Title: Can anyone show me a controlled demolition company that uses Thermate? Source:
None URL Source:http://None Published:Jul 1, 2006 Author:Self Post Date:2006-07-01 17:55:03 by Critter Keywords:None Views:2960 Comments:98
I find only that RDX is used in controlled demolitions. I can't find any link between thermite, or thermate and controlled demolition except on pages discussing 9/11.
According to the manufacturer, the military hasn't purchased any of yet
sure
The Pentagon/govt gets all kinds of hardware before it ever goes commercial. Back in the early 90s I knew of a color printer that was held by Dept of Treasury for a couple years, before they would allow the manufacturer to sell it commercially. And a color printer is nothing compared to all the weaponry and gadgets. Same for encryption.
The federal govt must always be at least one generation ahead of commercial.
"If there’s another 9/11 or a major war in the Middle-East involving a U.S. attack on Iran, I have no doubt that there will be, the day after or within days an equivalent of a Reichstag fire decree that will involve massive detentions in this country."
You are right JT, and not only that, everything was cleaned up and scrubed in 6 months. If someone found something like this, how would they even know what it was.
The LEOs and rescue people were in the pit to look for survivors and body parts. That said, the "heavy lifting" was done by machine and debris was scooped up without regard to evidence – odd, since this was a crime scene.
Another problem is "thermite cutters" don't explode (they just burn), and hence another explanation for the "demolition explosion squibs" seen bursting out of some windows is needed.
I've racked my brains to try and understand those squibs. If there were many more of them, it would be obvious that they were explosions. But that they are so few and scattered in a random way, it doesn't seem to make sense.
Proponents of the Official Conspiracy Theory explain them away in a lot of ways. They also explain away the witnesses accounts of explosions. By explaining both of these oddities away, they unwittingly make more of a case for the use of a thermate cutting device.
It is fairly obvious from the way the building colapsed, and the debris it left, that this was anything but a gravitational collapse caused by impact damage and fire.
According to the manufacturer, the military hasn't purchased any of yet. Once the fellow I spoke with started undertanding why I was asking about it, he clammed up.
Actually, no. He sounded legit. He sounded like a guy a but unhappy that they went through a process of inventing, patenting and manufacturing something at the request of "special forces" and now has to find another market for the product. lol
But, I have little doubt that plenty of these devices were sent to the "special forces" for evaluation.
He sounded like a guy a bit unhappy that they went through a process of inventing, patenting and manufacturing something at the request of "special forces" and now has to find another market for the product.
I'm sure that there are plenty of organizations who would be ready buyers of this most useful product.
I've racked my brains to try and understand those squibs. If there were many more of them, it would be obvious that they were explosions. But that they are so few and scattered in a random way, it doesn't seem to make sense.
How about this explanation.. The squibs were seen on the outside of the buildings. Could it be that thermite cutters were used on the main support columns of the core, and explosives in just a few places on the outer members of the buildings, just to ensure a symetrical collapse? Also thermite is apparently hard to ignite. Could explosives have been used as the source of ignition?
As far as not finding any evidence of thermite cutters in the rubble, they probably would have been mangled beyond recognition by the weight of the debris. This of course on top of the fact as pointed out in the thread already of the cleanup being done under such tight security that anyone actually "looking" at the evidence were patsies...
Surgeon General's Warning: Society's problems must be solved. We have the solutions and you must buy them from us. No unauthorized solutions will be permitted.
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote" - Ben Franklin
I've been wondering, how fast will the thermite cutter go through the support columns? However many of them it would have taken, they had to have worked pretty quickly and in an extremely well controlled sequence to have caused the free-fall speed of the collapses.
When I first heard of molten iron being found a month or more later in the basement, my first thought was "how damned hot did whatever they used get?" I have been in the welding business for many years, and have NEVER seen metal get so hot as to stay molten for even a few minutes if that without a heat source continually applied. My first thought was "suitcase nukes"... And honestly, I'm still not convinced it WASN'T something like that... A nuclear reaction gets hot beyond belief. Of course, that doesn't account for Steven Jones' findings... UNLESS what he was testing was a remnant of aluminum from the plane along with iron from the building, leaving a residue like thermite would - and created by intense heat from tiny nukes...
Not likely we'll ever know the whole truth, past what we already know - it AIN'T the official story.
Surgeon General's Warning: Society's problems must be solved. We have the solutions and you must buy them from us. No unauthorized solutions will be permitted.
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote" - Ben Franklin
I'm sure that there are plenty of organizations who would be ready buyers of this most useful product.
In our first conversation on Sunday, I asked him if it was primarily being marketed to building demolition outfits. He said no, building demolitiomn is too small a market for this product.
