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Title: FBI Agent Posed as White Supremicist for 14 Years (Tied to OKC Bombing)
Source:
Associated Press via APFN
URL Source: http://disc.server.com/discussion.c ... 49495;article=80973;title=APFN
Published: Jun 5, 1999
Author: Wendy Nakamura
Post Date: 2005-04-15 00:35:41 by OKCSubmariner
Keywords: Supremicist, Bombing), Agent
Views: 2134
Comments: 207
FBI Agent Penetrated Into The Heart of Darkness WASHINGTON DC (AP) - For almost fourteen years, he lived in a world of hatred, bigotry, and violence. He attended Klan rallies and meetings of buttoned-down intellectual racists in business suits in the most upmarket hotels. He met and hosted Holocaust deniers like German- Canadian Ernst Zundel and British author David Irving. He was there at cross-burnings and street marches, waving a picket sign or a Confederate battle flag and always shouting the loudest of any among his White supremacist cohorts. He drank beer with Skinhead gangs, swapped jokes with them about African-Americans, Hispanics, and Jews, and heard them plot hate crimes and racial assaults. He cruised the Internet, posting racist messages to computer bulletin boards and newsgroups, making contacts with neo-Nazis and nationalist extremists the world over. He infiltrated the inner councils of almost every top hate group in the United States and even in Europe. He even filed a libel suit against another White supremacist who claimed he was an FBI informant. But he was. Last month FBI Special Agent James R. Finchley, a decorated Vietnam veteran and "one of the best and bravest men ever to graduate out of Quantico" according to a former instructor at the world-famous FBI academy who knew him and trained him, came in from the cold at last, after successfully carrying out the longest-running deep-cover infiltration of any criminal or terrorist underworld in the history of American law enforcement. Finchley's fourteen years in the White racist underground produced only a handful of actual prosecutions, but "that wasn't his primary mission," according to the former director of the FBI's Behavioral Science Unit at Quantico, Kenneth M. Lanning. "He was there to listen and learn, and the wealth of information he obtained for us is beyond price." "It is not too much to say that we now know virtually everything there is to know about organized race hatred in this country. These guys [White supremacist activists and leaders] couldn't go to the can without us knowing about it," Lanning said. FBI Director Louis Freeh was not available for comment, but U. S. Attorney General Janet Reno told a reporter, "We usually do not make any public statement on covert operations of this nature until all criminal cases associated with an investigation have been brought to a conclusion, but I will say that Special Agent Finchley displayed uncommon courage, resourcefulness, and initiative in a very complex and often dangerous situation." Finchley's cover was so deep he is reported to have actually married one woman who was involved in a White supremacist group he wanted to penetrate. On that occasion he went to St. Petersburg, Russia to meet and bring to America a Russian woman who was to be the "mail order bride" of a nationally known White supremacist leader who was banned from entering the country because of his views. Finchley was so taken with the woman that he persuaded her to marry him instead, allegedly in order to keep her out of the clutches of the racist leader. Soon afterwards he and his Russian wife amicably divorced and Agent Finchley arranged for her to get a green card and relocate to Florida. Justice Department sources are close-mouthed about many of the details of Finchley's fourteen-year odyssey into the murky underworld of racism and hate. "There are still some loose ends to be tied up, and once this gets out there are going to be some very angry White supremacists out there," said a spokesman for the Department. The source refused to say whether Agent Finchley had been moved into the Witness Protection Program or what measures were being taken to prevent retaliation by Finchley's former comrades in the racist movement. Possibly the most bizarre event of Finchley's long- running undercover operation was when he was accused of having been involved in the Oklahoma City bombing as "John Doe Number Two" by the editor of a racist newsletter who had long suspected Finchley of being a Federal agent. Finchley took an absolutely unprecedented step: he sued the editor for libel and obtained a 110,000 default judgment when the defendant didn't show up in court to try the case. "I don't know if he's been successful in collecting any of the money the judge awarded him," said Lanning.
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#58. To: robin, dakmar (#57)
Keeping on the infiltration/misinformation theme. AM talk radio has become 'Party' radio, as in Republican party. There is no talk associated with it, unless GOP talking points are a consideration. I happened to turn on Limbaugh Monday during a walk. He opened his show talking about his attendance at an event sponsored by the magazine Cigar Aficionado. The proceeds of the funds raised were going to support cancer research. Hello....smoking cigars...and a cancer fund raiser? That's an example how far out of the mainstream this former conservative firebrand has fallen.
badeye made an almost identical statement to me, a few weeks ago. is it possible that the two of you agree on something? there are days when I feel less charitable to simpletons than usual. Your obtuse behavior, I can generally tolerate. Today, however I feel less like explaining my posts in the most elementery of terms.
