See other Dead Constitution Articles
Title: Government thugs handcuff children, kill dog during $60 marijuana raid
Source:
Marijuana Policy Project
URL Source: http://www.mpp.org
Published: Sep 28, 2006
Author: Rob Kampia
Post Date: 2006-10-02 17:19:33 by Neil McIver
Ping List: *Marijuana Policy Project* Subscribe to *Marijuana Policy Project*
Keywords: None
Views: 2621
Comments: 194
I want to share with you a recent horrifying example of our government's war on marijuana users. Get ready to be outraged. The following is an excerpt from a September 20 article in the "Times Union" in Albany, New York: "A police strike team raided a woman's Prospect Street apartment and handcuffed her children and killed her dog early Tuesday in a $60 pot bust. The woman called it excessive force and a case of mistaken identity, but officers said they stormed the home for a good reason: One of her sons was selling marijuana there. The Police Department's tactical squad knocked down the front door of the upstairs apartment at 110 Prospect St. and flooded into the apartment shortly after 6 a.m. 'I heard a big boom. My first reaction was to jump out of bed. We were trying to find where our kids were at and all of a sudden we had guns in our faces,' said 40-year-old Anita Woodyear, who rents the second-floor flat. During the ensuing chaos, police handcuffed two of the woman's children, Elijah Bradley, 11, and 12-year-old Victoria Perez, and shot at her dog in the kitchen before killing it in the bathroom, Woodyear said. 'That seems like an awful lot of firepower for marijuana,' said Fred Clark of the Schenectady chapter of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People. 'That's like spending $125,000 for $5.' Woodyear said she suspected police had intended to search a neighboring home, but had the wrong address on the search warrant. Neighbors said they suspect illicit drugs are dealt at other homes on the block. 'No apology, no "sorry about your dog",' she said. But police said they have no reason to apologize. They said they raided the house because Woodyear's 18-year-old son, Israel M. Bradley, sold three plastic bags of marijuana there for $40 on Sept. 15. They allege he sold two other bags of marijuana in the house for $20 on Aug. 28, they said. In addition, police said Bradley was carrying marijuana in the home on Sept. 1. 'We had the absolute right house. We had the absolute right target,' said Assistant Chief Michael Seber." Visit http://ny.mpp.org/site/apps/nl/content2.asp?c=grKMIYPGIqE&b=1773617&ct=2947891 to read the entire article. Who do the police think they're helping by breaking down the front door of a family's home, pointing guns in their faces, murdering their dog, and handcuffing the children? Was this for the good of the children? The mother? The neighborhood? No one wins -- except perhaps for the government thugs who get jacked up on the adrenaline rush that comes from threatening and persecuting others. We have to stop this madness. We have to change the laws so that government thugs no longer have the legal authority to kick in people's doors to find marijuana. If you're as outraged by the above story as I am, please turn your anger into action by helping MPP restore sense to our nation's marijuana policies. Thank you for standing with us in this important fight. Sincerely, Rob Kampia P.S. As I've mentioned in previous alerts, a major philanthropist has committed to match the first $3.5 million that MPP can raise from the rest of the planet in 2006. This means that your donation today will be doubled.
Executive Director
Marijuana Policy Project
Washington, D.C.
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#1. To: Neil McIver (#0)
Stop the insanity.
In addition, police said Bradley was carrying marijuana in the home on Sept. 1. 'We had the absolute right house. We had the absolute right target,' said Assistant Chief Michael Seber." These lying thugs doing this under adminstrative law, in which there is no injured party, is one of the greatest hoaxes perpetrated on people, much similar to the DWI and DUI arrests which is another money making scam.
“The tendency of democracies is, in all things, to mediocrity, since the tastes, knowledge, and principles of the majority form the tribunal of appeal.” James Fenimore Cooper
I have friends who have very wealthy parents. They bought three houses in a row down in the Whiteacker neighborhood and one day, the cops came looking for drugs. They kicked all doors in destroying handmade hardwood pieces that are not replaceable. The husband refused all screams and orders to let go of his two dogs out of fear for their lives up in his bedroom, and when they brutally grabbed up the animals and flung them into on of the vehicles there, they beat him for not complying. His wife was left on the back porch in handcuffs and leg irons in the November chill wearing a thin nightgown for several hours. She also had a bag over her head. This couple was released after this happened and had to get some locksmiths out to the house the next day o make it securely lockable again. The cops destroyed allot of their stuff in the process of serving this warrant. They searched all three houses frantically, and you know what? No drugs. Seems like an informant jealous of them who had somehow felt slighted by them had turned them in. They are now suing the crap out of the city and the neighborhood is still pissed by this two years after the fact. I'm sad this country has become like this, and I definitely do not in anyway shape or form like or trust the police and their masters.
Hell of a story, and it will only get worse; THIS IS WHAT COMES OF LIVING IN THE FEDERAL DISTRICT STATE. And if you do not know what I mean, well, you should by now, because there is no control on this type of behavior in the Federal Zone.
The Talmudic Khazar-Jew dream; Christians killing Muslims and Muslims killing Christians. What could be better than that? Well, Whites killing non-Whites and non-Whites killing Whites, of course.
So just for fun: Did they find any weed - or not??
you know what? as tragic as this is, it's the kind of thing that has to happen a lot more in order for people to get it. most americans have no clue and won't be concerned in the least until they themselves or someone they know/love are targeted. most americans take the attitude that those victimized deserved it for some reason or another.
LAW ENFORCEMENT AGAINST PROHIBITION STOP THIS GESTAPO MADNESS!!!!!
Sweet land of liberty bump
#2. To: Neil McIver (#0)
But police said they have no reason to apologize. They said they raided the house because Woodyear's 18-year-old son, Israel M. Bradley, sold three plastic bags of marijuana there for $40 on Sept. 15. They allege he sold two other bags of marijuana in the house for $20 on Aug. 28, they said.
#3. To: Neil McIver (#0)
(Edited)
#4. To: Neil McIver, lodwick, BTP Holdings, Ferret Mike, angle, mehtable, RickyJ, all (#0)
#5. To: Neil McIver (#0)
#6. To: Ferret Mike, Neil McIver, Jethro Tull, IndieTx (#3)
#7. To: Neil McIver, *LEAP*, JETHRO TULL (#0)
***LEAP***
"I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. Government will lead the American people, and the West in general, into an unbearable hell and choking life.
-- Osama bin Laden
"A prohibition law strikes at the very principles upon which our govt was founded."
- Lincoln
All our liberties are due to men who, when their conscience has compelled them, have broken the laws of the land.
--William K Clifford
#8. To: Ferret Mike (#3)
IF ANYONE KICKS IN MY DOOR, THEY WILL DIE because I will be in fear of my life, since I have done nothing wrong, and will assume any intruder to be invaders whether they yell "police" or not. ALL OF THEM. PERIOD. No more PoliceState. I've drawn my line in the sand and it's what we all need to do.
***LEAP***
"I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. Government will lead the American people, and the West in general, into an unbearable hell and choking life.
-- Osama bin Laden
"A prohibition law strikes at the very principles upon which our govt was founded."
- Lincoln
All our liberties are due to men who, when their conscience has compelled them, have broken the laws of the land.
--William K Clifford
#9. To: IndieTX (#7)
The asses that pose as cops today is scary. These stormtroopers need to be shot. Period.
#10. To: Neil McIver (#0)
Isn't $40 worth of pot like, two joints these days? Back when I was in high school we called one ounce a "lid" and it cost $15. $20 for the rare stuff.
"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities also has the power to make you commit atrocities." — Voltaire (1694-1778)
#11. To: IndieTX (#7)
Thinking back to that article posted a day or so ago wherein the police officer was talking about responding to a MASSIVE amount of alcohol related violent incidents and ZERO where marijuana is involved, here is a headline we.re not likely to see: KNIFE FIGHT BREAKS OUT AT LOCAL POT PARTY. In any case, illegal drugs remain illegal, IMHO, because of the money that is being made by keeping them illegal. Remember Mena, AK.
In 1947, the UN created a perpetual war and named it Israel.
#12. To: Ferret Mike (#3)
Thus far, you appear to have no problems with those private groups that train the cops.
I definitely do not in anyway shape or form like or trust the police and their masters.
The ADL is training the New Gestapo
#13. To: YertleTurtle (#10)
Have you ever heard the term "L7"?
Isn't $40 worth of pot like, two joints these days?
The faster the Aryan Nation mob at Freedom4um are caged and chained, the better off we'll be. I’ll cheering when they are forced to behave. - Aaron
#14. To: YertleTurtle (#10)
And a new Hudson was what, $2,150? Sorry, I couldn't resist.
Back when I was in high school we called one ounce a "lid" and it cost $15.
The faster the Aryan Nation mob at Freedom4um are caged and chained, the better off we'll be. I’ll cheering when they are forced to behave. - Aaron
#15. To: Dakmar (#13)
No, I don't have a clue. And we drove Lasalles, not Hudsons. I had a 1915 REO Speedwagon myself.
Have you ever heard the term "L7"?
"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities also has the power to make you commit atrocities." — Voltaire (1694-1778)
#16. To: Neil McIver (#0)
I had a conversation with my wife last week about when I could say to our kids: "Kids, never trust a cop." We agreed that 13 was about right, maybe even earlier. Old enough to see the dichotomy between what people say and what they do, and old enough to keep their mouths shut.
Who do the police think they're helping by breaking down the front door of a family's home, pointing guns in their faces, murdering their dog, and handcuffing the children? Was this for the good of the children? The mother? The neighborhood?
"GM is not a car company, it's a bank that gives free cars to its customers when they take out a loan."--Magorn.
#17. To: Ferret Mike (#3)
We've all got better odds of winning the "Cop Lottery" than the official one.
They are now suing the crap out of the city and the neighborhood is still pissed by this two years after the fact.
"GM is not a car company, it's a bank that gives free cars to its customers when they take out a loan."--Magorn.
#18. To: christine (#6)
You've been there bump Too true.
you know what? as tragic as this is, it's the kind of thing that has to happen a lot more in order for people to get it. most americans have no clue and won't be concerned in the least until they themselves or someone they know/love are targeted. most americans take the attitude that those victimized deserved it for some reason or another
#19. To: Indrid Cold (#16)
my, how things have changed. what happened to the motto "to protect and serve?" now we have to fear the cops more than some common street thugs.
I had a conversation with my wife last week about when I could say to our kids: "Kids, never trust a cop." We agreed that 13 was about right, maybe even earlier.
#20. To: christine (#19)
Aye, Blossom, that we do. Whenever a (relatively) innocent person gets roughed up, has property siezed or destroyed, the rest of us go whistling past the graveyard. We all have our line in the sand, but we'll be defending that line alone. I have *seriously* thought about selling "government insurance", to replace lost income or damages in case the city, state, or feds decide to screw with you one day.
my, how things have changed. what happened to the motto "to protect and serve?" now we have to fear the cops more than some common street thugs.
"GM is not a car company, it's a bank that gives free cars to its customers when they take out a loan."--Magorn.
#21. To: BTP Holdings (#2)
And speaking of scams--follow me here-- A rational and reasonable action for an American president to take on 09/12 would have been to send the Army, National Guard, and so forth to the borders and lock this country down. Of course, that didn't happen (thus proving, BTW and IHMO, that Bush's concern with Homeland Security was and remains with Israel). The Big Business Elite wants the illegal invasion to continue as it is a source of cheap labor with the Elite reaping the benefits while the America is saddled and mortgaged with the costs thereof. Zionists want the illegal invasion to continue because it destabilizes and fractionates American culture and political consensus. Perhaps another factor?: Locking down the border would also GREATLY and immediately impede the importation of illegal drugs. HHMM.
another money making scam
In 1947, the UN created a perpetual war and named it Israel.
#22. To: Indrid Cold (#16)
The earlier the better. It depends on the child. They also need to be taught that the government is in the business of lies. Kids are taught to trust the wrong people and to mistrust their own families.
I had a conversation with my wife last week about when I could say to our kids: "Kids, never trust a cop."
The ADL is training the New Gestapo
#23. To: christine (#19)
Yesterday I was driving down the highway when I spotted a police car ahead on the left side of the road, and the cop was walking onto the highway waving his arms for me to stop. Turned out he was stopping all traffic to allow a wire, maybe a phone or cable line, to be raised over the highway. But the site of a cop wanting you to stop really gets the heart pumping. Am I "speeding" or committing some other kind of capital crime? It should not be like that.
what happened to the motto "to protect and serve?" now we have to fear the cops more than some common street thugs.
#24. To: AngelSpawn (#22)
Early enough to be useful, late enough so they keep their mouths shut and they don't get taken away by concerned social workers.
The earlier the better. It depends on the child. They also need to be taught that the government is in the business of lies.
"GM is not a car company, it's a bank that gives free cars to its customers when they take out a loan."--Magorn.
#25. To: Neil McIver (#23)
i *know* the feeling.
#26. To: Indrid Cold (#24)
Agreed. That's why I qualified with "depends on the child". Some kids at 10 are more mature than some adults will ever hope to be.
The ADL is training the New Gestapo
#27. To: AngelSpawn (#12) (Edited)
Gee A.Spawn, you don't listen well, do you? The police get training from various groups. I was in a Special Forces Guard unit, and my team sergeant was the head investigator for the Salt lake City D.A.'s office. We also had so many cops in my unit, it is the only time I have seen troopers who take off their BDU jackets to say work during I.G. time and have concealed weapons all over them. I think I know something about what you talk about. I know to at times they get training from someone and don't think much of the person or the training. Which is why I pointed out to you that it is one thing to train, another for the horse who was led to water to drink of it as whomever brought them there like. I also was trained in Phase one of the S.F.Q.C. and had two I.D.F. Majors in the barracks with me at Camp Makall. I particularly liked Major Cohen, and didn't want any truck with the other one. We also had officers from Jordan, Egypt and Saudi Arabia. I have heard much from Cohen about how the I.D.F. does things compared to how he observed the U.S. Army operate, and I just do not get worked up like you do about blocks of training that exist in a system where law enforcement officers receive lots of training of all kinds any more then some of the silly SOPs the I.D.F. use I heard about from the good Major impressed me. Now I realize you are talking here of your pet bogeyman, so enjoy the heck out of yourself vilifying anyone you want. But I have a different viewpoint, O.K? And that is not going to change, because even if the training is very bad in terms of protecting Constitutional rights and in using say profiling techniques I do not believe in, I look at the entire organization being trained and the people in it. I note what is good about a law enforcement agency, and what is bad. I do not have your ax to grind, and I absolutely, positively do not want it either. I don't even dislike you, and really, you don't cause a ripple in my existence, but you should lighten up. Because my 'telling' reaction - as you put it - only exhibits my exasperation with you. I am perfectly willing to be sociable and discuss anything with anyone here. But not if they are going to come at me with an ax to grind and a chip on their damn shoulder. I hope this gives you the reality check you need, because now I have done so twice, this time in far more detail. And it is therefore the last time I cover this territory with you. Now you have a great evening, you hear? ;-)
"Thus far, you appear to have no problems with those private groups that train the cops."
#28. To: Ferret Mike (#27)
So I should just shut up and be tolerant of your differing viewpoint as your beloved ADL and its sibling JINSA helps to brainwash cops about who and who not to bust? Don't count on my silence. The feet of faux progressives like yourself need to be held to the fire as much as the feet of faux conservatives. I note what is good about a law enforcement agency "Law enforcement" is the defintion of tyranny. Peace officers are what exist in a state of Liberty.
I have a different viewpoint, O.K?
The ADL is training the New Gestapo
#29. To: AngelSpawn (#28) (Edited)
ROTFLMFAO! Exactly, they are public servants, and Peace officer works better for me too. I do not like the amount of people who are incarcerated, not the use of the Grand Jury system to intimidate and push around political activists. I do not like the tactics they use to stifle and thwart demonstrations and other acts of dissent either. Now as far as "brainwashed" vs. "training," I would prefer them to stick to giving their blocks of training using the standard format of 'task, condition, and standard, as they use much the same BTMS style of training I was taught how to do my teaching in the military with. You overstate yourself here, as "brainwashing," or the use of 'snapping' technique and other ways to change a person's outlook on life and modus of thinking - not to mention how much thinking they do for themselves - is a different thing. And if a law enforcement agency is in the business of molding people after their own image, it is going to be a process longer, more involved and sophisticated then blocks of instruction an out of country entity gives. And as far as your loaded use of the word, "beloved;" you are always invited to stop the fool posturing, Gertrude. I don't "belove" any entity like that. As with anything else, I not the good and bad aspects of any organization from them, to any I have had dealings with, or belonged to. You are a feisty one, aren't you? Thanks for the amusement, tiger, go get them. rah rah rah.
#30. To: richard9151, innieway, Critter, All (#4) (Edited)
It is also what comes of living in a tyranny based on the Law Merchant (UCC) and the Commerce Clause of the U.S. Constitution. Once you sign on the dotted line, for anything, especially a SSN, you are presumed to be a beneficiary of the government program or licensing scheme. I'll make it simple. The government is operating the Treasury account you created when you applied for that SSN. We have a court case which states this but I cannot locate the cite just now. The state operates under a presumption that you, the live man, are the surety for the fiction of law, or juristic person, which they have created for you by and through those applications for birth registration, SSN, drivers license, etc. Since the corporate state is a fiction of law, it cannot communicate with a live man, and this is the same for other fictions. That is why these fictions have attorneys to represent them in court proceedings. If you partake of the commercial world you are in their fictional Babylonian system. We have the solution to this scheme and it is not a silver bullet in and of itself. We know that the common law is a part of it, so we use it and stay out of their administrative law Babylonian jurisdiction. The Habeas Corpus works in the common law. In their fictional corporate state, Bush has just thrown it on the trash heap of history. But the key to the commercial scheme is to take control of your fictional entity, sometimes called the Strawman. And we do that with a filing in the UCC and by placing in that filing a Security Agreement which gives us the Priority over any and all claimants, and also makes us the Secured Party in any and all property which we list in that UCC contract. Not to mention, one of the benefits of this is that we have an Indemnity Bond in that contract which allows us to discharge any debts or claims made against the Strawman in the public sector, which includes public utilities, banks, credit cards and any gov't agency or entity. I've used this process and it works, even with the IRS. All they need, and what we give them, is a paper, a negotiable instrument, which they use to zero the account. The sad part is that they are making these claims in a fraudulent manner. We have no loss in this instance and the debt is assigned back to the original obligor of the currency, the USG. They created the monster, so now let them live with it. A simple way to explain this is since the bankruptcy of the U.S. in 1933 and the confiscation of gold as money of account, they have succeeded in doing something which was never possible under the Apportionment Clause of the U.S. Constitution. They have transferred the national debt to the people by and through the use of Federal Reserve Notes. Limited liability is one of the benefits you are presumed to receive from this system which has been foisted on the people. But, when you use the slave owners note to purchase something, the slave owner still maintains an interest in the property. You have possession and use and that is all. When you register that property, you pledge it to the state and they then use it as collateral to get credit from the bankers to operate. They profit from tricking you into the registration scheme whereby you waive your God-given unalienable rights under the contract. So, next time you get pulled over for speeding, remember that the license and registration gives them subject matter jurisdiction and you are screwed. For an application for a UCC-1 Financing Statement/Security Agreement/Indemnity Bond Click Here. But be aware that the address for me in there is old since I have recently moved. If anyone is really interested in this, please send me a PM and I will give you the new address. Sorry, richard, but, as I see it, what you propose about a constitutional amendment is a distraction and diversion which will waste time and resources in our fight to take back this country and put the rule of law back in the hands of the people. The Federal Districts exist as an overlay, but are only lawful if you enter their jurisdiction. The trick is to stay out of them if at all possible since you have no rights there. But, the U.S. District Courts do exist for a lawful purpose and that is to settle disputes between parties in different states or between citizens and other government entities. What we need to ask ourselves is if we wish to claim to be a 14th Amendment civil rights citizen. There are advantages but then again, there are disadvantages as well. Sometimes we have no choice since the state courts are so utterly corrupt at the lower levels. Not always, but for the most part. As an example, we have a judge here in a nearby county who was asked, "Why is there so much injustice in the courts?" He answered without hesitation, "Because the people allow it." So it goes for all levels of government. "Now more than ever before, the people are responsible for the character of their Congress. If that body be ignorant, reckless, and corrupt, it is because the people tolerate ignorance, recklessness, and corruption. If it be intelligent, brave, and pure, it is because the people demand these high qualities to represent them in the national legislature." James Garfield
THIS IS WHAT COMES OF LIVING IN THE FEDERAL DISTRICT STATE. And if you do not know what I mean, well, you should by now, because there is no control on this type of behavior in the Federal Zone.
