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Title: BUSH: No Guns, No School Shootings
Source:
www.tompaine.com
URL Source: http://www.tompaine.com/articles/20 ... o_guns_no_school_shootings.php
Published: Oct 12, 2006
Author: Zach Ragbourn
Post Date: 2006-10-12 12:20:38 by Mind_Virus
Keywords: None
Views: 251
Comments: 19
No Guns, No School Shootings Zach Ragbourn October 12, 2006 Zach Ragbourn is the assistant director of communications for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. On October 10 , President George W. Bush convened a nationwide summit to address the root problems of school shootings. Following the horrible events in a one-room Amish schoolhouse, in a rural Colorado school, and too many others to contemplate, the nation was going to finally figure out how to stop the disturbed and the violent from shooting and killing our students, teachers and children. But how much discussion is really needed? Apparently, quite a lot. Because in the hours and hours of debate and debriefing, the panelists and the government never came to an obvious answer. Societal violence affects us everywhere we go. Even if we believe it’s not something we can completely shield our children from, we will always keep trying. And until the human race can face and eliminate the demons that turn us against one another, we’re going to have to make it harder for people to victimize our children and our communities. That has to start with making sure that the criminals and the dangerously deranged don’t have unfettered access to firearms. The president’s summit on school violence didn’t once address the fact that school shootings are committed with firearms, and that the shooters too often shouldn’t have been able to obtain firearms at all. There’s a lot we can and should do to make our schools safer. But first, America needs to be willing to ask some tough questions, and come to some obvious answers. Clearly, the president’s summit can’t be our guiding star. Leaders at the highest levels of government seem unwilling to take meaningful action to stop gun violence. Sometimes, as we saw just this week, our leaders don’t even want talk about guns. The unwillingness to have the conversation arises from many factors. Politics plays heavily, as do misconceptions and ideology. Some people believe they already have all the answers, and think the debate ended a decade ago. Nothing completely accounts for the kind of intentional ignorance Washington has shown on this issue, though. Two factors are very important in this lack of a national debate: the gun lobby and political inertia. The gun industry has some powerful friends, and can spend a lot of money during the campaign cycle. They take scalps publicly, and tout their victories in every publication their PR firms can call. A small army of single-issue voters stands ready to cast ballots and sign checks at the behest of political organizations like the NRA. Industry lobbyists pretend that it’s an all-or-nothing issue, where you either want more guns, or no guns at all. Right-wing politicians court the gun lobby openly, while so-called “centrists” ignore the issue, hoping to avoid being tarred as a gun-banning liberal. In short, it’s the politics of fear and money, just like every other issue the country faces. All issues move in cycles. It’s entirely likely that Washington will be ready for a true national dialogue in the near future. But with 30,000 Americans losing their lives to gun violence every year, it’s unconscionable to simply wait for politics to catch up with reality. The debate has moved out of the halls of Congress, not because of any grand grassroots strategy, but because things that are this important will boil over when ignored. In September, thousands of people marched in Harrisburg, Penn., demanding real gun laws for their state. In Illinois, a ballot initiative supporting a statewide ban on military-style assault weapons is all but certain to pass in the fall. Voters in Maryland threw their support behind candidates who spoke frankly and forcefully about the need for meaningful gun laws. Even if neither the president, Attorney General Alberto Gonzales nor the Congress wants to have the conversation, it’s clear that the rest of America does. The discussion we’re having outside of the White House and the Capitol may surprise the national politicians who’ve been afraid to touch the issue for years. It’s not a question of forcing an ideology on the country, or of taking a radical new approach. And no, despite what you may have heard, it’s not about banning or confiscating anything. What needs to happen is simple. We must stop turning back the clock. Instead of chipping away at funding for law enforcement, or hiding the national crime-gun trace database, Congress should let the laws do their work. We already know that Brady background checks work—more than a million and a half criminals, domestic abusers, stalkers and mentally disturbed individuals have been denied guns since the Brady Bill passed. Now let’s make those background checks meaningful by closing the loopholes in the law, so that background checks are performed every time a gun is sold. And finally, the black market for guns has to be shut down. Anti-trafficking laws and strict enforcement of dealer regulations will put a stranglehold on the flow of illegal guns. It’s not radical, and it’s not new. But the need for these solutions is clearer than ever. Whether the debate happens at neighborhood watch meetings or in the Senate Judiciary Committee, America needs the conversation.
