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Title: Bigotry and Ignorance of Islam
Source:
Antiwar.com
URL Source: http://www.antiwar.com/reese/?articleid=9608
Published: Aug 29, 2006
Author: Charley Reese
Post Date: 2006-08-29 04:17:53 by Zoroaster
Keywords: None
Views: 1064
Comments: 70
August 29, 2006 Bigotry and Ignorance of Islam by Charley Reese President George Bush's ignorance of the Middle East and its people is well-known. So also is his habit of parroting words and sentences given to him by other people. He hit a new low when he referred to "Islamic fascists." No two more opposite concepts are to be found. Fascism glorifies the nation-state; Islam is transnational. Fascism demands slavish devotion to a national leader; Muslims are far too independent-minded to be slavish followers of anybody. Virtually all the people Saddam Hussein murdered were people trying to overthrow him. Fascism is militaristic. Islam is not. Mr. Bush, who has dubbed himself the "war president," has made a pathetic and absurd effort to picture himself as Winston Churchill facing off against evil. He is no Churchill. Most of the enemies he imagines, he has created himself. The West faces no threat from Islam. Islam is one of the fastest-growing religions in the world, but it really is a religion of peace. More importantly, it is a religion that concentrates on individual salvation. There is no Muslim pope, no College of Cardinals, no bishops, no priesthood. Any five Muslims anywhere in the world can start their own mosque. Imams are teachers and, like Protestant preachers or Jewish rabbis, can be fired by their congregation. The Shi'ite version is slightly more organized. A fatwa is a statement issued by an imam, usually explanatory. It is similar to statements issued by the pope, with this important difference: No Muslim is bound by any fatwa. Muslims are free to pay attention to it or to ignore it. Islam, like Christianity, is a universal religion that ignores nationality, race or color. To become a Muslim, one must profess belief in one God, acknowledge Muhammad as his prophet, recognize the Quran as the word of God, pray five times a day, provide for the poor and, if possible, make a trip to Mecca once in your lifetime. The God Muslims worship is the same God Christians and Jews worship. To dispose of some of the slanderous misstatements being floated about, Islam forbids forced conversions. People would do well to read some history rather than rely on ignorant and malicious radio and TV talk-show hosts. The oldest Christian communities in the world are all in Muslim countries. There have always been Christian and Jewish communities in the Muslim world. Muslims are commanded to treat Christians and Jews as they would treat themselves. They revere Jesus as a prophet and highly respect the Virgin Mary. The disputes you see in the modern Middle East are not religious; they are all about secular matters, principally Israeli occupation of Arab lands. The Arabs see Israel as the last European colonialist state imposed on them by the European powers. That's true, in fact. Hamas and Islamic Jihad are concerned only with ending Israeli occupation of Palestine. Hezbollah is concerned with ending Israeli occupation of Lebanon. Al-Qaeda wants to overthrow the Persian Gulf governments and is at war with us because we are the principal backers and supporters of those governments. Al-Qaeda alone is most un-Islamic and has been so labeled by a majority of Muslims. It is a small group. If you wish to understand Islam, turn off your TV and go to the library. Introduce yourself to some of America's 6 million Muslims. You'll find them to be very decent and patriotic people. There are some fanatics among Muslims, just as there are among Jews and Christians. Most of the New England states were originally populated by people fleeing Puritan rule in Massachusetts. The way to combat the fanatics is to extend the hand of friendship to ordinary Muslims and to protest the slander and libel of Muslims and Islam, just as you should protest the slander and libel of Jews and other groups. Bigotry should have no place in our public dialogue, regardless of the target. It's obvious that President Bush will never understand the world into which he was born, but most Americans have more open minds – except, of course, those who prefer to click their heels and salute when their Fuehrer of choice speaks.
