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9/11
See other 9/11 Articles

Title: Confessions Of A 911 Hitman
Source: www.rense.com
URL Source: http://www.rense.com/general73/confess.htm
Published: Oct 15, 2006
Author: Douglas Herman
Post Date: 2006-10-15 23:45:22 by robin
Ping List: *9-11*     Subscribe to *9-11*
Keywords: None
Views: 2797
Comments: 310

Confessions Of A 911 Hitman
How & Why I Helped Blow Up The World Trade Center
By Douglas Herman
Exclusive to Rense.com
10-13-6

I'm retired now. But five years ago I helped blow up the WTC complex. I was paid a half million dollars, tax free, for my time and trouble. I don't know what the rest of my crew was paid--maybe a little more, maybe a little less. Not that I care much. In operations like this one, where dozens and dozens of top technicians operated like a team, nobody knew the entire operation or who was who, or what everybody got paid---the big picture, as people call it. Better that way. Better that the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.
Living on the beach here in Cartagena, Columbia I've had lots of time to reflect. Lots more time to wonder. What surprises me most, however, is how very few intelligent people in America question the obvious signature of the crime, even after five years.

How did we do it and why did we do it? The absolute audacity and cleverness still surprises me. The planners knew that success was the only option and so they spent years, not months, designing the perfect plan. What you call murder, I call the perfect crime. What you call an act of terror, I call the perfect diversion.
The intelligent people who run your country know that America depends on a continuous supply of oil. They also know that Americans use far more oil than they can produce here in America. They also know that if anyone in the Middle East were allowed to sell oil for euros--which Iraq attempted to do and Iran is threatening to do---and thus break the monopoly of US petrodollars, America might just go down the tubes. At least that is how it was explained to me, one of the reasons we were doing what we were doing, in the weeks and months during our furious preparations.
But if the US was attacked by terrorists, however, by rogue clients of ME states, then America could retaliate, occupy their countries, insert puppet leaders like the Shah of Iran, and continue siphoning oil forever. And hundreds of people would make billions, while thousands of multinational companies--not just Halliburton--would profit immensely.

And so America needed to be attacked.
But the attack needed to be spectacular. And the targets needed to be high image targets that represented America but was really stuff that could be rebuilt. Rebuilt at a profit. And so you saw the Pentagon targeted rather than the Congress building. Because Congress still needed someplace to meet and declare war against those nations that attacked America.
MY job was to wire explosives inside the various WTC buildings. We wired buildings 1, 2, 6, and 7. We hardwired some areas and attached explosives and electronic detonators to many other key structural joints. We did this weeks in advance. WTC-7 fell in a classic controlled demolition (See example) but the Twin Towers required a lot more ingenuity. The fellow who planned the actual sequence of detonations is a genius. He was rumored to have been paid seven or eight figures and is a fucking master. Almost like a composer of a symphony orchestra but better. Much better.

Entry into even the most secure areas of the WTC complex was easy. The badges and identifications were specially made. We had a guy at the top, an insider, who supplied the entry passes. We were the invisible people, those people who you see everyday but don't see. We were the janitors and maintenance men you take for granted but who have far more access in your own building than you'll ever have. Like I said, this whole operation was designed years in advance and took months to assemble the teams of top specialists. Then we worked weeks together to attack each key area of the plan. Like a builder using a blueprint.
Those people who say it couldn't be done, or only hijackers in airplanes could do it, really piss me off. Because we did it. For example, instead of building the Hoover Dam we took it down, piece by piece in a couple hours, and made each step look believable. Made it look like the dam just burst naturally.

The majority of ignorant people say, "fires brought the buildings down." We just smile and say, yes they did. Most people don't know that steel doesn't melt from fuel fires but melted steel was found weeks later in the substructure of the WTC. Nobody seems to want to know how that happened to perfectly good steel. Most people don't know thermite was used in World War II or that explosives and detonaters can be attached and then remotely detonated from blocks away in whatever sequence you choose. That was why when you watched the middle part of the towers explode--pancake down as the experts claimed---the upper parts of the twin towers were being simultaneously detonated as the lower parts were crumbling. If we hadn't done that you would have seen 30 to 40 story segment sitting on the rubble pile.
Like I said it was a work of genius.
Am I sorry that almost 3,000 people got killed? Sure. Are you sorry that you, personally, use so much foreign oil?

