See other Immigration Articles
Title: American Workers May Be Rejecting Low-End Jobs as Immigrants Depress Wage
Source:
Bloomberg
URL Source: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/regions/us.html
Published: Jun 26, 2006
Author: Bloomberg
Post Date: 2006-06-26 12:59:02 by Brian S
Keywords: None
Views: 361
Comments: 40
June 26 (Bloomberg) -- President George W. Bush, addressing the nation on his immigration-overhaul plan last month, declared that granting temporary visas to immigrants would merely give them a chance at ``jobs Americans are not doing.'' A growing number of economists challenge the contention that Americans aren't willing to take on those low-end jobs; it's kitchen-table economics, not the sweat factor, that keeps them away. These economists' studies indicate many Americans want those jobs -- they just can't afford to take them because of declining pay and benefits. And they say the influx of immigrants has helped drive down compensation in occupations such as the needle trades, landscaping and restaurant help. ``The idea that somehow you have a need for people to do jobs that Americans won't do is just insane,'' says George Borjas, an economist at Harvard University in Cambridge, Massachusetts, who has written extensively about immigration and wages. He says that as immigrants flow into an occupation, ``the wage goes down, and you go do something else.'' The issue has become central to the debate over immigration, a controversy that has divided the Republican Party and the nation. Philip Harvey, a professor of law and economics at the Rutgers University in New Brunswick, New Jersey, says that salaries for the lowest-wage workers in all occupations increased by 7.4 percent from 2001 to 2005, while pay for all jobs rose by 11.4 percent during the same period. Harvey's study used data from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics. Recent Decades The disparity is greater over recent decades. The bottom 10 percent of wage-earners is the only group that has seen a decline in real wages -- 2.4 percent -- since 1979, according to the Economic Policy Institute, a Washington think-tank with ties to organized labor. The group's study was also based on data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Administration officials, who are advancing a plan to establish a guest-worker program for immigrants and a path to citizenship for undocumented aliens, say newcomers aren't elbowing aside American job-seekers. ``We have got jobs that are available, that need to get done, that American citizens are not willing to do,'' Commerce Secretary Carlos Gutierrez said in a June 14 interview. The precise effect of immigration on the U.S. economy is a source of debate among economists. Some say it isn't fair to blame immigration flows for wage shifts. The transition to a post-industrial information economy and the growing impact of globalization may be more critical factors, they say. ``Immigration has relatively little to do with the state of the American job market,'' says Bradford DeLong, professor of economics at the University of California at Berkeley. ``Globalization has a bunch.'' Exaggerated Threat Pro-immigration business groups say that those on the other side of the debate exaggerate the threat posed by undocumented workers. Martin Regalia, chief economist at the Washington-based U.S. Chamber of Commerce, the nation's largest business lobby, says many of the nation's unemployed are seeking higher-end jobs than those that immigrants typically take. In Regalia's view, heeding calls to send undocumented workers packing would create labor shortages. ``The hyperbole that comes into this debate doesn't mesh well with the numbers,'' he says. Immigrants form a larger segment of the work force in the U.S. than in some European countries. Foreign-born workers made up 14.7 percent of the U.S. civilian labor force in 2005, according to Census data. In the U.K. and Germany, the figures were 9.6 percent and 12.2 percent respectively in 2004, the last year for which they were available, according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development. Continued Interest There is evidence that Americans continue to be interested in low-skill jobs ranging from tailoring to hotel service to food preparation, some of the industries where immigrants are making their biggest inroads. Steven Camarota, research director of the Center for Immigration Studies, a Washington-based group that backs immigration controls, says Census data show U.S. natives still make up the majority of workers in most of these occupations. For example, he said, indigenous workers account for 62 percent of all maids and housekeepers and 60 percent of dry-wall installers, based on 2003-2004 Census figures. ``There's a high degree of native interest in being a maid or housekeeper,'' Camarota says. ``If the wages were better, you certainly could attract more.'' Loading Freight James Lynch, a 45-year-old unemployed electrician from Fayetteville, North Carolina, says he's unloaded freight and held two other temporary jobs since he lost a well-paying position at an electrical-contracting firm in Durham in 2004. None of those stints led to permanent work, a situation he blames on immigrants