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Title: Seeking 10,000 Teachers of Witchcraft And Wicca Needed To Supply Global Shortage
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www.paranormalpalace.com
URL Source: http://www.paranormalpalace.com/modules.php?name=News&new_topic=14
Published: Jun 19, 2006
Author: paranormalpalace
Post Date: 2006-06-22 01:32:16 by Mind_Virus
Keywords: None
Views: 833
Comments: 55
Seeking 10,000 Teachers of Witchcraft And Wicca Needed To Supply Global Shortage 2006-06-19 Have you ever considered learning Wicca and the Art of Witchcraft? Well, stand in line because there is a global shortage of teachers and the demand continues to grow. By next decade it is very likely that Wicca will be the third largest religion in America, and there is simply not enough teachers. Hoopeston, IL (PRWEB) June 19, 2006 -- Wicca is America's Fastest Growing religion and is anticipated by religious experts to be the third largest religion in the United States early in the 21st century behind only Christianity and Islam. Such a rapid spiritual revelation is occurring that the need for thousands of Wiccan teachers over the course of the next decade is required to meet the demand for basic teachings. People want to understand and embrace the Wican Rede and allow themselves to awaken their inner abilities. Wicca's liberating beliefs and useful skills are in such demand that they need ten thousand teachers in the next few years. America is on the brink of awakening and discovering it's inner magic and it is changing the world. How we change depends on what we believe, and more people are looking at Paganism and Wicca than ever. If Pagans are right, then we have contact with a whole other dimension to our already rich existence. It is a another vision of life where magic occurs alongside the daily workplace, among science and technology, among people and filling in all those different places with a sense of awe and wonder. It is about Soul freedom. It is about being aware of how much freedom we truly have. People becoming Wiccans today have a desire to teach and share their faith in ways never previously before conceived. Fearful of the dangers of remaining in the closet, and yet knowing how discriminatory American culture can be, Wiccans desire to build their community in a free and open manner, legally protected under Constitutional law. We benefit from the freedoms we have fought for and served for, and that our forefathers and mothers strived to maintain for us and we will pass these freedoms onto our children. This freedom is opening this sacred community to the deepest thinking and development of their sacred arts in history and allowing Wiccan to show the world how useful these skills will be in the future that races toward us all. And discovering Wicca has never been easier and more public. If you ever thought about Wicca and asking what it is, you can take a free Wicca Course at http://WitchSchool.com. Witch School is the leading distance education system in Wiccan studies worldwide, and has now helped tens of thousands of people learn about Wicca and their own inner abilities.Maybe you will be one of those new teachers and not even aware of it yet. But even if you never practice, the study of Wicca is a fascinating subject and part of our great American experience. Source EmediaWire
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#16. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#11)
My ex-wife, obviously.
I disagree. When Goddess based religions were common in the world, before the demonetization of it by religions like Christianity who murdered many leaders and destroyed as much of those religion's structure as possible, it was a rich part of th tapestry of a community and the mere fact the we, a young but in many ways one of the oldest religions in existence endure us we represent the human spirit in an excellent fashion.
Oh, I have to totally disagree with that. I don't know if there ever actually WAS a time when Goddess based religions were in the majority. I think that's a myth or fantasy propagated by new agers. There were pantheons with male and female gods, of course, and many of those cultures practiced behaviors that are now abhorrent to us such as infanticide or human sacrifice. I have nothing against Wicca personally, but I don't think there's any glorious past associated with it. Wicca was invented by English eccentrics about 50-60 years ago. It has no real history.
"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."
I haven't played for a few years. Last time it was 10...but in high school it was the 2nd edition.
"That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves." Kim Stanley Robinson, "Green Mars" p318
Actually the suppression and overt destruction of this sort of religion is very well documented and so is the fact many died in the process. It was even talked about in the historically well researched book The De Vinci Code. I take it you haven't even read that book as well as not looked at historical fact?
One thing I am confused about Wicca is the claim to ancient knowledge. I'm not attempting to sound too smart-asslike, but, what historical documents do Wiccans claim to point how/what/about Wicca is?