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#1. To: Mind_Virus, Brian S, all (#0)
Well, it was pretty obvious this was coming. I think that was the point of some of these school shootings, particularly the Amish one. By the way, has anyone heard any more background on this guy? From what I can tell, other than funeral coverage, this story has been buried. Am I right in that perception?
"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."
No guns? Bullshit. I'm of the mind that the latest round of school shootings were a little more than just well timed events to get the Gay Rapist off the front page. It seems we have one of these tragedies about the time something else bigger is looming. Kind of like how the Foley Scandal was starting to develop some interesting liner notes, and the next thing you know, there's a rash of school shootings by MIDDLE AGED MEN who invade a school, and kill people. The latest one where the kid in Missouri DIDN'T kill anyone had all the hallmarks of some kind of mind control experiment gone wrong. The kid saying "Please Don't Make Me Do This." Over and over. Screams out something very wrong, and not just with the kid. This whole Anti-Gun culture that's coming about, means that the law abiding citizens will be disarmed, and the criminal element will have guns. When that day comes, the cops will be bathing in the blood of their fellow officers, and you can better believe that the law abiding citizens will scream out we need less freedom because of all the criminals. Self-defense is a human right. Not just a human right, but a GOD GIVEN RIGHT. Self-defense and Self-Preservation are things that you cannot legislate, nor can you appoint protectors that cannot be there every minute of the day to protect the innocent. People need to buy guns, and buy a LOT of guns if they want to stay safe. Not just from the criminals mind you, but from the people who will one day take your freedoms away for good.
#2. To: Mind_Virus (#0)
 | What's that Mr. Nipples? You want me to ask the nice lady about her rack?. |
#3. To: Mind_Virus (#0)
I wonder how Thomas Paine would feel about big government loving gun grabbers associating his name with their despicable agenda?
How many observe Christ's birthday! How few, his precepts! O! 'tis easier to keep Holidays than Commandments. Benjamin Franklin
#4. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#2)
This is why I know that God's followers are a bunch of fucking retards. - TommyTheMadArtist http://freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi? ArtNum=36968&Disp=28#C28 Oh the irony.
Self-defense is a human right. Not just a human right, but a GOD GIVEN RIGHT.
How many observe Christ's birthday! How few, his precepts! O! 'tis easier to keep Holidays than Commandments. Benjamin Franklin
#5. To: Fibr Dog (#4)
I should quantify that with saying The GOD I'm talking about isn't the one you jackasses find in your bible, or whatever mindclutter religion you believe in. The irony? NO. I've always said there is a God. Just not yours.
| What's that Mr. Nipples? You want me to ask the nice lady about her rack?. |
#6. To: Mind_Virus (#0)
It’s not radical, and it’s not new. But the need for these solutions is clearer than ever. Whether the debate happens at neighborhood watch meetings or in the Senate Judiciary Committee, America needs the conversation. Did you know that every time a background check is performed to make sure you "qualify" for the RTKBA, a record is sent to the ATF? Which means if you obtain a gun in the "legal" way, the gummint knows you have it. And if you are ever accused of a crime, any crime, the judge can, as a condition of your bond, take your guns into safe keeping, before you are ever convicted of anything. Did you know that? With totalitarianism rising exponentially, it would seem to be a good time to let the government know who has guns and give them the tools to take them away. After all, an unarmed people will be safe. Right?
Now let’s make those background checks meaningful by closing the loopholes in the law, so that background checks are performed every time a gun is sold. And finally, the black market for guns has to be shut down. Anti-trafficking laws and strict enforcement of dealer regulations will put a stranglehold on the flow of illegal guns.
the law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal bread.