“The tendency of democracies is, in all things, to mediocrity, since the tastes, knowledge, and principles of the majority form the tribunal of appeal.” James Fenimore Cooper
#31. To: Ferret Mike, Cynicom, christine, robin, Tauzero, Eoghan, BTP Holdings, jessejane, Lady X (#29)
The ADL is in the business of political indoctrination, which blends with brainwashing in today's LE environment. I suspect that your "teaching in the military" makes you as unable to use critical thinking in this matter as the cops and their ADL/JINSA trainers. And as far as your loaded use of the word, "beloved;" you are always invited to stop the fool posturing, Gertrude. I don't "belove" any entity like that. As you appear incapable of discussing this topic without resorting to outright flames and smears, you'll excuse me if I still don't believe or trust your word. You have yet to be able to answer a simple yes or no question on the matter of the ADL training the agents of tyranny. Note to those flagged: Please see referenced post. It's rather, um, enlightening.
The ADL is training the New Gestapo
#32. To: Ferret Mike, AngelSpawn (#29) (Edited)
Ah, but it is. Most of those who come to the ranks of the police now have previous training in the military. So it is much more extensive than many would be led to believe. Hence, the militarization of out police, which is a very bad sign of the tyranny we are suffering.
And if a law enforcement agency is in the business of molding people after their own image, it is going to be a process longer, more involved and sophisticated then blocks of instruction an out of country entity gives.
“The tendency of democracies is, in all things, to mediocrity, since the tastes, knowledge, and principles of the majority form the tribunal of appeal.” James Fenimore Cooper
#33. To: BTP Holdings (#32)
The military has made great efforts in brainwashing, mind control and such. They'd be like putty in the hands of the ADL and JINSA.
Most of those who come to the ranks of the police now have previous training in the military.
The ADL is training the New Gestapo
#34. To: BTP Holdings, jessejane, wbales, dakmar, richard9151 (#30)
ping to BTP's post above. if i didn't misunderstand, this is some of what i think richard was trying to explain.
#35. To: christine, jessejane (#34)
Thanks Christine... I'm going to mark for later reading... I want to take my time to understand all of this.....
ping to BTP's post above. if i didn't misunderstand, this is some of what i think richard was trying to explain.
"Foreign aid might be defined as a transfer from poor people in rich countries to rich people in poor countries." ~~Douglas Casey - 1992
#36. To: Ferret Mike, AngelSpawn (#29) (Edited)
Once when I was pulled over for the private property tags on my pick up, the trooper said to me, "It looks like you've put a lot of effort into this, but we are told what you are doing is not proper." My question to him was, "Who is telling you that?" I got no answer. To me, it sounds much like the old proverb, "Shit rolls downhill." The word came from "above" or higher up in the chain of command. So, I really don't blame these guys so much since they are continually beaten into the mold which their traitorous superiors wish them to be. But, as with all of the rest of us out here, they have a duty to know the law, ALL OF IT, but they are only trained in enforcement and procedure. And they have failed in that duty to us, which means we must necessarily be well versed in the law ourselves. To not be so versed is a fools errand. One clue, you can bet your ass that it is lawyers, i.e. the Attorney General's office, who are doing the telling way up the line, out of sight to everyone but the top commanders. BTW, the State Police are the military occupation troops and enforcers of the Bankruptcy of 1933. Take a look at the dates of formation of those various agencies and you will see they all were formed in the mid- to late-1930s.
And if a law enforcement agency is in the business of molding people after their own image, it is going to be a process longer, more involved and sophisticated then blocks of instruction an out of country entity gives.
“The tendency of democracies is, in all things, to mediocrity, since the tastes, knowledge, and principles of the majority form the tribunal of appeal.” James Fenimore Cooper
#37. To: BTP Holdings, christine, richard9151 (#30)
Somehow I missed that. I'd like to read the exact wording of Richard's proposed amendment. Where is it?
Sorry, richard, but, as I see it, what you propose about a constitutional amendment
In 1947, the UN created a perpetual war and named it Israel.
#38. To: BTP Holdings (#36)
Did he write you a ticket or was there just a constitutional debate?
Once when I was pulled over for the private property tags on my pick up, the trooper said to me, "It looks like you've put a lot of effort into this, but we are told what you are doing is not proper."
In 1947, the UN created a perpetual war and named it Israel.
#39. To: wbales (#37)
Click on his screen name and see his home page.
Where is it?
“The tendency of democracies is, in all things, to mediocrity, since the tastes, knowledge, and principles of the majority form the tribunal of appeal.” James Fenimore Cooper
#40. To: wbales (#37)
on his homepage
#41. To: BTP Holdings (#36)
Duty to know the law? All of it? What a hoot! Try this sometime: Speak with a judge, or a police officer, or a government worker, or a politician, or a lawyer, or anyone else for that matter and simply ask them how many laws there are on the books. They can't tell you. Nobody can. "Ignorance of the law is no excuse" the jackbooted thugs will mindlessly parrot, but not one of them can tell you how many laws are on the books that you have no right to be ignorant of.
But, as with all of the rest of us out here, they have a duty to know the law, ALL OF IT, but they are only trained in enforcement and procedure. And they have failed in that duty to us, which means we must necessarily be well versed in the law ourselves. To not be so versed is a fools errand.
 | Gold and silver are real money, paper is but a promise. |
#42. To: wbales (#38) (Edited)
Oh, he wrote tickets alright. But, on the 2nd visit to the court, I had the chance to talk with the prosecutor. He told me "The Dept. of Revenue has no record your pickup has ever been registered." I told him that was interesting especially since I had bought the truck from someone in the state. and that I had it registered at one time besides the party I had bought it from having it registered. So, I gave him copies of all my paper work and said, "I'm sure they have a record in the archives, but I'll bet you did not ask them to look there, only in the computer database. My paper work has removed the registration, so they had no choice but to remove the record from the database. And I am certain that the Director of Revenue has a file on me in her office since it was with her that I had exchanged correspondence." When he realized I was onto something (which was leading to a 5th Amendment taking) he simply said, "I'll just dismiss this and we can save us both more time and expense." He was a smart man. ;0)
Did he write you a ticket or was there just a constitutional debate?
“The tendency of democracies is, in all things, to mediocrity, since the tastes, knowledge, and principles of the majority form the tribunal of appeal.” James Fenimore Cooper
#43. To: BTP Holdings, christine (#39)
OK. I decided to ignore this: These states are foreign governments with respect to the United States. They are also referred to as "foreign countries" in 28 U.S.C. §297 and 26 CFR §1.911- 2(h) and "foreign states" in 28 U.S.C. §1603. which is patently WRONG and get to this: Constitution of the United States Article 1, Section 8, Clause 17; 17. To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such district (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dock-yards, and other needful buildings: And, The new Article 1, Section 8, Clause 17 shall read; 17. To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such district (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, SUBJECT ONLY TO THE RESTRICTIONS OF THE CONSTITUTION, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dock-yards, and other needful buildings: And, So, Richard is proposing to add "SUBJECT ONLY TO THE RESTRICTIONS OF THE CONSTITUTION" to the constitutional clause establishing Washington, DC as the seat of the federal government and giving the federal government authority over its federal military bases, federal parks, lands, and so forth wherever so situate. For one, "SUBJECT ONLY TO THE RESTRICTIONS OF THE CONSTITUTION" seems superfluous. Second, it is arbitrary and vague. What is the intent of adding this language? That federal government controlled lands within the United States are subject to the authority of the US Constitution?? That any and all state law is invalid/inapplicable to and within such areas?? What, exactly and specifically, is attempting to be accomplished by adding this language? This is confusing.
In 1947, the UN created a perpetual war and named it Israel.
#44. To: BTP Holdings (#42)
Justice Department Announces William E. Moschella as New Principal Associate Deputy Attorney General
The faster the Aryan Nation mob at Freedom4um are caged and chained, the better off we'll be. I’ll cheering when they are forced to behave. - Aaron
#45. To: Elliott Jackalope (#41)
"Ignorance of the law is no excuse" the jackbooted thugs will mindlessly parrot, but not one of them can tell you how many laws are on the books that you have no right to be ignorant of. Don't be facetious. Of course they can't. But the cops are bound to obey ALL of the statutes. And you can bet your bippy they regularly violate loads of them, and all because of insufficient training and just plain old ignornace. Much of it is because they are only trained in certain aspects (enforcement and procedure). And it sure don't help that we go along because of our own ignorance and an unwillingness to sacrifice in the least to keep our liberty and freedom. Like that judge here said, there is injustice in the courts "because the people allow it." I caught a cop who arrested me lecturing me on the law and I said to him, "Deputy, are you lecturing me on the law?" He said, "Yes, I am." And I told him, "You may lecture me on enforcement and procedure, but don't ever lecture me on the law." Just so happens his procedure was faulty for the simple reason he did not know the law, not enough of it at any rate to protect my rights as is his duty under the public trust, which is known as a breach of fiducuiary duty. I really do hate the lying scum.
Duty to know the law? All of it? What a hoot! Try this sometime: Speak with a judge, or a police officer, or a government worker, or a politician, or a lawyer, or anyone else for that matter and simply ask them how many laws there are on the books. They can't tell you. Nobody can.
“The tendency of democracies is, in all things, to mediocrity, since the tastes, knowledge, and principles of the majority form the tribunal of appeal.” James Fenimore Cooper
#46. To: AngelSpawn (#31)
I have been a political activist far longer then I was in Special Forces. And my four letter mobilization day code word was "REDS" which was a joke my A team did in all good nature based on my left leaning political stance. You see, they actually liked it, as Special Forces is different then the "warrior ethos of the Rangers or infantry. My political outlook gave them more tools to use in analyzing a situation and sizing a situation up. Low intensity conflict as I've been taught how to train people in it or conduct operations in a LEC situation does not involve political indoctrination. If you do anything in the way of that in Robin Sage, you get in trouble with the situation with the people playing the indigenous people right off the bat. I am very serious. One class had a Mormon officer given the "Village Elder's drink which was not poisonous, but was definitely alcoholic and obnoxiously horrible to taste. The fool piously started lecturing them about how as a Mormon he did not drink alcohol and the 'villager on the truck nearby started firing up that training team with blanks from a saw. The team had to go into retrograde movement mode and adiós the AO. You are taught to respect those you deal with culturally and politically. Which is EXACTLY why I went Spacial Forces in the first place.
"The ADL is in the business of political indoctrination, which blends with brainwashing in today's LE environment. I suspect that your "teaching in the military" makes you as unable to use critical thinking in this matter as the cops and their ADL/JINSA trainers."
#47. To: AngelSpawn (#31) (Edited)
Well that is your posturing on this. I have been more then nice, and more then fair. You are very arrogant, territorial in regards to this forum and what goes on it, and self righteous to the extreme. And I don't care if you believe me or not, but suffice it to say, I am not in here so many years using my own name because I am in the business of lying to anyone anyplace on the Internet I've been.
"As you appear incapable of discussing this topic without resorting to outright flames and smears, you'll excuse me if I still don't believe or trust your word."
#48. To: wbales, christine (#43)
These states are foreign governments with respect to the United States. They are also referred to as "foreign countries" in 28 U.S.C. §297 and 26 CFR §1.911- 2(h) and "foreign states" in 28 U.S.C. §1603. which is patently WRONG I have not gone to check on those parts of the code. So I cannot say exactly what is in there. But it is a fact that we have two parallel jursidictions, one is for the federal state which encompasses the District of Colombia and all of the territories and other federal posessions, forts, federal buildings, etc. And the other is the jurisdiction for the several states of the union. This is a well founded fact of the law in this nation and there are many court cases which show this to be true. American Jurisprudence would be the place to look for this. For the purposes of distinguishing these two separate jurisdictions, there is a court case which I recall seeing that says specifically that the federal jurisdiction is foreign to that of the several states. Hence, the federal government is foreign to that of the states. The two jurisdictions cannot be mixed. And it is from this that there arises much confusion. The intent of Congress when it passes a law is that the jurisdiction is only for one or the other, or both. Any law which is applied to a jurisdiction to which it cannot be done under this constitutional separation, would be struck down by the courts. The problem is that many of these laws which are misapplied are never challenged in court. Therein lies the problem. And also the dishonest nature of the bureaucracy which does these things. BTW, this jurisdictional issue has been proven by the Congressional Research Bureau time and again. When the word "state" is used in legislation, it does not always have one meaning. The whole law must be read to bring this into context. What is the intent of adding this language? That federal government controlled lands within the United States are subject to the authority of the US Constitution?? That any and all state law is invalid/inapplicable to and within such areas?? What, exactly and specifically, is attempting to be accomplished by adding this language? This is confusing. That is what I thought also. Furthermore, the fact that the constitution and Bill of Rights are a compact between the states (as representatives of the people, who are not a party to that compact) and the federal government are between them only as a guarantee of our rights and the limitations of the federal government as it pertains to the states and the people. See my post #30 above also at the very end where I give my opinion of this.
I decided to ignore this:
For one, "SUBJECT ONLY TO THE RESTRICTIONS OF THE CONSTITUTION" seems superfluous. Second, it is arbitrary and vague.
“The tendency of democracies is, in all things, to mediocrity, since the tastes, knowledge, and principles of the majority form the tribunal of appeal.” James Fenimore Cooper
#49. To: BTP Holdings (#48)
This is a well founded fact of the law in this nation and there are many court cases which show this to be true. American Jurisprudence would be the place to look for this. For the purposes of distinguishing these two separate jurisdictions, there is a court case which I recall seeing that says specifically that the federal jurisdiction is foreign to that of the several states. Hence, the federal government is foreign to that of the states. this is my understanding as well, but the feds are more and more blatantly and egregiously ignoring the lines/laws which separate jurisdiction just as it is becoming apparent that there is little to no separation of the three branches of government.
But it is a fact that we have two parallel jursidictions, one is for the federal state which encompasses the District of Colombia and all of the territories and other federal posessions, forts, federal buildings, etc. And the other is the jurisdiction for the several states of the union.
#50. To: christine (#49)
Apathy is the killer. All of this has been going on for some time. It will be up to the minority of the people to force the issue and make things right. “…Our destruction, should it ever come at all, will be from another quarter. From the inattention of the people to their concerns of their government, from their carelessness and negligence.” Daniel Webster
but the feds are more and more blatantly and egregiously ignoring the lines/laws which separate jurisdiction just as it is becoming apparent that there is little to no separation of the three branches of government.
“The tendency of democracies is, in all things, to mediocrity, since the tastes, knowledge, and principles of the majority form the tribunal of appeal.” James Fenimore Cooper
#51. To: Ferret Mike (#46)
I have no doubt that you're well-versed in exopolitics.
Which is EXACTLY why I went Spacial Forces in the first place.
The ADL is training the New Gestapo
#52. To: Ferret Mike, Cynicom (#47)
You've been a font of name calling and you can't even answer a simple yes or no question as it relates to an Israeli spy organization. I am not in here so many years using my own name because I am in the business of lying to anyone anyplace on the Internet I've been. Cyni- Note the English slipping again. Also note that the meaning conveyed is the exact opposite of the meaning intended.
I have been more then nice, and more then fair.
The ADL is training the New Gestapo
#53. To: AngelSpawn (#52)
Heh, what are you inferring? That I don't speakie the English as a first language? And you say I am insulting? You have been nothing but hostile, insulting, and there is not a thing I can ever say that doesn't put a snarl on your little mug every bit as ugly as Cheney's. And as you have an agenda to try to serve, there is nothing it seems I can say to you anytime that doesn't turn into a hot taffy pull in a nudist camp. Later alligator, we done, home spun. You are in incommunicative fuckwit, and that is no insult, just a statement of fact.
"Note the English slipping again. Also note that the meaning conveyed is the exact opposite of the meaning intended."
#54. To: Ferret Mike, AngelSpawn (#47)
Mike... With writing such as this, any discerning person would have their suspicions raised. Your writings in other forums follows you here, namely, your connection to ADL. Normally this would be of no interest to me, however, you most often preach from a pulpit rather than discuss. If you insist on following the ADL anti-American line, it would be honest and incumbent upon you to state exactly your connection with ADL.
And I don't care if you believe me or not, but suffice it to say, I am not in here so many years using my own name because I am in the business of lying to anyone anyplace on the Internet I've been.
#55. To: Ferret Mike (#53)
That you unintentionally speak the truth when you attempt to lie. It's the very mark of corruption. Had you the honesty to either denounce or embrace the ADL in public, you'd get less abuse here. Pick a side and quit riding the shadows. You'll get no respect for cravenness.
what are you inferring?
The ADL is training the New Gestapo "I am not in here so many years using my own name because I am in the business of lying to anyone anyplace on the Internet I've been." Ferret Mike
#56. To: Cynicom (#54)
It's also great sig material. ; )
With writing such as this, any discerning person would have their suspicions raised.