Posted on 04/15/2005 11:46:56 AM CDT by eastforker Here we go again. Greta will have a special this sunday about the OKC bombing. I sugest all newbies refer to all of OKCSubmariner post's to understand what happened there. I miss OKCSUB
Does it really matter if there are feds posting there? Damn right it can and does matter. Here's why: ..(he was).. always shouting the loudest of any among his White supremacist cohorts. He drank beer with Skinhead gangs, swapped jokes with them about African-Americans, Hispanics, and Jews, and heard them plot hate crimes and racial assaults. He cruised the Internet, posting racist messages to computer bulletin boards and newsgroups,... I wonder what would have happened when and if Gold-Lox, you or Jim Rob had banned Finchley or other Feds like him on message boards and newsgroups like LP or FR when they started shouting and spreading rascist hatred against other posters like me who were crtical of the FBI handling of OKC, 1993 WTC, 9-11 etc? You may have forgotten Neil, but the posters from Consolidated Freeping who posted on FR and LP concocted a fake post to plant on FR and on LP to try to make it look like I was associated with the White Supremicists. honway caught them at it and posted the the proof. Also honway and I detected that the fake posts were assocaited with reporter Jayna Davis and appararently Feds who got a green light back in 2002 after new legislation was passed to allow the Feds to do things (DISRUPT and intentinonaly try to PROVOKE and ENTRAP) on newsgroups previously not allowed by law. If the Feds call dirty names, disrupt posts, smear posters and make up and plant false posts against honest posters they do not like, and then the poster gets provoked and defends himself even within the rules, the honest poster gets banned (or gets a time out) and his information from reliable news sources gets lost in the disruption. What if the honest poster gets unfairly provoked, smeared and falsely discredited by these dishonest Fed posters so not enough people pay attention to his posts or valid news articles he posts? What happens is they attack and provoke the messenger and disrupt so that not enough of the truth gets through to enough people-especially newcommers. This has happened to me and malador and others I know of on LP and especially at FR. Maximum Consumption and sinkspur have taken a pro Fed, FBI line, about stories proving wrongdoing by some in the FBI on LP yet have gotten away with ever imaginable disruption tactic and filthy attacks against me and my wife and others and yet they were still allowed to post on LP and FR for a long time. Fed tax dolars are being used to pay for these dirty tactics and schemes on newsgroups like LP and FR just as surely as it has been proven that Bush ordered many US gov agencies to create and distribute propaganda about his proposals to TV and print media as if they were independent and legitimate when they were not. The Fed bureaucrats under the world government socailsits Bush and Clinton have run AMOK and have no respect for what the Constitution and Bill of Rights say about individual human and civil rights . Check with honway. I am sure Uncle Bill and Fred Mertz will also recall all of this.
See reply #61. Thanks.
ed tax dolars are being used to pay for these dirty tactics and schemes on newsgroups like LP and FR just as surely as it has been proven that Bush ordered many US gov agencies to create and distribute propaganda about his proposals to TV and print media as if they were independent and legitimate when they were not. I wasnt aware that had happened re you on LP.. But I totally agreed w/you .. they use OUR money to post disinformation not only about issues but about individuals.. disgusting. They use the same type verbage .. the same BS ..
It was made publiclly known by BATF agents during the fed trial of BATF inforamtn Carol howe that FBI agent Pete Rickles of Tulsa had tried to get Howe killed to keep her from exposing the Fed undercover operation at Elohim City. It was also revealed that Rickles had tried to set up a number of militia members in OK and around the country and had been keeping a complete data base of militia members. Rickles collaborated with FBI informants and milita leaders John Trochtman of Montana and the head of the OK militia. Rickles OKC FBI agent partner Dan Vogel, tried to lure me into a meeting with all of them in 1996. I immediately and fully informed the Pentagon terror advisor and William Jasper of the operation who recommended that former Marine and Tulsa police oficer Craig Roberts (who had done work for the FBI before) to go in my place. The Feds were really angry because I caught them at their dirty little game. I have never attended a milita meeting anywhere at any time.
Yes, I recall the general nature of the attacks against you, not all the specifics.
Rickles collaborated with FBI informants and milita leaders John Trochtman of Montana and the head of the OK militia. Rickles OKC FBI agent partner Dan Vogel, tried to lure me into a meeting with all of them in 1996. I immediately and fully informed the Pentagon terror advisor and William Jasper of the operation who recommended that former Marine and Tulsa police oficer Craig Roberts (who had done work for the FBI before) to go in my place. The Feds were really angry because I caught them at their dirty little game. I have never attended a milita meeting anywhere at any time. of course if you would've gone innocently they would've used that to discredit you and probably far worse.. sickening I tell ya.
See replies 61 and 64. Thanks.
It may be time to start attending.
LOL...you think the gov't. worries about the likes of Conspira-Kooks like him? Trust me on this, having been around the "patriot movement" for going on 20 years most of us don't even take a LOT of the self-proclaimed conspiracy experts seriously, in fact some of them are more than seriously mental in my experience. They'll throw every ridiculous theory in the book at their pet subjects, hoping something will stick & give them validity, while the REAL truth gets buried in the shitstorm. Sometimes I wonder if THEY aren't the REAL mis-information agent provocateurs...
Trust me on this, having been around the "patriot movement" for going on 20 years most of us don't even take a LOT of the self-proclaimed conspiracy experts seriously, in fact some of them are more than seriously mental in my experience. They'll throw every ridiculous theory in the book at their pet subjects, hoping something will stick & give them validity, while the REAL truth gets buried in the shitstorm. Sometimes I wonder if THEY aren't the REAL mis-information agent provocateurs... Yeah they care or they wouldn't be spending OUR tax $$s to discredit them..
whose side are you on?
I'm familiar with these online sting operations. YOu will doubtlessly recall the case of Charlie Puckett in 2001 I believe it was. Do you have any links to the threads you mentioned?
Do you know what "Op" means? Try operative.
Look at my Post 73.
No, that's my department. We're watching you.
Why should they care about BBS boards when they have the Mass Media completely under there thumb? The person in question here not only has accused me of being a Fed, but also Jayna Davis for cryin-out-loud! LOL And now he claims John Trochtman was collaberating with the FBI! Having spoke with the man several times I can tell you THAT is most certainly a LIE from the pit of HELL... If someone really wanted to defeat the elite and their minions, "patriots" they wouldn't be re-hashing something that is a dead horse over & over again (OKC, Flight 800 etc.) they'd be working towards unifying the "patriot" community towards becoming REAL force to be dealt with on a national level, but no...let's stay focused on peripheral subjects digging out details that a LOT of us in the "patriot" movement knew a couple of months after the incident at the Murrah Building. Yelling at the symptoms all day & night long isn't gonna solve anything...
