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Title: What Hit The Pentagon (Part 2)
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URL Source: http://freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=34382&Disp=0
Published: Sep 10, 2006
Author: Confusion
Post Date: 2006-09-10 06:01:09 by Kamala
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Keywords: 911, Contradictions, Questions
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Comments: 33
Title: What Hit the Pentagon? Source: 911review URL Source: http://www.911review.com/attack/pentagon/hypothesis.html Published: Sep 9, 2006 Author: 911 Review Post Date: 2006-09-09 07:05:37 by Kamala Ping List: *9-11* Keywords: 911 Views: 593 Comments: 135 What Hit the Pentagon? Where the Pentagon was struck on 9/11/01 is indisputable and is strong circumstantial evidence that the attack was an inside job.
Poster Comment: Now does everyone see why I and alot of others steer clear of the pentagon. I've got some other bits of articles I'm going to post here. Like I've stated, I lean toward an airliner hitting the pentagon. Also the black boxes found dispute the 530mph speed, I've read 345mph was the speed. Mark
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Missing Bodies Questions About the Remains of Commandeered Flight Victims Given the lack of public information about the four flights involved in the September 11th attack, the silence of air controllers, the alleged unreadability of the flight data and voice data black boxes, and oddities of the phone calls; reports about the identification of the victims' bodies are perhaps the most substantial evidence of what became of the flights. The fate of Flight 93 victims is perhaps the least mysterious, although their identification took inordinately long for a jetliner that crashed into the ground. Somerset County Coroner Wallace Miller said that the identification was originally expected to take six months. On October 26, the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology DNA lab in Rockville, Maryland, which was tasked with identifying the victims using DNA testing, confirmed that 34 of the 44 people alleged to have been on Flight 93 had been identified. 1 Â The account of the fate of Flight 77 has been the most questioned by skeptics of the official story. The official investigation ended on November 16, 2001, declaring that 184 of 189 of those killed in the Pentagon attack had been identified. 2 Â Officials claimed that the remains of all but one of the people on Flight 77 were identified. Human remains were shipped to the mortuary at Dover Air Force Base and to the DNA Identification Laboratory in Rockville, Maryland for identification by forensic pathologists and anthropologists. Two of the forensic scientists who were enlisted in the effort were Drs. Douglas Owsley and Douglas Ubelaker, both of whom were also involved in the identifying the mutilated remains of the victims of the Waco Massacre. 3 Â Few among even the skeptics of the official story doubt that Flights 11 and 175 struck the North and South Towers, despite the vigorously promoted theories that the towers were hit by something other than the jetliners. 4 Â New York City's chief medical examiner, Dr. Charles Hirsch, reported about a year after the attack that 33 victims from Flight 11 and 12 victims from Flight 175 had been identified. 5 Â Dr. Hirsch, who was himself injured in the attack, would appear to be a credible authority. ----------------------------------------------- --------------------------------- References 1. Another 14 victims of Flight 93 identified, post-gazette, [cached] 2. Experts ID 184 Pentagon Fatalities, 1/11/02 [cached] 3. Skeleton Keys, http://Washin gtonPost.com, 5/31/02 [cached] 4. The Phantom Planes Meme, http://911review.c om, 5. More than half of victims IDd, http://nydailyne ws.com, 9/11/02 [cached]
Mark If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers - normally good Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free - Americans who have been lulled into a false security (April 1968).---Ezra Taft Benson, US Secretary of Agriculture 1953-1961 under Eisenhower
September 11-November 16, 2001: Pentagon Victims Taken to Dover Air Force for Mortuary Operations Under the authority of the FBI, remains of 9/11 victims at the Pentagon are taken to a temporary morgue in the Pentagon’s north parking lot, where they are photographed, labeled, and then placed in refrigeration. [Stars and Stripes, 9/17/2001; Arlington County, 7/2002, pp. A-47; Quartermaster Professional Bulletin, 3/2005] They are then transported to Davison Army Airfield at nearby Fort Belvoir, and from there to Dover Air Force Base, Delaware, where there is a large mortuary created for use in wartime. FBI agents accompany the remains at all points during transportation. [American Forces Press Service, 9/15/2001; PBS, 9/21/2001; Soldiers, 10/2001; Arlington County, 7/2002, pp. C-55] About 250 people, including 50 medical examiners and 50 members of the FBI’s ‘disaster team,’ work at the mortuary to identify the remains. [Stars and Stripes, 9/17/2001] Remains are first scanned for the presence of unexploded ordnance or metallic foreign bodies. FBI experts then collect trace evidence to find any chemicals from explosives, and also conduct fingerprint identifications. [Pentagram, 11/30/2001] Other techniques used include dental records and X- rays. Tissue samples are sent to an Armed Forces laboratory in Rockville, Maryland, for DNA analysis. [PBS, 9/21/2001] Identification is problematic because specimens are often unrecognizable body parts, and are nearly always mixed with debris composed of aircraft and building materials. [Harcke, Bifano, and Koeller, 4/2002] However, by the time Dover staff formally end their identification effort, on November 16, they have identified remains of 184 of the 189 people who died in the Pentagon or aboard Flight 77, including the five hijackers (see November 21, 2001). [Washington Post, 11/21/2001] Entity Tags: Dover Air Force Base, Fort Belvoir, Federal Bureau of Investigation, Armed Forces DNA Identification Laboratory, Pentagon September 12, 2001: Virginia Chief Medical Examiner in ‘Tug of War’ Over Who Should do Autopsies of Pentagon Victims Virginia Chief Medical Examiner Dr. Marcella Fierro, believing that state forensic pathologists have jurisdiction over the Pentagon’s land, reassigns staff from three other regional offices to the Northern Virginia office in order to conduct postmortem examinations on victims of the Pentagon attack. However, following what the Washington Post calls a “behind-the-scenes tug of war,” after FBI and Defense Department officials meet with her they instead opt to conduct forensic and mortuary activities at Defense Department facilities. Fierro requests and later receives a letter from Attorney General John Ashcroft relieving her department of its responsibilities. [Washington Post, 9/13/2001; Arlington County, 7/2002, pp. A-47] Entity Tags: Marcella Fierro, US Department of Defense, Federal Bureau of Investigation (September 11-27, 2001): FBI Leads Examination of Flight 93 Crash Scene; Supposedly Recovers 95 Percent of Plane The first FBI agents arrive at the Flight 93 crash scene soon after it goes down. [Kashurba, 2002, pp. 60] Due to the criminal nature of the crash, the FBI becomes lead authority for the investigation of the site. Attempts are made to have the area declared a federal disaster, but these are unsuccessful. [DMORT National News, 1/2002] For about two weeks, the FBI’s evidence recovery team of about 150 agents goes over the site with sifters, filtering evidence from the soil. It recovers about 510 pounds of human remains. [Longman, 2002, pp. 259; Age (Melbourne), 9/9/2002] Despite the lack of wreckage reported by those first at the crash scene (see (After 10:06 a.m.)), the FBI claims that it recovers 95 percent of the plane. The largest piece found, it says, is a seven-foot-long piece of the fuselage skin, including four windows. With the exception of the two black boxes, all wreckage is passed on to United Airlines. Asked what United will do with this, a spokeswoman says, “I don’t think a decision has been made ... but we’re not commenting.” [CNN, 9/24/2001; Pittsburgh Post- Gazette, 9/25/2001] While conducting its investigation of the crash site, the FBI overrules a plan to carefully map the area and mark the positions of debris so as to determine exactly how Flight 93 crashed, claiming this would be too time-consuming (see September 16, 2001). [Longman, 2002, pp. 262] After it completes its work, the site becomes the responsibility of the county coroner, who continues the search for remains. [Longman, 2002, pp. 258-259] Entity Tags: Federal Bureau of Investigation, United Airlines
Mark If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers - normally good Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free - Americans who have been lulled into a false security (April 1968).---Ezra Taft Benson, US Secretary of Agriculture 1953-1961 under Eisenhower
Context of 'November 21, 2001' This page shows all events that either reference, or are referenced by, the event 'November 21, 2001'. September 11-November 16, 2001: Pentagon Victims Taken to Dover Air Force for Mortuary Operations Under the authority of the FBI, remains of 9/11 victims at the Pentagon are taken to a temporary morgue in the Pentagon’s north parking lot, where they are photographed, labeled, and then placed in refrigeration. [Stars and Stripes, 9/17/2001; Arlington County, 7/2002, pp. A-47; Quartermaster Professional Bulletin, 3/2005] They are then transported to Davison Army Airfield at nearby Fort Belvoir, and from there to Dover Air Force Base, Delaware, where there is a large mortuary created for use in wartime. FBI agents accompany the remains at all points during transportation. [American Forces Press Service, 9/15/2001; PBS, 9/21/2001; Soldiers, 10/2001; Arlington County, 7/2002, pp. C-55] About 250 people, including 50 medical examiners and 50 members of the FBI’s ‘disaster team,’ work at the mortuary to identify the remains. [Stars and Stripes, 9/17/2001] Remains are first scanned for the presence of unexploded ordnance or metallic foreign bodies. FBI experts then collect trace evidence to find any chemicals from explosives, and also conduct fingerprint identifications. [Pentagram, 11/30/2001] Other techniques used include dental records and X- rays. Tissue samples are sent to an Armed Forces laboratory in Rockville, Maryland, for DNA analysis. [PBS, 9/21/2001] Identification is problematic because specimens are often unrecognizable body parts, and are nearly always mixed with debris composed of aircraft and building materials. [Harcke, Bifano, and Koeller, 4/2002] However, by the time Dover staff formally end their identification effort, on November 16, they have identified remains of 184 of the 189 people who died in the Pentagon or aboard Flight 77, including the five hijackers (see November 21, 2001). [Washington Post, 11/21/2001] Entity Tags: Dover Air Force Base, Fort Belvoir, Federal Bureau of Investigation, Armed Forces DNA Identification Laboratory, Pentagon November 21, 2001: Flight 77 Remains Identified, Hijackers’ Identities Not Confirmed The remains of all but one of the people on board Flight 77, including the hijackers, are identified. However, the identities of the hijackers have still not been confirmed through their remains [Washington Post, 11/21/2001; Mercury News (San Jose), 1/11/2002] , and the FBI never provides DNA profiles of the hijackers to medical examiners for identification. Strangely, the official position is that there was a giant fireball on impact that not only destroyed the airplane, but actually vaporized the metal. A rescue worker states: “The only way you could tell that an aircraft was inside was that we saw pieces of the nose gear. The devastation was horrific.” [NFPA Journal, 11/1/2001] As of mid-2004, there still have been no reports that the hijackers’ remains have been identified by their DNA, except possibly for two unnamed hijackers. Entity Tags: Federal Bureau of Investigation
Mark If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers - normally good Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free - Americans who have been lulled into a false security (April 1968).---Ezra Taft Benson, US Secretary of Agriculture 1953-1961 under Eisenhower
