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Title: Pop Goes the Bubble (housing market)
Source: Lew Rockwell
URL Source: [None]
Published: Aug 30, 2006
Author: Bill Bonner
Post Date: 2006-08-30 10:30:09 by bluedogtxn
Keywords: None
Views: 937
Comments: 137

by Bill Bonner

"What's that Hissing Sound?" headlines a piece in the Economist:

"The boom has lifted the (U.S.) economy in three ways: it has boosted residential construction: it has made people feel wealthier and so encouraged them to spend more; and it has allowed homeowners to use their property as a gigantic cash machine, taking out money by borrowing against their capital gains. Merrill Lynch estimates that the three together accounted for more than half of America's total GDP growth since last year.

"Counting construction, finance, and estate agency, the housing boom has been responsible for one-third of all the jobs created since 2001. If house-price rises level off, GDP growth could dip below 2% in 2007. If prices fall, expect a steeper slowdown." Since it is now in the Economist, it's official – housing is in trouble. But will prices actually go down?

We have a report directly from one of the hottest markets in the country, south Florida:

"We just missed it. The time to sell was a year ago. A guy came along and offered us $500,000 for that place we bought. We paid $450,000 for it two years ago. Our timing couldn't have been worse. We expected to tear down the house and build a new one...and we were sure we'd make a couple hundred thousand in profit. Minimum. But you warned us. And we didn't listen. And then, we got that offer for $500,000 and turned it down. We thought we could get much more. But that was then and this is now...I'd be happy to get back what we have in it. But we can't even get anyone to look at it."

Paul Kasriel says it's the worst supply/demand equation of residential real estate in 34 years. Sales in July were down more than a fifth. Inventories were up more than a fifth. And a lot of real estate investors are now going to the liquor store to get another fifth. They wish they could turn the clock back a few months and unload properties at last year's prices.

But maybe the situation is not as bad as it looks. The New York Times reported the news last week that real estate downturns in England and Australia have been surprisingly mild. And now, Business Week has a big story entitled "Housing: The Roof Won't Collapse On The U.S. Economy."

According to Business Week, housing can go a little soft without damaging the economy too severely. That view has become the mainstream dream. What do we know; maybe it will turn out to be true. As our friend John Mauldin points out, we usually muddle through. Usually, tomorrow is like today. Usually, nothing too bad or too good...happens. Usually, things are average, ordinary, common, and regular.

But wait, there is nothing ordinary about this housing bubble. In the space of less than 10 years, according to Robert Shiller's index, the real value of residential property doubled. And householders doubled up their debt, too. Neither are things that happen every day; in fact, they've never happened before!

We are not looking into a crystal ball here. We are just putting two and two together. If things are usually usual, then when they are unusually unusual, they are probably more likely to become usual again, rather than become more unusually unusual. That seems so obvious to us, we won't bother to explain it.

And when housing prices become usual, then the poor sap who has bet his house on something extraordinary is likely to be in a tight spot. And since the entire U.S. economy, and by extension the entire world economy, depends on him being able to continue to spend, then they're all in a tight spot.

Yes, the whole world economy now depends on a man who spends money he doesn't have – money of no sure value – on what he surely can't afford, and which he probably doesn't need anyway. He can only do so as long as his house rises in price. And now, that the rise in housing prices has come to an end. What next?

Everyone has come to expect slowing real estate gains. The boom is over; everyone seems to think so. So, where is the surprise? Where's the money to be made...or lost?

Again, we don't know. But in August 1982, Business Week famously predicted that the equity market was finished. Now, in August 2006, BW tells us not to worry: the roof will not collapse. BW might not be right, but it might be consistent; the roof might blow up.

August 30, 2006

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#60. To: Jethro Tull (#55)

"In my way of thinking, they at least have the balls to declare war upon Lebanon."

Come off it Buck, that rubber stamping of a war born of insane notions from Israeli right wingers and the Bush Administration is not remotely the same thing as a declaration of war Congress has to pass.