LOL...I'm so SCARED! If you had a clue about me you'd know I'm so deep in the enemie's lair I'm the last thing they have to watch...THEY know EVERY detail of my life. You should have directed your post to OKC, he's the paranoid here ;-) BTW, isn't it about time for you to get back to clowning around on the TOS bots thread? Duh!
The Southern Mercury website, "southernmercury.com", did not archieve the article. I obtained it back in 2003 and saved it. The link below has a photo of the 2003 magazine issue which features the SPLC article: http://www.giung.net/sm/index.htm
I was just messing with you, but thanks for letting everyone see which buttons to push to make you go all spazmoid.
What makes you think I wasn't messing with you ;-)
It's all in the dossier we have on you.
You got a picture of me on file that looks like this? If not, I'll send you one ;-)
The person in question here not only has accused me of being a Fed, but also Jayna Davis for cryin-out-loud! LOL And now he claims John Trochtman was collaberating with the FBI! Having spoke with the man several times I can tell you THAT is most certainly a LIE from the pit of HELL... When have I written that you are/were a Fed, Taz? What I wrote about Trochtman is absolutely factual and I stand by it-I know about it first hand. You should ask ole John about his testimony before Specter right after the OKC bombing You should ask ole Trochtman about his peddling "The Art of War" to try and suck in people to "take on the FBI" while Troctman sets up a meeting with FBI agent Vogel and Rickles and the head of the OKC militia in June 1996 in Tulsa OK. That meeting setup IS ABSOLUTE FACT. In the case of Jayna Davis, I did not say she was a Fed, I wrote that she was connected to the consolidated Freeping posters that honway caught. honway posted his proof on LP several times. Take the Davis and Freeping issue up with honway if you doubt what he found. You wildly misstate Taz what I and others write-is that intentional disinforamtion or just ignorance on your part?.
On an LP thread I once told you about my background (work with Dr. Eugene Schroder) and my present status as In-House Press in a Federal Court...your response was to ping your list and warn them to the effect that I was probably an agent provocateur or possibly a FED. Do you remember that? I also remember the whole Jayna Davis incident on FR, I was on your ping list at than time, and perhaps you didn't come right-out and say she was a FED, but you certainly intimidated it... And just in case you didn't know, Trochtman didn't have any choice in his meetings with the FEDS...if he didn't show-up to meet with them they would have come & GOT him ;-)
that Taz fellow I think has some things posted here that are very worth reading. But today he's just woke up on the wrong side of the bed. and he's a naysayer today. he just wants to tear ya down today.
TAZ: "On an LP thread I once told you about my background (work with Dr. Eugene Schroder) and my present status as In-House Press in a Federal Court...your response was to ping your list and warn them to the effect that I was probably an agent provocateur or possibly a FED. Do you remember that? " OKCS: No I do not remember it. Do you have me confused with someone else? Did you save the postings so you can double check? TAZ: "I also remember the whole Jayna Davis incident on FR, I was on your ping list at than time, and perhaps you didn't come right-out and say she was a FED, but you certainly intimidated it..." OKCS: Your memory is defective on this. Why don't you contact honway about Davis and Consolidated Freeping as I have suggested to you? Hmm? But at least now you admit that I did not say Davis was a Fed when you wrongly said so in your earlier reply : TAZ: "The person in question here not only has accused me of being a Fed, but also Jayna Davis for cryin-out-loud! LOL" OKCS: Your excuse for Trochman is very lame and weak especially from someone who just said this in your reply #76 : "...I can tell you THAT is most certainly a LIE from the pit of HELL... " This is your lame excuse for Trochtman: TAZ: "And just in case you didn't know, Trochtman didn't have any choice in his meetings with the FEDS...if he didn't show-up to meet with them they would have come & GOT him ;-) " OKCS: That does not justify Trochman trying to entrap others in his meetings with the FBI and he absolutley did. Are you next going to try and claim that Trochtman also had to entrap others because the FBI made him do it?? It seems to me that you just admitted that Trochtman was attending meetings with the FBI. Good grief. You have further strentghened my case about Trochtman!