That made me say hmmmmmm....
I was so trying not to give him my reasons for asking, but he got suspicious, by the questions I was asking. I figure anyone trying to sell to "special forces" isn't going to want to spill the beans about how many and for what, if he knows my purpose is to find out if his product helped take out the WTC. lol
I've racked my brains to try and understand those squibs. If there were many more of them, it would be obvious that they were explosions. But that they are so few and scattered in a random way, it doesn't seem to make sense.
Yeah. None of the theories explain all the "evidence", but the "evidence" seems to require multiple techniques (including hijacked planes). As the complexity grows, so does my skepticism.
There is an answer no doubt, but we may never grasp it. Too few facts, at present anyway.
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
I've been wondering, how fast will the thermite cutter go through the support columns? However many of them it would have taken, they had to have worked pretty quickly and in an extremely well controlled sequence to have caused the free-fall speed of the collapses.
The speed, I suspect, isn't near as important as the synchronization and timing. There was lots of time to do the cutting, and thermite (if a cutter can be properly positioned, triggered, and works horizontally) could take up to a minute to cut through 2.6in (thickness of the wall of a beam) of steel, if the cutter actually works horizontally and is not affected by gravity.
But thermite cutters would seem to be essentially "untested" techniques in bringing down a structure like the WTC. The perps would've had to test some against support beams just like those in the WTC and then get them installed and triggered in the right sequence. And getting that sequence right for each WTC tower seems improbable.
How many cutters? SWAG => figure 110 floors divided by 3 (assume cut every 3rd floor) times 44 central core beams times two towers = 110 / 3 x 44 x 2 = 3,226 cuts.
But that assumes 1 cutter can handle cutting an entire beam. Note however the patent app critter found suggests that several cutters could be ganged together in tandem to cut around the beam (3ft by 1ft rectangle = 8ft beam perimeter). Assume a cutter is 1 foot long, you'll need 8 cutters in tandem at each cut. So to make 3,226 cuts requires 3,226 cuts x 8 cutters/cut = 25,808 cutters positioned, triggered, and set off in the right sequence.
And it would take multiple cutters per cut; figure at least 2 3ft-cutters and 2-1ft cutters (assuming you can get them in different lengths) to get around the beam. Keep in mind you can't simply cut from one side or the beam would be partially cut through and start to far over (like a tree) instead of fall straight down as the pictures suggest.
And yet, both towers seem to have come down as if under controlled demolition, with material evidence of thermite, and squib evidence of explosives, and I don't believe burning jet fuel could suffice.
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
I don't follow where you're going with this. Why do you presume molten thermite/thermate ran horizontally across the face of a beam?
I don't assume that. I said:
But once ignited, the thermite/ thermate melts and liquifies as it burns and I would think gravity would pull the molten thermite/thermate out of the cut and down the face of the beam instead of across and horizontally through the cut.
So, I would expect molten thermite to run down the beam, instead of cut horizontally through it.
But to actually do the job of cutting horizontally across/through the beam (which is vertical), the "molten thermite" would have to defy gravity so to speak, and not flow down but instead flow across deeper and deeper into the cut.
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
So, I would expect molten thermite to run down the beam, instead of cut horizontally through it.
Stephen Jones put his professional reputation on the line with his discovery of termite on the debris, so whether it flowed vertical, horizontal or in a manner yet to be determined is losing the forest for the trees.
With a little preparation, it might flow where you wanted.
"If there’s another 9/11 or a major war in the Middle-East involving a U.S. attack on Iran, I have no doubt that there will be, the day after or within days an equivalent of a Reichstag fire decree that will involve massive detentions in this country."
With a little preparation, it might flow where you wanted.
See the Israeli art students. See them dance in the glow of the burning towers. See them get arrested, only to be released and given passage to Tel Aviv. See Fox News report story. Watch story disappear down the memory hole. And the wheel keeps on turning...
See the Israeli art students. See them dance in the glow of the burning towers. See them get arrested, only to be released and given passage to Tel Aviv. See Fox News report story. Watch story disappear down the memory hole. And the wheel keeps on turning...
JonBenet's not killer arrived at LAX like a rock star. That's the real news!
"If there’s another 9/11 or a major war in the Middle-East involving a U.S. attack on Iran, I have no doubt that there will be, the day after or within days an equivalent of a Reichstag fire decree that will involve massive detentions in this country."
I would expect at least a few empty discharged cutters would have been found in the debris.
And how do you know they weren't? The government - local, state and federal - began the transport of debris from the crime scene almost immediately, under police and military guard to landfill in Staten Island, NY which likewise was protected by local, state and federal authorities.