What the Israelis did got the results only badly thought out notions of war generate. There was no excuse for this invasion.

+ + =

Ferret Mike  posted on  2006-08-31   9:38:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: Badeye After Five (#58)

So what's the problem? My business was doing good - well at least in cyber space it was - and so I gave myself a Hummer. Most people arn't capable of giving themselves a Hummer. Does this make you jealous?

Hell yes. I've never had the kind of ... flexibility... needed to give myself a Hummer. I've always relied on the kindness of strangers.

the law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal bread.

bluedogtxn  posted on  2006-08-31   9:44:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: Badeye After Five (#58)

Badeye, i assume you're good at hummers? If so, perhaps it could be a part time gig?

Jethro Tull  posted on  2006-08-31   9:49:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: bluedogtxn (#59)

nice post, bluedog. thanks.

"Freedom4um" -- The Forum for Real Americans and where America and Americans are always First!

christine  posted on  2006-08-31   10:21:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: christine (#63)

nice post, bluedog. thanks.

de nada, es la verdad, solamente.

the law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal bread.

bluedogtxn  posted on  2006-08-31   10:49:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: buckeroo (#54)

Goldi, the IsraelFirster, flips off the UN then and AmericaFirsters now.

Nostalgia  posted on  2006-08-31   11:33:08 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#66. To: bluedogtxn (#59)

Unlike some on this site, I don't hate Jews or think there is a "Jewish conspiracy" to take over the world.

I don't know anyone on this site who hates Jews.

Most posters here would like to discuss Israel's and in particular the Zionists' intentions, in an open way.

Because of MSM's lopsided broadcasts on anything remotely connected to Israel and/or Jewish organizations, what you see is an attempt to counter-balance that skewed viewpoint.

Most posters here believe American interests should be considered first, and see ZioNazis running our foreign policy in deference to Israeli interests. And they are not even doing a good job of it for Israel or US.

That many foreign govts may also have a disproportionate number of Zionists should be examined, if it is true.

If this were any other nation, we would have no problems discussing that nation's agenda, policies, people or religion.

"If there’s another 9/11 or a major war in the Middle-East involving a U.S. attack on Iran, I have no doubt that there will be, the day after or within days an equivalent of a Reichstag fire decree that will involve massive detentions in this country."

- Daniel Ellsberg Author, Pentagon Papers

robin  posted on  2006-08-31   11:34:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: robin (#66)

Most posters here believe American interests should be considered first, and see ZioNazis running our foreign policy in deference to Israeli interests. And they are not even doing a good job of it for Israel or US.

That's dead on truth, there. But there seems to be a tendence among some to "see a jew behind every bush"...

Israel is doing what any smaller, dependent parasite nation would do to its host. It digs in deeper and sucks as much blood as it can, because it never knows when it'll be plucked out and discarded.

the law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal bread.

bluedogtxn  posted on  2006-08-31   11:42:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: bluedogtxn (#67)

We don't know what Israel and the ZioNazis are up to, completely. But that is what we are trying to determine here, since no MSM investigative journalist will.

Carl Cameron had an Israeli spy special that never aired anywhere but on the internet. Have you seen it?

"If there’s another 9/11 or a major war in the Middle-East involving a U.S. attack on Iran, I have no doubt that there will be, the day after or within days an equivalent of a Reichstag fire decree that will involve massive detentions in this country."

- Daniel Ellsberg Author, Pentagon Papers

robin  posted on  2006-08-31   11:44:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: robin (#68)

Carl Cameron had an Israeli spy special that never aired anywhere but on the internet. Have you seen it?

Nope. I'd like to, though.

the law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal bread.

bluedogtxn  posted on  2006-08-31   11:46:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: Nostalgia (#65)

Is that really Goldi, or a guy in drag making fun of her?

the law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal bread.

bluedogtxn  posted on  2006-08-31   11:47:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#71. To: bluedogtxn (#69)

As I recall, Justin Raimondo's book Terror Enigma: 9/11 And the Israeli Connection summarizes Cameron's Fox News series pretty well.