#7. To: mehitable (#1)
There seems to be 2 factions forming related to the gun issue. City-folk that maintain the anti-gun faction and the country folk that are pro-gunners. It's not difficult to understand why these two groupings feel like they do. Inner- city families have less use for the weapons and usually see both parents working. This leaves the weapons available to their children, and can become dangerous if the children aren't properly informed and disciplined with respect to weapons. This also puts others that might be pro-gun in the under represented class within metro areas. People in the country use their rifles on a regular basis, killing varmits, coyotees, and an occasional peeping tom (hahahaha). I live in the country and the gun issue is one of the reasons I decided to move out of the city. In the city, the unlawful use of weapons is primarily the activity of criminals that won't be deterred regardless of the laws. This makes it difficult for intelligent humans to forfeit their weapons when they know full well the gang bangers and others of their ilk are armed and dangerous to their families. Everyone must determine for themselves what's worse, getting killed by some drug crazed gang banger or paying the misdemeanor fine for possessing a weapon that some gang of elected fags and paedophiles has determined you shouldn't. More people are killed by cars every year ... wanna ban em ?
"If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."
Samuel Adams
#8. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#5)
No offense. I just found it to be ironic. It's interesting though that you consider my religion to be mind-clutter, while yours is not. Another irony which is lost on you I am sure because your remark sounds no different than the remarks of those you condemn. Oh well. To each their own. I'm not Richard1951 or Destro or any of the others around here who will condemn you because your religious beliefs aren't the same as theirs. I have enough trouble living up to the precepts of mine own religion. I am in no position to condem anyone else, yourself included. In other words, I am fully aware of the huge log in mine own eye.
whatever mindclutter religion you believe in.
How many observe Christ's birthday! How few, his precepts! O! 'tis easier to keep Holidays than Commandments. Benjamin Franklin
#9. To: noone222 (#7)
I understand the mindset of people in the city, as I live in the city, but I think the answer is: MORE GUNS. If everyone were armed and trained, crime would drop.
"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."
#10. To: mehitable (#9)
Exactly! The fact that schools are federally mandated gun-free zones is the reason why they are the perfect target for armed, crazed criminals.
I think the answer is: MORE GUNS.
#11. To: ratcat (#10)
Excellent point. When was the last time you saw some crazed desperado charging a police station or rifle range? Maybe there should be an armed guard in each school with orders to shoot to kill.
Exactly! The fact that schools are federally mandated gun-free zones is the reason why they are the perfect target for armed, crazed criminals.
"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."
#12. To: mehitable (#11)
N.M. Schools Locked Down Thursday October 12, 2006 7:16 PM ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. (AP) - Three Albuquerque schools were locked down and SWAT teams searched a middle school campus Thursday after a student reported that a man dressed in all black had approached her brandishing a knife, police said. Two of the schools, both elementary schools within a mile of James Monroe Middle School, reopened after about 2 hours. Police were reviewing videotape from outside the middle school, which remained under lockdown for another hour before the order was lifted, said Officer Trish Hoffman of the Albuquerque Police Department. ``We've conducted a number of searches inside the school and secondary searches outside the school, and we haven't located anybody,'' Hoffman said. She said the girl reported that the man was outside the school near a portable classroom or a restroom. ``We don't know if he touched her,'' Hoffman said. Albuquerque Public Schools spokesman Rigo Chavez said the nearby schools were locked down as a precaution. He did not immediately know how many people were involved in the lockdowns. An Albuquerque police SWAT team - along with officers from the school district, Bernalillo County Sheriff's Department and Rio Rancho Department of Public Safety - responded to the middle school, Hoffman said.
MKUltra #4
“Yes, but is this good for Jews?"
#13. To: Eoghan (#12)
IN NYC, police officers were assigned to some schools beginning in the mid 70s. Teachers loved it, and IIRC, there hasn't been a school shooting (in some of the worst slums in the country) since. So....guns in schools prevent crime. Simple stuff.
#14. To: Jethro Tull, Eoghan (#13)
Absolutely!!!! The solution IS more guns.
"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."
#15. To: Fibr Dog (#8)
People like that usually don't know enough about what they are talking about to be credible anyhow. Not only do they know nothing about what they are complaining about, but the knowledge they hold about their own particular system is spotty at best.
I'm not Richard1951 or Destro or any of the others around here who will condemn you because your religious beliefs aren't the same as theirs.
Press 1 to proceed in English. Press 2 for Deportation.
#16. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#2)
BINGO. It reeks of a CIA Zombie doesn't it? And don't forget the AMMO...and lots of it.