willing to toil for sub-par wages. Lynch says he passed up the chance to apply for full-time status at his subsequent jobs because employers ``wanted me to work for a lot less pay than I'm used to getting. They can go and get cheaper labor'' from immigrant ranks. Immigrant wages are lower on average than those for the native-born, according to a study by the Urban Institute, a Washington research group. It found nearly half of immigrants earn less than 200 percent of the minimum wage as opposed to about one-third of native-born workers. Still, some economists say, if immigrants are grabbing off so many jobs, why has the U.S. entered a period of sustained low unemployment? The national unemployment rate in May was only 4.6 percent. Other experts say the rosy unemployment numbers mask the growing number of Americans who are not participating in the labor force. That number rose to 35.5 million in 2005 from 30.8 million in 2000, says Camarota, citing Census data. Beyond the Fringe Aside from low wages, the lack of fringe benefits for jobs in low-wage industries may be discouraging native-born applicants. The percentage of workers earning between $10,000 and $20,000 a year who were eligible for a company-sponsored health plan in 2002 was 56 percent, compared to 92.4 percent for those earning $50,000 or more, according to an analysis by the non- partisan Employee Benefit Research Institute. In construction, one of the U.S. occupations where immigrants make up an increasing share of the workforce, 46 percent of workers have no employer-provided health plan, statistics compiled by the Laborers' International Union show. For his part, Bush continues to assert that immigrant labor is vital to economic prosperity. ``It makes sense to say, if someone is willing to do a job Americans aren't doing, here's a temporary way to come and work,'' he said in May 18 remarks in Yuma, Arizona.
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#1. To: Brian S (#0)
Like....Commerce Secretary? hmmmmmmmm....I can't help but wonder if Mr. Gutierrez might be somewhat....biased.
"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."
I have QUIT doing business with ANYONE who even remotely reeks of having illegal aliens on staff. Zero tolerance. 45,000 DEAD AMERICANS at the hands of illegals is too steep a price to pay for cheap produce. Unfortunately; no one else cares about this country.
What makes me sad sometimes is that I'll meet a foreign person, and they're very nice, but I have to keep wondering - is this person here legally. It's happened to me frequently with restaurants and service workers, and it makes me feel very uncomfortable with them. If I knew they had to be here legally, I might feel more friendly towards them, but this suspicion I always have that they're illegal, really dampens having any kind of relationship with them for me. There's an emotional cost to this illegal invasion as well as the financial and political cost.
"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."
We had a local bust 2 weeks ago at a construction site that had 22 illegals working there. Here's the kicker; they left the illegals go, but arrested 2 kids and the contractor for violating child labor laws.
I don't know why I find that funny. What on earth is their problem with picking up these people and sending them back home? Don't they have any trucks or buses or any ways of transporting people? Are they terrified of Vincente Fox? I don't get it.
"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."
Nationwide, Hispanics went up from 5% of janitors in 1980 to 20% in 2000, while median inflation-adjusted weekly earnings for janitors went down by 4.4% from 1985 to 2005.
Oye, pendejo, escutchame por favor.. Americans won't do those jobs for 2 bucks a hour.. Hope this helps.
In Bush's mind, he is already the emperor of a North American Union. A few weeks ago he refused to meet with border sheriffs and other law enforcement personnel on the issue of enforcement. I said at the time that this at least did evidence a lack of hypocrisy on his part. Bush does not see a border at the Rio Grande. He sees "common ground" as the Rev. Jackson might say.
Americans can't do those jobs for 2 bucks a hour. Back when I was a janitor I turned down work a lot. Why? Because when I worked the numbers out I ended up losing money on most jobs. Why clean a building for $20 a night when you burn up $30 worth of gas (not to metion liability insurance, workmens comp, and unemployment taxes) getting there?
"The more I see of life, the less I fear death" - Me.
Perzaktly.. Can't is the operative word here..
I just overheard on the boob tube that somewhere in HAARP-ravaged Katrina territory, the rulers are fixing to get visas for 3,000 CHINESE to build new homes down there, although there are Americans willing and able to do the work!
I live in the N.E., we've just been HARRPed too. I posted a question on one of the local TV station's message board. I asked if we ever experiened such a weather pattern before. The front was stalled for a week. I haven't gotten an answer yet. The meterologist who answers weather questions has refused to answer my question for 3 days. Oddly, he's answering everyone elses. I don't think he has an answer.