"That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves." Kim Stanley Robinson, "Green Mars" p318
there are many, many articles on this subject on the following site: a lot of the information simply comes from what is known about the older religions. a lot of mesopotamian and zorarastarian records survive. these beliefs can be traced to phoenecians and the roman cults of diana.
OK, thanks, I've been reading different parts of that site. So, it seems that modern Wiccanism essentially takes parts of all pre- Christian, pre-Islamic, religions. It seems to hold all of them pretty much equally valid, which adds to some confusion-- as the cultures of pre-Christian Ireland (e.g.) was in stark difference to that of what the Germanic tribes were practicing, or the Roman mystery cults were involved with, not to mention the bull cults of Mesopotamian city states.
"That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves." Kim Stanley Robinson, "Green Mars" p318
the celtic culture is romantic, but not much is actually known about it. the romans disrupted it and the early christians destroyed what was left. some of the northern european folklore survived in russia and the baltic states. pol anderson used this for his books. the mesopotamian culture is relatively well documented. if you google Inanna or Damuzi you can find the actual him to this goddess. the stories are intertwined with gilgamesh. a lot of the doctrine i see is standard across all religions. if you were to study zen you would see almost exactly the same rules of personal conduct.
him == hymm
I concur with your sentiments. I am guessing here but was it was Edward the fourth that absolutely instigated a pogram against them bout 850 AD? And the prohibition of putting their religon into writing caused it to vanish as the original adhearents did, with the Roman and the Christian conquests. I feel they were a branch of the Pythagoran's - many of the "quotes" of the Druids have a very similar feel to them as the Pthags, and the fact that ALL of the Druids priests were fluent in Greek ( it was the only written language allowed for the commuications of the priestly class), attested to this. Druid means "men of Oak", the sacred tree. The rites were performend in the deep woods, as were the Sybilline rites of the Romans and Greeks.
I guess that gets back to a question I have of Wiccanism. In regards to Celtic religion, for example, because of a void of information, wiccans seem to worship what is imagined about the Celts, in contrast to how they realistically viewed the world. Another example of this contrast is the Wiccan ideas of practicing different methods of ethnic magic. In the excellent work by Frazier, 'The Golden Bough', there are many examples of pre-Christian, ancient European rituals regarding fertility, the seasons, favors from the Gods, etc. However, Wiccans seem to focus on new age concepts of magic, and such practices which were actually used by the ancients such as sacrificing animals and sprinkling blood in fields for a good crop have been ignored or cast off as politically incorrect.
"That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves." Kim Stanley Robinson, "Green Mars" p318
Okay, Mike, you just blew all the fuses. I personally don't care what religion people practice as long as they don't do animal or human sacrifices. Other than that, pretty much be my guest. But when you start touting a complete piece of drivel like the Da Vinci code as "history" it proves that you don't know what the bleep you are talking about. There is no "history" in the Da Vinci Code - or precious little of it. In fact, the author plagiarized a couple of books to even create this one (and I've seen the proof - he literally lifted things page by page from one book in particular). It's egregious. First off, there is no proof of any kind whatsover, suppressed or not, that Jesus was ever married or had kids. This information simply does not exist. It just doesn't. Anyone who says it does, is a liar. Now to me, it doesn't matter if Jesus was married or not - I don't care. It's a matter of historical fact to the extent that we can piece it together and there IS NO EVIDENCE OF THIS AT ALL. All of this stuff about Mary Magdalene and the Holy Grail is totally invented. There is no proof of it at all. Nothing. No original documents. Nothing. It's a fabrication. Secondly, Da Vinci, did paint little jokes and things into this pictures, This is well known to art scholars. But the things that Brown claims are in Da Vinci's pictures, simply ARE NOT THERE. It's UNTRUE. The Last Supper for example. That is not a woman - it's the apostle John. That is the standard depiction of the apostle John during that era of art. He was depicted as an effeminate young man - a scholar/student type they called it. And Leonardo was gay, so he may have picked someone even more effeminate than usual. There's no mystery about it. If you're quoting the Da Vinci code as your basis for information, you need to find some new sources. It's been totally discredited on many levels.
