/11 Commission itself admitted that the trades were "unusual" I don't see that we should be faulted for wondering what prompted this behavior at this point in time.
"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."
Now consider what you just said here.. in another post you said "spent billions of dollars and thousands of man hours covertly pulling off the biggest coup in history".. now tell me .. are you saying that jihadi's spent billions of dollars and thousands of man hours and can believe that a man in a cave with limited access could pull this off .. ??
"The thing worse than rebellion is the thing that causes rebellion." Frederick Douglass
Don't bother. You spout recycled, rehashed crap with tactics that are blatantly transparent. Deflect and Deny, Disparage and Distract.
Pray you will never know, the hell where youth and laughter go - Siegfried Sassoon. Ypres, Autumn 1914.
Yeah, it sounds familiar all right. It's like they are all reading from the same script. Ignoring the evidence that points to something that makes them uncomfortable, won't change the evidence.
God is always good! That is "demolish". Try again... From your own conspiracy website... http:// 911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/pullit.html It is clear that the case for Silverstein's admitting demolition is extremely weak. The common assertion that "pull" is industry slang for demolition lacks support. A Google search for the term "pull" in relation to controlled demolition fails to return uses of "pull" meaning demolition outside of the widely circulated story of Silverstein's admission on 9/11 conspiracy sites. See the analysis on http://wtc7.net. Even if "pull" were industry slang for demolition, there would be no reason to expect Silverstein to know this. The above quote by a Ground Zero worker about pulling Building 6 is not evidence that "pull" means controlled demolition, since he was apparently referring to using cables to literally pull down portions of the building.
Nice attempt at giving a "conservative" patina to your arguments. The only thing a government is "competant" to do is deceive, rob, imprison, and murder people. They did an absolutely "bang-up" job on 9-11.
"Expect the government to lie to you."
Apparently from what Aristeides posted (which I've seen before) the link is right in the 9/11 Commission report. They themselves apparently commented on this unusual trading.
"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."
So that's not a photo of the SE side of WTC 7 on 9-11? Just say that, and give us your proof---don't deny and deflect, or I'm going to conclude you're just here to disrupt.
"Expect the government to lie to you."
Really? But you massive conspiracy believers have the silver spoon of absolute truth up your asses? And what are you doing now? Deflecting this thread from its original topic. Denying that million pound airplanes could drop a million ton building and that it had to be a demo job. Disparaging me, my intellect, and anything else I post. Continue to distract by making the same idiot assertions about me. Yeah... you got it down pat alright. I'll leave you all to it. I've pretty much had enough of this bullshit. If I wanted to talk to a bunch of conspiracy nuts, I'd hang my hat back over at LibertyForum.
Adios, friend. Time is too short.
You have brought up the concept of "massive" - nice tactic but ineffective here. Too simplistic and emotion laden, a big red button to push to cause a natural recoil away from something so outlandish. Now you give yourself away; a marked tendency amongst supporters of the party line seems to be an anal obsession, often spewed out when some kind of tipping point is reached. Dunno why exactly , but when that point is reached, psycho sexual innuendo and insults seem to proliferate. BTW, you still haven't listed all times you've spoken on a cellphone while flying. ROTFLOL! Whaddya expect?
Pray you will never know, the hell where youth and laughter go - Siegfried Sassoon. Ypres, Autumn 1914.
http:// http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/pullit.html I see you don't have a problem cherry-picking info at our "conspiracy" sites. As you pointed out, the photo of WTC 7's southeast face on 9-11 linked at post #110 was also from that "conspiracy site." So let me ask for the third time: is that photo not what it purports to be? If not, cite your contentions and proof. If it is, show us the 20 story hole that was supposed to be enough to bring it down.
"Expect the government to lie to you."
LOL You don't know what "circular logic" means, do you?
"Expect the government to lie to you."
Actually I have heard that it didn't really require that many people who knew everything, only a few. Top-level people had to know as much as they needed to know to pull off 9/11, but others were only following orders and didn't need to know anything other than what they were told to do. The military and CIA agents could pull something like this off, the government by itself couldn't, but since they control the top generals in the military and the leaders of the CIA, it wasn't a problem. It has been speculated that no more than about 10-20 people had to know what was really going on that day to pull off 9/11, everyone else just did their jobs as told and had no idea they were part of the biggest attack against Americans on American soil ever.
God is always good! And for someone complaining that someone else "hijacked" the thread, and that people are being rude to him, he's certainly lustily gone along with the "hijack," and appears to believe that "having a personality like the ugly side of a battle-ax" is enough to excuse his own lack of decorum.
"Expect the government to lie to you."
