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Title: Was Bush's Response To Sept. 11 Attacks Un-Christian?
Source: www.southbendtribune.com
URL Source: http://www.southbendtribune.com/app ... 605250534/-1/Lives/CAT=Lives05
Published: May 25, 2006
Author: By RICHARD N. OSTLING
Post Date: 2006-05-29 09:38:52 by Mind_Virus
Keywords: None
Views: 324
Comments: 15

May 25. 2006 6:59AM

Was Bush's Response To Sept. 11 Attacks Un-Christian?

By RICHARD N. OSTLING Associated Press Writer

The news media focuses on evangelical and Roman Catholic politicking, routinely ignoring such liberal Protestant activism as United Methodist Church officials' onslaught against policies of George W. Bush, an adult convert to their denomination.

Underlying issues: Must Christians oppose the Iraq war? Warfare in general?

The Methodists' chief social-issues spokesman, Jim Winkler, believes Congress should "impeach President Bush." He proposed that during the annual "Ecumenical Advocacy Days for Global Peace With Justice," attended by 923 progressives, mostly from the National Council of Churches and member denominations (e.g., the United Methodists, Christian Church-Disciples of Christ, Episcopal Church, Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, Presbyterian Church USA and United Church of Christ).

The House Judiciary Committee's ranking Democrat had already submitted a bill authorizing investigation of impeachable offenses.

Winkler's complaint: "The attack on Iraq was sold to our people on lies, and the war itself was an illegal war of aggression" that included things such as "unconstitutional" National Security Agency surveillance.

"There was nothing Christian in (Bush's) response to Sept. 11," Winkler asserted. "The war on terror is a war of terror. We have to stop it."

Strict Christian pacifists such as Mennonites and Quakers resist all war-making. They apply biblical teachings from Jesus and Paul about peacemaking not just to personal relations but to international affairs.

Winkler, who wants the U.S. defense budget slashed by 80 percent, could be considered a semipacifist. He said "Jesus Christ, if not a pacifist Himself," at least "chose a nonviolent course of action." He also cited Paul: "Do not repay anyone evil for evil. ... So far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. Beloved, never avenge yourselves" (Romans 12:17-19).

That reflects the Methodists' official Social Principles: "We believe war is incompatible with the teachings and example of Christ" and reject it "as an instrument of national foreign policy."

That text also says many believe that in "extreme situations" when all alternatives fail and "the need is clear beyond reasonable doubt," combat using "international organizations" may be better than allowing "unchecked aggression, tyranny and genocide."

The Methodists are America's third-largest religious body. The bishops of the largest, Roman Catholicism, said before the Iraq invasion that they questioned the morality of pre-emptive and unilateral action and saw no grave danger of Iraqi attacks or evidence that that nation was involved in Sept. 11.

Updating matters this year, the bishops' international policy chairman rejected both "cut and run" and "stay the course" policies. He said that now, America has "moral responsibilities to help Iraqis secure and rebuild their country." U.S. troops should leave "sooner rather than later" but remain pending a "responsible transition" to provide security, stability and the rule of law.

There's no hesitation with the hawkish Southern Baptist Convention, America's second-largest denomination.

Last year's annual Baptist meeting said Bush "has shown courage and leadership in his valiant opposition to terrorism. ... We express deepest gratitude and respect for our president in light of the gravity of the decisions he must make and the leadership role he fills."

The Baptists found scriptural warrant in 1 Timothy 2:2, which commends prayer "for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life." An earlier Baptist statement defending the war on terror said the Bible commands "civil authorities to restrain evil and to punish evildoers through the power of the sword," citing Paul in Romans 13:1-5.

The National Association of Evangelicals includes pacifists, and its "Call to Civic Responsibility" last year said members disagree about use of the military "to defend our homelands, rescue others from attack or liberate other people from oppression."

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#1. To: Mind_Virus (#0)

Was Bush's Response To Sept. 11 Attacks Un-Christian?