And are you sorry that all these faked resource wars have to be concocted so that you can get that oil and live comfortably? Didn't think so.

Investigators on those TV crime shows, the CSI people, always try to understand who benefits by the bloody crime. If you understand that many people benefitted by 9-11, by the WTC destruction, then you are more than halfway to solving the crime. Not just who dunnit, but how dunnit and why dunnit.
The benefits of the plan were manifold. Everyone involved profited. The political zealots at the Pentagon got there holy war, or wars, that would benefit Israel while weakening the entire ME. The corporate--connected people got billions in new contracts. The military people got new toys.

Meanwhile the more pragmatic planners assembled a team to start removing gold and silver from below building 4 as soon as the remote-controlled planes struck the towers. We had teams taking bullion from the vaults immediately before and after the towers fell. Miles of tunnels connected the complex. Teams had seven hours to remove as much bullion as they could. The falling towers, the smoke, the fires, the sirens, that was all a grand diversion going on in the streets above. Like I said the plan was designed to appear to be an Islamic terrorist attack yet functioned perfectly as an enormous, gigantic bank robbery. The biggest heist in history.
Was I underpaid? Probably. But I was just one cog in this smooth functioning yet risky machine. Some internet blogger speculated that only 50-51 men could pull off this perfect crime, but I think it had to be several hundred experts involved.
Who were we? Americans, Israelis, South Africans, Brits, Irish. All top specialists. The best of the best. Like that popular TV show, the Mission Impossible force, that was us. Quite a few former special forces, several top intelligence men, financial wizards, some foreign mercenaries, Israeli demo specialists, electronic specialists, security specialists. You name it.
How to keep everyone quiet, you ask? You heard the old saying, two can keep a secret if one of them is dead? Well a thousand can keep a secret if everyone is happy and everyone is very well paid. You also heard that old saying, honor among thieves? Well why would anyone want to rat on someone else? And even if one person got shitfaced drunk and bragged about bringing down the trade towers, who would believe him. After all, we all saw the hijacked jets crashed into the Trade Towers, right? And then we all saw that fuel fires weakened the steel and brought down those same towers, right?

No one will ever catch us. Who would investigate? Hugo Chavez? We commited the perfect crime and got away with it.
But like I said at the beginning, the crime was obviously a crime to anyone who even glanced at the pictures on the TV. It was so fucking obvious it still makes me laugh. What happened was a classic diversion. The towers fell; two or three ME countries were blamed. A suitable villain was fingered.
But you have hundreds of millions in stolen gold--did Osama steal it? You have those jackpot insurance claims on a pair of architecturel white elephants, leased only months before (giving us enough time to wire them). You have fake pilots that couldn't fly, doing maneuvers in Boeing jumbo jets that were electronically programmed not to allow pilots to fly that way. You have FBI and CIA head honchos looking the other way. I could go on and on. But isn't that what your real CSI people should be doing--but aren't? Isn't that what your real detectives should be doing--but aren't?

If a farmer finds his henhouse raided by a fox, he tracks the fox through the snow and discovers the burrow and sees the feathers and the blood. Well, you've seen the feathers and the blood all over the people who planned 9-11 but still you can't seem to put the pieces of this great crime together. Why is that?
Longtime Rense writer, Douglas Herman wrote the suspense novel, The Guns of Dallas, that features a confessed hitman revealing the perfect scenario for the murder of JFK. The above scenario is fiction but probably far closer to the truth than anything yet offered in the so-called fact based media.
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#220. To: Destro (#195)

the American people allow such leadership - empower it and do nothing against it

the uneducated in america have been brainwashed

the educated have now figured it out

it's a race to the finish line.

angle  posted on  2006-10-16   22:45:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#221. To: Jethro Tull (#198)

I'm a decent human being, much more willing to love than hate. Americans for the most part are like me, I suspect. Now should someone else ...

perhaps it would be cause to fly the flag again?

angle  posted on  2006-10-16   22:49:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#222. To: leveller (#216)

the 9/11 conspiracy theorists have proven only that certain questions are unanswered

Proven...yes that is a problem without evidence, isn't it? Yet the truthers have proven that the official explanation is mostly impossible. That puts the ball back in the court of the pigs and they ain't scoring any points.

angle  posted on  2006-10-16   22:59:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#223. To: leveller (#216)

WTC 7 bothers me, as do other problems with the official line

2 things square it away for me. The collapse of the 2 towers severely weakened the building - coupled with the fact Giuliani in a bone headed move built into the WTC7 his command bunker high up - the only known sky high bunker ever - and installed diesel fuel storage tanks - several thousand gallons - this caught on fire as the flaming debris fell into WTC7.