Excuse me....! Obvious propaganda claims aside: 1. There is no documented record of the purported 9-11 terrorists making a plane reservation. If so, there would be a “record locator,” complete with details. 2. There is no documented record of the purported 9-11 terrorists buying or using a ticket. (IDs required) 3. There is no hard-copy of a printed ticket ‘copy.’ 4. There is no record of the purported 9-11 terrorists on any of the passenger manifests, with all legitimate passengers being accounted for. 5. There is no record of the purported 9-11 terrorists in the autopsies. 6. There is not as much as a suggestion that the purported 9-11 terrorists had the needed pilot skills - but rather the contrary. 7. At least seven of the purported 9-11 terrorists are known to be still alive - with no questions being asked. 8. There is no documentation (per the FBI [Mueller] to link the purported 9-11 terrorists to the events of the day! 9. The presented pictures of the 9-11 hijackers don't match the purported terrorists. 10. There is no viable evidence of a plane crash at the 9-11 Pentagon or in Pennsylvania - versus salted wreckage pieces. In the case of the Pentagon, they were even the wrong color! 11. The purported “on board” accounts of the 9-11 flights consistently fail to suggest ‘standard’ flight crew hijacking actions, versus “psyops” victimization of the passengers. Four flights can’t be totally lacking in evidence of the flight crew hijack strategies. 12. A stopwatch says that THREE buildings at the WTC came down as controlled demolition. Add the video captures of the sequenced blasts. 13. There is no way to account for the purported WTC ‘collapse’ temperatures of the 'official' line. 14. The White House did their best to block a legitimate investigation of 9-11. 15. For all the failures, no official has been punished for 9-11. (with trivia such as a general who had an affair being sacked, in the background.) 16. There were no WMDs. Saddam has been long deposed. Iraq had no possible connection to 9-11. For all the horrors of the USA-made Saddam, his crimes are dwarfed by the tribal genocide of Africa. How did Saddam become the ‘humanitarian’ priority? 17. Bush's invasions continue as War Crimes! 18. With the Mexican border held wide open by the White House, how much “terror” can be factual? It’s simply not possible, in the absence of treason/sedition. (Quite reasonably possible – and consistent with the Bush Cabal War Crimes!) How should America intelligently view the Bush myth of “Terror?” What’s good for Halliburton is good for America. What a cause – ala the Viet Nam war!
Looks like the guy "opus'd" with his last post at #162. He hasn't replied to any posts for a while now, because I don't think he can. I think he's a disruptor who's about as competent as he says the government is.
"Expect the government to lie to you."
Yeah, it did get abruptly quiet. He needs to get further instructions from the associated handlers. Funny, how that works. They'll be back; watch for the cleverness in the associated "weasel language." You'll se a reference in which comebody 'alludes' to the propaganda, without citing anything which approaches factual documentation. It's a constant, when there is no supporting "truth."
My sense about him exactly!
"Expect the government to lie to you."
and not one thread on FR about Big Brother 1984 Bush
The mind once expanded by a new idea never returns to its' original size
Son of a gun. He's still there at Free Republic!!!! http://www.freerepublic.com/~deadcorpse/index?U=http%3A%2F% 2Fwww.freerepublic.com%2Ffocus%2Ff-news%2Fbrowse Still posting there too as of today. We've been had, merry band of 4'ers. Wait'll he takes them home and they find out he's a "Dead Corpse"...
"Expect the government to lie to you."
looks like someone from the "Friday night Babes, party, and Booze" Thread.
The mind once expanded by a new idea never returns to its' original size
Here is a photo of the southeast wall of 7 taken after the collapse of the Twin Towers on 9-11. Show us where the 20 story hole was that would bring down 7. I can't even see one story gone---can you?Link to photo Shoot. Well, I apologize: you try to link to the photo and the site just redirects you to its welcome page. Try pasting this URL in your address bar and then look at the photo: http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/photos/docs/3073.jpg
"Expect the government to lie to you."
Yeah, right. I've heard that crap before. You're really a simple minded buffoon, aren't you. See ya, BOZO.
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue! Sen. Barry Goldwater
The other shoe is about to drop. Soon we will see many of those who were complicit coming out to tell their stories and try to save their own hides. "Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue! Sen. Barry Goldwater
chris, "Dead Corpse" delinked his "pimp" photo at post #174 above from his FR homepage, a photo which portrayed himself as a "pimp" with "bling" accompanied by two women who I take it are supposed to be filles de joie, and put up the above obscene gif instead. You may want to remove the image.
"Those who make peaceful change impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ----John F. Kennedy
LS is a builder. He knows these terms.
#141. To: Dead Corpse (#133)
Either the government spent billions of dollars and thousands of man hours covertly pulling off the biggest coup in history, while not being able to so much as hide it's own incompetance every where else, or it happened exactly as it appeared.
#142. To: Dead Corpse (#125)
#143. To: Dead Corpse (#140)
#144. To: Dead Corpse, All (#133)
#145. To: swarthyguy (#141)
Either a vast conspiracy or Bush is telling the truth.
#146. To: Neil McIver (#142)
But unless I'm mistaken, it's also not the DJIA that's in question, but only of certain particular stocks, I think mostly transporation based, not even industrial.
