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Religion
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Title: WHY IS A MARRIED JESUS SO THREATENING TO THE CHURCH?
Source: www.rumormillnews.com
URL Source: http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=88821
Published: May 18, 2006
Author: RMN
Post Date: 2006-05-22 07:18:21 by Mind_Virus
Keywords: None
Views: 745
Comments: 52

WHY IS A MARRIED JESUS SO THREATENING TO THE CHURCH?

Date: Thursday, 18 May 2006, 4:25 p.m.

Is it because the Church has been exposed in a huge two thousand year long cover-up?

Was Jesus not virginal and celibate after all? He called himself the "son of man", emphasizing his human side. His followers called him "Rabbi", and rabbis were married men. With families. (Infertility was a valid reason for divorce among the Jews in Jesus' time. It still is, among Muslims whose traditions are very similar.)

So what, pray tell, is so shocking about Jesus being a married man? Does it really take away from his "divinity"? (Only for the brainwashed, surely.) Jesus' divinity vs humanity was a huge bone of contention among the earliest Christians who insisted that it had to be "either or". Instead of BOTH. In the early years of Christianity when few could read and ignorance was even more rampant than now (!) much blood was shed over this issue.

But the implications of Jesus having a family go much deeper....

gigi's post below suggests much older, deeper and darker Church secrets. From my own studies I have some sense of what those might be. The following thoughts are JMO---from three decades of studying this topic. And from investigative traveling in the south of France and in the MidEast.

*******************************

Ever since I read "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" in l982 I began to ponder why the Church was so desperate to suppress the idea of Jesus having progeny. The following ideas came to mind:

(A) Any direct bloodline descendants of Jesus would be the natural spiritual leaders of the Church-not the elected popes and cardinals. Thus the heirarchy and entire Roman political power structure of the Church would be threatened. Forever and ever.

(B) Some of the early Church leaders must have recognized that Jesus' extraordinary powers (healing, psychic abilities, "miracles", etc.) were derived from (what many believe is) extraterrestrial/human hybrid ancestry. The "gods" were known to have such superhuman skills. Consider that the "angel" Gabriel announced to Mary that she would conceive by the Holy Spirit. Is it so hard to imagine that "God" could arrange a "divine" pregnancy such as we saw with the Nefilim (the "gods" in Genesis 4), with Abraham's disbelieving Sarah, and in recent times with UFO abductees? Mankind has long viewed ET's as "divine" gods due to their advanced powers.

A heavily suppressed but age-old truth is that our planet has been periodically and continually seeded by extraterrestrials for many millenia. The bees frequently found in esoteric and Church d33;cor are indications of the divine "flying ones"...for those who Know. The symbolism of the "tower" also refers to early ET technology. "Magdala" means TOWER.

(C) A sacred bloodline with extraordinary spiritual powers would have to be eradicated if the politics of the early Roman Church were to successfully dominate the "civilized" world. Ancient sacred mysteries and knowledge were suppressed or declared heresy. For example, slaves and ordinary people could not be allowed to know the basic truth of reincarnation (karmic justice and continuous life is too hopeful). Most (not all) references to it were apparently edited out of the canonical scriptures. Its champion, the cleric Origen, was declared "anathema" and expelled by the Council of Nicea (325 CE) where scriptures were approved (canon) or censored (apocrypha/heresy). So the pogroms began....

Those who insist that the Bible was written by men have a strong argument if they are referring to the editing and censoring done at Nicea. :<))

(D) The once powerful Knights Templar are believed to have guarded the holy grail, now finally understood as the holy bloodline itself. During the first millenium CE the sacred bloodline became the French royal "Merovingian" line which the Church tried to eradicate-unsuccessfuly. The royal houses of Europe all wanted to interbreed with this line, and many did so. These facts must have been known to Pope Clement (who showed NO "clemency"!) when he, collaborating with the French king in 1307, ordered the mass arrest, trials, tortures and executions of the Templars.

At that point the majority of the Templars fled and dispersed by land and sea to many countries, and went "underground". Thence they have operated in the shadows, presumably still protecting the holy grail/bloodline. From them are descended the Freemasons who were later infiltrated by the Illuminati (founded only in May 1776 by Weisskopf of Bavaria.)

(E) The "Priory of Sion" may (or may not) be a modern invention serving as a "red herring" (false lead) to protect the identity of the actual bloodline (holy grail). There are now certainly millions who knowingly--and unknowingly--carry the sacred bloodline of Jesus and Mary from their daughter "Sarah" (meaning "royal").