I don't know. I'm asking/suggesting what evidence (supportive of the thermite cutter theory) has the possibilty of being found, given the number of cutters required. If someone suggests to go back and look for evidence of "discharged cutters", even one would be very probative. Maybe some were seen but not recognized for what they were.
Absence of evidence is not evidence of conspiracy. It is simply information or facts we don't have. Everything else is speculation. And while the speculation may be plausible, that doesn't make it actual.
The only way I know to solve problems is to stay focused on the facts. Or put another way, if one doesn't know where they're going then any road will get them there, and they may as well shed intellectual inhibitions and invent whatever is most pleasing to them.
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
The security company, formerly named Securacom and now named Stratesec, is in Sterling, Va.. Its CEO, Barry McDaniel, said the company had a 'completion contract' to handle some of the security at the World Trade Center 'up to the day the buildings fell down.'
"If there’s another 9/11 or a major war in the Middle-East involving a U.S. attack on Iran, I have no doubt that there will be, the day after or within days an equivalent of a Reichstag fire decree that will involve massive detentions in this country."
Stephen Jones put his professional reputation on the line with his discovery of termite on the debris,
Actually, that would be his academic reputation (not quite the same thing) and I've yet to see his paper which is ostensibly undergoing peer review, ie the "proof" that thermite cutters or cutting charges has not been published, just his thermochemical analysis that thermite is plausible versus the burning jet fuel doesn't cut it.
so whether it flowed vertical, horizontal or in a manner yet to be determined is losing the forest for the trees.
It is easier to disprove (burning jet fuel) than it is to prove (thermite cutting). It's one matter to show thermite is plausible, but quite another to show it was causative.
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
Aren't these kinds of coincidences more important than just how they cut or drilled into the metal structure to direct the flow of the thermite?
Not necessarily more important, no.
Coincidences are not proof. They do not explain the symptoms/evidence of how the towers fell. Given that it is possible to link anyone in the world to anyone else through a mere six relationships, the sheer volume of plausible coincidences quickly overwhelms the evidence needing explanation.
If it can't be proven that explosives/cutters were used, then trying to prove how compromised security permitted the installation of unproven explosives/ cutters is pointless.
Exploration of the prequisites for various techniques eliminates the impossible and narrows focus to those possible, hopefully with enough evidence or data to make a conclusive determination of how it was done.
Proving how makes it easier to prove who.
If a very complex experimental thermite cutter was definitely used, that narrows follow up to who had access and opportunity to thermite cutters. If OTOH, standard demolition explosives were used, that would be a different avenue of investigation.
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
And yet, both towers seem to have come down as if under controlled demolition, with material evidence of thermite, and squib evidence of explosives, and I don't believe burning jet fuel could suffice.
The Official Conspiracy Theory says that the plane crash and subsequent fires cause weakening of steel and a resulting gravity collapse.
Defenders of the Official Conspiracy Theory say on one hand, ti was essentially very easy to take down the towers. Cut about 15% (I don't know exact %) of the core and perimeter columns on one or two floors and start a fire. But then on the other hand, they tell us that it would take weeks, if not months to rig the building to come down in a controlled demolition.
I suspect the truth lies somewhere in between.
I have seen videos that show the squibs. I have also seen videos that show possible several hundred feet of core sections still standing for several seconds after the collapse.
The way the debris is scattered and the variation of the sizes of the pieces of core and perimeter columns suggest to me that if explosives or thermite cutters were used, they were not used very extensively.
My original theory was that the core was attacked in the basement levels to help initiate the collapse. If a six foot section was taken out of all 44 columns somewhere on a basement level at the same time, what effect would that have on the tower?
My original theory was that the core was attacked in the basement levels to help initiate the collapse. If a six foot section was taken out of all 44 columns somewhere on a basement level at the same time, what effect would that have on the tower?
That sounds pretty plausible to me... See my post #68
Take out the base with that much weight above it, and somethin is gonna go.
Given the amount and size of thermite cutters it would have taken, it seems to me implausible that even though in the prior weeks there were "shutdowns" described by Daria Corde, SOMEONE independent of the "team" would have noticed something not right......
Of course, I'd never been to the towers. I have no idea of the parking area. It may have been an easy thing to get anything in the buildings without any possibility of being seen by anyone.
"Give me liberty, or give me death!" - Patrick Henry
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote" - Ben Franklin
Watch story disappear down the memory hole. And the wheel keeps on turning...
JonBenet's not killer arrived at LAX like a rock star. That's the real news!
AHHHH the ol memory hole.. And the media seems to downplay the girl's parents who INTENTIONALLY made the girl into a beauty queen attempting to make her twice her actual age... In other words, EXPLOITED her to a sinful degree, thus opening up the possibility of making her a target to some sick SOB.
