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Title: THE WACO BEFORE WACO
Source:
Newsmax
URL Source: http://www.newsmax.com/articles/?a=1999/9/22/85323
Published: Sep 22, 1999
Author: Richard Poe
Post Date: 2006-09-16 19:58:34 by Uncle Bill
Keywords: Americans Clap For, Government, Terrorism
Views: 658
Comments: 44
"Not a single official went to prison for murdering my family," Video: Government Helicopter Drops Bomb on Neighborhood Time - "It Looks Just Like a War Zone" Newsmax With the exception of Geraldo Rivera, most Americans seem to have grasped, by now, that responsibility for the Waco massacre goes all the way to the top. Even so, we cannot pin the blame solely on Bill and Hillary. The militarization of U.S. policing has proceeded unchecked through Republican and Democratic administrations alike. Indeed, one of the earliest Waco-like incidents occurred on May 13, 1985, long before Bill Clinton was even a blip on the political radar screen. That day, police emptied 10,000 rounds of ammunition into a house in West Philadelphia, in a ninety-minute period. They fired Uzis, shotguns, M-16s, .50-caliber machineguns, Browning semiautomatic rifles and M- 60 machineguns. A 20mm antitank gun was also on hand, though police claim they never fired it. Later that day, a canvas satchel containing four and a half pounds of C-4 plastic explosive was dropped on the house by helicopter. The ensuing fire consumed not only that house, but sixty others, leaving the neighborhood a smoking ruin. But Police Commissioner Gregore Sambor inadvertently cast doubt on this claim when he testified that the first shots came from automatic weapons. MOVE had no such weapons — only two shotguns, two pistols and one .22-caliber rifle. In any case, all MOVE members in the house were killed that day, except for one woman and one 13-year-old boy. Back in 1986, I attended the trial of Ramona Africa — the lone adult survivor of the MOVE house — and wrote a cover story about the massacre for the East Village Eye. In that article, I suggested that the scorched-earth tactics used against MOVE were a trial balloon, designed to test public reaction to a new style of ultra-violent policing. My theory rested partly on the fact that federal agencies had encouraged and facilitated the MOVE massacre behind the scenes. The FBI, for instance, provided C-4, a military explosive forbidden to civilian police. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms provided permission and tax waivers for other military weapons. Most curious, however, were the "reforms” enacted in the massacre’s wake. Arguing that the slaughter had resulted from random bungling by overzealous cops, Mayor W. Wilson Goode announced a sweeping reorganization supposedly aimed at increasing the professionalism of Philadelphia police. Goode’s proposals ranged from the creation of an elite counter-terrorist strike force, to the establishment of unprecedented liaisons with federal law enforcement agencies, to training for police at military facilities, and even to anti-terrorist schools and "crisis management” training for city officials by the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA). In short, Goode called for more of the very same medicine that had caused the problem in the first place: outside meddling from federal goons. Years later, in 1993, federal "crisis management” once again made headlines, this time in Waco, Texas. Parallels between the MOVE and Waco massacres read like guidelines drawn from the same tactical handbook. In both cases, last-minute offers to negotiate were ignored by lawmen. In both cases, fires were deliberately allowed to burn out of control. Both at Waco and at the MOVE house, people trying to escape the flames were forced back inside by gunfire. "They chose their own end," Powell told reporters on May 1, 1996. MOVE members had doused the roof with flammable liquid, then torched it, Powell said. His claim — which contradicted the findings of the city Fire Marshal and the mayor’s MOVE Commission — evidently did not impress the jury, which awarded Ramona Africa and relatives of two other MOVE victims $1.5 million in damages. If the MOVE bombing really was a trial balloon, it was evidently a successful one. The media accepted the story of bungling, overzealous cops. Public outrage was confined to ineffectual liberal handwringing, much of it centered around the irrelevant fact that the MOVE victims were black. Is Waco another trial balloon? Have the feds upped the ante this time, with a blatant use of Delta Force commandos, a higher body count, and a "whiter” list of victims (about half the Waco dead were Anglo, the other half mostly black, with some Mexicans and Asians)? Very likely. If we fail to challenge this latest atrocity, even ghastlier Wacos may lie ahead. Philadelphia, city officials ordered to pay $1.5 million in MOVE case Philadelphia officials win ruling in MOVE suit A Federal District Court ruled August 28 that Philadelphia's former police and fire commissioner will not have to pay damages to survivors or relatives of a bomb attack, and resulting fire, launched by the city's police against members of the radical group MOVE in May 1985. The fire killed 11 people and destroyed an entire city block, 61 homes in all. In June a jury awarded $1.5 million in punitive damages to Ramona Africa, the only adult MOVE member to survive the attack, and relatives of other group members. The jury also ordered William C. Richmond, the former fire commissioner, and Gregore Sambor, former police commissioner, to pay $1 a week for the next 11 years to Africa and the others. In his ruling, Judge Louis Pollak stated that "there is good reason to think that the senior officialdom of the city ... were hostile to MOVE," but concluded that neither Richmond nor Sambor had acted maliciously or in violation of orders from superiors.
