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Religion
See other Religion Articles

Title: Bigotry and Ignorance of Islam
Source: Antiwar.com
URL Source: http://www.antiwar.com/reese/?articleid=9608
Published: Aug 29, 2006
Author: Charley Reese
Post Date: 2006-08-29 04:17:53 by Zoroaster
Keywords: None
Views: 1043
Comments: 70

August 29, 2006 Bigotry and Ignorance of Islam

by Charley Reese President George Bush's ignorance of the Middle East and its people is well-known. So also is his habit of parroting words and sentences given to him by other people. He hit a new low when he referred to "Islamic fascists."

No two more opposite concepts are to be found. Fascism glorifies the nation-state; Islam is transnational. Fascism demands slavish devotion to a national leader; Muslims are far too independent-minded to be slavish followers of anybody. Virtually all the people Saddam Hussein murdered were people trying to overthrow him. Fascism is militaristic. Islam is not.

Mr. Bush, who has dubbed himself the "war president," has made a pathetic and absurd effort to picture himself as Winston Churchill facing off against evil. He is no Churchill. Most of the enemies he imagines, he has created himself.

The West faces no threat from Islam. Islam is one of the fastest-growing religions in the world, but it really is a religion of peace. More importantly, it is a religion that concentrates on individual salvation. There is no Muslim pope, no College of Cardinals, no bishops, no priesthood. Any five Muslims anywhere in the world can start their own mosque. Imams are teachers and, like Protestant preachers or Jewish rabbis, can be fired by their congregation. The Shi'ite version is slightly more organized.

A fatwa is a statement issued by an imam, usually explanatory. It is similar to statements issued by the pope, with this important difference: No Muslim is bound by any fatwa. Muslims are free to pay attention to it or to ignore it.

Islam, like Christianity, is a universal religion that ignores nationality, race or color. To become a Muslim, one must profess belief in one God, acknowledge Muhammad as his prophet, recognize the Quran as the word of God, pray five times a day, provide for the poor and, if possible, make a trip to Mecca once in your lifetime. The God Muslims worship is the same God Christians and Jews worship.

To dispose of some of the slanderous misstatements being floated about, Islam forbids forced conversions. People would do well to read some history rather than rely on ignorant and malicious radio and TV talk-show hosts. The oldest Christian communities in the world are all in Muslim countries. There have always been Christian and Jewish communities in the Muslim world. Muslims are commanded to treat Christians and Jews as they would treat themselves. They revere Jesus as a prophet and highly respect the Virgin Mary. The disputes you see in the modern Middle East are not religious; they are all about secular matters, principally Israeli occupation of Arab lands.

The Arabs see Israel as the last European colonialist state imposed on them by the European powers. That's true, in fact.

Hamas and Islamic Jihad are concerned only with ending Israeli occupation of Palestine. Hezbollah is concerned with ending Israeli occupation of Lebanon. Al-Qaeda wants to overthrow the Persian Gulf governments and is at war with us because we are the principal backers and supporters of those governments. Al-Qaeda alone is most un-Islamic and has been so labeled by a majority of Muslims. It is a small group.

If you wish to understand Islam, turn off your TV and go to the library. Introduce yourself to some of America's 6 million Muslims. You'll find them to be very decent and patriotic people. There are some fanatics among Muslims, just as there are among Jews and Christians. Most of the New England states were originally populated by people fleeing Puritan rule in Massachusetts.

The way to combat the fanatics is to extend the hand of friendship to ordinary Muslims and to protest the slander and libel of Muslims and Islam, just as you should protest the slander and libel of Jews and other groups. Bigotry should have no place in our public dialogue, regardless of the target.

It's obvious that President Bush will never understand the world into which he was born, but most Americans have more open minds – except, of course, those who prefer to click their heels and salute when their Fuehrer of choice speaks.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 69.

#3. To: Zoroaster (#0)

Importing Islam is a threat to the West, granted not a big one in light of other more pressing issues. It's culture is alien, and having an alien network, be it to an abstract God or an abstract state in the Middle East is not a good thing. Reese is guilty of creating a dichotimy of black and white rather than operating in the gray.

Secondly, facsicm is a rightwing social-democrat response that protected the role of the Church, Money and the Military, which politically made them opposite their close cousins the Leftwing Social Democrat. (I for one see National Socialism as an entity that looks to overthrow or co-opt the Church, the military, industry for its own purpose.)

Thus Islamo-facism doesn't make any sense as Reese notes because the pillars that make up the classical Western state, a formal Church, Military, Industry simply aren't there.