I've never experienced anything like this past week, GJ. I went from bad to
worse by leaving PA on Tues for NJ. The towns in SE PA are in a few feet of
water, as are many parts of SW NJ
I very well remember Agnes in '72. I was in the Union County E. Squad and I was out for weeks and seen it all. Even though the river's not as high this time, a lot of places got hammered that escaped Agnes...strange. On Tuesday night, they were predicting the water to go over the wall at Sunbury. Luckily, it didn't happen I was wondering how State College did. The local media doesn't cover that area.
Arrrrgh!!
I live near DC. I've been fighting the water all week. So far we've been more fortunate than a lot of people who are going to be ruined by this. Meanwhile, I had to listen to my dad go on about global warming and how he believed this "weather pattern" was going to continue. He's in his eighties, and he has NEVER seen anything like this, which I find interesting in light of the fact that I keep hearing that we are in the midst of a "twenty-year weather pattern". Such BS. I have to bite my tongue, because my family all think I'm crazy, and refuse to listen. My father hung up on me for the first time close to 7 or eight years ago, when I tried to tell him about the Satanic pedeophile crimes at the Presidio. HIS army wouldn't do that!!! He also hung up on me earlier this year when I tried to tell him the government was doing the weather. Of course the media refuses to talk about this conspiracy against the people. We know they are part of the conspiracy. And now Cheney and the other neocons are going to use the trumped-up "terrorist financial spying" to shut up any reporters who might want to buck their owners. More and more people have wised up to the HAARP-caused hurricanes. We now know that you can destroy people with water alone, forget the high winds, although, we are in "hurricane season", and I fully expect them to send a few our way to finish us off. Jer 51:25 Behold, I [am] against thee, O destroying mountain, saith the LORD, which destroyest all the earth: and I will stretch out mine hand upon thee, and roll thee down from the rocks, and will make thee a burnt mountain. http://www.blueletter bible.org/tsk_b/Jer/51/25.html For another view of this, you might be interested in the discussion of HAARP at WHAT ABOUT THIS OLD TESTAMENT KILLER GOD? What about this Old Testament "Killer God? "The December 15, 1991 Alaska Daily News carried a big article on HAARP: ... God is NOT a killer God, neither in the Old Testament nor in the New Testament. ... http://www.goodne wsaboutgod.com/studies/otkillergod.htm
LOUDER!! [I'd do it but I don't know how!]
I live in AZ. Could you send us some water from DC? or NJ? we need some. we always need water. we get 4, 5 or 6" per year only. in rural AZ there are communities that must truck water in. You can imagine how expensive that is. some communities may actually die from lack of water. imagine how prosperous our rural agriculture could be if they used their abilities to create rain so that we had 20" per year.
I have a feeling NYC is going to get it this year.
One weather report quit his job to investigate weather control/warfare. Some top google listings in my quick search today that look interesting. I am working on something else, so haven't had a chance to check them out: WEEKLY UPDATES FROM Cutting Edge MinistriesI. NBC Weather Anchor, Scott Stevens, has confirmed that Hurricane Katrina, ... HAARP technology, we do not understand fully the Russian scalar secrets. ... http://www.cuttingedge .org/newsletters/090305.html - 101k - Cached - Similar pages CHEMTRAIL CAMPAIGN - ACTION PACK FOUR In three taped interviews with this reporter and veteran radio journalist ST Brendt, ... Though “section vii” naming chemtrails, HAARP and other ... http://www.world- action.org/campaign4.html - 17k - Cached - Similar pages Wunder Blog : Weather UndergroundPosted By: HAARP at 9:48 PM GMT on August 30, 2005. ... People PLEASE quit feeding the trolls. They only hang around and pester you the more you feed them. ... http://www.wunderground.com /blog/JeffMasters/ comment.html?entrynum=86&tstamp=200508 - 68k - Cached - Similar pages The Smirking Chimp - Weather Modification Bill submitted to ... Scott Stevens of http://weatherwars.com has quit his weather reporting job to go ... According to the HAARP website, those scientific investigations will have ... http://www.smirkingchimp.com/view topic. php?topic=59195&forum=3 - 160k - Cached - Similar pages Project Open Mind - The Messengers Angels Don't Play This HAARP: Advances in Tesla Technology. ... actions