The ADL is training the New Gestapo "I am not in here so many years using my own name because I am in the business of lying to anyone anyplace on the Internet I've been." Ferret Mike
#57. To: Cynicom (#54) (Edited)
I have no stinking connection with them. I merely refuse to be badgered by this jerk into a modus where I am on the stand, and he is a cross examining attorney. As for my posting style, it is what it is and I post to dialog in a way that helps my thought process as well as to enjoy a virtual community. This crap is all about me not going along with AS's opinion of the ADL. My opinion of them is based on having found their website valuable from time to time as a research tool to craft posts answering others in lively discussion. I make no apologies as I don't owe one. And just because this little fella has a bogeyman view of them does not mean I have to as well. I am also being attacked by this person for using 'monitor' instead of lurk in regards to my checking back occasionally to see what Charles Lindberg and others have posted in Storm front's E activism section. Jesus fucking A, Christ on a Popsicle stick, I was a Special Operations Communication Sergeant. I had to take the CEOI, antenna wire, PRC 70, leg key etc etc and hoof it a couple of clicks from the PB to make commo at all hours of the 24 hour day cycle. I also have ham gear and talk in International Morse Code at home now. I MONITOR M-O-N-I-T-O-R the goddamn radio, and do not, absolutely fucking do no apologize because I use that word instead of LURK every time online I can. He is grasping at straws, and being an asshole, As well you should know I am not the only goddamn 52 year old with either outdated slang or jargon, or whose life experience and words I've used in it are different then with others who have just talked this and that on the cute little cell phones I fucking loathe with purple passion, or have spent their entire adult life on the Internet. I am not into this character's polished use of McCarthyism, especially as my name is Michael JOSEPH McCarthy myself. I have had it up to here with this shit. Period.
#58. To: Ferret Mike, Cynicom (#57)
I've never met an intellectually honest person that had any respect for the ADL. Again, it's that element of corruption I mentioned earlier.
And just because this little fella has a bogeyman view of them does not mean I have to as well.
The ADL is training the New Gestapo "I am not in here so many years using my own name because I am in the business of lying to anyone anyplace on the Internet I've been." Ferret Mike
#59. To: Ferret Mike (#57)
Mike... It is difficult if not impossible to reconcile your stated background with being a staunch supporter of an anti-American group such as the ADL. How can one be a member or supporter of ADL and not be anti-American?
I was a Special Operations Communication Sergeant.
#60. To: Cynicom (#59) (Edited)
Staunch? Who said I was a supporter never mind a staunch one? All I said was I admired them for their good work. And all this has been spun by ASpawn because I've enjoyed reading their website, used information on it, and have heard good things about them. I am about as much a 'supporter' of them as I am a supporter of the Washington Post whose site I enjoy going to far more then the ADL's. I don't care if ASpawn likes them or not. I don't automatically adopt the world view others have of an entity like this organization just because they feel the way they do about it. He obviously hungers for an avatar of this bogeyman group of his and has decided I'm 'it.' I am not into playing 'tag, you're it,' 'hide and seek,' 'red light/green light,' or any other damn child's games in here. I view his anti ADL view with a huge amount of skepticism as I hear him spew hatred, loathing and anger all the time, and the vaudeville act of him nailing himself up on a cross is quite maudlin a spectacle that I am not impressed by. You are more then welcome to stop by and see me anytime in Eugene, Oregon. You can also write the Register Guard and get the entire stack of articles with my name in them regarding forest activism to those about the times I was robbed at gunpoint at 7 Eleven too for all I care. I am only exactly who I say I am and the proof of this is absolutely not hidden. I am well known locally, and I don't bother hiding partially because of that, and partially because I have already had ID theft blight my existence, and I have made it impossible to touch me like that anymore. I have been on the Internet a long time, and this little old forum is the only one in my experience I have posted on where some on it turn purple with rage and contempt at the mere mention of the word 'Jew.' Well Cyni, I ain't one of those people, OK? And I am not interested in being one either. I also do not want to work for the ADL anymore then I want to play games that are great for terminally insulting Holocaust victims and families touched by that genocide. You may find this a myopic and shallow view of issues near and dear to your heart, but as people are different with different life experiences and educational backgrounds, you know damn well this is always going to be the case. I find all too many people don't have near enough concern for environmental issues of all kinds, but I don't pick on the ones I feel an easy target for abuse to take my frustrations out on because of that. I have clearly and repeatedly said I listen to what people say in here, and I respect the intentions people have with their messages - especially pet ones - but I do not buy into them without a great deal of thought, research and experience that tells me what they say is true. That is just how it is.
"It is difficult if not impossible to reconcile your stated background with being a staunch supporter of an anti-American group such as the ADL."
#61. To: BTP Holdings, christine (#48)
The two jurisdictions cannot be mixed. And it is from this that there arises much confusion. They can be mixed and are every day--its called concurrent jurisdiction. There is not that much confusion. Whether federal jurisdiction or state jurisdiction attaches and/or which jurisdiction's law takes precedence is generally well settled. The US Constitution is the Supreme Law of the land. The US Supreme Court is the court of last resort in the United States. In some situations, a state Supreme Court is the court of last resort. This all seems to be much ado about nothing. The focus of concerned Americans should be on removing the traitors and idiots, special interests, and a particular foreign country running the American federal government AND geeting government to recognize, enforce and follow laws which are on the books. And, I'll say again: Richard's proposed amendment makes NO sense to me.
Hence, the federal government is foreign to that of the states.
In 1947, the UN created a perpetual war and named it Israel.
#62. To: christine (#49)
And I don't disagree with that. And the federal judiciary has abused and tortured the Commerce Clause in this effort. Perhaps Richard's goals would be served by merely re-affirming the Ninth and Tenth Amendments which were descimated--effectively repealed by military action/violence 1860-1865.
this is my understanding as well, but the feds are more and more blatantly and egregiously ignoring the lines/laws which separate jurisdiction just as it is becoming apparent that there is little to no separation of the three branches of government.
In 1947, the UN created a perpetual war and named it Israel.
#63. To: BTP Holdings (#30)
Love that quote, BTW.
"Now more than ever before, the people are responsible for the character of their Congress. If that body be ignorant, reckless, and corrupt, it is because the people tolerate ignorance, recklessness, and corruption. If it be intelligent, brave, and pure, it is because the people demand these high qualities to represent them in the national legislature." James Garfield
In 1947, the UN created a perpetual war and named it Israel.
#64. To: Ferret Mike (#57)
I've followed your postings for years on forums and have noticed the consistancy with which you present yourself and your ideas. Why someone would try to discredit you is not only offtopic, but is suspect in itself.
#65. To: wbales (#61)
Concurrent means they exist side by side. Generally speaking, they do not mix. But, FEDGOV has been trying to mix them more and more as is shown by the attempts to federalize crimes which should be solely in state jurisdiction. You know what I mean, all of this baloney about hate crimes and other nonsense. But, I was referring also to the two concurrent federal jurisdictions, rather than the state and federal jurisdictions. That is where there is real confusion since the word state is used in both but there are two meanings.
They can be mixed and are every day--its called concurrent jurisdiction. There is not that much confusion. Whether federal jurisdiction or state jurisdiction attaches and/or which jurisdiction's law takes precedence is generally well settled.
“The tendency of democracies is, in all things, to mediocrity, since the tastes, knowledge, and principles of the majority form the tribunal of appeal.” James Fenimore Cooper
#66. To: angle, AngelSpawn, christine (#64)
Thank you for the kind words. I understand why he is engaged in sport of this nature. I was the short, skinny shy type who got bullied in school. I survived because I am stronger and smarter then they were. The serendipity of the experience of dealing with bullies is spoken in that old saw, "If something doesn't kill you, it makes you stronger." I have quite enough tempering, strength both physical and intellectually to handle small fry like AngelSpawn who does his work behind an anonymous account name. He is trying to get me to vent in rage right now. Unfortunately for him, I am wise to the game. I am even appreciative too. You see, he proves definitively that his passion for Jew hating and baiting has more the malicious intent of bullying behind it then intellectual or factual basis. He proves he is only in it to cause grief, not promote social or political justice. I no longer have to give his viewpoint the benefit of doubt, and I won't. ;-)
"I've followed your postings for years on forums and have noticed the consistency with which you present yourself and your ideas. Why someone would try to discredit you is not only off topic, but is suspect in itself."
#67. To: all, Cynicom, AngelSpawn, christine (#59) (Edited)
Michael McCarthy The above is an E mail I sent to Christine today. I feel it beneath my dignity to respond to McCarthyistic accusations that once denied are attacked with even greater fervor and maliciousness when the baiter thinks they have smelled blood. It was sent to her under the auspices as a legal notice, as I do not like the revolting games of accuse then attack the denial when the baiter thinks they have someone on the defensive. I post it here solely at her suggestion. This game is why the alleged question in good faith regarding alleged ADL training of police in this country I ignore is not in good faith. It is why I look down my nose at it. I recognize the game. I have only seen it played a million times over the years online in different forums. And yes, it always amazes me people do this and then act like they invented a new and original game. As for that training, I have no idea whether or not it exists, I do not have a clue what they teach if in fact they do, and furthermore, at this point I don't give a damn what they are doing. I don't know anyone in or associated with the ADL, and I have never gotten any indication they know who I am.
I Michael McCarthy have never engaged in negotiation with, or worked for the ADL in any manner. I have zero knowledge of even the names of a single person in that organization.
#68. To: Ferret Mike, christine, Cynicom (#67)
Your dishonesty is quite glaring.
alleged ADL training of police in this country
The ADL is training the New Gestapo "I am not in here so many years using my own name because I am in the business of lying to anyone anyplace on the Internet I've been." Ferret Mike
#69. To: christine (#68)
I rest my case, here is the response I predicted would come in answer to anything I say. ;-)
#70. To: Ferret Mike (#69)
The ADL's training of jackboots is a fact, not "alleged".
The ADL is training the New Gestapo "I am not in here so many years using my own name because I am in the business of lying to anyone anyplace on the Internet I've been." Ferret Mike
#71. To: AngelSpawn (#70)
I don't care what you allege. It is your problem, go find another mark. I am not playing your silly game.
"The ADL's training of jackboots is a fact, not "alleged"."
#72. To: BTP Holdings, christine, richard9151, Zoroaster, robin, Eoghan, tom007, Jethro Tull, Neil McIver (#65)
So from Richard's PM and the statement above, I garner more enlightenment. There is, according to Richard and BTP as well, two concurrent federal jurisdictions: one up front and out in the open and one, ostensibly, behind the scenes really running the show, extraconstituional, so to speak. First off, I do not necessarily disagree that there is a shadow government: the Big Business Elite and Zionists who are calling the shots. In fact, that is probably the case. However, that such rises to the level of an "official" secondary, parallel federal government, I am dubious. That the enactment of Richard's proposed contitutional language would expose and bring this secondary federal jurisdiction to a halt, I am MUCH more skeptical (laughing is more like it). After all, do you all really think these people would be worried about a change in the constitution's wording: "Well, it's been amended boys, time to close up shop." Oh yeah, the Zionists and thier ass kissing lackeys in the American federal government would be sure to say that. Do you really need reminding of how Bush, et. al., regard the US Constitution?? ACK. ACK. GAG. GAG. No, we don't need no constitutional amendments. We need no more laws. What is needed is an informed citizenry who shall no longer tolerate ignorance, recklessness, and corruption and the influence and control of a small cult centered in Israel over and in Washington, DC. The typical and far too numerous apathetic, un- and mis-informed, lazy, intimidated, stupid, and gullible American is the real problem. That is what needs to fixed. No more voting for anyone with an R or a D attached to thier name--more attending street corner protests--more letters to the editor--more bumper stickers--more blurting out at cocktail parties and backyard BBQs that Israel runs the US and Bush sucks--more calling into radio and TV talk shows--more telling your close friends and relatives that they are braindead MFers if they support Bush, this federal government, and/or Israel, grass roots sort of action, so to speak, again. Well...IMHO.
But, I was referring also to the two concurrent federal jurisdictions, rather than the state and federal jurisdictions. That is where there is real confusion since the word state is used in both but there are two meanings.
In 1947, the UN created a perpetual war and named it Israel.
#73. To: wbales (#72)
bales, I couldn't agree more. *Any* attempt to deal with this system with amendments, motions and legal action is like pissing in the wind. It's gone rogue; a judge doesn't follow law, h/she follows whims. We need snipers, like the dude who put a hole a that black robed thug in Reno.
That the enactment of Richard's proposed contitutional language would expose and bring this secondary federal jurisdiction to a halt, I am MUCH more skeptical (laughing is more like it).
#74. To: wbales (#72)
yahoo! i agree. hehehehehehe. good post, wes.
--more telling your close friends and relatives that they are braindead MFers if they support Bush, this federal government,
#75. To: wbales (#72)
Israel has undue influence, for sure. They even have their own senator, who lost the Dem nomination, but will probably win anyway, and should have after his name (I-Israel). But they don't run our country, they just get away with murder. Sometimes literally. Otherwise, I agree with you 100 percent. Particularly the cocktail party stuff; the Repukes have managed to alter the debate so that if you attack Smirk n Snarl or their handlers, you support the terrorist, you are a bush hater, you hate Merka. These are the opinions of a small minority, but they have managed to intimidate the majority. When you mention that a cabal involving the Supreme Court and the high levels of the GOP stole the 2000 election, you're Sore Loserman. When you point out that the GOP in Florida deliberately excluded legal voters, that even Choicepoint told the GOP that innocent people were caught in their list of felons, you're a conspiracy nut. The main problem here is the so-called liberal press. The people who own the ink are almost 100 percent plutocrat Republicans, and just because most journalists are more or less like me, fiscally conservative but socially very liberal, doesn't mean that they decide what to write or edit their own stories. And the most powerful of those journalists are regularly coopted, sent to the rat warren called DC, where if you write an honest story, you no longer get the juicy gossip, the "get" that shows your boss you have the juice to get exclusive interviews (almost always anonymous and almost always dishonest). The fortunate thing is that this is a self-correcting problem. Judy Miller is now a well-paid outcast, revealed as a government dupe. Bob Woodward, after two sycophantic books, suddenly remembered that the political end of the government is generally a pack of liars, and may have saved his rapidly dwindling reputation. Others are doing public mea culpae, admitting they got seduced or intimidated by a lockstep pack of nazis.
No more voting for anyone with an R or a D attached to thier name--more attending street corner protests--more letters to the editor--more bumper stickers--more blurting out at cocktail parties and backyard BBQs that Israel runs the US and Bush sucks--more calling into radio and TV talk shows--more telling your close friends and relatives that they are braindead MFers if they support Bush, this federal government, and/or Israel, grass roots sort of action, so to speak, again.
#76. To: wbales, christine, All (#72)
This is basically correct. The two federal juridictions occur in how Congress writes legislation. One jurisdiction is the for federal zone and the other is for the several states. The hang up is that federal agencies administer things as if they are one and the same. They are not! This highlights the tyranny of the bureaucracy, and the ignorance and dishonesty of our public servants. Additionally, the extra-constitutional nature of the administrative laws (both state and federal) is based on the part of the constitution which says the right of contract shall not be impaired. Think about that when your drivers license is up for renewal, especially if you are not engaged in commercial activity which requires you to have one. The common law is still in effect, unless you have waived your rights under the contract. Most people have been bamboozled because the banksters have had their lackeys in government arrange things to suit their needs, collecting the debt under the bankruptcy and registering themselves and their property, which gives the state a legal interest. Much more to this than we can cover here and now. The plutocrats (banksters, CFR, Bilderberg, Trilateralists, Zionists and neocons) have been the the power behind the scenes for some time. As for the secondary, parallel government, that is only evident in the CIA black operations, from which the rogue operation which initiated and carried out the events of 9-11-2001 is based. And that could never exist without the money power behind it. The solution lies in awakening the people. We need more extremism to accomplish that task, and if that means some people get a rude awakening by some gruff conversation, better that than if they lose everything when the whole rotten mess goes down the tubes at a later date. Good post, though. Keep on 'em. ;0)
There is, according to Richard and BTP as well, two concurrent federal jurisdictions: one up front and out in the open and one, ostensibly, behind the scenes really running the show, extraconstituional, so to speak.
First off, I do not necessarily disagree that there is a shadow government: the Big Business Elite and Zionists who are calling the shots. In fact, that is probably the case. However, that such rises to the level of an "official" secondary, parallel federal government, I am dubious.
