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Immigration
See other Immigration Articles

Title: President's Middle Path Disappoints Both Sides of Sharply Divisive Immigration Issue
Source: TheNew York Times
URL Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/16/u ... 1e52a&ei=5094&partner=homepage
Published: May 16, 2006
Author: MONICA DAVEY and RALPH BLUMENTHAL
Post Date: 2006-05-16 00:34:14 by robin
Ping List: *The Border*
Keywords: None
Views: 226
Comments: 32

May 16, 2006

President's Middle Path Disappoints Both Sides of Sharply Divisive Immigration Issue

By MONICA DAVEY and RALPH BLUMENTHAL

CHICAGO, May 15 — As Jose F. watched President Bush's address from an apartment on this city's Northwest side, he shook his head fiercely at moments: at the prospect of tamper-proof identification cards for legal workers, at the many mentions of increased border security, and at what he saw, in the end, as uncertainty of the future Mr. Bush intended for illegal immigrants like himself.

"I worry about the militarization and whether this will mean more deaths on the border," said Jose F., 27, who sneaked in from Mexico nearly eight years ago and who asked that his last name not be used because he feared losing his job at a social services agency, deportation or both. "And identification cards will only make it harder to survive, and people will have to go further underground and work for cash."

In Houston, meanwhile, Louise Whiteford watched the president with equal skepticism. Ms. Whiteford, president of Texans for Immigration Reform, a group opposed to illegal immigration and founded in 1999, swiftly took issue with several of Mr. Bush's promises and accomplishments, including an increase in the Border Patrol to 12,000 agents from 9,000 since his administration took over.

"This is very inadequate," Ms. Whiteford, 76, said. "That's about the number of police in Fort Worth and Dallas." When the president said he planned to add 6,000 more by 2008, she shook her head, noting, "That's too long."

If Jose F. and Ms. Whiteford were any indication, Mr. Bush managed to disappoint people on both sides of the immigration debate on Monday night. Each side said it had hoped to hear more encouraging words over an issue that has become a showdown in Congress and on the streets of cities like Los Angeles and Chicago. Each side saw hints of an extended fight ahead.

Some supporters of tighter border restrictions said they did not approve of the way they said Mr. Bush had signaled that he wanted some of the nation's estimated 11 million illegal immigrants to become legal. On the other hand, some immigrants and their advocates said they did not agree with his clearly stated opposition to anything resembling "amnesty."

"I don't know what he is saying for someone like me," Jose F. said of the president's description of a "rational middle ground" somewhere between granting citizenship to all illegal immigrants and deporting all of them. "I have been working really hard. I have learned English. I pay taxes. I am not here in the country to bring problems."

But Ms. Whiteford, who watched the president on her 12-inch General Electric television with a rabbit-ears antenna, was on guard against anything Mr. Bush had to say about allowing illegal immigrants to legalize their status over time with a fine.

"My citizenship is not for sale," she said. "I don't like the idea that money can buy citizenship."

Ms. Whiteford grew up in Lima, Ohio, mingling happily, she said, with wartime immigrants, only to find the nation now victimized by "a form of slavery, bringing in cheap labor that the corporations want and squeezing the middle class."

She said immigrants filled no special economic niche. "I don't buy this 'jobs Americans aren't doing,' " she said. "I can't think of a job Americans aren't doing. My granddaughter runs a fishing boat in Alaska. One of my sons worked on an oil rig."

In border communities like Yuma, Ariz., however, where a local restaurant had to delay its opening repeatedly because it could not find enough employees, the president's call for immediate action on a way to bring more workers into the country legally struck a positive chord.

"We need access to a legal work force," said C. R. Waters, president of the Yuma Fresh Vegetable Association, a trade group that represents about 100 area growers. During the last harvest, Mr. Waters said, farms were badly short of labor.

"We need our borders secure," he said, "but we also have to have an available legal work force."

Because it is so difficult for employers to verify legal status, Mr. Waters said his group strongly supported measures mentioned in the president's address like biometric identification, which would make crossing the border legal and rapid for workers who wanted to commute between Mexico and the United States.

Others, though, saw little new in the president's plans.

"This seems to be a replay of every budget speech for the last 20 years," said John D. Trasvina, interim president of the Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund. "They always say they want more personnel and more technology at the border. It's a failed policy."

In San Francisco, where the president's speech was broadcast on a television above the jukebox at Los Jarritos, a popular Mexican restaurant, Dolores Reyes, an owner, disagreed with nearly every point Mr. Bush made.

Ms. Reyes said she favored amnesty and objected to the idea of deploying the National Guard to the border. "The people will still find a way because money talks," she said.