People refer to the "children" of Jesus and Mary, but I am not aware of others besides Sarah whose existence is heavily documented in French legends, churches, and folklore. If any reader knows anything about siblings of Sarah, I would like to know references, sources, etc. (Thank you!)

A Merovingian direct descendant, Princess Diana was evidently chosen to help to empower the failing British monarchy with her sacred-blooded sons. We may remember that her older sister SARAH (!) was the Windsors' first choice, but was probably not a virgin, a royal requirement. So the job fell to young Diana. The goddess of the hunt, Diana gave the Windsors a "run for their money"--and two holy-blooded heirs.

Pierre Plantard, the current head of the Priory of Sion has now sworn that he invented the Priory in the l950's.

The Church and TV producers have swallowed his story whole, since it suits their Church agenda of discrediting the idea of a bloodline. Others insist that the Priory was founded in l099 by the Knights Templar as a secret organization to document the sacred bloodline.

(F) Imagine: if millions now carry the bloodline of Jesus, might this not be one aspect of the promised "Second Coming?" A "Second Coming" not controlled by any organized religion, but fed as the universal "Christ Consciousness" through humanity itself! :<))

******************* So whether or not you choose to see "The DaVinci Code" film. do consider the provocative questions it raises. And look into the rapidly expanding source material like "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" (1982-in paperback) and discern the truth for yourself.

Truth now prevails increasingly. Suppression, no matter how "loud" is no longer possible in this new millenium of "Truthtime".

Blessings and enLightenment to all~~ Namaskar

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#1. To: Mind_Virus (#0)

Because it would prove the Bible is a lie.

The mind once expanded by a new idea never returns to its' original size

Itisa1mosttoolate  posted on  2006-05-22   7:29:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Itisa1mosttoolate, Mind_Virus, all (#1)

Because it would prove the Bible is a lie.

Source: Presbytera Constantinou of the Greek Orthodox Church.

...What about "secret" writings that were suppressed, as claimed by the Da Vinci Code?

The word apocrypha means, hidden. (Perhaps this is where the author of Da Vinci Code got his ideas.) People who wrote these counterfeit books had a problem: how to get people to read the books. Why would anyone read these books when Christians already had a New Testament? To encourage people to read these counterfeit Christian books (apocrypha) that came into existence much later than the genuine books, people claimed the apocrypha were written by the apostles and contained hidden or secret teachings of Jesus available only to an elite few. (This is something like enticing people to participate in a financial scam where they are promised that only a few will be allowed "in" on the secret of how to get rich.) The authors of these counterfeit books wrote them to promote their heresies, such as Gnosticism. Gnosticism was a serious problem in the early Church. Gnostics denied the human nature of Christ. They said that Christ was only divine, one of many divine beings that exist. He only seemed to be human and only seemed to die on the cross. This heresy is called "Docetism," from the Greek word dokeo "to seem" or "to appear." Gnostics claimed that Jesus did not come to earth to die of the salvation of human beings. He came to earth to reveal secret knowledge about how to get to heaven to a few elite "spiritual" disciples. The only people who could go to heaven were those who had acquired the secret knowledge (gnosis). How does this compare to what we know about the Lord? On the contrary, the Lord made a point of having a very public ministry. To say that people were saved only by secret knowledge would be to make His whole life and teachings a lie, as well as making the existence and purpose of the Christian Church entirely pointless. In fact, the Lord stated that He taught nothing secretly. When He was brought to the high priest Annas, who questioned Him about His teachings, the Lord replied, "I have spoken openly to the world. I have always taught in synagogues and in the temple, where all Jews come together. I have said nothing secretly. Why do you ask me? Ask those who have heard me what I said to them. They know what I said." (John. 18:20-21. For this reply a guard struck the Lord.).

The Da Vinci Code is a work of fiction, but the author claims it is based on fact. However, its details are factually untrue or the interpretation or meaning he gives them are untrue. His skill as a writer and his obvious anti-Christian and anti-Catholic agenda have led many people to question their faith and to at least wonder whether the book is true. The author says that the powerful interests in the Catholic Church -- "The Vatican" -- suppressed information about Christ. First, the Catholic Church did not exist as a separate entity until the 11th century. The powerful and highly organized Vatican he describes did not evolve until even later than that. Secondly, in the first centuries of Christianity, the Church did not have the type of organization or centralized leadership, such as the modern papacy, which would make possible the suppression of details about the life of Christ. The author claims the Church concealed the fact that Jesus was married and had children. It also claims that Mary Magdalene was the chief apostle and that Jesus was an ordinary human being, not divine at all. It should be noted there would have been no reason for the Church to hide a marriage of Jesus, were it true. Marriage is not a sin. Had Jesus been married there would have been nothing sinful in that or in his having children. The baby and the marital relationship, had it been true, far from being hidden would have been extremely important in the early Church, just as His mother was extremely important in the early Church. Jesus would have presumably been the model of a married man, rather than the model of a celibate man. Christians would have been accustomed to the idea. In truth and fact, Jesus never married because He knew the purpose of His coming to earth was to die on the cross and He was completely devoted to this purpose. There would have been no point in getting married.