taken by the United States during the war led Marks to quit the State Department. ... http://www.alienjigsaw.com/yk2/p om3.html - 36k - Cached - Similar pages Books HAARP is a ground-based "Star Wars" weapon which has the capability to manipulate the environment in such a way as to change weather patterns, ... http://members.iimetro.co m.au/~hubbca/books.htm - 92k - Cached - Similar pages George W. Bush - Terrorist in the White House - US Weapons HAARP To Install 516 More Antennas - Note - That's over and above the 132 that were ... In 1984 the US quit UNESCO (UN Educational, Scientific and Cultural ... http://www.nogw.com/usweapons.html - 117k - Cached - Similar pages Networks Champion Cause of “Americans” Marching for “Immigration ...Documentary that looks at the history of weather modification and its use by the military. Among the topics covered are: cloud seeding, HAARP and ... www.gnn.tv/B14519 - portland imc - 2004.12.30 - NAZI BUSH REGIME's ENVIRO/HAARP ...Hence HAARP could not cause an earthquake on the surface of the earth much less the depths at which this techtonic plate behavior occured. 2. Poe quit ... http://portland.ind ymedia.org/en/2004/12/307042.shtml
I bought "Angels Don't play this HAARP' about 10 years ago. It's a tough read but there's a whole chapter on weather control. I found this Interesting thread on the History Channel board yesterday.
I can certainly sympathize with you. I believe one day soon this technology WILL be used to benefit mankind. Nicola Tesla, who provided the groundwork for this technology would have wanted that. I am working on something else, and don't want to overdo this little computer, but the Bible speaks of God making the deserts bloom, and it also speaks of those nations who "do not come up to Jerusalem once a year to worship WILL RECEIVE NO RAIN", a little carrot and stick approach to keep the name of God in front of the people I guess. I don't know if this means they will PHYSICALLY come up to New Jerusalem, or if there will be something like an International Day of Prayer, or what, but I do know God intends to rule this earth, and God chastizes those He loves. I can't develop this idea for you at this time, but I'm sure you get the gist.
WEATHER... we like it or NOT! | It Could Happen Tomorrow: Weather ...And the next one that targets the East Coast could hit New York city. ... You're not talking about pumping out the subways; you're talking about rebuilding ... http://www .sweetliberty.org/issues/weather/weatherchannel.html Expose them!!! Offense is the best defense. CAREFULLY place fliers [remember the White Rose Society]. ...and thank you for the link. I am pushing it right now, and I have a feeling if I tried to look at it now, I would lose everything I'm working on, but I will look at it later. Thanks!
I don't see any hard evidence the government has that kind of technology. IMO your father is not wrong here.
God is always good! I don't see any hard evidence the government has that kind of technology. IMO your father is not wrong here. Perhaps you have not looked in the right places. Col. Donn de Grand Pre confirms that the U.S. military has weather modification technology and THEY ARE USING IT!
"To be nobody-but-yourself - in a world which is doing its best, night and day, to make you everybody else - means to fight the hardest battle which any human being can ever fight; and never stop fighting." E.E. Cummings
Yep...They used it in Viet Nam. They've had it a long time.
US Patent Office : Tropical Cyclone Disruption, #5441200,granted on August 15, 1995.
Donn said he watched them develop all of this in the early 60s.
"To be nobody-but-yourself - in a world which is doing its best, night and day, to make you everybody else - means to fight the hardest battle which any human being can ever fight; and never stop fighting." E.E. Cummings
Operation Popeye
I'll have to run that by him. I haven't talked to him since March.
"To be nobody-but-yourself - in a world which is doing its best, night and day, to make you everybody else - means to fight the hardest battle which any human being can ever fight; and never stop fighting." E.E. Cummings
Where did he say this? Would that by any chance be in his book THE BARBARIANS ARE INSIDE THE GATE? I've been thinking of buying him that book. He might believe it if he saw it in something that had a hard cover and was bound. He won't believe it if it came off the 'net.
I tried to link to that, and my computer crashed, wouldn't you know. I just read it, but I read some stuff many years ago, that went into more detail on the Viet Nam weather-messin'. I'll see if I can find it.