“The tendency of democracies is, in all things, to mediocrity, since the tastes, knowledge, and principles of the majority form the tribunal of appeal.” James Fenimore Cooper
#77. To: wbales, Tausero, BTP Holdings, christine, jessejane, RickyJ, mehtable, Zoroaster, robin, Eoghan, tom007, Jethro Tull, Neil McIver, lodwick, angel, AngelSpawn, , range, all (#72)
THERE ARE NOT TWO CONCURRENT FEDERAL JUISDICTIONS! Why is it so difficult to read and understand? This is from the letter I sent to YOU, wbales; ... that we have in this country substantially or practically two national governments ... THAT STATEMENT WAS MADE BY A FEDERAL SUPREME COURT JUSTICE! Are you going to argue with him? Do you know more than he does? And when did he say that? ONE HUNDRED AND FIVE YEARS AGO IN 1901!!!! I also sent you another law site which is, slightly older.... When is that dated, wbaled? 1819? Ring a bell? ONE HUNDRED AND EIGHTY-SEVEN YEARS AGO!!! Here is Rule No. 1, NOBODY IS VIOLATING THE CONSTITUTION! Here is Rule No. 2, NOBODY IS VIOLATING THE CONSTITUTION! Here is Rule No. 3, NOBODY IS VIOLATING THE CONSTITUTION! Here is Rule No. 4, NOBODY IS VIOLATING THE CONSTITUTION! Here is Rule No. 5, NOBODY IS VIOLATING THE CONSTITUTION! Here is Rule No. 6, NOBODY IS VIOLATING THE CONSTITUTION! Here is Rule No. 7, NOBODY IS VIOLATING THE CONSTITUTION! Here is Rule No. 8, NOBODY IS VIOLATING THE CONSTITUTION! Here is Rule No. 9, NOBODY IS VIOLATING THE CONSTITUTION! Here is Rule No. 10, NOBODY IS VIOLATING THE CONSTITUTION! Do you get it yet? Nobody is violating the Constitution, because they do not have to! From the letter that I sent to YOU; (In Downes v. Bidwell, the Court ruled that "exclusive" meant "without consideration of the Constitutional restraints...") Do you get that? The purpose of the Constitution was to establish a CITY STATE DEMOCRACY on land selected by the Jesuits, and donated by them for the purpose of establing the District of Columbia. There are two other City States in the world; the City, i.e., the City of London financial district which is separate from England and not subject to the legislature of England (Yes, I can prove it), and the Vatican...... see any possible clues here? That means that there were two SEPARATE national governments established, one, guarenteed a Repbulic, the other WITHOUT LAW and by definition, a Democracy. FROM THE BEGINNING. What was the purpose of the Civil War (See the post, The New Draft)? A City State is limited in its power by its lack of people, or, if you prefer, citizens to both tax and to fight its battles. Bingo! The so-called 14th Amendment, which was never LAWFULLY ratified, and was declared ADOPTED. If you do not understand this, see adoptive act in a legal dictionary. For reference see the so-called 16th Amndment, whcih was never LAWFULLY ratified, and was declared ADOPTED. Here is a rule; if there are two national governments, THERE ARE TWO CONSTITUTIONS! Following the Civil War, the so-claaed freed slaves were turned over to the Federal government as prize property through the 14th Amendment, when the federal government told them to take a number, or leave. Starting in 1876, 9 diget ID numbers were issed to these new slaves-of-the-state. Ummmmm, do you, Mr. wbales, happen to have a government issued 9-diget ID number? By... any.... chance? See the Post, Who Controls the United States, Part 2. Oh, and by the way, Social Security is now in 173 nations world wide (umm, not in the axis of evil nations? How odd), is controlled from The City (London) by the Crown of England, and a portion of the taxes that you pay goes to the Crown of England. See the Post, Who Controls the United States, Part II. Oh, and I quote Robin; I don´t see anything wrong with a marriage lic. (See the Post, There is no Separation of church and state). A marriage Lic. is issued for purposes of INTERMARRIAGE. When you became a United States citizen, you took on the same STATUS as a colored PERSON, and traded in your natural rights (see the Declaration of Independence) for the Civil Rights given to the new slaves-US citizens after the Civil War. Now, I understand that all of this is just mumbo-jumbo, and it has no bearing on what is going on today because it is all so old!!!!! And anyway, who cares, right? Children, are you listening? Because I repeat, no one is violating the Constitution. And yes, I understand, it is so easy to just go out and kill someone.... well, friend wbales, THEY SHOOT BACK! And any action such as that would completely polorize the people of America, and A MAJORITY OF THEM WOULD SUPPORT THE US GOVERNMENT BECAUSE THEY DO NOT UNDERSTAND... just like you. And they are not angry, yet. And what you are talking about is what THEY want! The US government signed a population compact in the 1960s in which it is the stated purpose of the US government to reduce the population of the United States to 50 million by 2050. Go ahead, they are waiting for you to start something. And in what you want to do, A MIN. OF 25-30 MILLION WOULD DIE, most of them starving to death because you now live in a nation, the United States, which, for the first time in its history, can no longer feed itself without imports, which, I may add, are controlled by the US government. So, how do you change this, well, I was going to explain that in Who Controls the United States, Part 5, BUT I DON´T THINK SO! You do it by word-of-mouth; an educational program that goes person to person (that is a legal term, by the way), explaining what happened, why, and what is needed to change it. Will the powers-that-be stand by and accept that. Probably not, and the odds are 80% or better that you will get your Civl War II, as I would have explained in Part 5, BUT, you would begin to build a concenus by and amoung Americans, which is all that matters that we may come together against THEM, and today, that is possible because of the anger that prevades America about vote stealing, 9/11, Iraq and the rest of it. But hey, what do I know? (Do not bother telling me that I write to much; it is very difficult dealing with people who have so little knowledge and understanding. Things happening today are based on actions from the past; why is that so hard to understand?)
two concurrent federal jurisdictions:
The Talmudic Khazar-Jew dream; Christians killing Muslims and Muslims killing Christians. What could be better than that? Well, Whites killing non-Whites and non-Whites killing Whites, of course.
#78. To: richard9151 (#77)
1) Can I use this defense when and if I'm ever arrested? 2) Will it work? If yes, please provide case law. G*d bless....
The purpose of the Constitution was to establish a CITY STATE DEMOCRACY on land selected by the Jesuits,
#79. To: BTP Holdings, wbales, Tausero, christine, jessejane, RickyJ, mehtable, Zoroaster, robin, Eoghan, tom007, Jethro Tull, Neil McIver, lodwick, angel, AngelSpawn, , range, all (#76)
Hogwash and balderdash. From the Post, More Blonde Jokes II; "A canon of construction which teaches that of Congress, unless a contrary intent appears, is meant to apply only within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States." U.S. v. Spelar, 338 U.S. 217 at 222 (1949); in other words, only within the Federal Zone. (When you see a term that says ´within the United States, now you know that it is a LEGAL term and you know what it means.´) Please pay attention to the law site above, which comes from a court case. From More Blonde Jokes II; Unless expressly provided otherwise in the law itself, all laws passed by the U.S. Congress shall conclusively be presumed to apply only within the former, or first of the two jurisdictions, called the federal zone, above. That means, in the Democracy, where the restrictions of the Constitution does not apply. From More Blonde Jokes II; (In Downes v. Bidwell, the Court ruled that "exclusive" meant "without consideration of the Constitutional restraints...") THERE IS NO SHADOW GOVERNMENT!!!! ALL OF YOU ARE UNITED STATES CITIZENS!!!!! WHAT IS SO HIDDEN ABOUT THAT???????????? I GUESS I JUST DON´T GET IT!!!!!!!!!
The two federal juridictions occur in how Congress writes legislation.
The Talmudic Khazar-Jew dream; Christians killing Muslims and Muslims killing Christians. What could be better than that? Well, Whites killing non-Whites and non-Whites killing Whites, of course.
#80. To: Jethro Tull (#78)
GET REAL!!!!! YOU ARE A UNITED STATES CITIZEN-SLAVE!!!!!!
Can I use this defense when and if I'm ever arrested?
The Talmudic Khazar-Jew dream; Christians killing Muslims and Muslims killing Christians. What could be better than that? Well, Whites killing non-Whites and non-Whites killing Whites, of course.
#81. To: richard9151 (#77)
Yes.
Are you going to argue with him?
In 1947, the UN created a perpetual war and named it Israel.
#82. To: Ferret Mike (#71)
You don't care about fact, which is the the watermark of an apologist. In your case, it's the mark of both an ADL and a jackboot apologist.
I don't care what you allege.
The ADL is training the New Gestapo "I am not in here so many years using my own name because I am in the business of lying to anyone anyplace on the Internet I've been." Ferret Mike
#83. To: Mekons4 (#75)
They have more influence than any other group in the country, which means they run the country by default. As Chertoff is both an Israeli and a muckety-muck in B'nai B'rith and literally has George Bush's life in his hands (Secret Service is under the aegis of Homeland Security), it makes one wonder.
But they don't run our country, they just get away with murder.
The ADL is training the New Gestapo "I am not in here so many years using my own name because I am in the business of lying to anyone anyplace on the Internet I've been." Ferret Mike
#84. To: Neil McIver, BTP Holdings, wbales, Tausero, christine, jessejane, RickyJ, mehtable, Zoroaster, robin, Eoghan, tom007, Jethro Tull, lodwick, angel, AngelSpawn, , range, all (#0)
The Constitution is alive and quite well, thank you, and I want to show ALL of you how little you understand, EVEN WHEN THE INFORMATION IS HANDED TO YOU, BY YOUR FELLOW CHILDREN. 1. The US government is incompetent; look at how badly they are handling the War in Iraq! (Jeez. As if.) I see this theme constantly being discussed on 4um, and repeated repeated repeated repeated endlessly. Meanwhile, the important part of the info flies past all of you with hardly a notice, and, it would be the part that could be used to awaken people. 2. The US government has constantly refused to send enought soldiers to Iraq to ´get the job done.´ An action which is repeated is not an accident, and reveals INTENT. Do you understand, children? 3. On 4um, there was a post some time ago detailing a meeting with many different military officiers, including Turkish military in which a new, proposed map of the Middle East was presented BY THE US MILITARY. The Turkish military walked out of the meeting as soon as the map was presented. Why? Because the map revealed the INTENT of the US government which included carving off a part of Turkey to form the new state of the Kurds. BUT, what the new map also revealed was no-more-Iran; Iran was divided into three separate sections. Sound familiar? Because this division of Iraq can not occur without a civil war...... WOW! Boy!!! Is that US government incompetent or what?! There was also a post on 4um before about the intent of the US government to turn Bagdad into a new City State..... well, let me see.... Bagdad..... ummmmm... See the post, Masonary is a Religion. See the post, The Talmud Unmasked. Ummm, what is the federal code? Oh, right, according to BTP Holdings, the Law Merchant, and he is correct, but.... the Law Merchant is the merchant law of Babylon brought forward through Rome and incorporated within the Federal Zone. Oh, yes, I forgot, Bagdad IS the location of old Babylon. so for the purposes of religion, Bagdad IS Babylon. It is The Babylonian Talmud, and if you read the post, Masonry is a Religion, you will find that the Masons are the keepers of the Mysteries (their words, not mine) of Nimrod, who.... oh right, was King of Babylon and the founder of the Mystery Religion (and worshipped throughout the ages of the world as Baal, Marduk, and the Sun; anyone care to worship on the day of the Sun? You know, Sun-day?), and the Mystery Religion of Babylon is the religion of the Roman church named catholic, or, universal. See the book, Two Babylons, but hey, what do I know.
Dead Constitution
The Talmudic Khazar-Jew dream; Christians killing Muslims and Muslims killing Christians. What could be better than that? Well, Whites killing non-Whites and non-Whites killing Whites, of course.
#85. To: Jethro Tull (#73)
You and I must be in a race to see who can get the thickest FBI file, and be placed on every list from the no-fly list to the red roundup list to the "arkanside" list simultaneously.
Any* attempt to deal with this system with amendments, motions and legal action is like pissing in the wind. It's gone rogue; a judge doesn't follow law, h/she follows whims. We need snipers, like the dude who put a hole a that black robed thug in Reno.
***LEAP***
"I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. Government will lead the American people, and the West in general, into an unbearable hell and choking life.
-- Osama bin Laden
"A prohibition law strikes at the very principles upon which our govt was founded."
- Lincoln
All our liberties are due to men who, when their conscience has compelled them, have broken the laws of the land.
--William K Clifford
#86. To: IndieTX, Jethro Tull (#85)
LOL!! So many lists, so little time.
You and I must be in a race to see who can get the thickest FBI file, and be placed on every list from the no-fly list to the red roundup list to the "arkanside" list simultaneously.
In 1947, the UN created a perpetual war and named it Israel.
#87. To: richard9151 (#84)
I think you should further complicate your position by quoting passages from Don Quixote de la Mancha.
In 1947, the UN created a perpetual war and named it Israel.
#88. To: IndieTX (#85)
i know a few others who are in that race :P
#89. To: richard9151 (#84)
i'm not disputing that what you've posted is factual, but it sure seems to me that it's pretty damn futile to try to fight a centuries old conspiracy, especially if you believe bible prophesy that this is all going to happen.
#90. To: Neil McIver (#0)
For all the "security" budgets, the new Gestapo has to justify their existence. All the post 9-11 bullshit is a massive spending frenzy, with hooked-up entities grabbing millions, like they were pennies.
#91. To: richard9151, Christine, Aristeides, Honway, Critter, All (#84)
DickeyBird, You are so full of shit - your breath must stink!
#92. To: BTP Holdings, wbales, Tausero, christine, jessejane, RickyJ, mehtable, Zoroaster, robin, Eoghan, tom007, Jethro Tull, Neil McIver, lodwick, angel, AngelSpawn, , range, all (#81)
Interesting. Yes, indeed. Does that indicate stupibity, arguing with established judical case law which goes back 187 years to 1819, or, just disinformation? I have seen in 4um references to another group, and a comment from there, about rounding up all of the posters on 4um to make the world safer, I assume (possibly for Khazar-Jews?). Now, does it make any sense to anyone in 4um that those kinds of comments are being made.... or are there going to be monitors placed here to keep track..... oh, and by the way, to mislead, misdirect, misinform, confuse, prevent consensus, keep the BS rolling, and generally, make sure that nothing constructive is accomplished? Now, to anyone in 4um, does it make any sense to argue with a Supreme Court justice and what he wrote 105 years ago, and which has never and can never be overturned? Or, is it just disinformation, just as when wbales writes about killing people; now, is that a solution, or, incitment? Because this is what is taught in Jesuit universities;how to control debate and focus the debate in construtive directions (constructive for them; not us). I will leave the judgement to you as to what is going on. And, is bwales the only one? Probably not. Debating techniques include covering over positions that are not defenceable. For instance, in the post, Freemasonry is a religion, I posted this; "…The apex of our teachings has been the rituals of MORALS AND DOGMA, written over a century ago…" (15) Time-out; before anyone argues with this; go here: http://bessel.org/bkrevs.htm MLC - Masonic Leadership Center web page of Masonic Book Reviews (You will note above that this is a Masonic center; not a figment of my imagination, right?) The information on this web page was prepared by Paul M. Bessel, Executive Secretary of the Masonic Leadership Center. It is an attempt to compile the locations of all reviews of Masonic books, as well as links to reviews of Masonic books on the Internet, plus texts of Masonic books on the Internet. I will try to add to it regularly, to include current reviews of Masonic books and reviews from the past, too. If anyone wants to send me email, especially if any of the information on this chart is not correct or if you know of additional information that should be included, please send me email by clicking on my name: Paul M. Bessel Albert Pike, by Fred W. Allsopp (1928) Bro. Wilson's abstract: Learn what made this ‘best loved of all Freemasons’ the remarkable man he was. Albert Pike: The Man Beyond the Monument, by Jim Tresner review by Wallace McLeod in The Royal Arch Mason, Spring 1996 review by Thomas W. Jackson in The Northern Light, February 1996 Morals and Dogma, by Albert Pike review on the Internet I did this because SKYDRIFTER told me that Albert Pike is no longer a guiding light of Masonry; above: Albert Pike, by Fred W. Allsopp (1928) Bro. Wilson's abstract: Learn what made this ‘best loved of all Freemasons’ the remarkable man he was. in the post, Freemasonry is a religion, we find this; Many of the rank and file of Freemasonry continue to insist that Freemasonry is not a religion. However, their own writings contradict these assertions. Albert Pike, Grand Commander of the Scottish Rite (1860), recorded: "Every lodge is a temple of religion, and its teaching instruction in religion." (13) To what religion was Pike making reference? His own words offer all the clarification needed: "Masonry is the successor to the Mysteries." (14) Many modern Masons have tried to distance themselves from Pike and his gnostic (highly occultic) work, MORALS AND DOGMA. They insist that his teachings are not that of Masonry, but merely his personal beliefs. They further insist that modern, benevolent Masonry should not be judged by writings over 100 years old. This line of reasoning is very confusing to those who recognize the Legend of Hiram Abiff is supposedly almost 3000 years old. Are not the claims of Masonry said to have originated at the time of Solomon? Are all claims and teachings prior to the 20th Century now null and void? Does this also negate the 32 degrees of the Scottish Rite designed by Pike? Furthermore, as recently as 1989, Scottish Rite Grand Commander, C. Fred Kleinknecht wrote: "…The apex of our teachings has been the rituals of MORALS AND DOGMA, written over a century ago…" (15) To which SKYDRIFTER replies; Anyone who knows anything about Pike knows that he was a unique scholar of languages. For example, he claimed to be Lucifer - in the context of the "...bringer of Light" (knowledge and truth) - as opposed to being the devil. (Yeah, right, double-speak is alive and well, that is exactly what Lucifer claimed he brought to the world.) SKYDRIFTR also said; In any case, Pike's personal opinion of the late 1800s has no overwhelming bearing on what's true in the 21st century; whether you approve or not. I suggest that those of you who do not understand, go back and read what I copied above from the post Freemasonry is a Religion about Albert Pike. Then: ... ONLY THOSE WHO HAVE ACCEPTED JESUS CHRIST AS THEIR SAVIOR ARE THE SONS OF GOD!! Manly Hall revealed the opposite position of Freemasonry when he wrote: "To the altar of Freemasonry all men bring their most votive offerings. Around it all men, whether they have received their teachings from Confucius, Zoroaster, Moses, Mohammed, or the founder of the Christian Religion (note he does not name the name of Jesus –ed.), just as long as they believe in the universality of the of the fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man …. meet upon a common level." (26) Another Freemason, Albert Mackey, records: "Now as Masons we divide not between these (Ashteroth, Vishnu, Dagon, Baal) but take all in as our Brethren, and the One God as our Heavenly Father, revealed to us as such in The Light of Masonry." (27) Mackey here not only reiterates the heresy of Universality, but also raises a more serious question: What "god" is this that allows acceptance of the followers of Baal and these other pagan deities as brethren? This is certainly not the God of the Bible. (Incidentally, the god Baal was a Canaanite corruption of the Babylonian god Bacchus, who was directly derived from Tammuz, the son of the widow of Nimrod.) (28) God, in the Old Testament commanded Israel to completely annihilate the followers of Baal. This is from two very famous Masons, Albert MacKey, and Manley Hall, but SKYDRIFTER leaves this alone, because the last time he lied to me, I slapped him with the info about Albert Pike. Now, go to the very same sight where I found the info on Pike; http://bessel.org/bkrevs.htm We find: Freemasonry of the Ancient Egyptians, by Manly P. Hall Bro. Wilson's abstract: Attempts to unravel the Masonic mysteries of Egypt. Includes a drama – The Initiation of Plato – and an interpretation of CRATA REPOA. Oh, and for those of you still confused, you can also find; Pillars of Wisdom: The Writings of Albert Pike, by Dr. Rex R. Hutchens Our Masonic Presidents, by L. Randall Rogers Notes on the Scientific and Religious Mysteries of Antiquity, by John Yarker (1872) Bro. Wilson's abstract: Gnosis and secret schools of the middle ages, modern Rosicrucians, and the various degrees of Freemasonry. Mackey's Encyclopedia of Freemasonry (revised edition with supplement by Harry L. Haywood) review by Harold V.B. Voorhis in The Philalethes, October 1965 review by L.E. W. in The Philalethes, October-November, 1949 Mackey's History of Freemasonry Mackey’s Revised History of Freemasonry, by Robert I. Clegg (The Masonic History Co.; New York, NY; 1922) / 7 volumes Bro. Wilson's abstract: Clear, complete, compact, thoroughly revised, enlarged and brought up to date [1921]. An invaluable resource for libraries and students. A Life of Albert Pike, by Walter Lee Brown review by Jim Tresner in The Scottish Rite Journal, October 1997 review by Wallace McLeod in The Philalethes, February 1998 Life Story of Albert Pike, by Fred W. Allsopp G. Washington: Master Mason information on the Internet about this book review by Alphonse Cerza in The Northern Light, January 1982 General Albert Pike, by Fred W. Allsopp (1928) Bro. Wilson's abstract: The story of the man who revitalized the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite and brought it from obscurity to prominence. George Washington in New York, by Allan Boudreau and Alexander Bleimann review by Wallace McLeod in The Royal Arch Mason, Spring 1991 review by Thomas W. Jackson in The Northern Light, May 1991 The George Washington Masonic National Memorial, by William A. Brown review by Alphonse Cerza in The Northern Light, June 1980 A Glossary to Morals and Dogma, by Rex R. Hutchens review by Jim Tresner in The Scottish Rite Journal, August 1998 And on and on and on. But judge for yourself as to what is going on, and act accordingly, because, hey, what do I know.