December 6, 2005 63 versus 11 There is a theory as to why it doesn't look like a large commercial airplane crashed into the Pentagon even though one supposedly did. This theory says that the plane essentially "disintegrated upon impact" and any of it left over "melted" afterwards in the very hot fire from the resulting explosion. Now I can actually buy this theory, especially after seeing that a plane can virtually disintegrate upon impacting a solid object at a very high rate of speed: (Video source: sandia.gov) After seeing the huge explosion created from the plane after it hit, it's fairly reasonable to believe that anything left over could have melted: And when you hear more technical explanations of what happened to the plane after it hit, exploded and then traveled through the building, one wonders how any piece of plane debris, especially inside the building, survived at all: "In this case, one wing hit the ground; the other was sheared off by the force of the impact with the Pentagon's load-bearing columns, explains Sozen, who specializes in the behavior of concrete buildings. What was left of the plane flowed into the structure in a state closer to a liquid than a solid mass." -Popular Mechanics "The impact effects may be represented as a violent flow through the structure of a “fluid” consisting of aviation fuel and solid fragments... There is no question that the progress ofthe impacting fluid in the structure must have verged on the chaotic." - ASCE's Pentagon Building Performance Report Even with the combination of the plane disintegrating, erupting into a huge fireball, and entering the building in more like on a liquid state, some people claim a few pieces of 757 debris did manage to survive inside the Pentagon which are seen on photos posted here. Now there is controversy as to whether these pieces of debris inside the building are in fact plane debris or that they actually came from Flight 77 (a Boeing 757) and some have suggested that these pieces of debris may have planted inside the building before the explosion. Just for the sake of argument, let's just say that all the pieces of debris inside the Pentagon shown at that website actually are authentic 757 debris. Now I've marked all these pieces of debris with red arrows or circles (even though I do not believe that all these pieces that the website suggests are actually plane debris) to identify those mentioned in that website as debris coming from Flight 77: Totaling up all the pieces of debris seen comes to 11 pieces. Pretty amazing that any plane debris survived after all the carnage it went through as described above. But what's even more amazing than these 11 pieces of debris that survived inside the building is that the fact that the remains of 63 of the 64 passengers onboard Flight 77 were said to have survived too. (That's almost six times more than the amount of "plane debris" is seen in photos!) "...the remains of the passengers and crew onboard American Airlines flight 77 were recovered from the Pentagon crash site. A team of more than 100 forensic specialists and others identified 184 of the 189 people who died in the Pentagon attack (125 from the Pentagon and 64 onboard American Airlines flight 77). All but one of the passengers onboard American Airlines flight 77 was positively identified as a match with DNA samples provided by the families of the crash victims." -US Department of State (06/28/05) The only passenger claimed not to have been recovered was the youngest and smallest passenger onboard (of course); Dana Falkenberg, age 3. The passenger's remains were identified at Dover AFB by the Office of the Armed Forces Medical Examiner (AFME) which, coincidentally, were the same people who claimed to have identified all but one of the passengers from Flight 93. (See here for more info about the Flight 77 passengers.) How were the remains of so many passengers able to be recovered as claimed, but so few pieces of plane debris are seen inside? Some people say that it's really not unusual that so many passenger remains survived and so few plane debris since apparently human remains have a higher "melting point" than a plane and that you only need a little bit of human remains left, such as a tooth or piece of bone, to extract DNA from. Also, a sifting operation was set up at the Pentagon to recover any human remains: "Because of the volume of debris inside the Pentagon, front-end loaders were used to load the debris in dump trucks, which carried the debris to a sifting operation in the North Parking Lot. BATF heavy equipment operators spread rubble from inside the Pentagon. Metropolitan Police Department cadaver dogs worked through the debris, then volunteers carefully raked the area searching for body parts... The sifting operation produced about 70 percent of the body parts processed at the morgue." -Arlington County After-Action Report Now before you think that it was just small amounts of the remains of each of the 63 passengers that were found inside the Pentagon (and that you don't think it's nothing short of a miracle that human remains of all of these passengers survived the disintegrating, huge explosion, and chaotic inferno that followed) officials seem to be saying that it was more than just a few "bits and pieces" of the passengers remains that were found. According to their charts, they were able to map the exact spots inside that Pentagon were all the remains were found, including the passengers (green circles), and not only that, but by the way they marked were the remains were found, it looks as if they found more intact bodies rather than "bits and pieces" of passenger remains scattered everywhere, especially by where they claim to have found the remains of the five hijackers (white circles): (Graphic source: Pentagon Building Performance Report) "As they encountered bodies, parts of bodies, and other evidence linked to the crime, they called forward the FBI contingent assigned to each team. Each item was photographed, numbered, and tagged. This information, along with a diagram showing where the evidence was found..." -Arlington County After-Action Report 3.8 FATALITY INFORMATION "Data provided by the Federal Bureau of Investigation included the locations where fatalities were found in the building. This information is reproduced as figures 3.17 and 3.18. 6.1 IMPACT DAMAGE "A study of the locations of fatalities also yields insight into the breakup of the aircraft and, therefore, its influence on the structure. The remains of most of the passengers on the aircraft were found near the end of the travel of the aircraft debris. The front landing gear (a relatively solid and heavy object) and the flight data recorder (which had been located near the rear of the aircraft) were also found nearly 300 ft into the structure. By contrast, the remains of a few individuals (the hijacking suspects), who most likely were near the front of the aircraft, were found relatively close to the aircraft’s point of impact with the building. These data suggest that the front of the aircraft disintegrated essentially upon impact but, in the process, opened up a hole allowing the trailing portions of the fuselage to pass into the building." -Pentagon Building Performance Report (01/03) Here is one further account from officials that obviously indicates that enacted bodies were found inside the building: Pentagon searchers encounter grisly scenes "On Tuesday, Army Staff Sgt. Mark Williams witnessed a combat zone for the first time in his 11 years of service. He never imagined it would be inside the Pentagon. When Williams discovered the scorched bodies of several airline passengers, they were still strapped into their seats. The stench of charred flesh overwhelmed him." -USA Today (09/13/01) Now of course comparing the few plane debris seen in photos and the number of passengers claimed to be recovered is not a totally fair comparison since plane debris photographed near human remains wouldn't be publicly released due to not wanting to upset victims families and what constitutes a single piece of plane debris when breaking one into more pieces would increase the number found and finding multiple pieces of the same person's remain only counts as one? However, wouldn't you expect that if essentially all the passengers bodies were recovered inside the Pentagon as claimed by officials that a lot more pieces of airplane debris should have been seen scattered around in the many many photographs that were taken of the inside damage in the immediate days after the crash such as this one taken on Sept.13th that shows the total carnage inside the building near the point of impact, but seemingly shows no plane debris or bodies: (Photo source: FEMA, 09/13/01) Do you really buy that the bodies of 63 of the 64 passengers were said to have survived impacting into the solid Pentagon building at over 500 mph, exploding into a large fireball, "disintegrating" upon impact, traveling through the Pentagon in a "liquid state," and resisting the intense fire inside the building that burned for days? I have a hard time buying that one. (More about the odd damage inside the Pentagon.)
Mark If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers - normally good Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free - Americans who have been lulled into a false security (April 1968).---Ezra Taft Benson, US Secretary of Agriculture 1953-1961 under Eisenhower
EYEWITNESSES The main source of testimony published in this case are the large number of eyewitness accounts. Watch the video above to get an idea of what the close-up witnesses would have seen. This video was originally of a 757 landing at approximately 115 mph. It has been accelerated by 3x to reflect an aircraft moving 345 mph - the speed recorded by the recovered black boxes. Obviously the witnesses that were further back would have had a larger viewpoint but less visible detail. One of the impressions this left on me was the extreme force that would have hit the building if you picture a wall right at the end of the runway. Another thing that struck me was the tremendous energy with which the light poles would have been impacted. Imagine the right engine hooking a 39,500 pound generator trailer. The most consistent themes in the eyewitness accounts were the double "A's" on the tail, a large silver plane, the hitting of the light poles, the engines going to full-throttle after hitting the poles, and then the fireball. These were reported most commonly. On this page I have highlighted the anomalous witness reports. I am not going to critique them individually (there is a great site at the bottom of the page for more info). The main observation in regards to all of the witness accounts is that very few of them were taken at the scene or even in direct proximity to the event. Most of them had a chance to hear or see the news which told them it was a 757 that hit the Pentagon prior to giving their statements. What we'll do here is simply observe the variety of opinions just to make the point that different people see different things. Meseidy Rodriguez - "it was a mid-sized plane" Washington Post Steve Patterson - "Steve Patterson, 43, said he was watching television reports of the World Trade Center being hit when he saw a silver commuter jet fly past the window of his 14th-floor apartment in Pentagon City. The plane was about 150 yards away, approaching from the west about 20 feet off the ground, Patterson said. He said the plane, which sounded like the high-pitched squeal of a fighter jet, flew over Arlington cemetery so low that he thought it was going to land on I- 395. He said it was flying so fast that he couldn't read any writing on the side. The plane, which appeared to hold about eight to 12 people, headed straight for the Pentagon but was flying as if coming in for a landing on a nonexistent runway, Patterson said." Washington Post Scott P. Cook - "I cannot fathom why neither myself nor Ray, a former Air Force officer, missed a big 757, going 400 miles an hour, as it crossed in front of our window in its last 10 seconds of flight." Statement Ken Ford - "We were watching the airport through binoculars, he said, referring to Reagan National Airport, a short distance away. The plane was a two-engine turbo prop that flew up the river from National. Then it turned back toward the Pentagon. We thought it had been waved off and then it hit the building." Article Sergeant Maurice L. Bease - "Turning around expecting to see a fighter jet fly over, he saw only a split-second glimpse of a white commercial airliner streaking low toward the building, and him! He did not even have time to duck before it plowed into the side of the Pentagon around the corner and about 200 yards from where he stood." Article Mike Dobbs - "was standing on one of the upper levels of the outer ring of the Pentagon looking out the window when he saw an American Airlines 737 two-engine airliner strike the building." Article James S. Robbins - "I was looking directly at it when the aircraft struck. The sight of the 757 diving in at an unrecoverable angle is frozen in my memory, but at the time, I did not immediately comprehend what I was witnessing. There was a silvery flash, an explosion, and a dark, mushroom shaped cloud rose over the building. I froze, gaping for a second until the sound of the detonation, a sharp pop at that distance, shook me out of it." Editorial Levi Stephens - "Two explosions were heard. According to one witness, "what looked like a 747" plowed into the south side of the Pentagon, possibly skipping through a heliport before it hit the building." Article Firefighter Alan Wallace - "was standing outside his fire station when he looked across the nearby interstate and saw a white airplane with orange and blue trim heading almost straight at him. It slammed into the building just a couple hundred feet from him. "When I felt the fire, I hit the ground," he said." Article Local copy- original removed. David Marra - “It was 50 ft. off the deck when he came in. It sounded like the pilot had the throttle completely floored. The plane rolled left and then rolled right. Then he caught an edge of his wing on the ground.” There is a helicopter pad right in front of the side of the Pentagon. The wing touched there, then the plane cart wheeled into the building.” http://time.com/time/world/print out/0,8816,174655,00.h tml (copy and paste this one) Noel Sepulveda - "It seemed like the pilot was scrambling to keep control, and I watched as he dropped lower and lower," Sepulveda said. "Then he dropped his landing gear and started coming down even faster and lower. As it came down, the plane was hitting light poles, the sergeant said. "Then the right wheel hit a light pole and the plane popped into a 45-degree angle" Article Phillip Thompson - "cruising at a shallow angle, wings level, very steady. But, strangely, the landing gear was up and the flaps weren’t down." Article CONCLUSION: We have several types of planes mentioned, different color schemes, wheels up, wheels down, steep dive, level flight, cartwheeling, hitting the helicopter pad and much more I didn't cover. There are even accounts of people seeing the faces of the passengers and one where they saw it hit a helicopter on the pad. At a speed of 506 feet per second very few people had a chance to see the plane up close for more than a fraction of a second as you can observe in the video. Comprehensive witness list from Eric Bart.