"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."
And yes, I have read the book. It was a well written mystery. Too bad Brown didn't write most of it himself.
"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."
from what i have seen is that the magick aspect isn't that central to the philosophy. most of the magick i have seen is of the self improvement variety. know yourself, control your emotions, be aware of your real motives, etc. the ritual seems designed to help a person focus on this. it is important as there are no hard and fast codes - there is an attempt to maximize personal freedom without harming others. one must decide what is correct in any given situation based on some general guidelines, e.g., what causes the least harm, what is best for everyone, are you really acting with good motives, etc.
Heh, I wasn't talking about that,I was talking about the relatively minor sidebar mention he made to the suppression of Goddess based religions in comparison to the core material of the book. ;-) The De Vinci Code is correct in one thing beyond refutation; which is precious little is known about human history before Johannes Gutenberg invented the Printing Press. Today's ritual innovators may seem quite distant from the rural women described in Dever's volume. But as Dever notes, images of the Divine Feminine persist because they speak to deep human needs. Rational, philosophical monotheism, he says, "is in some ways less sophisticated — that is, less comprehensive, less flexible, less natural" than its more mythic antecedents. One is reminded how much more nuanced is the Zohar's dynamic, embodied human psychology than the linear rationalism of Maimonides, which posits one human faculty as supreme above all others..." More in: The Jewish Goddess, Past and Present My point is I don't trust Christian history either. Every bit as much as you don't trust accounts of non-Christian history.
Look, you're the one who pointed to the Da Vinci code as your basis for historical "proof" of your claims. The Da Vinci code is a plagiarized piece of crap - in terms of factual information. This casts suspicion on any other source you name because your first source is such an egregious pile of steaming manure.
"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."
Goddess Worship during Biblical times: Further south, as Judaism, Christianity & eventually Islam evolved. The Pagan religions were suppressed and the female principle was gradually driven out of religion. Women were reduced to a level inferior to men. The God, King, Priest & Father replaced the Goddess, Queen, Priestess & Mother. The role of women became restricted. A woman's testimony was not considered significant in Jewish courts; women were not allowed to speak in Christian churches; positions of authority in the church were limited to men. Young women are often portrayed in the Bible as possessions of their fathers. After marriage, they are generally viewed as possessions of their husbands. Yeshua of Nazareth (a.k.a. Jesus Christ) rejected millennia of religious tradition by treating women as equals. Women played a major role in the early Christian church. Later, epistle (letter) writers who wrote in the name of Paul, started the process of suppressing women once more. A feminine presence was added to Christianity by the Council of Ephesus in 431 CE when the Virgin Mary was named Theotokos (Mother of God). But her role was heavily restricted and included none of the fertility component present in Pagan religions. A low point in the fortunes of women was reached during the very late Middle Ages, when many tens of thousands of suspected female witches (and a smaller proportion of males) were exterminated by burning and hanging over a three century interval. Today, respect for the Virgin Mary as a submissive mother is widespread, particularly in Roman Catholicism." You thing of it as manure if you wish my dear woman, I'll continue to think of it as fertilizer for the imagination to sprout new ideas, thoughts and concepts concerning about what actually did happen in the past concerning religion, and about how religion will look in the future. ;-)
Then you use as your basis for information and philosophy a document that has been proven to be not only filled with lies and misinformation, but which is, in and of itself, a stolen (i.e., plagiarized) work. We have to review your statements in light of this revelation of what you consider as a desirable source of information.
"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."