Katrina was America's Chernobyl.

aristeides  posted on  2006-08-31   11:48:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#72. To: bluedogtxn (#69)

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/spyring.html

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/israeli_spyring_fox.html

"If there’s another 9/11 or a major war in the Middle-East involving a U.S. attack on Iran, I have no doubt that there will be, the day after or within days an equivalent of a Reichstag fire decree that will involve massive detentions in this country."

- Daniel Ellsberg Author, Pentagon Papers

robin  posted on  2006-08-31   12:04:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: Nostalgia (#65)

that's the picture that Goldi had on her homepage at FR. in my estimation, she's a very different person now than she was then. i'm basing my observation on her flipflops of many issues and alliegiances from when she first partnered with Neil on LP to now. jmo.

christine  posted on  2006-08-31   12:53:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: Nostalgia, Buckeroo (#65)

Buckeroo. You're kidding, right? This is the genius forum owner who is saving America? Please explain yourself, forthwith.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2006-08-31   17:50:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#75. To: christine (#73)

that's the picture that Goldi had on her homepage at FR. in my estimation, she's a very different person now than she was then.

yes, i heard that she was older and fatter and had a more hard looking face. also just generallly less classy than she is in that picture. but i am only going on what people tell me.

Morgana le Fay  posted on  2006-08-31   18:02:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#76. To: bluedogtxn (#70)

Is that really Goldi, or a guy in drag making fun of her?

Hmmm... face looks familiar

"But I know now that there is not a chance in hell of America becoming humane and reasonable. Because power corrupts us, and absolute power corrupts us absolutely. Human beings are chimpanzees who get crazy drunk on power. By saying that our leaders are power-drunk chimpanzees, am I in danger of wrecking the morale of our soldiers fighting and dying in the Middle East? Their morale, like so many lifeless bodies, is already shot to pieces. They are being treated, as I never was, like toys a rich kid got for Christmas." -- Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. (1922- ) Author

jessejane  posted on  2006-08-31   19:27:00 ET  (2 images) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#77. To: jessejane (#76)

LMAO! My G-d [sic], the resemblance is uncanny!

Nostalgia  posted on  2006-08-31   19:34:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#78. To: Nostalgia (#77)

LMAO! My G-d [sic], the resemblance is uncanny!

I *thought* that face looked familiar. ;)

"But I know now that there is not a chance in hell of America becoming humane and reasonable. Because power corrupts us, and absolute power corrupts us absolutely. Human beings are chimpanzees who get crazy drunk on power. By saying that our leaders are power-drunk chimpanzees, am I in danger of wrecking the morale of our soldiers fighting and dying in the Middle East? Their morale, like so many lifeless bodies, is already shot to pieces. They are being treated, as I never was, like toys a rich kid got for Christmas." -- Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. (1922- ) Author

jessejane  posted on  2006-08-31   19:38:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#79. To: jessejane (#76)

Sharon told Bush he was unwilling to attack Iran. I don't think he would have launched the recent attack on Lebanon.

Katrina was America's Chernobyl.

aristeides  posted on  2006-08-31   19:40:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#80. To: aristeides (#79)

Sharon told Bush he was unwilling to attack Iran. I don't think he would have launched the recent attack on Lebanon.

Hard to say. Was doing a little reading here: htt p://www.electronicintifada.net/forreference/keyfigures/sharon.html

I am not familiar with the site at all, but presume the 'facts' they state can be verified. I apologize for the length of the post to come, but it is very informative, and chilling.

Noting comments re: Sharon;

"In 1953, he founded and led the "101" special commando unit which carried out retaliatory operations.[1]

[1] The Electronic Intifada notes: As commander of the notorious Unit 101, Sharon led attacks on Palestinian villages in which women and children were killed.