Back in Chicago, so much talk of border security sent Jose F.'s mind racing back to his own journey to a small town in Arizona after a 12-hour walk over the border. Fears of patrols were bad enough then, he said.

"I think the president needs to remember that all of these illegal people are going to have kids who vote here one day," he said. "They think we don't matter, but those kids are not going to forget who helped their parents and who didn't."

Monica Davey reported from Chicago for this article, and Ralph Blumenthal from Houston. Brenda Goodman contributed reporting from Atlanta, and Carolyn Marshall from San Francisco.

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#1. To: robin (#0)

"I think the president needs to remember that all of these illegal people are going to have kids who vote here one day," he said. "They think we don't matter, but those kids are not going to forget who helped their parents and who didn't."

Those "kids" will find themselves in court with their citizenship being challenged.

Press 1 for English. Press 2 for Deportation.

mirage  posted on  2006-05-16   0:37:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: mirage (#1)

Those "kids" will find themselves in court with their citizenship being challenged.

There won't be a USA when those kids grow up.

God is always good!
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02] More and more of our imports come from overseas. - George W. Bush

RickyJ  posted on  2006-05-16   3:26:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: RickyJ (#2)

There won't be a USA when those kids grow up.

Yes there will be. It will simply look a lot different from what it is now.

Press 1 for English. Press 2 for Deportation.

mirage  posted on  2006-05-16   3:40:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: mirage (#3)

Yes there will be. It will simply look a lot different from what it is now.

I doubt it, after the dollar crashes, this country will dissolve. It is too balkanized to remain united.

God is always good!
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02] More and more of our imports come from overseas. - George W. Bush

RickyJ  posted on  2006-05-16   6:14:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: robin (#0)

"I think the president needs to remember that all of these illegal people are going to have kids who vote here one day," he said.

I think, José, that even the president is aware by now that elections are rigged by GOP hackers, to the extent necessary to win or retain power. The same thing will happen again in November.

So he really doesn't give a flying Wallenda how your kids "think" they are going to vote. The powers that be know your niños will vote straight-ticket GOP any time they want them to.

Furthermore, Hispanics have the lowest voter turnout of any ethnic group. Always have. Probably always will.

Sam Houston  posted on  2006-05-16   6:53:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Sam Houston (#5)

I think legitimate third parties will arise soon, and the end of the Democrats/Repubicans is at end. It's happened in the past in this country, and I see no reason why it won't happen again, and soon.

I've never been one to get involved in politics, so now that it's gotten to the point I'm steamed enough to do so, that means lots of other people feel as I do.

Freeper motto: "I read, but do not understand; I write, but make no sense."

YertleTurtle  posted on  2006-05-16   6:59:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: YertleTurtle (#6)

It hasn't happened since the 1850s (when Whigs were supplanted by Republicans) and right after that the country descended into a civil war.

Sam Houston  posted on  2006-05-16   7:15:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Sam Houston (#7)

It hasn't happened since the 1850s (when Whigs were supplanted by Republicans) and right after that the country descended into a civil war.

Quite true. But there is a difference between fighting my Scots-Irish Southern ancestors, who are so tough the Romans built Hadrian's Wall to keep us in, and Mexicans, who are a joke in all ways.

Freeper motto: "I read, but do not understand; I write, but make no sense."

YertleTurtle  posted on  2006-05-16   7:29:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Sam Houston (#5)

Hispanics vote Democrat when they vote. And in CA they vote early and often.

Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism. – George Washington

"If the president made us go to war with Iraq, why doesn't he go over there and fight the war?" Christian May [6th grader]

robin  posted on  2006-05-16   10:00:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: robin (#9)

Hispanics will vote for whomever the hackers with the Diebold "source code" wish.

Sam Houston  posted on  2006-05-16   10:11:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: robin (#0)

If Jose F. and Ms. Whiteford were any indication, Mr. Bush managed to disappoint people on both sides of the immigration debate on Monday night.

Classic "understatement" ... Bush has disappointed people on all sides on all issues ... excepting Vicente Foxsteinberg !!!

------------------------------------------------------------

Kennedy Assassination ... Bush (I) did it !

9-11 ... Bush (II) did it !

"Sarah if the American people ever find out what we have done to them, they will chase us down the streets and lynch us". [George H. W. Bush to Sarah McClendon]

noone222  posted on  2006-05-16   10:16:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: mirage (#3)

Yeah, it will be the North American Union, composed of US, Mexico and Canada and the official language will likely to be Spanish as that will be the biggest percentage of the population.

"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."

mehitable  posted on  2006-05-16   10:25:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Sam Houston (#10)

Hispanics will vote for whomever the hackers with the Diebold "source code" wish.