It seems we have one of these tragedies about the time something else bigger is looming. Kind of like how the Foley Scandal was starting to develop some interesting liner notes, and the next thing you know, there's a rash of school shootings by MIDDLE AGED MEN who invade a school, and kill people. The latest one where the kid in Missouri DIDN'T kill anyone had all the hallmarks of some kind of mind control experiment gone wrong. The kid saying "Please Don't Make Me Do This." Over and over. Screams out something very wrong, and not just with the kid.
***LEAP***
"I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. Government will lead the American people, and the West in general, into an unbearable hell and choking life.
-- Osama bin Laden
"A prohibition law strikes at the very principles upon which our govt was founded."
- Lincoln
All our liberties are due to men who, when their conscience has compelled them, have broken the laws of the land.
--William K Clifford
#17. To: bluedogtxn (#6)
Did you know that? I didn't know that and now I am really royally pissed off! / Freeking fascist sobs. Assumed guilty until proven innocent.
Which means if you obtain a gun in the "legal" way, the gummint knows you have it. And if you are ever accused of a crime, any crime, the judge can, as a condition of your bond, take your guns into safe keeping, before you are ever convicted of anything.
***LEAP***
"I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. Government will lead the American people, and the West in general, into an unbearable hell and choking life.
-- Osama bin Laden
"A prohibition law strikes at the very principles upon which our govt was founded."
- Lincoln
All our liberties are due to men who, when their conscience has compelled them, have broken the laws of the land.
--William K Clifford
#18. To: mehitable, ratcat, IndieTx, Fibr Dog, TommyTheMadArtist, noone222, all (#9)
An interview with John R. Lott, Jr. author of More Guns, Less Crime: Understanding Crime and Gun Control Laws Question: What does the title mean: More Guns, Less Crime? John R. Lott, Jr.: States with the largest increases in gun ownership also have the largest drops in violent crimes. Thirty-one states now have such laws— called "shall-issue" laws. These laws allow adults the right to carry concealed handguns if they do not have a criminal record or a history of significant mental illness. Question: It just seems to defy common sense that crimes likely to involve guns would be reduced by allowing more people to carry guns. How do you explain the results? John R. Lott, Jr. is a resident scholar at American Enterprise Institute. He was previously the John M. Olin Visiting Law and Economics Fellow at the University of Chicago Law School. Lott: Criminals are deterred by higher penalties. Just as higher arrest and conviction rates deter crime, so does the risk that someone committing a crime will confront someone able to defend him or herself. There is a strong negative relationship between the number of law-abiding citizens with permits and the crime rate—as more people obtain permits there is a greater decline in violent crime rates. For each additional year that a concealed handgun law is in effect the murder rate declines by 3 percent, rape by 2 percent, and robberies by over 2 percent. Concealed handgun laws reduce violent crime for two reasons. First, they reduce the number of attempted crimes because criminals are uncertain which potential victims can defend themselves. Second, victims who have guns are in a much better position to defend themselves. Question: What is the basis for these numbers? Lott: The analysis is based on data for all 3,054 counties in the United States during 18 years from 1977 to 1994. Question: Your argument about criminals and deterrence doesn't tell the whole story. Don't statistics show that most people are killed by someone they know? Lott: You are referring to the often-cited statistic that 58 percent of murder victims are killed by either relatives or acquaintances. However, what most people don't understand is that this "acquaintance murder" number also includes gang members killing other gang members, drug buyers killing drug pushers, cabdrivers killed by customers they picked up for the first time, prostitutes and their clients, and so on. "Acquaintance" covers a wide range of relationships. The vast majority of murders are not committed by previously law- abiding citizens. Ninety percent of adult murderers have had criminal records as adults. Question: But how about children? In March of this year [1998] four children and a teacher were killed by two school boys in Jonesboro, Arkansas. Won't tragedies like this increase if more people are allowed to carry guns? Shouldn't this be taken into consideration before making gun ownership laws more lenient? Lott: The horrific shooting in Arkansas occurred in one of the few places where having guns was already illegal. These laws risk creating situations in which the good guys cannot defend themselves from the bad ones. I have studied multiple victim public shootings in the United States from 1977 to 1995. These were incidents in which at least two or more people were killed and or injured in a public place; in order to focus on the type of shooting seen in Arkansas, shootings that were the byproduct of another crime, such as robbery, were excluded. The effect of "shall-issue" laws