Mark If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers - normally good Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free - Americans who have been lulled into a false security (April 1968).---Ezra Taft Benson, US Secretary of Agriculture 1953-1961 under Eisenhower
Å8; French Conspiracy Theorist Claims No Plane Hit Pentagon "In addition to the numerous eyewitness accounts, the remains of the passengers and crew onboard American Airlines flight 77 were recovered from the Pentagon crash site. A team of more than 100 forensic specialists and others identified 184 of the 189 people who died in the Pentagon attack (125 from the Pentagon and 64 onboard American Airlines flight 77). All but one of the passengers onboard American Airlines flight 77 was positively identified as a match with DNA samples provided by the families of the crash victims. These positive forensic identifications provide irrefutable proof that American Airlines flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon on September 11. In addition, rescue and recovery personnel at the Pentagon reported seeing the bodies of airline passengers. The September 14, 2001 edition of USA Today reported, "When [Army Sergeant Mark] Williams discovered the scorched bodies of several airline passengers, they were still strapped in their seats." -US Department of State (06/28/05) ----------------------------------------------- --------------------------------- Å8; Pentagon searchers encounter grisly scenes "On Tuesday, Army Staff Sgt. Mark Williams witnessed a combat zone for the first time in his 11 years of service. He never imagined it would be inside the Pentagon. One of the first recovery personnel to enter the crippled headquarters building after a hijacked Boeing 757 smashed into it, the urban search-and- rescue specialist found a gruesome sight. "If anyone has ever burned a pot roast, they'll know what the victims looked like," Williams, 30, said Thursday after another 12-hour shift of searching for 190 bodies — those of 126 missing Pentagon personnel and the 64 aboard the doomed jetliner. When Williams discovered the scorched bodies of several airline passengers, they were still strapped into their seats. The stench of charred flesh overwhelmed him. As of Thursday morning, search teams had recovered 70 bodies. The remains were being carried by helicopter to Dover Air Force Base in Delaware to be identified." -USA Today (09/13/01) ----------------------------------------------- --------------------------------- Å8; Web Exclusive: Washington’s Heroes "Early Friday morning, shortly before 4 a.m., Burkhammer and another firefighter, Brian Moravitz, were combing through debris near the impact site. Peering at the wreckage with their helmet lights, the two spotted an intact seat from the plane’s cockpit with a chunk of the floor still attached." -MSNBC (09/28/03) ----------------------------------------------- --------------------------------- Å8; "Data provided by the Federal Bureau of Investigation included the locations where fatalities were found in the building. This information is reproduced as figures 3.17 and 3.18. No fatalities from the aircraft were found on the second floor (figure 3.18). The figure shows no fatalities in the collapsed area above the first floor. In fact, it is likely that there were upper floor fatalities in this area, but their remains were found on the first-floor level after the building collapsed. The Army Medical Command examined the recovered remains to determine the causes of death. Approximately one third of the fatalities were related to the impact, one- third to the fire, and one-third to a combination of impact and fire." [pg. 20] "The remains of most of the passengers on the aircraft were found near the end of the travel of the aircraft debris. The front landing gear (a relatively solid and heavy object) and the flight data recorder (which had been located near the rear of the aircraft) were also found nearly 300 ft into the structure. By contrast, the remains of a few individuals (the hijacking suspects), who most likely were near the front of the aircraft, were found relatively close to the aircraft’s point of impact with the building. These data suggest that the front of the aircraft disintegrated essentially upon impact but, in the process, opened up a hole allowing the trailing portions of the fuselage to pass into the building." [pg. 40] "The damage pattern throughout the building and the locations of fatalities and aircraft components, together with the deformation of columns, suggest that the entire aircraft disintegrated rapidly as it moved through the forest of columns on the first floor. [pg.41] - Pentagon Building Performance Report ----------------------------------------------- --------------------------------- Å8; "Investigators have identified remains of 184 people who were aboard American Airlines Flight 77 or inside the Pentagon, including those of the five hijackers, but they say it is impossible to match what is left with the five missing people. A team of more than 100 workers at a military morgue at Dover Air Force Base in Delaware used several methods to identify remains but primarily relied on DNA testing and dental records. They formally ended their effort Friday after concluding that some remains were too badly burned to identify. The fifth unidentified victim was a passenger on the hijacked plane. A spokesman for the FBI declined to disclose the name of the victim. All 64 people aboard the hijacked plane, including six crew members and the five hijackers, were also killed." -Washington Post (11/21/01); Arlington National Cemetery (11/21/01) ----------------------------------------------- --------------------------------- Å8; "What some experts have called "the most comprehensive forensic investigation in U.S. history" ended Nov. 16 with the identification of 184 of the 189 who died in the terrorist attack on the Pentagon. Many of the casualties were badly burned and difficult to identify, an official said. Of the 189 killed, 125 worked at the Pentagon and 64 were passengers on American Airlines Flight 77. Only one of those who died made it to the hospital. The rest were killed on site, and for some, only pieces of tissue could be found. A board-certified epidemiologist managed the tracking system for data collected during the autopsy process, and tissue samples were collected for DNA identification and further toxicology studies. Teams of forensic scientists, under the direction of Demris Lee, technical leader of the Nuclear DNA Section, took over the difficult chore of generating a DNA profile of the victims. Their work included not only the Pentagon crash victims, but the victims of the Somerset County crash as well." -DC Military (11/30/01) ----------------------------------------------- --------------------------------- Å8; "Unidentifiable remains of victims of the September 11, 2001, attack on the Pentagon will be buried in Arlington National Cemetery, the military said Friday. The five victims whose remains have not been identified include: Dana Falkenberg, a passenger on Flight 77" -Arlington National Cemetery (08/16/02) ----------------------------------------------- --------------------------------- Å8; "While identification information on military personnel is stored and centrally available, information on the 64 civilians on Flight 77 took weeks to arrive. By November 16, 2001, all but five sets of remains had been identified prior to mortuary specialists taking care of them before release to next-of- kin. “Because of the combined effort of all three services and the FBI” the process worked quickly. It was “the most comprehensive forensic investigation in U.S. history.” Personnel from the AFME [Armed Forces Medical Examiner] supported, including acting as team leader, the identification of remains from United Airlines Flight 93 that crashed in Somerset, PA. All but one of the passengers and crew were identified. Armed Forces DNA Identification Laboratory personnel were crucial in identifying victims." - Soldiers to the Rescue/Armed Forces Medical Examiner ----------------------------------------------- --------------------------------- Å8; "Among the human remains painstakingly sorted from the Pentagon and Pennsylvania crash sites of Sept. 11 are those of nine of the hijackers. In contrast, the remains of all 40 victims in the Pennsylvania crash and all but five of the 184 victims at the Pentagon site were identified months ago. Families of the airplanes' passengers and crews and those who died within the Pentagon provided DNA samples, typically on toothbrushes or hairbrushes, to aid with identification." -CBS/AP (08/17/02)
Mark If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers - normally good Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free - Americans who have been lulled into a false security (April 1968).---Ezra Taft Benson, US Secretary of Agriculture 1953-1961 under Eisenhower
What about all the witnesses? This site has listed here only the witness testimony that we feel offers significant evidence to both sides of the debate. Since this site (and most other conspiracy sites) believes that another plane or aircraft that looked like a "plane" crashed into the Pentagon instead of Flight 77 and no eyewitnesses have described seeing something other than a "plane", we have omitted the eyewitnesses who only testify of just seeing a "plane" and have no other description of that plane for the purpose of avoiding redundant testimony. Also, we have noted the description of the color of an American Airlines plane as neutral to this debate since any aircraft can be painted to look like an American Airlines plane, decals included. For other collections of eyewitness testimony, please visit the following sites... It was a plane bomb (This site supports the conspiracy.) Pentagon Crash Witness Accounts (This site supports the Pentagon's official claim.) They saw the Aircraft (This site supports the Pentagon's official claim. Note: Links do not work on this mirrored page.) Eyewitness' testimony has been color coded as the following... Supports conspiracy - Describes something very different than an American Airlines Boeing 757 or other suspicious stuff. Supports official claim - Describes a large aircraft, a Boeing 757, or something very similar (i.e. 727, 747). Aircraft hitting ground - Describes the aircraft hitting the ground which conflicts with the lawn photos. Aircraft hitting light poles - Describes aircraft hitting light poles which is consistent with the light pole evidence.. Second Plane - Describes seeing a second plane in the area at the time of the crash other than the military jetfighters who arrived later. Odd/Unique/Strange - Testimony that has not been corroborated or seems to contradict everybody. Trajectory of aircraft - Describes the altitude and action of the aircraft as it flew in. Description of interest - Describes something of a particular interest. Witnesses... Steve Anderson - saw a commercial jet barrel into the Pentagon. "To say it was like a dream is an understatement," he says. "It was unbelievable. This giant, incredible, orange ball of fire shot into the air." (More) - A few moments later, as I was looking down at my desk, the plane caught my eye. I thought to myself that I couldn't believe the pilot was flying so low. I watched in horror as the plane flew at treetop level, banked slightly to the left, drug it's wing along the ground and slammed into the west wall of the Pentagon exploding into a giant orange fireball. Then black smoke. Then white smoke. Maurice L. Bease, Sergeant, Marines - had worked around Marine aviation long enough to know what a fly-by was, and it sounded like one as he stood outside his office near the Pentagon on Sept. 11. Turning around expecting to see a fighter jet fly over, he saw only a split-second glimpse of a white commercial airliner streaking low toward the building, and him! He did not even have time to duck before it plowed into the side of the Pentagon around the corner and about 200 yards from where he stood. Mickey Bell, Singleton Electric foreman - The jet came in from the south and banked left as it entered the building, narrowly missing the Singleton Electric trailer and the on-site foreman. Bell had just left the trailer when he heard a loud noise. The next thing he recalled was picking himself off the floor, where he had been thrown by the blast. Bell, who had been less than 100 feet from the initial impact of the plane, was nearly struck by one of the plane's wings as it sped by him. (More) - The full impact of the closeness of the crash wasn't realized until coworkers noticed damage to Bell's work vehicle. He had plastic and rivets from an airplane imbedded in its sheet metal, but Bell had no idea what had happened. Richard Benedetto, USA TODAY reporter - saw the