The Waco Before Waco
By Richard Poe
September 22, 1999 
At whom was all this firepower aimed? The targets were four men, three women and six children — members of an anti-government, urban survivalist cult called MOVE. Police say the cultists shot first, after lawmen tried to arrest four of them. 
Even more startling, lawmen in both cases claimed that the cultists had set fire to themselves. In the midst of a civil suit brought by MOVE survivors and relatives, Lt. Frank Powell suddenly anounced that the fire had been deliberately set by MOVE members, not by the bomb he dropped. 
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#1. To: OKCSubmariner (#0)
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horrible...i'd never heard this story before.
Thanks, UB.
Ahhh yes, the City of Brotherly Love.
"If there’s another 9/11 or a major war in the Middle-East involving a U.S. attack on Iran, I have no doubt that there will be, the day after or within days an equivalent of a Reichstag fire decree that will involve massive detentions in this country." - Daniel Ellsberg Author, Pentagon Papers http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/rosnerPage.jhtml Clarke isn't the real family name, but gets a 6 at scale of 10. "The retired four-star army general called Hezbollah 'the reach of Iran toward a Mediterranean beach head." Big points scored. ;)
I was just refreshing my memory about it this morning and if you view some of the photos and videos, it does indeed look like a war zone, and has many similar characteristics of Waco, etc. I was invited by a friend to a Christmas party on base at NAS Whidbey, on Whidbey Island, WA. where he was stationed, I believe in December, 1984. There were hundreds of people there and some very prominent military personnel there also. I was there with several friends, and many officers I knew. It was a great Christmas party and everyone was having a great time. Then, in the blink of an eye, about a dozen FBI personnel showed up. They were the about the biggest set of assholes in one collection as I've ever seen. They were yelling and bragging on how they had just burned Matthews to death, laughing, screaming, etc. They were groping officers wives, threw drinks on the floor which of course broke glass everywhere. One officer was about ready to kill one of them. There was a quick organized effort assembled to persuade them to leave, as they were not invited and everyone there had stomached enough of them within an hour or so. When they finally did leave, the last guy in the group raised his hand and flipped off everyone there and said fu*k you people!
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Ahhh yes, the City of Brotherly Love. Hehehe. Sad, but isn't that the truth!
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On my post above I got sidetracked and forgot to tell you the reason I brought it up in the first place. The FBI agents were bragging about how the FBI dropped a magnesium flare from a helicopter. The flare landed on the roof of the house and burned through it to the room where Matthews had stored his ammunition and explosives. Those ignited, and a roaring, exploding fire ensued that killed Matthews.
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Prime reason for us to have whatever they have. They will not be so bold if every household had a Barrett .50 BMG. ;0)
"Rather than love, than money, than fame, give me truth." Henry David Thoreau
Been stationed there twice with USMC...the Nor'Easter Club? Minus the FBI, sounds like an every Saturday night at the Club. I guess they learned their place in the universe after the Israelis with the explosive residue in the truck walked away with an El Al ticket... Police Seize Rental Truck With TNT Traces http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,52681,00.html
He should swing right alongside Janet Reno and Bill Clinton. I hope we get him before the Hague grabs him for war crimes.
"Rather than love, than money, than fame, give me truth." Henry David Thoreau
Good luck, Sharon had the prosecutors' witnesses bombed a few months before the trial...which never happened. :P G-d Bless the vegetable, is he still "alive" I've heard no official announcement.
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/clark.htm General Wesley Clark From Waco to Yugoslavia: The US military was at Waco
The mind once expanded by a new idea never returns to its' original size
thanks. outstanding.
It all started at WACO http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=19139
The mind once expanded by a new idea never returns to its' original size
Prime reason for us to have whatever they have. Yep, I agree. And so would the founders.