Yes
The Talmudic Khazar-Jew dream; Christians killing Muslims and Muslims killing Christians. What could be better than that? Well, Whites killing non-Whites and non-Whites killing Whites, of course.
#93. To: christine (#89)
So, you also advocate the position of bwales that it is better to pot that black robed ... um, whatever, in Reno, than work for a solution? Am I correct? Because what wbales is doing is called incitement. That is a crime. Within the United States, of course, so, is this the solution that you also advocate? Because I do not. I NEVER want to pick up a gun and go after someone. EVER! I do not even own a gun anymore, and I have no intention of ever owning one again. Do I believe Bible prophesy, yes, I do, and I also believe what the Bible says about no man knowing the time of His coming. So, do I stop and wait? Don´t think so. But that is just me. You´all do as you see best, because hey, what do I know.
i'm not disputing that what you've posted is factual, but it sure seems to me that it's pretty damn futile to try to fight a centuries old conspiracy, especially if you believe bible prophesy that this is all going to happen
The Talmudic Khazar-Jew dream; Christians killing Muslims and Muslims killing Christians. What could be better than that? Well, Whites killing non-Whites and non-Whites killing Whites, of course.
#94. To: richard9151, Christine, Aristeides, Honway, Critter, BTP Holdings, wbales, Tauzero, christine, jessejane, RickyJ, mehitable, Zoroaster, robin, Eoghan, tom007, Jethro Tull, Neil McIver, lodwick, angel, AngelSpawn, , randge, all (#92)
DickeyBird, If the Masons had any power, I'd still be flying airliners.
It's that simple. What's this PSYOPS distraction of yours about? "Don't
look at Bush?" This is the 21st Century; what are the Masons up to, worthy
of your pathological attack? Well....? Whose "Agent" are you, anyway.
Clearly you've been to "Disinformation School." Are you "BAC," by another name?
Are you assigned to stir up Anti-Semitism, so as to flag targets for the
ADL? What's your "mission?" You can tell us.
#95. To: wbales (#87)
No, don´t think so... I was kind of saving that for you, cause it would make more sense than anything else you have had to say.
I think you should further complicate your position by quoting passages from Don Quixote de la Mancha.
The Talmudic Khazar-Jew dream; Christians killing Muslims and Muslims killing Christians. What could be better than that? Well, Whites killing non-Whites and non-Whites killing Whites, of course.
#96. To: SKYDRIFTER (#94)
Exposing such as you, of course, one-legged-man. And putting some sense into the non-sense. God Bless, all
What's your "mission?" You can tell us.
The Talmudic Khazar-Jew dream; Christians killing Muslims and Muslims killing Christians. What could be better than that? Well, Whites killing non-Whites and non-Whites killing Whites, of course.
#97. To: richard9151 (#92)
Under Stare Decisis past court rulings become precedent and these decisions determine subsequent legal decisions. All legal precedents are subject to being overturned or modified thus argument concerning past legal decisions is quite germane and proper and is a common function of our legal system. Arguing religion based on harebrained maps and religious doctrine and writings is quite a different thing. You are arguing apples and oranges.
"Does that indicate stupidity, arguing with established judicial case law which goes back 187 years to 1819, or, just disinformation?"
#98. To: richard9151, Christine, Aristeides, Honway, Critter, BTP Holdings, wbales, Tausero, christine, jessejane, RickyJ, mehtable, Zoroaster, robin, Eoghan, tom007, Jethro Tull, Neil McIver, lodwick, angel, AngelSpawn, , range, all (#92)
According to your irrational rantings, DickeyBird (BAC?); you are really fucked up. This is the 21st Century, what of Masons today? Washington was a Mason & used to own slaves. Did you leave that out? (Shame on you, DickeyBird!) Welcome to the 21st Century - what's new, in the Masonic world? Or, take me - as a Mason. Look to my pleas to return to the "Proud America." How bad can Masons be? Look to my 9-11 Web Site. http://home.comcast.net/~skyd rifter/exp.htm That's a lot of risk-taking, in my attempts to restore "Proud America." Does that make me - or "Masons" bad? Where's your contribution, versus your whining and rantings?
#99. To: Ferret Mike, Jethro Tull, mehitable, christine, Zipporah, Diana, rowdee, ruthie, richard9151 (#97)
Arguing religion based on harebrained maps and religious doctrine and writings is quite a different thing. You are arguing apples and oranges. Right. The Dred Scott Decision of 1857 was a precedent until 1861. The challenge came when runaway slaves sought refuge in Fortress Monroe, VA and the commanding officer, one Major General Benjamin Butler (aka Beastly Ben, aka "Spoons" for his habit of pilfering silverware at dinner parties) granted the slaves sanctuary. And it was a Connecticut jury that essentially buried the fugitive slave law by simply refusing to convict. Footnote: This was the same Maj. Gen Butler who issued the infamous General Order #28.
Under Stare Decisis past court rulings become precedent and these decisions determine subsequent legal decisions. All legal precedents are subject to being overturned or modified thus argument concerning past legal decisions is quite germane and proper and is a common function of our legal system.
#100. To: HOUNDDAWG (#99)
Thanks much for that nugget of the day.
"Spoons" bump
#101. To: richard9151 (#80)
You didn't answer my question. What defense do I use if I'm arrested? Also, please show this forum where such a defense has achieved success. G*d bless you.
#102. To: lodwick (#100)
You must be a Confederate. My Yankee buddies don't find it all that amusing! ;)
#103. To: HOUNDDAWG (#102) (Edited)
Jim is one of the many reasons I wish the South had won.
#104. To: richard9151 (#92)
What are you talking about?? Direct me to that specific language/post.
Or, is it just disinformation, just as when wbales writes about killing people; now, is that a solution, or, incitment?
In 1947, the UN created a perpetual war and named it Israel.
#105. To: richard9151 (#92)
I wrote no such thing. And since there is no idiot block, I'll have to just put you on my BOZO list.
Or, is it just disinformation, just as when wbales writes about killing people
In 1947, the UN created a perpetual war and named it Israel.
#106. To: richard9151 (#93)
not wise at all, imo. i posted to you the other day that i don't believe anything short of a complete economic collapse will work to wake up the american people in a critical enough number to effect a massive change. when/if that happens, there's going to be total chaos and it's going to be pretty much survival of the fittest. i, for one, want to insure that i have everything possible to defend myself. and i'll tell you what, it's government agents i fear doing me and mine harm much moreso than common street thugs.
I do not even own a gun anymore, and I have no intention of ever owning one again.
#107. To: SKYDRIFTER (#94)
Besides generally making no sense, at least part of his mission was to mis-read posts, mis-attribute comments to me and get placed on my BOZO list. Mission Accomplished
What's your "mission?" You can tell us.
In 1947, the UN created a perpetual war and named it Israel.
#108. To: SKYDRIFTER (#94)
Be gentle...richard is offering us salvation from the safety of Mexico City. I for one am grateful for his wisdom :)
#109. To: christine (#88)
LOL!
i know a few others who are in that race :P
***LEAP***
"I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. Government will lead the American people, and the West in general, into an unbearable hell and choking life.
-- Osama bin Laden
"A prohibition law strikes at the very principles upon which our govt was founded."
- Lincoln
All our liberties are due to men who, when their conscience has compelled them, have broken the laws of the land.
--William K Clifford
#110. To: christine (#106)
christine walked up behind me, stuck a pair of .38's in my back THEN SHE PULLED OUT A GUN!" ;)
...i, for one, want to insure that i have everything possible to defend myself....
#111. To: HOUNDDAWG (#110)
One of the great mysteries I'm puzzled about these Republicans of the Mark Foley variety; why do they prefer to do the nasty with a partner with no rack, then send them off to Iraq? How is that raq preferable to knowing in fullness the other sort of rack? Not only do I not understand this, I profoundly never want to. ;-)
"christine walked up behind me, stuck a pair of .38's in my back THEN SHE PULLED OUT A GUN!"
#112. To: christine. everyone here (#106)
Locked & loaded bump.
#113. To: HOUNDDAWG. christine (#110)
What can I say? She does have formidable firepower...for sure. .45ACP BUMP!
christine walked up behind me, stuck a pair of .38's in my back THEN SHE PULLED OUT A GUN!" ;)
#114. To: Neil McIver (#0)
Perhaps they should just go straight to the Janet Reno method.
#115. To: christine (#106)
Amen to that!
***LEAP***
"I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. Government will lead the American people, and the West in general, into an unbearable hell and choking life.
-- Osama bin Laden
"A prohibition law strikes at the very principles upon which our govt was founded."
- Lincoln
All our liberties are due to men who, when their conscience has compelled them, have broken the laws of the land.
--William K Clifford
#116. To: Neil McIver, BTP Holdings, wbales, Tausero, christine, jessejane, RickyJ, mehtable, Zoroaster, robin, Eoghan, tom007, Jethro Tull, lodwick, angel, AngelSpawn, max, Phant2000, range, all (#84)
Please read number 84 first, please, and now I want to take this a little further on, and show you another way that George Bush could turn things around, in a heart beat. As you read this, remember what the President of Iran told us; that representatives of the United States government have been meeting with the leaders of the insurrection, arming them, and funding them, thus guarenteeing that a civil war would occur. I just posted a new post; Congress sets aside 20M to celebrate wars end, from AP Now, why would they do that? And, why will the Democracts NOT jump on the bank wagon against the war? Do they know something.... that you don¨t know? Bet on it. Here is a solution to the war, and it accomplishes exactly what I outlined in number 84. Already being talked about in Bagdad is the possibility of ending the sectarian violence by agreeing to partion Iran; that would be for the Shites, Kurds, and whoever the third faction is. But here is the rest of the story; you will be told, in only one or two news account, that a compromise has been reached whereby all Iraqi people will have access to Bagdad, but because of sectarian violence, Bagdad will be under the direct control of the Iraqi parliment (or whatever) WHICH WILL HAVE EXCLUSIVE JURISDICTION OVER BAGDAD. It will then be explained that the three separate sections of Iraq will now be legally separate (or words to that effect), with their own school systems, own laws, own courts, and own police, etc. etc. It will also be explained that, in order to benefit the Iraqi people in general, BAGDAD WILL HAVE CONTROL OVER ALL NATURAL RESOURCES. Bingo, control of the oil. And, the Iraqi people, now split up, will no longer be able to resist what is going on. If this occurs before the election, the election will be a slam dunk for the Repub., the Dems do not look bad because they never came out against the war, and.... it paves the way for the war in Iran. I mean, who is going to argue with George Bush, when he SO obviously knows what he is doing. Right? And good-bye 9/11 problems. Who wants to hear that nonsense now when we are winning the war on terror! Oh, and the other thing that you are going to be told is how fortunate are the Iraqis, because they now have a Constitution which is modeled, more or less, after that greatest of all documents, the US Constitution. Lucky people.
The Constitution is alive and quite well, thank you,
The Talmudic Khazar-Jew dream; Christians killing Muslims and Muslims killing Christians. What could be better than that? Well, Whites killing non-Whites and non-Whites killing Whites, of course.
#117. To: HOUNDDAWG, Ferret Mike, Jethro Tull, mehitable, christine, Zipporah, Diana, rowdee, ruthie (#99)
Absolutely correct, and if you care to examine the time frame shown, it is 4 years. I have even seen over-turns that were done after 15 years, but that is very rare. I have never seen a case that has lasted for 187 years be over- turned, and I never will; nor will I ever see a case that is 105 years old be over-turned. A case that is this old, and which has been sited in deciding 100s of other cases, is something that is set in concrete; if it were over-turned, then the ripple effect down through all of the other cases that were decided on this case would be wondrous indeed to observe. Ain´t gonna happen; can not happen, is an impossibility.
All legal precedents are subject to being overturned or modified
The Talmudic Khazar-Jew dream; Christians killing Muslims and Muslims killing Christians. What could be better than that? Well, Whites killing non-Whites and non-Whites killing Whites, of course.
#118. To: Jethro Tull (#101)
Arrestd for what? Littering? Drunk driving? Armed robbery? Incest? A persons got to know, you know.
Also, please show this forum where such a defense has achieved success.
The Talmudic Khazar-Jew dream; Christians killing Muslims and Muslims killing Christians. What could be better than that? Well, Whites killing non-Whites and non-Whites killing Whites, of course.
#119. To: wbales (#104)
Sorry; it was Jethro speaking TO you.
Direct me to that specific language/post.
The Talmudic Khazar-Jew dream; Christians killing Muslims and Muslims killing Christians. What could be better than that? Well, Whites killing non-Whites and non-Whites killing Whites, of course.
#120. To: richard9151, Jethro Tull (#117)
It wasn't that many years ago that an ART.3 judge ruled that Art 1 sec 10 of the constitution was "superfluous". Despite the clear constitutional mandate that "no state shall make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts", which by the way was not an afterthought because banker mischief was well known to the founders, real money is gone and debt paper has taken its place. The simple truth is, a judge may dismantle any protection you believe you have, the appeals court will uphold it and the SCOTUS will deny certiorari, and the media will paint you as a kook for having believed so strongly that the system is somehow obligated to uphold archaic laws because you invoked them.
I have never seen a case that has lasted for 187 years be over- turned, and I never will; nor will I ever see a case that is 105 years old be over-turned.
#121. To: HOUNDDAWG (#110)
34s :P
There is no week nor day nor hour when tyranny may not enter upon this country - if the people lose their confidence in themselves - and lose their roughness and spirit of defiance." - Walt Whitman
#122. To: richard9151 (#117) (Edited)
precisely. my point to you in prior posts. why is it, then, that you believe the solution is seeking the change of a few words of the 17th amendment?
A case that is this old, and which has been sited in deciding 100s of other cases, is something that is set in concrete; if it were over- turned, then the ripple effect down through all of the other cases that were decided on this case would be wondrous indeed to observe. Ain´t gonna happen; can not happen, is an impossibility.
There is no week nor day nor hour when tyranny may not enter upon this country - if the people lose their confidence in themselves - and lose their roughness and spirit of defiance." - Walt Whitman
#123. To: richard9151 (#92)
Friend, you'd probably have a lot better luck attempting to educate folks about what obviously to you is an important topic. Quite bluntly and to the point, IMO you'd attract a lot more folks if you didn't try to put the entire enclyclopedia in a single post. It's brain overload, and a wasted way to get folks really to think about and ponder over what you've taken the time to write. Personally, I believe you'd get a lot further down the pike by making a serialization of your project. Even maintain an index.........and lead folks into your project in a methodical way...one that helps them see the light step by step, or one room or container after another.....but not all at once. But this bullshit of trying to put the entire National Archives into a single posting won't cut it. There was another fella at tos2 that had an obsession on one subject--that's all he ever was concerned about. He'd get really frustrated that others just didn't jump thru hoops to go thru his posts. I often wonder if he didn't bust a gasket or something.......
#124. To: HOUNDDAWG (#99)
Goodness....you're just a walking, talking mini-cyclopedia! :) Interesting, too.
#125. To: richard9151 (#116)
Hate to burst your bubble there, richard9151...but anyone deciding anything in BagHdad about doing anything by partitioning IRAN is so full of shit! They just had to pull out a battalion of the iraqi police force because they were in cahoots with militia death squads. That means that our soldiers, and a large number of them, will be redirected into BagHdad to dodge bullets, death squads, suicide bombers as this large battalion of iraqi police have to be retrained and reconditioned and pass all sorts of loyalty tests before they can be of service---there is so way in hell they're gonna be able to get those religious sects or their militias to think about partitioning IRAN.
Already being talked about in Bagdad is the possibility of ending the sectarian violence by agreeing to partion Iran; that would be for the Shites, Kurds, and whoever the third faction is.
#126. To: richard9151 (#116)
Oh yeah.....I wanted to mention something about your constitutional amendment. Your chances of geting congresscowards to go along with that are about zippo. And if you called for a constititional convention, I, for one, would fight you every step of the way. The minute a concon is called, it is all over for sure. Positively. Overnight.
#127. To: christine (#121)
I thought you said 38s!
34s :P
#128. To: rowdee (#124)
Thanks. I grew up in Norfolk, VA, in the shadow of Fortress Monroe. It also happens to be in immediate proximity to the location where the ironclads, the USS Monitor and the CSS Virginia (Merrimack) did battle in Hampton Roads. The Civil War was a focus of interest of mine as a kid, and Gettysburg is still my favorite getaway spot. I live in Delaware now, near the fort on Pea Patch Island that served as a prison for captured Confederates. One of them was my great great uncle who fought with the 5th North Carolina and was captured at The Battle Of The Stone Wall at Gettysburg. He and 2,435 others, mostly malaria victims are buried in a mass grave across the river in New Jersey in Finn's Point National Cemetery. This is the same cemetery where Andrew Cunanan murdered the caretaker and stole his truck, then drove to FLA to murder fashion designer Gianni Versace. I visit this mass grave often. It's well maintained (including the display of crisp Confederate flags on the four corners of the gravesite) by the Fort Delaware Society. it's a shame that such a solemn place has to carry the memory of the murdering psycho gay prostitute.
#129. To: rowdee (#127)
that was Cheri :P ( . )( . )
There is no week nor day nor hour when tyranny may not enter upon this country - if the people lose their confidence in themselves - and lose their roughness and spirit of defiance." - Walt Whitman
#130. To: rowdee (#126)
Can you imagine Ted Kennedy and Diane Feinstein rewriting the constitution?
And if you called for a constititional convention, I, for one, would fight you every step of the way. The minute a concon is called, it is all over for sure. Positively. Overnight.
#131. To: christine (#129)
( . )( . ) That's more like it them.
#132. To: HOUNDDAWG (#130)
Nope ... but ignoring it looks easy enough for them !
Can you imagine Ted Kennedy and Diane Feinstein rewriting the constitution?
"consensus facit legem"
"consensus makes the law"
#133. To: noone222 (#132)
Nothing I can add to that.
Nope ... but ignoring it looks easy enough for them !
#134. To: lodwick (#131)
you don't miss a trick, do ya? ;)
There is no week nor day nor hour when tyranny may not enter upon this country - if the people lose their confidence in themselves - and lose their roughness and spirit of defiance." - Walt Whitman
#135. To: christine. (#134)
I'm striking this entire post - let's just say that you're beautiful, and leave it there.
you don't miss a trick, do ya? ;)
I just try to be an honest, faithful reporter of the way it they are here.