That is why WTC7 collapsed hours later.

"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom

Destro  posted on  2006-10-16   23:11:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#224. To: Destro (#194)

an appealing but distracting conspiracy theory that sucks away credibility and resources from the real deal.

Could you expound on what is the "real deal?"

“The tendency of democracies is, in all things, to mediocrity, since the tastes, knowledge, and principles of the majority form the tribunal of appeal.” James Fenimore Cooper

BTP Holdings  posted on  2006-10-16   23:12:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#225. To: Destro (#223)

2 things square it away for me. The collapse of the 2 towers severely weakened the building - coupled with the fact Giuliani in a bone headed move built into the WTC7 his command bunker high up - the only known sky high bunker ever - and installed diesel fuel storage tanks - several thousand gallons - this caught on fire as the flaming debris fell into WTC7.

That is why WTC7 collapsed hours later.

And if you really believe that is what lead to the collapse of WTC 7 then you indeed win the booby prize for swallowing such a bone headed theory yourself. :0)

“The tendency of democracies is, in all things, to mediocrity, since the tastes, knowledge, and principles of the majority form the tribunal of appeal.” James Fenimore Cooper

BTP Holdings  posted on  2006-10-16   23:15:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#226. To: BTP Holdings (#224)

Could you expound on what is the "real deal?"

An aspect of the conspiracy is to hide the fact that these 9/11 Muslims had ties with our intel orgs.

Now did our pet Muslims - used by the USA via proxies to fight the Russians and Serbs and Chinese and Indians - go rogue and double cross us?

Or were they doing what elements within our power structure wanted?

Maybe a little of both? That is the question - not how the buildings fell down - which is self evident and in fact meaningless because our govt is implicated one way or another.

"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom

Destro  posted on  2006-10-16   23:31:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#227. To: Destro (#226) (Edited)

An aspect of the conspiracy is to hide the fact that these 9/11 Muslims had ties with our intel orgs.

Many of us are aware of this.

And Richard Perle was all gung-ho about sending the Mujahideen trained in Afghanistan and Pakistan to fight for the Bosnians and the Albanians (in Kosovo).

Rogue? That is what the neocons are. The neocons have wormed their way into the power structure for the last 30 years.

Maybe, just maybe, this is all connected back to the covert operations started by Bush the Elder with the Iran Contra deals. In that case, it is the Bush Crime Family which is behind this, and the neocons have grasped the levers of power and propelled themselves into position to control the mightiest military in the world.

But the Bush's and their cohorts in crime are only water bearers for the real power behind the scenes, the international bankers. The Bush Crime Family is allowed to grab as much loot as they are able, as long as they keep in line with the program supplied by their ultimate controllers. There is no profit in peace.

It is hardly meaningless when another Pearl Harbor-type event is perpetrated which propels this nation into a scenario of perpetual war. This, in fact, is just what has been called for in the PNAC documents, which ties it all back to the Zionist regime.

“The tendency of democracies is, in all things, to mediocrity, since the tastes, knowledge, and principles of the majority form the tribunal of appeal.” James Fenimore Cooper

BTP Holdings  posted on  2006-10-16   23:50:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#228. To: BTP Holdings (#227)

There is no profit in peace.

Damn, I hate when that happens!

Good post.

Daniel Hopsicker on MadCow has done some good investigation into the arabs involved in 9/11. OBL and Saddam were on the CIA payroll at one time. We instigated the war between Iran/Iraq, and plenty others.

A lot of "population control" is going on in Iraq at the moment; Prince Philip must be so pleased, he didn't even have to be reincarnated as a royal virus.

Most Profound Man in Iraq — An unidentified farmer in a fairly remote area who, after being asked by Reconnaissance Marines if he had seen any foreign fighters in the area replied "Yes, you."

robin  posted on  2006-10-16   23:56:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#229. To: BTP Holdings (#227)

But the Bush's and their cohorts in crime are only water bearers for the real power behind the scenes, the international bankers. The Bush Crime Family is allowed to grab as much loot as they are able, as long as they keep in line with the program supplied by their ultimate controllers.

