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Title: The Nine Principles of the Goddess
Source:
Sacred Texts
URL Source: http://www.sacred-texts.com/wmn/bog/bog02.htm
Published: May 20, 2006
Author: Unknown
Post Date: 2006-05-20 02:25:01 by Pandora
Keywords: None
Views: 21414
Comments: 271
Here is an interesting philosophy. I've always liked this: The Nine Principles of the Goddess 1. I acknowledge that there is one Goddess in essence, Creatrix of all existences; Her forms are infinite, She manifests Herself in our love, and we are all Her lovers. 2. Treat all beings with reciprocity, for the Goddess lives in them as well as in us. 3. Tolerate other religions and do not compel others to join the circle of the Goddess: the Goddess will draw those to Her who are ready and hear Her call. 4. Worship Her by restoring balance to Her planet. 5. Eat mostly grains, vegetables and fruits, so that there will be enough food for all; when you eat thank the Goddess, the provider of all energy. It is not forbidden to eat animal flesh in moderation, but when you do so you must thank the animal that you eat as well. 6. In the circle of the Goddess create consensus while respecting diversity of opinion. On the path of the Goddess there are many paths. 7. In your home create a sacred space for the Goddess to please Her. Meditate on the Goddess three times a day, at rising, at noon and at sundown. 8. Sexuality is Her sacrament; enjoy this gift and bless those who you share it with love and affection. Remember that overcoming jealousy is the cause of cessation of the cycle of rebirth. 9. Announce the religion of the Goddess to the world through good works, honest words and selfless acts of beauty and love.
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#1. To: Pandora (#0)
bump
'We shall no longer hang on to the tails of public opinion, or to a non-existent authority, on matters utterly unknown and strange. We shall gradually become experts ourselves in the mastery of the knowledge of the future.' ~ Wilhelm Reich
Hmm there are parts of this I do adhere to..
Whackjob.
Freeper motto: "I read, but do not understand; I write, but make no sense."
well, here is the proof in actual text. I simply must be the Anti-Goddess, there is no other logical explaination.
LOL!.. well the mind wanders here.. my 'goddess' issues are .. well rather basic.
Well, this follows one dictum that I would hold to if I were going to create a religion: Keep it simple, lest ye begin to slay one another.
I'll see your Nine Principles of the Goddess and raise you the Nine Noble Virtues of Asatru: Hospitality Also known as courtesy, hospitality is to be generous, kind, and loyal to those who enter your house or with whom you have dealings. Courage Courage is a mental state which impels an individual to accomplish some endeavor, regardless of fear and/or danger. Truth An acknowledgement, acceptance and promotion of what is. Loyalty Loyalty is the unwaivering commitment to the well being of those who are deemed worthy of such a commitment. Honor Honor is the expression of self esteem by an individual envolving the keeping of promises, the performance of duites, and the respect of other peoples value and possessions. Self Reliance Self Reliance is the ablility and desire to provide for ones self. Hardwork Also known as Industriousness, Hardwork is the willingness to provide for ones self, and ones family, by labor and effort. Perserverance Perserverance is the willingness to accomplish some goal or endeavor regardless of obstacles or failures. Discipline Discipline is the self motivaton by an individual used to accomplish goals. Good to see another Pagan around here!
I love children, but I can never finish a whole one.
Wife-swapping as the path to spiritual enlightenment and liberation, heh. These things are generally made up by deceitful people, and it shows in the disjointed construction of the "philosophy." For example, principle number one is phrased in the first person, as if this were some oath for one to recite. But then the rest are phrased in the second person, as directives or commands. I see this disjointed incoherence in most religions, but most blatantly and commonly in neopagan constructs. Number nine, of course, convicts the author, as those words are dishonest and self-serving, and because propagating fraud into the collective consciousness is a spiteful, ugly thing to do and an all-in-all bad work. Even the Book of Runes now contains a preface which acknowledges that the "meaning" of each rune was made up by the author. I think that if people who make these things up would make sure that there is a footnote or preface or something like that which informs the reader of the fictitious nature of the writings, then they might avoid the contempt of those who care about truth. Somebody just make some shit up and pretend it's some ancient religion, they have a serious smack-down coming to 'em, IMO. Steering people wrong in life.
LOL! hilarious...
And it's an inside job Sometimes religion has to be regrouped and reconstituted. My faith of Wicca is based on Goddess based religion suppressed and largely destroyed by intolerant faiths such as Christianity. If there is a need because people know the truth is still there, they are going to satisfy the religious need even if the documentation such as written history and doctrine has been largely eradicated. Let the blessings be.
The problem with these new religions is that they are not based on experience. What people fail to consider about the Bible is that the rules of the Old Testament - which Jesus also lived by and which formed the framework for his life and ministry - were created out of the actual experiences of a community of people over a period of hundreds, if not thousands of years. That's why the Bible is still referred to and the Jews are still a living people. The importance of the Bible is not so much any kind of philosophical constructs that may come through in some verses or chapters, but in the actual laws, prohibitions, restrictions, and duties that it asserts. Anyone can create some religion and say that we should all love each other, not hurt animals, not be jealous, etc, but the problem is that very few will live by those precepts. So many Christians have problems living by the precepts of Christianity as it seems to be primarily a philosophy rather than an actual way of daily life. I think people have problems when they separate the theory from actual experience and practice. I have no use for theory or philosophy myself as I think they're pretty useless for most people in the real world. It's the daily practices that matter.
"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."
Okay, I admit it. I worship the Goddess. In fact, I worship several of them! [tongue]
Unfortunately at the Council of Nicaea and in times and places, Christianity was sterilized of truths inconvenient and distasteful to religious authorities. Christianity has been made to uphold a concept of male dominated culture for example, and the Christian church would have us believe Christ didn't have a penis, or at least was so stunted emotionally he never had a wife or knew how to use his sexual equipment. I was raised Catholic, but I never ever felt an affinity for Christianity. I always sensed there was something very central to it that had been gutted from it, and it was a deeply profound relief to not let it be a bother to me anymore when I broke from it at around age thirteen.
I hear ya, "Ne'er again the burning times!" But, in fact, it isn't based on any such thing. The various paths in Wicca are do-it-yourself fictions, more akin to D and D role playing than any other neopagan construct I've seen. Having said that, I can acknowledge that making something up for yourself could be healthier than following a demonstrably destructive doctrine, but the whole Wiccan claim to some ancient pagan heritage is false. Likewise Druidry. Nevertheless, blessed be yourself, as well : )
I had the same experience because of the catholic religion. I'm not convinced catholicism is christian at all. I don't remember ever having heard one bible verse at catechism or mass nor do I ever remember hearing about God's love. It was all about the rituals of the church and worshiping of saints, the pope, and the virgin Mary from my point of view. I became aware of accepting Jesus Christ as my savior in high school through a ministry called Young Life and my subsequent bible study was at Presbyterian churches.
And it's an inside job I belong to a local Wicca group that is large, very vibrant and healthy. I see the deep need and richness of my religion constantly. I'm not sure why you mention Dungeons and Dragons in reference to Wicca, as that game is no more Wiccan in nature then GTO is a course in driving. All religions have a mortal, very human membership, and is based on their needs. And my religion fulfills my needs profoundly, and I note your criticism is common and we Wicca practitioners hear it all the time from Christians. So insecure Christians are to have to do this. Me thinks they themselves sense the core emptiness of their faith and often work to tear others down and to destroy their faiths to strengthen conscious denial of unconscious fears - much as their sister faith Islam does.
Heh, I recall confessing to a Priest in the confessional about my guilt over my newly discovered auto-erotic capabilities. Something quite natural and common to all young men. His reaction was to press me for details such as if I ever put my hand in my pocket and... need I say more? I left the booth feeling confused and irritated. If I knew then what I know now, I would have tortured that pedophile unmercifully. Celibacy is not a natural state, and it hurts that church incredibly. I would call it a Christian faith however. Regardless of some of the arcane and strange trappings, reverence of the Christ is still the central notion of that large and very dysfunctional organization.
I agree with that. But, if we're coming from a place of wrongness and ignorance, we may need some abstraction and analysis to begin to decide how to behave properly. Also, I might quibble with the semantics of your rejection of "philosophy," and assert that your philosophy is in you, part of you, and that your daily actions are an expression of your philosophy whether you intend this or not. What you seem to be rejecting is the intellectualization of philosophy. I recall from a psycology text I read once, from way way back, a clinician whose first step in therapy was to get people to generally characterize their beliefs about right and wrong and their personal philosophy, et cetera. Then then over the next few sessions get background info, establish a relationship, all that. The therapy really starts after a few weeks, when the therapist has enough information to lay out plainly the contrast between the subjects personal beliefs and the way s/he lives his/her life. Supposedly most folks have such disparities, and the reaction to having the contrast laid out for them is almost universally very, very strong. Like they go into a kind of shock and become very upset. Weeping, anger. The philosophy they espouse and believe to be true is not the philosophy by which they live their lives. By implication, they judge themselves to be "bad people." I think that for most of us, life, society and family condition us to behavior, and we "adapt" or achieve "functionality" by ignoring the schism within us.
I don't adhere to any religious dogma, but am rather a free and independent spirit who has an immense appreciation and respect for all living beings. I sense that you are the same.
laughing, Mike..no need to say more...I'm pinging JT cuz he has a similar experience. btw, have you seen the movie Heaven Help Us?
And it's an inside job Because of the pick-your-pantheon, make-it-up-as-you-go structure that has evolved in Wicca over the last 10 years or so. Very much like a role-playing game, where you give your character some powers, and make up some entities, each with various aspects and powers, then go with it. I do think that the current state of Wicca is more like a role-playing game than any other neopagan construct I've seen. Call myself a "witch" and pretend I'm an ancient martyr to intolerance. The make-it-up aspect is very blatant, yet collectively, Wiccans are the pagans least willing to explicitly acknowledge it. On a positive note, best thing I ever got from studying Wicca was an awareness of the herb Rosemary, which seems quite plain, but gets more interesting the closer you look. First real exposure to it was in one of Scott Cunningham's books around 1990 or so.
You have good gut instincts. For example, I know that intelligent, self aware species of whales and dolphins have language and culture and do not deserve the specio-centric label of ignorant beasts our species of hairless primates likes to label them with. I respect all life in general first and foremost as the most important thing to preserve and protect as well. Humans will only get to where they claim they want to go to religiously and culturally if they get over themselves and climb down their self manufactured pedestal and learn to respect themselves as one of many of Earth's species of animals. A species that is going to have a large and very cruel die off sooner then we think if we don't curb our appetite for goods and resources and bring our numbers back into the carrying capabilities of Earth's biosphere.
I see. So you are saying Wicca has to get focused to grow and have a greater impact as a religion. I can't say I disagree. But I still find your analogy invalid and incendiary. What sets off my alarm is how many fundies group us with Satanism and correlate Satanism with D+D. We do not believe in Satan, and that religion is corollary to Christianity, not us. Mentioning D+D as an analogy for us is just too close to the tools Fundies use as tools to bash and belittle us, and slander us as being in bed with a religiosity that has nothing to do with us; namely Satanism. Which is a church and religion in and of itself. I know because I've had heated debates with local Satanists and heard their mocking comments about my religion. Hope this clarifies my concerns, and where I am coming from.
Maybe because you call yourselves witches, who were historically "brides of Satan." Or, because both wicca and Satanism are neopagan constructs founded in the 20th century, largely as anti-christian alternative religions. I know, I know, it's such an unexpected surprise when you tell a Christian that you're a witch, and they get all bent outta shape about it. Anyway, there plenty of worse things than Wicca in this world, and I'm neither a Satanist or a Fundie. My criticism of Wicca is not intended as a personal attack, you seem like an okay guy to me.
You mean, those wanting to lynch and destroy Goddess based religion slandered witches as "brides of Satan." Satanism is an in yo face religion I see as having a mock the Christians aspect to it we don't. We also believe that physical pleasures are to be valued in a responsible and balanced fashion. Satanists are like the spoiled oat sowing sons and daughters of Christianity out to give their parents gray hair and sleepless nights, we are not. My group originally first met in a public room at a local bank. Fundies protested and picketed and got us removed as users of that resource. I have had to suffer fundie whines that we are Satanistic and demonic. That used to irritate and anger me, now I feel sorry for these misguided creatures and no longer give my energy away to them by arguing with them directly. We have found that being tactically proficient and end running them to speak to their target audience directly without letting them be a filter by being the information source about us themselves is very valuable. Wicca has it's growing pains, but is not going away. It's increased size and influence will force focus and definition on this faith as this growth causes increased confrontation with Christian Jihadists such as evangelicals. That's just the way it works with any religion as it grows and establishes itself in human culture.