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#3. To: Zoroaster (#0)
Importing Islam is a threat to the West, granted not a big one in light of other more pressing issues. It's culture is alien, and having an alien network, be it to an abstract God or an abstract state in the Middle East is not a good thing. Reese is guilty of creating a dichotimy of black and white rather than operating in the gray. Secondly, facsicm is a rightwing social-democrat response that protected the role of the Church, Money and the Military, which politically made them opposite their close cousins the Leftwing Social Democrat. (I for one see National Socialism as an entity that looks to overthrow or co-opt the Church, the military, industry for its own purpose.) Thus Islamo-facism doesn't make any sense as Reese notes because the pillars that make up the classical Western state, a formal Church, Military, Industry simply aren't there.
Religion is a creation of man, not God. Therefore, religions have their places in time and space. The West, as the invader of Islam's territory, is clearly the beast of prey.
Life is a tragedy to those who feel, and a comedy to those who think.
The invader? The West turned a secular republic into an Islamic Republic and with its idiot policy of encrouaging mob rule, the West has strengthened Islam amongst its worst lot. Add in the money the West offers when Muslim populations settle, work, and profit here, and its a bad situation all around.
True enough, though Bush and his warmongering cabal are clearly the invaders of Iraq. It's a mess, and I'm not certain whether it's unintentional or designed. The Iraqi death toll since the latest invasion probably exceeds 100,000, add to this Gulf War I and the sanctions the total may be in the millions. Perhaps mass genocide was the plan all along. If the Muslim population goes unchecked, demographics will swallow Israel in the next generation, and Iran appears to be the next target.
Life is a tragedy to those who feel, and a comedy to those who think.
Your post illustrates the danger of reverse pan-Arab thinking. Iraq was not a Muslim country, and has Scheurer said, the Bush Regime, or really, the agenda of the permanent government is Osama's greatest ally, which should be understood as Radical/militant Islam's greatest ally. You are correct in regards to stating Likudnick/Israeli rightwing strategic calculus regarding demographics, but in turn, you are legitmizing their position and their point that they are fighting for their lives. The challenge is to stay out of this sort of diametric thinking, no? I don't think the Middle East policy is anything more than its doable. Our morally bankrupt leaders don't think that deep.
Exactly. There is nothing to fear except Bush himself.
Whatever problems people of one religion have with with the people of another, they are going to have to be adults and work out their differences. Islam is one of the world's major religions, it has over a billion believers. It is not going away. The U.S. Constitution allows freedom of religion and that is not going away. I have many friends of all faiths including that of Islam, but Sunni and Shiite. I would stand with them to defend their right to their religion in this country every bit as much as I would defend Judaism, Christianity, or any other religion to exist unlynched and unmolested by intolerant ideologues who want to exacerbate tensions and try to take away their right of freedom to worship as they chose. It doesn't get any simpler than that, you are going to have to get along, or do away with the keystone of our government, the U.S. Constitution. And that is unacceptable.
I have no love for the Constitution which I consider a usurption of the perfectly functioning Articles of Confederation, but it appears you suffer from the 'libertarian' disease, that tendency to deny the reality that if you put two different peoples, regardless of anything else, in close proximity they will compete for favors from the state which causes disharmony and angst. The State welcomes this, encourages this, and subsidizes this, as it justifies its existance as the final arbitrator. The best scenario is keeping different folks seperate in their own region, practically make them stay, make them learn patria, let capital and trade flow freely. George Washington in his Farewell Address, the only version of a republic centered in DC that I can accept, understood the fear isn't just foreign influence, but the tendency for folks to see threats only on one side or the other, rather than from all sides. Religous intolerance, tribal intolerance, these are facts of life, for better or worse, and its simply acknowledging a heresy, that the neocons are correct when they say we are a nation founded on a creed, as opposed to a historical nation.
Exactly. There is nothing to fear except Bush himself. lol! Welcome to 4 bluedog!
"If there’s another 9/11 or a major war in the Middle-East involving a U.S. attack on Iran, I have no doubt that there will be, the day after or within days an equivalent of a Reichstag fire decree that will involve massive detentions in this country." - Daniel Ellsberg Author, Pentagon Papers perspicacious.
"Freedom4um" -- The Forum for Real Americans and where America and Americans are always First!
LOL, I had to look-up what that word meant.