The answer is NO! The Good Book is loaded with references to "shock and awe" campaigns waged in the Lord's Name.

alwaysontheright  posted on  2006-05-29   9:42:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: alwaysontheright (#1)

The answer is NO! The Good Book is loaded with references to "shock and awe" campaigns waged in the Lord's Name.

Im not even going to address that Bush who professes to be a Christian would continue to wage war in the name of a LIE that they KNEW was a lie..NOT quite Christian now is it??

But how can someone who is 'right' be so very wrong..?? If the question wouldve been 'is it biblical'.. I may agree.. OT testament eye for an eye and all that.. BUT Christian?? The answer is an emphatic YES it was unChristian.. it is not Christian in anyway.. for Jesus said in Matthew 5:38, "You have heard that it was said, `An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth." But I say to you, do not resist an evildoer. But if anyone strikes out on the right cheek, turn the other also; and if anyone wants to sue you and take your coat, give your cloak as well."

Zipporah  posted on  2006-05-29   9:57:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: alwaysontheright (#1)

The Good Book is loaded with references to "shock and awe" campaigns waged in the Lord's Name.

I believe that's only true of the Old Testament. And that part of the Old Testament is arguably superseded by things like the Sermon on the Mount.

In any case, I don't think there's much doubt that Bush's Iraq war is a war of aggression, and thus immoral by the Augustinian just war standards traditional to Christianity. If 9/11 really was an inside job, the same is true of the war in Afghanistan.

aristeides  posted on  2006-05-29   10:00:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: alwaysontheright (#1)

The bible also endorses genocide, but somehow I doubt you support it in all it's incarnations over the last 60 years.

Quit bogarting that peace, Herbert!

Dakmar  posted on  2006-05-29   10:00:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Zipporah (#2)

I agree with you that the pro-war response to sept 11 events is very un- christian.

for one thing there is a huge amount of deception surrounding the sept 11 events. and the bible warns us specifically and strongly against being deceived, tells us that deception is a tool of the enemy. in this case the pro- war people have employed deception on a grand scale. people who are 'christian' should catch a clue by this.

and as you and someone else said there's a big difference between OT & NT. and in the OT where war is spoken of more prominently it is always a war fught for god's purposes. who can really believe that this war is for god's purposes. we are glorifying the rule of man on this earth with this war, it has nothing to do with any noble purpse at all. The NT really as you said counsels strongly against violence of this sort.

I remember Bill clinton giving a speech asserting that hitler was motivated by christian faith.

Red Jones  posted on  2006-05-29   10:09:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Zipporah (#2)

Christian would continue to wage war in the name of a LIE that they KNEW was a lie..NOT quite Christian now is it??

Exactly. And to complete the thought, there was no lie. Unless you regard liberal luminaries like Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, Dick Gepheart et al as liars.

Come to think of it, you DO have a point!

alwaysontheright  posted on  2006-05-29   10:11:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Red Jones (#5)

I remember Bill clinton giving a speech asserting that hitler was motivated by christian faith.

An excellent source for biblical wisdom and Christian values? NOT!

alwaysontheright  posted on  2006-05-29   10:13:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: alwaysontheright (#6)

Exactly. And to complete the thought, there was no lie. Unless you regard liberal luminaries like Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, Dick Gepheart et al as liars.

Come to think of it, you DO have a point!

So you do agree that the Republican administration ARE liars.... Great!

Zipporah  posted on  2006-05-29   10:14:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Dakmar (#4)

The bible also endorses genocide, but somehow I doubt you support it in all it's incarnations over the last 60 years

Indeed, the Bible supports just about anything one wants it to---just dig deep enough until you find an obsure scripture that, taken out of context, can support just about anything!

alwaysontheright  posted on  2006-05-29   10:15:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Zipporah (#8)

Exactly. And to complete the thought, there was no lie.