plane slam into the Pentagon. "It sounded like an artillery shell. It hit on the west side of the building, near the helipad." Sean Boger, Air Traffic Controller and Pentagon tower chief "I just looked up and I saw the big nose and the wings of the aircraft coming right at us and I just watched it hit the building." "It exploded. I fell to the ground and covered my head. I could actually hear the metal going through the building." The crew, Boger and Spc. Jacqueline Kidd, air traffic controller and training supervisor, prepared for President George W. Bush to arrive from Florida around 12:30 p.m. James R. Cissell, former photojournalist ''Out of my peripheral vision,'' Cissell said, ''I saw this plane coming in and it was low - and getting lower. ''I thought, 'This isn't really happening. That is a big plane.' Then I saw the faces of some of the passengers on board,'' Cissell said. Then the plane, which was taking out telephone and power lines on its way in, hit the building. While he remembers seeing the crash, Cissell remembers none of the sounds. ''It came in in a perfectly straight line,'' he said. ''It didn't slow down. I want to say it accelerated. It just shot straight in.'' (No other witnesses described seeing passengers in the windows.) Richard Cox, Arlington County Police Dept. - On September 11, 2001, at approximately 9:37 a.m., ACPD Corporal Barry Foust and Officer Richard Cox, on patrol in south Arlington County, saw a large American Airlines aircraft in steep descent on a collision course with the Pentagon. The 'Other' Tragedy "The hijacked jetliner, traveling at 350 miles an hour, was only about 100 feet from the ground when it cruised over Arlington police officer Richard Cox's head, just a quarter mile from the Pentagon. "It was low enough for me to see the reflection of cars and trees and buildings on its underside as it passed by," he says. "It was low enough for my heart to stop." - USNews (12/10/01) Steve DeChiaro, engineer As he reached the west side of the building he saw a light post bent in half. "But when I looked at the site, my brain could not resolve the fact that it was a plane because it only seemed like a small hole in the building," he said. "No tail. No wings. No nothing." - http://GoMemphis.co m (08/01/02) Michael DiPaula, 41, project coordinator Pentagon Renovation Team He left a meeting in the Pentagon just minutes before the crash, looking for an electrician who didn't show, in a construction trailer less than 75 feet away. "Suddenly, an airplane roared into view, nearly shearing the roof off the trailer before slamming into the E ring. 'It sounded like a missile,' DiPaula recalls . . . Buried in debris and covered with airplane fuel, he was briefly listed by authorities as missing, but eventually crawled from the flaming debris and the shroud of black smoke unscathed. Daryl Donley "It just was amazingly precise," Donley... said of the plane's impact. "It completely disappeared into the Pentagon." Steve Eiden, truck driver He took the Highway 95 loop in the area of the Pentagon and thought it odd to see a plane in restricted airspace, thinking to himself it was odd that it was flying so low. "You could almost see the people in the windows," he said as he watched the plane disappear behind a line of trees, followed by a tall plume of black smoke. Penny Elgas The plane was directly over the cars in front of my car, the plane seemed to be not more than 80 feet off the ground and about 4-5 car lengths in front of me. It was far enough in front of me that I saw the end of the wing closest to me and the underside of the other wing as that other wing rocked slightly toward the ground. I remember recognizing it as an American Airlines plane -- I could see the windows and the color stripes. In my adrenaline-filled state of mind, I was overcome by my visual senses. The day had started out beautiful and sunny and I had driven to work with my car's sunroof open. I believe that I may have also had one or more car windows open because the traffic wasn't moving anyway. At the second that I saw the plane, my visual senses took over completely and I did not hear or feel anything -- not the roar of the plane, or wind force, or impact sounds. The plane seemed to be floating as if it were a paper glider and I watched in horror as it gently rocked and slowly glided straight into the Pentagon. At the point where the fuselage hit the wall, it seemed to simply melt into the building. I saw a smoke ring surround the fuselage as it made contact with the wall. It appeared as a smoke ring that encircled the fuselage at the point of contact and it seemed to be several feet thick. I later realized that it was probably the rubble of churning bits of the plane and concrete. The churning smoke ring started at the top of the fuselage and simultaneously wrapped down both the right and left sides of the fuselage to the underside, where the coiling rings crossed over each other and then coiled back up to the top. Then it started over again -- only this next time, I also saw fire, glowing fire in the smoke ring. At that point, the wings disappeared into the Pentagon. And then I saw an explosion and watched the tail of the plane slip into the building. Barry Foust, Corporal, Arlington County Police Dept. On September 11, 2001, at approximately 9:37 a.m., ACPD Corporal Barry Foust and Officer Richard Cox, on patrol in south Arlington County, saw a large American Airlines aircraft in steep descent on a collision course with the Pentagon. Fred Gaskins, national editor at USA TODAY "(The plane) was flying fast and low and the Pentagon was the obvious target," who was driving to his job... near the Pentagon when the plane passed about 150 feet overhead. "It was flying very smoothly and calmly, without any hint that anything was wrong." Gilah Goldsmith, personnel attorney at the Pentagon - "We saw a huge black cloud of smoke," she said, saying it smelled like cordite, or gun smoke. (cordite - A smokeless explosive powder consisting of nitrocellulose, nitroglycerin, and petrolatum that has been dissolved in acetone, dried, and extruded in cords.) Afework Hagos, computer programmer - was on his way to work but stuck in a traffic jam near the Pentagon when the plane flew over. "There was a huge screaming noise and I got out of the car as the plane came over. It was tilting its wings up and down like it was trying to balance. It hit some lampposts on the way in." "Afework Hagos, a consultant who was commuting to his job, saw the plane bank around and fly into the Pentagon, its wings see-sawing before it disappeared. ''It created a huge smoke,'' Hagos said, before a man in an FBI windbreaker whisked him off to get his eyewitness account." - Boston Globe (09/12/01) Terrance Kean, 35 - who lives in a 14-story building nearby, heard the loud jet engines and glanced out his window. "I saw this very, very large passenger jet," said the architect, who had been packing for a move. "It just plowed right into the side of the Pentagon. The nose penetrated into the portico. And then it sort of disappeared, and there was fire and smoke everywhere. . . . It was very sort of surreal." D. S. Khavkin - my husband and I heard an aircraft directly overhead. At first, we thought it was the jets that sometimes fly overhead. However, it appeared to be a small commercial aircraft. The engine was at full throttle. First, the plane knocked down a number of street lamp poles, then headed directly for the Pentagon and crashed on the lawn near the west side the Pentagon. Kelly Knowles, 22 - Another Hampton Roads native says she saw a second plane in the air over the Pentagon as a hijacked jet plunged into the five-sided military fortress Tuesday. Kelly Knowles, a First Colonial High School alumnus who now lives in an apartment a few miles from the Pentagon, said some sort of plane followed the doomed American Airlines jet toward the Pentagon, then veered away after the explosion. "Thank God somebody else saw that. There was most definitely a second plane," Knowles said. "It's so frustrating because nobody knows about the second plane, or if they do they're hiding it for some reason." FBI spokesmen say they have not heard about it, although both Knowles and Keith Wheelhouse, the Virginia Beach man, were interviewed by FBI agents. A Pentagon official said late Friday no other plane was flying with the jetliner. But he said it was possible a military plane was in the area at the time of the attack. Planes never pass over her Fairfax County apartment, she said, so when a low-flying, high-speed plane buzzed the high-rise, she jumped up, ran to the windows and saw the rear of a jet heading toward Washington, D.C. A few seconds later, a second plane that seemed to be chasing the first passed over at a slightly different angle, she said. - Daily Press/Newport News (09/15/01) [Reprinted at: http://c ooperativeresearch.org] Allan Lindsley, Army Captain, Physicians Assistant for Emergency Medical Services at Dewitt Army Community Hospital, Ft. Belvoir, VA. "At the time we could walk right up to the building. I walked right down, I was within 100 meters of the building, right in front of the crash site. I didn’t see any of the plane. By then, the floors had collapsed. Two FBI agents looking for airplane parts closer to the building walked into a yellow jacket nest and got stung several times. I walked by that and looked up on the outer ring and you could see right at the crash site, and you could see filing cabinets and a computer monitor sitting there. They weren’t blackened, they didn’t look like they’d been moved, it looked like somebody had just driven by and broke a hole and nothing was touched. That was on the outer ring. A lot of water, you could tell there were broken pipes and stuff, you could see that. You could see where the fire had extended almost a complete length to the left of the crash site and to the right, it only went maybe five windows over. I was told that that was because of the new construction that they were doing and fire walls had been put in. You could tell that to the right the structural integrity was much better. To the left is where they were really having to do a lot of shoring up of the building. To the right there was more steel, and to the left there wasn’t as much steel in it. So they’ve been replacing that." - Soldiers to the Rescue/Responding in the Pentagon [HTML] Lincoln Liebner, Army Captain "An eye-witness says an American Airlines passenger jet flew low straight into the Pentagon and crashed into the first floor of the building. I saw this large American Airlines passenger jet coming in fast and low," said Army Captain Lincoln Liebner. "My first thought was I've never seen one that high. Before it hit I realised what was happening," he said. Captain Liebner says the aircraft struck a helicopter on the helipad, setting fire to a fire truck. "We got one guy out of the [fire truck] cab," he said, adding he could hear people crying inside the wreckage. Captain Liebner, who had cuts on his hands from the debris, says he has been parking his car in the car park when the crash occurred." - Australian Broadcasting Corp (09/12/01) [Reprinted with Wayback Machine] (More) From his vantage point, Maj. Leibner looked up and saw the plane come in. "I was about 100 yards away," he said. "You could see through the windows of the aircraft. I saw it hit." Excerpts from an interview with Major Lincoln Leibner, who worked in Cables Office of the Office of the Secretary of Defense in the Pentagon. "I was just about to make my turn up the sidewalk towards one of the entrances when I heard jet engines. It was not the normal jet track into National Airport, which is very, very different. I turned my head about maybe 90 degrees towards the sound of the engines, which were very loud. I fully expected to see A-10s or F-15s or something, and I saw the American Airlines airplane coming down. I watched the entire terminal descent into the building. It’s probably the loudest noise I ever heard in my life. I have heard artillery very close. I have heard rock concerts, but nothing came close to that noise. I watched the entire airplane go into the building. I was personally shook by whatever percussion, and not hit, and the fireball from my angle wasn’t as dramatic as I have subsequently seen on the file tape. I got to the building. Remarkably, there was no debris from the airplane. In the immediate area around the Pentagon, the grass was all scorched and blackened. Windows were obviously knocked out and you could hear a fire inside the building but the fires weren’t that prevalent at that point. It was just smoke, and it wasn’t even all that bad. One man in the ambulance with me had no idea what happened, kept asking whether it was a bomb. I told them what I had seen and what I gather is that I was the first personal account that he