This was more of the sort of facts I had in mind in terms of what Dan Brown mentioned in regards to suppression of the Divine feminine: The Witch hunt timeline Prior to the 9th century CE: There was a widespread popular belief that evil Witches existed. They were seen as evil persons, primarily women, who devoted their lives to harming and killing others through black magic and evil sorcery. The Catholic church at the time officially taught that such Witches did not exist. It was a heresy to say that they were real. "For example, the 5th century Synod of St. Patrick ruled that 'A Christian who believes that there is a vampire in the world, that is to say, a witch, is to be anathematized; whoever lays that reputation upon a living being shall not be received into the Church until he revokes with his own voice the crime that he has committed.' A capitulary from Saxony (775-790 CE) blamed these stereotypes on pagan belief systems: 'If anyone, deceived by the Devil, believes after the manner of the Pagans that any man or woman is a witch and eats men, and if on this account he burns [the alleged witch]... he shall be punished by capital sentence." 1 906 CE: Regino of Prum, the Abbot of Treves, wote the Canon Episcopi. It reinforced the church's teaching that Witches did not exist. It admitted that some confused and deluded women thought that they flew through the air with the Pagan Goddess Diana. But this did not happen in reality; it was explained away as some form of hallucination. Circa 975 CE: Penalties for Witchcraft and the use of healing magic were relatively mild. The English Confessional of Egbert said, in part: "If a woman works witchcraft and enchantment and [uses] magical philters, she shall fast for twelve months...If she kills anyone by her philters, she shall fast for seven years." Fasting, in this case, involved consuming only bread and water. circa 1140: Gratian, an Italian monk, incorporated the Canon Episcopi into canon law. circa 1203: The Cathar movement, a Gnostic Christian group, had become popular in the Orleans area of France and in Italy. They were declared heretics. Pope Innocent III approved a war of genocide against the Cathars. The last known Cathar was burned at the stake in 1321 CE. The faith has seen a rebirth in recent years. 1227: Pope Gregory IX established the Inquisitional Courts to arrest, try, convict and execute heretics. 1252: Pope Innocent III authorized the use of torture during inquisitional trials. This greatly increased the conviction rate. 1258: Pope Alexander IV instructed the Inquisition to confine their investigations to cases of heresy. They were to not investigate charges of divination or sorcery unless heresy was also involved. 1265: Pope Clement IV reaffirms the use of torture. 1326: The Church authorized the Inquisition to investigate Witchcraft and to develop "demonology," the theory of the diabolic origin of Witchcraft. 1330: The popular concept of Witches as evil sorcerers is expanded to include belief that they swore allegiance to Satan, had sexual relations with the Devil, kidnapped and ate children, etc. 1347 to 1349: The Black Death epidemic killed a sizeable part of the European population. Conspiracy theories spread. Lepers, Jews, Muslims and Witches were accused of poisoning wells and spreading disease. 1430's: Christian theologians started to write articles and books which "proved" the existence of Witches. 2 1436-7: Johannes (John) Nider wrote a book called Formicarius, which describe the prosecution of a man for Witchcraft. Copies of this book were often added to the Malleus Maleficarum in later years. Some sources say that the author Thomas of Brabant; this is apparently an error. 1450: The first major witch hunts began in many western European countries. The Roman Catholic Church created an imaginary evil religion, using stereotypes that had circulated since pre-Christian times. They said that Pagans who worshiped Diana and other Gods and Goddesses were evil Witches who kidnapped babies, killed and ate their victims, sold their soul to Satan, were in league with demons, flew through the air, met in the middle of the night, caused male impotence and infertility, caused male genitals to disappear, etc. Historians have speculated that this religiously inspired genocide was motivated by a desire by the Church to attain a complete religious monopoly, or was "a tool of repression, a form of reining-in deviant behavior, a backlash against women, or a tool of the common people to name scapegoats for spoiled crops, dead livestock or the death of babies and children." Walter Stephens, a professor of Italian studies at Johns Hopkins University, proposes a new theory: "I think Witches were a scapegoat for God." 3 Religious leaders felt that they had to retain the concepts of both an omnipotent and an all-loving deity. Thus, they had to invent Witches and demons in order to explain the existence of evil in the world. This debate, about how an all-good and all-powerful God can coexist in the world with evil is now called Theodicy. Debate continues to the present day. 1450: Johann Gutenberg invented moveable type which made mass printing possible. This enabled the wide distribution of Papal bulls and books on Witch persecution; the witch hunt was greatly facilitated. 