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9/11
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Title: 'Airlines terror plot' disrupted
Source: BBC
URL Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4778575.stm
Published: Aug 10, 2006
Author: BBC
Post Date: 2006-08-10 08:48:49 by Jethro Tull
Keywords: None
Views: 1213
Comments: 137

A plot to blow up planes in flight from the UK to the US and commit "mass murder on an unimaginable scale" has been disrupted, Scotland Yard has said. It is thought the plan was to detonate explosive devices smuggled in hand luggage on to as many as 10 aircraft.

- Snip

Poster Comment:

The "plot" was that they would carry liquids aboard, mix them in flight, then detonate them.

Joe Lieberman, where are you when we need you???

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 65.

#1. To: Jethro Tull (#0)

Doesn't sound like much of a plot, if you ask me.

BTP Holdings  posted on  2006-08-10   9:11:37 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Doesn't sound like much of a plot, if you ask me.

It smells to me.

I read small note on this subject that all people were "homegrown" Brits.

Somehow I do not think the bad guys would trust such aa affair to "foreigners".

Cynicom  posted on  2006-08-10   9:16:53 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

OK, Joe Lieberman loses on Tuesday, and the "terrorists" are going to blow us up on Thursday. Sure....

Jethro Tull  posted on  2006-08-10   9:38:38 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Thank G-d no Jews were targeted on this lastest Jihad on Jewish supremacy...but should distract us away from Hizzbollah mopping the floor with the IDF.

Eoghan  posted on  2006-08-10   9:43:16 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

...but should distract us away from Hizzbollah mopping the floor with the IDF...

A more interesting side query to that comment is how the hell did Hezbollah all of the sudden come up with what to all outside appearances seems to be the best fighting force fielded by Islamics since Saladin?

Typically, Islamic forces (somewhat excepting mountain people in Chechnya and Afghanistan) have always displayed indifference to anything resembling logical strategic and tactical doctrine when engaging western forces (If you want to see the most ridiculous example of this there is some after action reporting by the Pakistani military on their second war with India that reads like a comedy from a military doctrine standpoint. So and so displeased Allah by partaking in spirits and women and was therefore defeated etc...). More often than not, local victory was won through incompetence of the opposition, or the propensity of the Islamic side to perservere without thought to the cost in materials or bodies.

All of the sudden you have a force of several brigades size that is innovative, doesn't waste lives, and knows how to put limited resources to maximum use. They particularly appear to show an enhanced ability to operate with a high level of initiative and autonomy in small units.

The politics of the conflict aside, I've always thought that constant low grade warfare without conclusion (which I believe is fostered by international finacial interests) was a very poor long term strategy for the western world because it exposes the opposition to exist under high intensity, long term, selective pressure that makes them better. We are probably seeing the results of this here.

The downside is that it is going to put pressure on the Israelis and the US to conclude conflicts with much greater levels of destruction and to definitely poke and prod Iran into doing something that allows us to pound them hard without suffering from public backlash...

Axenolith  posted on  2006-08-10   10:43:48 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

(If you want to see the most ridiculous example of this there is some after action reporting by the Pakistani military on their second war with India that reads like a comedy from a military doctrine standpoint. So and so displeased Allah by partaking in spirits and women and was therefore defeated etc...).

I've got to find that after action report! That sounds hysterical.

I think that you're correct on the weeding out process that has gone on. Over the past 15 years, there have been many places that potential guerilla (I'll use that as a catch-all term) leaders could have gone to train, between the former Yugoslavia, Chechnya (1994 and 1999-and they would learn a lot more 1999-present) Afghanistan and Iraq, plus the Israeli-Lebanon thing for 20 years. In all those places the state forces have used slightly different tactics, so if a leader was in two of them for a good length of time, they would gather a tremendous wealth of knowledge of what works.

There's been Chechens captured in Afghanistan by the US, and the Chechen websites have indicated sometimes that there are Chechen forces fighting all over hell to breakfast, so I don't think that it's too fare beyond the pale to believe that the current Hezbollah leadership hasn't experienced at least a few other places. If said leader fought against the Russians they would find out what worked against brute force applied liberally, and then if they also fought us in Iraq, they'd find out what works against technology and brute force applied liberally.

I've read most about Chechnya, and the tactics by the insurgency against us in Iraq (though Chechens are never insurgents or terrorists and Iraqis are never freedom fighters according to our official and press releases) and the Chechens have always been tenacious, creative and innovative in the way they do their operations. An interesting thing is that it appears that their operations performed a weeding out of sorts in the Russian Army, which has caused it to get more effective and seemingly to learn some lessons on what works and what doesn't, which is why Chechnya is a much more calm place than Iraq is right now. If Hezbollah has some leaders like Basayev in Lebanon, they would be a formidable force to deal with.

I'm also curious to know if the IDF has become a technology dependent force like we have, where initiative and creative thinking are strongly disuaded. I think that this is not the same IDF of a generation ago. Not actually engaging in actions such as they are created a mystique of invincibility that is now gone (so is ours). Their initial dependence on airpower alone (paging Gen Douhet yet again) which hasn't really been effective as a war stopper even though it's been tried nearly every conflict since 1920 (sure, the Luftwaffe can destroy the British at Dunkirk on their own) seems to indicate that they bought into the defense contractor's sales pitches about the effectiveness of the weapons they were buying.

historian1944  posted on  2006-08-10   13:34:25 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

#71. To: historian1944 (#65)

Their initial dependence on airpower alone (paging Gen Douhet yet again) which hasn't really been effective as a war stopper even though it's been tried nearly every conflict since 1920 (sure, the Luftwaffe can destroy the British at Dunkirk on their own) seems to indicate that they bought into the defense contractor's sales pitches about the effectiveness of the weapons they were buying.

Good information and post - thanks.

Unless you're crazy enough to play the nuke card, bombing has never proven to be the way to go.

Lod  posted on  2006-08-10 13:47:10 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

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