had. Even at this point, I don’t believe the Secretary was confident that, in fact, a civilian airliner had hit the building. I think they still speculated about a bomb, a cruise missile, a small aircraft, but I was glad I was able to give useful information. I told them the plane came in full throttle, level, flaps up, wheels up, wasn’t crashed into the building, was flown into the building. The Secretary was essentially incredulous, but, then again, maybe that was just his manner. He asked me if I was sure. And as I said, I was close enough to look into the windows of the airplane as it flew passed. There was no doubt in my mind what I had seen." - Soldiers to the Rescue/Responding in the Pentagon [HTML] David Marra, 23, information-technology specialist "It was 50 ft. off the deck when he came in. It sounded like the pilot had the throttle completely floored. The plane rolled left and then rolled right. Then he caught an edge of his wing on the ground." There is a helicopter pad right in front of the side of the Pentagon. The wing touched there, then the plane cartwheeled into the building. Father Stephen McGraw - "I did not hear anything at all until the plane was just right above our cars." McGraw estimates that the plane passed about 20 feet over his car, as he waited in the left hand lane of the road, on the side closest to the Pentagon. "The plane clipped the top of a light pole just before it got to us, injuring a taxi driver, whose taxi was just a few feet away from my car. "I saw it crash into the building," he said. "My only memories really were that it looked like a plane coming in for a landing. I mean in the sense that it was controlled and sort of straight. That was my impression," he said. William Middleton Sr. was running his street sweeper through the cemetery when he heard a harsh whistling sound overhead. Middleton looked up and spotted a commercial jet whose pilot seemed to be fighting with his own craft. Middleton said the plane was no higher than the tops of telephone poles as it lurched toward the Pentagon. The jet accelerated in the final few hundred yards before it tore into the building. Terry Morin The aircraft was essentially right over the top of me and the outer portion of the FOB. I estimate that the aircraft was no more than 100 feet above me in a slight nose down attitude. The plane had a silver body with red and blue stripes down the fuselage. I believed at the time that it belonged to American Airlines, but I couldn’t be sure. It looked like a 737 and I so reported to authorities. Within seconds the plane cleared the 8th Wing of BMDO and was heading directly towards the Pentagon. Engines were at a steady high-pitched whine, indicating to me that the throttles were steady and full. The flight path appeared to be deliberate, smooth, and controlled. I could now only see the tail of the aircraft. I then confirmed that the aircraft had been flown directly into the Pentagon without hitting the ground first or skipping into the building. Christopher Munsey, Navy Times reporter "I couldn’t believe what I was now seeing to my right: A silver, twin-engine American Airlines jetliner gliding almost noiselessly over the Navy Annex, fast, low and straight toward the Pentagon, just hundreds of yards away. The plane, with red and blue markings, hurtled by and within moments exploded in a ground- shaking “whoomp,” as it appeared to hit the side of the Pentagon." Eileen Murphy, Head Nurse of the Minor Surgery Clinic at the DiLorenzo TRICARE Health Clinic "I knew it was a crash site before we got there, and I didn’t know what it was going to look like. I couldn’t imagine because the building is like rock solid. I expected to see the airplane, so I guess my initial impression was, “Where’s the plane? How come there’s not a plane?” I would have thought the building would have stopped it and somehow we would have seen something like part of, or half of the plane, or the lower part, or the back of the plane. So it was just a real surprise that the plane wasn’t there." - Soldiers to the Rescue/Responding in the Pentagon [HTML] Vin Narayanan, reporter USA Today "The plane exploded after it hit, the tail came off and it began burning immediately... driving near the Pentagon when the plane hit. (More) - Then I looked up to my left and saw an American Airlines jet flying right at me. The jet roared over my head, clearing my car by about 25 feet. The tail of the plane clipped the overhanging exit sign above me as it headed straight at the Pentagon. The windows were dark on American Airlines Flight 77 as it streaked toward its target, only 50 yards away. But the Pentagon's wall held up like a champ. It barely budged as the nose of the plane curled upwards and crumpled before exploding into a massive fireball. The people who built that wall should be proud. Its ability to withstand the initial impact of the jet probably saved thousands of lives. I hopped out of my car after the jet exploded, nearly oblivious to a second jet hovering in the skies. Steve O'Brien, Lt. Col., pilot of the Minnesota National Guard C-130 cargo plane seen flying around the Pentagon Lt. Col. Steve O'Brien started his day at the controls of a Minnesota National Guard C-130 cargo plane. He and his crew were heading back to the Twin Cities after moving military supplies around the Caribbean. About 9:30 a.m., O'Brien throttled the lumbering plane down a runway at Andrews Air Force Base, just southeast of the District of Columbia. "When we took off, we headed north and west and had a beautiful view of the Mall," he said. "I noticed this airplane up and to the left of us, at 10 o'clock. He was descending to our altitude, four miles away or so. That's awful close, so I was surprised he wasn't calling out to us. "It was like coming up to an intersection. When air traffic control asked me if we had him in sight, I told him that was an understatement - by then, he had pretty much filled our windscreen. Then he made a pretty aggressive turn so he was moving right in front of us, a mile and a half, two miles away. I said we had him in sight, then the controller asked me what kind of plane it was. "That caught us up, because normally they have all that information. The controller didn't seem to know anything." O'Brien reported that the plane was either a 757 or 767 and its silver fuselage meant it was probably an American Airlines jet. "They told us to turn and follow that aircraft - in 20-plus years of flying, I've never been asked to do something like that. With all of the East Coast haze, I had a hard time picking him out. "The next thing I saw was the fireball. It was huge. I told Washington the airplane has impacted the ground. Shook everyone up pretty good. I told them the approximate location was close to the Potomac. I figured he'd had some in-flight emergency and was trying to get back on the ground to Washington National. Suddenly, I could see the outline of the Pentagon. It was horrible. I told Washington this thing has impacted the west side of the Pentagon." O'Brien asked the controller whether he should set up a low orbit around the building but was told to get out of the area as quickly as possible. "I took the plane once through the plume of smoke and thought if this was a terrorist attack, it probably wasn't a good idea to be flying through that plume." He flew west, not exactly sure where he was supposed to land. Somewhere over western Pennsylvania, O'Brien looked down at a blackened, smoldering field. "I hoped it was just a tire fire or something, but when I checked with Cleveland center, he told me he'd just lost a guy off the scope pretty close to where we saw it. He finally landed at the Youngstown, Ohio, airport." - http://Highbeam .com/Star Tribune (09/11/02) [Reprinted at: http://c ooperativeresearch.org] A Minnesota guard crew witnessed hijackers crashing American Airlines Flight 77 into the Pentagon on September 11, 2001, and were also the first to report the smoke of United Airlines Flight 93 minutes after it went down in Pennsylvania. Lt. Col. Steve O'Brien was at the controls of the C-130 aircraft on that day. His crew had just departed Andrews AFB on what he thought would be a normal flight home to Minnesota. But what he and his crew witnessed defies odds and will forever be woven into the fabric of the history of the infamous day. "You just wonder how you could be in those two geographic locations at those exact times and witness those events," O'Brien told 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS. On September 11, 2001, O'Brien's plane had just taken off when air traffic controllers asked him to identify and follow Flight 77, which was suspected of being a hijacked plane. O'Brien saw that plane pass directly in front of his Minnesota National Guard C-130 aircraft. "We told them we did have it in sight, and they asked us to follow the suspect aircraft." O'Brien remembered. "In 20 years of flying I'd never been asked to do that, especially following a commercial jetliner." A few minutes later, O'Brien saw the first horrific sight of his day: American Airlines Flight 77 had hit the Pentagon. "We were having a hard time keeping up with that aircraft, but we saw the explosion on the ground." After that, O'Brien and his crew headed west toward home. But over Pennsylvania, air traffic controllers asked him and his crew if they saw another aircraft in trouble. The crew of the C-130 saw the smoke from United Airlines Flight 93, which had crashed just 2 minutes earlier. "You feel like you are a part of history," O'Brien said. "Even if you were not directly involved, you had a chance to witness it." - 5 Eyewitness News (12/25/04) John O’Keefe “I don’t know whether I saw or heard it first -- this silver plane; I immediately recognized it as an American Airlines jet,” said the 25-year-old O’Keefe, managing editor of Influence, an American Lawyer Media publication about lobbying. “It came swooping in over the highway, over my left shoulder, straight across where my car was heading. “The eeriest thing about it, was that it was like you were watching a movie. There was no huge explosion, no huge rumbling on ground, it just went ‘pfff.’ It wasn’t what I would have expected for a plane that was not much more than a football field away from me. “The first thing I did was pull over onto the shoulder, and when I got out of the car I saw another plane flying over my head, and it scared ...me, because I knew there had been two planes that hit the World Trade Center. And I started jogging up the ramp to get as far away as possible. “Then the plane -- it looked like a C-130 cargo plane -- started turning away from the Pentagon, it did a complete turnaround. Mary Ann Owens, Gannett News Service employee "Instantly I knew what was happening, and I involuntarily ducked as the plane passed perhaps 50 to 75 feet above the roof of my car at great speed," Owens said. "The plane slammed into the west wall of the Pentagon. The impact was deafening. The fuselage hit the ground and blew up." (More) - Gripping the steering wheel of my vibrating car, I involuntarily ducked as the wobbling plane thundered over my head. Once it passed, I raised slightly and grimaced as the left wing dipped and scraped the helicopter area just before the nose crashed into the southwest wall of the Pentagon. Steve Patterson, 43, graphics artist saw a silver commuter jet fly past the window of his 14th-floor apartment in Pentagon City. The plane was about 150 yards away, approaching from the west about 20 feet off the ground. He said the plane, which sounded like the high- pitched squeal of a fighter jet, flew over Arlington cemetary so low that he thought it was going to land on I-395. He said it was flying so fast that he couldn't read any writing on the side. The plane, which appeared to hold about eight to 12 people, headed straight for the Pentagon...He said the plane, which approached the Pentagon below treetop level, seemed to be flying normally for a plane coming in for a landing other than going very fast for being so low. Then, he said, he saw the Pentagon "envelope" the plane and bright orange flames shoot out the back of the building. "It looked like a normal landing, as if someone knew exactly what they were doing," said Patterson, a graphics artist who works at home. "This looked intentional." Christine Peterson I was at a complete stop on the road in front of the helipad at the Pentagon; what I had thought would be a shortcut was as slow as the other routes I had taken that morning. I looked idly out my window to the left -- and saw a plane flying so low I said, “holy cow, that plane is going to hit my car” (not my actual words). The car shook as the plane flew over. It was so close that I could read the numbers under the wing. And then the plane crashed. My mind could not comprehend what had happened. Where did the plane go? For