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Religion
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Title: Girl with Rare Disorder Barred From Communion
Source: ABC News
URL Source: http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Health/story?id=617257&page=1
Published: Mar 28, 2005
Author: I dunno
Post Date: 2005-03-28 20:44:34 by CAPPSMADNESS
Keywords: Communion, Disorder, Barred
Views: 614
Comments: 47

Mother Petitions the Vatican to Allow Daughter with Digestive Disease to Substitute Rice Wafer for Wheat Haley Pelly-Waldman, 9, has celiac disease, which makes her unable to digest wheat, even the small amount in a communion wafer. (ABCNEWS)

March 27, 2005 — Like many Catholic children, Haley Pelly-Waldman, 9, had looked forward to her first Holy Communion. It is a sacred rite of passage for all young Catholics, steeped in tradition and meaning.

Catholics believe the wine and the wafer symbolize the body and blood of Christ. When it was Haley's turn to experience her first communion, she donned a special white dress for the occasion, ready to participate in the ritual that unites Catholics around the world. But for Haley there was a difference.

Who Will Win 'The Story of My Life' Contest? Woman Who Found Finger in Chili May Sue Excerpt: 'The Three-Hour Diet' Four years ago, the New Jersey girl was diagnosed with a rare digestive disorder called celiac disease, leaving her unable to eat wheat — not even the tiny amount in the wafer at the communion table.

In order to accommodate Haley's medical condition, her priest substituted the wheat wafer with one made of rice. But little did they know, they'd just broken a church doctrine.

First Communion Doesn't Count, Says Diocese

The Pelly-Waldmans local diocese said that the eucharist wafer can only be made of wheat.

In a statement released to ABC News, the Diocese of Trenton, said, "Bread, to be valid matter for the eucharist, must be made solely of wheat."

The local diocese ruled that Haley's first communion didn't count, and reprimanded the priest who gave her that rice wafer.

Stunned by that ruling, Haley's mother, Elizabeth Pelly-Waldman, decided to challenge the church law by appealing to the Vatican.

"I am one woman questioning 2,000 years of church teaching," Pelly-Waldman said on "Good Morning America" today. "But I believe with some patience and persistence maybe perhaps we can be heard."

In her letters to the Vatican, she wrote: "It's not my understanding that Christ asked his disciples to remember him through wheat bread. … I do not believe Christ would want a child to obey a canon law that could be potentially harmful to her."

Who Will Win 'The Story of My Life' Contest? Woman Who Found Finger in Chili May Sue Excerpt: 'The Three-Hour Diet'

Controversy Strengthens Faith

Until recently, the Pelly-Waldmans found a priest who was willing to administer a rice communion wafer to Haley in secret. But with the publicity of the case growing, Elizabeth says that is becoming more difficult.

Haley told "Good Morning America" that when it comes time to take communion, "I usually just kneel down and say my prayers."

Other celiacs have dealt with similiar issues in the Catholic Church, driving one Boston family to join the Methodist Church, which does allow rice wafers during communion.

But Pelly-Waldman says she has no intention of leaving the church, and in fact, the controversy has strengthened her faith.

"I'm a practicing Catholic, and the faith of both myself and the children in the Catholic Church hasn't wavered," she said. "I belived we can most appropriately effectuate change from within the church."

The Pelly-Waldmans have so far not received a reply from the Vatican. Subscribe to *Utter Nonsense*

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#8. To: justlurking (#7)

Oh, most certainly.

If they aren't careful, they will guilt her over it to the point of hurting her faith.

Jhoffa_  posted on  2005-03-28   21:19:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: justlurking (#7)

To deny her her first communion will mean she will never be allowed to receive communion in her lifetime. Unless another church will do it.

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-03-28   21:20:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Jhoffa_ (#8)

If they aren't careful, they will guilt her over it to the point of hurting her faith.

Sure they will. Some folks get off on that crap. Makes them feel more *christian* I'll bet.

justlurking  posted on  2005-03-28   21:21:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#9)

The local diocese ruled that Haley's first communion didn't count, and reprimanded the priest who gave her that rice wafer.

That just galls me. Who the hell is he to say, "oops, it doesn't count, sorry!". The Catholic Church and their damn rules.

justlurking  posted on  2005-03-28   21:24:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: justlurking (#10)

Yeah, and fighting with them will get you no where.

She'd to better to abstain (so as not to offend their sensibilities and cause dispute) and let them lawyer this like modern day Pharasees.

Jhoffa_  posted on  2005-03-28   21:25:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: CAPPSMADNESS, JHoffa, Neil McIver (#2)

Oh I agree..........what difference should it make in the Catholic Church.

Speaking of communion, and not trying to hijack this thread at all, aren't we told by Paul that we are supposed to be discerning that these elements are, to not do it in an unworthy manner, i.e., being drunk or high on drugs....how does someone who is unconscience or mentally degranged or some other such do this, that is being able to discern the meaning?

rowdee  posted on  2005-03-28   21:27:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: justlurking (#11)

PS: Maybe is he'd just diddled her, he wouldn't have gotten a reprimand?