Yep.

And even before Diebold they knocked out B-1 Bob Dornan, with a witch who admitted she had never voted and changed to her hispanic maiden name to run against him. Every witch in Congress came out to support Loretta Sanchez. When Dornan proved the election was fraudulent, Gingrich told him to STFU.

Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism. – George Washington

"If the president made us go to war with Iraq, why doesn't he go over there and fight the war?" Christian May [6th grader]

robin  posted on  2006-05-16   10:34:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: robin (#13)

I remember this - what's happened to Dornan, does anyone know? Haven't heard anything of him since his immolation by Gingrich.

"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."

mehitable  posted on  2006-05-16   10:36:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: noone222 (#11)

"Sarah if the American people ever find out what we have done to them, they will chase us down the streets and lynch us". [George H. W. Bush to Sarah McClendon]

There's still time.

Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism. – George Washington

"If the president made us go to war with Iraq, why doesn't he go over there and fight the war?" Christian May [6th grader]

robin  posted on  2006-05-16   10:38:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: mehitable (#14)

During his political career, Dornan became known for his colorful statements that some critics thought were controversial or offensive. Among his remarks:

* In a 1986 US House speech, he called Russian journalist Vladimir Posner a "disloyal, betraying little Jew who sits there on television claiming that he is somehow or other a newsman."[4]

* "Every lesbian spear chucker in this country is hoping I get defeated." - to a Los Angeles television reporter in 1992.[5]

* On a January 28, 1994 appearance on Politically Incorrect, Dornan declared it was "The Year of the Penis" due to recent events in the news. In reference to this comment, Representative Barney Frank noted "Bob Dornan isn't even rational on the House floor. You can't expect him to be rational on Politically Incorrect."[6]

* "You are a slimy coward. Go register in another party." - to fellow Republican William Dougherty after he supported Dornan's opponent in 1996.[7]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_K._Dornan

Haven't heard much from him lately, but his colorful past still speaks for him ;)

Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism. – George Washington

"If the president made us go to war with Iraq, why doesn't he go over there and fight the war?" Christian May [6th grader]

robin  posted on  2006-05-16   10:44:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: robin (#16)

I used to get a big kick out of him. He was authentic and said what he thought - no focus groups and polls for him. Our pols are so terrified that they might "offend" someone that they're incapable of taking action other than their own private theft.

"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."

mehitable  posted on  2006-05-16   10:53:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: robin (#0)

This outrageous bullshit of holding employers accountable because they offer 'tamperproof biometrically encoded ID cards' is beyond belief. Pray tell, exactly how each and every employer in the country is to have the machinery to read biometrics?

Exactly how many small businesses do they propose to put out of business? I can tell you straight up--my brother, who is a very small businessman, at present, because of a couple of stone jobs he got, has 2 people on the payroll where usually it is only l. He will have to quit--lay them off and go out of business himself.

There is no way he can put out money for some fuckin biometric reader when his mixer needs a new motor, or he needs new trowels.

Tamperproof indeed? This bullcrappy from a government that can't even keep track of a CD disk with names and social security numbers and addies? Puleeze..........

I took the task of actually reading the liar in chief's transcript. It is absolutely disgusting how he tried to give the impression that the young soldier he and laura visited who wants to be a citizen was an illegal alien who only wanted citizenship after fighting for and getting wounded for this nation. The D/F says he fought for this country for 26 years! And he came here as a boy---exactly why should we give a damn about this person--it isn't like he hasn't had the opportunity to become a citizen before now. The little bit of language the liar used suggested the young man then swore an oath and became a citizen--this is a bit hazy because he doesn't come right out and say it as such.

rowdee  posted on  2006-05-16   11:29:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: robin (#0)

And I'm finding it really, really hard to swallow the bullshit of they would be heavily fined, they would pay taxes, blah blah blah..........remember, these are people who are doing jobs 'merikans won't do.......the low wages jobs.

How in hell is somebody working as a dishwasher for $5.00 an hour gonna pay some stiff penalty? Taxes? OMG......yeah, right..........they'll just up the unearned income giveaway child tax credit.........so the taxpayer pays for it in a different way!

Will there be laws that the fed gubmint will not offer financial or other incentives to any state that prints ballots in English only? I didn't hear a word about that while he pumped out the bilgewater about learning english.

What about medical costs? How do these people pay the fines, pay taxes, house, feed, and clothe their families on $5.00 an hour jobs pay for medical costs? Oh...right.....I forgot........the black robes say we taxpayers will pick up the tab?