on these crimes has been dramatic. When states passed these laws, the number of multiple-victim shootings declined by 84 percent. Deaths from these shootings plummeted on average by 90 percent, and injuries by 82 percent. For other types of crimes, I find that both children as well as adults are protected when law-abiding adults are allowed to carry concealed handguns. Finally, after extensively studying the number of accidental shootings, there is no evidence that increasing the number of concealed handguns increases accidental shootings. We know that the type of person who obtains a permit is extremely law-abiding and possibly they are extremely careful in how they take care of their guns. The total number of accidental gun deaths each year is about 1,300 and each year such accidents take the lives of 200 children 14 years of age and under. However, these regrettable numbers of lives lost need to be put into some perspective with the other risks children face. Despite over 200 million guns owned by between 76 to 85 million people, the children killed is much smaller than the number lost through bicycle accidents, drowning, and fires. Children are 14.5 times more likely to die from car accidents than from accidents involving guns. Question: Wouldn't allowing concealed weapons increase the incidents of citizens attacking each other in tense situations? For instance, sometimes in traffic jams or accidents people become very hostile—screaming and shoving at one another. If armed, might people shoot each other in the heat of the moment? Lott: During state legislative hearings on concealed-handgun laws, possibly the most commonly raised concern involved fears that armed citizens would attack each other in the heat of the moment following car accidents. The evidence shows that such fears are unfounded. Despite millions of people licensed to carry concealed handguns and many states having these laws for decades, there has only been one case where a person with a permit used a gun after a traffic accident and even in that one case it was in self-defense. Question: Violence is often directed at women. Won't more guns put more women at risk? Lott: Murder rates decline when either more women or more men carry concealed handguns, but a gun represents a much larger change in a woman's ability to defend herself than it does for a man. An additional woman carrying a concealed handgun reduces the murder rate for women by about 3 to 4 times more than an additional man carrying a concealed handgun reduces the murder rate for men. Question: Aren't you playing into people's fears and prejudices though? Don't politicians pass these shall-issue laws to mollify middle-class white suburbanites anxious about the encroachment of urban minority crime? Lott: I won't speculate about motives, but the results tell a different story. High crime urban areas and neighborhoods with large minority populations have the greatest reductions in violent crime when citizens are legally allowed to carry concealed handguns. Question: What about other countries? It's often argued that Britain, for instance, has a lower violent crime rate than the USA because guns are much harder to obtain and own. Lott: The data analyzed in this book is from the USA. Many countries, such as Switzerland, New Zealand, Finland, and Israel have high gun-ownership rates and low crime rates, while other countries have low gun ownership rates and either low or high crime rates. It is difficult to obtain comparable data on crime rates both over time and across countries, and to control for all the other differences across the legal systems and cultures across countries. Even the cross country polling data on gun ownership is difficult to assess, because ownership is underreported in countries where gun ownership is illegal and the same polls are never used across countries. Question: This is certainly controversial and there are certain to be counter- arguments from those who disagree with you. How will you respond to them? Lott: Some people do use guns in horrible ways, but other people use guns to prevent horrible things from happening to them. The ultimate question that concerns us all is: Will allowing law-abiding citizens to own guns save lives? While there are many anecdotal stories illustrating both good and bad uses of guns, this question can only be answered by looking at data to find out what the net effect is. All of chapter seven of the book is devoted to answering objections that people have raised to my analysis. There are of course strong feelings on both sides about the issue of gun ownership and gun control laws. The best we can do is to try to discover and understand the facts. If you agree, or especially if you disagree with my conclusions I hope you'll read the book carefully and develop an informed opinion.
#19. To: IndieTX (#17)
If you conduct your personal affairs as if the government is seeking each and every opportunity it can to disarm you and then steal all your money; and that the courts will do everything in their power to help them, you won't go far wrong. You are much more secure owning a gun off the black market.
I didn't know that and now I am really royally pissed off! / Freeking fascist sobs. Assumed guilty until proven innocent.
the law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal bread.
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