There was NO lie--get over it!

alwaysontheright  posted on  2006-05-29   10:15:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Red Jones (#5)

I agree with you that the pro-war response to sept 11 events is very un- christian.

for one thing there is a huge amount of deception surrounding the sept 11 events. and the bible warns us specifically and strongly against being deceived, tells us that deception is a tool of the enemy. in this case the pro- war people have employed deception on a grand scale. people who are 'christian' should catch a clue by this.

and as you and someone else said there's a big difference between OT & NT. and in the OT where war is spoken of more prominently it is always a war fught for god's purposes. who can really believe that this war is for god's purposes. we are glorifying the rule of man on this earth with this war, it has nothing to do with any noble purpse at all. The NT really as you said counsels strongly against violence of this sort.

I remember Bill clinton giving a speech asserting that hitler was motivated by christian faith.

in this case the pro- war people have employed deception on a grand scale. people who are 'christian' should catch a clue by this.

The principles in the OT of course never were eradicated but fufilled by Christ... the references to 'shock and awe' as said by the poster for us as Christians has to do with SIN in OUR lives.. a metaphor.. Hitler DID profess to be a Christian JUST exactly as Bush does..

Zipporah  posted on  2006-05-29   10:21:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: alwaysontheright (#10)

There was NO lie--get over it!

LOL!!.. how clueless you are.. and purposefully~~.. which is more disgusting.. trying to mislead people ..hey you and the administration are ditto marks of one another.

Zipporah  posted on  2006-05-29   10:22:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: alwaysontheright (#10)

NO lie? Not one?

Not even a teenie-weenie one?

Yes, you're right. This war was prosecuted with a fearsome and principled regard for truth at all times.

randge  posted on  2006-05-29   10:25:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: alwaysontheright (#1)

The answer is NO! The Good Book is loaded with references to "shock and awe" campaigns waged in the Lord's Name.

Well then, how would you like it if the Chinese decide they need to liberate us, invade the US, terrorize American citizens screaming at them in Chinese while they beat the crap out of them with their rifle butts and such? How would you like that kind of "shock and awe"?

Diana  posted on  2006-05-29   10:25:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: alwaysontheright (#10)

There was NO lie--get over it!

Two things are obvious with you:

1. You know Bush lied;

2. You are shilling to cover this up.

Here is a nice example from the Associated Press of Bush being caught flat footed in a dead bang lie. Bush is in Poland talking about the Trailers of Mass Destruction. Bush tells us "We have found the WMD". As the article notes, Bush was told that this was not the case a couple of days before.

Ex-inspector says politics quashed findings on ‘trailers’

By CHARLES J. HANLEY

The Associated Press

A year after Bush administration claims about Iraqi “bioweapons trailers” were discredited by U.S. experts, U.S. officials were still suppressing the findings, says a senior member of the CIA-led Iraq inspection team.

At one point, former U.N. arms inspector Rod Barton says, a CIA officer told him it was “politically not possible” to report that the White House claims were untrue. In the end, Barton says, he felt “complicit in deceit.”

Barton, an Australian biological weapons specialist, discusses the 2004 events in “The Weapons Detective,” a memoir of his years as an arms inspector, being published Monday in Australia by Black Inc. Agenda.

Much sought after for his expertise, Barton served on the U.N. Iraq arms inspection teams of 1991-98 and 2002-03. After the U.S. invasion, he was an aide to chief U.S. inspector Charles Duelfer.

The Washington Post reported last month that a U.S. fact-finding mission confidentially advised Washington, D.C., on May 27, 2003, that two truck trailers found in Iraq were not mobile units for manufacturing bioweapons, as had been suspected.

Two days later, President Bush still asserted the trailers were bioweapons labs, and other administration officials repeated that line for months afterward.

Barton’s memoir says that well into 2004, pressure from Washington, D.C., kept the U.S. public uninformed about the true nature of these alleged WMD systems.........

I didn't post the entire article as I didn't want to spam the thread. I can put it up however if people want to see it.

.

...  posted on  2006-05-29   10:45:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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