And another memory hole victim is Randy Weaver, who lost his son and wife to masked government snipers on Aug 21, 1992 in Ruby Ridge simply because he refused to snitch on some supposed acquaintences while they had him in custody for charges which they had entrapped him in.. Wasn't Aug 21 the day they JB killer(?) was being flown here in luxury???
"Give me liberty, or give me death!" - Patrick Henry
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote" - Ben Franklin
And another memory hole victim is Randy Weaver, who lost his son and wife to masked government snipers on Aug 21, 1992 in Ruby Ridge simply because he refused to snitch on some supposed acquaintences while they had him in custody for charges which they had entrapped him in.. Wasn't Aug 21 the day the JB killer(?) was being flown here in luxury???
Thanks for not letting us forget, no matter what tactics they use to distract us.
"If there’s another 9/11 or a major war in the Middle-East involving a U.S. attack on Iran, I have no doubt that there will be, the day after or within days an equivalent of a Reichstag fire decree that will involve massive detentions in this country."
The only way I know to solve problems is to stay focused on the facts.
Agreed.
And in this case, facts certainly don't support the official story. SOMETHING caused vertical columns to "break" in two all along their lengths. STEEL bends, long before it breaks. And those vertical columns weren't going to bend easily.
I have been in the welding business many years, and I can tell you for a fact that any flame without the benefit of an oxidizer (oxygen added to the acetylene flame) will not melt thick steel. It MIGHT melt something very thin (like the thickness of a 55 gallon steel drum) after a VERY long time.... I'm sure we've all seen automobiles that burned to a crisp, yet the metal shell of the car remains relatively intact. They don't just melt to the ground, and this is extremely thin material compared to what we are talking about in the towers. Thus jet fuel CANNOT cause sufficient temperature to have any significant effect on those vertical columns. POSSIBLY on horizontal ones, given enough time.
I have seen first hand the effects of fire in buildings which took hours to extinguish, and ALL vertical columns were very much intact; even though some horizontal beams had sagged somewhat in the middle.. However, the sagging was from intense heat directly below the beam allowing it to stretch under it's own weight in the middle of the span. It did NOT pull the vertical columns off of plumb.. And these columns were nowhere NEAR the size of the ones used in the towers. In fact, they were merely I-beams, which would be nowhere near as ridgid as rectangular tubing.
No sir, those main support columns were compromised by something other than fires. And pancaking doesn't cut it either. If the horizontal beams HAD for some inexplicable reason sheared loose from the columns, the columns STILL would have remained standing until enough beams had broken away as to make them unstable enough to sway and fall over (given their size, several hundred feet) and even then, they would have BENT long before breaking.
"Give me liberty, or give me death!" - Patrick Henry
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote" - Ben Franklin
And in this case, facts certainly don't support the official story.
Agreed, at least not the facts as known to date.
SOMETHING caused vertical columns to "break" in two all along their lengths.
'twould seem so.
STEEL bends, long before it breaks. And those vertical columns weren't going to bend easily.
There certainly did not appear to be long (dozens of floor heights) continuously bent and/or crumbpled steel support columns in the rubble. The rubble did seem to show numerous sections (of a few floor heights, consistently) of what were once near- continuous steel support columns.
Lastly, the commission's failure or unwilingness to address issues like what brought down WTC7 indicate to me that the research and investigation remain incomplete, even officially.
(The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
My original theory was that the core was attacked in the basement levels to help initiate the collapse. If a six foot section was taken out of all 44 columns somewhere on a basement level at the same time, what effect would that have on the tower?
Did you see my post #68? I sure can't say that I'm hitting on something there, but to me it seems a plausible idea. Years of welding in the construction industry, knowledge of how buildings are put together along with materials used, and a little common sense all point to "something rotten in Denmark".
How many "nuke" explosive devices of sufficient energy to take out a column could be carried in a single briefcase?? I don't know, but I would think several. I would also think setup time would be significantly shortened, as my thinking would suggest less precision would be needed in placement...
"Give me liberty, or give me death!" - Patrick Henry
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote" - Ben Franklin
#95. To: innieway, christine, starwind, sky drifter (#93)
The video that was posted by, I think, Christine, shot from across the bay, showed very clearly HUGE explosions ejecting material from the ground level about 20 degrees off vertical easily 100 feet high.
The man shooting the video had pro quality equipment, and knew what he was doing.
Theses were tremendous explosions, clearly heard and seen. Then, some seconds later the collapse began.
I have no idea why this fellow's video is not front and center in the 9-11 debate.
I think it is safe to say the fellow dosn't put much into the standard 9-11 line.