Good summary.

angle  posted on  2006-10-17   8:12:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#230. To: u-89 (#215)

Building on what I posted earlier . . .

Commonly you hear people expressing the sentiment that "our government" couldn't do such evil. How would it be possible to even start planning for such an act- wouldn't the very evil nature of it repel anyone remotely involved in it? In order for something like 9/11 to be pulled off there would have to exist a culture already in place with people who would think nothing of murdering innocents.

And that is a good question. And if this was the US government circa 1901 I would say such a conspiracy would be completely and totally impossible. The infrastructure of evil simply didn't exist in this country in 1901 for such an truly evil false flag op like 9/11 to be pulled off. But America circa 2001? Yes. You hear about how 9/11 was "blowback" because of US foreign policy- how pissed off Moooslims finally paid us back for 50 years of corrupt foreign policy in their part of the world. And that is quite believable.

But I happen to think it is another sort of blowback. It is the blowback of the CULTURE of empire that has been bred within our government for a 100 years. This is a culture that exists on its own, quite outside the rest of the country- that has its own rules, mores, and ways of doing things. 9/11 was merely the habits of empire coming home to roost.

Prior to 9/11 we had a government that was engaging in false flag operations as a matter of routine tactics in every corner of the globe. The OSS of WWII which later became the CIA had pulled off one of their first foreign engineered coups by 1953 in Iran by literally spreading around money to street thugs in Iran and installing the Shah. And the list of dubious operations only gets more suspect and more morally outrageous with the passage of time. Two, even three generations of intelligence ops all over the world involving assassinations, engineered coups, rigged elections, the funding of wholly artificial "Guerilla movements", Death squad training manuals . . . aiding governments with Death lists (Indonesia and 100,000 'communists' being killed in a week by Suharto is the best known example).

Now with that history, a history our media and text books don't dwell upon, known you are going to tell me that elements of the US Federal government are not amoral enough to do something like 9/11? Please. When you have literally thousands of people from many branches of government involved up to their eyeballs in the evil of running a de facto empire day in and day out for 50 years- with the habits only getting worse with time- and the participants more and more cynical and nihilistic- eventually the tactics employed by the empire to keep the Dirt people in line in the distant provinces are going to be used at home. It was only a matter of time. You can't keep the "necessary evil" that our "intelligence services" practice abroad from crossing the borders and being used here at home. Empires corrupt Republics.

When you have intelligence services monitoring foreign politicians and getting blackmail info on them- they will eventually do the same at home. When you have them engineering "plane accidents" for troublesome foreigners- they will do so at home. You can't keep this evil of Empire contained in a little box.

The culture for brainstorming and planning something like 9/11 did and does exist in our government. When you have people whose job it is to carry out outrageous muderous acts all over the globe and under the cover of darkness- most of which we still don't know about- such a suggestion or plan among them might have raised eyebrows because it was a plan directed against "Americans" and risky- but the "morality" of it would never have even come up among such people. This is what they do.

9/11 is blowback alright. It is blowback from our own shadow government that the rest of the world knows only too damn well.

Burkeman1  posted on  2006-10-17   10:08:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#231. To: Burkeman1 (#230)

So where's the chink in the armor...the achilles heel?

angle  posted on  2006-10-17   10:18:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#232. To: Burkeman1 (#230)

And if this was the US government circa 1901 I would say such a conspiracy would be completely and totally impossible. The infrastructure of evil simply didn't exist in this country in 1901 for such an truly evil false flag op like 9/11 to be pulled off. But America circa 2001? Yes.

When you have people whose job it is to carry out outrageous muderous acts all over the globe and under the cover of darkness- most of which we still don't know about- such a suggestion or plan among them might have raised eyebrows because it was a plan directed against "Americans" and risky- but the "morality" of it would never have even come up among such people. This is what they do.

Excellent post.

scrapper2  posted on  2006-10-17   10:24:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#233. To: Burkeman1 (#230)

But I happen to think it is another sort of blowback. It is the blowback of the CULTURE of empire that has been bred within our government for a 100 years. This is a culture that exists on its own, quite outside the rest of the country- that has its own rules, mores, and ways of doing things. 9/11 was merely the habits of empire coming home to roost.

Prior to 9/11 we had a government that was engaging in false flag operations as a matter of routine tactics in every corner of the globe.

agreed. excellent post again !