The concept of a goddess is a satanist witch philisophy. There's only One God and the only way anyone has a chance to see him would be through Christ. This goddes crap will land you in HELL!
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
Perhaps. Time will tell. For myself, I don't feel compelled to directly proselytize in this time. Just the opposite, actually. Like principle #3 in the original post.
Here's something that I see a lot of Christians touting. There was a son of God, he was a good and virtuous person. He spread his good word, and was betrayed by his friend. He was killed for his goodness, and then, rose from the dead three days later. He appeared to his disciples, and then later ascended into heaven. Guess who I'm talking about? Zoroaster. That's right, I'm talking about Zoroaster. He lived, was a good and righteous person, and guess what? He died for his faith, and was slew by demons. THEN... Came back from the dead, appeared to his followers, and ascended. WOW... Coincedence? A lot of people have no idea how the whole religion thing works. It's funny, because pretty much every faith says the same things. Be good, Be good to your friends, family neighbors, and strangers. Don't murder, don't steal, don't lie, don't cheat, don't screw your neighbor's wife or husband, Don't prey on the weak, that sort of thing. ALL FAITHS SAY THIS. Even Satanists have a set of standards and practices. What floors me, is how one group of people tout their religion as the one true religion, when in fact all of their tenets and beliefs come from several others. This is why I know there will be no Return of Jesus. If there is, it will be televised, and be a manufactured reality where the population is duped into thinking they'll ascend into heaven, and actually be led into ovens to be culled. THAT IS RIGHT FOLKS, the end times scenario is so that they can make damned sure they can depopulate this planet. All in the name of a false God, and a False Truth. Believe whatever you want folks, because when these Rapture Monkeys get their way, you won't have to worry about which faith is right and just. You'll just be lucky to be alive when it's all over.
#2. To: gengis gandhi (#1)
#3. To: gengis gandhi (#1)
Wilhelm Reich
#4. To: Zipporah (#2)
#5. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#4)
well, here is the proof in actual text. I simply must be the Anti-Goddess, there is no other logical explaination.
#6. To: Pandora (#0)
#7. To: Pandora (#0)
#8. To: Pandora (#0)
Sexuality is Her sacrament; enjoy this gift and bless those who you share it with love and affection. Remember that overcoming jealousy is the cause of cessation of the cycle of rebirth.
#9. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#4)
I simply must be the Anti-Goddess
By the well-connected
#10. To: Rabble Rouser (#8)
"Somebody just make some shit up and pretend it's some ancient religion, they have a serious smack-down coming to 'em, IMO. Steering people wrong in life."
#11. To: Rabble Rouser (#8)
#12. To: Pandora (#0)
#13. To: mehitable (#11)
#14. To: Ferret Mike (#10)
Wicca is based on Goddess based religion suppressed and largely destroyed by intolerant faiths
#15. To: Ferret Mike (#13)
I was raised Catholic, but I never ever felt an affinity for Christianity.
By the well-connected
#16. To: Rabble Rouser (#14)
#17. To: christine (#15)
#18. To: mehitable (#11)
It's the daily practices that matter.
#19. To: Ferret Mike (#10)
#20. To: Ferret Mike, Jethro Tull (#17)
By the well-connected
#21. To: Ferret Mike (#16)
I'm not sure why you mention Dungeons and Dragons in reference to Wicca,
#22. To: Pandora (#19)
"I don't adhere to any religious dogma, but am rather a free and independent spirit who has an immense appreciation and respect for all living beings. I sense that you are the same."
#23. To: Rabble Rouser (#21)
#24. To: Ferret Mike (#23)
What sets off my alarm is how many fundies group us with Satanism
#25. To: Rabble Rouser (#24)
#26. To: Pandora (#0)
#27. To: Ferret Mike (#25)
It's increased size and influence will force focus and definition on this faith
#28. To: Pandora (#0)
 | What's that Mr. Nipples? You want me to ask the nice lady about her rack?. |
#29. To: Rabble Rouser (#27)
I am happy for your sanity in this then. ;-) Man, those screechers who scream and thump Bibles in public places are assholes. I am a political activist who has taken some on and shut them down sending them scurrying as I have developed excellent and formidable skills in doing so. Not to mention being blessed by the Goddess with a voice that would drown out a fog horn. I generally don't do so as I satisfied my curiosity to see what these people were made of, and prioritize my battles better then that. But I was highly amused that the reaction to people like me was to bring in people to accompany the screecher to hound, insult, threaten and harass the hecklers. Naturally that also did not work with me, but it was a useful indicator of just how organized and ruthless evangelicals are. I see absolutely positively no difference at all between evangelical Christians and the Taliban in Afghanistan and other Muslim fundies. If one has to go to such lengths to torture and bedevil the general population to that extent, one should see a mental health specialist, not be a public bother. ;-)
"For myself, I don't feel compelled to directly proselytize in this time. Just the opposite, actually. Like principle #3 in the original post."
#30. To: Ferret Mike (#29)
You might be interested in this: http://freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=26594&Disp=0
#31. To: Pandora (#30)
Thank you for the link. I'll peruse it as soon as I can.
#32. To: A K A Stone (#26)
No it's not. You are simply a fundamentalist Moslem or fundamentalist Christian control freak. I can't tell which and it doesn't really matter; the result is the same, i.e., you won't feel comfortable until you have foisted your medeival religion onto everyone else. Some people don't want to be smothered in your security blanket. That is why the founding fathers added the First Amendment to the Constitution - to keep people like you at bay.
The concept of a goddess is a satanist witch philisophy.
#33. To: Pandora (#32)
The first amendment "religion part" only applies to THE CONGRESS, not the states. Several states had STATE RELIGIONS THAT WERE CHRISTIAN. The founding fathers would have burnt you at the stake. They knew a witch when they saw one.
Some people don't want to be smothered in your security blanket. That is why the founding fathers added the First Amendment to the Constitution - to keep people like you at bay.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#34. To: A K A Stone (#33)
There are no states with designated state religions. There may have been in the first intial confusion, or in the two years prior to the Bill of Rights, but certainly not after things got sorted out. The religious zealots spent over one hundred years trying to pass an amendment making the US a Christian country. They failed and gave up shortly after the civil war.
Several states had STATE RELIGIONS THAT WERE CHRISTIAN.
#35. To: A K A Stone (#33)
The majority of the founding fathers were Masonic adherents. George Washington, Jefferson, and many more. They use the same symmbols and hold to the philosophy of the Enlightenment the same way the Wiccans do. Note the pentagram in the streets of DC and the Wiccan symbols on the dollar bill. The founding fathers saw that it would be necessary to keep your kind at bay and they crafted the First Amendment to do so.
The founding fathers would have burnt you at the stake. They knew a witch when they saw one.
#36. To: Pandora (#34)
The religious zealots spent over one hundred years trying to pass an amendment making the US a Christian country. They failed and gave up shortly after the civil war. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; sorted out, what the fuck you talking about? There it is plain as day. CONGRESS SHALL MAKE NO LAW... That doesn't stop a GOVERNOR or STATE LEGISLATOR from making a state religion. The United States was a "christian nation" meaning the people were almost all christians. The christians are the ones who to a great degree made this country what it was. It was only after the government took prayer out of school and other such satanist stuff that our country went down the tubes. It is satanists like yourself that are the problem. Bush is a satanist too.
There are no states with designated state religions. There may have been in the first intial confusion, or in the two years prior to the Bill of Rights, but certainly not after things got sorted out.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#37. To: Pandora (#35)
You are correct about the masons, i dont know about jefferson. Your also right about the streets in DC.
The majority of the founding fathers were Masonic adherents. George Washington, Jefferson, and many more. They use the same symmbols and hold to the philosophy of the Enlightenment the same way the Wiccans do. Note the pentagram in the streets of DC and the Wiccan symbols on the dollar bill.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#38. To: A K A Stone (#36)
There is no state that has an officially designated religion. Likewise, the Federal Government has no designated or preferred state religion. This is in accordance with the First Amendment. A governor of a state can't toss out the First Amendments. All of the Amendments were made applicable to the states in about 1920. I forget the precise case, but it was a Fourth Amendment matter. Given this, a state cannot designate a state religion.
The United States was a "christian nation" meaning the people were almost all christians. The christians are the ones who to a great degree made this country what it was.
#39. To: Pandora (#38)
A governor of a state can't toss out the First Amendments. All of the Amendments were made applicable to the states in about 1920. I forget the precise case, but it was a Fourth Amendment matter. Given this, a state cannot designate a state religion. Dont be stupid ok. First amendment says CONGRESS. CONGRESS CONGRESS CONGRESS. II DOESNT SAY STATES CANT MAKE STATE RELIGIONS. IT SAYS CONGRESS FOR THE 10TH TIME. WHAT DOES IT SAY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENTS JURISTDICTION IS....10 SQUARE MILES AND FEDERAL AREAS LIKE MILITARY BASES. SO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT CANT IMPOSE A STATE RELIGION ON US.....THE STATES ARE FREE TO DO SO. IT IS NOT THAT COMPLICATED....EVEN A THIRD GRADER CAN UNDERSTAND IT....WHATS YOUR PROBLEM?
There is no state that has an officially designated religion. Likewise, the Federal Government has no designated or preferred state religion. This is in accordance with the First Amendment.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#40. To: A K A Stone (#37)
Use google to view the symbology for Job's Daughters and then compare that to the Wiccan Symbology. I think the results will startle you. If you want more, see if you can find some of the oaths for the Job's Daughters and compare them to what is above.
You are correct about the masons,
#41. To: Pandora (#40)
I could care less if a bunch of satanist wiccans copied something christian. WICCANS ARE SATANISTS AND WILL BURN IN HELL!!! UNLESS THEY REPENT AND ACCEPT THE LIVING SON OF GOD JESUS CHRIST.
Use google to view the symbology for Job's Daughters and then compare that to the Wiccan Symbology. I think the results will startle you. If you want more, see if you can find some of the oaths for the Job's Daughters and compare them to what is above.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#42. To: Pandora, A K A Stone, little bees (#34)
This man, this hero, Abraham Lincoln -- whose legs were plenty "long enough to reach the ground" !! -- put a wise and honest end to all the silliness. Thank Goodness!
The religious zealots spent over one hundred years trying to pass an amendment making the US a Christian country. They failed and gave up shortly after the civil war.
#43. To: Rabble Rouser (#42)
Abraham Lincoln....Americas first dictator.
This man, this hero, Abraham Lincoln -- whose legs were plenty "long enough to reach the ground" !! -- put a wise and honest end to all the silliness. Thank Goodness!
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#44. To: A K A Stone (#41)
Look at the symbols and decide what got copied and what didn't. Besides, you don't know what happens after death. You only have an opinion - one that was probably formed for you by your parents.
I could care less if a bunch of satanist wiccans copied something christian.
#45. To: A K A Stone (#39)
First amendment says CONGRESS. CONGRESS CONGRESS CONGRESS. II DOESNT SAY STATES CANT MAKE STATE RELIGIONS. IT SAYS CONGRESS FOR THE 10TH TIME. You are dead wrong. Absolutely, 100% dead wrong. Use google on read up on these things before pontificating. Here is the quote from the relevant case: "....when the right of local authorities to provide free transportation for children attending parochial schools reached the Court, it adopted very restrictive language. ''The 'establishment of religion' clause of the First Amendment means at least this: Neither a STATE nor the Federal Government can set up a church. Neither can pass laws which aid one religion, aid all religions, or prefer one religion over another. NEITHER can force nor influence a person to go to or to remain away from church against his will or force him to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion. No person can be punished for entertaining or professing religious beliefs or disbeliefs, for church attendance or non-attendance. No tax in any amount, large or small, can be levied to support any religious activities or institutions, whatever they may be called, or whatever form they may adopt to teach or practice religion. Neither a STATE nor the Federal Government can, openly or secretly, participate in the affairs of any religious organizations or groups and vice versa. In the words of Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect 'a wall of separation between church and State.' 98 U.S. 145, 164 (1879).
Dont be stupid ok.
#46. To: Pandora, christine, AKAStoned (#32)
a christian: one who expects tolerance for their beliefs, while at the same time advocating intolerance for any belief other than their own. being a genius is easy.....its the morons that drag you down. its lonely at the top, but crowded as hell at the bottom.