#136. To: HOUNDDAWG (#128)
Oh, criminy crickets! Dawg! My great grandfather was captured trying to get to Vicksburg after the Battle of Big Black River. He and a thousand or so other fellas wound up being shipped to Ft. Morton (I believe that was the name) up in Indiana or Illinois, but then shipped onward to Ft. Delaware. GGPa was then sent to Point Lookout where he served the rest of his captivity til an exchange Christmas Eve or Christmas Day....if memory serves me correctly, he was in the last batches of prisoner exchanges--they quit doing it. I've got copies of his papers going thru various camps, and what he was released with. I've often thought of how bitterly cold it must have been for some of them southern boys up there on the Chesapeake....bitter Atlantic winds. I believe I read where they had mass graves, too.
#137. To: christine (#129)
And so it was.......have you heard from her lately?
#138. To: christine, Neil McIver, BTP Holdings, Skydrifter, Jethro Tull, lodwick, aristeides (#121)
In his assertion that there are two federal governments because the constitution is inapplicable to the District of Columbia thereby allowing Congress to form and run a "second" federal government independant of the US Constitution, the case that Richard is horribly mis-interpreting is Downes vs. Bidwell. http://www.vlex.us/caselaw/U-S-Supreme-Court/Downes-v-Bidwell-182-U-S-244- 1901/2100-20036224%2C01.html This case involved duties on a businessman importing oranges from the newly acquired terriotory (from the Spanish-American War). The importer maintained that the dutied violated the US Const. requiring duties between states to be uniform and that Puerto Rico was included in this protection as a newly acquired territory. In a 5-4 decision, he lost and had to pay the 15%. The main issue was whether territories are subject to the constitution. Richard relies heavily on the DISSENT of Justice Harlan: "...we are now informed that Congress possesses powers outside of the Constitution, and may deal with new territory, acquired by treaty or conquest, in the same manner as other nations have been accustomed to act with respect to territories acquired by them. In my opinion, Congress has no existence and can exercise no authority outside of the Constitution. Still less is it true that Congress can deal with new territories just as other nations have done or may do with their new territories. This nation is under the control of a written constitution, the supreme law of the land and the only source of the powers which our government, or any branch or officer of it, may exert at any time or at any place. Monarchical and despotic governments, unrestrained by written constitutions, may do with newly acquired territories what this government may not do consistently with our fundamental law. To say otherwise is to concede that Congress may, by action taken outside of the Constitution, engraft upon our republican institutions a colonial system such as exists under monarchical governments. Surely such a result was never contemplated by the fathers of the Constitution. ... " Harlan is talking about NEWLY acquired territories (such as Puerto Rico in the instant case) and those that may be ACQUIRED at some future time. Harlan IS NOT talking about DC. His concern was that because the majority held that Congress could in effect apply duties to a newly acquired territory, Congress could, in theory, create a new, second federal government independent of the US Constitutional umbrella in newly acquired territories. Further, from Justice Gray's concurrence: " ... The cases now before the court do not touch the authority of the United States over the territories in the strict and technical sense, being those which lie within the United States, as bounded by the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans, the Dominion of Canada and the Republic of Mexico, and the territories of Alaska and Hawaii; but they relate to territory in the broader sense, acquired by the United States by war with a foreign state. ..." The majority opinion CLEARLY omits the District of Columbia from consideration and effect from the Court's holding. And here is succinctly what absolutely destroys Richard's premise: " ... It may be added in this connection, that to put at rest all doubts regarding the applicability of the Constitution to the District of Columbia, Congress by the act of February 21, 1871 (16 Stat. at L. 419, 426, chap. 62, 34), specifically extended the Constitution and laws of the United States to this District. ... " Richard relies on a complete mis-interpretation of a DISSENT in a Supreme Court Case intertwined with fantastic religious inferrences to arrive at an abjectly wrong conclusion.
In 1947, the UN created a perpetual war and named it Israel.
#139. To: HOUNDDAWG (#130)
They would be poster children in my battle against a concon==right along side the liar in chief and cheney! The image is enough to cause indigestion at the least, and outright rebellion in the long run! GAds......
#140. To: wbales (#138)
my head is spinning. KISS ;)
There is no week nor day nor hour when tyranny may not enter upon this country - if the people lose their confidence in themselves - and lose their roughness and spirit of defiance." - Walt Whitman
#141. To: AngelSpawn, Indrid Cold (#26)
A buddy of mine, when his daughter was 5 or 6, a state trooper came to the house. She said to the cop, "Are you here to arrest my Daddy? Cause if you are, I'll kick your ass." Now that is brassy. LOL
That's why I qualified with "depends on the child". Some kids at 10 are more mature than some adults will ever hope to be.
“The tendency of democracies is, in all things, to mediocrity, since the tastes, knowledge, and principles of the majority form the tribunal of appeal.” James Fenimore Cooper
#142. To: wbales (#138) (Edited)
Darn good bit of research. I did not get to go in to look at that case, but if I did, I would jump on the fact that the dissenting opinion does not hold sway. You can find some good stuff in the disenting opinions at times, but they have no validity in the case itself and how the precedent may be applied in the future. That falls to the majority opinion. BTW, I have some good research here concerning what I stated previously about the jurisdictional issue. That is what I drew from in my post. It is factual to say that there are two parallel jurisdictions and that confusion over this is where much of the tyranny arises. I knew something was fishy about richard's carrying on over this. It is as I said, all of it was a distraction to pull people and resources away from what needs to be addressed. And that phony issue is not it. Fact is, those separate jurisdictions is how everything was set up, and the abuse of that is where the problem lies. People need to be knowledgable of this in order to fight the tyranny.
“The tendency of democracies is, in all things, to mediocrity, since the tastes, knowledge, and principles of the majority form the tribunal of appeal.” James Fenimore Cooper
#143. To: rowdee (#139)
The image is enough to cause indigestion at the least, and outright rebellion in the long run! GAds...... I agree completely.
They would be poster children in my battle against a concon==right along side the liar in chief and cheney!
#144. To: richard9151, wbales, christine (#79)
Not hardly. This cite refers to the specific federal jurisdiction of the territories and posessions of the United States. You take this cite above out of context in relation to the entire opinion of the court in the instant case. From Justice Frankfurter, A 'foreign country' in which the United States has no territorial control does not bear the same relation to the United States as a 'foreign country' in which the United States does have the territorial control that it has in the air base in Newfoundland. Hence, the term "possessions" applies to the federal 'state' jurisdiction, and NOT to that of the several states. The "canon of construction" in the part of the cite above refers to the intent of Congress to apply legislation to the federal 'state' or to the several 'states', and when used in legislation the word 'state' can have these two distinct meanings. THE CONGRESSIONAL RESAERCH SERVICE AFFIRMS THIS. And the only way to know what the intent of Congress is in these instances is to read the entire law and determine in which context the word 'state' is being used. No one ever said there was a shadow government, except for you. But we know there is a shadow government that is not related to this discussion, and I have spelled that out previously as well. And there is a distinct difference between a United States Citizen and an American National. If you don't know what that is, do the research. As I stated in my other post above in this thread, we are only UNITED STATES CITIZENS if we claim to be. This is the 14th Amendment citizensip which was created by Congress for a specific purpose. When you check the box on, let's say a voter's registration, which asks, "Are you a Citizen of the United States?" and you check "YES" you are claiming to be a 14th Amendment United States Citizen. This question is on there for all of those former slaves and decendants of slaves (and others) who could not be true citizens according the the wording in the constitution. It is as I told a black guy I used to work with, "If they have to pass laws to say you have rights, then you had none to begin with." I guess you don't. Maybe this all will help, but I doubt it. ;0)
Hogwash and balderdash.
"A canon of construction which teaches that of Congress, unless a contrary intent appears, is meant to apply only within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States." U.S. v. Spelar, 338 U.S. 217 at 222
The Court's opinion finds the phrase 'foreign country,' in that Act's restriction against 'claims arising in a foreign country,' to be as compelling in excluding the Newfoundland air base, under the kind of control that the United States exercises at these bases, as less than a year ago it found the term 'possessions' in the Fair Labor Standars Act to be compelling in including these bases. Vermilya-Brown Co. v. Connell, 335 U.S. 377 . To assume that terms like 'foreign country' and 'possessions' are self-defining, not at all involving a choice of judicial judgment, is mechanical jurisprudence at its best. These terms do not have fixed and inclusive meanings, as is true of mathematical and other scientific terms. Both 'possessions' an 'foreign country' have penumbral meanings, which is not true, for instance, of the verbal designations for weights and measures. It is this precision of content which differentiates scientific from most political, legislative and legal language.
THERE IS NO SHADOW GOVERNMENT!!!! ALL OF YOU ARE UNITED STATES CITIZENS!!!!! WHAT IS SO HIDDEN ABOUT THAT????????????
I GUESS I JUST DON´T GET IT!!!!!!!!!
“The tendency of democracies is, in all things, to mediocrity, since the tastes, knowledge, and principles of the majority form the tribunal of appeal.” James Fenimore Cooper
#145. To: christine, Neil McIver, BTP Holdings, wbales, Tausero, christine, jessejane, max, Phant2000, lodwick, angel, AngelSpawn, RickyJ, all (#106)
Christine, please do not start on me. You do not know all of the story and, you are foegetting something as well. First off, I have been doing this for more years, probably, than most anyone on this list has been aware that there is even a problem. (Are you listing, Mr. Holdings?) I have not had a driver´s lic. in more than 25 years; have had private plates on my pick-up more than 20 years ago; have not had a bank account in my name in more than 20 years, and etc. etc. And I have put up with the friends, family, neighbors and strangers as well; what´s the matter, you anti-American believing all that shit? Hey, why can´t you just use regular plates like everyone else... you special or something? Jesus! Anyone believes like you, man, they belong in jail! And I have been there as well, twice for 91 days each time (and a couple of shorter visits as well). All they could do to me for contempt of court. Of course, if they knew how much contempt, they would have thrown away the key. And I have had the guns, more than 50 rifles, 20 handguns, reload my own ammo, more than 5,000 rds of armour piercing ammo, and etc. etc. etc. Most of my rifles had fiberglass bedded barrels, and I am a very, very good shot. I have been there, and done that, and you know what? It comes complete with a bunker mentality. Us against them, and, it cuts you off from normal Americans. They do not get it, and you can not reach them unless you can figure out some way to do it, that they will understand. That means education, cause you ain´t got a TV station. And what did you forget, Christine? I left the United States 25 years ago, yes, but I left the states themselves about 10 years ago (because I know full well what is coming), and I now live in Mexico, where I do not have a problem with the jack booted thugs, at least, no yet. And am I alone? No, there are about 8,000 former Americans living in this little fishing village (not so little any more), and more coming all of the time, and I understand why. Some, because they can live here much cheaper, but there are others who understand as well. Most of them won´t talk, but after you visit a little, well, they know. I have given presentations on the Federal Reserve and Disappearing Money to groups as large as 2,000 people, and I knew nothing; but I knew more than they did, so we all gained something. I have had question and answer sessions with groups that lasted sometimes in excess of 6 hours, and I had to answer dozens of questions. I have been on the radio, and did call-in with questions, but not much since my first wife got sick; that pretty well ended all of my activities. I have been writing and researching for more than 25 years, and, the more I learn, the more I find I have to learn, unlike some on here who, obviously, know it all. So, as I said, do not get on me, Christine, unless you have a similiar track record.
not wise at all,
The Talmudic Khazar-Jew dream; Christians killing Muslims and Muslims killing Christians. What could be better than that? Well, Whites killing non-Whites and non-Whites killing Whites, of course.
#146. To: HOUNDDAWG (#120)
You are absolutely correct in all that you have stated, and so was the judge.
It wasn't that many years ago that an ART.3 judge ruled that Art 1 sec 10 of the constitution was "superfluous".
The Talmudic Khazar-Jew dream; Christians killing Muslims and Muslims killing Christians. What could be better than that? Well, Whites killing non-Whites and non-Whites killing Whites, of course.
#147. To: richard9151 (#84)
As a mason, should I be looking forward to new found powers and wealth when all this comes about or will I be a serf just like the rest of you poor slobs? If I do get the powers and wealth, I'll be sure to remember my friends here at 4um and I'll see to it that you all get double bread and water rations. hehehe
Do I hear a fat lady singing?
#148. To: richard9151 (#145) (Edited)
First off, I have been doing this for more years, probably, than most anyone on this list has been aware that there is even a problem. (Are you listing, Mr. Holdings?) Richard, Address your comments to yourself, and see if you are drawn to it? It's RUDE. You might be all you say you are.. but sir, you can't make people hear you beating their ears with insults. GET TO THE POINT.. and be nice.. Do you understand that, sure, there may be simple minds you have no time or tolerance for.. but when you add a crappy attitude to it, you can kiss your mission goodbye. People that are willing to TRUDGE through reams of your incomprehensible volumes of stuff, are putting efforts into, are trying, honestly trying to understand.. , you then SEEM not to return an ounce of respect? It's your way, or we are dumbasses. That's how I see it.. and the snarky comments are not appreciated by me. I'd say more.. but small bites, might be best to appeal to you. Got a point? Make it. And don't insult people. Just my 2 cents. And BTW.. I don't care how many years you've being doing it. Get to the point.
Christine, please do not start on me. You do not know all of the story and, you are foegetting something as well.
Super-Chicken lives! - jj
#149. To: rowdee (#123)
I think you are probably correct. And part of the problem is when someone says something about reading a lot, I think they mean a book. I read a normal post of 10 -20 paragraphs in about 30 seconds, normally read 1 or, depending on work load, 2 books a week (not all of them important!). So, yes, I think you may be right. But, what to do about it? This is a really new experience to me, because I have never been in a forum before. And it is beginning to dawn on me that learning is not what most of this is about; its social.... which is not something that I really grasped before. But thanks for the input: it is appreciated.
you'd probably have a lot better luck
The Talmudic Khazar-Jew dream; Christians killing Muslims and Muslims killing Christians. What could be better than that? Well, Whites killing non-Whites and non-Whites killing Whites, of course.
#150. To: rowdee (#126)
Oh absolutely. Never happen, at least as long as nothing but attorneys are sent to Congress. But.... the states can propose amendments as well. Never been done, but it is legal.
congresscowards to go along with that are about zippo
The Talmudic Khazar-Jew dream; Christians killing Muslims and Muslims killing Christians. What could be better than that? Well, Whites killing non-Whites and non-Whites killing Whites, of course.
#151. To: richard9151 (#149)
And how long exactly did you try to understand this forum.. or the posters here, before bombing the place with enclycopedias. What did you expect? You, having done years of homework, certainly would have some training choosing an audience that migh be receptive to all your information and appreciate the effort. You found that, but you don't understand people perhaps. If this is your first forum.. even at that... you've been lucky to get this far with your posts. Most I've seen respond to you, have tried very hard, to understand you. And you have not returned the favor. Frankly Richard.. I rarely say such things... but hasta la vista. I'm not too sure you are what you say you are.
And it is beginning to dawn on me that learning is not what most of this is about; its social...
Super-Chicken lives! - jj
#152. To: richard9151 (#149)
I think you may be mistaken. I read tons of posts in order to learn. My actual comments may be social, a good part of the time, but there are literally thousands of articles I have read both here and other forums without leaving my two cents, while taking away a lot of new and vauable information. I think plenty of others are just like me, so if you have good and pertinent info to post, keep doing it. You may not see the results immediately, but you may be influencing more people than you know. Personally, I disagree with some of the stuff you post, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have value to me. I have learned quite a bit from your work.
And it is beginning to dawn on me that learning is not what most of this is about; its social....
Do I hear a fat lady singing?
#153. To: richard9151 (#145)
first, i'm not getting on you, richard. i merely gave you my opinion. because you've already ex-patriated and i'm still here living under a quickly growing and strengthening police state where the rule of law by government tyrants gets little to no respect, our situations concerning the need for firearms is not the same. you say you've been there, done that. well, i'm still smack dab in the middle of it. my husband and i are activists in the centex patriot community and are doing now many of the things you say you've done in the past, so i'm not ignorant of much of what you've shared here. you are claiming that many of us on this forum think we're know it alls. well, no offense, but you're the only one i've seen come on here and act like a know it all even referring to us as children. it's that attitude of condescension and superiority that you've displayed that has caused you to get the reactions you've gotten. several have told you the same, but so far you've refused to take it to heart.
#154. To: richard9151 (#145)
Easy to say, but you are basically an unknown commodity here. Got any proof of this? And what process, if any, are you using? The only place I hear anything like this is from ignorant busy bodies, or government agents. This rural area I live in now, not a soul has said a word about my private property tags. And it was pretty much the same back in the other place where I was living not far from here. The county cops knew about it and they didn't care. They figured as long as I wasn't bothering anyone there was no reason to mess with me. And that is the way it should be. Only the state creeps had an attitude. I thought you said you would never own another gun. So why would you even mention something like this? Prudence dictates that it is not wise to tell of being in possession of any such amount of arms and ammo as you have stated. We know about all this. You got a plan maybe?
First off, I have been doing this for more years, probably, than most anyone on this list has been aware that there is even a problem. (Are you listing, Mr. Holdings?) I have not had a driver´s lic. in more than 25 years; have had private plates on my pick-up more than 20 years ago; have not had a bank account in my name in more than 20 years, and etc. etc.
And I have put up with the friends, family, neighbors and strangers as well; what´s the matter, you anti-American believing all that shit? Hey, why can´t you just use regular plates like everyone else... you special or something? Jesus! Anyone believes like you, man, they belong in jail!
And I have had the guns,
That means education, cause you ain´t got a TV station.
“The tendency of democracies is, in all things, to mediocrity, since the tastes, knowledge, and principles of the majority form the tribunal of appeal.” James Fenimore Cooper
#155. To: rowdee (#123)
You must mean BAC. Well, he had to take a breather after myself and SKYDRIFTER worked him over way back when. Back to disinfo school for a refresher course. LOL
There was another fella at tos2 that had an obsession on one subject--that's all he ever was concerned about. He'd get really frustrated that others just didn't jump thru hoops to go thru his posts. I often wonder if he didn't bust a gasket or something.......
“The tendency of democracies is, in all things, to mediocrity, since the tastes, knowledge, and principles of the majority form the tribunal of appeal.” James Fenimore Cooper
#156. To: BTP Holdings, richard9151 (#154)
I still need people to write articles for http://unlicense.org detailing how to legally get out of the system.
Do I hear a fat lady singing?
#157. To: richard9151 (#149)
I daresay if you look at what you read, you'll find it broken down into chapters. Try breaking your posts about your project down into sections....follow a pattern that will logically lead your readers to gain the same conclusion as you desire. Perhaps on your home page, make an index or a table of contents, that matches to the titles of the sections you post. I can guarantee not everyone is a speed reader. Speaking only for myself, though I can't imagine I am the only one who does this........if a subject isn't 'hot' with me to begin with, OR it doesn't grab my attention right away, like in the first or second paragraph, I can guarantee my eyes will glaze over as I scroll past 500 paragraphs!!!
