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Religion
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Title: Pluck of the Amish
Source: Catholic Online
URL Source: http://www.catholic.org/views/views_news.php?id=21588&pid=3
Published: Oct 11, 2006
Author: Greg Erlandson, OSV
Post Date: 2006-10-15 15:02:54 by Fibr Dog
Keywords: None
Views: 148
Comments: 8

School-shooting incidents seem to come in threes for some reason, and a tragic week in late September/early October saw that deadly triumvirate rear its ugly head once again at schools in Colorado, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania.

Amid the ugliness of bloodshed and fear, as always, the bright lines of faithful witness seem to stand out all the more brilliantly. At Columbine in 1999, there were reports of shared prayer under fire and a high school girl's refusal to renounce her faith at gunpoint.

More recently, after a gunman killed several girls and himself in a one-room Amish schoolhouse in Bart Township, Pa., it was the simple yet resilient faith of the Amish community in the face of unspeakable tragedy.

A message of hope and forgiveness emanated throughout the community. The grandfather of one victim was quoted as telling young relatives that "we must not think evil of this man." An Amish woodworker said the incident was God's plan, and that the deceased children are "better off than their survivors" because "we believe in the hereafter." An area resident noted how the Amish would reach out to the suffering, even the killer's own family. That outreach was evident when some 75 Amish attended the man's funeral at a nearby Methodist church.

This is the kind of radical love and forgiveness to which Christ calls us in the gospels. It also reflects the supernatural perspective that tells us we were made not for this world, but for the next life. That said, even the most devout of Christians may struggle to respond in a Gospel way when violence strikes so close to home.

The Amish response to this tragedy challenges us to re-examine our own willingness to forgive others, especially those whom we find the hardest to forgive.

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#1. To: Fibr Dog (#0)

This is the kind of radical love and forgiveness to which Christ calls us in the gospels.

The Christ of the Amish is a very different Christ from that of your typical Rapture Nutter Evangelical. Watch "Reverend" Hagee some time all hoped up on his Dais altar in his Arena Dome "Church" surrounded by large screen TV's flanked by American flags with images of F-16's and Stealth fighters soaring in the sky. There couldn't be a more stark contrast that highlights the utter perversion of Christianity that mainstream Evangelical Protestanism represents.

Burkeman1  posted on  2006-10-15   15:27:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Burkeman1 (#1)

If Hagee's a mainstream Evangelical it's time to for a change to be sure.

Most Profound Man in Iraq — An unidentified farmer in a fairly remote area who, after being asked by Reconnaissance Marines if he had seen any foreign fighters in the area replied "Yes, you."

robin  posted on  2006-10-15   15:30:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Burkeman1 (#1)

The Christ of the Amish is a very different Christ from that of your typical Rapture Nutter Evangelical. Watch "Reverend" Hagee some time all hoped up on his Dais altar in his Arena Dome "Church" surrounded by large screen TV's flanked by American flags with images of F-16's and Stealth fighters soaring in the sky. There couldn't be a more stark contrast that highlights the utter perversion of Christianity that mainstream Evangelical Protestanism represents.

While it is true that most evangelicals would/could not relate to the above mindset, they are not the only ones who fall short. I am Catholic and know that I am supposed to forgive in the same way the Amish forgave in the above instance, but I don't know if I would have the grace to be that forgiving. They are truly blessed.

Everytime I read the garbage posted on LP I have an internal battle with myself. One half says that I should pray for them because anyone with that much hate must have a miserable life and cannot truly know Jesus. At the same time, the other half of me wishes bodily harm upon them and their families. This is far from the forgiveness I am supposed to have. Therefore, am I any different than they are?

Another issue is the matter of the upcoming mass imprisonments of American citizens that seems imminent. One half of me wants to take up arms and use my military training to start killing people if and when the time comes. I've even publicly stated this position. However, the other half tells me this is wrong and that as a third order (lay) Carmelite, the proper action for me would be to react as the Blessed Titus Brandsma and other Catholic men and women, both lay and religious, did during WWII. They did not take up arms. Many of these men and women preached the gospel of forgiveness even as the Nazi's were performing ghastly medical experiments on them up until the day they were murdered, knowing that the suffering in this life is nothing compared to the joy of their reward in Heaven.

I am afraid that I am no better than Hagee.