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I heard a rumor that a mock up of the Davidian raid was set up a few months in advance in Israel. The source was Bill Cooper's assests in DC. Historically, I'd say the source is pretty good...he did forcast his own death.
Ah yes, I remember that. I think some woman showed up, flashed some credentials, and said the two men were working for her, they released them, and then they all just "disappeared." Bastards!
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Well that's interesting.
"If there’s another 9/11 or a major war in the Middle-East involving a U.S. attack on Iran, I have no doubt that there will be, the day after or within days an equivalent of a Reichstag fire decree that will involve massive detentions in this country." - Daniel Ellsberg Author, Pentagon Papers Scroll to comment #77
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hmmmmm So Clark's in a little deeper than he first appears.
"If there’s another 9/11 or a major war in the Middle-East involving a U.S. attack on Iran, I have no doubt that there will be, the day after or within days an equivalent of a Reichstag fire decree that will involve massive detentions in this country." - Daniel Ellsberg Author, Pentagon Papers On a side note, I always found my post #71 interesting. What are the odds?
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The old spinster disapeared too...My former neighbor, who's still around.. His Irsaeli mover acquaintance here in NC sold him a nice living room set for a $250. They do like to talk, as the Jew admitted he was "former IDF intel." Bottom line was his two sons got caught for cocaine traffiking so he had to high tail it back to Israel...but he liked him enough to leave the key to storage unit...a big one, I was there, but obviously, hahaha! all the good stuff was gone. Looked like a free-for-all Slum Lord auction in Queens, NY.
Also see Bush administration lawyers protecting Hillary, GRATIS
The mind once expanded by a new idea never returns to its' original size
Hehehe. Yep. I can still remember RLK's comments on the FR thread. It was something like Bush can go to hell for this or something like that. LOL!
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WACO: The Rules Of Engagement - Part 1 Press 1 for English, Press 2 for English, Press 3 for deportation
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#2. To: Uncle Bill (#0)
The fire killed 11 people and destroyed an entire city block, 61 homes in all.
#3. To: christine (#2)
This was when you guys were sleeping blissfully in the SoCal.
#4. To: Uncle Bill (#1)
#5. To: Uncle Bill (#0)
Philadelphia
#6. To: christine, Uncle Bill (#2)
(Edited)
A central Waco figure, Wesley Clark...Israel rates them as POTUS candidates...
“Yes, but is this good for Jews?"
#7. To: christine (#2)
#8. To: robin (#5)
#9. To: christine (#2)
#10. To: Uncle Bill (#0)
That day, police emptied 10,000 rounds of ammunition into a house in West Philadelphia, in a ninety-minute period. They fired Uzis, shotguns, M-16s, .50-caliber machineguns, Browning semiautomatic rifles and M- 60 machineguns. A 20mm antitank gun was also on hand, though police claim they never fired it.
#11. To: Uncle Bill (#7)
(Edited)
NAS Whidbey, on Whidbey Island, WA.
“Yes, but is this good for Jews?"
#12. To: Eoghan (#6)
A central Waco figure, Wesley Clark
#13. To: BTP Holdings (#12)
Hague grabs him for war crimes.
“Yes, but is this good for Jews?"
#14. To: Uncle Bill (#1)
#15. To: Itisa1mosttoolate, robin (#14)
“Yes, but is this good for Jews?"
#16. To: Eoghan (#15)
#17. To: BTP Holdings (#10)
#18. To: Itisa1mosttoolate (#16)
“Yes, but is this good for Jews?"
#19. To: Eoghan (#11)
#20. To: Itisa1mosttoolate (#14)
Although Clark never publicly has discussed his role in the attack on the Branch Davidians and did not respond to Insight's requests for an interview to discuss his role at Waco, there are indisputable facts that confirm he had knowledge of the grim plans to bring the standoff to an end.
#21. To: Itisa1mosttoolate, robin (#14)
#22. To: Uncle Bill (#21)
#23. To: robin (#22)
#24. To: Uncle Bill (#19)
they released them, and then they all just "disappeared."
“Yes, but is this good for Jews?"