1484: Pope Innocent VIII issued a papal bull "Summis desiderantes" on DEC-5 which promoted the tracking down, torturing and executing of Satan worshipers. 1486-1487: Institoris (Heinrich Kraemer) and Jacob Sprenger published the Malleus Maleficarum (The Witches' Hammer). It is a fascinating study of the authors' misogyny and sexual frustration. It describes the activities of Witches, the methods of extracting confessions. It was later abandoned by the Church, but became the "bible" of those secular courts which tried Witches. 1500: During the 14th century, there had been known 38 trials against Witches and sorcerers in England, 95 in France and 80 in Germany. 4 The witch hunts accelerated. "By choosing to give their souls over to the devil witches had committed crimes against man and against God. The gravity of this double crime classified witchcraft as crimen exceptum, and allowed for the suspension of normal rules of evidence in order to punish the guilty." 7 Children's testimony was accepted. Essentially unlimited torture was applied to obtain confessions. The flimsiest circumstantial evidence was accepted as proof of guilt. 1517: Martin Luther is commonly believed to have nailed his 95 theses on the cathedral door at Wittenburg, Germany. Apparently it never happened; he published his arguments in a less dramatic way. This triggered the Protestant Reformation. In Roman Catholic countries, the courts continue to burn witches. In Protestant lands, they were mainly hung. Some Protestant countries did not allow torture. In England, this lack of torture led to a low conviction rate of only 19%. 4 Circa 1550 to 1650 CE: Trials and executions reached a peak during these ten decades, which are often referred to as the "burning times." They were mostly concentrated in eastern France, Germany and Switzerland. Witch persecutions often occurred in areas where Catholics and Protestants were fighting. Contrary to public opinion, suspected witches -- particularly those involved in evil sorcery -- were mainly tried by secular courts. A minority were charged by church authorities; these were often cases involving the use of healing magic or midwifery. (More to the timeline in above link) You sure are a spark plug of excitement, aren't you? I clearly stated the obvious; that little remains of recorded record of the periods we are taking about, and if Dan Brown's book wasn't a rich source of imaginative thinking concerning what was and will be about religion, it wouldn't have created the stir it did. ;-) I didn't use his book for anything but a fulcrum for my imagination, try to calm down here, OK? I have been a Wiccan far longer then Dan Brown has been a writer.
You're full of crap, Mike. You start off pushing the Da Vinci Code as the fount of truth and knowledge and then you pedal away from that when I demonstrate what a lying, deceitful pile of crap it really is. Now you're blathering about witchcraft trials. I don't even understand what your point is anymore. That people do bad things in the name of religion? Well, let's take a look at all those Incan and Mayan human sacrifices that they used to do in the thousands for their gods. They'd torture people and then rip their hearts out while they were still alive. Or how about the practices of some of the Northern people who used to burn people alive in giant wicker baskets. Or the practices of the Phoenicians who used to burn children in a giant furnace within a metal statue of the god Moloch (which is where the word immolate comes from). Of course all of these other people were just celebrating cultural diversity and the only truly evil people in the world are white Christians. We can smell what you're cooking, Mike, and it ain't barbecue.
"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."
Last post to you here on this thread. I mentioned the book in passing because it does touch on truths resonate to my faith. I didn't pedal away, I tried to explain what my point was but you can't come down from the inquisitional high you are on emotionally. This is suppose to be a lighter conversation on a religion in this thread, not a heavy political war. You don't know what I am saying because you are angry and beyond being reasoned with because of your anger. I respect your religion, I also respect Islam, Judaism, and all the rest. Relax, enjoy the Summer day, breathe. No harm was ever intended, no suspicion or fighting here was ever necessary. Have a nice day.
Or how about the practices of some of the Northern people who used to burn people alive in giant wicker baskets. Or the practices of the Phoenicians who used to burn children in a giant furnace within a metal statue of the god Moloch (which is where the word immolate comes from). I have to agree with you on the level that modern pagan beliefs gloss over these facts, or do not practice them, even though they are authentic rituals.