some reason I expected it to bounce off the Pentagon wall in pieces. But there was no plane visible, only huge billows of smoke and torrents of fire. Maybon Pollock, Sergeant First Class, NCOIC Logistics in the DiLorenzo TRICARE Health Clinic. "At that point we were able to see the last part of the plane, where it stopped, basically. It was a big 8 by 10 or bigger, I’m just guessing, hole in the wall. You could see the tire, the landing gear, were just forward of it. I was more impressed, I was truly impressed, with how the building stood up, after they told me the size of the plane. And then I was in awe that I saw no plane, nothing left from the plane. It was like it disintegrated as it went into the building." - Soldiers to the Rescue/Responding in the Pentagon [HTML] Lon Rains, Editor at Space News With the Pentagon to the left of my van at about 10 o’clock on the dial of a clock, I glanced at my watch to see if I was going to be late for my appointment. At that moment I heard a very loud, quick whooshing sound that began behind me and stopped suddenly in front of me and to my left. In fractions of a second I heard the impact and an explosion. The next thing I saw was the fireball. I was convinced it was a missile. It came in so fast it sounded nothing like an airplane. Friends and colleagues have asked me if I felt a shock wave and I honestly do not know. Rick Renzi, a law student ''The plane came in at an incredibly steep angle with incredibly high speed,''... was driving by the Pentagon at the time of the crash about 9:40 a.m. The impact created a huge yellow and orange fireball, he added. Renzi, who was interviewed at the scene by FBI agents, said he stopped his car to watch and saw another plane following and turn off after the first craft's impact. James S. Robbins, a national-security analyst & NRO contributor I was looking directly at it when the aircraft struck. The sight of the 757 diving in at an unrecoverable angle is frozen in my memory, but at the time, I did not immediately comprehend what I was witnessing. There was a silvery flash, an explosion, and a dark, mushroom shaped cloud rose over the building. Tom Seibert, 33, a network engineer at the Pentagon "We heard what sounded like a missile, then we heard a loud boom," "We were sitting there and watching this thing from New York, and I said, you know, the next best target would be us. And five minutes later, boom." Noel Sepulveda, Master Sgt., Air Force He saw the plane fly above a nearby hotel and drop its landing gear. The plane’s right wheel struck a light pole, causing it to fly at a 45- degree angle, he said. The plane tried to recover, but hit a second light pole and continued flying at an angle. "You could hear the engines being revved up even higher," Sepulveda said. The plane dipped its nose and crashed into the southwest side of the Pentagon. "The right engine hit high, the left engine hit low," Sepulveda said. "For a brief moment, you could see the body of the plane sticking out from the side of the building. Then a ball of fire came from behind it." - http://dcmilitary. com (04/19/02) Levi Stephens, 23, courier Armed Forces Information Service According to one witness, "what looked like a 747" plowed into the south side of the Pentagon, possibly skipping through a heliport before it hit the building. Personnel working in the Navy Annex, over which the airliner flew, said they heard the distinct whine of jet engines as the airliner approached. "I was driving away from the Pentagon in the South Pentagon lot when I hear this huge rumble, the ground started shaking … I saw this [plane] come flying over the Navy Annex. It flew over the van and I looked back and I saw this huge explosion, black smoke everywhere." Joel Sucherman, USA Today Editor "My first thought was he's not going to make it across the river to [Reagan] National Airport. But whoever was flying the plane made no attempt to change direction," Sucherman said. "It was coming in at a high rate of speed, but not at a steep angle--almost like a heat-seeking missile was locked onto its target and staying dead on course." "I didn't feel anything coming out of the Pentagon [in terms of debris]," he said. "A couple of minutes later, police cars and fire trucks headed to the scene." Ironically, the passage of emergency vehicles got traffic moving again, which was now crunching over twisted metal Sucherman guessed was the skin of the plane. Off to the west, Sucherman saw another plane climb steeply and make a sharp turn. "I thought, 'Is this thing coming around to make a second attack? If there is another explosion, we're toast.'" (Video) - "I did not see the engines, I saw the body and the tail; and it was a silver jet with the markings along the windows that spoke to me as an American Airlines jet, this was not a commercial, excuse me, a business jet, it was not a lear jet, it was a bigger plane than that." Tim Timmerman A pilot who saw the impact... said it had been an American Airways 757. "It added power on its way in," he said. "The nose hit, and the wings came forward and it went up in a fireball." (More) - And then it came out, and I saw it hit right in front of -- it didn't appear to crash into the building; most of the energy was dissipated in hitting the ground, but I saw the nose break up, I saw the wings fly forward, and then the conflagration engulfed everything in flames. It was horrible. It was a Boeing 757, American Airlines, no question. Jose Velasquez, NEXCOM Citgo station supervisor "I knew something was wrong. The planes come more from the north and west [to land at Reagan National Airport] not from the south. And not so low." His gas station, open only to Department of Defense personnel... Velasquez says the gas station's security cameras are close enough to the Pentagon to have recorded the moment of impact. "I've never seen what the pictures looked like," he said. "The FBI was here within minutes and took the film." Alan Wallace, Pentagon Firefighter - was standing outside his fire station when he looked across the nearby interstate and saw a white airplane with orange and blue trim heading almost straight at him. It slammed into the building just a couple hundred feet from him. "When I felt the fire, I hit the ground," he said. (More) - President Bush was scheduled to fly from Florida that afternoon, and his helicopter, Marine One, would carry him to the Pentagon. That meant Secret Service everywhere and their cars blocking the driveway. So the meticulous Wallace moved the fire truck out of the way, parking it about 15 feet from the Pentagon. Wallace looked up and saw the gleam of a silver jetliner. But it was flying too low. Maybe less than 25 feet off the ground. "I yelled to Mark, 'Let's go!'" He bolted to the right and a second later felt the searing heat of the blast behind him. He hit the ground and rolled under a parked van as a fireball engulfed his fire truck, then blew through the nearby firehouse. So Wallace switched on the truck's radio. "Foam 61 to Fort Myer," he said. "We have had a commercial carrier crash into the west side of the Pentagon at the heliport, Washington Boulevard side. The crew is OK. The airplane was a 757 Boeing or a 320 Airbus." Mike Walters "I looked off, I was, you know I looked out my window. I saw this plane, a jet, American Airlines jet coming, and I thought this doesn't add up. It's really low. I mean, it was like a cruise missile with wings, went right there and slammed right into the Pentagon, a huge explosion, a great ball of fire. Smoke started billowing out and then it was just chaos on the highway as people either tried to move around the traffic and go down either forward or backwards." - CNN (03/07/02) Keith Wheelhouse "Her brother, Wheelhouse, of Virginia Beach, spotted the planes first. The second plane looked similar to a C- 130 transport plane, he said. He believes it flew directly above the American Airlines jet, as if to prevent two planes from appearing on radar while at the same time guiding the jet toward the Pentagon. As the hijacked jet started its descent, "it's like it stepped on its gas pedal," Wheelhouse said. "As soon as he did that, the second plane banked off to the west." Wheelhouse's account of a second plane is unlike everything else that has been reported about the attack. Some initial reports on television said a second airliner might be headed for the Pentagon, but authorities later dismissed that. A Norfolk-based FBI agent interviewed Wheelhouse Wednesday evening. A possible explanation for the second plane could be a plane landing at nearby Ronald Reagan National Airport. The Pentagon is between the cemetery and the airport. But Wheelhouse insists he was not confused by other air traffic. After the attack on the Pentagon, reporters in Washington saw Air Force planes patrolling the skies over the capital. Wheelhouse said it's possible the second plane was a military plane, but the military has not said it had a plane shadowing the hijacked jet." - Daily Press/Newport News (09/14/01) [Reprinted at: http://c ooperativeresearch.org] "FBI spokesmen say they have not heard about it, although both Knowles and Keith Wheelhouse, the Virginia Beach man, were interviewed by FBI agents. A Pentagon official said late Friday no other plane was flying with the jetliner. But he said it was possible a military plane was in the area at the time of the attack. At the same time, Wheelhouse and his sister, Pam Young, who lives in Surry, were preparing to leave a funeral at Arlington National Cemetery, which is less than a mile from the Pentagon, when they watched the jet approach and slam into the Pentagon. Both of them, as well as at least one other person at the funeral, insist that there was another plane flying near the hijacked jet. Wheelhouse said the second plane looked like it may have been a C- 130 transport plane, but the other three witnesses say they're not sure what the plane looked like." - Daily Press/Newport News (09/15/01) [Reprinted at: http://c ooperativeresearch.org] Dave Winslow, AP reporter "I saw the tail of a large airliner ... It ploughed right into the Pentagon." Pam Young - Perhaps more remarkable is her insistence that a second plane was flying near and along the same path as the hijacked jet. - Daily Press/Newport News (09/14/01) [Reprinted at: http://c ooperativeresearch.org] At the same time, Wheelhouse and his sister, Pam Young, who lives in Surry, were preparing to leave a funeral at Arlington National Cemetery, which is less than a mile from the Pentagon, when they watched the jet approach and slam into the Pentagon. Both of them, as well as at least one other person at the funeral, insist that there was another plane flying near the hijacked jet. - Daily Press/Newport News (09/15/01) [Reprinted at: http://c ooperativeresearch.org] Unidentified Witnesses... Air Force senior enlistee (Chris Plant, CNN correspondent) PLANT: Well, and speaking to people here at the Pentagon, as they're being evacuated from the building. I'm told by several people that there was, in fact, an explosion. I was told by one witness, an Air Force enlisted - senior enlisted man, that he was outside when it occurred. He said that he saw a helicopter circle the building. He said it appeared to be a U.S. military helicopter, and that it disappeared behind the building where the helicopter landing zone is - excuse me - and he then saw fireball go into the sky. It's a very tense situation obviously, but initial reports from witnesses indicate that there was in fact a helicopter circling the building, contrary to what the AP reported, according to the witnesses I've spoken to anyway, and that this helicopter disappeared behind the building, and that there was then an explosion. That's about all I have from here. - CNN (09/11/01) Arlington worker - Another Arlington worker who declined to be interviewed in front of the media told a story that the military historians had not heard in the 244 interviews they had conducted through last week. The man said a mysterious second plane was circling the area when the first one attacked the Pentagon. - South Coast Today/Pittsburgh Post- Gazette (12/20/01)
Mark If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers - normally good Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free - Americans who have been lulled into a false security (April 1968).---Ezra Taft Benson, US Secretary of Agriculture 1953-1961 under Eisenhower
Well, have at it. Another interesting bit is the 530mph was given to the gov/public reports to cover the deep penetration of the inner rings, but if the boxes say 345mph, how was the damage done? Then if 345mph is true, there should be WAY more airliner debris and it wouldn't have turned to "liquid". If the plane turned fluid, how would the dna survive? I leaning toward an airliner and some type of detonation, shaped charges.