The Oklahoma City Bombing - Glenn and Kathy Wilburn - Links Time: Wed Jul 16 05:59:08 1997 The Associated Press OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) - Glenn Wilburn, who was so angry over the death of his grandsons in the Oklahoma City bombing and so mistrustful of the official investigation that he forced the opening of a new grand jury probe, died Tuesday. He was 46. Wilburn's death from pancreatic cancer came just a day after the panel began hearing witnesses looking into the possibility there was a larger conspiracy and that federal agents had prior knowledge of the attack. Wilburn's grandsons, 3-year-old Chase and 2-year-old Colton Smith, were killed in the day-care center of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building when it was destroyed by a truck bomb April 19, 1995. ``I believe Glenn to be the 169th victim of the bombing. He was so angry,'' Kathy Wilburn said a few weeks before her husband's death. ``I'm going to have him buried out by Chase and Colton.'' Hours after Wilburn's death, state Rep. Charles Key, who joined in the petition for a new grand jury, went before the panel and gave it a list of potential witnesses. ``It's all for him and people like him, the family members and survivors,'' Key said of Wilburn, an Oklahoma City accountant. ``That's what this is about is people like Glenn Wilburn and Chase and Colton Smith.'' In the two years since the blast, Wilburn had devoted much of his time to investigating alternate theories of the bombing. Using the death of his grandsons as a lever with reluctant witnesses, he talked to several people who claimed to have seen others with Timothy McVeigh before the bombing. He and Key collected about 13,000 signatures that forced the empaneling of the special grand jury, which convened June 30. Although the federal indictment against McVeigh and Terry Nichols alleged they plotted the bombing with ``others unknown,'' federal authorities now doubt a larger conspiracy. And they vehemently deny any prior knowledge. The grand jury is expected to call at least six witnesses this week. The first two witnesses called Monday were men who claim they saw at least one other person with McVeigh the morning of the blast. McVeigh was convicted and condemned to die last month for murder and conspiracy in the bombing. Nichols' trial on the same charges is set to begin Sept. 29. In addition to his wife, Wilburn is survived by two sons and a stepdaughter. AP-NY-07-15-97 1446EDT Send "subscribe snetnews " to majordomo@world.std.com Federal Bombing Instigators "The FBI spent $3 million of your tax money to blow up the World Trade Center." - Joseph Farah The tapes offer a rare glimpse into the sensitive relationship between the confidential informer and the law- enforcement officals with whom he worked. They also reveal for the first time how Federal and police agents instructed him to "pump up" a suspect for information and negotiate a $1 million fee from the Government for his services. Scattered through the hundreds of pages of transcripts are many instances in which the Government agents appear to encourage Mr. Salem to lead the suspects to incriminate themselves. Defense lawyers have long contended that the Government crossed a legal line, instructing Mr. Salem in a fishing expedition that became entrapment. Although the bulk of the transcripts does not appear to show the agents steering Mr. Salem toward improper or illegal conduct, whether they did so finally will be resolved in court. Many New Details Among the details included in the transcripts are the following: *A reference by Mr. Salem to 12 possible bombs and hitherto unmentioned targets, including Grand Central Terminal, the Empire State Building and Times Square. *A New York City police detective working with the F.B.I. told Mr. Salem, who was getting $500 a week from the Government, that if he wanted a $1 million informer's fee, he should press for $1.5 million and then negotiate. *An unusual suggestion that some of the money sought by Mr. Salem was going to be put up by private individuals. *A reference from Mr. Salem, in a conversation with an F.B.I. agent, to an argument between F.B.I. officials over whether Mr. Salem should remain an unidentified informer or surface as a witness to testify at trial. *A major defendant in the World Trade Center trial was tipped off by a neighbor to an elaborate F.B.I. ruse to search the Brooklyn apartment of another suspect, Mahmud Abouhalima, and replace explosives in his apartment with false explosives supplied by the F.B.I. *Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman, a defendant in the second bombing case, was using a fax machine to command anti-Communist Muslim rebels, moving forces from Pakistan to Afghanistan and dealing with a code-named agent from Hamas, the militant Palestinian group, Mr. Salem told the F.B.I. The transcripts cover Mr. Salem's dealings with the suspects and his work for the Government over a period of at least two years, going back to the trial in the killing of Rabbi Meir Kahane. Mr. Salem recorded the conversations with Government agents on his own, without the knowledge or consent of his contacts in the F.B.I., apparently to use as an insurance policy to hold the Government to its promises of money and protection. Some of the most striking passages in the transcripts show Mr. Salem agonizing over what he suggests was the failure of the F.B.I., despite his information, to halt the Feb. 26 bombing of the trade center, in which six people were killed. Although Mr. Salem is not a witness in that case, he was working with the Government at that time. "They told me that 'we want to set this,' " Mr. Salem said, referring to the bomb in a conversation on April 1 with John Anticev, one of the F.B.I. agents he reported to, and sometimes complained to others about. " 'What's the right place to put this?' " Then he added, still speaking to the agent: "You were informed. Everything is ready. The day and the time. Boom. Lock them up and that's that. That's why I feel so bad." Federal officials have acknowledged in the past that they dropped Mr. Salem as an informer sometime before the trade center bombing over what they said was his reluctance to wear a body recorder, as well as other disagreements. They said he never provided detailed information of the attack in advance but that they began using his services again after the bombing and credited him with foiling the related but separate plot to bomb the United Nations, Holland and Lincoln tunnels and the Federal building housing the F.B.I. in Manhattan. The case is expected to come to trial next year, perhaps shortly after the end of the related trial of four men charged with bombing the World Trade Center. As the most important witness, Mr. Salem is expected to be called upon to verify tapes he made of conversations with suspects and testify