"That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves." Kim Stanley Robinson, "Green Mars" p318
What I find so truly obnoxious about Mike and others of his ilk, is that they have such an apparent hatred of and guilt toward Western civlization. They demonize it, and make it seem that only white Christians have done any evil in the world. The fact is that all people are capable of doing evil and of using religion to excuse it. This has happened in all times and places among many different people. The other thing that really angers me is when I see fake history being created to give more legitimacy or weight to something like Wicca. If people want to practice Wicca, that is fine with me. New religions come about all the time, and they stand on their own merits. But fake histories and mythologies do not need to be created to add substance to a new religion. It stands (or falls) on its own merits. I do not approve of revisionist history, whether in religion, politics, art, or elsewhere.
"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."
The other thing that really angers me is when I see fake history being created to give more legitimacy or weight to something like Wicca. If people want to practice Wicca, that is fine with me. New religions come about all the time, and they stand on their own merits. But fake histories and mythologies do not need to be created to add substance to a new religion. It stands (or falls) on its own merits. I do not approve of revisionist history, whether in religion, politics, art, or elsewhere. Well, yes-- the use of fake history, as a someone like myself who has a degree in history, and has studied for many years in various fields of history, and with some very highly intelligent people who study history-- it's terribly annoying. For me, I'm not necessarily annoyed with Wiccans or pagans-- these people have a freedom to religion, and may exercise it. However, the revisionism of Wiccan/pagan belief of what pre-Christians believed as almost some kind of warm & fuzzy worldview is absolute nonsense. The modern interpretations by followers of paganism is a view of ancient religion in very romantic terms-- it isn't authentic or realistic to how ancient pagans understood their religion, however-- to people who have been turned off by Christianity for various reasons, the utopian understanding of a pre-Christian religion 'untouched' is highly attractive-- and is also a sign of ignorance to historical fact. If we could somehow put a group of historical pagans together with a group of modern pagans together in the same room, than I would bet that at the end of the day, most of the modern pagans wouldn't want to be pagan, anymore. It's looking at ancient religion in the most rosy-colored of glasses, out of context to the world the ancients were living in.
"That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves." Kim Stanley Robinson, "Green Mars" p318
That would, indeed, be a first. I am reading Livy, the Roman Historian, on the early period of Rome. He states quite clearly that Numa, the second King of Rome after Romulus, created the Roman system of religion (borrowed mainly from the Greeks and the Estructans) to instill in the citizens respect of the divine authority of the patricians. He states it as a device to control the ignorent brutal commons, as to instill of fear a higher power, that was invested to the tribunes of Rome.
Do unto others as you would have them do to you?
one would probably feel safer and more at ease with a group of athenian pagans than one would with a group of fundamentalist christian freepers. you seem to feel that modern groups must slavishly follow the practices of ancient societies. this isn't so. first of all, these practices arn't well documented. secondly, many have little validity for modern people. i think Wiccan Circles honor the core beliefs of other cultures as they feel there are many paths to the divine. from what i have seen of the world's religions, the core morality is almost always the same. only the ritual and outer trappings differ. the interest in ancient ritual and beliefs is simply one way to explore the many paths to the divine. they believe that each must find his or her own path. most i have met don't actually believe there is a horned God and a Goddess observing them from some unexplained dimension. they believe there is a divine force that is probably beyond their compreshension that has both a male and a female aspect - as distinguished from the one sided male aspect of modern chritianity. the God and Goddess are simply representations of this whole aspect, not necessarily the divine being incarnate. Something to help the person focus, similar to the statues in a church. they don't proseletize as they believe there are many valid paths. Becaue there are many valid paths, there is no compelling reason the rest of the world to follow their path. In addition, an over zealous member could actually divert another person from a valid path that was working for them. perhaps to a wiccan path that did not serve their needs as well as the original path that he overzealous wiccan diverted them from. proseletizing could in fact be a dangerous practice. if the infinite and all powerful God and Goddess wanted the person to be a Wiccan, they would be a Wiccan. the proseletizer is simply butting into something that is not his or her business. they are similar to quakers in that there is very little dogma. they feel that any God worth his salt has no need for a Pat Robertson to speak on the God's behalf. In fact, a basic tennet that I have heard is that anyone who claims to speak for the divine does not speak for the divine.