It was a ten second free fall..that's what I saw, that's what you saw..that's what everybody saw...

christine  posted on  2006-10-17   10:31:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#234. To: angle (#231)

The "Achilles heel" is that this isn't 1963. It is 2006 and the truth cannot be contained nearly as easily. But on the other hand we are a very different people from 1963 as well . . . we have been corrupted just as much as our shadow government. We are more stupid, more selfish, more atomized, and more dependent on government than we were in 1963. So . . . I don't know if there is one.

Burkeman1  posted on  2006-10-17   10:32:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#235. To: Destro (#226)

How the buildings fell is a bit of a distraction. In my view it is topping on the ice cream sunday. A far better avenue of approach is indeed the documented connections of the so called 9/11 hijackers to Pakistani intelligence. When you have the 9/11 commission basically saying that who paid them- who financed them- is "of no consequence" when the trail clearly leads back to Pakistan and their intelligence chief (and Pakistanni intelligence is a creature of the CIA itself) then something is up. We have known "knowns" so to speak with the hijackers and who paid them. We don't have such "knowns" when it comes to the buildings falling. Concentrating on the hijackers, who knew what when about them, who paid them . . . to me- is more interesting than why the buildings fell.

But on another level- I think a lot of the 9/11 truth movement has been concentrating on why the buildings fell because it is the THE IMAGE in the brains of Americans and what they associate 9/11 with- and the official line on those collapses is just so pathetic and improbable and frankly impossible.

Burkeman1  posted on  2006-10-17   10:51:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#236. To: Burkeman1 (#234)

It is 2006 and the truth cannot be contained nearly as easily. But on the other hand we are a very different people from 1963 as well . . . we have been corrupted just as much as our shadow government. We are more stupid, more selfish, more atomized, and more dependent on government than we were in 1963.

Maybe the hope is that "we" are different people today than in 1963 because we are more stupid, more selfish,etc.

Empires require a strong military to maintain status quo and I think this empire is straining its military to the n'th degree. I don't think the American hyphenated we's coming up the pipeline have any sense of patriotism or any sense of loyalty to this nation and they certainly will not take to conscription too well. So what options do the DC empire builders have - they are too greedy to pay mercenary wages to the GI's - I think we will see the empire implode when they run out of volunteer cannon fodder and if DC legalizes the 20-30 Million Hispanic aliens as both parties are wont to do - I think that's the achilles heel - a sudden infusion of hyphenated Americans who loathe the white gringo and who will not do his bidding.

scrapper2  posted on  2006-10-17   10:53:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#237. To: scrapper2, bluedogtxn (#236)

they are too greedy to pay mercenary wages to the GI's

bluedogtxn called today's military the JOB CORPS.

Most Profound Man in Iraq — An unidentified farmer in a fairly remote area who, after being asked by Reconnaissance Marines if he had seen any foreign fighters in the area replied "Yes, you."

robin  posted on  2006-10-17   11:12:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#238. To: Burkeman1, scrapper2, robin, angle, christine, BTP Holdings, leveller, swarthguy (#235)

How the buildings fell is a bit of a distraction. But on another level- I think a lot of the 9/11 truth movement has been concentrating on why the buildings fell because it is the THE IMAGE in the brains of Americans and what they associate 9/11 with- and the official line on those collapses is just so pathetic and improbable and frankly impossible.

The buildings were demolitioned by the govt is as a honey trap - an appealing but distracting conspiracy theory that sucks away credibility and resources from truth finders and inquisitive people out for the real deal.

The images is exactly why the buildings were dynamited makes an appealing honey trap - it is something tangible - to distract from the intangible - The 'Great Game' America has been playing into Central Asia from Bosnia all the way to 'Stans.

In fact I remember an article posted on a neocon right wing website blamed the rise of al-Qaeda and Islamic jihadis on the Soviets!! That is classic disinfo- distraction techniques being used by the neocons. (Read this bull here). This should send red flags up to most but they are too busy looking for squibb like explosions in grainy videos to notice.

The USA has been arming and training jihadis for 20 years via CIA contracting out Saudi and Paki intel orgs who in turn sub-contracted out to jihad groups like al-Qaeda.

Goal? To spread destabilization through Islamic uprisings that would allow UAS/NATO to swoop in and restore peace and a puppet democracy along the so called Green Road - From Bosnia to Afghanistan to Indonesia where oil and gas fields are and where pipelines come out from.