How are the Articles of Confederation so superior? "If there’s another 9/11 or a major war in the Middle-East involving a U.S. attack on Iran, I have no doubt that there will be, the day after or within days an equivalent of a Reichstag fire decree that will involve massive detentions in this country." - Daniel Ellsberg Author, Pentagon Papers Hey, JG. Good to see you. And by the way, you're wrong. People have to flow across regional boundaries, too. Are there going to be conflicts? Sure. Are there going to be competing interests trying to curry favor with the gummint? Sure. I'm not saying we need to open all borders, but I adhere to the notion that diversity is a GOOD thing, in pretty much every way. Consider Georgia, whose ethnic makeup has changed little in the past century (relatively) and California or New York, which have seen emigrations and immigrations and flux and flow. Georgia is comparatively stultified, culturally and economically. That's not to knock Georgia, because tradition and conservatism have their place, but it is not just the free flow of ideas, money and goods that create 'wealth'. The flow of culture itself is beneficial.
Well someone's awake. ;P That said, I think life would become dull under John's Balkanized Utopia. The food for example, would be really bland.
"If there’s another 9/11 or a major war in the Middle-East involving a U.S. attack on Iran, I have no doubt that there will be, the day after or within days an equivalent of a Reichstag fire decree that will involve massive detentions in this country." - Daniel Ellsberg Author, Pentagon Papers The Constitution is not going away, and neither is the inalterable and elegantly simple fact that hateful ideologues like you are not going to get they way when it comes to lynching any religion that strikes you as wrong. There are hundreds of millions of Muslims who are peaceful and productive people who do not deserve to be victims of hateful and inaccurate rhetoric such as yours'. Islam is a religion that needs to get along with other faiths, and other faiths need to get along with that. That just is not going to change. Get used to it.
I belong to the Pacific Green Party, not the Libertarian.
It created an extremely weak central government that had no power. It doesn't mean each state didn't have its own problems but as a document, it was very much against the sort of supra-state we have come to know and not really care for.
Small 'l' libertarian, not capital 'L'. Who mentioned anything about party affiliation? The Tower of Babel is a tale of warning.
Power rested with the state govts? Gotcha.
"If there’s another 9/11 or a major war in the Middle-East involving a U.S. attack on Iran, I have no doubt that there will be, the day after or within days an equivalent of a Reichstag fire decree that will involve massive detentions in this country." - Daniel Ellsberg Author, Pentagon Papers The Constitution is already gone. It was practically dead as soon as it was ratified by means of threats and bribes. The rest of your post has nothing to do with anything save in your little abstract One-Worldisms.
You are speaking of two different issues. For example, I support the free flow of labor, a loose border, between Canada and my native lands. Our border issues are different than the issues of the Southwest. To appeal to a libertarian abstract that somehow all borders are the same is a non-starter. I support more immigration from Europe, less from Somalia...I don't like how they treat babygirls no more than I like folks who eat horse meat or cats or dogs. It doesn't follow that what I really mean is bombs and boxcars. I would be a fool to not note the obvious that when alien peoples are imported either for labor or to be clients of the welfare state, conflict insues. Mediating those conflicts in the interests of my family, the core unit of resistance to tyranny, requires different things at different times. Often, when folks mean diversity, they mean to change their own culture. How many people left in the US of A can trace back their family to the early 1900s? The War Between the States? The Revolution? The American civilization that existed in the century and a half before the New Englanders said 'enough to all that'? That is diversity, real diversity, as opposed to appealing to an abstract that we are really all the same, boys and girls, settler Americans, versus transnational/welfare state Americans. The end I have in mind is peace and prosperity which encourages high culture and great beauty like Mozart, or something simple like a fine local ale brewed from a local artisan. And indeed, good to see you as well. It's more fun to not be on the same side on a board like this, I find. It's our difference that are interesting.