JohnGalt  posted on  2006-08-29   7:34:13 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: JohnGalt (#3)

Religion is a creation of man, not God. Therefore, religions have their places in time and space. The West, as the invader of Islam's territory, is clearly the beast of prey.

Zoroaster  posted on  2006-08-29   7:59:18 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Zoroaster (#4)

The invader? The West turned a secular republic into an Islamic Republic and with its idiot policy of encrouaging mob rule, the West has strengthened Islam amongst its worst lot. Add in the money the West offers when Muslim populations settle, work, and profit here, and its a bad situation all around.

JohnGalt  posted on  2006-08-29   8:01:56 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: JohnGalt (#5)

The invader? The West turned a secular republic into an Islamic Republic and with its idiot policy of encrouaging mob rule, the West has strengthened Islam amongst its worst lot. Add in the money the West offers when Muslim populations settle, work, and profit here, and its a bad situation all around.

True enough, though Bush and his warmongering cabal are clearly the invaders of Iraq. It's a mess, and I'm not certain whether it's unintentional or designed. The Iraqi death toll since the latest invasion probably exceeds 100,000, add to this Gulf War I and the sanctions the total may be in the millions. Perhaps mass genocide was the plan all along. If the Muslim population goes unchecked, demographics will swallow Israel in the next generation, and Iran appears to be the next target.

Zoroaster  posted on  2006-08-29   8:27:25 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Zoroaster (#6)

Your post illustrates the danger of reverse pan-Arab thinking. Iraq was not a Muslim country, and has Scheurer said, the Bush Regime, or really, the agenda of the permanent government is Osama's greatest ally, which should be understood as Radical/militant Islam's greatest ally. You are correct in regards to stating Likudnick/Israeli rightwing strategic calculus regarding demographics, but in turn, you are legitmizing their position and their point that they are fighting for their lives.

The challenge is to stay out of this sort of diametric thinking, no?

I don't think the Middle East policy is anything more than its doable. Our morally bankrupt leaders don't think that deep.

JohnGalt  posted on  2006-08-29   9:17:05 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: JohnGalt (#7)

Whatever problems people of one religion have with with the people of another, they are going to have to be adults and work out their differences.

Islam is one of the world's major religions, it has over a billion believers. It is not going away. The U.S. Constitution allows freedom of religion and that is not going away.

I have many friends of all faiths including that of Islam, but Sunni and Shiite. I would stand with them to defend their right to their religion in this country every bit as much as I would defend Judaism, Christianity, or any other religion to exist unlynched and unmolested by intolerant ideologues who want to exacerbate tensions and try to take away their right of freedom to worship as they chose.

It doesn't get any simpler than that, you are going to have to get along, or do away with the keystone of our government, the U.S. Constitution.

And that is unacceptable.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2006-08-29   9:40:53 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Ferret Mike (#9) (Edited)

I have no love for the Constitution which I consider a usurption of the perfectly functioning Articles of Confederation, but it appears you suffer from the 'libertarian' disease, that tendency to deny the reality that if you put two different peoples, regardless of anything else, in close proximity they will compete for favors from the state which causes disharmony and angst. The State welcomes this, encourages this, and subsidizes this, as it justifies its existance as the final arbitrator.

The best scenario is keeping different folks seperate in their own region, practically make them stay, make them learn patria, let capital and trade flow freely. George Washington in his Farewell Address, the only version of a republic centered in DC that I can accept, understood the fear isn't just foreign influence, but the tendency for folks to see threats only on one side or the other, rather than from all sides.

Religous intolerance, tribal intolerance, these are facts of life, for better or worse, and its simply acknowledging a heresy, that the neocons are correct when they say we are a nation founded on a creed, as opposed to a historical nation.

JohnGalt  posted on  2006-08-29   10:05:51 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: JohnGalt (#10)

The Constitution is not going away, and neither is the inalterable and elegantly simple fact that hateful ideologues like you are not going to get they way when it comes to lynching any religion that strikes you as wrong.

There are hundreds of millions of Muslims who are peaceful and productive people who do not deserve to be victims of hateful and inaccurate rhetoric such as yours'.

Islam is a religion that needs to get along with other faiths, and other faiths need to get along with that.

That just is not going to change. Get used to it.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2006-08-29   10:23:30 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Ferret Mike (#17)

The Constitution is already gone. It was practically dead as soon as it was ratified by means of threats and bribes. The rest of your post has nothing to do with anything save in your little abstract One-Worldisms.

JohnGalt  posted on  2006-08-29   10:47:27 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: JohnGalt (#22)

The Articles of Confederation never worked. It created a situation where the several states were creating conflict and disunity and it made the Constitution inevitable.