"....NEWSPAPER ARTICLES PROVING WEATHER CONTROL NEWS BRIEF: "United States and Other World Powers Should Outlaw Tampering With Weather for Use as War Weapon", Editorial by Senator Claiborne Pell, D-Rhode Island, The Providence Journal Bulletin, 1975. "The U.S. and other world powers should sign a treaty to outlaw the tampering with weather as an instrument of war. It may seem farfetched to think of using weather as a weapon -- but I'm convinced that the U.S. did, in fact, use rainmaking techniques as a weapon of war in Southeast Asia." Let us stop right here and now and digest just what Senator Claiborne Pell has told us. He said that the United States used Weather as a Weapon during the Vietnam War. We fought the Vietnam War from 1965-74 in a large capacity. Using Weather Weapons in the early 1970's would fit the time frame with which we are familiar. The U.N. treaty we discussed above was passed one year after this article appeared quoting Senator Pell. Now, let us hear some more from Senator Pell. "We need a treaty now to prevent such actions -- before the military leaders of the world start directing storms, manipulating climates, and inducing earthquakes against their enemies. The basic idea of environmental warfare is simple -- if a nation can learn to trigger natural events it can inflict terrible damage on an enemy through rainfall, flooding, tidal waves, earthquakes, and even climate changes that could devastate an enemy nation's agriculture." [Ibid.] In one single paragraph, Senator Pell has confirmed our contention, above, that weather control is a reality and that it can be used as a weapon against an enemy. At this point, we need to clarify a very necessary ingredient required for a capability to be transformed into an effective weapon -- the capability needs to be exactly controlled so it will strike the target precisely. Otherwise, the capability is worthless; therefore, weather weaponry must be able to be precisely controlled! Keep that point in mind for the time you read Part 3....." Title: WEATHER CONTROL AND WEATHER WARFARE Sustainable Development Series = Destruction of this Civilization -- Part 2 http://www.cuttingedge.org/NEWS /n1694.cfm See also: THE BAD NEWS IS THAT GLOBAL WARMING IS REAL! THE WORST POSSIBLE NEWS IS THAT SCIENTISTS ARE CREATING WARMING, STORMS, AND NATURAL DISASTERS!! We have been able to verify that scientists have been able to control Weather to the point of being able to use it as a military weapon, since the early 1970’s! The proof is in the secret U.N. Treaty we discovered! .... http://www.cuttingedge.org/News /n1196.cfm http://cuttingedge.org was probably the first place I ever heard of weather control. My computer just crashed a second time while I was trying to download this article: Weather control - SourceWatchWeather control, referred to here as "environmental modification techniques", ... transcript of a 1974 hearing on military rainmaking in the Vietnam War, ... http://www.sou rcewatch.org/index.php?title=Weather_control Here are some more articles that came up: Weather control has been something humans have desired for as long as they ... were the governments weather control experiments during Vietnam and other DOD ... http://www.factbites.com/topics/Weather-control Weather control This way it is much easier to control portions, hurricanes/storms, ... For example, rainmaking technology was taken for a few test rides in Vietnam. ... http://members.iimetro. com.au/~hubbca/weather.htm Weather -CE Home CONSPIRACY Health v medicine Science Scalar ...Weather control. Hurricane Andrew. Greenhouse Conspiracy ... We fought the Vietnam War from 1965-74 in a large capacity. Using Weather Weapons in the early ... http://members.iimetro.com.au/ ~hubbca/public_html/weather-ce.htm WEATHER MANIPULATION and THE RESULTS In ancient religions and legends, weather control, creation of cyclone, rain, flood, drought were nothing ... Kerry in Hurricane in Vietnam August 14, 2004 ... http://www.gr eatdreams.com/weather/weather_manipulation.htm I'm posting this before I crash again, and then I'm going to try to look at that article at sourcewatch.
I give up. I tried to pull up sourcewatch three times for the transcript of that hearing, and my computer crashed all three times. The last time I even tossed some things from my history file in order to free up space. I wonder if it's just me.
I believe that is correct. I've got the first two Barbarians books here. I've been selling them as a set for $50 and throw in a copy of Donn's special report on 9-11. I only have a few left. PM me if you want a set.
