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9/11
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Title: The "Deep Mystery" of Melted Steel
Source: http://www.wpi.edu
URL Source: http://www.wpi.edu/News/Transformations/2002Spring/steel.html
Published: Oct 9, 2002
Author: /////
Post Date: 2006-10-09 17:50:22 by Kamala
Ping List: *9-11*     Subscribe to *9-11*
Keywords: 911
Views: 452
Comments: 44

The "Deep Mystery" of Melted Steel

There is no indication that any of the fires in the World Trade Center buildings were hot enough to melt the steel framework. Jonathan Barnett, professor of fire protection engineering, has repeatedly reminded the public that steel--which has a melting point of 2,800 degrees Fahrenheit--may weaken and bend, but does not melt during an ordinary office fire. Yet metallurgical studies on WTC steel brought back to WPI reveal that a novel phenomenon--called a eutectic reaction--occurred at the surface, causing intergranular melting capable of turning a solid steel girder into Swiss cheese.

Materials science professors Ronald R. Biederman and Richard D. Sisson Jr. confirmed the presence of eutectic formations by examining steel samples under optical and scanning electron microscopes. A preliminary report was published in JOM, the journal of the Minerals, Metals & Materials Society. A more detailed analysis comprises Appendix C of the FEMA report. The New York Times called these findings "perhaps the deepest mystery uncovered in the investigation." The significance of the work on a sample from Building 7 and a structural column from one of the twin towers becomes apparent only when one sees these heavy chunks of damaged metal.

A one-inch column has been reduced to half-inch thickness. Its edges--which are curled like a paper scroll--have been thinned to almost razor sharpness. Gaping holes--some larger than a silver dollar--let light shine through a formerly solid steel flange. This Swiss cheese appearance shocked all of the fire-wise professors, who expected to see distortion and bending--but not holes.

A eutectic compound is a mixture of two or more substances that melts at the lowest temperature of any mixture of its components. Blacksmiths took advantage of this property by welding over fires of sulfur-rich charcoal, which lowers the melting point of iron. In the World Trade Center fire, the presence of oxygen, sulfur and heat caused iron oxide and iron sulfide to form at the surface of structural steel members. This liquid slag corroded through intergranular channels into the body of the metal, causing severe erosion and a loss of structural integrity.

"The important questions," says Biederman, "are how much sulfur do you need, and where did it come from? The answer could be as simple--and this is scary- as acid rain."

Have environmental pollutants increased the potential for eutectic reactions? "We may have just the inherent conditions in the atmosphere so that a lot of water on a burning building will form sulfuric acid, hydrogen sulfide or hydroxides, and start the eutectic process as the steel heats up," Biederman says. He notes that the sulfur could also have come from contents of the burning buildings, such as rubber or plastics. Another possible culprit is ocean salts, such as sodium sulfate, which is known to catalyze sulfidation reactions on turbine blades of jet engines. "All of these things have to be explored," he says.

From a building-safety point of view, the critical question is: Did the eutectic mixture form before the buildings collapsed, or later, as the remains smoldered on the ground. "We have no idea," admits Sisson. "To answer that, we would need to recreate those fires in the FPE labs, and burn fresh steel of known composition for the right time period, with the right environment." He hopes to have the opportunity to collaborate on thermodynamically controlled studies, and to observe the effects of adding sulfur, copper and other elements. The most important lesson, Sisson and Biederman stress, is that fail-safe sprinkler systems are essential to prevent steel from reaching even 1,000 degrees Fahrenheit, because phase changes at the 1,300-degree mark compromise a structure's load-bearing capacity.

The FEMA report calls for further metallurgic investigations, and Barnett, Biederman and Sisson hope that WPI will obtain NIST funding and access to more samples. They are continuing their microscopic studies on the samples prepared by graduate student Jeremy Bernier and Marco Fontecchio, the 2001–02 Helen E. Stoddard Materials Science and Engineering Fellow.

(Next year's Stoddard Fellow, Erin Sullivan, will take up this work as part of her graduate studies.) Publication of their results may clear up some mysteries that have confounded the scientific community.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 39.

#1. To: Kamala (#0)

I used to try to explain on LP that the melted steel is a smoking gun. that resulted from demolition efforts, not jet fuel or furniture fires. and the fact that it was present 5 weeks after the event also confirms there was some chemical interacting with the steel. Fire could not possibly cause that situation. I used simple knowledge of basic physical properties of steel to determine this.

but as BAC so expertly told me, it means nothing unless it is on tv. we cannot think for ourselves, we must defer to the tv.

Red Jones  posted on  2006-10-09   17:55:05 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Red Jones, Kamala, InsideJob, robin, Horse, (#1)

Jet fuel or office fires do not cause an eutectic reaction--occurring at the surface, causing intergranular melting with traces of sulphur. The steel was evaporated from the extreme tempertures of the thermate reaction.

That's not true.

When I was training for my FAA airframe and powerplant license I was told for example to never use a carbon pencil or the like to mark a turbine fan blade because the resulting jet flame would turn that pencil mark into torch line. Same thing would happen with soot or other contaminents on the fan blades.

So your assumption fails.

Destro  posted on  2006-10-10   12:04:20 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Destro (#10)

I've read some of your nonsense at LF about office fires causing highrise structural steel to weaken and cause a complete collapse.

You have no clue or basis or proof for that claim.

This isn't FR or LP.

You will get your brains beat in here on 911 if you continue to spout the government fairytale.

Kamala  posted on  2006-10-10   13:14:41 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Kamala, christine, Red Jones (#14) (Edited)

I've read some of your nonsense at LF about office fires causing highrise structural steel to weaken and cause a complete collapse.

You have no clue or basis or proof for that claim.