The massacre in the West Bank village of Qibya, on October 14, 1953, was perhaps the most notorious. His troops blew up 45 houses and 69 Palestinian civilians -- about half of them women and children -- were killed.

The U.S. Department of State issued a statement on 18 October 1953, expressing its "deepest sympathy for the families of those who lost their lives" in the Qibya attack as well as the conviction that those responsible "should be brought to account and that effective measures should be taken to prevent such incidents in the future." (Department of State Bulletin, Oct. 26, 1953, p. 552). ====

[4] The Electronic Intifada notes: As minister of defense in 1982, Sharon orchestrated Israel's invasion of Lebanon, a military operation that killed tens of thousands of civilians as Israeli forces sought to destroy the Palestine Liberation Organisation's infrastructure in the region. According to the statistics published in the Third World Quarterly (Volume 6, Issue 4, October 1984, pp. 934-949), over 29,500 Palestinians and Lebanese were either killed or wounded from 4 July 1982 through to 15 August 1982, 40 percent were children. Israel's stated motive for its "Operation Peace for Galilee" invasion of Lebanon was to bring peace to frontline Israeli communities in Northern Galilee. In fact, the disastrous events of 1982-85 were the very catalysts of the Hizbullah Shi'a resistance movement in South Lebanon. Previous to Israel's military interventionism in the early 1980s, the Shi'a of south Lebanon had not professed any aggression or hostility towards the Israelis.

Ariel Sharon is responsible for the massacre of Palestinian and Lebanese civilians at the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps, on the southern outskirts of Beirut. The slaughter in the two contiguous camps at Sabra and Shatila took place from the evening of September 16, 1982 until the morning of September 18, 1982, in an area under the control of the Israeli armed forces. The perpetrators were members of the Phalange (Kata'eb, in Arabic) militia, the Lebanese force that was armed by and closely allied with Israel since the onset of Lebanon's civil war in 1975. Prior to the massacre, Sharon had meetings with the Phalange forces.

For over 60 hours -- aided by an Israeli siege around the camps and guided by the light of Israeli flares -- forces belonging to the Israeli-allied Phalangist militia went through the camps, killing Palestinian and Lebanese civilians. Some were lined up against walls and mown down by machine-gun fire. Others were left in heaps on the floors of their homes or on the streets of the camps. Children were shot dead, women and girls were raped and mutilated and men were disembowelled prior to being executed.

The precise number of victims of the massacre may never be exactly determined. The International Committee of the Red Cross counted 1,500 at the time of the massacre but by September 22 this count had risen to 2,400. On the following day 350 bodies were uncovered so that the total then ascertained had reached 2,750. Israeli military intelligence estimated that 700 to 800 were killed.

UN Resolution UNSC 521 (1982) of 19 September 1982 offered uneqivocal condemnation of the Sabra and Shatila Massacre, although it avoided naming any perpetrators at this early stage.

The question of direct Israeli involvement in the massacre is one that has never been fully resolved. However -- despite denials -- it is not credible that Israeli troops surrounding the two camps were unaware of what was going on inside: From 5-5.30 am low level flights of Israeli planes over Sabra and Shatila took place, after which shelling promptly commenced." (Source: The New York Times, 16 September 1982, quoting Dr. Witsoe, Gaza hospital.)

"The Israelis established observation posts on top of multi-storey buildings in the north-west quadrant of the Kuwaiti Embassy. From these posts, the naked eye has a clear view of several sections of the camps, including those parts of Shatila where piles of bodies were found." (Source: Newsweek, 4 October 1982, Ray Wilkinson; The Guardian, 20 September 1982; and The New York Times, 26 September 1982.)

