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Title: Free Speech on Freedom4um
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://none
Published: Aug 18, 2006
Author: Christine
Post Date: 2006-08-18 12:01:37 by christine
Keywords: None
Views: 14019
Comments: 173

It is time for me to address the issue of "free speech" on Freedom4um. My free speech means that I have 100% control over what I say and everyone else has 0% control over what I say. Now, I understand that there are consequences to exercising my right to free speech, but I still retain 100% control.

Free speech means that I have a right to express or spew thoughts and words of preference, love, hate, or anything with which another may disagree. That said, the rules or policies of this forum, which is my private property (see this forum's Mission Statement), are that members can exercise free speech as long as they (1) do not make a specific threat against an identifiable person or target, (2) earnestly debate or discuss the relevant issues that are part and parcel of this forum's reason-to-be. Let me remind you that these are rules for this forum and, as such, do not necessarily apply off of this forum, as public laws should, in most cases, be even less restrictive than private property rules and regulations.

Again, free speech on this forum means that people can express their love or hatred for anyone, any group, any race, any culture, or any thing, as long as they adhere to the two contingencies listed above. Everyone else on this forum is similarly at liberty to exercise their free speech right to challenge, debate, argue, or agree with the ideas and speech of another.

We will not censor speech as we abhor political correctness and authoritarianism as well as those thought-control and speech-control tyrants who would restrict another's speech. Any limitation on thought and speech constitutes the first level of the destruction of all remaining rights. Afterall, the framers of the Constitution believed that free speech was the most fundamental right to be protected which was the reason that they placed it FIRST in the Bill of Rights.

I do not say this lightly, but anyone who cannot handle the content of another's speech may not be suitable for this forum. Such a person may be better suited for a forum whose moderators control and steer the forum's ideas and speech in a given direction.

Many people have no concept of what Free Speech and Freedom really mean. Do you?

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  

Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 34.

#16. To: christine (#0)

My free speech means that I have 100% control over what I say and everyone else has 0% control over what I say.

This is license, not a standard.

If “free speech” tolerates lies and hatred and knowingly allows attempts to intentionally mislead the reader, of what positive value is it? That “standard” has no content. Anything goes. As a standard, it’s pure rhetoric.

Does 4um benefit by allowing lies and gossip to be spread across the net? Does society benefit? Does truth matter? Or should the standard be driven by something meaningful? I don’t allow people to come into my home and spit on the floor or defecate on my living room rug. Manners matter.

Does or should free speech include, among other things, expressing an opinion such as this one that may not be popular with the owners?

And feel free to ban me or invite me to leave at any time.

Phaedrus  posted on  2006-08-18   13:47:02 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

If “free speech” tolerates lies and hatred and knowingly allows attempts to intentionally mislead the reader, of what positive value is it? That “standard” has no content. Anything goes. As a standard, it’s pure rhetoric.

Does 4um benefit by allowing lies and gossip to be spread across the net? Does society benefit? Does truth matter?

Indeed, TRUTH matters. That is the very reason for allowing 100% free speech. As soon as you censor speech, how do we know if and when the truth is being censored; and the bigger question is, WHO gets to decide what is truth and what is lie?

The beauty of the internet and of forums that do not censor speech is that everything is allowed to be stated -- the good, the bad, and the ugly; the lies and the truth. But at least it's all there. It is up to each individual to sort out the lies from the truth, objectivity from subjectivity, accuracy from inaccuracy, fact from fiction. That is true freedom.

It is up to the posters to expose the lies by documenting the truth, not by gagging the liar. Expose the liar for what he is. That's the real job of a free press and that should be the goal of the forum posters. For it to be any other way only permits an environment wherein the biases and agenda of the owners, moderators, or complaining posters become the only "truth" that is heard.

This is the very problem we have with the mainstream media. They censor, filter, and omit. How can the truth possibly be revealed with such practices and policies?

I would rather have all the views, opinions, positions, conclusions, etc. on the table, even if 99% are falsities and lies, than have any type of censorship. At least in that environment, I can search for and hopefully find the few nuggets of truth.

Freedom William  posted on  2006-08-18   14:05:41 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I would rather have all the views, opinions, positions, conclusions, etc. on the table, even if 99% are falsities and lies, than have any type of censorship. At least in that environment, I can search for and hopefully find the few nuggets of truth.

Well, we obviously disagree. I have no wish to wade through a sea of lies and bad manners to find a few nuggets of truth when it would be so easy to be rid of known, repeat-offender liars and those who indulge in personal attacks as argument. Of what value whatever is there in such tolerance?