Could the Church have suppressed such information if it wanted to do so?

No, it would have been impossible for the Church to erase or expunge every writing that would have made mention of Jesus being married or having a child because that type of centralized control never existed in the early Church. It also would have been impossible because books were hand-copied in antiquity and there was no control over the process of who copied books and who acquired them.

Could the Da Vinci Code claims be true nonetheless? Is there any evidence that Jesus was married?

There are many, many Christian writings of different types – from the end of the first century through the second century and beyond - and none of these ever mention Jesus being married or having a child. Even the apocryphal gospels of the third and fourth centuries never mention anything like that. This idea is entirely imaginary. The author of the Da Vinci Code also claims that Mary Magdalene was the leading apostle. First, be aware there is a strong feminist movement pushing this idea as part of a larger agenda, along with the idea that God is male-female and that the Church is somehow anti-female. But, in fact. women had important leadership positions in the early Church, including that of "apostle." But the term apostle had a wider meaning in the early Church. The Greek word apostle, apostelos, means "one who is sent." Jesus sent many people to preach, not simply The Twelve. The term apostle as used in the early Church meant someone who had been part of the earthly ministry of Church before the crucifixion and who had also witness him after the Resurrection alive again. (See Romans 16:7 for mention of apostles who are not among the Twelve). Apostle was not used to mean what it does today, a term synonymous with The Twelve. In fact, the Bible calls The Twelve, simply that: "The Twelve" (See Luke 22:3, John 20:24. In Luke 24:33 he calls them "the Eleven," without Judas). Since apostle did note mean The Twelve as it does for us today, it is correct to say that women, such as Mary Magdalene, Fotini (the Samaritan woman at the well), and Junia, mentioned in Romans 16:7 were among the female apostles of the early Church. Is there any hinted conspiracy behind the Last Supper painting by Leonardo Da Vinci? The author of the Da Vinci code claims that one of the figures portrayed among The Twelve was a woman. The obvious and simple answer is that Leonardo Da Vinci would have had absolutely no historical knowledge of what first century Jewish garments looked like. Ancient Jews did not create paintings or statues, so Leonardo relied solely on his imagination in his painting. There is nothing historical about the painting, including what was on the table or even the fact that The Twelve are seated around a table.

"People should not be afraid of their governments, governments should be afraid of their people." -- V

scooter  posted on  2006-05-22   9:57:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: scooter (#2)

In truth and fact, Jesus never married because He knew the purpose of His coming to earth was to die on the cross and He was completely devoted to this purpose. There would have been no point in getting married.

i agree. well reasoned post, scooter.

The Impossible Dream

christine  posted on  2006-05-22   10:29:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Mind_Virus (#0)

Well, I can't speak for the Church, of course, but I think all of us as sentient beings with a knowledge and love for history (of all kinds) have to report the truth on the Da Vinci Code, which is that it is pure bunk and nonsense. Nothing that Brown has put in the book is true. That's just the simple bottom line. I could as easily say that Christ was a space alien and that varioius things in Picasso's paintings prove that, and have just as much veracity. Nonsense is nonsense. The idea of a married Christ may appeal to some folks, but if there's no proof, there's no proof.

Beyond that - I think what religious people might object to (and again, I'm not addressing any of the Catholic Church's concern) is the idea that's being bruited about by Brown, etc, that Jesus had to be JUST LIKE US. He had to be interested in sex, married a woman, had kids, whatever - because it makes him JUST LIKE US. and if he is JUST LIKE US - he has no moral authority OVER US. Why should we listen to some guy who's just like us, even if he's a really nice, great guy? His opinion would hold no more weight than Joe Blow's down the street.

"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."

mehitable  posted on  2006-05-22   10:36:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Mind_Virus, it'salmosttoolate, All (#0)

Boy Abe Foxman sure was pissed over Mel Gibson's Jesus movie, where he said all these Christians would go around lynching Jews all over the world over it. Of course that never happened.