Maybe! Ha..:) I think that most Wiccans are very good-natured. They are certainly not satanist. Although their understandings aren't really historical, I think many pagans are on their own paths. Like anybody else, more education is better. Better educated Wiccans will have a deeper faith, and be better people for it. ;)
"That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves." Kim Stanley Robinson, "Green Mars" p318
Yeah, I know it's the bible, but mine is more hip, and with the times.
And after all, who the hell wants to die unloved?
#17. To: mehitable (#15)
“Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being governed by those who are dumber.” Plato
#18. To: Ferret Mike (#17)
#19. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#12)
The shit keeps changing.
#20. To: mehitable (#18)
"Oh, I have to totally disagree with that. I don't know if there ever actually WAS a time when Goddess based religions were in the majority. I think that's a myth or fantasy propagated by new agers."
“Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being governed by those who are dumber.” Plato
#21. To: Ferret Mike (#13)
#22. To: peteatomic (#21)
#23. To: Morgana le Fay (#22)
#24. To: peteatomic (#23)
#25. To: peteatomic (#23)
#26. To: Morgana le Fay (#24)
the celtic culture is romantic, but not much is actually known about it. the romans disrupted it and the early christians destroyed what was left. some of the northern european folklore survived in russia and the baltic states. pol anderson used this for his books.
#27. To: Morgana le Fay (#24)
#28. To: Ferret Mike (#20)
It was even talked about in the historically well researched book The De Vinci Code. I take it you haven't even read that book as well as not looked at historical fact?
#29. To: All (#28)
#30. To: peteatomic (#27)
#31. To: mehitable (#28)
"All of this stuff about Mary Magdalene and the Holy Grail is totally invented. There is no proof of it at all. Nothing. No original documents. Nothing. It's a fabrication."
"...While "the Goddess" has long been in hiding in such coded symbols, today She is, as it were, coming out of the closet, appearing in everything from feminine God(dess) language to "priestess training programs" in both Israel and the United States. Folklorist Taya Shere, a co-leader of one such program, says that she is merely recapturing an ancient, lost and more balanced Jewish religion. "Judaism came from somewhere, and it is comforting for me to be aware of its roots," she said. "Even the challah loaves come from the holy cakes baked for Astarte."
“Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being governed by those who are dumber.” Plato
#32. To: Ferret Mike (#31)
#33. To: mehitable (#29)
“Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being governed by those who are dumber.” Plato
#34. To: mehitable (#32)
"This casts suspicion on any other source you name because your first source is such an egregious pile of steaming manure."
“Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being governed by those who are dumber.” Plato
#35. To: Ferret Mike (#34)
#36. To: mehitable (#32)
THE BURNING TIMES: The time line: the Dark Ages to now
“Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being governed by those who are dumber.” Plato
#37. To: mehitable (#35)
"Then you use as your basis for information and philosophy..."
“Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being governed by those who are dumber.” Plato
#38. To: Ferret Mike, all (#36)
#39. To: mehitable (#38)
"You're full of crap, Mike. You start off pushing the Da Vinci Code as the fount of truth and knowledge and then you pedal away from that when I demonstrate what a lying, deceitful pile of crap it really is. Now you're blathering about witchcraft trials. I don't even understand what your point is anymore"
“Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being governed by those who are dumber.” Plato
#40. To: mehitable (#38)
That people do bad things in the name of religion? Well, let's take a look at all those Incan and Mayan human sacrifices that they used to do in the thousands for their gods. They'd torture people and then rip their hearts out while they were still alive.
#41. To: peteatomic (#40)
#42. To: mehitable (#41)
What I find so truly obnoxious about Mike and others of his ilk, is that they have such an apparent hatred of and guilt toward Western civlization. They demonize it, and make it seem that only white Christians have done any evil in the world. The fact is that all people are capable of doing evil and of using religion to excuse it. This has happened in all times and places among many different people.