Mark If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers - normally good Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free - Americans who have been lulled into a false security (April 1968).---Ezra Taft Benson, US Secretary of Agriculture 1953-1961 under Eisenhower
Jim Hoffman, 911 Research, co-author Waking Up from Our Nightmare, the 9/11/01 Crimes in New York City http://911research.com/essays/pentagon/ video.ht ml Video of the Pentagon Attack: What is the Government Hiding? by Jim Hoffman Version 0.9, May 16, 2006 ... saying there is not proof that a plane hit the Pentagon ... necessarily implies the following: That the scores of accounts of a large plane are either faked or coerced. That the damage to the Pentagon, including an approximately 100-foot-wide expanse of punctured facade walls on the first floor, were somehow produced by a means other than a plane. That fires that smelled like burning jet fuel, running about 200 feet across the facade of the Pentagon, were produced by some other means, or the photographs were faked. That the swath of downed lamp-poles the width of a 757's wing span were sliced and knocked over by some other means, and that smashed objects lying in the paths of the engines were damaged by some other means. That the identification of human remains of the crew and passengers of Flight 77 was fraudulent. That the Flight 77 with its crew and passengers were disposed of elsewhere, and their fate remains unknown. To believe that the Pentagon was not hit by Flight 77 requires one to accept points 5 and 6. To believe that no plane hit the Pentagon, one has to accept all six points. Such a belief isn't consistent with a rational analysis of the evidence. Jim Hoffman http:// (wtc7.net, http://911review.c om, http://911resear ch.com) observes that the nonsense injected into the 9/11 truth movement attracts people without critical thinking skills, who then alienates logically thinking people from being associated with it. It's a brilliant strategy of disruption. "What could be more effective [for the perpetrators] than to recruit people into the 9/11 truth movement who are self-motivated to proselytize with nonsense? - Jim Hoffman I think if not for the success of the Pentagon no-plane and South Tower pod-plane memes in marginalizing 9/11 truth in 2004, we could be in an entirely different position now. - Jim Hoffman There are several other examples of actions by authorities that I think are calculated to function in the same way as bait for the skeptics: The first frame of the 5 leaked (and forged) Pentagon CCTV frames that shows the small plane hidden behind the post; baiting people to think "Look! they're trying to hide that it was a small plane". Rumsfeld's reference to "the missile" that damaged the Pentagon; leading people to think it was an inadvertant admission by him of knowledge that the attack involved a missile. The refusal of authorities to provide proof of the identities of the planes that crashed at the three sites, such as identifying part numbers from aircraft debris; exploiting peoples' tendency to confuse lack of proof with evidence to the contrary. The destruction and suppression of evidence -- a pattern seen throughout the response to the attack -- serves the coverup in two ways: preventing investigators from definitively disproving false elements of the official story. luring investigators into thinking that true elements of the official story are false. ----------------------------------------------- --------------------------------- http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pent agon/ind ex.html The Pentagon Attack: What the Physical Evidence Shows by Jim Hoffman Version 0.9, March 28, 2006 Introduction The theory that the Pentagon was not hit by a Boeing 757 (the kind of plane that Flight 77 was) is promoted by the most widely distributed books, videos, and other media challenging the official account of the 9/11 attack. The no-Boeing theory forms the central thesis of Thierry Meyssan's books L'effroyable Imposture (The Frightening Fraud), and Le Pentagate; is featured by the videos Painful Deceptions, 9/11 In Plane Site, and Loose Change; and is the subject of the Flash animation 9/11 Pentagon Strike. These pieces have been distributed worldwide in quantities reaching into the millions, thanks to a combination of excellent production values, entertaining and captivating styles of presentation, and expert and well-financed marketing. The work of 9/11 researchers who do not embrace the no-Boeing theory has been eclipsed in every medium except the web. In late 2004 I wrote The Pentagon No-757-Crash Theory: Booby Trap for 9/11 Skeptics. In it, I examined the no-Boeing theory from a several perspectives including analysis of its: psychology history evidentiary support propaganda misinformation That essay presents a cumulative argument against the no-Boeing theory using each of these perspectives. Critics of this essay failed to acknowledge this and instead zeroed in on one or another point to highlight it as if the entire case against the no-Boeing theory hinged on that point. For example, several critics have mis-stated my position as relying exclusively on the accounts of eyewitnesses, ignoring my detailed examination of the 'physical evidence case' for the no- Boeing theory. In this essay I look exclusively at the physical evidence of the Pentagon attack -- post-crash photographs and verifiable information about the building, the Boeing 757- 200 aircraft, and the physics of aircraft crashes based on case studies. In some cases I mention elements of eyewitness accounts, but only to frame my analysis of the what photographs show about the crash. I show that the physical evidence is consistent with the crash of a 757, noting flaws in popular arguments to the contrary. The many eyewitness accounts of the Pentagon attack constitute a rich body of evidence that strongly supports the conclusion that the attack plane was either a Boeing 757 or a very similar aircraft. The physical and eyewitness evidence are thus mutually corroborating, a fact that is obscured by common errors in evaluating the physical evidence. Many researchers have dismissed the body of eyewitness evidence out of hand, primarily for two reasons: Allegations that the body of witness evidence as a whole is plagued by bias, contamination, and unreliability (addressed here) have been widely promoted and have not been effectively countered, apparently because the ponderous volume of the witness reports discourages analysis. Assertions that physical evidence trumps witness evidence in any crime investigation have fostered a reflexive disdain for witness evidence while lending a false sense of infallibility to arguments based on photographs. Factors such as these have contributed to the creation of a false dialectic, which has eyewitness evidence supporting the Boeing theory and physical evidence supporting the no- Boeing theory. By focusing on the physical evidence here, I hope to sidestep that dialectic and clarify what conclusions the physical evidence actually supports. Contents Debris is Consistent with a Jetliner Crash Pentagon Facade Damage Fits a 757 Interior Damage is Consistent with a 757 Crash Damage to Surroundings Fits a 757 Specific Debris Matches a 757 Suppressing Evidence of the Crash Serves the Cover-up ----------------------------------------------- --------------------------------- http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pent agontrap .html The Pentagon No-757-Crash Theory: Booby Trap for 9/11 Skeptics by Jim Hoffman October 7, 2004 The idea that no 757 crashed at the Pentagon is easily the most controversial and divisive issue among researchers of the 9/11/01 attacks. Effectively promoted since early 2002, this idea has enjoyed an increasing acceptance in the 9/11 Truth Movement, despite its blatant incompatibility with the extensive body of eyewitness evidence that a 757-like twin-engine jetliner flew into the Pentagon and exploded. Many researchers have ignored or dismissed this eyewitness evidence in favor of a seemingly overwhelming physical evidence case that no 757 crashed at the Pentagon, based on photographs of the crash site. As I show below, however, each of the pieces evidence adduced in favor of the no-757-crash theory can be reconciled with the crash of a 757. The controversy over this issue has eclipsed the many documented facts linking the 9/11/01 attacks to insiders. Defenders of the official story have seized on this issue as representative of the gullibility and incompetence of 9/11 "conspiracy theorists". [emphasis added] ----------------------------------------------- --------------------------------- http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/ev idence/w itnesses/bart.html eyewitness accounts http://www.911review.com/errors/pen tagon/index.html detailed analyses of how the "no plane" claims are fake http://911review.com/errors/pentagon/ae robatics .html 757 maneuvers http://911review.com/errors/pentagon/wi tnesses. html eyewitnesses http://911review.com/errors/pentagon/no debris.h tml no debris? http://911review.com/errors/pentagon/cr ashdebri s.html crash debris http://911review.com/errors/pentagon/sm allhole. html small impact hole http://911review.com/errors/pentagon/mi ssingwin gs.html missing wings http://911review.com/errors/pentagon/tu rbofans. html turbofans 101 http://911review.com/errors/pentagon/co lumns.ht ml standing columns http://911review.com/errors/pentagon/pu nchout.h tml punchout http://911review.com/errors/pentagon/ob stacles. html obstacles Michael Green (9/11 Research) http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/gree n/compan y.html The Company We Keep by Michael B. Green, Ph.D. Version 1.2, February 15, 2006 "the entire discussion of what hit the Pentagon is a tar baby designed to trap the 911 truth community in useless speculation." Vince Sauve Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 23:30:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: What hit the Pentagon? WHERE the Pentagon was hit (nearly empty sector) is key point From: sf911truthalliance at http://riseup.net Vince Sauve posts: It is quite frustrating that so many non experts (on crashes or explosives) and non scholars argue stridently for some wild theory completely at odds with the principle of Occam's Razor. For those who haven't heard of Occam's Razor and what it means please visit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_Razor Excerpt: Occam's Razor has become a basic perspective for those who follow the scientific method. It is important to note that it is a heuristic argument that does not necessarily give correct answers; it is a loose guide to choosing the scientific hypothesis which (currently) contains the least number of unproved assumptions and is the most likely to be fruitful. Often, several hypotheses are equally "simple" and Occam's Razor does not express any preference in such cases. For example, after a storm you notice that a tree has fallen. Based on the evidence of "a storm" and "a fallen tree" a reasonable hypothesis would be that "the storm blew down the tree" -- a hypothesis that requires only one assumption -- that it was, in fact, a strong wind that knocked over the tree, rather than a meteor or an elephant. The hypothesis that "the tree was knocked over by marauding 200 meter tall space aliens" requires several additional assumptions (concerning the very existence of aliens, their ability and desire to travel interstellar distances and the alien biology that allows them to be 200 meters tall in terrestrial gravity) and is therefore less preferable. Folks, the hole in the Pentagon is big enough for all of the bulky parts of a 757 to crash through--about 15 feet on the second floor and possibly 80 feet on the first floor. There is a photo of metal wrapped around a column and other photos of aircraft debris within the building. Why should they fake this? There was debris of shredded aircraft skin on the front lawn. Why should they plant this material? How could they be sure they wouldn't be seen planting it? The first image of the security camera at the guard shack in all likelihood was digitally manipulated to cause dissension and distraction in our 9-11 skeptics/truth community (one clue was that it had the wrong date attached to it). If someone precut the bolts of the light poles and rigged them to fall over, wouldn't that leave a possibility for the automobile drivers to notice that and report some funny business on this matter? Those who say it was stage-managed to look like a 757 crashed there are just making things more complicated for them to pull it off. Why should they stage-manage the Pentagon crash at all? I think it is most logical that the hijackers, if they were truly even on the aircraft, were hijacked themselves by remote control technology. This is what makes the most sense with the available evidence. People like Eric Hufschmid, who was one of the first to have a big impact on persuading many of us that flight 77 didn't crash into the Pentagon, upon further discovery, have proven to me to be an incompetent researcher. And possibly even worse, he has shown a desire to discredit our work by association. He has shown a real disdain for a democratic republic. He holds himself up as being smarter than most of the public even though all the while he peddles nonsense about the Apollo moon landings as being a hoax. If you don't believe this is the case about Hufschmid just read the junk he has on his web site: http://www. erichufschmid.net Also, if you haven't seen my web page featuring an exchange with Eric over the Apollo business please do so. Be sure to read what he said in his last letter (this reveals his fascist pro military dictatorship leanings): http://home.pacbell.net/skeptica/apollo hoax.htm l I don't mean to give offense to those busy people who are new to this Pentagon research or who just haven't gotten around to a study of what evidence is available and through no fault of their own have been swayed by the presentations of people like Hufschmid. I, at one time, counted myself in that same category. Hufschmid has shown that he has a lot of time available and hence has no excuses for presenting his falsities, even after a couple of us have tried to show him his errors, he hasn't budged. Vince Sauve The New American http://www.thenewamerican.com/tna/2004/08-23- 2004/facts.htm In the information society, bad information drives out good information. The proliferation of misinformation causes the dilution of good, factual information. Valuable information on actual cover-ups, for instance, is discredited when other alleged, but non-factual and misleading, conspiracy theories are given undue currency. In short, bad conspiracy theories discredit all assertions of conspiracy, making for fertile ground in which actual conspiracies thrive. [emphasis added] Mark If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers - normally good Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free - Americans who have been lulled into a false security (April 1968).---Ezra Taft Benson, US Secretary of Agriculture 1953-1961 under Eisenhower
You're on a roll lately Mark. Thanks for all these articles. I'm completely with you on this issue. Sensationlized theories of speculatory evidence could very well be used against the "truth" movement. I am kind of upset with the scholars for 911 truth for pushing this issue so much. Have you seen Who Killed John O'Neil? Great movie with tons of evidence involving $$ trails. Very entertaining as well for someone who has done the research.
"We shall have world government whether or not you like it - by conquest or consent." - International financier and CFR member James Warburg Feb. 7, 1950
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi? noframes;read=73062
The mind once expanded by a new idea never returns to its' original size
People are often bad eyewitnesses. Studies have show this over and over. The power of suggestion easily fills in the vacuum of their minds, and soon they are convinced they saw all kinds of things.
"If there’s another 9/11 or a major war in the Middle-East involving a U.S. attack on Iran, I have no doubt that there will be, the day after or within days an equivalent of a Reichstag fire decree that will involve massive detentions in this country." - Daniel Ellsberg Author, Pentagon Papers Unless it wasn't a plane.
"If there’s another 9/11 or a major war in the Middle-East involving a U.S. attack on Iran, I have no doubt that there will be, the day after or within days an equivalent of a Reichstag fire decree that will involve massive detentions in this country." - Daniel Ellsberg Author, Pentagon Papers flesh and bones vs plane parts Wow, it vaporized most of the plane, but somehow not all the humans?