#147. To: Dead Corpse (#133)
I have a personality like the ugly side of a battle axe. Always have. Despite that, I'm a rather contented and happy beast.
#148. To: Dead Corpse (#127)
Also, there is no verification, nor sources I can find, that "pull it" is demolition slang to begin with.
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02] More and more of our imports come from overseas. - George W. Bush
#149. To: Dead Corpse (#145)
#150. To: SKYDRIFTER (#144)
Eliminating the impossible, 9-11 was an inside job, in no uncertain terms.
#151. To: Dead Corpse (#133)
Either the government spent billions of dollars and thousands of man hours covertly pulling off the biggest coup in history, while not being able to so much as hide it's own incompetance every where else, or it happened exactly as it appeared.
#152. To: Dead Corpse (#145)
Pull
#153. To: swarthyguy (#149)
Arrogant, stupid, and condescending while convinced of your superiority.
#154. To: aristeides (#124)
#155. To: Dead Corpse (#150)
it was Jihadi's slamming airplanes into big friggin' buildings.
#156. To: Dead Corpse (#153)
I'll let you know
#157. To: swarthyguy (#149)
I like this limited hangout angle you have. Sounds familiar.
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02] More and more of our imports come from overseas. - George W. Bush
#158. To: Jethro Tull (#152)
#159. To: Dead Corpse (#133)
Either the government spent billions of dollars and thousands of man hours covertly pulling off the biggest coup in history, while not being able to so much as hide it's own incompetance every where else, or it happened exactly as it appeared.
#160. To: Dead Corpse (#146)
#161. To: Dead Corpse (#136)
That link goes to a conspiracy website. img src the photo...
#162. To: swarthyguy (#156)
You spout recycled, rehashed crap with tactics that are blatantly transparent.
#163. To: Dead Corpse (#158)
#164. To: Dead Corpse (#162)
you massive conspiracy believers have the silver spoon of absolute truth up your asses?
#165. To: Dead Corpse (#158)
From your own conspiracy website...
#166. To: Dead Corpse (#135)
If they were discussing pulling back the fire crews? Yeah. Wouldn't you?
#167. To: Neil McIver (#151)
I agree that in order for 911 to be pulled of by a covert government operation, a huge endeavor it would be.
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02] More and more of our imports come from overseas. - George W. Bush
#168. To: aristeides (#132)
For someone who claims not to have studied the matter because you are convinced the government is telling the truth, you sure seem to be pulling up a lot of information very quickly.
#169. To: Dead Corpse, Christine, Zipporah, robin, Zoroaster, BTP Holdings, Arator, Brian S, A K A Stone, Steppenwolf, Bub, mugwort, bluegrass, Bill D Berger, FormerLurker, Uncle Bill, Dakmar, Flintlock, Neil McIver, tom007, aristeides, Burkeman1, Diana, (#150)
#170. To: SKYDRIFTER (#169)
#171. To: Peetie Wheatstraw, Christine, Zipporah, robin, Zoroaster, BTP Holdings, Arator, Brian S, A K A Stone, Steppenwolf, Bub, mugwort, bluegrass, Bill D Berger, FormerLurker, Uncle Bill, Dakmar, Flintlock, Neil McIver, tom007, aristeides, Burkeman1, Diana, All (#170)
#172. To: SKYDRIFTER, christine, Zipporah, robin, Zoroaster, BTP Holdings, Arator, Brian S, A K A Stone, Steppenwolf, Bub, mugwort, bluegrass, Bill D Berger, FormerLurker, Uncle Bill, Dakmar, Flintlock, Neil McIver, tom007, aristeides, Burke (#171)
He needs to get further instructions from the associated handlers.
#173. To: Peetie Wheatstraw (#172)
#174. To: Itisa1mosttoolate, SKYDRIFTER, christine, Zipporah, robin, Zoroaster, BTP Holdings, Arator, Brian S, A K A Stone, Steppenwolf, Bub, mugwort, bluegrass, Bill D Berger, FormerLurker, Uncle Bill, Dakmar, Flintlock, Neil McIver, tom007, aristeides, Burke (#173)
and not one thread on FR about Big Brother 1984 Bush
#175. To: Peetie Wheatstraw (#174)
#176. To: Dead Corpse (#110)
then you looked on the south side of 7 there had to be a hole 20 stories tall in the building, with fire on several floors.
#177. To: Dead Corpse (#61)
Occamz Razor.
#178. To: Neil McIver (#151)
I agree that in order for 911 to be pulled of by a covert government operation, a huge endeavor it would be. I remember one person arguing that it couldn't possibly be a government operation just because the government isn't capable of pulling something like this off. I think that's one of the best reasons to be skeptical of alternative theories.
#179. To: All, christine (#174)
http://home.austin.rr.com/deeperblack/Pimp.jpg
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