The Articles of Confederation never worked. It created a situation where the several states were creating conflict and disunity and it made the Constitution inevitable. Thanks for your interesting perspective. However you live in lala land. The U.S. Constitution will always be attacked by intolerant people who want the oppression and will of a majority -like a religion such as Christianity - to run over any minority faiths that annoy and irritate them. The Constitution is alive and is not going away. It protects minorities - including religions - from the whims and caprice of the majority. I am Wiccan, and I have experienced what it is like to be slandered and harassed by those who think "this is a Christian nation," and that anyone not going along with the tyranny of the majority should be set upon and assaulted and gotten rid of. The U.S. Constitution prohibits the irrational lynching of Islam or any other faith. And if you don't like it, that is your problem. If people like you tried to change this, others and I would fight you with every fiber of our beings. The Constitution is not going anywhere. It has it's graces and flaws like any other man made document, but it is an inspired piece of work, and it has stood the test of time, and will continue to do so for a long time.
Not to go alt history on this thread, but after the Revolution, there was a lot of outstanding debt which was used to "pay" soldiers during the war. The notes the soldiers owned were worthless as there was not enough specie to pay them. Speculators began offering 10 cents on a dollar to soldiers now farmers, artisans etc until almost all of the notes were in the hands of the few, seriously like 10 people. These ten people then launched a program for a great coup, getting governments to agree to fund the pensions in full which would require taxing the ex-soldiers now farmers, artisans etc. In order to pull this off a central government was dreamed of that would inherit the debt of the states and the basis for our ruling elite was set in stone.
That is lie. You post on an anon posting board and if you call that fighting with every fiber of your being, you are a simple chickenhawk.
I thought they were paying the soldiers off with land in the frontier? That served two purposes, at least. I know that a couple of my ancestors were granted acres in KY (still VA frontier) after the War of 1812. One of them blessed almost all his children with the middle name Jackson, including the girls.
"If there’s another 9/11 or a major war in the Middle-East involving a U.S. attack on Iran, I have no doubt that there will be, the day after or within days an equivalent of a Reichstag fire decree that will involve massive detentions in this country." - Daniel Ellsberg Author, Pentagon Papers That was one way for states with large frontiers to deal with the issue, but it was states like Massachusetts where Shay's Rebellion brewed. The ruling elite, the Hancocks and Adams, who had said all kinds of 'crazy' things about rights and what not, turned on a dime, as was to be expected when the situation changed. I think the lesson is that the centralization and debt are destructive enemies towards liberty. New England was done with the Brits, more or less, save Newport RI and the Maine frontier, but they had many a patriot who wanted to keep on fighting in a formal central army, rather than the more moral form of completely decentralized guerilla warfare that had brought them success.
I guess they couldn't lure them all out west. What a sad reason to create a monster.
"If there’s another 9/11 or a major war in the Middle-East involving a U.S. attack on Iran, I have no doubt that there will be, the day after or within days an equivalent of a Reichstag fire decree that will involve massive detentions in this country." - Daniel Ellsberg Author, Pentagon Papers I think the lesson is that this has been going on since the dawn of time, or the dawn of being kicked out of Eden anyway, when Cain and Able discovered farming.
My name is Michael Joseph McCarthy and I have been open about who I am since I first started posting on boards since the mid nineties. I am also a forest activist and was nearly killed when I was assaulted by a security guard trying to stop one of my many non-violent civil disobedient acts of protest I am infamous for locally. I am also an Army veteran of nine years, and I made it through the Special Forces Qualification course and went to GHW Bush's war in Panama. Try again. There is not a thing anonymous about me.
...as long as one of them was able. (sorry, that's a really old and bad joke)
"If there’s another 9/11 or a major war in the Middle-East involving a U.S. attack on Iran, I have no doubt that there will be, the day after or within days an equivalent of a Reichstag fire decree that will involve massive detentions in this country." - Daniel Ellsberg Author, Pentagon Papers Okay, so this board meets your qualification of fighting with every fiber?