'We shall no longer hang on to the tails of public opinion, or to a non-existent authority, on matters utterly unknown and strange. We shall gradually become experts ourselves in the mastery of the knowledge of the future.' ~ Wilhelm Reich
#47. To: Pandora (#45)
Show me in the consittution where a court case trumps the constitution. SHow me in the consittution where it says anything about courts setting precedents ant that becomes the law. You have sided with the usurpers. Do you even know what that means. Quote from the constitution (the supreme law of the land) not some corrupt judicial decision. Laws that conflict with the constitution are not laws at all (even if a "judge" says they are) and are not to be obeyed.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#48. To: A K A Stone (#36)
sorted out, what the fuck you talking about? There it is plain as day. CONGRESS SHALL MAKE NO LAW... That doesn't stop a GOVERNOR or STATE LEGISLATOR from making a state religion." Federal law supersedes state law. State law supersedes local law. You miss this important element that helps make STARE DECISIS, or case law work. No state may have a religion because the Federal government is not allowed to have an official religion. The U.S. Constitution is there to protect smaller groups from the whims and caprice of larger groups. And we adopted the Constitution because the Article of Confederation - the way government was organized prior to the adoption of the Constitution - gave too much leeway to the several states, and was proving unworkable.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;
#49. To: Ferret Mike (#48)
Go back and read the 10th amendment. THe feds only have the power given to them by the STATES. The states created the federal govt. The federal government is usurping powers it doesn't legitimately have. You support the federal takeover?
Federal law supersedes state law
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#50. To: Ferret Mike (#48)
You really sucked down that propaganda from the government school didn't you.
The U.S. Constitution is there to protect smaller groups from the whims and caprice of larger groups. And we adopted the Constitution because the Article of Confederation - the way government was organized prior to the adoption of the Constitution - gave too much leeway to the several states, and was proving unworkable.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#51. To: A K A Stone (#50)
Facts are hard to deal with are they? Your problem, not mine. You are unable to refute my post; because I am correct.
"You really sucked down that propaganda from the government school didn't you."
#52. To: Ferret Mike (#51)
What is superior the consittution or a court decision that conflicts with the constitution. Which one is really the law. First amendment only procludes CONGRESS from making state religions. Learn your history at the time there were several states with state religions. This country was created so we could be free to worship God without interferance from the government. The system you advocate is more like the USSR or CHINA. You have proved nothing.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#53. To: Ferret Mike (#51)
Congress also cant stop the free exercise of religion. As in when the states have state religions.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#54. To: A K A Stone (#52)
Constitution in particular is capitalized and you also mis-spell it by the way. You also do not use correct punctuation. You need question marks to indicate interrogatory. You need to understand history and the government of the United States far better then you do as you look like you are brandishing a knife at a gunfight here. Most concerns of the state courts involve federal statutory preemption of state and local authority. Preemption refers to the authority of the Congress under the supremacy clause of the U.S. Constitution to enact statutes that displace or replace state and local laws and powers. States cannot pick on smaller religions by giving authority of one larger religion over them. States are not allowed to become Theocracies here. It gets no more simpler then that. With all due respect, you are embarrassing yourself horribly here.
"What is superior the consittution or a court decision that conflicts with the constitution. Which one is really the law."
#55. To: A K A Stone (#53)
Spreading the Christian love around pretty thick, I see. I don't think that typing words like *witch*, *you're going to burn in hell* or *you would be burned at the stake* is any way to demonstrate the love of Christ or win souls, hearts or minds, but perhaps that is just me. I am off to church - have a happy Sunday, one and all.
#56. To: Ferret Mike (#54)
Im on my laptop. The keys arent placed as well as desktop. forgive me.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#57. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#55)
Christ said he would come back to bring a sword
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#58. To: Ferret Mike (#54)
THE FEDS ONLY HAVE POWER THAT WAS GIVEN TO THEM BY THE STATES. READ CAREFULLY AS WORDS HAVE MEANINGS. CONGRESS HAS A SET OF POWERS GIVEN TO THEM BY THE STATES. CONGRESS SHALL MAKE NO LAW......DOESN'T MEAN STATES CAN'T. CONGRESS AND THE FEDERAL LAWS ARE ONLY FOR DC. YOU KNOW THE 1O SQUARE MILE WHERE THEY HAVE EXCLUSIVE JURISDICTION. THE ONLY OTHER PLACE THE FEDERAL LAWS ARE VALID IS ON MILITARY BASES, AND POST OFFICES. THE REST IS FOR THE STATES TO DECIDE. I'VE DECIDED YOU HAVE SIDED WITH THE USURPERS.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#59. To: A K A Stone (#53)
An official religion has a chilling effect on the rights and freedom of worship - or not believe in religion - therefore no religion is given an official role in government. Government is supposed to stay clear of playing favorites. Having a state religion would open up anyone not of that religion to oppression and open discrimination because they were not of the religion tied to the government. Government is supposed to keep larger groups from picking on smaller groups. That is why no religion is official; as nothing would protect anyone not of it from the toxic and hostile whims and caprice of those of the religion with a governmental mantle of authority pervading it.
"Congress also cant stop the free exercise of religion. As in when the states have state religions."
#60. To: A K A Stone (#47)
Sure. Use google and find a case called Marbury vs. Madison. This will explain it to you. I don't have time to explain high school civics here. As I said above, the reality is that the states don't have the power to establish a state religion. As someone already noted on this thread, this was done to protect the population from people like you. Your argument here is that you don't like it and that you wish the situation was different. When you finish with this argument, the states still do not have the power to establish a state religion.
Show me in the consittution where a court case trumps the constitution. SHow me in the consittution where it says anything about courts setting precedents ant that becomes the law.
#61. To: A K A Stone (#57)
So instead of allowing Him to do as He said He would, you have decided to do it for Him? So tell me, how many souls have you won for our Lord with your tactics?
#62. To: A K A Stone (#58)
Don't yell at me with capital letters. Keep it civil. Making wrong statements louder simply does not make them right.
#63. To: Pandora (#60)
Yes the first usurption. Just because it happened long ago and set a precedent doesn't mean it is the law. Get back to the root. The constitution. If a law conflicts with it, no matter what some guy in a robe( who isn't really a citizen according to THE REAL 13th AMENDMENT) tells you. Use your own mind...the words have meaning. Dont let some judge steal your rights. FUCK THE GOVERNMENT
Use google and find a case called Marbury vs. Madison
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#64. To: Ferret Mike (#62)
Caps is to highlight it. It is not yelling. That is some gay aol saying.
Don't yell at me with capital letters. Keep it civil. Making wrong statements louder simply does not make them right.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#65. To: A K A Stone (#57)
Stone, did you ever consider founding a "Hate for Jesus" ministry? You and all the other hate filled, bigoted religions kooks could sit around and tell each other how God wanted you to torure heritics. It would be a big hit in fundie circles.
Christ said he would come back to bring a sword
#66. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#61)
So tell me, how many souls have you won for our Lord with your tactics? God said to preach the whole word...not some sugar coating of the word like saying the garden of eden is fiction. Guess what Hell and witches are in the Bible. Guess what God said they are going to hell. If you want to help someone you would inform them of it instead of letting them go to the dark side. Take a stand. Jesus said those who were luke warm would be spit out of his mouth. Me im red hot.
So instead of allowing Him to do as He said He would, you have decided to do it for Him?
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#67. To: Anonymous Dead Indian (#65)
It would be a big hit in fundie circles. You are misrepresenting what I said. Where did I say to torture anyone. that is what Bush is for not me.
You and all the other hate filled, bigoted religions kooks could sit around and tell each other how God wanted you to torure heritics.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#68. To: Pandora (#60)
This guy is too much. He is assuming that the Constitution was adopted to make worse the problems maintaining the political and social cohesion of this nation the Articles of Confederation were causing in the several states. I doubt of he has the tools to understand how case law - Stare Decisis - works; never mind understand the decision you cite - Marbury vs. Madison - and why it is a cornerstone decision of the U.S. Supreme Court. Nice try though.
"Use google and find a case called Marbury vs. Madison. This will explain it to you. I don't have time to explain high school civics here."
#69. To: Ferret Mike (#68)
You are such an ass. Show me in the constitution where it says law is determined by who has the best lawyer and how some case comes out. NOW COME ON THAT IS ASSININE.
I doubt of he has the tools to understand how case law
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#70. To: Ferret Mike (#68)
So you think case law trumps the constitution. Of commie.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#71. To: A K A Stone (#66)
You can be red hot AND dead wrong at the same time - but I think deep down you know this. How many souls have you won for Christ?
Take a stand. Jesus said those who were luke warm would be spit out of his mouth. Me im red hot.
#72. To: A K A Stone (#67)
On this thread you seemed to delight in someone being burned at the stake. I would have to comb through threads for other instances and I don't want to waste my time doing that. But how can you be a rapture monkey and not want to hurt those who don't agree with your silly, narrow view? Doesn't this come with the territory? How does the Taliban handle disagreement? How would your theocracy handle it? How did Cotton Mather handle it?
Where did I say to torture anyone. that is what Bush is for not me.
#73. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#71)
How many souls have you won for Christ? Yes you can be red hot and wrong.... I don't know how many souls I won. I thought faith came by hearing the word. How many have you won? How many have you lead astray by claiming Genesis is not true?
You can be red hot AND dead wrong at the same time - but I think deep down you know this.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#74. To: Anonymous Dead Indian (#72)
Heh, he likely believes Cotton Mather is a device invented by Eli Whitney to efficiently and quickly remove seeds from fresh picked cotton, and that the cotton gin was a judge who hung people who denied they were witches in Salem, Massachusetts. ;-)
"How did Cotton Mather handle it?"
#75. To: Anonymous Dead Indian (#72)
But how can you be a rapture monkey and not want to hurt those who don't agree with your silly, narrow view? Doesn't this come with the territory? How does the Taliban handle disagreement? How would your theocracy handle it? How did Cotton Mather handle it? I said that in times past some of these witches would have been burnt at the stake. That is a fact it happened, i neither condemed or encouraged it, i just stated a fact. Rapture monkey? I don't believe in a rapture. What people do is mix the "rapture" in with the second coming. Make two doctrines out of one. I believe in the second coming. I wouldn't believe to much propaganda against the Taliban. 911 was an inside job.
On this thread you seemed to delight in someone being burned at the stake. I would have to comb through threads for other instances and I don't want to waste my time doing that.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#76. To: Ferret Mike (#74)
Why do you hate Jesus? He gave his life freely so you could have life.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#77. To: zipporah (#0)
Do you think wiccans have their root in satanism?
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#78. To: A K A Stone (#63)
FUCK THE GOVERNMENT I told you that the US Contstitution, as it has been understood by the US Supreme Court for over a century, does not allow the states to set up a state religion. In fact, it never allowed this. I presented both the case where this interpretation is made and the case that allows the Supreme Court to make this interpretation. You are now arguing that if the United States Government went away, the States could then set up a state religion. Do you realize how silly you sound when you back track this way?
The constitution. If a law conflicts with it, no matter what some guy in a robe( who isn't really a citizen according to THE REAL 13th AMENDMENT) tells you. Use your own mind...the words have meaning. Dont let some judge steal your rights.
#79. To: A K A Stone (#73)
I asked the question first - give me a straight answer. YOU would know how any souls have been won to Christ through YOUR teachings or gentle persuasion. Where did I say Genesis was untrue? In fact - where did I mention it at all? You are so focused on the fire and brinstone aspect of Christ's teachings that you fail to see the love He left us. You are so obsessed with being right that you look past the fact that there was only one perfect man to walk the earth - so we can all be wrong. You are so focused on everyone elses *sins* that you fail to look on this thread and see where you may have sinned as well. How can you expect anyone to take you seriousley?
#80. To: Pandora (#78)
Ok that is your opinion. Now all you have to do to win the argument is show me from the constitution where the supreme court gets to decide and be the final arbitrator of the decision. Good luck, its not there.
I told you that the US Contstitution, as it has been understood by the US Supreme Court for over a century, does not allow the states to set up a state religion
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#81. To: A K A Stone (#77)
No.. but if you want to get biblical.. yes.. LOL
Do you think wiccans have their root in satanism?
#82. To: A K A Stone (#76)
Aw! The last refuge of an ideolog with a position he cannot defend. Why do you hate America? Why do you hate the troops? Why do you hate Jesus? Why do you hate mom and apple pie?
Why do you hate Jesus?
#83. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#79)
Actually I can't know a persons soul. Jesus said not to judge if someone is going to heaven or hell. (on an individual basis) Judgement is gods.
I asked the question first - give me a straight answer. YOU would know how any souls have been won to Christ through YOUR teachings or gentle persuasion.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#84. To: A K A Stone (#73)
You use your twisted sense of religion as an excuse to keep from having to work. Get into the depths of the issues involved in this and other threads and use your gray matter to understand the facts and concepts we speak of here. You are stalling, and your posture as a holier then thou Christian Talibanee does not cut the mustard, you forum General Custer.
#85. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#79)
You are so focused on the fire and brinstone aspect of Christ's teachings that you fail to see the love He left us. You said it in other places. I can't believe you don't remember it. You ignore the fire and brimstone. God said to PREACH his WHOLE WORD. Read all my posts they are filled with lots of love.