I think Osama read the American play book and liked the plan and made it his own. That is why in some areas al-Qaeda and America seemed at odds ('Stans) and in other areas seemed like allies (Balkans - Chechnya).

Burke said the 9/11 commish did not want to delve into the Pakistani connection. Why? Because that leads back to Washington and Texas.

The 9/11 cell was here as were dozens of other such Muslims for American approved training and fundraising and organizing for the jihad abroad. That is what they want to keep secret.

Maybe the 9/11 cell double-crossed their American allies? Maybe they were in league (maybe without even knowing it) with America's shadow govt players on 9/11?

That is where we need to look - not trying to see if implanted explosives did this or that - or turn 9/11 into a laughable real estate insurance plot by Silverstein - which is where 'they' want you to concentrate your resources and thoughts on.

"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom

Destro  posted on  2006-10-17   11:44:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#239. To: Burkeman1, scrapper2, robin, angle, christine, BTP Holdings, leveller, swarthguy (#235)

PS: An apology for my style (meaning apology in the Greek sense as a word meaning 'explanation').

I am using an old debate style and rhetorical technique - the Socratic method.

It antagonizes people at first but then leaves them open to what will be said after they exhaust themselves on their counter arguments.

Which is probably why the Athenians made him drink the hemlock.

"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom

Destro  posted on  2006-10-17   11:54:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#240. To: angle, Burkeman1 (#231)

So where's the chink in the armor...the achilles heel?

Russia, India, China.

"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom

Destro  posted on  2006-10-17   11:56:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#241. To: robin (#237)

scrapper: they are too greedy to pay mercenary wages to the GI's

robin: bluedogtxn called today's military the JOB CORPS

The Empire builders are unwilling to part with a nickel that does not go into their personal "purses." As a result JOB CORPS is not keeping up with wages commenserate with the "risks" of the current job openings.

The empire builders' lame carrots -ie. sign up bonuses of $10,000 - will not be enough as more vets return stateside from the killing fields of Iraq sans limbs, sans working brains and as these vets get a media profile.

Without an expanded grunt filled military, American empire will come to a screeching halt, if DC plans extending the war front. For too many years, fedgov has filled the ranks with affirmative action gender equal pencil pushing "career" soldiers, so the US military may look like it's got lots of warm bodies for the front lines, but that's not the case. North Korea, Iran, heck even Israel have more military warm bodies to fight as grunts for their nations than we do.

scrapper2  posted on  2006-10-17   12:11:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#242. To: Destro (#239)

I am using an old debate style and rhetorical technique - the Socratic method.

It antagonizes people at first but then leaves them open to what will be said after they exhaust themselves on their counter arguments

Let's hear more about this debate technique please.

Perhaps start a new thread.

Thank you kindly in advance..

Yours,

Lady X

Lady X  posted on  2006-10-17   12:24:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#243. To: Burkeman1 (#230)

But I happen to think it is another sort of blowback. It is the blowback of the CULTURE of empire that has been bred within our government for a 100 years.

The start was the American defeat in the Spanish-American War. That was the beginning of the empire.

“The tendency of democracies is, in all things, to mediocrity, since the tastes, knowledge, and principles of the majority form the tribunal of appeal.” James Fenimore Cooper

BTP Holdings  posted on  2006-10-17   12:31:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#244. To: Lady X (#242)

Let's hear more about this debate technique please.

We shall start by asking if you saw my application of the Socratic method work on this thread?

I kind of get a kick out of being disagreed with and then a little later on those that disagree with me actually agree with me (if only grudgingly).

"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom

Destro  posted on  2006-10-17   12:33:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#245. To: BTP Holdings (#243)

The start was the American defeat in the Spanish-American War. That was the beginning of the empire.

You meant American victory I am sure.

"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom

Destro  posted on  2006-10-17   12:34:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#246. To: Destro (#19)

But planes alone could not take down those towers. And NOTHING flew into WTC7.

Wrong - chunks of the collapsed towers flew into WTC7.

The Oklahoma City bombing was more damaging to the building and it never fell.... furthermore, the a-bomb dome (made of steel and glass) in Hiroshima, Japan was exposed to thousands of degrees of (nuclear) heat and never crumbled.....