Here’s Fred on anti-Semitism in his most recent column:

A reasonable person might believe, for example, that Jews exert too much influence over American foreign policy and various domestic policies, but also grant without demur that Jews had contributed much to the economy, the sciences, and the arts. The details could be debated, but the position is not that of a Hater. The Hater in anti-Semitic form cannot go for ten minutes in private conversation without adverting with hostility to various crimes and conspiracies which he attributes to Jews, and can never concede that Jews every, however inadvertently, have done anything good. He is obsessive about it.

Julius Streicher, Catharine MacKinnon, Jesse Jackson, And David Duke

The point being of what positive value whatever are lies and hate? The caveat is, of course, that lies and hate cannot always be identified because they often shroud themselves in supposed fact. But so what? If in doubt, tolerate. If not, ban. It takes judgement and maturity, and if a few "mistakes" are made, so what? We deal in words only here, not actions.

Phaedrus  posted on  2006-08-18   14:23:39 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

#44. To: Phaedrus (#34)

I have no wish to wade through a sea of lies and bad manners to find a few nuggets of truth when it would be so easy to be rid of known, repeat-offender liars and those who indulge in personal attacks as argument.

I, too, would prefer not to wade through a sea of lies. For example, that is exactly what I must do everytime I read my newspaper, or turn on the TV and watch the "news", or listen to the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Alan Colmes, Barbara Walters, Dan Rather, etc. ad nauseum.

But, you see, rather than gag the gaggle of "repeat-offender liars" (as you say), I would rather have forums like this one, that you seem to tolerate, as well as other non-censored sites on the internet, to expose these liars and propagandists for what they are, by documenting the truth, rather than having to ask Phaedrus and his ilk about that which should be allowed or not allowed to be posted.

Freedom William  posted on  2006-08-18 14:37:30 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Define truth as you see it.

You realize, of course, that generally people say the truth as they see it... and many will use those very words when answering questions. Certainly Bill and Hill, or at least some of their relations did....I heard her mother say on more than one occasion, 'he/she answered with the truth as they see it'.

Each of us have to find truth for ourselves. Which is the truth sayer: John said the car is blue while Carol swore it was red?

As Freedom William indicated, one has to assimilate what is presented, chew it over, and determine which is correct.

In the example I provided you above, the police found that the car involved with hitting the pedestrian was painted blue on the left and red on the right.

See how the lens thru which you see things may well not be how I see those same things.

So tell me who is right...........the 'd' or the 'r', or the 'l' and the 'r' in this case? I'm sorry, I should be nice and say, 'you' or 'me' or 'the guy behind the tree' and the other is lying.

rowdee  posted on  2006-08-18 14:48:38 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

The Hater in anti-Semitic form cannot go for ten minutes in private conversation without adverting with hostility to various crimes and conspiracies which he attributes to Jews

LOL! Just turn on most any AM talk radio show for a rundown of Muslim conspiracies by Mike Streicher-Savage-Wiener and Co for that advertisement. Funny thing is they ignore the Zionist domination of media and government.

bluegrass  posted on  2006-08-18 14:49:54 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I have no wish to wade through a sea of lies and bad manners to find a few nuggets of truth when it would be so easy to be rid of known, repeat-offender liars and those who indulge in personal attacks as argument.

Why don't you just cut to the chase and list some of these so-called "known, repeat-offenders" you want Christine and Zipporah to ban, instead of whining like a little girl?

Go on, show us who these evil "liars and attackers" are that you feel need to be silenced.

Esso  posted on  2006-08-18 14:52:56 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

The point being of what positive value whatever are lies and hate? The caveat is, of course, that lies and hate cannot always be identified because they often shroud themselves in supposed fact. But so what? If in doubt, tolerate. If not, ban

Whose judgement wouldst thou use to determine the veracity of the words? You admitted yourself that lies and hate can not be readily identified.
Your post is an oxymoron. [You also contradicted yourself.]

Example: A few here believe that commercial jet contrails are "chem trails." Are they lying? Of course not. The deceivers on the chemtrail sites may be lying for profit, but those who believe them may simply be misguided and deceived. Besides, nobody can know the real truth about this because TheStateInc plays it too close to the vest. So we disagree. Who is lying? Answer: Nobody.

Therefore, tell me please...whose judgement wouldst thou use to dtermine the veracity of a post?

Free speech can not be restricted. This now fascist country began its spiral to political correctness and repudiation of the Constitution years ago and we've paid the price with a new link in our chains every day. It is the one thing that, thankfully, is still sacred here on 4UM.

If it were to deteriorate to the level of an LP or FR, I would have the choice to fill my bozo list first, and thereafter to leave..which I would. That is also everyone's choice here.

Rarely do I see any ad hominems here. LP is FULL of them, the most intellectually and creatively lethargic slur of which is the term "moonbat."

IndieTX  posted on  2006-08-18 17:34:34 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

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