However, Foxman and his cohorts feel they must seek revenge, and I think all this DiVinci Code crap and it's implications is just that. I notice Drudge has been putting up tons of articles about it, like it's the most important movie of all time.

Diana  posted on  2006-05-22   10:43:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: scooter (#2)

The books that were excluded from the Bible were debated probably for centuries. They were created many many years - sometimes centuries - after Christ's death, so they were not first hand accounts. One might say that the 4 main books of the NT are not either, but I think most of them were written in a closer time frame than these Apocryphal books. I think the early Church had an inherent right to review all the various books, debate them, and then to decide what to include - otherwise how would they have been able to establish a cohesive church with a dogma that all could believe (or be forced to believe).

That said, I don't think any of the Apocryphal books even assert that Christ was married. They give a more prominent role to Magadalene as an apostle, and that's all.

As for Da Vinci's paintings, Da Vinci, like most artists of the time, followed certain conventions in portraying certain situations and individuals. The Last Supper, according to most scholarship, presents the apostles and their varied reactions to Christ's statement that "one of you will betray me". The picture is about that psychological moment rather than the actual Eucharist. As for the garments they're wearing, I don't think painters of the time were remotely interested in historical accuracy and anachronisms and inaccuracies would be rife throughout most paintings. They just weren't interested in that, and as you say, they frequently didn't have the info anyway.

The apostle John, in the Last Supper (the allegedly feminine figure charged to be Magadalene) was traditionally portrayed in the art of that time as a young student type, frequently rather effeminate looking. This John might have been even more effeminate looking than the other's because Leonardo was gay.

There's no hidden meaning in this picture. Leonardo sometimes put jokes or symbols in his pictures, but nothing nefarious or bizarre, and I think the meanings were well understood within the artistic context of his time.

"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."

mehitable  posted on  2006-05-22   10:46:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: christine, scooter, Zipporah, Starwind (#3)

There would have been no point in getting married.

The O.T. teachings were full of being against adultry. God even likened the Israelites worship of heathen gods/idols as being harlotry/whoredom of His wife (the chosen people). There's a commandment specifically against adultry.

The N.T. portrays the followers of Christ, the church, as being His (Christ) bride.

It would seem to be that Christ couldn't do this were he married to Mary Magdalene or anyone else--that would be a portrayal of adultry, which the Father is against.

That's how I see this whole affair.

rowdee  posted on  2006-05-22   10:50:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: scooter (#2)

The Da Vinci Code is a work of fiction, but the author claims it is based on fact. However, its details are factually untrue or the interpretation or meaning he gives them are untrue. His skill as a writer and his obvious anti-Christian and anti-Catholic agenda have led many people to question their faith and to at least wonder whether the book is true.

As it was meant to do.

Then the movie was made by those pushing this agenda, and how long are we going to have to hear about it... It is being so heavily promoted, I'm afraid this nonsense will go on and on till we are all sick of it, even those of us who can't even call ourselves proper Christians.

Diana  posted on  2006-05-22   10:51:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Diana, Eoghan, Itisa1mosttoolate (#5)

Boy Abe Foxman sure was pissed over Mel Gibson's Jesus movie, where he said all these Christians would go around lynching Jews all over the world over it. Of course that never happened.

However, Foxman and his cohorts feel they must seek revenge, and I think all this DiVinci Code crap and it's implications is just that. I notice Drudge has been putting up tons of articles about it, like it's the most important movie of all time.

Good analysis, I agree. I've been speaking about this new movie like it's another Indiana Jones movie, which IMO that's how accurate it is.

To imply that a novel/movie can suddenly reveal some deep dark secret of 2,000 years of Christendom is ludicrous.

Fact is, the Talmud has all kinds of strange crap about non-Jews. Hollywood will never let that movie out.

Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism. – George Washington

"If the president made us go to war with Iraq, why doesn't he go over there and fight the war?" Christian May [6th grader]

robin  posted on  2006-05-22   10:52:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: All, A K A Stone (#8)

Excuse me, Da Vinci.

(I'm starting to sound like Stone!)

Diana  posted on  2006-05-22   10:59:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: robin (#9)

To imply that a novel/movie can suddenly reveal some deep dark secret of 2,000 years of Christendom is ludicrous.

I remember when the book came out all these pseudo intellectual types were forming discussion groups about it, I only knew the basic premise of the book though I knew right off what was going on.