"If there’s another 9/11 or a major war in the Middle-East involving a U.S. attack on Iran, I have no doubt that there will be, the day after or within days an equivalent of a Reichstag fire decree that will involve massive detentions in this country." - Daniel Ellsberg Author, Pentagon Papers Arlington worker - Another Arlington worker who declined to be interviewed in front of the media told a story that the military historians had not heard in the 244 interviews they had conducted through last week. The man said a mysterious second plane was circling the area when the first one attacked the Pentagon. - South Coast Today/Pittsburgh Post- Gazette (12/20/01) In Rick Siegel's footage of the WTC shown in "9/11 Eyewitness" video, there are helicopters visible just before big explosions of one or both of the towers.
"If there’s another 9/11 or a major war in the Middle-East involving a U.S. attack on Iran, I have no doubt that there will be, the day after or within days an equivalent of a Reichstag fire decree that will involve massive detentions in this country." - Daniel Ellsberg Author, Pentagon Papers FBI agents accompany the remains at all points during transportation. September 12, 2001: Virginia Chief Medical Examiner in ‘Tug of War’ Over Who Should do Autopsies of Pentagon Victims Virginia Chief Medical Examiner Dr. Marcella Fierro, believing that state forensic pathologists have jurisdiction over the Pentagon’s land, reassigns staff from three other regional offices to the Northern Virginia office in order to conduct postmortem examinations on victims of the Pentagon attack. However, following what the Washington Post calls a “behind-the-scenes tug of war,” after FBI and Defense Department officials meet with her they instead opt to conduct forensic and mortuary activities at Defense Department facilities. Fierro requests and later receives a letter from Attorney General John Ashcroft relieving her department of its responsibilities. a “behind-the-scenes tug of war,” after FBI and Defense Department officials meet with her especially interesting.
Thanks for all the info.
Careful, PM is a propaganda outlet run by the Zionists.
"Never has so much military and economic and diplomatic power been used so ineffectively, and if after all of this time, and all of this sacrifice, and all of this support, there is still no end in sight, then I say the time has come for the American people to turn to new leadership not tied to the mistakes and policies of the past." Richard M. Nixon
Where can you get that?
Eric Hufschmid has been shown to be a Zionist mole with connections to Rupert Murdoch. Also, be very careful of this Occam's Razor business, It is a favored tool of the disinformationists. Remember, that compartmentalization is the key to contolling these events to obtain the desired outcome and to keep a lid on security. The reason that not many are coming forward to tell of what they know is because they don't know anything to tell. Take the Manhattan Project as an example. Everything was on a need to know basis. Only the top managers have any idea what is going on with the big picture. Check out this article and what Karl Schwarz has found in his investigation. "Never has so much military and economic and diplomatic power been used so ineffectively, and if after all of this time, and all of this sacrifice, and all of this support, there is still no end in sight, then I say the time has come for the American people to turn to new leadership not tied to the mistakes and policies of the past." Richard M. Nixon
I've got an eyewittness that says you shot Kennedy from the grassy knoll. It doesn't matter that you weren't born yet. A whole lot of reading to prove what most people already know, eyewitness testimony is notoriously UNreliable. Who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes? This whole mess can be cleared up by releasing 1 minute of tape, 12 seconds each from 5 differant cameras. Have you stood at the site? Have you stood at the site? Damn them mooselems can fly.
as well as the ones from the surrounding businesses and the VA DOT. CASE CLOSED
Mark If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers - normally good Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free - Americans who have been lulled into a false security (April 1968).---Ezra Taft Benson, US Secretary of Agriculture 1953-1961 under Eisenhower
Of course they were knocked over by some other means. If 757 wing hit these light polls at 500 MPH then serious damage would have occurred to the wings, so serious that the plane more than likely would have crashed right there. Sorry Jim, I think your analysis of the WTC collapses is very good, but obviously you haven't done your homework on the attack of the Pentagon well enough to analysis it correctly.
God is always good! Yeah I know. I always stay away from this. I do read up on it though. Honestly, I'm by far no expert on 911, but I make time everyday to read, watch, listen and research. I've got a new lead to what the third plane was that was seen around. I'll post it with links soon.
Mark If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers - normally good Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free - Americans who have been lulled into a false security (April 1968).---Ezra Taft Benson, US Secretary of Agriculture 1953-1961 under Eisenhower
There's a lot that we can criticize about Hufschmidt's behavior as of late, but I still think his Painful Deceptions video is damn good.
Here's the problem - The physical evidence says that the case for a plane strike at the Pentagon is bullshit. The pre-event obstacles won't allow the case for any airplane, let alone a 757. Most notable is the lack of suggestion of any forward-moving damage, add the absence of burning jet fuel and the aerodynamic impossibility of a 757 crash. Don't forget that there was a trailer and a tree immediately in front of the Pentagon wall - no suggestion that these were propelled in any direction, consistent with an aircraft impact. The shrapnel evidence on the fire-hall attests to an explosion, the remains and location of the trailer suggest that it contained the only explosive in front of the Pentagon. As a minimum, the trailer should have been pushed into the building - IF - one suspends the laws of aerodynamics and asserts that a ground-level wing strike was possible. Thereafter, go to the wrong color and damage piece of aircraft skin on the Pentagon lawn. Etc. Then, there's the business of the cover-up; that is glaring testimony, by itself.
http://www.wkjo.com/ One Actor, One Room, Seven Characters: 9/11. Traumatized by the September 11th attacks, one man struggles to dismantle official history, at the expense of his sanity and even his life. Grappling with multiple realities - and multiple personalities - he must retreat into his mind in pursuit of the truth. In a fictional film about non-fictional events, there is a place where belief and faith will blind you, where nothing is sacred, and to get there all you have to do is ask: "Who Killed John O'Neill?" You can stream the movie or download on various formats from the official site or view it on google video http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=- 4755449627173127935 (link provided by Itisa1mosttoolate)
"We shall have world government whether or not you like it - by conquest or consent." - International financier and CFR member James Warburg Feb. 7, 1950
I have this dvd. It connects the people/paper trail very well. Be on the lookout for a new dvd called "Press For Truth" based on Paul Thompsons timeline. There is another I need to get its called I think, "Everybodys Gotta Learn Sometime". Another that covers more of the paper trail.
Mark If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers - normally good Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free - Americans who have been lulled into a false security (April 1968).---Ezra Taft Benson, US Secretary of Agriculture 1953-1961 under Eisenhower
2 or 3 years ago, Eric put out some great info. The book that goes along with his video, is amazing. Photos, diagrams etc.. It is worth buying. Great stuff. With that said, he has slid into mental maddness. Eric, Smith and their 3 ring circus is to be avoided. Everything their doing is harmful to the 911 truth movement, but like I said in another post, just because at this time I don't agree with his tactics, I'm not going to discount his earlier research.
Mark If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers - normally good Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free - Americans who have been lulled into a false security (April 1968).---Ezra Taft Benson, US Secretary of Agriculture 1953-1961 under Eisenhower
Just putting it out there for reading. It lets one know where some stand and gives a backround when soe debate topics come up.
Mark If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers - normally good Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free - Americans who have been lulled into a false security (April 1968).---Ezra Taft Benson, US Secretary of Agriculture 1953-1961 under Eisenhower
The vast amount of contradictions is what attracts so many to this event.
Mark If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers - normally good Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free - Americans who have been lulled into a false security (April 1968).---Ezra Taft Benson, US Secretary of Agriculture 1953-1961 under Eisenhower
His Painful Deceptions book and tape were overall good. His mixing of the Kennedy assasination degraded it, a bit. Still. he did a good job of making people think for themselves. Sad what's happened since the last edition. In the beginning, I tried to coordinate efforts with him, but that was an inhstant fizzle.
http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/evidence/bodies.html
#2. To: All, *9-11* (#0)
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_timeline&startpos=1500#a091101ddc
#3. To: All, *9-11* (#0)
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/context.jsp?item=a112101passengerremains
#4. To: All, *9-11* (#0)
http://killtown.blogspot.com/2005/12/63-versus-11.html
#5. To: All, *9-11* (#0)
http://www.pentagonresearch.com/eye.html
#6. To: All, *9-11* (#0)
http://killtown.911review.org/flight77/inside.html
#7. To: All, *9-11* (#0)
http://killtown.911review.org/flight77/witnesses.html
#8. To: All (#0)
#9. To: All, *9-11* (#0)
http://www.oilempire.us/pentagon-truth.html#hoffman
#10. To: Kamala (#9)
#11. To: Kamala (#0)
#12. To: Kamala (#5)
CONCLUSION: We have several types of planes mentioned, different color schemes, wheels up, wheels down, steep dive, level flight, cartwheeling, hitting the helicopter pad and much more I didn't cover. There are even accounts of people seeing the faces of the passengers and one where they saw it hit a helicopter on the pad. At a speed of 506 feet per second very few people had a chance to see the plane up close for more than a fraction of a second as you can observe in the video.
#13. To: Kamala (#3)
A rescue worker states: “The only way you could tell that an aircraft was inside was that we saw pieces of the nose gear. The devastation was horrific.”
#14. To: Kamala (#4)
But what's even more amazing than these 11 pieces of debris that survived inside the building is that the fact that the remains of 63 of the 64 passengers onboard Flight 77 were said to have survived too. (That's almost six times more than the amount of "plane debris" is seen in photos!)
#15. To: Kamala (#7)
It's a very tense situation obviously, but initial reports from witnesses indicate that there was in fact a helicopter circling the building, contrary to what the AP reported, according to the witnesses I've spoken to anyway, and that this helicopter disappeared behind the building, and that there was then an explosion. That's about all I have from here. - CNN (09/11/01)
#16. To: Kamala (#2)
Officials claimed that the remains of all but one of the people on Flight 77 were identified. Human remains were shipped to the mortuary at Dover Air Force Base and to the DNA Identification Laboratory in Rockville, Maryland for identification by forensic pathologists and anthropologists.
#17. To: Kamala (#9)
#18. To: Kamala (#4)
"In this case, one wing hit the ground; the other was sheared off by the force of the impact with the Pentagon's load-bearing columns, explains Sozen, who specializes in the behavior of concrete buildings. What was left of the plane flowed into the structure in a state closer to a liquid than a solid mass." -Popular Mechanics
#19. To: j.sulli (#10)
Have you seen Who Killed John O'Neil? Great movie with tons of evidence involving $$ trails.
#20. To: Kamala (#9)
(Edited)
#21. To: Kamala (#9)
#22. To: Hmmmmm (#21)
This whole mess can be cleared up by releasing 1 minute of tape, 12 seconds each from 5 different cameras.
#23. To: Itisa1mosttoolate (#11)
Its a FEMA tent. They were installed and carried in. If you grab a wide shot of the Pentagon, you can see where they were and had been set up.
#24. To: Kamala, Jim Hoffman (#9)
Jim Hoffman ~ "That the swath of downed lamp-poles the width of a 757's wing span were sliced and knocked over by some other means,..."
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#25. To: j.sulli (#10)
#26. To: Kamala (#9)
#27. To: Kamala, Christine, Honway, Aristeides, Diana, All (#0)
#28. To: angle, Kamala (#19)
#29. To: j.sulli (#28)
#30. To: christine, All, *9-11* (#26)
#31. To: angle (#17)
#32. To: robin (#14)
#33. To: christine (#26)
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