Where did I say Genesis was untrue? In fact - where did I mention it at all?
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#86. To: A K A Stone (#83)
Then you should look a tad bit further up this thread - because you DID condemn a certain sect/person to hell..... I am now off to church. This has been rather.... enlightening.
Jesus said not to judge if someone is going to heaven or hell. (on an individual basis) Judgement is gods.
#87. To: Anonymous Dead Indian (#82)
So do you or don't you hate Jesus? Even though it was for Mike.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#88. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#86)
I am now off to church. This has been rather.... enlightening. I type of person yes, an individual NO!! Some people are going to Hell capps. In fact most of them.
Then you should look a tad bit further up this thread - because you DID condemn a certain sect/person to hell.....
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#89. To: Zipporah (#81)
So you dont believe wiccans are from satanist cult. Does that mean you don't believe the Bible is the word of God?
No.. but if you want to get biblical.. yes.. LOL
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#90. To: Ferret Mike (#84)
You are stalling, and your posture as a holier then thou Christian Talibanee does not cut the mustard, you forum General Custer. I work 7 days a week, or at least 6.
You use your twisted sense of religion as an excuse to keep from having to work. Get into the depths of the issues involved in this and other threads and use your gray matter to understand the facts and concepts we speak of here.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#91. To: A K A Stone (#85)
Heh, actually you use your words like some use a bug bomb. Thanks for sharing anyway. I always appreciate a target rich environment such as you. I find you deluded, but you are indeed a very entertaining a spectacle.
"Read all my posts they are filled with lots of love."
#92. To: Ferret Mike (#84)
Im not hollier than thou. I have lots of problems lots of sin. Im working on it.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#93. To: A K A Stone (#80)
Ok that is your opinion. No. That is not my opinion. I didn't say a word. You are spinning again. That is the opinion of the United States Supreme Court. I quoted them to make my point. If you think this opinion is incorrect, cite a higher recognized authority that contradicts the opinion.
I told you that the US Contstitution, as it has been understood by the US Supreme Court for over a century, does not allow the states to set up a state religion
#94. To: A K A Stone (#90)
The effective range of an excuse is zero point zero meters.
"I work 7 days a week, or at least 6."
#95. To: Pandora (#93)
Its their opinion, that you seem to share. Now run along and find me some backing for that opinion in the constitution(you know the supreme law of the land.)
That is the opinion of the United States Supreme Court. I
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#96. To: Ferret Mike (#94)
what?
The effective range of an excuse is zero point zero meters.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#97. To: Pandora (#93)
THE US CONSTITUTION
cite a higher recognized authority that contradicts the opinion.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#98. To: A K A Stone (#92)
You are. And you are working on it; working on creating more sin and wrongs to help you compound your problems. ;-)
"Im not hollier than thou. I have lots of problems lots of sin. Im working on it."
#99. To: A K A Stone (#87)
Aw! The last refuge of a hate filled little mind losing an arguemnt. The loaded push poll question. Stone, when did you stop beating your wife?
So do you or don't you hate Jesus?
#100. To: Ferret Mike, pandora (#98)
Ferret if the supreme court makes a decition, and it is in conflict with the constitution. Is that a REAL LAW. If it is how did the supreme court make that law, they are not legislators.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#101. To: Anonymous Dead Indian (#99)
Just answer the question.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#102. To: A K A Stone (#96)
Guess I have to explain everything. What in the bloody blue blazes does your job have to do with the fact you are intellectually lazy and reliant on deluded patterns of thinking in forum? Don't use your employment as an excuse for your closed mindedness and unwillingness to think things through.
"what?"
#103. To: Ferret Mike (#102)
Don't use your employment as an excuse for your closed mindedness and unwillingness to think things through. Your the one who brought it up. YOu said i dont work. My ideas and thoughts are tested and proved.
Guess I have to explain everything. What in the bloody blue blazes does your job have to do with the fact you are intellectually lazy and reliant on deluded patterns of thinking in forum?
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#104. To: A K A Stone (#97)
THE US CONSTITUTION Ok. Show me where the Constitution says that Marbury vs Madison is incorrect.
cite a higher recognized authority that contradicts the opinion.
#105. To: Pandora (#104)
I already did. You don't get it. You're a waste of time. You seem to be of lower intelligence then most people i've talked to.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#106. To: A K A Stone (#101)
Firt Mr. Hate filled would be smear master, I want you to tell me in no uncertain terms that you think it is true. You are playing games now and you know it.
Just answer the question.
#107. To: A K A Stone (#105)
Stone .... you did not. I have been watching this and all you have done is tap dance and toss out slogans. Show us where Marbury vs Madison is inapplicable. You can't and you know it. So you bob and weave. You are lying to us.
I already did. You don't get it. You're a waste of time. You seem to be of lower intelligence then most people i've talked to.
#108. To: A K A Stone (#100)
Supreme Court and Constitution are capitalized because you refer to a particular court and document that are central to our country. Capitalizing the two words you do put in a higher case does nothing to buttress your circular logic. Your statement is permeated with evidence you do not hear a single word anyone in here is saying because that involved work. The work involved is reading and thinking to develop insight as to what we believe and why. These forums are not meant as a tool for you to compound your ignorance, they are an opportunity to unshackle yourself from illogically derived delusion and to free your mind from the trappings of thought that are foundational to creating and sustaining oppression and tyranny. Free your mind, Stone. We can lead you to water, bur we cannot make you drink, you have to do that yourself.
#109. To: A K A Stone (#105)
No you didn't. You are telling a lie to the forum to protect what is left of your credibility. Post a link where you show that Marbury vs Madison is not the law we live under. Post a link where you show that the words of the Constitution invalidate the case.
I already did. You don't get it. You're a waste of time.
#110. To: Anonymous Dead Indian (#107)
Yeah your right. The consitution is a god damned piece of paper. Its WHATEVER the supremes say. If they say killing babies is ok....then its righteous good and wonderful. sarcasm
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#111. To: A K A Stone (#105)
Aw! The favored refuge of the cornered hate filled kook. The low blow personal attack. Stone, what Jesus have called her? Would he have called her a dumb bitch? Maybe you didn't go far enough with your little package of vile hatred.
You're a waste of time. You seem to be of lower intelligence then most people i've talked to.
#112. To: A K A Stone (#110)
Throwing a tantrum doesn't make you right.
Yeah your right. The consitution is a god damned piece of paper. Its WHATEVER the supremes say. If they say killing babies is ok....then its righteous good and wonderful. sarcasm
#113. To: Pandora (#109)
Show me where the supreme court is the final arbitrator. The supremes usurped power in marbury vs madison. You know it that is why you can't show me something from the constitution. This is my last post to you on this subject until you show me something from the constitution that says the supremes have final say. You are a satanist and not worth it.
Marbury vs Madison
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#114. To: Anonymous Dead Indian (#112)
Your a fool
Throwing a tantrum doesn't make you right.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#115. To: A K A Stone (#105)
Okay, then what is that decision and what is is concerning? I'll bet you don't have a clue in that regard, do you? Ah, but you are worked up precisely because we do get it. We understand you think you can get by in this sort of dialog without having to do any intellectual effort to develop insight and understanding regarding that which is talked of in thread. Your fall back position, ad hominem attacks to attempt to belittle and dehumanize your fellow interlocutor. Won't fly Stonie guy. You only hurt yourself by attacking the messenger and not addressing the message.
"I already did."
"You don't get it."
"You're a waste of time. You seem to be of lower intelligence then most people i've talked to."
#116. To: A K A Stone (#113)
As I said at the very beginning of the thread: Read the case, read Marbury vs Madison, and it will explain this to you. As I also said at the top of the thread, don't pontificate on something you have not read - or that you don't understand. You have obviously not read Marbury vs Madison. You are arguing that if the United States Government was structured that way you wanted it to be structured, then you would be correct in your opinion. I already answered this argument above - I told you that it was silly.
Show me where the supreme court is the final arbitrator. The supremes usurped power in marbury vs madison. You know it that is why you can't show me something from the constitution.
#117. To: A K A Stone (#89)
Does that mean you don't believe the Bible is the word of God? No its not a satanist cult ... in how you're depicting it.. Your question is ridiculous IMO.
So you dont believe wiccans are from satanist cult.
#118. To: Ferret Mike (#115)
The supreme court gave itself power. It didn't come from the consittution. Thats why you and pandora the witch can't find any delegated power to the supreme court. It had to be usurped. You are ignorant or an enemy of the constitution. And probably a commie too.
In this landmark decision, the Supreme Court stated that it was the final arbiter of the Constitution of the United States. This power ultimately established the Supreme Court as a co-equal branch of the government.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#119. To: A K A Stone (#114)
Are we left with nothing but personal insults Mr. Hate Meister?
Your a fool
#120. To: A K A Stone (#114)
You are is contracted into 'You're.' Now, who is the fool? Someone who is too intellectually lazy to get a short one sentence ad homenim spelled correctly, or someone who is patiently trying to explain elements of U.S. Government 101 to you? I know the answer to this, do you?
"Your a fool"
#121. To: Zipporah (#117)
Your question is ridiculous IMO. Its a made up religion from parts of satanist and cults. There will be NO wiccans in heavan, no not one.
No its not a satanist cult ... in how you're depicting it..
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#122. To: A K A Stone (#118)
Stone, really pitch some hate for Jesus. Call him a fuck head.
And probably a commie too.
#123. To: Anonymous Dead Indian (#122)
Stone, really pitch some hate for Jesus. Call him a fuck head. I think ferret would be proud of his commie/socialist philisophy.
And probably a commie too.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#124. To: A K A Stone (#121)
Mr. Talks to God Everyday, you know this how? Isn't there something in the Bible that says it's not your business who gets in and who doesn't? And that the thief on the cross is the only one we are sure of?
There will be NO wiccans in heavan, no not one.
#125. To: A K A Stone (#110)
Rather than abortion, how do you feel about the forced sterilization of habitual felons, generational welfare leeches and the mentally ill?
If they say killing babies is ok....then its righteous good and wonderful. sarcasm
#126. To: Anonymous Dead Indian (#124)
Isn't there something in the Bible that says it's not your business who gets in and who doesn't? And that the thief on the cross is the only one we are sure of? You have to accept Christ, as the thief did. To get into heaven. Otherwise no entry. Jesus himself said he is the ONLY way. That is why they crucified him. You would have been there shouting crucify him.
Mr. Talks to God Everyday, you know this how?
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#127. To: Jethro Tull (#125)
I think forced sterilization is wrong. Welfare should be ended. The mentally ill should be helped.
Rather than abortion, how do you feel about the forced sterilization of habitual felons, generational welfare leeches and the mentally ill?
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#128. To: Jethro Tull (#125)
Jethro. Is the supreme court constitutionally supposed to have the final say. Or is the constitution suppposed to be the final word. Some of these dimwits don't get it. I think you will get it correct.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#129. To: A K A Stone (#126)
Isn't there something in the Bible that says it's not your business who gets in and who doesn't? And that the thief on the cross is the only one we are sure of? You have to accept Christ, as the thief did. To get into heaven. Otherwise no entry. Jesus himself said he is the ONLY way. That is why they crucified him. You would have been there shouting crucify him Mr. Talks to God Everyday, stop dodging the question. You know there are no Wiccans in heaven how? Do you decide who gets in and who doesn't? Do you speak for God here on earth?
Mr. Talks to God Everyday, you know this how?
#130. To: Anonymous Dead Indian (#129)
A former wiccan could get in. If they repent and acknowledge jesus is son of God. Otherwise it will be off to Hell. That is justice.
You know there are no Wiccans in heaven how?
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#131. To: A K A Stone (#121)
Hmm you know what the bible says about why people come to God? You might consider that for a while..
ts a made up religion from parts of satanist and cults. There will be NO wiccans in heavan, no not one.
#132. To: All (#129)
Aw! Another low blow cheap shot insult from a cornered kook. By their works ye shall know them.
You would have been there shouting crucify him
#133. To: A K A Stone (#118)
Damn bubba, learn to spell and capitalize. I mean, if you can't even understand the U.S. Constitution defines the role and prerogatives of the SCOTUS, and that the high court emanated from how that document defined it in it's role in creating the checks and balances of our government, at least spell, capitalize and punctuate as well as an eight grader. And what did I just get finished saying about ad hominem attacks? You don't listen, and you don't think things through.
"The supreme court gave itself power. It didn't come from the consittution."
"You are ignorant or an enemy of the constitution. And probably a commie too."
#134. To: A K A Stone (#128)
If America were still a limited constitutional republic, you'd be correct. However we've changed some time ago, so laws/rules/rights are whatever a judge/politician/member of the military says they are.