I'm not a bit suprised the movie was made, I do hope it bombs, no matter what those raving about it and promoting it say.

Diana  posted on  2006-05-22   11:11:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Diana, christine, scooter, mehitable, rowdee, *Bereans* (#5)

However, Foxman and his cohorts feel they must seek revenge, and I think all this DiVinci Code crap and it's implications is just that. I notice Drudge has been putting up tons of articles about it, like it's the most important movie of all time.

Observe that movies, books, religions, philosophies, cults, etc that elevate or substitute man-made "wisdom" over the plain biblical truth that Jesus Christ is the begotten Son of God who sacrificed Himself to offer the free gift of eternal salvation to anyone who willingly accepts it with gratitude and loyal trust in Christ, have always been pushed to the forefront in human awareness - they always seem to be of utmost importance.

There is a reason. Let me unpack that for you.

Since the Serpent enticed Adam & Eve to defy God's express instructions, thru the false charges of blasphemy levied against Christ Himself, Satan has sought to undermine God's creation and subvert it to Satan's will - all in a futile effort to exalt himself to be like God. Paul elaborated on this spiritual conflict when he said:

Eph 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.

Satan's goal has always been and continues to be to either, prevent people from coming under Christ's sovereignty or if they have, then to blunt their usefulness to Christ. Satan's principal tool has always been lies. Any plausible lie will do. Satan doesn't care what people believe so long as it isn't Jesus Christ. This is the meaning when Jesus said:

Mat 7:13-14 "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. (14) "For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

The broad road leading to destruction is indeed very broad; the lies and deceptions that people pursue in ignorance or denial of the truth are innumerable. While the gate leading to life is indeed narrow; it is Christ alone and sadly very few seem inclined to even search for it let alone find it.

By example, recall how a handful of tobacco companies used to wage innumerable ad campaigns positioning their own brands against each other, as if one cigarette was really better than another. The tobacco companies didn't really care which one you bought because they owned all brands and their goal was to increase the size of the overall market (ie, make more profit-generating addicts). It was only against not smoking that the real battle was waged, and we all know how deceptive and ugly that got. Similarly, when you observe these very public 'battles' over biblical truth they invariably are efforts to disprove or discredit the Bible or Christianity. Rarely do you see such debates over the 'truth' of Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, mysticism, naturalism, -ism, -ism, -ism. Because Satan doesn't care which one of those you believe or not so long as you believe at least one of them, whereas Satan cares very much that you not believe Jesus Christ.

With the Da Vinci Code you have a well written intriging story, falsely portrayed as well-researched fact and purporting to reveal 'destructive truths' that the Christian church has tried to conceal; 'truths' that ostensibly prove that Jesus Christ was not who He claimed. Well, that is the lie, plain and simple, and it is a very old lie but dressed up as modern conspiracy theory.

It is a lie that many want to believe because they dislike being told that Christ is sovereign and died for their sins - they don't like God's law that defines sin or their being sinners under that law - hence the human prideful defiance that there is any such law or consequences therefrom. The same deception the Serpent used on Adam & Eve - the subversive 'innocent' question " did God really say" has been rephrased as "was Christ (and His church) really honest". Satan understands human pride and defiance all too well and plays on it often.

The Da Vinci Code appeals to human pride of being smart enough to 'uncover the truth' and defiance in 'proving God was wrong'. Consequently it is "like it's the most important movie of all time", but only to Satan, not to God or Christ's church.

Proving that 'the Bible is a lie' is itself a plausible lie, but a lie whose plausibility rests entirely on ignorance of what the Bible actually says and what history actually records.

(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)

Starwind  posted on  2006-05-22   12:16:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Starwind (#12)

Satan's goal has always been and continues to be to either, prevent people from coming under Christ's sovereignty or if they have, then to blunt their usefulness to Christ. Satan's principal tool has always been lies. Any plausible lie will do. Satan doesn't care what people believe so long as it isn't Jesus Christ. This is the meaning when Jesus said:

The satanists on this forum don't want that truth to get out. Pandora, Morgan le fay, the fag indian, mike ferret.

Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson

A K A Stone  posted on  2006-05-22   12:23:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Starwind (#12)

Similarly, when you observe these very public 'battles' over biblical truth they invariably are efforts to disprove or discredit the Bible or Christianity. Rarely do you see such debates over the 'truth' of Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, mysticism, naturalism, -ism, -ism, -ism. Because Satan doesn't care which one of those you believe or not so long as you believe at least one of them, whereas Satan cares very much that you not believe Jesus Christ.