No, this board is one of several I post on and serve as great practice for real life activism. I do not need them to do what I do. I also am the whistle blower who startd the ball rolling to end Nader's initiative petition campaign here in Oregon when the Republican paid for effort employed a company that hired junkies and street people who did rather heavy fraud to get the signatures they needed to get paid the amount of money they wanted to get. I don't need these boards, and if you want to research this, go ahead. My name was mentioned in the first Oregonian pieces on the failed Nader campaign, and if you asked the Register Guard in Eugene for articles about me or mentioning me you would get a thick file. I am well known locally, and it isn't for posting on these boards.
OKAY, so keeping Nader off the ballot in OR constitutes fighting with every fiber? You were duped before to fight for the King's Army...have you renounced your pension?
LOL, yup, it's been downhill ever since. Tis our fallen nature.
That's what worries me. The moral and just christians (about 1 out of every 20) have been fighting what I would call the biblical-industial (instead of a military-industrial) complex for centuries without much result. "Yes, I'm killing these savages for the Lord! I'm doing God's work by shooting these indian women and children in the back." "Yes , lads. Get over there to help out the Brits and French; and kill the evil Hun for the Glory of Jesus! Now let us pray for a victory over a foe that posed no threat to us." Religion of peace - There is no such thing, anywhere...ever. From the Jihadists in Iraq killing women who don't cover their face to Southern Baptists that remind their kids 10 times a day that if they dare enjoy life they'll burn in hell forever; It's all the same junk. And no, I'm not letting atheists off the hook either. Thinking you're God isn't exactly a good state of mind either. Someone please perfect inter-planitary travel so I can leave this mudhole behind.
"The more I see of life, the less I fear death" - Me.
I don't know of what pension you are speaking of. I do know my political efficacy has cost me opportunity and money, so I don't see your point. I do what I do and say what I say because I believe it and what I believe I will fight to defend. I also realize I am only human, and thus not always right and sometimes I do foolish things. So it goes. The only 'sin' I could see that would be intolerable to me I try to avoid is to take myself too seriously and to be intolerant of others' views and belief systems so much I would seek their eradication. You therefore are over the top in calling for Islam's destruction. If one major faith were to be destroyed or oppressed out of this country, that would only be the beginning. Because banning and oppressing things is a process that is addictive, there is never enough of it for those who want it, and it leads to a corruption of the spirit and soul that is unacceptable or remotely tolerable to endure.
When did I call for Islam's destruction? You over use and reliance of hyperbole neuters you to be any sort of effective spokesperson for liberty, regardless of what you think liberty is. Having served the King's Army, you should be off in the mountains of Tibet or doing acts of penance to make things right between you and Karma/God, not violating perfectly good property right laws or keeping Nader of the ballot.
Heh, think I've read ya enough to know your brand of intolerence involves wishing death and silence from those with whom you disagree. ;-D From LP:72. To: freedomcat (#51) Please, you have as much credibility on this board as BeAChooser. Why you bother pinging me is a sign of your testicular lacking. Hurry up and die already, freak. JohnGalt posted on 2006-07-13 18:20:33 ET Reply Trace
JohnGalt posted on 2006-06-01 19:05:42 ET Reply Trace 61. To: cribar (#60) Oh sorry, I should explain, baring false witness is a sin in the civilization I come from. That is great that you agree with a Commie Muslim about an American Rightwinger. I am not sure what point you are trying to prove when I am just calling you a wuss for not admitting you are some sort of Commie, albeit perhaps a moderate Commie instead of a radical as it appears you have a job. JohnGalt posted on 2006-06-01 19:50:14 ET Reply Trace I read you well, and I know you want Islam out of the U.S. totally and unconditionally. You want them contained, controlled and ... how does a 'he- man' like you always metaphorically put it? Oh yes, neutered, you want them neutered, and only pragmatism precludes you from fully and in an unabashed manner calling for Islam's utter annihilation.
Mike's being disingenuous. He supports the ADL, a group that's long supported the destruction of Islam through its backing of the "War on Terror". The WoT is little more than a war on Islam and Arabs.
"We can make a natural alliance through the ownership of the great industries of the world and through the sharing of their profits." -Lord Charles Beresford, in a 1903 speech to the (Anglo-American-Jewish) Pilgrims Society.