Then why bother fireproofing steel beams then?

Genius! Construction firms can save millions in avoiding steel beam fireproofing!

So my creds? Work in the steel beam making business and I was trained for airframe and powerplant license which requires a knowledge of jets, metal alloys and what heat and cold does to them.

I mean, dont get me wrong - I have advocated the killing of NATO troops in the Balkans by Serbs who seek their freedom from American domination so I could care less if Americans are killing each other in mass qiantities - in fact it would be a dream come true - but alas - the WTC is not such an example.

I can still hope.

Destro  posted on  2006-10-10   15:18:34 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Destro (#16)

answer me this.

why is it that iron fireplace grates do not turn liquid under a wood fire?

You've seen iron fireplace grates get a little bit red in a very very hot wood fire. That is all they will do. they will turn a bit red, but they will not melt and they will not fail. how is it that at the WTC some of the steel actually melted to liquid?

you could make a bonfire of 20 big logs from the forest, a huge pile of firewood and douse it with gasoline, then light the whole thing, get it going real good. then put a steel beam on it and you will not see any of the steel turn to liquid. It takes an order of magnitude higher than what mere wood will produce in a fire to produce liquid. Anyone who knows materials knows this.

Red Jones  posted on  2006-10-10   15:48:36 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Red Jones (#21) (Edited)

answer me this.

Dude - no skin off my nose. You want to accuse your fellow Americans of being able to carry out planted demolitions in the heart of a city and all that it entails - go for it.

I saw American jets target children in Serbia to get that nation to yield so its no small stretch to accept the fact that Americans are satanic baby killers who would do this to their own people - so if that's the line you want to push - go for it.

Any nation that can do that to their own people deserves death - her seed scattered - her soil salted.

Destro  posted on  2006-10-10   16:07:15 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Destro (#22)

a small clique of evil criminals are responsible for sept 11 events, not the americans as a people.

Red Jones  posted on  2006-10-10   16:48:50 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Red Jones, Jethro Tull, Kamala, christine, burkeman1, bluedogtxn (#24)

a small clique of evil criminals are responsible for sept 11 events, not the americans as a people.

If that is your view then the American people somehow produce such monsters and enable them.

Therefore the logical conclusion is that such a people can not be allowed to continue.

If what you say is true the only conclusion is that her seed be scattered and her earth salted to prevent the American people carrying out the whims of this evil clique. If this was the case why are you not all arming and killing American police and military uniformed officials? How can you allow such monsters to rule over you and to do such damage to our country and the world?

That is the logical conclusion the theory that the WTC had been demolitioned by covert clique of Americans leads to.

Trust me after what I saw America do to Serbia I would welcome this decimation but I am not convinced this conspiracy theory is so (nor will I try and change your mind beyond voicing my doubts/thoughts).

Destro  posted on  2006-10-11   13:18:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Destro (#34)

I'll explain my point of view since you asked.

I don't advocate america's destruction - period. these are my people. I would like to stay here even if such destruction does come.

I put my faith in the bible. It teaches me two relevant lessons to this discussion.

first, nations of the world are not ruled by the people who inhabit those nations. The democracy ideology is a fraud. man thinks that he rules, but this is false. the democracy is always dysfunctional. The way nations are ruled as described in the bible is that god appoints a ruling clique. and then after that the people fall in line like sheep. This is how it works in America, this is how it always works everywhere and always has been that way. God appoints leaders not for the benefit of the inhabitants of the nation necessarilly, but for the creator's purposes. If his purpose is to build a country up and bless it, then he will provide such leaders. If his purpose is to destroy a nation, then he will provide leaders to facilitate that purpose.

Second, I think that our country is babylon of the end-times period as described in the bible. therefore, it will be destroyed and destroyed completely and suddenly as no other nation in world history has been destroyed. the nations of the world will conspire secretly to do this and when the attack occurs it will come so suddenly and be so complete that EVERYONE will be shocked. then upon the conclusion of this destruction jesus will return, proceed with judgement and build his kingdom here on earth. I believe our country does play a very special role in history and this is god's plan.

so I do oppose the clique that rules over us and I would like to stop them. But I am not foolish enough or proud enough to think that I can. And I do not advocate taking violent action to do so.

I got these ideas from the bible, prophecy in Daniel & Revelation. But you know what? George Washington gave a prophecy in December, 1777. and his prophecy matches this as well. the prophecy was given to him by an angel.

I wonder if you are sincere or if you are instigating.

Red Jones  posted on  2006-10-11   19:00:09 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: Red Jones (#35)

But you know what? George Washington gave a prophecy in December, 1777. and his prophecy matches this as well. the prophecy was given to him by an angel.

That was proven to be an urban legend.

http://www.snopes.com/ language/document/vision.htm

Sorry.

Destro  posted on  2006-10-11   19:07:35 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: Destro (#36)

Destro - many historical sources reported that he gave this prophecy prior to the year 1850. so, it is a documented fact that he did give a speech at valley forge with his prophecy in it. Newspapers of the day said so. many witnesses said so. many witnesses spoke to george washington about it later. Anthony sherman has the most detailed description of it, but there were other accounts as well recorded in history and they do not conflict with Sherman's. These accounts occurred over a period of 80 years beginning with newspaper accounts in 1777 and ending with Sherman's account in 1849. I did skim through your link - I thought it was real weak.

Red Jones  posted on  2006-10-11   19:28:49 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Red Jones (#38)

Nope. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Washington was a deist/rationalist and not prone to what deists would term superstitious nonsense like prophesies.

Destro  posted on  2006-10-11   19:44:27 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 39.

#40. To: Destro (#39)

you don't know george washington.

Red Jones  posted on  2006-10-11 19:47:55 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 39.

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