Never thought of that, but I think you are right on target.

All around brilliant post! Also good point of how it appeals to the human pride, making people feel smart and superior.

Diana  posted on  2006-05-22   12:29:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: A K A Stone (#13)

The satanists on this forum don't want that truth to get out.

Your mislabeling "wiccans" as "satanists" is to mislabel one lie for another and does not help to expose the lie. Lies are often subtle, half truths, and while the enemy is ultimately always Satan, his propaganda comes in many guises and confusing them helps no one.

the fag indian, mike ferret.

Casting aspersions on someone's screen name likewise does little to enhance your credibility.

While I understand and agree with your desire to 'take a stand for Christ', as Christians we should debate honestly on the facts or keep quiet.

(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)

Starwind  posted on  2006-05-22   12:37:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Starwind (#15)

I always debate honestly. Wicca is a made up religion based on various satanic cults.

Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson

A K A Stone  posted on  2006-05-22   12:40:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Diana (#14)

Also good point of how it appeals to the human pride, making people feel smart and superior.

Indeed, human pride and fear are the most primitive of emotions and are the core of much human sin. It is subjecting these base human emotions to control of the indwelt Holy Spirit that the transformation of a "born again" believer achieves.

Observe pretty much any human behavior. Look for the underlying pride or fear, and you will find the chink in their spiritual armour which Satan is exploiting.

(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)

Starwind  posted on  2006-05-22   12:43:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: A K A Stone (#13)

The satanists on this forum don't want that truth to get out. Pandora, Morgan le fay, the fag indian, mike ferret.

Post the link proving that Morgan and I are satanist, or even wiccans, or admit you are a liar.

You are caught here and I expect you to you squirm for fifty or so posts to avoid admitting your lie. Be forwarned, I am prepared to prove your lie. As Yelda Roob told you on the other site, you are just compounding the damage when you lie about your lies. Here is the link to where she caught you in a lie this morning and warned you:

http://www.postliberty.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5128

Pandora  posted on  2006-05-22   12:45:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: A K A Stone (#13)

I have asked you to cease referring to me as a satanist. I am not. I do not worship satan. You claim to be a christian, yet your language, epithets, and judgmentalism defy that claim.

Pandora  posted on  2006-05-22   12:45:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Pandora (#18)

Post the link proving that Morgan and I are satanist, or even wiccans, or admit you are a liar.

#22. To: Pandora (#20)

http://freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=26558

Title: The Nine Principles of the Goddess Source: Sacred Texts URL Source: http://www.sacred-texts.com/wmn/bog/bog02.htm Published: May 20, 2006 Author: Unknown Post Date: 2006-05-20 02:25:01 by Pandora Keywords: None 242 Comments

Here is an interesting philosophy. I've always liked this:

The Nine Principles of the Goddess

1. I acknowledge that there is one Goddess in essence, Creatrix of all existences; Her forms are infinite, She manifests Herself in our love, and we are all Her lovers.

2. Treat all beings with reciprocity, for the Goddess lives in them as well as in us.

3. Tolerate other religions and do not compel others to join the circle of the Goddess: the Goddess will draw those to Her who are ready and hear Her call.

4. Worship Her by restoring balance to Her planet.

5. Eat mostly grains, vegetables and fruits, so that there will be enough food for all; when you eat thank the Goddess, the provider of all energy. It is not forbidden to eat animal flesh in moderation, but when you do so you must thank the animal that you eat as well.

6. In the circle of the Goddess create consensus while respecting diversity of opinion. On the path of the Goddess there are many paths.

7. In your home create a sacred space for the Goddess to please Her. Meditate on the Goddess three times a day, at rising, at noon and at sundown.

8. Sexuality is Her sacrament; enjoy this gift and bless those who you share it with love and affection. Remember that overcoming jealousy is the cause of cessation of the cycle of rebirth.

9. Announce the religion of the Goddess to the world through good works, honest words and selfless acts of beauty and love.

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A K A Stone posted on 2006-05-22 12:43:11 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson

A K A Stone  posted on  2006-05-22   12:51:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: A K A Stone (#20)

LOL!!

So what? I thought the article was interesting. This makes me and everyone else a satanist?

You posted an article on communism the other week. Does this make you a communist?

Why don't you make a list of the topics you will allow us to discuss and not discuss. Then we will be safe from your slander.

One more time:

Post the link proving that Morgan and I are satanist, or even wiccans, or admit you are a liar.