Thanks for your interesting perspective. However you live in lala land. The U.S. Constitution will always be attacked by intolerant people who want the oppression and will of a majority -like a religion such as Christianity - to run over any minority faiths that annoy and irritate them.

The Constitution is alive and is not going away. It protects minorities - including religions - from the whims and caprice of the majority.

I am Wiccan, and I have experienced what it is like to be slandered and harassed by those who think "this is a Christian nation," and that anyone not going along with the tyranny of the majority should be set upon and assaulted and gotten rid of.

The U.S. Constitution prohibits the irrational lynching of Islam or any other faith. And if you don't like it, that is your problem. If people like you tried to change this, others and I would fight you with every fiber of our beings.

The Constitution is not going anywhere. It has it's graces and flaws like any other man made document, but it is an inspired piece of work, and it has stood the test of time, and will continue to do so for a long time.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2006-08-29   10:58:03 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Ferret Mike (#24)

That is lie. You post on an anon posting board and if you call that fighting with every fiber of your being, you are a simple chickenhawk.

JohnGalt  posted on  2006-08-29   11:01:06 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: JohnGalt (#26)

"That is lie. You post on an anon posting board and if you call that fighting with every fiber of your being, you are a simple chickenhawk."

My name is Michael Joseph McCarthy and I have been open about who I am since I first started posting on boards since the mid nineties.

I am also a forest activist and was nearly killed when I was assaulted by a security guard trying to stop one of my many non-violent civil disobedient acts of protest I am infamous for locally.

I am also an Army veteran of nine years, and I made it through the Special Forces Qualification course and went to GHW Bush's war in Panama.

Try again. There is not a thing anonymous about me.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2006-08-29   11:10:14 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Ferret Mike (#31)

Okay, so this board meets your qualification of fighting with every fiber?

JohnGalt  posted on  2006-08-29   11:19:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: JohnGalt (#33) (Edited)

No, this board is one of several I post on and serve as great practice for real life activism. I do not need them to do what I do.

I also am the whistle blower who startd the ball rolling to end Nader's initiative petition campaign here in Oregon when the Republican paid for effort employed a company that hired junkies and street people who did rather heavy fraud to get the signatures they needed to get paid the amount of money they wanted to get.

I don't need these boards, and if you want to research this, go ahead. My name was mentioned in the first Oregonian pieces on the failed Nader campaign, and if you asked the Register Guard in Eugene for articles about me or mentioning me you would get a thick file.

I am well known locally, and it isn't for posting on these boards.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2006-08-29   11:27:31 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Ferret Mike (#34)

OKAY, so keeping Nader off the ballot in OR constitutes fighting with every fiber? You were duped before to fight for the King's Army...have you renounced your pension?

JohnGalt  posted on  2006-08-29   11:46:15 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: JohnGalt (#35)

"OKAY, so keeping Nader off the ballot in OR constitutes fighting with every fiber? You were duped before to fight for the King's Army...have you renounced your pension?"

I don't know of what pension you are speaking of. I do know my political efficacy has cost me opportunity and money, so I don't see your point.

I do what I do and say what I say because I believe it and what I believe I will fight to defend.

I also realize I am only human, and thus not always right and sometimes I do foolish things. So it goes.

The only 'sin' I could see that would be intolerable to me I try to avoid is to take myself too seriously and to be intolerant of others' views and belief systems so much I would seek their eradication.

You therefore are over the top in calling for Islam's destruction. If one major faith were to be destroyed or oppressed out of this country, that would only be the beginning.

Because banning and oppressing things is a process that is addictive, there is never enough of it for those who want it, and it leads to a corruption of the spirit and soul that is unacceptable or remotely tolerable to endure.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2006-08-29   13:36:17 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Ferret Mike (#38)

When did I call for Islam's destruction?

You over use and reliance of hyperbole neuters you to be any sort of effective spokesperson for liberty, regardless of what you think liberty is. Having served the King's Army, you should be off in the mountains of Tibet or doing acts of penance to make things right between you and Karma/God, not violating perfectly good property right laws or keeping Nader of the ballot.

JohnGalt  posted on  2006-08-29   13:52:05 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: JohnGalt (#39)

58. To: cribar (#55) This is not a Muslim country. It's traditions are incompatible with the Islamic religion. You hate the traditions of your country by promoting how many nice Muslims you know. You are a radical Commie, who thanks to Jorge probably thinks he might possibly be on the Right because he doesn't like the deficit. How lame does it get?