"Throughout the night flares lit up the sky. They were fired at the rate of two a minute, as reported by an Israeli soldier from a mortar unit." (Source: The Jerusalem Post, 21 September 1982.) [snip]

"But I know now that there is not a chance in hell of America becoming humane and reasonable. Because power corrupts us, and absolute power corrupts us absolutely. Human beings are chimpanzees who get crazy drunk on power. By saying that our leaders are power-drunk chimpanzees, am I in danger of wrecking the morale of our soldiers fighting and dying in the Middle East? Their morale, like so many lifeless bodies, is already shot to pieces. They are being treated, as I never was, like toys a rich kid got for Christmas." -- Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. (1922- ) Author

jessejane  posted on  2006-08-31   19:52:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#81. To: buckeroo, Jethro Tull (#29)

In a way Neil McIver can thank me for the bucks Goldi gave him for helping to move the site into new hardware that was finally co-located for a real Internet site instead of a broomcloset in GL's house.

I was not involved in that move and have received no money at all from Goldi/LP since resigning. LP does have a sysadmin that helps with stuff, but it's not me.

Pinguinite.com

Neil McIver  posted on  2006-09-01   2:48:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#82. To: Jethro Tull (#55)

You defend her by supporting her. It's simple once you think it thru...

No I don't. You are merely attempting to fondle yourself in public over the matter by pushing your own point. I don't defend her or anyone but myself. Way up the thread, I indicated that what you see is my perspective; that's all it is.

It is you, JT attempting to make an issue out of GL. You have performed this offensive thrust all along.

Nice poste here, Bucky:

6. To: beyond the sea (#3)

Jews getting a little crazy now over there.

In my way of thinking, they at least have the balls to declare war upon Lebanon. Here in the US .... our Congress has no balls ... they gave the power to the President ... whom again, has no balls.

buckeroo posted on 2006-07-15 12:31:02 ET Reply Trace

***

So the Jews have balls to target civilians?

The intent of the post was all about how America doesn't declare war anywhere anymore. At least Israel strikes back .... which I think is admirable all by itself. And they publicly declare their aversion in the media, formally.

I don't think the issue of civilians were the point HOWEVER I can only say that Hezbollah doesn't play by a military standard to avoid civilians. To a large degree they brought the conflict into their own homes and mosques and schools and hospitals as they hide behind civilians while attempting to murder other civilians, themselves, their frequent launches of mere bottle rockets murdered about 20 Israeli civilians.

Lying hypocrite.

Naw. You have no real basis to say that. You have already admitted you are weak and can not argue a point with the exception of outright emotional appeal.

buckeroo  posted on  2006-09-02   0:08:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#83. To: Jethro Tull (#56)

Psst....if you didn't fill her pockets with cash you'd be homeless. She's a low rent, homeless looking Zionist, whose ass you love to kiss.

I think I do pretty well considering my balance sheet on a year to year basis shows some serious earnings on my part; I am far from any need of the state to help me and don't foresee the issue at all; so, there is no need for you to help me or criticise my financial statements, assets, liabilites, credits or debits. As for GL, I have no idea about her capabilities, incomes and so forth ... in fact, its not necessary for me to know that information on the Internet; my posting on LP is not a managed business arrangement; I post there ( again ) because of the wide audience that views the website.

I kiss no ones ass, pal. No ones. I think you should reconsider your own perspective and realize that you have an axe to grind with GL, not me. Why you have the feeling I am GL's spokesman is beyond my comprehension .... I speak for nobody on my post's ... except for myself.

buckeroo  posted on  2006-09-02   0:27:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#84. To: bluedogtxn (#59)

I suppose you didn't read my post#51 on this thread. And I agree with you about the way GL has banned posters on LP. Although I can't say anyone has fought harder against these bans than my self, I can in all honesty say that I attempted to strenuously post my aversion about the not only the way it was handled by why it was performed.

Take your time and research my posts on LP, if you are interested. I have never received a word about my input from GL. I sense I am on her BOZO list.

buckeroo  posted on  2006-09-02   0:36:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#85. To: robin (#66)

I don't know anyone on this site who hates Jews.

ping, robin.