"Paranoia will destroy ya" to quote the Doors. Your deeply ingrained hatreds and paranoia had you convinced I was an ADL operative too. I support the ADL's good work, and disagree with them where I take exception to their policies and belief system. Thanks for sharing Blue, you are a continual source of entertainment and mirth for me, appreciate it. ;-D
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#4. To: JohnGalt (#3)
#5. To: Zoroaster (#4)
#6. To: JohnGalt (#5)
The invader? The West turned a secular republic into an Islamic Republic and with its idiot policy of encrouaging mob rule, the West has strengthened Islam amongst its worst lot. Add in the money the West offers when Muslim populations settle, work, and profit here, and its a bad situation all around.
#7. To: Zoroaster (#6)
#8. To: Zoroaster (#0)
Most of the enemies he imagines, he has created himself.
#9. To: JohnGalt (#7)
#10. To: Ferret Mike (#9)
(Edited)
#11. To: bluedogtxn (#8)
Most of the enemies he imagines, he has created himself.
#12. To: JohnGalt (#10)
The best scenario is keeping different folks seperate in their own region, practically make them stay, make them learn patria, let capital and trade flow freely. George Washington in his Farewell Address, the only version of a republic centered in DC that I can accept, understood the fear isn't just foreign influence, but the tendency for folks to see threats only on one side or the other, rather than from all sides.
#13. To: christine (#12)
#14. To: JohnGalt (#10)
the Constitution which I consider a usurption of the perfectly functioning Articles of Confederation
I'm honestly curious, I even glanced over it. (Color me stupid; for this morning.)
#15. To: JohnGalt (#10)
The best scenario is keeping different folks seperate in their own region, practically make them stay, make them learn patria, let capital and trade flow freely.
#16. To: christine, John Galt (#12)
#17. To: JohnGalt (#10)
#18. To: JohnGalt (#10)
"you suffer from the 'libertarian' disease"
#19. To: robin (#14)
#20. To: Ferret Mike (#18)
#21. To: JohnGalt (#19)
#22. To: Ferret Mike (#17)
#23. To: bluedogtxn (#15)
(Edited)
#24. To: JohnGalt (#22)
#25. To: robin (#21)
(Edited)
#26. To: Ferret Mike (#24)
#27. To: JohnGalt (#25)
In order to pull this off a central government was dreamed of that would inherit the debt of the states and the basis for our ruling elite was set in stone.
#28. To: robin (#27)
(Edited)
#29. To: JohnGalt (#28)
#30. To: robin (#29)
#31. To: JohnGalt (#26)
"That is lie. You post on an anon posting board and if you call that fighting with every fiber of your being, you are a simple chickenhawk."
#32. To: JohnGalt (#30)
I think the lesson is that this has been going on since the dawn of time, or the dawn of being kicked out of Eden anyway, when Cain and Able discovered farming.
#33. To: Ferret Mike (#31)
#34. To: JohnGalt (#33)
(Edited)
#35. To: Ferret Mike (#34)
#36. To: robin (#32)
#37. To: Zoroaster (#0)
Islam, like Christianity...
#38. To: JohnGalt (#35)
"OKAY, so keeping Nader off the ballot in OR constitutes fighting with every fiber? You were duped before to fight for the King's Army...have you renounced your pension?"
#39. To: Ferret Mike (#38)
#40. To: JohnGalt (#39)
When did I call for Islam's destruction?
#41. To: JohnGalt (#39)
58. To: cribar (#55) This is not a Muslim country. It's traditions are incompatible with the Islamic religion. You hate the traditions of your country by promoting how many nice Muslims you know. You are a radical Commie, who thanks to Jorge probably thinks he might possibly be on the Right because he doesn't like the deficit. How lame does it get?
#42. To: JohnGalt, Ferret Mike (#39)
#43. To: bluegrass (#42)
"Mike's being disingenuous. He supports the ADL, a group that's long supported the destruction of Islam through its backing of the "War on Terror". The WoT is little more than a war on Islam and Arabs."
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