on his dealings with them. Aid for Defense? By creating the so-called bootleg tapes, Mr. Salem has given ammunition to defense lawyers who argue that he entrapped the 15 defendants charged with conspiring to bomb New York City landmarks. In one instance that shows how Mr. Salem was prompted by Federal agents, Mr. Anticev is quoted as saying, "You know, pump, maybe kind of pump him up a little bit." The agent tells Mr. Salem to stress "the loyalty to his cousin." The target in that instance, Ibrahim A. Elgabrowny, is a cousin of the man who was charged with shooting Mr. Kahane and now a defendant in a plot to bomb New York City targets. In another instance, Mr. Anticev is quoted as instructing Mr. Salem to press to learn whether Mr. Elgabrowny or his associates were hiding explosives. He is quoted as telling Mr. Salem not to worry about being exposed as the source of the information. "We'll just know where stuff exists and where it is," Mr. Anticev is quoted as saying. "And then we'll make our move." "There's no danger, you know," he says later. "We can be sneaky and take our time." Mr. Salem has dropped from sight since the June arrests, and an effort to get in touch with him through the witness protection program of the Federal Marshals Service was rejected. But a member of the defense team said he was spotted within the last month in Manhattan. Mr. Salem, a 43-year-old former Egyptian Army officer and confidant of the radical Egyptian cleric, Mr. Abdel Rahman, surfaced as the Government's mole after a June 24 F.B.I. raid on a Queens garage that the Government said smashed an extremist Muslim plot to blow up the United Nations, Lincoln and Holland tunnels and the Manhattan Federal building housing the F.B.I., and to assassinate Senator Alfonse M. D'Amato and State Assemblyman Dov Hikind, among other targets. The unauthorized tapes came to light immediately after the raid as Mr. Salem hurriedly evacuated his West Side Manhattan apartment and was quickly identified by associates of the sheik and by law-enforcement authorities as the "confidential informant" who had secretly gathered evidence, including many tape-recorded conversations, against those later charged as conspirators in the case. Tapes Left Behind In the belongings Mr. Salem left behind either carelessly or by design were cassettes of the tapes he had secretly recorded with the F.B.I. Because these could shed light on the prosecution's evidence-gathering methods to the point of possible entrapment, defense lawyers convinced Judge Mukasey that they should gain access to this material as well as to Mr. Salem's authorized recordings, turned over earlier. Even before he came in from the cold of his undercover role in June, the burly, bearded Mr. Salem was an enigmatic figure, a private investigator who supported himself as a jewelry designer, a security guard for the sheik who freely gave interviews to news reporters. Officials in Cairo say he entered the Egyptian Army as a private and during an 18-year career fought in the 1973 war with Israel and was "pensioned out" as a senior officer while continuing a relationship with Egyptian military intelligence. His American wife, from whom he was divorced this year but to whom he is still close, told New York Newsday last week that he had recently sent a set of the bootleg tapes home to Egyptian authorities with a visiting relative. In the United States for about six years, he lived most recently in a fifth-floor suite at the Bretton Hall residence hotel at 2350 Broadway. A news reporter invited to interview him there shortly after the World Trade Center bombing found herself on camera as Mr. Salem insisted videotaping the encounter. He showed her photographs of what he said was his sandbagged bunker in the 1973 war, the reviewing stand where former President Anwar el-Sadat was assassinated in 1981 and his grave site. He also showed pictures of people who had apparently been tortured: a woman with cigarette burns and a man confined in a cage. He said that he prayed at the Abu Bakr mosque in Brooklyn and the al-Salaam mosque in Jersey City, where Sheik Omar often preached, and that he had known the cleric from Egypt. He said he was attracted by Mr. Rahman's aura of power and fearlessness. Remembered as Benefactor Associates in Jersey City said they remembered Mr. Salem as a generous benefactor of the mosques and of the sheik himself. He also collected money for the defense of El Sayyid A. Nosair, an Egyptian contractor charged in the 1990 assassination of the militant Jewish leader, Rabbi Meir Kahane. Mr. Nosair was acquitted of that killing but convicted of related assault and weapons charges. He is also one of the 15 defendants in the bombing conspiracy case. Mr. Salem also had dealings with Mr.. Elgabrowny, a relative of Mr. Nosair for whom Mr. Salem said he helped obtain a pistol permit from the New York City Police Department. Associates and lawyers of some of the defendants said that Mr. Salem appeared rather abruptly on the scene around the time of the Kahane killing and that they now suspect he was sent to infiltrate the circle around Mr. Nosair. Not for commercial use. Solely to be used for the educational purposes of research and open discussion. The account, which is given in the transcript of hundreds of hours of tape recordings Mr. Salem secretly made of his talks with law-enforcement agents, portrays the authorities as in a far better position than previously known to foil the Feb. 26 bombing of New York City's tallest towers. Mr. Salem, a 43-year-old former Egyptian army officer, was used by the Government to penetrate a circle of Muslim extremists now charged in two bombing cases: the World Trade Center attack and a foiled plot to destroy the United Nations, the Hudson River tunnels and other New York City landmarks. He is the crucial witness in the second bombing case, but his work for the Government was erratic, and for months before the trade center blast, he was feuding with the F.B.I. Supervisor 'Messed It Up' After the bombing, he resumed his undercover work. In an undated transcript of a conversation from that period, Mr. Salem recounts a talk he had had earlier with an agent about an unnamed F.B.I. supervisor who, he said, "came and messed it up." "He requested to meet me in the hotel," Mr. Salem says of the supervisor. "He requested to make me to testify and if he didn't push for that, we'll be going building the bomb with a phony powder and grabbing the people who was involved in it. But since you, we didn't do that." The transcript quotes Mr. Salem as saying that he wanted to complain to F.B.I. headquarters in Washington about the bureau's failure to stop the bombing, but was dissuaded by an agent identified as John Anticev. "He said, I don't think that the New York people would like the things out of the New York office to go to Washington, D.C.," Mr. Salem