My family takes care of a jew lady up the street from us, a widower - picking up her mail, shoveling snow for her.

She is as distressed by the ME situation, as much as I am.

When there is a problem, she calls us.

tom007  posted on  2006-09-02   0:42:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#86. To: Ferret Mike (#60)

I don't think there would have been any invasion if the US government and the UN had not created a "state" to begin with. It was wrong back in 1947. And the world is seeing the price of continuous warfare based upon the concept of "peace."

But, everyone has a right to defend themselves. What the US needs to do is butt out of international politics and attend to "we the people" here at home. The world wide shenanigans for the past 50 years have driven up a terrible price of about $9Tr and this needs to be paid down before our own government creates a slave state. we are nearly a slave state already because we let the US government snoop around the world with an unlimited budget. '

buckeroo  posted on  2006-09-02   0:46:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#87. To: Nostalgia (#65)

Thats funny. The picture offers an appearance as Connie Hair, AKA "CAL" whom I have no affinity for.

buckeroo  posted on  2006-09-02   0:48:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#88. To: tom007 (#85) (Edited)

My family takes care of a jew lady up the street from us, a widower - picking up her mail, shoveling snow for her.

She is as distressed by the ME situation, as much as I am.

When there is a problem, she calls us.

It was a Jewish co-worker who told me what Michael Savage said on the radio one morning, about eradicating all arabs. He was in shock and dismay as he shared it with me.

And a previous Jewish co-worker told me that we, the US, do NOT belong in the Middle-East, at all. He was also into Mises economic theory.

Both of these men were my immediate, technical supervisors. They hired me, we respected each other and we talked politics. They are family men, who attend synogogue every Saturday and one left work early Fridays to observe Sabbath properly.

"If there’s another 9/11 or a major war in the Middle-East involving a U.S. attack on Iran, I have no doubt that there will be, the day after or within days an equivalent of a Reichstag fire decree that will involve massive detentions in this country."

- Daniel Ellsberg Author, Pentagon Papers

robin  posted on  2006-09-02   0:51:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#89. To: Jethro Tull (#74)

Buckeroo. You're kidding, right? This is the genius forum owner who is saving America? Please explain yourself, forthwith.

Beats me JT. How do you know that picture is GL? Because some poster says so? Man, you are gullible. Where is your critical mind anymore? Oh, I forgot .... are you still eating the piles of stacked Spam you bought back in 1999 because of Y2K?

buckeroo  posted on  2006-09-02   0:51:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#90. To: buckeroo (#86)

I don't think there would have been any invasion if the US government and the UN had not created a "state" to begin with. It was wrong back in 1947.

Hear, hear!!

That bastard creation by the United Nation's, the same UN that oh so many zionistas abhor.

The UN created this 'monster', Godspeed that they see it's demise".

Brian S  posted on  2006-09-02   0:56:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#91. To: Neil McIver (#81)

I was not involved in that move and have received no money at all from Goldi/LP since resigning. LP does have a sysadmin that helps with stuff, but it's not me.

I remembered a post wherein GL was going to hire you for bringing up the software at the co-location site. This was during one of her fundraisers. If you didn't participate, its probably because she used the bucks for the hardware ... as you know, she doesn't have the largest budget to work with.

And, I give GL credit for improving the site as much as she can stretch what few bucks she receives. She has performed well, with not much more than a shoestring budget.

buckeroo  posted on  2006-09-02   0:58:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#92. To: Brian S (#90)

Today, the problem is global governance. The concept of creating a nation state has lead to the emergence of destroying any state in the world. And the US government is the kingpin of influence.

buckeroo  posted on  2006-09-02   1:01:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#93. To: buckeroo (#86)

The invasion of Lebanon was brutal and mindless stupidity. SO is the Apartheid wall and their attitude about not sharing political power with Palestinians.

I support their right to exist, but if they can't be strong enough to learn how to live with others who live there, bullying is not something to tolerate.