#43. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#7)
I'm going to start my own religion based on the idea of self reliance and common sense, and nobody will have to pay a dime to learn it. It would be the ONLY religion in history that was altruistic in its agenda.
#44. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#11)
Seriously, this whole life thing could be condensed down to one sentence.
#45. To: peteatomic (#42)
If we could somehow put a group of historical pagans together with a group of modern pagans together in the same room, than I would bet that at the end of the day, most of the modern pagans wouldn't want to be pagan, anymore.
#46. To: Morgana le Fay (#45)
one would probably feel safer and more at ease with a group of athenian pagans than one would with a group of fundamentalist christian freepers.
#47. To: tom007 (#44)
 | What's that Mr. Nipples? You want me to ask the nice lady about her rack?. |
#48. To: peteatomic (#46)
a lot of the basic tennets come out of the order of the eastern star. they were held by jefferson and franklin. my understanding is as follows: 1. the God and Goddess are generally incomprehensible but may take many forms. 2. the God and Goddess have a profound and probably incomprehesible relationship with all of nature - not just with yourself. 3. your trust in a diety must rest upon somethimg other than blind faith. it should be something within your experience or something that can be supported by reason. 4. People can be guided by reason and conscience in matters of morality. there is no need for divine intervention. 5. Each individual has the ability to experience the divine, but each individual must find his or her own path to this state. 6. Each individual must honor the divine in his or her own way. 7. all people are equal in terms of rights and personal freedom. you may not impose your will upon others. you may not impose your religion upon others. you must avoid all acts that cause harm to others or to yourself. 8. Alternate views upon religion must be respected so long as they cause no obvious physical harm to others.
#49. To: peteatomic (#42)
Excellent post! Thank you. Yes, that's what I object to - the demonization of Christianity, and the romanticizing of pagan religions. They have this idea of a pre-Christian paradise where everyone lived in peace and happiness under a matriarchal system, which as far as I can tell, never existed. I can understand that people reject Christianity or want to adopt a nature religion, but I don't like this wholesale invention of a utopian past. Pagans had their own problems, and many of them had pretty bloody practices. They may not have achieved the scale that we have through our advanced technology and ability to travel, but they did what they could in their own spheres of influence.
For me, I'm not necessarily annoyed with Wiccans or pagans-- these people have a freedom to religion, and may exercise it. However, the revisionism of Wiccan/pagan belief of what pre-Christians believed as almost some kind of warm & fuzzy worldview is absolute nonsense.
"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."
#50. To: Morgana le Fay (#48)
Isn't this one dogma replacing another? I'll never understand the need to join something, be it a religion, a political party or any other sect/club/group. Maybe it's because I inevitable question authority, and soon become a square peg in a round hole.
#51. To: Jethro Tull (#50)
Et tu, JT? ;0)
and soon become a square peg in a round hole.
"To be nobody-but-yourself - in a world which is doing its best, night and day, to make you everybody else - means to fight the hardest battle which any human being can ever fight; and never stop fighting." E.E. Cummings
#52. To: BTP Holdings (#51)
It's the sum total of my life, BTP. I long ago gave up any attempt to fit in :)
#53. To: Jethro Tull (#50)
in a way it is, but it is a much less restrictive dogma. basically, it is a dogma that says you are to find your own way. the only constraint i see is the caveat against forcing your way upon others. by the way. this comes from the original eastern star formed in 1788. not the revitalized organization formed by Morris in 1850.
Isn't this one dogma replacing another?
#54. To: Morgana le Fay (#53)
This I like. Missionaries, formal and informal, belong in boiling pots.
the only constraint i see is the caveat against forcing your way upon others.
#55. To: Morgana le Fay (#53)
It takes all of the fun out of being a tyrant, doncha know. ;0)
against forcing your way upon others.
"To be nobody-but-yourself - in a world which is doing its best, night and day, to make you everybody else - means to fight the hardest battle which any human being can ever fight; and never stop fighting." E.E. Cummings
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