#135. To: Ferret Mike (#133)
Ferret, you just don't understand do you. Ad hominem attacks are perfectly ok if you are like Stone, i.e., you have God on your side and the voices in your head are guiding you. If you or I do them howerer, we are being sinful.
And what did I just get finished saying about ad hominem attacks? You don't listen, and you don't think things through.
#136. To: A K A Stone (#121)
Mis-spellings and copy errors one would expect from a fifth grade student again, as you don't listen; l-i-s-t-e-n, listen. Tell me bubba, does your God know you are playing gate keeper here for him? Do your delusions of intellectual grandeur also contain elements of self deification? We know the answers to this, do you? ;-)
"There will be NO wiccans in heavan, no not one."
#137. To: Jethro Tull (#134)
Jethro Tull Finally someone who knows what they are talking about. I know in reality the supremes have stolen the authroity. Doesn't make it right though. Doesn't even make it lawful.
If America were still a limited constitutional republic, you'd be correct. However we've changed some time ago, so laws/rules/rights are whatever a judge/politician/member of the military says they are.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#138. To: Anonymous Dead Indian (#135)
Yup. In the case of a toddler, it is called, "the terrible twos," when at the approximate age of 2 years human development encounters the concept that not everything belongs to them, and that they are not always right. I haven't seen the terrible twos in a poster this bad since TLBSHOW inflicted this behavior emanating from that level of arrested development on so many people that actions were taken as needed to contain and control his version of this particular problems. ;-)
"Ad hominem attacks are perfectly ok if you are like Stone, i.e., you have God on your side and the voices in your head are guiding you."
#139. To: Ferret Mike (#133)
Ok then show me where it gives the supreme court power to be final arbitrator of the law. If you can do that you win the argument. If not your just pissing in the wind.
I mean, if you can't even understand the U.S. Constitution defines the role and prerogatives of the SCOTUS,
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#140. To: Anonymous Dead Indian (#135)
A site that define what Stone is: http://www.fuckwit.info/whatis.htm
#141. To: Anonymous Dead Indian (#135)
Truth hurt?
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#142. To: A K A Stone (#139)
Read Marbury vs Madison. It is all explained there.
Ok then show me where it gives the supreme court power to be final arbitrator of the law. If you can do that you win the argument. If not your just pissing in the wind.
#143. To: Ferret Mike (#140)
That isn't a personal attack. You would never stoop to that level. lol
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#144. To: A K A Stone (#141)
What? The truth that hate filled bigots tend to belive God is on their side? Read the story of John Brown some day.
Truth hurt?
#145. To: Anonymous Dead Indian (#142)
The constitution is supreme law. Not some opinion from supremem court. You are constitutionally illiterate. Just obey the dudes in black robes who aren't even citizens. Study the real 13th amendment for a clue.
Read Marbury vs Madison. It is all explained there.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#146. To: Anonymous Dead Indian (#144)
Your the asshole who started the personal attacks. saying hate filled constantly. Why dont you go fuck a monkey.
What? The truth that hate filled bigots tend to belive God is on their side? Read the story of John Brown some day.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#147. To: A K A Stone (#139)
I already did, you just are not paying attention to anything but that which emanates from your own head. Not to mention that your overblown sense of self grandeur is revealed by your pronouncement of what I am if I don't meet standards of argument you set. You lost the argument ages ago. Sorry about your luck Clyde.
"Ok then show me where it gives the supreme court power to be final arbitrator of the law. If you can do that you win the argument. If not your just pissing in the wind.
#148. To: A K A Stone (#141)
Or were you talking about the schizo voices in your head that guide you? That truth dosn't hurt me - but you should get some medication for it.
Truth hurt?
#149. To: Ferret Mike (#147)
From the constitution. Not the usurpers. Go look up usurp. It will educate you.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#150. To: Rabble Rouser (#18)
I probably didn't explain myself very well, especially in regards to philosophy. I think philosophy should (and actually does, whether individuals admit it nor not) emerge from actual real world experiences and observations. It should be based on the practical, and not in the theoretical world of the "possible". If I want to understand someone's philosophy, I try to find out what their experiences have been as I think their philosophy derives from that. Same is true for groups - philosophy should derive from experience rather than some artificial construct that someone creates in his head that doesn't work in the real world. Most of the "isms" fall in that category.
"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."
#151. To: Ferret Mike (#147)
I got that from your other posts. Are you not a leftist?
pronouncement of what I am if I don't meet standards of argument you set.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#152. To: A K A Stone (#143)
You are self amused here by the subtleness of your above quoted ad hominem attack. This says volumes about your self obsessiveness, which again is your problem, not mine.
"That isn't a personal attack. You would never stoop to that level. lol"
#153. To: A K A Stone (#146)
Aw! The hate filled bigot tosses another little ball of vile hatred for Jesus! I wasn't insulting you when I said that you were motivated by vile hatred. I was only noting that you typically act like you are acting here. It was a simple statement of fact.
Your the asshole who started the personal attacks. saying hate filled constantly. Why dont you go fuck a monkey.
#154. To: Ferret Mike (#152)
Just pointing out your hypocracy
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#155. To: Anonymous Dead Indian (#153)
Like I was pointing out the fact that wiccans are satanists and will burn in hell. I hope they repent and accept christ.
I wasn't insulting you when I said that you were motivated by vile hatred. I was only noting that you typically act like you are acting here. It was a simple statement of fact.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#156. To: A K A Stone (#146)
Stone, how would Jesus hate? Would he call me a motherfucking son of a bitch? If so, then you are being a slackard.
Your the asshole who started the personal attacks. saying hate filled constantly. Why dont you go fuck a monkey.
#157. To: A K A Stone (#151)
Actually, I am right handed. Are you?
"Are you not a leftist?"
#158. To: A K A Stone (#155)
I hope they repent and accept christ. No, like you calling people monkey fuckers and wishing for them to be burned at the stake. But you know this don't you. That's why you are now spinning here.
Like I was pointing out the fact that wiccans are satanists and will burn in hell.
#159. To: Ferret Mike (#157)
If I am wrong that you are not a leftist, then I'm sorry. I though you were one of those leftist tree hugger types, who worship the creation.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#160. To: Anonymous Dead Indian (#158)
If you don't believe in God then you must believe in evilution. They think its ok to fuck monkeys. In fact they that monkeys are our ancestors. Maybe I assumed to much thinking you believed in the religion of evilution.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#161. To: A K A Stone (#146)
Stone, do you have anything in you besides hate, profanity and grandiosity? You need to get beyond this base level before you can convince anyone of anything.
Your the asshole who started the personal attacks. saying hate filled constantly. Why dont you go fuck a monkey.
#162. To: A K A Stone (#160)
What about the group that vastly outnumbers you? The group that believes in both God and evolution?
If you don't believe in God then you must believe in evilution.
#163. To: A K A Stone (#160)
Stone, give us a link for your mindless, hate filled, cheap personal attack or keep your vile filth to yourself.
They think its ok to fuck monkeys.
#164. To: Anonymous Dead Indian (#162)
Thats about as intelligent as saying they believe in a round square or carrots falling from the sky. They are not compatible. Goe clearly says he created life in 6 days. He didn't let it evolve over millions of year. Your problem is you have rejected your creators words.
What about the group that vastly outnumbers you? The group that believes in both God and evolution?
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#165. To: A K A Stone (#159)
Aww, yer so cute; you wrote up a passive aggressive bait fest. You are not as smart or insightful as you find yourself to be Stonie; and this is your problem, not mine.
"If I am wrong that you are not a leftist, then I'm sorry. I though you were one of those leftist tree hugger types, who worship the creation."
#166. To: A K A Stone (#164)
No answer huh? Didn't think so. You haven't done a very good job of thinking things through have you.
Thats about as intelligent as saying they believe in a round square or carrots falling from the sky.
#167. To: A K A Stone (#160)
Stone, why don't you make a list of the people that Jesus wants us to hate and call monkey fuckers. Is it everyone on the planet except for you?
#168. To: A K A Stone (#145)
I agree. The SC justices take an oath to defend and uphold the constitution. The are lawfully bound by it. But as we all know, in reality, they ignore the very document that limits their power and authority. In so doing, they have usurped power that was never granted to them by THE PEOPLE. Iow, they've overthrown the government and the constitution, as George Bush said, is now just a goddamned piece of paper.
The constitution is supreme law. Not some opinion from supreme court
And it's an inside job
By the well-connected
#169. To: All (#163)
Stone, give us a link for your mindless, hate filled, cheap personal attack or keep your vile filth to yourself. Still waiting for the link.
They think its ok to fuck monkeys.
#170. To: Anonymous Dead Indian (#163)
From national geographic. The evilutionists like fucking monkeys http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/05/humans-chimps.html
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#171. To: christine (#168)
You and jethro are the only ones who have chimed in with sone sense on the subject. Thanks
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#172. To: A K A Stone (#170)
It doesn't say that and you know it. It says human ancestors. I am still waiting for the link that proves that people who believe in modern science think it is ok to fuck monkeys.
#173. To: Anonymous Dead Indian (#169)
post 170. If eviltuionists think we came from monkeys, what would be wrong with fucking them. Wouldn't we just be more evolved monkeys. Are you an adherant to the dogmatic religion of evilution?
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#174. To: Ferret Mike (#13)
Personally I view Christ in context with the Old Testament - he was a Jew, after all, and pretty much followed the standard Jewish practices (as far as I know), but he wasn't a fanatic. I can't get too excited about religion in general. I prefer to follow the OT to the extent that I can, while believing that Jesus is the best manifestation of man that we can expect. I think the OT is based on the actual collective experiences and wisdom of a real group of people over centuries, and that's why I believe in it. I figure, what other people have survived (aside from stone age people in rain forests) as long as the Jews? The OT, being based on the real value of experience and what is best for a community (note, I say "community" - not individual), is to me, the best blueprint devised for humanity's successful continuation. I think the survival of the Jewish people proves that. I believe in the value of experience rather than anything that someone "dreams" up (hope I'm explaining that adequately). I have a very strong dislike of theories that don't have a basis in long term observation and practical experience. I am extremely cynical and doubting of new beliefs or revelations. That said, I would never say that any particular group is going to Hell, as that's a decision that God will make alone on his own terms. It's not for me to say. There are people I THINK will be going to hell, such as Hitler or Stalin or Mao, or George Bush and most of his administration, but that's just my personal opinion of how evil they all are and what they deserve.
"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."
#175. To: A K A Stone (#173)
What do you think Mr. Cheap Smear Meister? If you can't attack a group legitimately, falsely attribute a few over the top ideas to them and then attack the strawman. Right? Sorry, I'm not going to bite.
If eviltuionists think we came from monkeys, what would be wrong with fucking them.
#176. To: Anonymous Dead Indian (#172)
When one does not know the difference between an ape and a monkey, they make a bait that auto destructs and ridicules themselves. Hopefully someday this character will grow up, but I doubt it.
#177. To: mehitable (#174)
Jesus clearly said he is the only way to heaven. CLEARLY. I agree that you shouldn't say this individual or that one is going to hell. Who knows they may wake up and accept christ someday. But jesus wouldn't want us to say no everything is ok you don't have to believe in Christ. Everyone goes to heaven. That is a disservice. Just speak the truth. Jesus said people would hate Christians and that the world hated him first. So being the minority is good.
That said, I would never say that any particular group is going to Hell, as that's a decision that God will make alone on his own terms.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#178. To: Ferret Mike (#176)
Hopefully someday this character will grow up, but I doubt it. Are you saying we came from apes not monkeys. Ok so screw an ape or gorilla. Its your kinfolk. lol
When one does not know the difference between an ape and a monkey, they make a bait that auto destructs and ridicules themselves.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#179. To: A K A Stone (#178)
We are done. I don't bozo people because I keep an eye on what they post. But I have no use for a fuckwit like you.
#180. To: Ferret Mike (#179)
Feel free to bozo me if you can't handle the truth. You can then live in your little fantasy world.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#181. To: A K A Stone (#177)
Well, Stone, people are gonna believe what they want to believe. Personally I prefer to believe in the tried and true, but that's me. I don't want to beat people over the head with religion, as frankly - that just turns them against it. Everyone has to come to God in their own way, or they won't come to him at all.
"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."
#182. To: mehitable (#181)
Yep everyone is free to believe as they choose. No problem from me on that. But im also free to attack their heretical views.
Well, Stone, people are gonna believe what they want to believe.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#183. To: mehitable (#181)
The love of God is what draws people to Him.. that love is expressed through His people.. the only God/Jesus that they'll see..
I don't want to beat people over the head with religion, as frankly - that just turns them against it.
#184. To: mehitable (#181)
Translation: In his small inner world an ideal world is one where anyone can speak their mind, as long as he gets to shoot them afterwards.