You are caught here and I expect you to you squirm for fifty or so posts. Be forwarned, I am prepared to prove your lie. As Yelda Roob told you, you are just compounding the damage when you lie about your lies.

You are spinnig already.

Pandora  posted on  2006-05-22   12:57:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: A K A Stone (#20)

You don't have a link to prove up your slander do you.

That is why you are now going to jump from subjet to subject in an attempt to hide your dishonesty.

Pandora  posted on  2006-05-22   12:58:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Pandora (#21)

Why don't you make a list of the topics you will allow us to discuss and not discuss. Then we will be safe from your slander

Its not my forum. Christine runs this place. I think she lets us talk about most anything.

Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson

A K A Stone  posted on  2006-05-22   12:59:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Pandora (#22)

That is why you are now going to jump from subjet to subject in an attempt to hide your dishonesty.

Spoken like a true satanist witch that you are.

Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson

A K A Stone  posted on  2006-05-22   13:00:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: A K A Stone (#24)

Spoken like a true satanist witch that you are.

Spoken in an attempt to change the subject. In an effort to avoid the lie.

Post the link proving that Morgan and I are satanist, or even wiccans, or admit you are a liar.

You are caught here and I expect you to you squirm for fifty or so posts. Be forwarned, I am prepared to prove your lie. As Yelda Roob told you, you are just compounding the damage when you lie about your lies.

Note that expect you to hurl many insults and to make many more attempts to change the subject in an attempt to avoid addressing your baseless charge. I won't fall for it.

Pandora  posted on  2006-05-22   13:02:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: A K A Stone (#24)

1. You lied about Morgan and I being Satanists.

2. You lied about Morgan and I being Wiccans.

3. You don't have a shred of proof for this baseless slander.

4. You are now sqirming to avoid your prior lies.

Post your proof and save your reputation.

Pandora  posted on  2006-05-22   13:06:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Pandora (#25)

Listen here witch. Everyone sees the satanic symbols that morgan has as her tagline. You two use the same symbols to promote that hellish place you two came from.

Everyone knows you are a satanist witch. Some people just dont want to tell you. Believe me they are telling me in private messages.

Boo

be gone witch.

Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson

A K A Stone  posted on  2006-05-22   13:06:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: A K A Stone (#24)

The little that is left of your reputation.

Pandora  posted on  2006-05-22   13:07:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: A K A Stone (#27)

Listen here witch. Everyone sees the satanic symbols that morgan has as her tagline. You two use the same symbols to promote that hellish place you two came from.

Everyone knows you are a satanist witch. Some people just dont want to tell you. Believe me they are telling me in private messages.

I assume you have nothing other than your raw opinion to support this. That would be typical.

Now post the link proving that Morgan and I are satanist, or even wiccans, or admit you are a liar.

The phrase "everyone knows" is asure indicaton that a person has no support for his position.

You are caught here and I expect you to you squirm for fifty or so posts. Be forwarned, I am prepared to prove your lie. As Yelda Roob told you, you are just compounding the damage when you lie about your lies.

I am calling you a deliberate, calculated liar here. Prove me wrong. So far you have done nothing but flail about and hurl insults.

Note that expect you to hurl many more insults and to make many more attempts to change the subject. I won't fall for it.

Pandora  posted on  2006-05-22   13:10:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: A K A Stone (#27)

Your dishonsty has been proven up in several places over the past couple of days. Here is one instance from this morning:

http://www.postliberty.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5128

Your unsupported slander against myself and Morgan is another instance.

Post the link proving up your claim. Save what is left of your reputation.

Pandora  posted on  2006-05-22   13:13:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Pandora (#30)

Your unsupported slander against myself and Morgan is another instance.

Are you lesbian lovers? I think so. witch

Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson

A K A Stone  posted on  2006-05-22   13:14:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: A K A Stone (#31)

Are you lesbian lovers? I think so. witch

Little boy, you are not going to get out of your lie by making me angry and changing the subject. Did your mother let you get away with that tactic?

If you think that, then post your proof, or admit you are again lying.

And while you are at it, post the link proving that Morgan and I are satanist, or even wiccans, or again admit you are a liar.

You are caught here and I expect you to you squirm for fifty or so posts. Be forwarned, I am prepared to prove your lie. As Yelda Roob told you, you are just compounding the damage when you lie about your lies.

Note that expect you to hurl many more insults and to make many more attempts to change the subject. I won't fall for it. I will make you either prove up you slander or admit it was a lie.

Pandora  posted on  2006-05-22   13:27:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Pandora (#32)

If you think that, then post your proof, or admit you are again lying.