said Mr. Anticev had told him. Another agent, identified as Nancy Floyd, does not dispute Mr. Salem's account, but rather, appears to agree with it, saying of the New York people: "Well, of course not, because they don't want to get their butts chewed." Mary Jo White, who, as the United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York is prosecuting defendants in two related bombing cases, declined yesterday to comment on the Salem allegations or any other aspect of the cases. An investigator close to the case who refused to be identified further said, "We wish he would have saved the world," but called Mr. Salem's claims "figments of his imagination." The transcripts, which are stamped "draft" and compiled from 70 tapes recorded secretly during the last two years by Mr. Salem, were turned over to defense lawyers in the second bombing case by the Government on Tuesday under a judge's order barring lawyers from disseminating them. A large portion of the material was made available to The New York Times. In a letter to Federal Judge Michael B. Mukasey, Andrew C. McCarthy, an assistant United States attorney, said that he had learned of the tapes while debriefing Mr. Salem and that the informer had then voluntarily turned them over. Other Salem tapes and transcripts were being withheld pending Government review, of "security and other issues," Mr. McCarthy said. William M. Kunstler, a defense lawyer in the case, accused the Government this week of improper delay in handing over all the material. The transcripts he had seen, he said, "were filled with all sorts of Government misconduct." But citing the judge's order, he said he could not provide any details. Ms. Floyd seems to commiserate, saying, "hey, I mean it wasn't like you didn't try and I didn't try." In an apparent reference to Mr. Salem's complaints about the supervisor, Agent Floyd adds, "You can't force people to do the right thing." The investigator involved in the case who would not be quoted by name said that Mr. Salem may have been led to believe by the agents that they were blameless for any mistakes. It was a classic agent's tactic, he said, to "blame the boss for all that's bad and take credit for all the good things." In another point in the transcripts, Mr. Salem recounts a conversation he said he had with Mr. Anticev, saying, "I said, 'Guys, now you saw this bomb went off and you both know that we could avoid that.' " At another point, Mr. Salem says, "You get paid, guys, to prevent problems like this from happening." Mr. Salem talks of the plan to substitute harmless powder for explosives during another conversation with agent Floyd. "Do you deny," Mr. Salem says he told the other agent, "your supervisor is the main reason of bombing the World Trade Center?" Mr. Salem said Mr. Anticev did not deny it. "We was handling the case perfectly well until the supervisor came and messed it up, upside down." The transcripts reflect an effort to keep Mr. Salem as an intelligence asset who would not have to go public or testify. A police detective working with the F.B.I., Louis Napoli, assures Mr. Salem in one conversation, "We can give you total immunity towards prosecution, towards, ah, ah, testifying." But he adds: "I still have to tell you that if you're the only game in town in regards to the information," then, he says, "you'll have to testify." Studied for Signs of Illegality The transcripts are being closely studied by lawyers looking for signs that Mr. Salem and the law enforcement officials, in their zeal to gather evidence, may have crossed the legal line into entrapment, a charge that defense counsel have already raised. But the transcripts show that the officials were concerned that by associating with bombing defendants awaiting trial in the Metropolitan Correctional Center, Mr. Salem might have been accused of spying on the defense. In an undated conversation, Mr. Anticev tries to explain the perils. "We're not allowed to have any information regarding that," he tells Mr. Salem. "That could jeopardize, you know, if you go see a lawyer, ah, you know, with the defendant's friend or whatever like that, and you're talking about things we're not suppose to, ah, condone that. We're not supposed to make people do that for us. That's like sacred ground. You can't be privileged, ah, you can't know what's being talked about at all." Mr. Salem seems to bridle. "I, I, I don't think that's right," he says. The agent insists: "Yeah, but that's just a guideline. If that ever happened, ah, you can back and reported on the meeting between, ah, you know, Kunstler and Mohammad A. Elgabrown. Forget about it. I mean a lot of people ah the case can get thrown out. You understand?" The references were to the defense lawyer, Mr. Kunstler, and his client in the second bomb case, Ibrahim A. Elgabrowny. Mr. Salem seems to reluctantly agree. "They want you to have a hand in it," Mr. Anticev goes on, "but they're afraid that when you get that kind of, ah, too deep, like me, it's almost like, especially with all this legal stuff going on right now." If it were just intelligence gathering, the agent says, "You can do anything you want. You could go crazy over there and have a good time. Do you know what I mean? " The agent goes on: "But now that everything is going to court and there is legal stuff and it's just, it's just too hard. It's just too tricky, if, this, you know. And then there's the fact if you come by with the big information, he did this, ah, let me talk about this with the other people again." "O.K.," Mr. Salem says. "All right. O.K." CORRECTION-DATE: October 29, 1993, Friday CORRECTION: An article yesterday about accounts of a plot to build a bomb that was eventually exploded at the World Trade Center referred imprecisely in some copies to what Federal officials knew about the plan before the blast. Transcripts of tapes made secretly by an informant, Emad A. Salem, quote him as saying he warned the Government that a bomb was being built. But the transcripts do not make clear the extent to which the Federal authorities knew that the target was the World Trade Center. "Then he added, still speaking to the agent: "You were informed. Everything is ready. The day and the time. Boom. Lock them up and that's that. That's why I feel so bad." FEDERAL BOMB INSTIGATORS GOVERNMENT TERRORISM - From Ruby Ridge To Waco and Beyond "We are potentially the most dangerous agency in the country,"
Who Bombed The WTC? FBI Bomb Builders Exposed [audio of FBI agent and provocateur Emad Salem] Two cassette tape recordings, obtained by SHADOW reporter Paul DeRienzo of telephone conversations between FBI informant Emad Salem and his Bureau contacts reveal secret U.S. Government complicity in the February 26, 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center in New York City in which six people were killed and more than a thousand were injured.