#25. To: Uncle Bill (#21)
#26. To: Itisa1mosttoolate (#25)
#27. To: christine, ALL (#26)
#28. To: christine (#27)
#29. To: Uncle Bill (#27)
(Edited)
Discovery Channel Announces New Documentary ASSAULT ON WACO - With Exclusive Footage Discovery Channel goes in-depth with the ATF undercover agent who infiltrated the Branch Davidians, the FBI Lead Negotiator at Mount Carmel, federal officials and surviving Davidians for ASSAULT ON WACO, a brand-new documentary premiering Sunday, September 17 at 9 PM ET/PT on the Discovery Channel, revealing exactly how David Koresh was tipped off to an impending raid on his compound. Exclusive footage of Koresh with his children and dramatizations based on extensive interviews and research bring viewers inside the Waco compound to experience life with the influential leader and recreate the FBI82;s psychological intimidation techniques and aggressive efforts before and during the 51-day siege.
http://d http://sc.discovery.com/tvlistings/epis ode.jsp? episode=0&cpi=25212&gid=0&channel=DSC
Tonite there is a "new" Waco special on I think the Discovery Channel. What new "facts" will be "uncovered" I don't know.
Mark
If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers - normally good Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free - Americans who have been lulled into a false security (April 1968).---Ezra Taft Benson, US Secretary of Agriculture 1953-1961 under Eisenhower
#30. To: All (#28)
BTTT
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Death of Habeas Corpus: “Your words are lies, Sir.”
#31. To: Eoghan (#6)
Up pops another rabbi's kid.
Contemplate the mangled bodies of your countrymen, and then say 'what should be the reward of such sacrifices?' Bid us and our posterity bow the knee, supplicate the friendship, plough, sow, and reap, to glut the avarice of the men who have let loose on us the dogs of war to riot in our blood and hunt us from the face of the earth?
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!”
#32. To: christine (#2)
The MOVE group turned their Osage Ave residence into a bunker and broadcast anti govt propaganda all day and all night over loud speakers, and the other residents all of whom were black demanded that the police do something. They were such an unsavory group of blacks that even other blacks couldn't stand them. When arrested and taken to court their leader John Africa and others would say nothing but "AFRICA" in response to questions. They kept goats in the yard and the smell also alienated them from their mostly middle class neighbors. Because the mayor was black he escaped responsibility for ordering the C4 drop, a requirement that would be considered quaint in today's police state. Since the fire many of the owners of the rebuilt homes (there were over 60 destroyed by the fire) have found the reconstruction to be shoddy and substandard. I've been to Osage Ave many times (one of my automatic door customers was nearby Misericordia Hospital) and I'd rather walk through Harlem than to drive through that and other parts of Philadelphia. The tension between police and blacks is always there, and the "FREE MUMIA" supporters aren't too fond of most white folks, either. Mumia Abu-Jamal was also a MOVE member. I had the "pleasure" of visiting Watts in Los Angeles and the black enclaves in Philly where police cruisers dare not go. If the cops so much as drive down the street snipers' bullets will penetrate the cars. In my neighborhood or yours this would result in a SWAT team response, but in these islands of urban blight it would only start wars, so, the simplest solution is to avoid these areas and for the cops to brutalize the rest of law abiding America. Philadelphia's Albert Einstein Hospital (another former customer of mine) simply closed their emergency room (as have other city hospitals) because of their proximity to so many gunshot gangsters without health insurance. Our Jewish brothers and sisters may support the downtrodden blacks in America, but only to a point. When it came to putting their hospital staff at risk to treat victims of gang violence (the ERs would often fill up with opposing gang members and there was the very real possibility of shootouts at the hospital) and the fact that the hospital wouldn't get paid for their heroic lifesaving efforts, well, the result was closed ERs while the media spotlight was shone elsewhere, doubtlessly on the racism of some Southerners someplace.
#33. To: noone222 (#31)
good thread bump
“Yes, but is this good for Jews?"
#34. To: Uncle Bill (#30)
Bump to a another good thread!
Ron Paul for President
#35. To: robin. good thread (#34)
#36. To: Uncle Bill (#0)
bttt
Galatians 3:29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
#37. To: Red Jones (#36)
BTTT
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Death of Habeas Corpus: “Your words are lies, Sir.”
#38. To: Uncle Bill (#37)
BUMP
#39. To: Uncle Bill (#0)
Great to cybersee you, Uncle Bill.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
#40. To: Uncle Bill (#23)
They pulled that thread for some reason. It musta been critical of the chimp.
Tagline space for rent.
#41. To: Critter (#40)
It looks like they stuck it in the archives so few would ever see it.
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Death of Habeas Corpus: “Your words are lies, Sir.”
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