#158. To: richard9151 (#150)
I, for one, most certainly don't want states calling for a con-con.......that's just as bad as having the congressbastards initiate it. Such a move was just beaten down a few years back when leavitt of Utah tried to get one going. The problem is they would NEVER stop at just your amendment......the sonsabitches would try to rewrite the whole damn Constitution! NEVER! They've not done a fuckin thing right yet, not even with the military! Certainly not the post office! At least the Founding Fathers were wise enough to realize they weren't perfect.......these arrogant bastards at all levels in todays' government(s) place themselves right next to God and Jesus. No thanks.......They aren't worthy of carrying the chamber pots of the Founders.
#159. To: BTP Holdings (#155)
Lord, no on BAC.....I refused to read his recycled baffle em with bullshit cut and paste games!!! I was thinking of oibl (I think that was the initials)--he had a fetish regarding the federal reserve and couldn't seem to get beyond the fact that many of us knew/know about it and that there were other things to be dealt with besides that topic. Poor guy....he'd get so frustrated.
#160. To: rowdee (#159)
i knew that was who you meant. oibl=one if by land
I was thinking of oibl
#161. To: rowdee (#158)
I agree; that is not how it works. Each state or one state proposes an amendment, which is then submitted to all of the other states and to the Congress. It has never been done, but as the states are party to the Constitution, it is legal. And once the Amendment is on the table, nearly impossible to kill it; and the debate then begins, and, one would hope, the awakening. So, all that is neccessary is one state... can anyone say... Idaho?
don't want states calling for a con-con.......
The Talmudic Khazar-Jew dream; Christians killing Muslims and Muslims killing Christians. What could be better than that? Well, Whites killing non-Whites and non-Whites killing Whites, of course.
#162. To: BTP Holdings (#154)
The statement was past tense, as in HAVE HAD. As to putting up with people, living in Missouri is far different from where I lived, and it was far different 20 years ago as well. And, the process that I and my friends used are hardly appropriate to today. I have looked at your paperwork, and I suspect that it does suffice, today. That does not mean that you can use THEIR system against them indefinately. They will adjust, as it is their system. As to having a plan, why, yes, I do, thank you for asking.
I thought you said you would never own another gun.
The Talmudic Khazar-Jew dream; Christians killing Muslims and Muslims killing Christians. What could be better than that? Well, Whites killing non-Whites and non-Whites killing Whites, of course.
#163. To: BTP Holdings (#144)
This is the site used in More Blonde Jokes II; http://famguardian.org/Subjects/Taxes/ChallJurisdiction/FedSubjMtrJurisdiction.h tm Foreign government: "The government of the United States of America as distinguished from the government of the several states." [Black's Law Dictionary, 5th Edition] Foreign laws: "The laws of a foreign country or sister state." [Black's Law Dictionary, 6th Edition] Foreign States: "Nations outside of the United States...Term may also refer to another state; i.e. a sister state. The term "foreign nations', ...should be construed to mean all nations and states other than that in which the action is brought; and hence, one state of the Union is foreign to another, in that sense." [Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition] Unless expressly provided otherwise in the law itself, all laws passed by the U.S. Congress shall conclusively be presumed to apply only within the former, or first of the two jurisdictions, called the federal zone, above. "A canon of construction which teaches that of Congress, unless a contrary intent appears, is meant to apply only within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States." U.S. v. Spelar, 338 U.S. 217 at 222 (1949) All of this is confirmed by Thomas Jefferson, one of our founding fathers, who said at http://e text.lib.virginia.edu/jefferson/quotations/jeff1050.htm: "With respect to our State and federal governments, I do not think their relations are correctly understood by foreigners. They generally suppose the former subordinate to the latter. But this is not the case. They are co- ordinate departments of one simple and integral whole. To the State governments are reserved all legislative and administration, in affairs which concern their own citizens only, and to the federal government is given whatever concerns foreigners, or the citizens of the other States; these functions alone being made federal. The one is domestic, the other the foreign branch of the same government; neither having control over the other, but within its own department." -- Thomas Jefferson ["Writing of Thomas Jefferson" pub by Taylor & Maury, Washington DC, 1854, quote number VII 355-61, from correspondence to Major John Cartwright, June 5, 1824.] The important question then arises: "How can we know which laws apply to each jurisdiction?" Here are the ways: First, we examine the U.S. Constitution to determine the specific delegated power from which the authority to legislate derives. If Congress is exercising a delegated power authorized by the Constitution as applicable within the 50 states, then it applies there as well as in the federal zone. Next we look at the definition of the term "United States" used in the legislation or statutes themselves. If legislation refers to the District of Columbia as its meaning of the word "State", for instance, such as the Internal Revenue Code does in 26 U.S.C. §7701(a)(9), then the legislation must be presumed to only apply within the federal zone. If the above are inconclusive, we examine court cases. Ibid; Yes, I understand; there is nobody, or as close to nobody as it does not matter, home in the Republic. Everyone has become 14th Amendment citizens resident in the one of the several states. I understand, and that does not change what Justice Harlan stated in his objection to the upholding the decision in [Downes v. Bidwell, 182 U.S. 244 (1901)]. .... we have in this country substantially or practically two national governments ... And he added; ... We will, in that event, pass from the era of constitutional liberty guarded and protected by a written constitution into an era of legislative absolutism. ... Does that sound familiar? You know, sooner or later, everyone will have to come to grips with one simple fact; something is wrong. It does not do to make statements like; they are violating the Constitution! That will work until you realize that this means that EVERY one of the federal judges is a criminal upholding criminal actions everywhere. And I do not buy that; I think a lot of federal judges are honest and straight forward; it is not their responsibility to protect us from ourselves. It is a political question, and until you, and I, and a lot more Americans understand what the problem is, nothing, but nothing, can be fixed. And your route, saving a couple here and there, will guarentee not only that those few you save are not saved (becuase they will be amoung the first rounded up), but it will mean that the round-up WILL occur. Somewhere, there is a jurisdiction where the Constitution does not apply. That much is obvious, and every day you are told, by the politicians and the media that you live in the greatest Democracy that has ever existed. Perhaps you should listen to what they have to say. By the way, perhaps you should look at the post, Who Controls the United States, Part 2. I think you will enjoy the part about Social Security. I also think, and I have been waiting for you to do so, that you need to make a disclousure to everyone that you have a personal stake in the position that you advocate.
I guess you don't. Maybe this all will help, but I doubt it.
The Talmudic Khazar-Jew dream; Christians killing Muslims and Muslims killing Christians. What could be better than that? Well, Whites killing non-Whites and non-Whites killing Whites, of course.
#164. To: Critter (#156)
Please permit me to think about this. However, I have stopped, 15 years ago when my first wife got sick, in keeping up with the theories and practical results of actions taken. I certainly do not have any faith that anything works if THEY decide not to permit it. I would be more inclined to write something about why no contracts and the meaning of contracts rather than how/why/when etc. If I fail to get back to you in a week about this, please ping me (I am forgetful).
I still need people to write articles
The Talmudic Khazar-Jew dream; Christians killing Muslims and Muslims killing Christians. What could be better than that? Well, Whites killing non-Whites and non-Whites killing Whites, of course.
#165. To: richard9151 (#162)
The judges are bound to uphold the code and if they change any of it, they run the risk of invalidating the entire scam. The commercial rules are set and to change them would cause great upheaval in the corporate sector. There would be a great many fascists upset with any changes. And besides, the few who are doing this is of little consequence. That is why we need more students and more to "do the deed."
That does not mean that you can use THEIR system against them indefinately. They will adjust, as it is their system.
“The tendency of democracies is, in all things, to mediocrity, since the tastes, knowledge, and principles of the majority form the tribunal of appeal.” James Fenimore Cooper
#166. To: richard9151 (#163)
Does that sound familiar? You know, sooner or later, everyone will have to come to grips with one simple fact; something is wrong. It does not do to make statements like; they are violating the Constitution! That will work until you realize that this means that EVERY one of the federal judges is a criminal upholding criminal actions everywhere. And I do not buy that; I think a lot of federal judges are honest and straight forward; it is not their responsibility to protect us from ourselves. It is a political question, and until you, and I, and a lot more Americans understand what the problem is, nothing, but nothing, can be fixed. And your route, saving a couple here and there, will guarentee not only that those few you save are not saved (becuase they will be amoung the first rounded up), but it will mean that the round-up WILL occur. Somewhere, there is a jurisdiction where the Constitution does not apply. That much is obvious, and every day you are told, by the politicians and the media that you live in the greatest Democracy that has ever existed. Perhaps you should listen to what they have to say. They are doing it now, richard. The jurisdiction is their extra-constitutional, quasi-criminal, administrative law. So stop dancing around and see the real point. How do you expect the brainwashed sheeple to know enough to get out of the fraud? Most of them will not bother since they are too busy trying to live and make ends meet. If there is a round up coming, all I can say is, they can kill ya, but they can't eat ya. ;0)
... We will, in that event, pass from the era of constitutional liberty guarded and protected by a written constitution into an era of legislative absolutism. ...
“The tendency of democracies is, in all things, to mediocrity, since the tastes, knowledge, and principles of the majority form the tribunal of appeal.” James Fenimore Cooper
#167. To: richard9151 (#161)
I can say Idaho easily......however, my copy of the Constitution does not call for your mode of amending. Article 5: The Congress, whenever two-thirds of both houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose amendments to this Constitution, or, on the application of the legislatures of two-thirds of the several states, shall call a convention for proposing amendments, which, in either case, shall be valid for all intents and purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the legislatures of three-fourths of the several states, or by conventions in three-fourths thereof, as the one or the other mode of ratification may be proposed by the congress; provided that no amendment which may be made prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any manner affect the first and fourth clauses in the ninth section of the first article; and that no state, without its consent, shall be deprived of its equal suffrage in the senate. The states can request a con- con to propose amendments. They do not have the same authority as Congress to propose and send out for ratification by the states any amendments. If you have something that differs, I'd like to see it/hear it.
Each state or one state proposes an amendment, which is then submitted to all of the other states and to the Congress. It has never been done, but as the states are party to the Constitution, it is legal. And once the Amendment is on the table, nearly impossible to kill it; and the debate then begins, and, one would hope, the awakening. So, all that is neccessary is one state... can anyone say... Idaho?
#168. To: rowdee (#167)
I did have. I will have to see if I can find it. I lost a lot of paper when I moved, and may not have it. As I recall, the paper was based on states being a party to the Constitution, and the Congress could not refuse to entertain an amendment proposed by a state. I will see what I can find. And, the same holds true, if the process is started in one state, then the discussion spreads from there. The main issue is to force the discussion open for all to see. Aftr all, if a sufficient number of people are aware and talking about the problem, it only takes one Representative to propose the Amendment. In that case, can you say, Texas?
If you have something that differs,
The Talmudic Khazar-Jew dream; Christians killing Muslims and Muslims killing Christians. What could be better than that? Well, Whites killing non-Whites and non-Whites killing Whites, of course.
#169. To: Neil McIver, BTP Holdings, wbales, Tausero, christine, jessejane, RickyJ, mehtable, Zoroaster, robin, Eoghan, tom007, Jethro Tull, lodwick, angel, AngelSpawn, max, phant2000, range, all (#168)
NUTSHELL Now that we have got the supporting documentation out of the way, please permit me the opportunity to place a nutshell explanation in the record. There is a problem in America. Everybody knows this, but no one can agree as to what, exactly, is the problem. Everybody wants to discuss the sleight of hand of some Supreme Court Justices in 1933, or the bankruptcy of the United States government in 1929, or the Trading With the Enemy Act in 1917, or the Federal Reserve Act in 1913, or, the more radical of the Patriot groups will only discuss the Civil War and the actions of the United States government going forward from that time. If you will notice something about each of these arguments, they go backward in time, getting older and older as the discussions drag on and on and on. But no one can agree as to what, exactly, is THE problem. Are the things enumerated above, problems? Of course they are, but it is silly to fragment ourselves arguing about which is the first problem, which is the most important problem, and what is necessary to fix each and every problem…. Unless we FIRST identify what permitted each and every one of these problems to occur. It is also silly to run around in circles screaming about they are ignoring the Constitution when federal judges keep telling us that this or that is not a Constitutional issue, and they are correct, it is not. It is generally a contractual problem/issue. So, here is THE problem, in a NUTSHELL: Article 1, Section 8, Clause 17 of the Constitution is called the Exclusive Jurisdiction clause in the Constitution. United States v. Cornell 25 Fed. Cas. 646, no. 14,867 C.C.D.R.I. 1819 … It is under the like terms in the same clause of the constitution that exclusive jurisdiction is now exercised by congress in the District of Columbia … In Downes v. Bidwell, 1901, the Supreme Court ruled that "exclusive" meant exactly that; EXCLUSIVE jurisdiction, with no control from the Constitution. (In Downes v. Bidwell, the Court ruled that "exclusive" meant "without consideration of the Constitutional restraints...") "without consideration of the Constitutional restraints...") means exactly what it says; under the exclusive jurisdiction of the Congress, the limitations on governmental power enumerated within the Constitution, DO NOT APPLY. This means that there are no Constitutional limitations of power exercised within the United States Federal Zone. The Constitution was NEVER meant to apply to the exclusive jurisdiction of the Congress. How do we know this? Because in politics there are no accidents. If this had been an accident, it would have been corrected long ago, and it has not been. I would assume that this means that unless the people correct it, it will never be corrected. Now, we have a Supreme Court Justice who addressed these issues in 1901. Justice Harlan said; The idea prevails with some -- indeed, it found expression in arguments at the bar -- that we have in this country substantially or practically two national governments; one, to be maintained under the Constitution, with all its restrictions; the other to be maintained by Congress outside and independently of that instrument, by exercising such powers as other nations of the earth are accustomed to exercise. Justice Harlan was right on the mark. He knew what he was talking about, but only a very few attorneys and the like would have been interested, because there simply were no people under the EXCLUSIVE JURISDICTION of Congress in 1901. Basically, the only United States citizens who existed were the former slaves of the South, and they had no knowledge or understanding of what was being done to them. So most of what Justice Harlan had to say just went into the history books and it was pretty much the end of the story (until now). But, Justice Harlan then went on to add; I take leave to say that if the principles thus announced should ever receive the sanction of a majority of this court, a radical and mischievous change in our system of government will be the result. We will, in that event, pass from the era of constitutional liberty guarded and protected by a written constitution into an era of legislative absolutism. ... It will be an evil day for American liberty if the theory of a government outside of the supreme law of the land finds lodgment in our constitutional jurisprudence. No higher duty rests upon this court than to exert its full authority to prevent all violation of the principles of the Constitution. Now if this strikes a bell with you; We will, in that event, pass from the era of constitutional liberty guarded and protected by a written constitution into an era of legislative absolutism. ... Then perhaps you should take a close look at what is causing the problems we are experiencing today; Article 1, Section 8, Clause 17; EXCLUSIVE JURISDICTION. And if you study the Fourteenth Amendment, it was intended to put United States citizens under the EXCLUSIVE JURISDICTION of Congress. What does my proposed Amendment do? Simple. It applies the Constitution to the Federal Zone. Now, the question was asked, do I have a plan? Why, yes, thank you for asking, I do indeed have a plan. NOTE; I have posted this in this thread, however I am going to create a new post named NUTSHELL, and will ping you when it is up. Please post all comments in the new thread. Thank you.
The Talmudic Khazar-Jew dream; Christians killing Muslims and Muslims killing Christians. What could be better than that? Well, Whites killing non-Whites and non-Whites killing Whites, of course.
#170. To: richard9151, Christine, Aristeides, Honway, Critter, BTP Holdings, wbales, Tausero, christine, jessejane, RickyJ, mehtable, Zoroaster, robin, Eoghan, tom007, Jethro Tull, Neil McIver, lodwick, angel, AngelSpawn, , range, all (#145)
DickeyBird, By any standard you are way fucked up; which requires no magnitude of "track record." Citing material out of context is "disinformation," regardless of what package you wrap it in. In short, you're incredibly transparent and deserve no respect or regard to possessing any significant measure of credibility. Your consistent 'out-of-context' material tells all that you can't be trusted; therefore you're another joke, in the league of "BAC," bearing an uncanny style to his. Why waste everyone's time and energy - other than a well-known style of disinformation?
#171. To: SKYDRIFTER (#170)
I bozo'd him back around comment 30 or 40. I kinda figured I wouldn't be missing much.
#172. To: richard9151 (#168)
Count me out of whatever your project is. I, for one, certainly need more than what you offer up as proof something can or can't be done. I just reviewed Article V at the Cornell Law site and find that their wording is the same as what my copy here at home is. Until you can show where there has been a change, properly ratified, that changes it, I believe you're misleading people. I can guarantee you that should one state or 3/4 of them ask Congress to convene a convention for the purpose of enacting a single solitary 'little' ol change to the Constitution, Pandora's Box would never be shut. And there is no way that 536 political hacks would just sit back and say, 'help yourselves folks'....and that isn't even considering any of the handlers or behind the scenes power brokers. You want something meaningful---start with restoring senators to being appointed by their own states; that way states have representation in gubmint.......and guess what.....that one wouldn't make it thru either. There are too many $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ floating out there; and they don't want to have to deal with entire state legislative bodies. Its much easier to buy off 100 rather than the several thousands collectively from the 50 states plus any territorial or otherwise representatives.
#173. To: rowdee (#167)
And this shows the 17th Amendment was another fraud since those states which failed to ratify (it should have been 100%) lost their equal suffrage, and had no say whatsoever in the matter. Those of us in the know have been on to this for some time. Just thought it prudent to point it out again. That is the major reason to repeal the 17th Amendment and put things right in the process.
and that no state, without its consent, shall be deprived of its equal suffrage in the senate.
“The tendency of democracies is, in all things, to mediocrity, since the tastes, knowledge, and principles of the majority form the tribunal of appeal.” James Fenimore Cooper
#174. To: BTP Holdings (#173)
Believe it or not, once upon a time, a long time ago, the owner at tos1 was a strong proponent on working to repeal the 17th. Nowadays, it seems like he just prefers a dictator with a goon squad.
#175. To: rowdee (#125)
I have been thinking about what you wrote. Let me give you another thought about this.... what if that battalion of Iraq police were pulled out because they had seen some things that they were not supposed to see.... ummm? I just saw a video that I never heard of before; it was posted this afternoon on 4um; For those who really want a look into the sleeze and lies behind the so-called terror attacks, take a look at this free video, please. http://video.google.com/videoplay? docid=786048453686176230&q=TerrorStorm&hl=en It goes back to what the President of Iran said about representatives of the US government meeting with, arming and funding the insurgents in Iraq. I would believe him before I would believe anyone in Washington, DC, so, if they pulled the plug on those they are funding/arming, peace would decend in a minute. I would think so, anyway.
anyone deciding anything in BagHdad about doing anything by partitioning IRAN is so full of shit!