Click here for long version of the the conversation between FBI Agent John Anticev and Emad Salem
Please see #88 and #89
I don't have the time nor the desire to sift through thousands of posts on FR & LP to find the exact details, I trust my memory. BTW, insinuating that someone's an "agent provocateur" is the same as saying that person is either a FED or working with them, don't play dumb you've been around the game long enough to know the rulez... Moreover concerning Trochman, you know that right after the Murrah bldg. attack there were accusations flying left & right about McVeigh's involvement with the Michigan militia, of which Trochman was a significant leader. His meetings with the FBI were basically interrogations following the OKC bombings & was successful at keeping SEVERAL patriots out of the US Justice System's meatgrinder as a result. If you knew half as much about the OKC demon party as you claim, you would know this - Perhaps you're experiencing a convenient lapse of memory? Give Jayna a call, she can fill you in on the details ;-) Then again, perhaps you furthermore don't know about Trochman's background, how the CIA used & abused his business for Panamanian drug operations, and how he was shocked out of his sheepish sleep, fled the state to Michigan and became part of the "patriot" movement? You miss that little detail as well? While I don't agree with a LOT of Trochman's conclusions around that period (RE: His video "Invasion & Betrayal" where he saw a UN-Run Red Dawn scenario), Trochman mistakenly thought good Christian men in the US would ban together and stop the despotic tyrants, idealistic wishful thinking at best. With that said, my group had a lot of contact and information shared with him & his prior to & following the OKC bombings. WE had ALL the information we needed when we got the seismograph charts from OU in Norman...3 distinct blast waves. Not to mention Brig General Ben Parton's expert analysis that removed any doubts that there were internal shape-charges a few months later. Of course, the Amerikan sheeple weren't interested so the gov't. story flew, as it does 99.9% of the time in the New Surfdom...the Old Republic is dead Pat, get over it. Sitting here arguing over OKC conspiracy scraps at this point would be like good Germans trying to still prove the Nazis blew-up the Reichstag bldg. in 1943...there are much BIGGER things happening at the present moment (much like in 1943) that not only need to be exposed, but the trivial B$ differences that cause Christian Americans to be divided need to be swept aside, before it's too late. I have even less faith in that happening though than what I had in 1999 when I threw in the towel on the "patriot" movement. So go back to your circle-jerk sessions throwing interesting tid bits of conspiratorial info back & forth across the Net, sort of like a virtual Firecamp girls meeting where the participants entertain each other with boogieman stories as they roast marshmellows...The Babylon System is coming to get choo!!!
I made the mistake of coming in here and reading what OKC said about John Trochmann, one of the Montana militia founders/leaders. It's bad enough when we've got the Gov't. spreading disinformation, but I'm getting tired of conspira-kooks defaming real patriots like John, the whole balkanization and divisions of American Christianity into sect-like cults makes me nauseous...I wasted most of the 90s trying to talk to these type of idiots.
TaZ posted on 2005-04-15 19:53:37 ET Reply Trace Private Reply I have not followed every nuance of this "discussion", but I really do not see how the above retort adds quality to the thread, or site. That's just me.
Oh they don't? Then WHY was it mentioned in the article that the agent did exactly that?? Also, in the book Bush's Brain it's documented that apparently they do find forums quite important..According to the documentation, Rove used a forum to discredit and basically destroy one of his 'friends' who he thought crossed him... so what you are saying has no credibility whatsoever.
Iteresting, Zip.
The forum wasnt named but the poster was.. I dont recall the poster's name offhand and I've lent the book to another person ..perhaps aristeides will recall.
he wasn't "monitering" boards. "Also, in the book Bush's Brain it's documented that apparently they do find forums quite important..According to the documentation, Rove used a forum to discredit and basically destroy one of his 'friends' who he thought crossed him. " different matter entirely. do you think it was an ordinary forum?
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#59. To: h-a-l-f-w-i-t-t (#49)
You're not really on these forums to discuss news and things, are you? Are you on them because you enjoy making little passive-aggressive remarks, knowing that it's impossible for you to suffer any physical consequences because the internet creates a safe distance? I can't think of any other reason.
#60. To: OKCSubmariner (#0)
Some fr love for ya:
#61. To: Neil McIver, h-a-l-f-w-i-t-t, continental op, Christine, tom007, Fred Mertz, TommyTheMadArtist, lodwick, Brian S, swarthyguy, Uncle Bill, aristeides, itisa1mosttoolate, robin, Diana, Red Jones, honway, MUDDOG, wakeup, fatidic, Zipporah, CWRWinger, Sparker (#8)
Neil McIver:
#62. To: Jethro Tull (#61)
#63. To: OKCSubmariner (#61)
If the Feds call dirty names, disrupt posts, smear posters and make up and plant false posts against honest posters they do not like, and then the poster gets provoked and defends himself even within the rules, the honest poster gets banned (or gets a time out) and his information from reliable news sources gets lost in the disruption. What if the honest poster gets unfairly provoked, smeared and falsely discredited by these dishonest Fed posters so not enough people pay attention to his posts or valid news articles he posts? What happens is they attack and provoke the messenger and disrupt so that not enough of the truth gets through to enough people-especially newcommers.
#64. To: Neil McIver, h-a-l-f-w-i-t-t, continental op, Christine, tom007, Fred Mertz, TommyTheMadArtist, lodwick, Brian S, swarthyguy, Uncle Bill, itisa1mosttoolate, robin, Diana, Red Jones, honway, wakeup, fatidic, Zipporah, CWRWinger, Sparker, Jethro Tull (#61)
....the SPLC screamed that the "militia movement" counted perhaps 40,000 members, mostly armed, and a majority linked to the Klan.(30) But subsequently Federal investigators found no connection between McVeigh and any militia group
#65. To: OKCSubmariner (#61)
I am sure Uncle Bill and Fred Mertz will also recall all of this.
#66. To: OKCSubmariner (#64)
It was made publiclly known by BATF agents during the fed trial of BATF inforamtn Carol howe that FBI agent Pete Rickles of Tulsa had tried to get Howe killed to keep her from exposing the Fed undercover operation at Elohim City. It was also revealed that Rickles had tried to set up a number of militia members in OK and around the country and had been keeping a complete data base of militia members.
#67. To: Flintlock (#64)
#68. To: OKCSubmariner (#64)
Rickles OKC FBI agent partner Dan Vogel, tried to lure me into a meeting with all of them in 1996. I immediately and fully informed the Pentagon terror advisor and William Jasper of the operation who recommended that former Marine and Tulsa police oficer Craig Roberts (who had done work for the FBI before) to go in my place. The Feds were really angry because I caught them at their dirty little game. I have never attended a milita meeting anywhere at any time.
#69. To: Zipporah (#63)
I wasnt aware that had happened re you on LP.. But I totally agreed w/you .. they use OUR money to post disinformation not only about issues but about individuals.. disgusting. They use the same type verbage .. the same BS .