JohnGalt posted on 2006-06-01 19:05:42 ET Reply Trace

61. To: cribar (#60) Oh sorry, I should explain, baring false witness is a sin in the civilization I come from. That is great that you agree with a Commie Muslim about an American Rightwinger. I am not sure what point you are trying to prove when I am just calling you a wuss for not admitting you are some sort of Commie, albeit perhaps a moderate Commie instead of a radical as it appears you have a job.

JohnGalt posted on 2006-06-01 19:50:14 ET Reply Trace

I read you well, and I know you want Islam out of the U.S. totally and unconditionally. You want them contained, controlled and ... how does a 'he- man' like you always metaphorically put it? Oh yes, neutered, you want them neutered, and only pragmatism precludes you from fully and in an unabashed manner calling for Islam's utter annihilation.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2006-08-29   14:20:13 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: Ferret Mike (#41)

That is patently absurd. I do want Islam out of the US, as you put it, that doesn't follow I want genocide.

Those replies without any context, a typical Commie trait FYI, were in regards to a poster who attempted to slander Justin Raimondo (have you heard of him) by posting an article from Stephen Schwartz, a Commie and a Muslim, who spews hate on http://Frontpagemag.com, a site that is probably close to your worldview.

JohnGalt  posted on  2006-08-29   14:33:12 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: JohnGalt (#46)

"That is patently absurd. I do want Islam out of the US, as you put it, that doesn't follow I want genocide."

Well I am glad to hear it. Because the U.S. is not an Islamic, Jewish or Christian nation. And all religions here add to our civilization.

Iraq in particular plays an interesting role in Western Civilization in that the land between the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers - 'the fertile Crescent' - is the 'cradle of Western Civilization.'

That Bush has invaded Mesopotamia and pretend that he in fact is not what he is, the barbarian at the gate is ironic and comedic, as well as highly tragic.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2006-08-29   14:47:55 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: Ferret Mike (#48)

Because the U.S. is not an Islamic, Jewish or Christian nation.

It once was an Anglo-Celtic nation with some Dutch and Germans, the historical colonies that is. You say all these religions add to our civilization...what civilization are you talking about? Britney Spears? Coke or Pepsi? Bud or Coors? Stripmalls? Rs and Ds?

What the hell are you talking about?

I will tell you what is ironic...a trained killer in the Kings Army in pretending to be an adovacte of peace by promoting One-Worldism.

JohnGalt  posted on  2006-08-29   14:56:33 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: JohnGalt (#49)

"It once was an Anglo-Celtic nation with some Dutch and Germans, the historical colonies that is. You say all these religions add to our civilization...what civilization are you talking about? Britney Spears? Coke or Pepsi? Bud or Coors? Stripmalls? Rs and Ds?"

You can never go home again, into that time and place where your idealistic benchmark - as you perceive it - lays. And it's not just the core premise of Thomas Wolf's classic "Look Homeward Angel" that shows us this is so.

This was also once home to many groupings of indigenous people who were kept separate by geographical divides and barriers that precluded the spread of a monolithic culture as that which emanated from Mesopotamia and spread far and wide to become what is called "Wester Civilization."

The fact that ours ultimately prevailed in this hemisphere is largely a result of advantages given us by geography and superior development in the art of war making, not because 'God is on our side.'

You allude to the symptoms of unchecked capital development, where people and consumers are made to serve the engine of capitalism, but you don't give me much anchor to your point. Not one that I can take and turn into a coherent response to your vague and generalistic concerns about the shape and direction of our culture.

What the hell are any of us in here talking about? Usually it is about the same thing; concerns about tyranny and greed, wrongs and outrages, the need for government that serves the will and needs of the people.

We often do not concur on solutions, not even in our definitions of things. But it is a good thing we engage in discourse about these things.

Not that we will ever solve everything wrong with today's world, but it at least helps to give hope, especially when it aids and abets the emergence of a solution to part of what ails us.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2006-08-29   15:21:57 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: Ferret Mike (#50)

You can never go home again, into that time and place where your idealistic benchmark - as you perceive it - lays.

Yet you support Israel.

Hilarious.

bluegrass  posted on  2006-08-29   15:42:43 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: bluegrass (#53) (Edited)

I support that country's right to exist. I do not support all of the policies and actions taken by them currently over the years.

You on the other hand salivate like Pavlov's dogs when the country is mentioned. Nothing about it is good, and you feel great about your black and white outlook on things.

You are welcome to that, because I will continue to view the world in all it's various shades of gray and take Israel to task for the bad things it does, and support them when they get it right for a change. ;-)

In any event, came across this at LP, perhaps you would like to answer Goldi's questions. I was thinking of threading it, but as this topic is where you generally live, I will leave it to you to answer her or not, and present it in whatever manner you want to.

