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War, War, War
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Title: Two Marines Killed In Fighting In Anbar Province; 23 U.S. servicemembers killed in Iraq this week...
Source: Associated Press
URL Source: http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006 ... /ME_GEN_Iraq_US_Casualties.php
Published: Oct 5, 2006
Author: Associated Press
Post Date: 2006-10-05 17:16:13 by Brian S
Keywords: None
Views: 392
Comments: 28

Two Marines killed in fighting in Anbar province The Associated Press

Published: October 5, 2006

BAGHDAD, Iraq Two U.S. Marines were killed in fighting in Iraq's western Anbar province, a hotbed of the Shiite insurgency, the U.S. command announced Thursday.

The two Marines, assigned to Regimental Combat Team 7, were killed from "enemy action" on Wednesday, the command said in a statement.

It provided no further details and said their names were being withheld pending notification of their families. Their deaths brought to 23 the number of U.S. servicemembers killed in Iraq this week.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 12.

#4. To: Brian S (#0)

23 U.S. servicemembers killed in Iraq this week...

How many of the 23 were killed by small arms fire? And what does this change in enemy tactics signify?

aristeides  posted on  2006-10-05   17:32:36 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I agree with Burkeman1, this demonstrates greater strength on the insurgency. It also shows that their tactics and training are improving, and they're growing in confidence. Traditionally, a prudent enemy commander wouldn't countenance giving battle with the US forces anywhere. Now it appears that they're more willing to take that risk, which doesn't bode well for us. They could also be getting more accurate with their firing. For at least two years it was always said that "spray and pray" was the firing technique of choice for the insurgency. Maybe that's changed a bit.

I spoke at length with a Major that was over there with me about how he would train if he was leading them, and what tactics he would use. It was really a common sense type of approach, with in the beginning use ambushes and occasional indirect fire until they're well trained enough to combine an ambush with indirect fire and possibly IEDs. The insurgency has pretty much followed a similar path.

One thing that weakens this argument a little bit is that the Marines were issued the SAPI plates for their body armor (after the scandal about the quality of the armor) but they decided that mobility was more important than protection, as the plates make the armor quite heavy. If one is doing a foot patrol as opposed to a mounted patrol, the body armor wears you out. Since the Marines possibly aren't wearing the extra protective plates, they would have more small arms casualties that the plates would have stopped otherwise. As an aside, I worked last year with a different Major who was involved with the procurement of the body armor, and the PM that was handling it one day looked at him and said "There are worse things than dying, you know." It was a statement in response to all the horrificly maimed soldiers who would have died except for the armor keeping their vital portions so well protected that multiple limbs were destroyed during an attack.

historian1944  posted on  2006-10-05   18:34:38 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

#14. To: historian1944 (#12)

As we get absolutley no details of the fighting in our controlled censored press I have read alternative media that suggests nearly every "smalls arms hostile fire" death (before this "Baghdad offensive" in the last few days) has been from sniper fire and that these deaths are increasing.

Sniper war is perhaps the worst sort of warfare a second generation military can endure. It is morale draining and maddening. Death at any second- often without the shot even being heard in congested city streets with traffic noise. Just intant death. Of course I imagine the reaction to such deaths by the troops that just suffered a sniper casualty isn't too healthy for the civilians who just happen to be in the area.

Burkeman1  posted on  2006-10-05 19:47:02 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

The single greatest life saver in this war has been the development of quick clotting agents that stop bleeding almost immediately even on massive wounds. Men who would have died in minutes after having their lower half blown off have been saved. All sorts utterly disfiguring injuries that no one would have thought possible to be survivable have been treated successfully in Iraq.

The flip side of this is that you have many many soliders who are little more than a torso and head or wounded in such ways that by all right they shouldn't be alive- often with brain damage as well. Things worse than death? Yep.

Burkeman1  posted on  2006-10-05 19:57:57 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

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