Lebanon used to be the banking center for the Middle East and the infrastructure those idiots destroyed in their little temper tantrum of a war is only insult to injury to an area that had already too long been a war zone.

It keeps that country from recovering, and deepens and strengthens the hatred and loathing in that area,

What Israel did was not a sign of strength, it was hyena weak. They have one problem we share in this country, the need to get right wingers and Neo Cons out of government. And as far as the expense of Israels' Lebanon adventure, they started it, the idiots can pay for their blood games involving state sanctioned terrorism.

That sort will be the death of both our countries. I have had it with war mongers and corporate fascism. We need a country that puts people before profit, and every single damn nuclear weapon in existence needs to be dismantled, unconditionally.

The war making must be stopped too, and Bush and Cheney both need to be hauled off to the Hague for their war crimes in starting and conducting these illegal and immoral wars of theirs in Afghanistan and Iraq. They deserve to be prosecuted for conducting the false flag operations on 9 11, but I would be happy at any justice being served with them at this point.

+ + =

Ferret Mike  posted on  2006-09-02   1:02:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#94. To: Ferret Mike (#93)

I have had it with war mongers and corporate fascism. We need a country that puts people before profit, and every single damn nuclear weapon in existence needs to be dismantled, unconditionally.

Uh-huh, and after that happens we can all go here:

Oh the buzzin' of the bees

In the cigarette trees

Near the soda water fountain

At the lemonade springs

Where the bluebird sings

On the big rock candy mountain

There's a lake of gin

We can both jump in

And the handouts grow on bushes

In the new-mown hay

We can sleep all day

And the bars all have free lunches

Where the mail train stops

And there ain't no cops

And the folks are tender-hearted

Where you never change your socks

And you never throw rocks

And your hair is never parted

SmokinOPs  posted on  2006-09-02   1:10:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#95. To: Ferret Mike (#93)

I support their right to exist, but if they can't be strong enough to learn how to live with others who live there, bullying is not something to tolerate.

The whole problem is about the territories that Israel controls with armed military using fully automatic machine guns, helicopters, jets and tanks. The Israelis actually fuel enmity in the region. I think we all know that.

That's why Hamas exists. And that's why Hezbollah exists as a political force against the existence of Israel. Not many people realize the point. I agree with you 100%.

buckeroo  posted on  2006-09-02   1:13:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#96. To: SmokinOPs (#94)

We have never built weapons that have not eventually been used. After Nukes are used their will be a profound sentiment mirroring mine, not yours'.

You are blind to the price, and that it would be far wiser to get rid of them now then after hundreds of millions die and are maimed. So it goes with your brand of mirthful myopia and the celebration of the wet dreams of pointless war making.

+ + =

Ferret Mike  posted on  2006-09-02   1:17:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#97. To: Ferret Mike (#96)

We have never built weapons that have not eventually been used. After Nukes are used their will be a profound sentiment mirroring mine, not yours'.

You operate under the assumption that the technology is only a weapon to be used to destroy and can serve no purpose as a tool. And they already have been used.

And my derision was aimed at your simplistic "we need to do this, this and this and all will be well". It's as hubristic as the "democracy spreading" crap spewed from the Administration.

SmokinOPs  posted on  2006-09-02   1:50:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#98. To: buckeroo (#89)

How do you know that picture is GL?

Why don't you ask her the next time you send her a C-note for the upkeep of her pro-war, Israel-First forum.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2006-09-02   7:37:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#99. To: Jethro Tull (#98)

I have no reason to believe that picture is about her anymore than I believe your real name is Jethro Tull.

buckeroo  posted on  2006-09-02   9:53:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#100. To: buckeroo (#89)

How do you know that picture is GL? Because some poster says so?

It is her, buckeroo. Goldi had that photo on her homepage at FR. There are others of her from that trip floating around the net as well.

Nostalgia  posted on  2006-09-02   11:25:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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