How many observe Christ's birthday! How few, his precepts! O! 'tis easier to keep Holidays than Commandments. Benjamin Franklin

Fibr Dog  posted on  2006-10-15   15:58:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: robin, Burkeman1 (#2)

If Hagee's a mainstream Evangelical it's time to for a change to be sure.

Hagee is most definitely a mainstream evangelical figure. He stands right along side Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell and Oral Roberts. In a nation of more than 300 million people and a religion that believes that everyone and anyone can interpret scripture as they see fit, anyone with a charismatic personality and a polished presentation can have a large following. This is especially true when they are able to manipulate/pervert scripture to meet the more base desires of their followers for revenge and violence.

How many observe Christ's birthday! How few, his precepts! O! 'tis easier to keep Holidays than Commandments. Benjamin Franklin

Fibr Dog  posted on  2006-10-15   16:10:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Fibr Dog (#4)

My dear aunt would disagree with you, that these beliefs are evangelical. But if that is what has become mainstream evangelical, then the destruction of the Bible belt's religion is complete.

Most Profound Man in Iraq — An unidentified farmer in a fairly remote area who, after being asked by Reconnaissance Marines if he had seen any foreign fighters in the area replied "Yes, you."

robin  posted on  2006-10-15   16:16:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Fibr Dog (#3)

There is probabally no difference theologically speaking but spiritually and temporally speaking there is. The hate of the El Pee'er toward their construct they call "Islam" is all the more grotesque because it is wholly cowardly, ideologically based, abstract, and utterly removed from them. They hate for no solid personal reason. They hate because they need to hate- not because of any real harm done to them. It is a loathsome ideological hate not born of practical or personal experience- not born out of a real physical or personal loss to them. It is a cheap hate that has no cost to them in real terms.

And what makes it all the more despicable and evil is that there are people in Iraq right now- insurgents fighting American troops whose have lost loved ones in this war at the hands of those troops who don't hate as blindly as they do.

The man whose wife or son has been killed, whose country has been invaded, whose life has been spent under the boot of a US backed dictator who later fell out of favor does not hate Americans with the blind sickening all encompsing ideological hate that reichwingers have for "Islam" that we see expressed on El Pee everyday. Their hate has a real reason behind it and is directed. The hate of the El Pee'er? Utterly gratituious and without cause.

Burkeman1  posted on  2006-10-15   20:07:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Fibr Dog (#3)

I think there is a huge difference in Hagee and you. Hagee does what he does to increase his own influence and power. What country that Hagee wants to invade has harmed us? Probably very few.

You consider taking up arms to actually defend yourself and your loved ones. That is a very biblical concept. Aren't you the protector and leader of your family? Don't you have the obligation to protect them? If you saw your wife being raped, wouldn't you stop the crime?

Consider the people building the camps as very large and powerful bullies/criminals. You're completely justified in resisting them. What would have happened if Solzhenitsyn and his comrades had resisted the communists instead of cowering behind the door? How many more people would be alive today? Wouldn't the world be a better place? Absolutely.

These thoughts you have that it would be wrong to resist are thoughts cooked up by the enemy to neutralize you. The people bent on doing you harm know that there are thousands of us who have extensive military training and weapons. They know they have to remove us from the equation in order to succeed. This is how they do it, aided by wolves in sheep's clothing. In other words, people like Hagee.

echo5sierra  posted on  2006-10-15   20:49:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Fibr Dog (#3) (Edited)

One half of me wants to take up arms and use my military training to start killing people if and when the time comes. I've even publicly stated this position. However, the other half tells me this is wrong and that as a third order (lay) Carmelite, the proper action for me would be to react as the Blessed Titus Brandsma and other Catholic men and women, both lay and religious, did during WWII. They did not take up arms

I proclaim my shortcomings as a Christian. If anyone were to harm my children [or start the roundups] I would tell them God forgives them right before turning their heads into canoes with an appropriate caliber. No enemy-induced guilt trip martyrdom without a fight for this patriot. No chains either. I determined that a long time ago.
Give me Charles Bronson over a martyr any day. They'll take me or harm my kids over my last round. Liberty or Death.

As for the hatred spewed on ElPee...don't even ask..



***LEAP***

"I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. Government will lead the American people, and the West in general, into an unbearable hell and choking life.
-- Osama bin Laden
"A prohibition law strikes at the very principles upon which our govt was founded."
- Lincoln
All our liberties are due to men who, when their conscience has compelled them, have broken the laws of the land.
--William K Clifford

IndieTX  posted on  2006-10-15   21:03:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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