"Yep everyone is free to believe as they choose. No problem from me on that. But im also free to attack their heretical views."
#185. To: Ferret Mike (#184)
Dirtying the waters with more lies huh?
Translation: In his small inner world an ideal world is one where anyone can speak their mind, as long as he gets to shoot them afterwards.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#186. To: Zipporah (#183)
I agree. And I think you can explain what you believe, and why you believe it, and maybe someone might agree with you or become curious - or not. But I don't think it works to try to scare people into religion or to just tell them they're going to hell. That just makes people angry and upset at you. It doesn't change their hearts and mind. Jesus won people over because of his behavior and his way of dealing with people. They could just look at him and KNOW he was different from all the other guys. That's what we should do - teach people by our example,and tell them what we believe, and if they accept it - fine. If they don't, they have to go their own ways and figure it out for themselves.
"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."
#187. To: mehitable (#186)
Yeah we should say wiccans are love they will go to heaven just like all the other satanists. lol CALL A SPADE A SPADE! They are satanists to the core.
But I don't think it works to try to scare people into religion or to just tell them they're going to hell. That just makes people angry and upset at you. It doesn't change their hearts and mind. Jesus won people over because of his behavior and his way of dealing with people. They could just look at him and KNOW he was different from all the other guys. That's what we should do - teach people by our example,and tell them what we believe, and if they accept it - fine. If they don't, they have to go their own ways and figure it out for themselves.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#188. To: mehitable (#186)
Absolutely agree.. it's not doctrine or dogma that wins souls.. it's the love of God demonstrated by those who are called by His name..
Jesus won people over because of his behavior and his way of dealing with people. They could just look at him and KNOW he was different from all the other guys. That's what we should do - teach people by our example,and tell them what we believe, and if they accept it - fine. If they don't, they have to go their own ways and figure it out for themselves.
#189. To: A K A Stone (#187)
Stone, I didn't want to get into this, but I talk to God every afternoon at 2:00. He says you are going to Hell and there is nothing you can do about it. You jerked off too much when you were a kid and now there isn't enough time left in your life to repent for it. If you don't believe me, ask Pat Robertson. He was there too.
CALL A SPADE A SPADE!
#190. To: A K A Stone (#187)
This is still going on?? Do you think that God loves Wiccans less than you?
#191. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#190)
God loves everyone. However some people are going to hell. If the wiccans dont turn from their satanist ways and accept christ. They will go to Hell. Do you think a wiccan can be a christian too? Is anyone going to Hell or are we all going to heaven?
Do you think that God loves Wiccans less than you?
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#192. To: A K A Stone (#191)
Yes, and at this very moment Pandora is casting a spell on you that will make you accept the Wiccan Religion. The only way to protect yourself is to take off all your cloths, insert your finger in your rectum and run around the block three times. Scream "Look at me, I am free!!" as loud as you can to every neighbor you see along the way. If you don't do this immediately you will be dammed for all time.
Do you think a wiccan can be a christian too?
#193. To: A K A Stone (#191)
I do not pretend to have a direct link to the Almighty. He is who decides whose name is in the Book of Life, I do not think my self haughty or self-important enough to even veture a guess. I personally do not know enough about the Wiccan faith to answer your other question.
Is anyone going to Hell or are we all going to heaven?
#194. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#193)
You don't have to know that much about it. They worship someone other than Jesus. jesus said he is the only way. It is not that hard.
I personally do not know enough about the Wiccan faith to answer your other question.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#195. To: A K A Stone (#194)
That is where you and I disagree. I think that you must have some knowledge on a subject before you comment on it or debate against it or for it.
#196. To: A K A Stone (#194)
I guess for me the bottom line is personal responsibility. These folks know what the Bible is and who Jesus is, and if they don't want to believe in him, that's their business. If they're going to hell, that's not up to me, and that's a risk that's apparently acceptable to them. It's their choice. I don't see how you're going to change anyone's mind about that.
"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."
#197. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#195)
Then why are you talking on this thread?
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#198. To: mehitable (#196)
I was just trying to say wiccans are satanists, which they are. A lot of the debate was also on the role of the supreme court. Where do you fall on that subject.
I guess for me the bottom line is personal responsibility. These folks know what the Bible is and who Jesus is, and if they don't want to believe in him, that's their business. If they're going to hell, that's not up to me, and that's a risk that's apparently acceptable to them. It's their choice. I don't see how you're going to change anyone's mind about that.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#199. To: A K A Stone (#197)
My goodness - you are so very full of yourself that is IS amusing! You seem to think that you are the Alpha and Omega of all Christian knowledge and truth. Pride goeth before the fall Stone... I will not bother to answer your silly question, as it does not warrant a response.
#200. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#199)
I wasn't expection one.
I will not bother to answer your silly question, as it does not warrant a response.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#201. To: A K A Stone (#200)
Sure be a good thing yous were not expection one...
#202. To: A K A Stone (#198)
First off, Wiccans are not satanists. Those are two different things entirely. I've met a lot of Wiccans, and they're generally very nice people. I don't have anything bad to say about them. They don't believe in Satan or the Devil and they don't do any evil rites, like human or animal sacrifice. Generally they believe that you have to take responsbility for what you do and think, as it will come back at you, three times (at least). They believe in nature and worshop nature spirits and such. Satanists are basically anti-Christians, who just twist Christianity around and are really angry, screwed up people who live hedonistic and selfish lives and like to hurt others as they somehow think this gives them power from Satan. Why on earth anyone would want to be a Satanist is totally beyond me. As for the Supreme Court - well, I haven't followed this whole thread so I'm not sure what the basic argument is. We have a separation of church and state, of course. The government cannot establish any specific religion (like the Church of England). However, I see nothing wrong with the government recognizing that the overwhelming majority of people observe a certain religion or tradition and taking that into consideration for public affairs or holidays, etc. That's why we have a public holiday of Christmas - because very few Christians would be willing to work that day. It's a public, govt, recognition of a social reality. I always believe in recognizing reality.
"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."
#203. To: mehitable (#202)
*APPLAUSE* for a well reasoned post!
#204. To: mehitable (#202)
That is not true. Wiccans say Jesus is not the Christ. Just like the satanists do.
First off, Wiccans are not satanists. Those are two different things entirely
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#205. To: mehitable (#202)
No we don't. Can you please show me that in the constitution.
We have a separation of church and state,
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#206. To: A K A Stone (#204)
So does that make Hindus and Buddhists and Moslems satanists as well?
"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."
#207. To: mehitable (#206)
Yep
So does that make Hindus and Buddhists and Moslems satanists as well?
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#208. To: A K A Stone (#205)
Okay - that was easy: Amendment I Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."
#209. To: mehitable (#208)
They key word their is congress. Doesn't mention the state governments. The federal govt only has those powers delegated to it. So congress is to keep their hands off religion.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#210. To: A K A Stone (#207)
Then I guess your argument is about semantics and definitions. Someone might believe that all non-Christians are going to hell, but that does not make all non-Christians Satanists. Satanists are just one sect of the vast body of non-Christians.
"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."
#211. To: mehitable (#210)
Maybe i shouldn't call some of them satanists (wiccans deserve that title) but it is my belief that only people who accept christ will enter heaven. It is also my hope that everyone here will accept christ of their own free will.
Then I guess your argument is about semantics and definitions. Someone might believe that all non-Christians are going to hell, but that does not make all non-Christians Satanists. Satanists are just one sect of the vast body of non-Christians.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#212. To: A K A Stone (#209)
I thought you were discussing the federal government as you mentioned the Supreme Court. I suppose a state could establish a religion and several did during the Colonial and Post-Revolutionary days, but I really don't think considering the strength of the Federal government and ascendancy of the feds over the states, that such a thing would be allowed now. But it could be argued. I assume you're saying that states SHOULD establish an official religion, presumably Christianity? and which denomination would they pick?
"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."
#213. To: mehitable (#212)
Pandora, some dead indian, and ferret mike, all think that the supreme court is the final arbitrator and that is constitutional. lol.
I thought you were discussing the federal government as you mentioned the Supreme Court. I suppose a state could establish a religion and several did during the Colonial and Post-Revolutionary days, but I really don't think considering the strength of the Federal government and ascendancy of the feds over the states, that such a thing would be allowed now. But it could be argued.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#214. To: A K A Stone (#213)
Well, practically speaking, in this day and age, they're right. The Federal govt has assumed ascendancy over the state govts so the Federal constitution usually supercedes the various state constititions. One can argue (on a variety of topics) as to whether that should be the case, but it is the reality now. Personally I believe in vesting power in the states rather than the central govt, but one might argue that subservience to the federal constitution is one of the prices of belong to the republic. Of course, as we saw in the 1860s - no exit is allowed (which I also disagree with).
"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."
#215. To: mehitable (#214)
I'm perfectly aware that in reality the supreme court is exercising undelegated powers. All that group could spout is read marbury vs madison. My point was that that was a usurption of power. They all seemed to think that was the was the constitution was supposed to work. I threw in a few curse words too and capitalized some stuff.
) as to whether that should be the case, but it is the reality now.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#216. To: A K A Stone (#215)
I agree it was a usurpation of power. However, if the states want to stay in the Union, that might be part of the price to pay (subservience to the Federal constition). I believe that states should be able to secede from the Union, however, which is the way they would be able to maintain their states rights. Otherwise, asserting states rights is kind of meaningless as the Feds will always try to usurp increasing levels of power.
"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."
#217. To: A K A Stone (#215)
No, you are lying to save face again. But you know that. Let's go over it for everyone else though. You originally made an unqualified claim that states had the power to establish a state religion. Pandora kicked you in the balls by posting the relevant quote that showed they did not. You then asked her to show you where the Supreme Court had the authority to make such a ruling. She did, she referenced Maybury vs Madison and told you it was explained there. It is - that is the controlling case. You refused to look at it or discuss it. You then morphed your claim to say that if the world worked the way you would like it to work, your claim regarding state religions would then be true. Pandora caught you on this and told you that you were now being silly. You were. In this current post you try to dodge this other stuff further up on the thread. The problem you face is that this stuff is all there on the thread for the whole world to see. They can judge for themselves. People would have a lot more respect for you if you had a shred of integrity. Lying for Jesus is just as ineffective as hating or cursing for Jesus.
All that group could spout is read marbury vs madison. My point was that that was a usurption of power. They all seemed to think that was the was the constitution was supposed to work.
#218. To: Anonymous Dead Indian (#217)
They do, and have had them. lol your so uninformed
You originally made an unqualified claim that states had the power to establish a state religion. Pandora kicked you in the balls by posting the relevant quote that showed they did not.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#219. To: Anonymous Dead Indian (#217)
She showed me no where in the constitution for that power. You are a liar. I already know what marbury vs madison was. It is a usurption. So you should be to show me where they have that power delegated to them. Not when they gave themselves undelegated power in that power grab of a decision. YOu are not being honest. You still havent found where they get lawful power from. You are with the usurpers.
You then asked her to show you where the Supreme Court had the authority to make such a ruling. She did, she referenced Maybury vs Madison and told you it was explained there. It is - that is the controlling case. You refused to look at it or discuss it.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#220. To: Anonymous Dead Indian (#217)
Show me where I said that liar. If it is there it shoud be real easy to do. But it is not. You are a proven liar.
You then morphed your claim to say that if the world worked the way you would like it to work, your claim regarding state religions would then be true.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#221. To: Anonymous Dead Indian (#217)
I didn't dodge anything. They did decide for themselves, christine, jethro, methinkable all agree that it was a usurption. The first amendment forbids CONGRESS....you are making stuff up to say it forbids governors. Taken with the 10th amendment(do you know what that is) the case is clear. States can have a state religion if they so desire.
In this current post you try to dodge this other stuff further up on the thread. The problem you face is that this stuff is all there on the thread for the whole world to see. They can judge for themselves.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#222. To: A K A Stone (#218)
No answer huh? Didn't think so. I guess the Supreme Court really does know what they are talking about - and your unsupported statement here is pure crap.
They do, and have had them. lol your so uninformed
#223. To: A K A Stone (#220)
Show me where I said that liar. See posts 63 and 78 above. Buy you know that don't you. But we might as well put them here for everyone else to see.
You then morphed your claim to say that if the world worked the way you would like it to work, your claim regarding state religions would then be true.
#224. To: A K A Stone (#221)
You are saying that if the law was the way you would like it to be, then you would be correct in your assertions. OK. Pandora was right. You are making a silly dodge to save face. It is a lot different from your first unqualified claim that the States have a right to found a state religion isn't it?
I didn't dodge anything. They did decide for themselves, christine, jethro, methinkable all agree that it was a usurption.