"To be nobody-but-yourself - in a world which is doing its best, night and day, to make you everybody else - means to fight the hardest battle which any human being can ever fight; and never stop fighting." E.E. Cummings
What is the URL?
"To be nobody-but-yourself - in a world which is doing its best, night and day, to make you everybody else - means to fight the hardest battle which any human being can ever fight; and never stop fighting." E.E. Cummings
Weather control - SourceWatchWeather control, referred to here as "environmental modification techniques", ... transcript of a 1974 hearing on military rainmaking in the Vietnam War, ... **** http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Weather_control It would start to come up, and then tell me I had performed an illegal operation, and my windows froze.
BTP, did you get a chance to try that URL? BTW, the following appears to be evidence that the US is capable of exercising control of the weather: Operation Garden Plot
I bookmarked it. I'll certainly take a look at it.
``We have got jobs that are available, that need to get done, that American citizens are not willing to do,'' Commerce Secretary Carlos Gutierrez
#2. To: mehitable (#1)
#3. To: who knows what evil (#2)
#4. To: mehitable (#3)
#5. To: Grumble Jones (#4)
#6. To: Brian S (#0)
the influx of immigrants has helped drive down compensation in occupations such as the needle trades, landscaping and restaurant help.
I've already said too much.
#7. To: mehitable (#1)
American citizens are not willing to do,'' Commerce Secretary Carlos Gutierrez
#8. To: mehitable (#5)
#9. To: Lady X (#7)
Americans won't do those jobs for 2 bucks a hour..
#10. To: Pissed Off Janitor (#9)
Americans can't do those jobs for 2 bucks a hour
#11. To: Grumble Jones, Brian S, mehitable, All (#4)
#12. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#11)
I just overheard on the boob tube that somewhere in HAARP-ravaged Katrina territory
#13. To: Grumble Jones (#12)
#14. To: Jethro Tull (#13)
#15. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt, tom007, RickyJ, Red Jones, Kamala, *KATRINA* (#11)
I just overheard on the boob tube that somewhere in HAARP-ravaged Katrina territory, the rulers are fixing to get visas for 3,000 CHINESE to build new homes down there, although there are Americans willing and able to do the work!
#16. To: Grumble Jones, All (#12)
#17. To: robin (#15)
Arrrrgh!!
#18. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#16)
#19. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#16)
More and more people have wised up to the HAARP-caused hurricanes. We now know that you can destroy people with water alone, forget the high winds, although, we are in "hurricane season", and I fully expect them to send a few our way to finish us off.
#20. To: Grumble Jones (#12)
The meterologist who answers weather questions has refused to answer my question for 3 days. Oddly, he's answering everyone elses. I don't think he has an answer.
#21. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#20)
#22. To: Red Jones (#18)
#23. To: Grumble Jones (#19)
I have a feeling NYC is going to get it this year.
#24. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#16)
He also hung up on me earlier this year when I tried to tell him the government was doing the weather.
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02] More and more of our imports come from overseas. - George W. Bush
#25. To: RickyJ, AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#24)
He also hung up on me earlier this year when I tried to tell him the government was doing the weather.
#26. To: BTP Holdings (#25)
Perhaps you have not looked in the right places. Col. Donn de Grand Pre confirms that the U.S. military has weather modification technology and THEY ARE USING IT!
#27. To: BTP Holdings, RickyJ, AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#25)
#28. To: Grumble Jones (#26)
They used it in Viet Nam. They've had it a long time.
#29. To: BTP Holdings (#28)
early 60s.
#30. To: Grumble Jones (#29)
Operation Popeye
#31. To: BTP Holdings (#30)
#32. To: BTP Holdings (#25)
Col. Donn de Grand Pre confirms that the U.S. military has weather modification technology and THEY ARE USING IT!
#33. To: Grumble Jones, BTP Holdings (#31)
Operati on Popeye
#34. To: BTP Holdings, Grumble Jones, RickyJ (#33)
#35. To: BTP Holdings (#25)
#36. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#32)
Where did he say this? Would that by any chance be in his book THE BARBARIANS ARE INSIDE THE GATE?
#37. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#35)
I tried to pull up sourcewatch three times for the transcript of that hearing
#38. To: BTP Holdings (#37)
#39. To: BTP Holdings, Grumble Jones, RickyJ (#37)
#40. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#39)
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