It was a question. I don't know the answer. I do know you are a satanist though.

Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it - Thomas Jefferson

A K A Stone  posted on  2006-05-22   13:29:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Diana (#8)

As it was meant to do.

Then the movie was made by those pushing this agenda, and how long are we going to have to hear about it... It is being so heavily promoted, I'm afraid this nonsense will go on and on till we are all sick of it, even those of us who can't even call ourselves proper Christians.

I admit that I saw the movie over the weekend and loved it. It was a good movie and that's all it was, a good movie. Doesn't cause me to question anything. I may read the book at some point, or not. Haven't decided.

The only concern I have is of those who aren't aware of Church history and for whatever reason, won't take the time to do some investigation. People who will take what they see and hear in this age of media and treat it is unquestioned truth. And yes, there does seem to be an agenda at work. The Gospel of Judas release just prior to Easter and this movie's release the weekend prior to the Roman Catholic observence of Ascension Day (Thursday, 25th; Orthodox 6/1)) don't seem like accidents. Like Christ's parable of the roots on various soils, those who have shallow roots (or no roots at all) will be easily swayed. And that is probably intended.

"People should not be afraid of their governments, governments should be afraid of their people." -- V

scooter  posted on  2006-05-22   13:36:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: mehitable (#6)

The books that were excluded from the Bible were debated probably for centuries. They were created many many years - sometimes centuries - after Christ's death, so they were not first hand accounts. One might say that the 4 main books of the NT are not either, but I think most of them were written in a closer time frame than these Apocryphal books. I think the early Church had an inherent right to review all the various books, debate them, and then to decide what to include - otherwise how would they have been able to establish a cohesive church with a dogma that all could believe (or be forced to believe).

That said, I don't think any of the Apocryphal books even assert that Christ was married. They give a more prominent role to Magadalene as an apostle, and that's all.

As for Da Vinci's paintings, Da Vinci, like most artists of the time, followed certain conventions in portraying certain situations and individuals. The Last Supper, according to most scholarship, presents the apostles and their varied reactions to Christ's statement that "one of you will betray me". The picture is about that psychological moment rather than the actual Eucharist. As for the garments they're wearing, I don't think painters of the time were remotely interested in historical accuracy and anachronisms and inaccuracies would be rife throughout most paintings. They just weren't interested in that, and as you say, they frequently didn't have the info anyway.

The apostle John, in the Last Supper (the allegedly feminine figure charged to be Magadalene) was traditionally portrayed in the art of that time as a young student type, frequently rather effeminate looking. This John might have been even more effeminate looking than the other's because Leonardo was gay.

There's no hidden meaning in this picture. Leonardo sometimes put jokes or symbols in his pictures, but nothing nefarious or bizarre, and I think the meanings were well understood within the artistic context of his time.

I agree. Couldn't have said it better myself.

"People should not be afraid of their governments, governments should be afraid of their people." -- V

scooter  posted on  2006-05-22   13:39:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: A K A Stone (#33)

It was a question. I don't know the answer.

Yes, a slanderous "When did you stop beating your wife" type question. Which isn't really a request for information at all.

"Are you lesbian lovers? I think so."

So how many lies does this put you at? I now count three from you about myself and Morgana.

Why don't you now try to prove up at least one and save what is left of your repuatation.

I am not going to hold you to what you said.

Pandora  posted on  2006-05-22   13:41:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: A K A Stone (#33)

Stone, if you've got a link that proves these two women are devil worshipers, witches, wiccans, lesbians or prostitutes - post the goddamned thing and save yourself from looking like a slanderous fool.

If you don't have one. Then apologize for being such a vile sack of shit.

.

...  posted on  2006-05-22   13:48:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: A K A Stone (#33)

Stone, judge not lest ye be judged. You may not like or agree with these folks, but I don't think Jesus would be as harsh towards them as you have been. I'm not trying to start a fight with you, but I think you're being way too harsh towards these folks. We're not living in the Middle Ages here.

"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."

mehitable  posted on  2006-05-22   13:53:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: A K A Stone (#33)

Stone, it might be OK in a day or so.

Lots of people who think devils and witches are chasing them just have the DT's.

Fun and Happy Balls  posted on  2006-05-22   15:21:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: mehitable (#38)

This kid is not trying to be imformative with his postings, he is baiting with them.

And as you point out, he hurts himself, not his intended target. ;-)

Ferret Mike  posted on  2006-05-22   17:04:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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