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War, War, War
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Title: Two Marines Killed In Fighting In Anbar Province; 23 U.S. servicemembers killed in Iraq this week...
Source: Associated Press
URL Source: http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006 ... /ME_GEN_Iraq_US_Casualties.php
Published: Oct 5, 2006
Author: Associated Press
Post Date: 2006-10-05 17:16:13 by Brian S
Keywords: None
Views: 417
Comments: 28

Two Marines killed in fighting in Anbar province The Associated Press

Published: October 5, 2006

BAGHDAD, Iraq Two U.S. Marines were killed in fighting in Iraq's western Anbar province, a hotbed of the Shiite insurgency, the U.S. command announced Thursday.

The two Marines, assigned to Regimental Combat Team 7, were killed from "enemy action" on Wednesday, the command said in a statement.

It provided no further details and said their names were being withheld pending notification of their families. Their deaths brought to 23 the number of U.S. servicemembers killed in Iraq this week.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 16.

#4. To: Brian S (#0)

23 U.S. servicemembers killed in Iraq this week...

How many of the 23 were killed by small arms fire? And what does this change in enemy tactics signify?

aristeides  posted on  2006-10-05   17:32:36 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I agree with Burkeman1, this demonstrates greater strength on the insurgency. It also shows that their tactics and training are improving, and they're growing in confidence. Traditionally, a prudent enemy commander wouldn't countenance giving battle with the US forces anywhere. Now it appears that they're more willing to take that risk, which doesn't bode well for us. They could also be getting more accurate with their firing. For at least two years it was always said that "spray and pray" was the firing technique of choice for the insurgency. Maybe that's changed a bit.

I spoke at length with a Major that was over there with me about how he would train if he was leading them, and what tactics he would use. It was really a common sense type of approach, with in the beginning use ambushes and occasional indirect fire until they're well trained enough to combine an ambush with indirect fire and possibly IEDs. The insurgency has pretty much followed a similar path.

One thing that weakens this argument a little bit is that the Marines were issued the SAPI plates for their body armor (after the scandal about the quality of the armor) but they decided that mobility was more important than protection, as the plates make the armor quite heavy. If one is doing a foot patrol as opposed to a mounted patrol, the body armor wears you out. Since the Marines possibly aren't wearing the extra protective plates, they would have more small arms casualties that the plates would have stopped otherwise. As an aside, I worked last year with a different Major who was involved with the procurement of the body armor, and the PM that was handling it one day looked at him and said "There are worse things than dying, you know." It was a statement in response to all the horrificly maimed soldiers who would have died except for the armor keeping their vital portions so well protected that multiple limbs were destroyed during an attack.

historian1944  posted on  2006-10-05   18:34:38 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

As we get absolutley no details of the fighting in our controlled censored press I have read alternative media that suggests nearly every "smalls arms hostile fire" death (before this "Baghdad offensive" in the last few days) has been from sniper fire and that these deaths are increasing.

Sniper war is perhaps the worst sort of warfare a second generation military can endure. It is morale draining and maddening. Death at any second- often without the shot even being heard in congested city streets with traffic noise. Just intant death. Of course I imagine the reaction to such deaths by the troops that just suffered a sniper casualty isn't too healthy for the civilians who just happen to be in the area.

Burkeman1  posted on  2006-10-05   19:47:02 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Of course I imagine the reaction to such deaths by the troops that just suffered a sniper casualty isn't too healthy for the civilians who just happen to be in the area.

The upside for the insurgency is that our lashing out indiscriminately just makes more people sympatheic to their cause and gives them more supporters.

There's been lots of talk of the whiz-bang gadgets. One of my favorites is this microphone that's supposed to be able to detect where a sniper's bullet came from. No one has explained to me yet how it's supposed to be able to determine what was echoes in an urban environment or how it can tell if it was friendly fire, etc. Yet the army is spending millions on figuring out how to determine where a bullet came from. As always, hardware first, then training then tactics, instead of how COL Boyd stated it, "People, ideas, hardware-in that order."

http://Military.com is reporting that there is a joint USMC/US Army manual on counterinsurgency due out next month. The little info the AP report on it had seemed to indicate that there was some learning going on, but it didn't go far enough.

historian1944  posted on  2006-10-06   8:44:36 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

#17. To: historian1944 (#16)

Of course I imagine the reaction to such deaths by the troops that just suffered a sniper casualty isn't too healthy for the civilians who just happen to be in the area.

Burky is not only a war hater, Israel hater, but MOST directly he is a very subtle AMERICA hater. Always on the edge but not quite daring to expose himself.

Read his posts carefully and you will find a constant pattern of America hatred.

Cynicom  posted on  2006-10-06 08:51:14 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

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