Jhoffa_  posted on  2005-03-28   21:27:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Jhoffa_ (#12)

Yeah, and fighting with them will get you no where.

That's why I am no longer a practicing Catholic. My hats off to her to fight it all the way up to the Pope.

justlurking  posted on  2005-03-28   21:27:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Jhoffa_ (#14)

PS: Maybe is he'd just diddled her, he wouldn't have gotten a reprimand?

EXACTLY!

justlurking  posted on  2005-03-28   21:28:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: rowdee (#13)

I am sure I have no idea at all.

Jhoffa_  posted on  2005-03-28   21:28:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: justlurking (#15)

I'd just let it go..

Then, I'd leave.

Jhoffa_  posted on  2005-03-28   21:29:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: justlurking, CAPPSMADNESS (#7)

Would it be acceptable if just a little piece of wafer was broken off, rather than the whole wheat? I am not at all familiar with her medical condition. I did have a grandson that was allergic to virtually everything but something like jello and maybe aspergus!

Really wierd. Was 12 before shots and re-introduction of various foodstuffs enabled him to eat what we all take for granted.

rowdee  posted on  2005-03-28   21:30:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: justlurking (#11)

Exactly! Man made rules that NEVER got a person a step closer to Jesus Christ, or heaven.

rowdee  posted on  2005-03-28   21:32:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: rowdee (#13)

how does someone who is unconscience or mentally degranged or some other such do this, that is being able to discern the meaning?

It is my understanding that Catholics believe that even comatose person's are aware ther somwhere and their souls know the significance of the acts of communion and last rights.

When my fater was in a "coma", he cried when given his last rights.

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-03-28   21:36:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: rowdee (#19)

I don't think she can digest wheat in any form, from my understanding of the article.

Why not just let her have a rice cake? where's the harm? it can be blesed just as easily.

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-03-28   21:38:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: rowdee (#19)

Would it be acceptable if just a little piece of wafer was broken off, rather than the whole wheat?

Apparently not.

justlurking  posted on  2005-03-28   21:39:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#22)

Why not just let her have a rice cake? where's the harm? it can be blesed just as easily.

Because it's not in their little "rule" book.

justlurking  posted on  2005-03-28   21:39:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#21)

I know virtually nothing about Catholicism; hence the question.

I'm sure thankful to the Sisters of Providence who had the hospital where Gene died. I was told that unconscience patients, or comatose patients can hear. I was encouraged to talk out anything that might need to be said, and if I felt I could handle letting go, that I could tell him that he could let go, too....that it was ok; that all would work out.

rowdee  posted on  2005-03-28   21:42:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#22)

Oh, I agree 150% with ya, Cappy..........whatever would work! Why harm a young budding person away from a life with religious meaning. Sure seems close- minded to me.

rowdee  posted on  2005-03-28   21:44:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: rowdee (#13)

I believe each of us is accountable to God according to our own conscience. Paul's words were instructions to those who could hear them. Can those who cannot hear them be held accountable? Can those without their minds choose to do good or evil?

God knows what each of us is aware of, and will deal with each of us accordingly.

Neil McIver  posted on  2005-03-28   21:46:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: rowdee (#26)

hence - why I left the church.

That and I would not confess my sins to a man when the bible says to confess your sins to God.

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-03-28   21:47:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Jhoffa_, justlurking (#18)

My hats off to her to fight it all the way up to the Pope.

I'd just let it go..

Then, I'd leave.

I think you have to enjoy fighting to take them on. Ditto for the government. Having fought the latter myself through all the legal wrangling, I can tell you that you just need to enjoy it or get some satisfaction out of fighting. Without that, it's just easier to walk away. Like I did last year.

Neil McIver  posted on  2005-03-28   21:53:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: rowdee (#19)

Would it be acceptable if just a little piece of wafer was broken off, rather than the whole wheat?

Those with wheat alergies are usually hypersensitive, so any amount is probably a bad idea.

Neil McIver  posted on  2005-03-28   21:55:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Neil McIver (#30)

Those with wheat alergies are usually hypersensitive, so any amount is probably a bad idea.

Kind of like somone with a paenut allergy eating only half of one.

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-03-28   21:56:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Neil McIver (#27)

God knows what each of us is aware of, and will deal with each of us accordingly.

Amen to that.

justlurking  posted on  2005-03-28   21:59:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Neil McIver (#30)

Thanks....I knew grandson Allen was sensitive, but obviously there has to be degrees. No doubt they are wise for refusing wheat.

rowdee  posted on  2005-03-28   22:05:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#28)

Yes.