OK.........so will there be laws written telling the black robes to keep their fucking noses out==that this is beyond their realm of review? Nah....I didn't hear that either, nor read it.

rowdee  posted on  2006-05-16   11:35:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: rowdee (#18)

The great thing about this speech is that it PISSED OFF EVERYBODY. Right, left - nobody liked this speech. It's like the old saying - You can't serve two masters. You have to make a stand in life at some point. Bush is just in a holding pattern, trying to keep us quiet while his buddies in the senate push this guest worker crap through.

"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."

mehitable  posted on  2006-05-16   11:39:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: robin (#0)

"I think the president needs to remember that all of these illegal people are going to have kids who vote here one day," he said. "They think we don't matter, but those kids are not going to forget who helped their parents and who didn't."

Give the boy a cigar! Bingo! Ding! Ding! Ding.

And it won't take long with a minimum of ll million illegals here already. And once native borns are minoritied, the ballgame is over.....the socialist majority will vote for whatever they can take....after all, laws mean nothing to these people.

rowdee  posted on  2006-05-16   11:41:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: mehitable (#20)

no doubt.

rowdee  posted on  2006-05-16   11:45:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: robin (#0)

And another thing...........I'm sick and tired of the dumb ass saying that mexico is our friend. Friends don't dump their garbage on your lawn and smile in your face daring you to say anything.

Friends don't encourage their children to break the laws in your house. And tell you that you dare not do nothing about it.

rowdee  posted on  2006-05-16   11:56:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: rowdee (#18)

Exactly how many small businesses do they propose to put out of business?

Have you ever stood and stared at it, Morpheus? Marveled at its beauty. Its genius. Billions of people just living out their lives... oblivious ...


You know you're old when the porn starlets you liked as a kid start appearing in "mature" vids.

Tauzero  posted on  2006-05-16   12:54:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: rowdee (#23)

Friends don't dump their garbage on your lawn and smile in your face daring you to say anything.

What's the big deal about a little urine and a few empties left by the help? I find your lack of cultural understanding disturbing.


You know you're old when the porn starlets you liked as a kid start appearing in "mature" vids.

Tauzero  posted on  2006-05-16   12:57:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: RickyJ (#4)

I doubt it, after the dollar crashes, this country will dissolve. It is too balkanized to remain united.

Well then, ask yourself these questions:

Who has the guns? Who owns the land?

I guarantee its not people who are holding consular cards.

Press 1 for English. Press 2 for Deportation.

mirage  posted on  2006-05-16   13:17:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: robin (#15)

There's still time.

Mitch Robbins: Hi Curly. Killed anyone today?
Curly: The day ain't over yet...
City Slickers 1991

There was a fever over the land. A fever of disgrace, of indignity, of hunger. We had a democracy, yes, but it was torn by elements within. Above all, there was fear. Fear of today, fear of tomorrow, fear of our neighbors, and fear of ourselves.

Esso  posted on  2006-05-16   14:15:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: rowdee, All (#23)

And another thing...........I'm sick and tired of the dumb ass saying that mexico is our friend. Friends don't dump their garbage on your lawn and smile in your face daring you to say anything.

Friends don't encourage their children to break the laws in your house. And tell you that you dare not do nothing about it.

friends don't yell "Osama! Osama! Osama!" right after 9/11 when the U.S. Soccer team enters/exits the World Cup soccer field.

U.S. soccer team faces chants of 'Osama'
Mexican fans also boo national anthem during Olympic qualifier

Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism. – George Washington

"If the president made us go to war with Iraq, why doesn't he go over there and fight the war?" Christian May [6th grader]

robin  posted on  2006-05-16   14:29:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Esso (#27)

There's still time.

Mitch Robbins: Hi Curly. Killed anyone today?
Curly: The day ain't over yet...
City Slickers 1991

lol! I may have to watch that again, it's been awhile.

Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism. – George Washington

"If the president made us go to war with Iraq, why doesn't he go over there and fight the war?" Christian May [6th grader]

robin  posted on  2006-05-16   15:02:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: robin (#0)

I'm just curious, robin: have you seen any polling data on the speech last night?

"Ah Love! could you and I with Him conspire
To grasp this sorry Scheme of Things entire,
Would we not shatter it to bits---and then
Re-mould it nearer to the Heart's Desire!"
----Fitzgerald's Ruba'iyat, XCIX

Peetie Wheatstraw  posted on  2006-05-16   15:05:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Tauzero (#25)

I was thinking more of the mexican government (for one, and castro for another) as believing they can just dump their ill, illerate, and criminal elements on us to care for...and laugh their asses off at our 'compassion' in the process.

rowdee  posted on  2006-05-16   16:00:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: robin (#28)

Right.

rowdee  posted on  2006-05-16   16:11:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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