#176. To: richard9151 (#175)
richard_666 Please connect the Jesuits and the Masons to your yarn. Thanks.
#177. To: richard9151 (#175)
Richard, regardless of why they were pulled out of police work, the attacks there are getting worse, not better.....to fill the gap, the old 'stand up because they can't yet' routine, they are filling the gap with us soldiers. And right now we are losing them to the tune of nearly 5 a day. We're already shorthanded there--look at all the retired military heads that are agreeing with what Shinskiski (sp) said back before the damned war began. And while they can't even protect the green zone now, they're going to partition IRAN? You don't dod that wiwth bombs......that takes boots on the ground==boots and bullshit. I can see them partitioning Iraq--I've said that from the get/go-- it would be a natural, and it would help maintain our hold on any oil that comes from there. Iran is NOT Iraq.
#178. To: rowdee (#177)
If I said Iran, I am sorry; I also said Bagdad (I know how to spell it, rowdee), Iraq is what is going to be partioned. And that could very well be the October surprise that Rove has promised.
I can see them partitioning Iraq
The Solution is to apply, for the first time in the history of the United States, the Constitution to Washington, D.C.
#179. To: BTP Holdings, rowdee, christine, critter, lodwick, max, phant2000, RickyJ, all (#173)
Ahhh, you Constitutionalists, I thought that you would see what happens when, for the first time in the history of the United States, the Constitution was applied to Washington, DC, but I guess it has to be spelled out, step-by-step: Fourteenth Amendment, Black’s Law Dictionary, 6th Edition: The Fourteenth Amendment of the Constitution of the United States, ratified in 1868, creates or at least recognizes for the first time a citizenship of the United States, as distinct from that of the states;… "The amendment (fourteenth) reversed and annulled the original policy of the constitution," United States v. Rhodes, 27 Federal Cases, 785, 794 And I have read the Supreme Court of Utah decision that declared the Fourteenth Amendment to be UnConstitutional; very lucid, very on-point, except.... IT ONLY APPLIES TO WASHINGTON, DC. So, what happens if you apply the Constitution to Washington, DC? Why, the Fourteenth Amendment disappears! "The rights of citizens of the state, as such, are not under consideration in the fourteenth amendment. They stand as they did before the adoption of the fourteenth amendment, and are fully guaranteed by other provisions." United States v. Anthony 24 Federal Cases 829, 830. “The rights of a citizen under one (state or United States citizenship) may be quite different from those which he has under the other...” Colgate v. Harvey, 296 US 404, 429. What is the Constitution? Lysander Spooner, in his 1869 treatise titled No Treason, said it very well: “The Constitution has no inherent authority or obligation. It has no authority or obligation at all, unless as a contract between man and man.” And by the way, what about the Thirteenth Amendment? "The thirteenth amendment is a great extension of the powers of the national government." United States v. Morris, 125 Federal Reporter, page 322, 325. So what happens to the Thirteenth Amendment once the Constitution is applied to Washington, DC? Why, it disappears, of course. How about the 17th Amendment? It is unConstitutional on its face, and it also disappears. JUST LIKE THAT!! Oh, and did someone ask if I had a plan? Why, yes, I do, and thank you for asking! Here is a small part; This is what is called a hot button item: the constitution DOES NOT apply to Washington, DC (with a little supporting info). That means that EVERYONE who hates Washington, DC; dem, repug, independent, does not matter; they all hate Washington, DC., all of them. And once they are told that the Constitution HAS NEVER applied to Washington, DC, well, you figure it out. I am really surprised at all of you so-called patriots. In the other locations where I am talking about this, two caught on right away. For instance, one message to me was; JESUS CHRIST! You are talking about cancelling all of the amendments from the Thirteenth on! To which I simply replied, why, yes, thank you for noticing. If the Amendments are against the Constitutional restraints detailed within the Constitution, once the Constitution is applied to Washington, DC, then they are of no force and effect and become simply a footnote in history. Oh, and by the way, this also destroys the UnConstitutional police powers, such as the FBI and etc. And the Federal Reserve. Now, is this going to be accepted without question? Of course not; there would be a howl of gigantic volume come out of every attorney and criminal in Washington, DC, and they would react. I suspect you would get your wish about a round-up..... BUT, it would not be done when they want to do it, and, we would have an opportunity to galvanize the people, so that some small measure of understanding could begin to chip away at the power structure. But hey, WHAT DO I KNOW! (And do not lecture me about what I know about the Constitution, please.)
repeal the 17th Amendment and put things right in the process.
The Solution is to apply, for the first time in the history of the United States, the Constitution to Washington, D.C.
#180. To: BTP Holdings, rowdee, christine, critter, lodwick, max, phant2000, RickyJ, all (#178)
Just a little add-on; this amendment would also do away with NAFTA, WTO, the connection to the World Bank, and etc. Can anyone here see just a small bit of the possibilities in tying together ALL of the fragmented efforts to correct things within the United States? Because this is the ONLY way to correct EVERY problem at one stroke. Just perhaps you should take a day or so and think about it.
The Solution is to apply, for the first time in the history of the United States, the Constitution to Washington, D.C.
#181. To: richard9151 (#178)
Whew. I was hoping we wouldn't be thaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat stoopid. Your comment makes more sense now. As i noted earlier, I believe that has been the intent from early on. After all, it is so much easier and less costly to have 3 crippled governments fighting with each other. Hell, they may even make Baghdad a 4th country!
#182. To: richard9151 (#178)
That wouldn't be an action that could affect the election. BFD would be the mindset of the sheeple--too stuck in stoopid to see any ramifications, or realize that they could divide it into 100 countries and that wouldn't bring any more soldiers out of there. It wouldn't stop the flow of $$$$$$$$$$ over there. And frankly, I believe it is too late to have a hope of ever taking life back to something it was BEFORE terriers struck!
And that could very well be the October surprise that Rove has promised.
#183. To: rowdee (#181)
I really need to double-triple check what I send out.... BUT, it is nearly impossible to double check your own writings. I learned this long ago; you can find some errors, BUT YOU WROTE IT, and it connects somewhere in your brain that it is all right.... oh what to do! But I am sorry for the confusion. On the election, we have about a month right now, and an announcement that the agreement has been reached, that we are going to IMMEDIATLEY begin to withdraw troops as a part of the AGREEMENT as this is the wish of the Iraqi people and that the first troops would be home before Nov. 7 (naw, little too obvious!), that Iraq is PARTIONED so that each group has their own laws, schools, legislature and etc., and that Bagdad is now SEPARATE just as Washington, DC, is, with ALL IRAQIs having access, as is their RIGHT, why, can you just sense the relief that would flow through the US sheeple? I don´t know. I just know how gullible are the sheeple, and I can think of nothing else that would pave the way for the planned war with Iran like WINNING THE WAR IN IRAQ, and incidently, keeping control of the oil in Iraq, as I mentioned in the first ill-written post. Esp. if it was explained at the same time that THIS HAS BEEN THE PLAN ALL ALONG BUT WE COULD NOT COME OUT AND TALK ABOUT IT UNTIL IT WAS REALITY. But, we knew what we were doing and THIS IS WHAT IS BEST FOR THE ENTIRE MIDDLE EAST. Oh, and trust us, the war in Iran is neccessary and trust us, we also have a plan for Iran, oh, and trust us, we know what we are doing....... we know what we are doing.......we know what we are doing.......we know what we are doing.......we know what we are doing.......we know what we are doing.......we know what we are doing....... And in case the sheeple do not understand repeat endlessly; we know what we are doing.......
thaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat stoopid.
The Solution is to apply, for the first time in the history of the United States, the Constitution to Washington, D.C.
#184. To: richard9151 (#183)
Done for emphasis....deliberately.....as is the mispelling of stoopid. That personally is how I look at the sheeple. At this point in time, with all the fan slinging that is and will occur til the first week in November, it wouldn't take very much on the part of the demowits to show this up as just a 'tactical' electioneering gimmick. Enough of the sheeple are disgusted with the republocraps they'd even be able to see thru that phony routine. Trust will be a big gimmick this go round........especially when it is out there about who do you trust with your kids.......trust, trust, trust........24/7. Little things like a clip of hastert saying, 'I didn't do anything wrong", followed by a teenager or a mom responding with 'and you certainly didn't do anything right'!........followed by clips of various identified 'r' representatives saying they would have handled it differently......or they figured he was taking care of it. And it wouldn't take much, especially in light of the recent killing of all those little girls at the Amish school, or another run of predators after children, to keep the cannonball aimed squarely at the ballot box. Safety for children will outweigh years of a war that does nothing but kill and maim and take money away from education or health care or whatever other programs can be tied to children and families.
thaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat stoopid.
#185. To: BTP Holdings, richard9151, Zipporah, christine, lodwick, Neil McGiver (#165)
A tardy afterthought: Do you recall when the SCOTUS split along party lines 5 to 4 and handed Bush the presidency, and, ordered that their decision not be used as a precedent in any other case? And, did you happen to notice that Bush and his bobbleheaded attorney general have trimmed fat off of the US Constitution, The UCMJ, federal statutes and the Geneva Convention with signing statements, and not one congressman, senator, federal justice, judge or magistrate or any flag officer with the authority to arrest the bastards for his open treason emitted a peep of objection? The reality is this: Not one career office holder will risk his or her pension to simply save the American people from the inevitable march of jackboots over us. The best chance we had were the cadets of West Point who spoke against the unlawful war, until they were given a direct order to waive their now dead constitutional right to speak, even if they were making the charge of treason. The truth is even if they succeeded and the president and his cronies were impeached or indicted, charged and convicted, sentenced and hanged, the cadets would still be guilty of disobeying a direct order and they would lose their commissions, and none of them are willing to sacrifice their military family legacies just for a bunch of greedy, socialist Lilliputian welfare state-worshiping dumb asses who dont vote and most of who don't even know who their congressman and two senators are. And, if the cadets lose their commissions and their bright futures, they will have lost much more than the people who don't even know what rights have been stripped away in broad daylight as the president signed those bills on the White House lawn. I can see it now: The Supreme Court ruled that the UCC does not apply to one component of American Commercial law-the registration of automobiles. "We find that because public safety is paramount and more lives are lost in car crashes because of unsafe vehicles than are lost to accidental or intentional homicides with firearms, the recent legal maneuvering to attempt to defeat the mandatory registration, licensing, inspection and safe operation of motor vehicles or any powered conveyence intended for commercial or recreational transportation of goods and people are an issue of national security. We hold for the state and remand to the lower court for sentencing....."
The judges are bound to uphold the code and if they change any of it, they run the risk of invalidating the entire scam. The commercial rules are set and to change them would cause great upheaval in the corporate sector. There would be a great many fascists upset with any changes. And besides, the few who are doing this is of little consequence.
#186. To: HOUNDDAWG (#185)
The Supreme Court ruled that the UCC does not apply to one component of American Commercial law-the registration of automobiles. "We find that because public safety is paramount and more lives are lost in car crashes because of unsafe vehicles than are lost to accidental or intentional homicides with firearms, the recent legal maneuvering to attempt to defeat the mandatory registration, licensing, inspection and safe operation of motor vehicles or any powered conveyence intended for commercial or recreational transportation of goods and people are an issue of national security. I doubt that. They can't change the code. If you had an inkling of how it operates under law (the legal term is "operation of law") you would not be saying this. The only reason they get away with all of this is that the people, through their ignorance, have allowed it to happen. If we did our due diligence and knew the law which our nation was founded under, these crooks would be swinging from lamp posts. One of these days, the people will realize that it is their dependence on the nanny state which has caused their loss of liberty. Unfortunately, by that time it will be too late.
I can see it now:
“The tendency of democracies is, in all things, to mediocrity, since the tastes, knowledge, and principles of the majority form the tribunal of appeal.” James Fenimore Cooper
#187. To: HOUNDDAWG (#185)
there ya go. some days, it's just so difficult to retain even a smidgen of hope.
And, if the cadets lose their commissions and their bright futures, they will have lost much more than the people who don't even know what rights have been stripped away in broad daylight as the president signed those bills on the White House lawn.
#188. To: BTP Holdings (#186)
Oh, right! I forgot that Moses brought the tablets down from the mount straight from the big guy himself! The UCC is no more sacred than the Constitution, The Geneva Accords, or the US Code. Your beliefs are an act of faith, and there is simply no statutory ban to amending the code. It doesn't exist. Here is a proposed amendment to the code. No mention of the statutory ban that must be defeated to effect this or any other change!
They can't change the code.
#189. To: christine (#187)
As long as you are breathing and thinking there is hope. Dark, dark and terrible days may come, but hope always always follows.
some days, it's just so difficult to retain even a smidgen of hope.
the law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal bread.
#190. To: christine (#187)
Well, I agree with you and hope for the fraud ($) to collapse. Since most of these would-be traitors are loyal to nothing but their checks, and even more produce nothing of any tangible worth, our best hope is the collapse of the ewe gno watt. And, then we can pay the federal reserve (sic) swindlers off with their own worthless paper. And if they demand gold we'll just remind them how they told us that it's a "barbaric metal!"
some days, it's just so difficult to retain even a smidgen of hope.
#191. To: HOUNDDAWG, christine, noone222, innieway, Critter, All (#188)
Oh, right! I forgot that Moses brought the tablets down from the mount straight from the big guy himself! The UCC is no more sacred than the Constitution, The Geneva Accords, or the US Code. Your beliefs are an act of faith, and there is simply no statutory ban to amending the code. It doesn't exist. Here is a proposed amendment to the code. No mention of the statutory ban that must be defeated to effect this or any other change! You are barking up the wrong tree on this. Perhaps I should have been more specific. A sitting judge cannot change the code. The judge must rule as the code specifies and the judiciary must uphold the code lest they create havoc in the commercial realm. The UCC is in fact changed regularly, sometimes concerning matters such as those in the link you posted, which has to do with the electronic age and undertaking contracts over the internet. What you fail to understand is that there are many provisions in the code which, if changed, would change the way the law has come to be used and seen as a protection for all parties. These provisions can be used to best advantage and I have done so myself previously. It is factual to say that if you partake of their Babylonian system and are not aware of the rules in the code, you are either a fool or a knave, and will certainly become enslaved, which indeed most are (unbeknownst to them), and much to their lament. Collection agencies, for one example, operate in the most reprehensible manner (we have something to defeat them as well) and take advantage of people's ignorance to rope them into a contract which they have no right to do. This is called "the acceptance game." It operates every day in many ways, even among our so-called government, and the only reason we are fooled is because we fail to question authority and accept what they do or give us, like that damn traffic ticket (refuse it and do what the statutes call for). The basic law is the same in all the states, even in the statutes concerning matters of which we can hold our servants within the strict limits of their authority. I will say again, as I have already in this thread, the key to this is education. And the only way to control this scheme being used against us is to know the rules and take the necessary steps to protect oneself and terminate or control the legal nexus (of which there are several) so you can make the system work for you and not them. Anyone who wishes to know what the "necessary steps" are can send me a PM or email me at admin[no spam]btpholdings.com (Replace the [no spam] with @ to get the address correct.) Put UCC Solution or Demand to Cease and Desist Collection Activities (for the collection agencies noted above) in the subject line and I will send more info on either or both subjects.
They can't change the code.
“The tendency of democracies is, in all things, to mediocrity, since the tastes, knowledge, and principles of the majority form the tribunal of appeal.” James Fenimore Cooper
#192. To: BTP Holdings (#191)
Actually, you have de-mystified the UCC considerably for me and I appreciate it. The tax rebs and others who rely on it may be correct in their interpretations and applications of same, but, I'm still suspicious of the "silver bullet" approach to dismantling the evil income tax. And, as you or someone else mentioned, the few who do drop out are of no consequence now, but, if the method "catches on" and the federal reserve finds it's short on deposits from payroll withholding for "income and social security" taxes, then the IRS will make the appropriate changes to restore the "de facto taxation by distraint" system we have today. As you know federal district courts may err as much as they wish, secure in the knowledge that the SCOTUS will never grant cert to any case that could potentially harm their beloved redistribution of wealth system.
#193. To: HOUNDDAWG (#192)
And, as you or someone else mentioned, the few who do drop out are of no consequence now, but, if the method "catches on" and the federal reserve finds it's short on deposits from payroll withholding for "income and social security" taxes, then the IRS will make the appropriate changes to restore the "de facto taxation by distraint" system we have today. Thanks, but I'm not so very good since there is much I need to do so as to get a better grasp of things. The IRS is already doing it. They even are fooling their own people by lying to them. The fact is the IRS is doing what cannot be done legally. Save-A-Patriot Fellowship is doing the right thing by teaching the law, and exposing the IRS lies and deceit. What we are doing with the UCC (SAPF does not go that route) is to give them a piece of paper which they use to balance the books (after the lie has been perpetrated). The key is that the SSN is the proof that you are the debtor and have applied for benefits. Whether you receive them or not is of no consequence. They use the presumption that you are benefitting in some way. Basically, limited liability is a benefit of the use of their FRNs since all debts must be discharged. We no longer have the ablility to pay a debt. It's a long drawn out explanation if I continue. But the SSN and your birth registration are the basis of how they have leveraged the capacity for production of all the citizens as collateral on the international securities markets. They have literally mortgaged the entire country and us along with it, plus future generations into infinity. The question is, when will the creditors (int'l bankers) move to foreclose? While we have our guns, they will not try. But the police state grip is tightening. And, as Jack McLamb has said, they will simply redefine all of us as criminals and then there will be no problem with eliminating us. The Nazis did exactly that. In a different vein, check out this article. http://freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi? ArtNum=36931&Disp=0
Actually, you have de-mystified the UCC considerably for me and I appreciate it.
“The tendency of democracies is, in all things, to mediocrity, since the tastes, knowledge, and principles of the majority form the tribunal of appeal.” James Fenimore Cooper
#194. To: BTP Holdings (#193)
I know a chap who travels around the country speaking to small groups about the UCC and the things you just mentioned. I never signed on because I believe that the collapse and inevitable hardships won't be derailed no matter how many drop out. I also believe that despite all the "cold, dead fingers" rhetoric we've heard over the years, the majority will surrender their guns AND MINE if that's what it takes to keep those social security checks coming. And, those patriots who bury their guns and armor piercing stuffings in PVC pipes are just too clever by half! I mean, what good are they then? "Oh, we'll dig them up when it's safe to resist!" Right, when a million armed people march ahead of them they'll dig up their guns and bring up the rear, or, possibly come down from the hills after the battles and slay the wounded.
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