I was amazed to see that one of the southern baptist churches told a judge to leave. The judgement going on is what I won't put up with; hence my comment early on about not getting involved with churches........all that do do and don't do stuff.

rowdee  posted on  2005-03-28   22:08:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: rowdee (#34)

not all churces are bad, Dee - I have been lucky enough in life to find a few who do preach the Word without the pleas for $$$ or the other psychobabble.

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-03-28   22:10:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: Neil McIver (#27)

Yes, I believe we are each accountable in our own way. I would suspect that those who are supposed to be flock shepherds who are doing lousy jobs, with lousy job being defined by God, will be judged much differently than one of those sheep.

Given the scenario above regarding the questioning of giving communion, it's my personal belief that much of the things done are for 'our' sensibilities, rather than what God asks. A prime example of this is a short while ago on MSNBC, Dan Abrams was talking to the doctor and he asked him point blank about this morphine business seeing as how all the hoopla is that this is 'painless'. The doctor noted that there is no pain, but that the morphine is more a 'show' for the survivors (and he didnt't use the word show--that's my word--I think his was comfort or something like that) to ease their mind or qualms about whether there is pain. He indicated this is done all the time.

rowdee  posted on  2005-03-28   22:13:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: rowdee (#36)

The doctor noted that there is no pain, but that the morphine is more a 'show' for the survivors (and he didnt't use the word show--that's my word--I think his was comfort or something like that) to ease their mind or qualms about whether there is pain. He indicated this is done all the time.

I disagree with that statement wholeheartedly. If he is talking about the use of morphine in all cases. My sister in law was in OBVIOUS horrific pain until hospice showed up with the morphine. Once the dosage and the timing became routine, there was very much a peace that came over her. Her fists unclenched, the lines of pain across her face eased, etc.

justlurking  posted on  2005-03-28   22:21:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: rowdee (#36)

but that the morphine is more a 'show' for the survivors (and he didnt't use the word show--that's my word--I think his was comfort or something like that) to ease their mind or qualms about whether there is pain. He indicated this is done all the time.

As i stated before Dee, it's called "snowing" as it helps speed up the dying process by slowing down the body's functions and respirations.

A very common procedure in hospices these days.

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-03-28   22:32:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: rowdee (#36)

The doctor noted that there is no pain, but that the morphine is more a 'show' for the survivors (and he didnt't use the word show--that's my word--I think his was comfort or something like that) to ease their mind or qualms about whether there is pain.

I have a little bit of a hard time with the thought of medications being administered for the benefit of family that the attending nurse/physician does not see as appropriate for the patient. In a case like this being watched internationally, I gotta believe they are dotting all i's and crossing all t's for not just lawsuits but certification boards, etc.

I think there has to be at least some medical basis for giving her morphine.

Neil McIver  posted on  2005-03-28   22:35:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: justlurking (#37)

I believe he was referring to withdrawal of food and water.

rowdee  posted on  2005-03-28   23:37:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#38)

I'm sure the doctor didn't use the word 'snowing'...that one would have stuck in my mind, I'm pretty sure.

rowdee  posted on  2005-03-28   23:38:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: Neil McIver (#39)

What the doctor was saying is you're at the very end of the life. When a patient is about to die, what difference does it make if you give them a medicine that is not deadly.

I can't see what the big rip is about with cancer patients being allowed to smoke POT.....especially someone who is terminal......for crying out loud, they've got a death warrant, what's a little ol joint gonna hurt? Give them lung cancer maybe? When more likely, it will help control the nausea from chemotherapy.

It's like a registered nutritionist telling my 92 year old day not to drink coffee any more.........what's gonna happen? He gonna die if he drinks it a few more years? Been drinking coffee since he was 3 years old and he should quit at this point in life? Puleeze........ :) They think they've saved the world somehow!

rowdee  posted on  2005-03-28   23:43:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: rowdee, CAPPSMADNESS (#41)

If you go to this page Scroll down to momcats3, this nurse refers to 'snowing' a patient

Zipporah  posted on  2005-03-28   23:48:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#38)

This involves the giving of a drug (like morphine) in higher and higher doses until the patient can no longer metabolize it.

Correct?

Jhoffa_  posted on  2005-03-29   5:22:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: Jhoffa_ (#44)

This involves the giving of a drug (like morphine) in higher and higher doses until the patient can no longer metabolize it.

Correct?

yes. That is basically what it is.

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-03-29   5:38:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: rowdee (#41)

I'm sure the doctor didn't use the word 'snowing'...that one would have stuck in my mind, I'm pretty sure.

That is because it's not something that they tell a patient's family. But it is a very common practice.

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-03-29   5:39:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: Jhoffa_ (#44)

All I can say on this topic, and I can't say anything else - Is maybe we should now free Dr. Kevorkian and Donald Harvey, as well as other "Angels of Death", as they also thought that they were ending thier patient's suffering.

This will most likely be my very last post on the Schiavo subject, even though it seems to creep into every thread. I understand feelings are raw on both sides - so I am not going to place salt in the wounds.

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-03-29   6:53:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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