#225. To: Anonymous Dead Indian (#223)
#63. To: Pandora (#60) Use google and find a case called Marbury vs. Madison Yes the first usurption. Just because it happened long ago and set a precedent doesn't mean it is the law. Get back to the root. The constitution. If a law conflicts with it, no matter what some guy in a robe( who isn't really a citizen according to THE REAL 13th AMENDMENT) tells you. Use your own mind...the words have meaning. Dont let some judge steal your rights. FUCK THE GOVERNMENT Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson A K A Stone posted on 2006-05-21 10:53:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply #64. To: Ferret Mike (#62) Don't yell at me with capital letters. Keep it civil. Making wrong statements louder simply does not make them right. Caps is to highlight it. It is not yelling. That is some gay aol saying. Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson A K A Stone posted on 2006-05-21 10:53:59 ET Reply Trace Private Reply #65. To: A K A Stone (#57) Christ said he would come back to bring a sword Stone, did you ever consider founding a "Hate for Jesus" ministry? You and all the other hate filled, bigoted religions kooks could sit around and tell each other how God wanted you to torure heritics. It would be a big hit in fundie circles. Anonymous Dead Indian posted on 2006-05-21 10:55:02 ET Reply Trace Private Reply #66. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#61) So instead of allowing Him to do as He said He would, you have decided to do it for Him? So tell me, how many souls have you won for our Lord with your tactics? God said to preach the whole word...not some sugar coating of the word like saying the garden of eden is fiction. Guess what Hell and witches are in the Bible. Guess what God said they are going to hell. If you want to help someone you would inform them of it instead of letting them go to the dark side. Take a stand. Jesus said those who were luke warm would be spit out of his mouth. Me im red hot. Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson A K A Stone posted on 2006-05-21 10:55:30 ET Reply Trace Private Reply #67. To: Anonymous Dead Indian (#65) You and all the other hate filled, bigoted religions kooks could sit around and tell each other how God wanted you to torure heritics. It would be a big hit in fundie circles. You are misrepresenting what I said. Where did I say to torture anyone. that is what Bush is for not me. Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson A K A Stone posted on 2006-05-21 10:56:16 ET Reply Trace Private Reply #68. To: Pandora (#60) "Use google and find a case called Marbury vs. Madison. This will explain it to you. I don't have time to explain high school civics here." This guy is too much. He is assuming that the Constitution was adopted to make worse the problems maintaining the political and social cohesion of this nation the Articles of Confederation were causing in the several states. I doubt of he has the tools to understand how case law - Stare Decisis - works; never mind understand the decision you cite - Marbury vs. Madison - and why it is a cornerstone decision of the U.S. Supreme Court. Nice try though. Ferret Mike posted on 2006-05-21 10:56:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply #69. To: Ferret Mike (#68) I doubt of he has the tools to understand how case law You are such an ass. Show me in the constitution where it says law is determined by who has the best lawyer and how some case comes out. NOW COME ON THAT IS ASSININE. Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson A K A Stone posted on 2006-05-21 10:58:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply #70. To: Ferret Mike (#68) So you think case law trumps the constitution. Of commie. Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson A K A Stone posted on 2006-05-21 10:59:42 ET Reply Trace Private Reply #71. To: A K A Stone (#66) Take a stand. Jesus said those who were luke warm would be spit out of his mouth. Me im red hot. You can be red hot AND dead wrong at the same time - but I think deep down you know this. How many souls have you won for Christ? CAPPSMADNESS posted on 2006-05-21 11:00:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply #72. To: A K A Stone (#67) Where did I say to torture anyone. that is what Bush is for not me. On this thread you seemed to delight in someone being burned at the stake. I would have to comb through threads for other instances and I don't want to waste my time doing that. But how can you be a rapture monkey and not want to hurt those who don't agree with your silly, narrow view? Doesn't this come with the territory? How does the Taliban handle disagreement? How would your theocracy handle it? How did Cotton Mather handle it? Anonymous Dead Indian posted on 2006-05-21 11:00:55 ET Reply Trace Private Reply #73. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#71) You can be red hot AND dead wrong at the same time - but I think deep down you know this. How many souls have you won for Christ? Yes you can be red hot and wrong.... I don't know how many souls I won. I thought faith came by hearing the word. How many have you won? How many have you lead astray by claiming Genesis is not true? Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson A K A Stone posted on 2006-05-21 11:02:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply #74. To: Anonymous Dead Indian (#72) "How did Cotton Mather handle it?" Heh, he likely believes Cotton Mather is a device invented by Eli Whitney to efficiently and quickly remove seeds from fresh picked cotton, and that the cotton gin was a judge who hung people who denied they were witches in Salem, Massachusetts. ;-) Ferret Mike posted on 2006-05-21 11:04:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply #75. To: Anonymous Dead Indian (#72) On this thread you seemed to delight in someone being burned at the stake. I would have to comb through threads for other instances and I don't want to waste my time doing that. But how can you be a rapture monkey and not want to hurt those who don't agree with your silly, narrow view? Doesn't this come with the territory? How does the Taliban handle disagreement? How would your theocracy handle it? How did Cotton Mather handle it? I said that in times past some of these witches would have been burnt at the stake. That is a fact it happened, i neither condemed or encouraged it, i just stated a fact. Rapture monkey? I don't believe in a rapture. What people do is mix the "rapture" in with the second coming. Make two doctrines out of one. I believe in the second coming. I wouldn't believe to much propaganda against the Taliban. 911 was an inside job. Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson A K A Stone posted on 2006-05-21 11:04:58 ET Reply Trace Private Reply #76. To: Ferret Mike (#74) Why do you hate Jesus? He gave his life freely so you could have life. Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson A K A Stone posted on 2006-05-21 11:06:03 ET Reply Trace Private Reply #77. To: zipporah (#0) Do you think wiccans have their root in satanism? Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson A K A Stone posted on 2006-05-21 11:06:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply #78. To: A K A Stone (#63) The constitution. If a law conflicts with it, no matter what some guy in a robe( who isn't really a citizen according to THE REAL 13th AMENDMENT) tells you. Use your own mind...the words have meaning. Dont let some judge steal your rights. FUCK THE GOVERNMENT I told you that the US Contstitution, as it has been understood by the US Supreme Court for over a century, does not allow the states to set up a state religion. In fact, it never allowed this. I presented both the case where this interpretation is made and the case that allows the Supreme Court to make this interpretation. You are now arguing that if the United States Government went away, the States could then set up a state religion. Do you realize how silly you sound when you back track this way? Pandora posted on 2006-05-21 11:07:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#226. To: Anonymous Dead Indian (#224)
OK. The constitution is the law. Didn't you know that.
You are saying that if the law was the way you would like it to be, then you would be correct in your assertions.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#227. To: A K A Stone (#225)
Yup. If the world was the way you wanted it to be, you would be correct here. Otherwise it looks like Pandora knows what she is talking about and she is correct. Given that we must deal with reality as it is, and not as you would prefer it to be, I will go with Pandora. Incidentally, throwing a tantrum to obscure your error just makes you look like a ninney.
Yes the first usurption. Just because it happened long ago and set a precedent doesn't mean it is the law.
#228. To: Anonymous Dead Indian (#222)
In other words you can't find the power given to the supreme court by the states. In other words you can't find it in the constitution. So you just take the usurpers word for it. Find it in the constitution or it is not valid. You really aren't that bright are you.
I guess the Supreme Court really does know what they are talking about - and your unsupported statement here is pure crap.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#229. To: A K A Stone (#226)
So is the rest of the body of law. Didn't you know that? Read Maybury vs Madison, or take civics 101 and it will be explained to you. You can't pick and chose which laws you like and you can't operate in the fatasy world in your head where everything is the way you would like it to be.
The constitution is the law. Didn't you know that.
#230. To: A K A Stone (#228)
Sure I can. And so can you. We told you where to look. You are now doing is begging the question to obfuscate your error. It is a common tactic of loons when they get their asses kicked.
In other words you can't find the power given to the supreme court by the states.
#231. To: Anonymous Dead Indian (#227)
If the world was the way you wanted it to be, you would be correct here. Otherwise it looks like Pandora knows what she is talking about and she is correct. Given that we must deal with reality as it is, and not as you would prefer it to be, I will go with Pandora. Incidentally, throwing a tantrum to obscure your error just makes you look like a ninney. I know in reality the supremes are usurpers and have the REAL power right now to decide cases. I never argued that. Im just saying that it isn't really the law as that power was never granted them under the constitution. And that if there is any justice ALL of those decisions that they made would be struck down. Also do you know anything about the real (missing) 13th amendment>?
Yup.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#232. To: Anonymous Dead Indian (#229)
So is the rest of the body of law. Didn't you know that? actually if the congress enacts a law and it isn't constitutionally based it isn't really a law and we have no obligation to follow it. Ever heard of color of law......why do they have that term if everything congress passes is the law. You need to throw out all the garbage the government propaganda schools "taught" (more like brainwahed) you into thinking.
The constitution is the law. Didn't you know that.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#233. To: A K A Stone (#231)
What you keep saying over, and over, and over, and over is that if the world was they way you wanted it to be, then you would be right. Yawn. As Pandora pointed out to you, that is a silly position. I would go one further and say you are now being idiotic.
I know in reality the supremes are usurpers and have the REAL power right now to decide cases. I never argued that. Im just saying that it isn't really the law as that power was never granted them under the constitution. And that if there is any justice ALL of those decisions that they made would be struck down.
#234. To: Anonymous Dead Indian (#230)
From the supreme law of the land. You seem incabable of grasping a very simple constititional concept. If it violates the constitution it isn't a law. The lawbreakers in marbury vs madison dont have the power to replace the constitution. Only because idiots like you went along with it did it take root. You are part of the problem and not the solution.
Sure I can. And so can you. We told you where to look.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#235. To: A K A Stone (#232)
Ever heard of color of law......why do they have that term if everything congress passes is the law. OK, I give. If the world was the way it exists in your bigoted little head, then you would be correct. Otherwise, when we are dealing with reality, when we are dealing with the way things really are, you are dead wrong. You have to relevant quotes on the thread above to prove this to yourself.
actually if the congress enacts a law and it isn't constitutionally based it isn't really a law and we have no obligation to follow it.
#236. To: Anonymous Dead Indian (#233)
You have proven yourself stupid (not ignorant) several times. When you get your GED come back and debate with the big boys.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#237. To: A K A Stone (#234)
Stone, you are making a mornonic argument that your interpretation of the Constitution differs from that of the Supreme Court. Ok, fine. If the world was the way it exists in your bigoted little head, you would be correct. Otherwise - in the real world - they are the Supreme Court who has the unchallenged power to decide the matter and you are some silly dick on the internet. But go ahead and tell us how you would like things to be.
From the supreme law of the land. You seem incabable of grasping a very simple constititional concept. If it violates the constitution it isn't a law.
#238. To: A K A Stone (#234)
Show me a law that doesn't have to be interpreted and I will show you a country without courts. It only exists in your bigoted little mind.
From the supreme law of the land.
#239. To: A K A Stone (#232)
And who decides this loon? Maybe the Supreme Court? I mean, that is the articulated purpose of this court. Thank you for making my point.
actually if the congress enacts a law and it isn't constitutionally based it isn't really a law and we have no obligation to follow it.
#240. To: Anonymous Dead Indian (#239)
Show me the constitutional authority. You can't because it isn't there you federal propagandist.
Maybe the Supreme Court? I mean, that is the articulated purpose of this court.
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#241. To: A K A Stone (#240)
We did. Many, many, many, many times on this thread. You refused to look. What you are doing is begging the question to obfuscate your error and save face.
Show me the constitutional authority. You can't because it isn't there you federal propagandist.
#242. To: Anonymous Dead Indian (#241)
LIAR LIAR YOUR PANTS ARE ON FIRE. YOU SHOW ME THE USURPTION. YOU CANT SHOW ONE QUOTE FROM THE CONSTITUTION. YOU ENEMY OF THE CONSTITUTION YOU!!!
Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson
#243. To: Pandora, A K A Stone (#32)
No it's not. Yes it is Pandora. There is only one way to heaven and it is through Jesus the Son of God. There is only one alternative to Jesus, Satan and everlasting hell, there is no other alternative period, as much as you or anyone else wants there to be one, there isn't.
The concept of a goddess is a satanist witch philisophy.
God is always good!
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02] More and more of our imports come from overseas. - George W. Bush
#244. To: Zipporah (#117)
If it is not in your opinion , then what would you say it is? Any religion that does not acknowledge Jesus as the Son of God and savior of the world is a religion that has the spirit of anti-Christ. Any religion that has the spirit of anti-Christ is a religion that has its roots with the father of all lies, which is Satan.
No its not a satanist cult
God is always good!