In any event, I found this post by her to be highly amusing:

"IS THIS TRUE???

Did Clinton force

Israel to let Mohammed Atta go free? Terrorist pilot Mohammed Atta blew up a bus in Israel in 1986. The Israelis captured, tried and imprisoned him. As part of the Oslo agreement with the Palestinians in 1993, Israel had to agree to release so-called "political prisoners". However, the Israelis would not release any with blood on their hands. The American President at the time, Bill Clinton, and his Secretary of State, Warren Christopher, "insisted" that all prisoners be released. Thus Mohammed Atta was freed and eventually thanked the US by flying an airplane into Tower One of the World Trade Center. This was reported by many of the American TV networks at the time that the terrorists were first identified. It was censored in the US from all later reports. Why shouldn't Americans know the real truth?"

http://libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi? ArtNum=156996&Disp=0

Ferret Mike  posted on  2006-08-29   15:49:19 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: All, bluedogtxn, aristeides, leveller, JohnGalt, BrianS (#54)

ping to my last post with Goldi's question. It is something recent departees from that venue might find interesting too.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2006-08-29   15:53:54 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: Ferret Mike (#55)

ping to my last post with Goldi's question. It is something recent departees from that venue might find interesting too.

Well, she starts with "IS THIS TRUE?", and I don't know. Because it comes from her, and given her bias, I'd have to say probably not. But suppose it is? Suppose one of the 9-11 hijackers was released by Israel at the insistence of Clinton. There were 20 others, and most of them undoubtedly had "proven" themselves prior to being selected for their martyrdom assignment.

That's the way things go, sometimes. I have a problem with Israel in several areas. I don't like that they have a powerful lobby that affects our internal politics. I don't like that we pay them money. I don't like that they use weapons we paid for to destroy infrastructure that we paid for and are then tasked to pay to replace. They make awful damn free with our money. I don't like that they sit on 200 nukes and supposedly the 4th most powerful military in the world and play victim. I don't like the way they targeted civilians in Lebanon (and for you Israelobots, let's don't fucking play pretend, huh?). I don't like the way our foreign policy cowtows to them.

Let me put it plain. I live in Lubbock, Texas, a 200,000 population red city in the red, red heart of a red state. I'm a blue liberal. I'd rather see the entire nation of Israel annihilated than see red Republican Lubbock, with a hundredth of the population, annihilated. Down the road there's a town called Crosbyton, population 12,000 plus or minus. They don't produce anything in abundance except ignorance. I'd rather lose Israel than lose Crosbyton. Between here and Crosbyton is Ralls, population 600 give or take. I'd rather lose Israel than Ralls.

Why? Because I'm an American. The people in Lubbock, Crosbyton and Ralls are Americans. Does Israel have a "right" to exist? Sure, just like anybody else. Do they have a greater right to exist than anyone else? Absolutely not. Do I favor Americans over Israelis? I sure do.

And I'm sick and tired of them fucking up our country. No more aid to Israel, no more wars on their behalf, no more entangling alliance. It's time to cut the strings and let them fly on their own. If they make it, great. If they don't, them's the breaks.

bluedogtxn  posted on  2006-08-29   16:14:18 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: bluedogtxn (#63)

It's time to cut the strings and let them fly on their own. If they make it, great. If they don't, them's the breaks.

100% agreement. That our resident ADL symp finds this funny is telling.

bluegrass  posted on  2006-08-29   16:32:16 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: bluegrass (#67)

100% agreement. That our resident ADL symp finds this funny is telling.

Well, like ferret, I really don't have much of a problem with the ADL until recently. They have done good things in terms of pointing out bigotry against others besides Jews, too. Lately they've taken to calling any criticism of Israel "anti-Semitism", which I find offensive.

He may have thought my post was sarcastic, as I have a tendency to do that (take an extreme position I disagree with to a ridiculous extreme). What may have not dawned on him was that I'm not kidding.

Israel is a great country. And it ain't worth the blood of a single American.

bluedogtxn  posted on  2006-08-29   16:40:17 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: bluedogtxn (#68)

They have done good things in terms of pointing out bigotry against others besides Jews, too.

The ADL exists to cause anti-semitism and bigotry. The goals of Zionism can't be realized until Jews are pushed into Israel by feeling uncomfortable in other countries. The ADL is following the plan of Herzl to a T.

I've done a lot of research into the ADL's unvarnished history as well as the history of its parent group, B'nai B'rith. If you like, I'll gladly point you in the direction of my research, some of which is posted on this board.

bluegrass  posted on  2006-08-29   16:44:37 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


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