#70. To: TaZ (#69)
LOL...you think the gov't. worries about the likes of Conspira-Kooks like him?
#71. To: lodwick (#68)
It may be time to start attending.
#72. To: OKCSubmariner (#61)
Check with honway. I am sure Uncle Bill and Fred Mertz will also recall all of this.
#73. To: lodwick (#68)
#74. To: OKCSubmariner (#61)
#75. To: TaZ (#69)
Sometimes I wonder if THEY aren't the REAL mis-information agent provocateurs...
#76. To: Zipporah (#70)
Yeah they care or they wouldn't be spending OUR tax $$s to discredit them..
#77. To: Dakmar (#75)
No, that's my department. We're watching you.
#78. To: robin (#51)
If you have a link, could you copy/paste it?
#79. To: TaZ (#77)
#80. To: Dakmar (#79)
I was just messing with you, but thanks for letting everyone see which buttons to push to make you go all spazmoid.
#81. To: TaZ (#80)
#82. To: Dakmar (#81)
It's all in the dossier we have on you.
#83. To: TaZ, Zipporah, Dakmar, Fred Mertz, honway, Uncle Bill, itisa1mosttoolate, Sparker, robin, Christine, Neil McIver, Flintlock, continental op, h-a-l-f-w-i-t-t, CWRWinger, Red Jones, lodwick (#76)
TAZ:
#84. To: OKCSubmariner (#83)
You wildly misstate Taz what I and others write-is that intentional disinforamtion or just ignorance on your part?
#85. To: OKCSubmariner (#83)
#86. To: TaZ, Zipporah, Dakmar, Fred Mertz, honway, Uncle Bill, itisa1mosttoolate, Sparker, robin, Christine, Neil McIver, Flintlock, continental op, h-a-l-f-w-i-t-t, CWRWinger, Red Jones, lodwick, Zipporah (#84)
#87. To: OKCSubmariner (#64)
by primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA26433
for [address in tool bar]; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 05:56:32 -0700 (MST)
by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id FAA09391; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 05:55:56 -0700 (MST)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 05:55:32 -0700
To: (Recipient list suppressed)
From: Paul Andrew Mitchell [address in tool bar]
Subject: SLS: Man Who Sparked Bomb Probe Dies (fwd) 
Posted by: Finchley@aol.com
The informer at the center of the Government's case in the plot to bomb New York City landmarks had a volatile relationship with his handlers, often quarreling with F.B.I. agents who used him to infiltrate a group of Muslim extremists who have been charged in the plot, according to transcripts of secretly taped conversations.
Transcripts of the hundreds of hours of tapes -- which were recorded by the informer, Emad A. Salem, without the knowledge of the F.B.I. -- were distributed to defense lawyers yesterday. Although Judge Michael B. Mukasey ordered the lawyers to keep them secret, a copy of the transcripts was made available to The New York Times.
"You were informed. Everything is ready. The day and the time. Boom. Lock them up and that's that. That's why I feel so bad." In several instances, the transcripts show Mr. Salem lecturing Federal agents on how to do their jobs, criticizing their surveillance and interview techniques. In one instance, he suggests that they tell a possible source that his phone was tapped, when in fact it was not, and that they confront the man and push him hard for information. "Don't give him a chance to think," Mr. Salem is quoted as saying. "If he will think it's, 'I want my lawyer.' Then bingo, you are gone."
L aw-enforcement officials were told that terrorists were building a bomb that was eventually used to blow up the World Trade Center, and they planned to thwart the plotters by secretly substituting harmless powder for the explosives, an informer said after the blast.
The informer was to have helped the plotters build the bomb and supply the fake powder, but the plan was called off by an F.B.I. supervisor who had other ideas about how the informer, Emad A. Salem, should be used, the informer said.
"Do you deny," Mr. Salem says he told the other agent, "your supervisor is the main reason of bombing the World Trade Center?" Mr. Salem said Mr. Anticev did not deny it. "We was handling the case perfectly well until the supervisor came and messed it up, upside down." The transcripts do not make clear the extent to which Federal authorities knew that there was a plan to bomb the World Trade Center, merely that they knew that a bombing of some sort was being discussed. But Mr. Salem's evident anguish at not being able to thwart the trade center blast is a recurrent theme in the transcripts. In one of the first numbered tapes, Mr. Salem is quoted as telling agent Floyd: "Since the bomb went off I feel terrible. I feel bad. I feel here is people who don't listen."
FBI Director Louis Freeh - testimony before the House Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime on June 5, 1997.
#88. To: Uncle Bill (#87)
Great post. Thanks.
#89. To: All (#88)
#90. To: Zipporah (#27)
I wasnt aware of that .. WTF?
#91. To: OKCSubmariner (#86)
#92. To: Red Jones (#85)
that Taz fellow I think has some things posted here that are very worth reading. But today he's just woke up on the wrong side of the bed. and he's a naysayer today. he just wants to tear ya down today.
#93. To: TaZ, OKCSubmariner (#91)
So go back to your circle-jerk sessions throwing interesting tid bits of conspiratorial info back & forth across the Net, sort of like a virtual Firecamp girls meeting where the participants entertain each other with boogieman stories as they roast marshmellows...The Babylon System is coming to get choo!!!
#94. To: TaZ (#76)
Why should they care about BBS boards when they have the Mass Media completely under there thumb?
#95. To: Zipporah (#94)
Also, in the book Bush's Brain it's documented that apparently they do find forums quite important..According to the documentation, Rove used a forum to discredit and basically destroy one of his 'friends' who he thought crossed him
#96. To: tom007, aristeides (#95)
#97. To: Zipporah (#94)
Then WHY was it mentioned in the article that the agent did exactly that??
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