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02] More and more of our imports come from overseas. - George W. Bush
#245. To: mehitable (#202)
This is just not true; you are being deceived by the outward appearance of "nice" people. BTW, you can be one of the nicest individuals in the whole world and still go to hell, rejecting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior is the unforgivable sin, and all who do it will go to hell. Satan is the one who started the big lie that he doesn't exist, those that believe that lie are already his followers whether they know it or not.
First off, Wiccans are not satanists. Those are two different things entirely. I've met a lot of Wiccans, and they're generally very nice people.
God is always good!
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02] More and more of our imports come from overseas. - George W. Bush
#246. To: RickyJ (#244)
Any religion that does not acknowledge Jesus as the Son of God and savior of the world is a religion that has the spirit of anti-Christ. Any religion that has the spirit of anti-Christ is a religion that has its roots with the father of all lies, which is Satan. The way he depicted it was that they were true satanists.. and the issue here wasnt religious discussion whatsoever it was to disrupt.. I agree with the scripture.. if you're not for me you're against me..
If it is not in your opinion , then what would you say it is?
#247. To: Zipporah (#246)
I can't believe how this thread has grown! I think last I saw it was up to around 80 something posts.
#248. To: Diana (#247)
Funny how sock puppets do manage to catch people's attention..
I can't believe how this thread has grown! I think last I saw it was up to around 80 something posts.
#249. To: RickyJ (#245)
"YOU WILL ACCEPT ME AND LOVE ME, MAKE ME NUMBER ONE IN YOUR LIFE OR ELSE I WILL THROW YOU DOWN INTO HELL FOR ETERNITY TO BE TORTURED FOREVER AND EVER!!" What a way to win a person over. Nice. Oops, I forgot, nice doesn't mean much to radicals.
#250. To: RickyJ (#245)
"BOIL THEIR ASSES IN OIL!!!" Ahhh... memories from the Crusades!
#251. To: RickyJ (#245)
Ricky, that's just silly. They ARE among the nicest people I've met - that's not just some fake facade they adopt. I've generally found them responsible for themselves and others and caring about how they live. Frankly, I've found them much nicer than many people who call themselves Christians. I'm not going to beat up on people just because they haven't found Christ. They are adults, they know how to read, they've grown up in a Christian culture - if it doesn' work for them or appeal to them, or they just outright reject Christianity, that is their business. I don't condemn anyone to hell for not believing as I do, that is the business of God. My business is to be as nice and kind to people as I can during this life, and do my best not to injure others. I fail frequently, but that's the goal.
"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."
#252. To: Diana (#249)
Hell is a real place and God puts no one there, people choose hell if they reject Jesus for their whole lives after they have heard the good news of forgiveness of sins and eternal life with God in Heaven. To pretend there is no hell, is a mistake. People need to know that there is such a very bad place while they are still on Earth so they can have a chance to avoid it.
God is always good!
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02] More and more of our imports come from overseas. - George W. Bush
#253. To: Diana (#250)
Ahhh... memories from the Crusades! I am praying for you.
"BOIL THEIR ASSES IN OIL!!!"
God is always good!
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02] More and more of our imports come from overseas. - George W. Bush
#254. To: mehitable (#251)
To not warn your friends and enemies for that matter about hell is mistake. Jesus certainly did warn people about eteranl hell.
I don't condemn anyone to hell for not believing as I do, that is the business of God.
God is always good!
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02] More and more of our imports come from overseas. - George W. Bush
#255. To: RickyJ (#254)
I think they're all aware of the concept. What actually happens when we tell people that they're going to hell if they don't believe as we do, is that they get angry and upset and just don't listen to us anymore. It's not an effective strategy. The best way of getting people to belief in Christ, or anything, is by providing a good example, and trying to live as He would. Then people figure you must have something good going on, and they want to find out about it.
"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."
#256. To: mehitable (#255)
Quite a bit of truth to what you say about how Evangelicals alienate. Working at Saturday Market in Portland on the Friday night set-up a young man offered me a sack lunch as a Christian group does in that part of town where the words 'skid row' were first coined. He didn't take no for an answer responded to my comment I was at work and didn't wish to be bothered when he kept pressuring me to take the bag by starting to 'witness his faith.' He's lucky Mr. Brown bag didn't end up ensconced in his rectal orifice. Whether is is trying to enjoy a beautiful Summer day in Pioneer Park despite the screeching of a thumper complete with an entourage of goons to harass any hecklers, trying to get one particular group there from censoring free periodicals from their assigned cubby holes in places there that have them, or trying to deal with any other example of in your face activity, it is annoying and deeply alienating what some of these characters do. People should not let their ego push them to the point they anger people to push back, because in the end they and their message will be discredited by many members of the community at large.
#257. To: RickyJ (#253)
Thankyou.
I am praying for you.
#258. To: RickyJ (#252)
Here's a question that begs to be asked. Why does God need me to worship him? Why would God give people only 2 choices? Worship him, or infernal damnation? Having a choice like that, is the same as having NO CHOICE. That totally negates FREE WILL RIGHT??? Oh but hell, this isn't about right or wrong, good or bad, this is about making sure that people continue to believe the lies put forth by people who sought to replace God in the first place. Every chapter, every word is a lie. Why would God need my praise? I mean, after all, he's God. Like he needs to hear an Atta Boy, or Way to go. I can understand he would appreciate a thank you now and again, but what with traffic in this town, I'm sure he hears plenty of that. Then there's the whole sex thing, which I'm sure he knows full well the bang up job he did in that arena, just as I'm sure he's heard all the disappointment. So, again, why would God need a bunch of talking monkeys to sing his praises, kill in his name, pay tithe and tribute to his talking monkey representatives, obey the most corrupt and vile leaders that God himself appoints over us, and of course, my favorite, allow so many other wannabe Christian faiths to pop up that could encroach on his monopoly of planet Tard? Do you know for a fact that there is a hell? More importantly, do you know for a fact that there's a heaven? Why would someone want to go to Heaven, to be God's indentured slave, after having had a shitty life on earth? No really, there are people every day who suffer needlessly, and when they die, if they go to heaven, they get the job of tending God's vineyards, or doing God's Laundry. Think about it for a minute. Does that sound like heaven? To be so happy to do laundry, or pick grapes? NO, it should sound absurd. How about Brave New World kind of absurd? Oh... and Hell? Do you think that all the bad people go to hell? Do you think Hitler is rotting in hell right now? Well according to popular Bible Belief, all you have to do is praise Jesus and accept him as your personal savior before you die, and guess what? YOU GET OUT OF HELL FREE CARD. So you got people like Jeffrey Dahmer, John Wayne Gacy, Adolf Hitler, Josef Goebbels, and I'm willing to bet a LOT of Nazis are in heaven because after all, their idea of hell would be surrounded by Jews, and having to do Jesus's underwear. You know, when I die, I'm pretty sure that God's gift of Free Will, probably extends past my life, and would allow me to run wild in the universe exploring. I mean, he did after all make this GIGANTIC cosmos. Do you think he would make such a big place, and love only ONE planet? Why create only ONE planet that he could love, and put his heart into, when it's so full of narrow minded morons who seek only to aggrandize themselves by believing the falsehood that their God, or their club is mightier than someone else's when God has created every human being in his image, and with equality in mind. So, with all that said Ricky, I know I'm not going to convince you that what I'm saying is right. What I'm saying is that not everyone who chooses Jesus goes to heaven, and not every devil ends up in hell. God doesn't play favorites, because everyone serves a purpose in his grand design.
Hell is a real place and God puts no one there, people choose hell if they reject Jesus for their whole lives after they have heard the good news of forgiveness of sins and eternal life with God in Heaven. To pretend there is no hell, is a mistake. People need to know that there is such a very bad place while they are still on Earth so they can have a chance to avoid it.
| What's that Mr. Nipples? You want me to ask the nice lady about her rack?. |
#259. To: Diana (#257)
I'm praying for you too.
| What's that Mr. Nipples? You want me to ask the nice lady about her rack?. |
#260. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#259)
Thankyou too.
#261. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#258)
He doesn't. God needs nothing from mankind whatsoever. He could let us all be doomed to our fate separated from him for eternity if he wanted to; instead he has given us a choice to live with him forever or not. He doesn't need us at all; he loves us.
Why does God need me to worship him?
God is always good!
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02] More and more of our imports come from overseas. - George W. Bush
#262. To: Ferret Mike (#256)
I've had personal experience with this. There was a group of young evangelicals - Mormons I believe (who have a strong missionary tradition) who were plying the local bus routes. I had a couple of them sit next to me on the bus in a way that I couldn't get out easily - one on my side and one in front of me - and at first they just tried to be chummy and friendly and then BOOM alongs comes the religious pitch. Well, no offense to them, but I'm not interested in their religion, so I said no, but they kept asking me questions and finally I just had to get rude and tell them I was NOT interested in what they had to say and I wanted them to leave me alone. This kind of behavior is insulting and rude to people, and really obnoxious. I actually am a Christian (a pretty poor one, I admit) but I was offended by their behavior and I can only imagine what people must think who are not even Christians. We really have to be aware of how we come across to other people and treat them with respect even if we disagree. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. I don't object to someone passing out flyers or even preaching in certain areas, but there are limits to everything.
"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."
#263. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#258)
Those are all excellent questions Tommy. You really should write a column, you write very well.
"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."
#264. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#258)
The end times stuff doesn't make any sense to me for this reason. All the ranting about the anti-christ and the tribulation and such. If God knows how it is going to turn out, why bother to go through with it in the first place? Is God that bored? Does he need a vast cosmic puppet show to keep him entertained?
That totally negates FREE WILL RIGHT???
.
#265. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#258)
"planet Tard" lol!
allow so many other wannabe Christian faiths to pop up that could encroach on his monopoly of planet Tard?
#266. To: RickyJ (#261)
Being separated from God? I'd like to think that my corporeal existence separates me from a lot of things, and the very fact that I'm not a spirit riding the ethereal plane means right now, I'm separated from God by this fleshy cocoon, just like every other talking monkey. The difference here is, I have no illusions about that separation, just like I have no illusion of what Free Will and Freedom Of Choice is. Everyone is given free will, yet everyone is part of God's grand design. That's a paradox. How can you possibly have free will, when you're basically doing God's bidding playing your part on the grand stage that is your life? You can't have free will can you? Just like you don't have a choice. If you were being apprehended by the cops, or let's make it even worse... You're in a concentration camp. You're told to dig a hole, along with a bunch of others. If you don't dig the hole, you die. If you dig the hole, chances are that's where you're going to end up. What do you do? You're dead either way, no matter what choice you make. In effect, YOU HAVE NO FREEDOM OF CHOICE, only the illusion of choice. God doesn't give you free will, only to send you to hell if you don't choose what he chooses FOR YOU. Do you think that for one minute that an almighty God is going to need me to be his slave for eternity? Isn't that kind of weird that a kind and benevolent God would need adoring worshippers to slave away for him for eternity? What kind of God needs me to do his laundry? Is he not powerful enough to do it himself with a blink of an eye? I'm not tearing down God here, I'm tearing down your argument that he gives ANYONE A CHOICE. He does NOT give you a choice Ricky, and by your failed rationale here that he gives a choice to live, or not live in his grace, proves just how ignorant of reality you are. It would be like God putting a Gun to your spiritual soul, and saying you're either with me, or you're against me. I'd like to think that the God above that created me, likes me the way I am, otherwise he wouldn't have made me a pain in the ass. God likes people who ask questions because it's that divine mandate that we search for truth to our existence that makes his place in the universe that much more powerful. You can believe that you have this choice, but for me to take away your ignorance, would be like trying to teach sign language to a goldfish. You simply don't have the ability to understand.
| What's that Mr. Nipples? You want me to ask the nice lady about her rack?. |
#267. To: Ferret Mike (#256)
When I was sometimes asked the question "have you been saved yet" my preferred answer was "not from you".
Pray you will never know, the hell where youth and laughter go - Siegfried Sassoon. Ypres, Autumn 1914.
#268. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#258)
Very well designed to mess us up, combining genitalia and sexual organs with those that excrete the body's waste products.
the whole sex thing, which I'm sure he knows full well the bang up job
Pray you will never know, the hell where youth and laughter go - Siegfried Sassoon. Ypres, Autumn 1914.
#269. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#266)
Your post is very well reasoned and resonates with me. (and, for the record, I am not a satanist)
#270. To: swarthyguy (#268)
Ha! I hadn't quite looked at it like that, but it's true!
Very well designed to mess us up, combining genitalia and sexual organs with those that excrete the body's waste products.
#271. To: Pandora (#269)
I didn't think you were. I'm of the mind that the universe is a pretty big place, and I'm pretty sure that God didn't create it just so us Earthlings could create industries based on the stars such as Astronomy, Astrology, and my favorite, UFOs.
| What's that Mr. Nipples? You want me to ask the nice lady about her rack?. |
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