-- "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed people can change the world. Indeed it is the only thing that ever has." - Margaret Mead

maggies mom  posted on  2006-10-17   12:34:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#247. To: Destro (#245)

It's us, Pogo was right, we have met the enemy and he is our erstwhile allies. LOL!

Devil's Game: How the United States Helped Unleash Fundamentalist Islam (American Empire Project) (Hardcover) by Robert Dreyfuss "THERE IS AN unwritten chapter in the history of the Cold War and the New World Order that followed..." (more)

Pray you will never know, the hell where youth and laughter go - Siegfried Sassoon. Ypres, Autumn 1914.

swarthyguy  posted on  2006-10-17   12:38:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#248. To: maggies mom (#246)

furthermore, the a-bomb dome (made of steel and glass) in Hiroshima, Japan was exposed to thousands of degrees of (nuclear) heat and never crumbled.....

And trees in Tunguska, Siberia that were under the exploding comet in 1903 stayed upright while the trees outward from the air blast were flattened.

Pressure down is different from pressure sideways.

Physics lesson 101.

WTC7 Is just across the street from the Towers. The collapse tore a gash in its side. The diesel tanks for the mayor's emergency command ignited.

The building was already a total loss - it fell what was it 12 or so hours later? - so you people who claim he had to pull it down for the insurance money are talking out your holes - the building was already a total loss in that condition.

"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom

Destro  posted on  2006-10-17   12:43:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#249. To: Destro (#245)

You meant American victory I am sure.

Nope, not at all. The supposed victory was really the death of the Republic since we took over Spain's colonies, and their headaches of the remainder of their empire. It was a tactical defeat for the U.S. We've been doing the same thing ever since, and all at the behest of free traders and corporate dominance.

“The tendency of democracies is, in all things, to mediocrity, since the tastes, knowledge, and principles of the majority form the tribunal of appeal.” James Fenimore Cooper

BTP Holdings  posted on  2006-10-17   12:45:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#250. To: Destro, maggies mom (#248)

WTC7 Is just across the street from the Towers. The collapse tore a gash in its side. The diesel tanks for the mayor's emergency command ignited.

Still peddling this bullcrap about WTC 7, I see. Got any pics that show the damage you claim? I've never seen any. Diesel fuel will not burn down a steel structure, or haven't you figured that out?

http://www.wtc7.net/location.html

Building 7's Location

WTC 7's location Building 7 occupied a city block immediately north of the World Trade Center complex. WTC 1 through WTC 6 were on the superblock bounded by West, Church, Liberty, and Vessey Streets. Building 7 was wedged between the Verizon and U.S. Post Office buildings across Vessey Street from the WTC complex. It straddled an electrical substation that filled the first two stories of about half the block.

People who have heard of Building 7 tend to assume that 'ancillary damage' from the collapses of the Twin Towers had something to do with Building 7's collapse. It is important to note that Building 7 was no closer to the towers than any of several other large buildings outside of the WTC complex. plan view The wall of Building 7 closest to the WTC complex was more than 300 feet from the nearest wall of the North Tower. It appears that nearly all of the heavy fallout from the disintegration of the North Tower landed short of Building 7. Building 6 stood between the North Tower and Building 7.

Building 7 was the only of the seven buildings with a World Trade Center address that was on a different block. It, along with the 6 other buildings, were completely or largely destroyed on September 11th. No buildings outside of the two turquoise zones in the map to the right suffered more than superficial damage.

WTC 1 explodingWTC 1 exploding
These photographs show Building 7 in front of the exploding North Tower. It is the square bronze building on the left. Even in the second photo, the nearest of the debris from the tower is several hundred feet behind Building 7.

“The tendency of democracies is, in all things, to mediocrity, since the tastes, knowledge, and principles of the majority form the tribunal of appeal.” James Fenimore Cooper

BTP Holdings  posted on  2006-10-17   13:01:48 ET  (4 images) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#251. To: BTP Holdings, maggies mom (#250)

Got any pics that show the damage you claim?

The above photo is very different than the photos you usually see on conspiracy sites.

"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom

Destro  posted on  2006-10-17   13:12:53 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#252. To: Destro, maggies mom (#251)

The above photo is very different than the photos you usually see on conspiracy sites.

It sure is, nothing but a smoke and dust cloud. Where is the structural damage? LOL

“The tendency of democracies is, in all things, to mediocrity, since the tastes, knowledge, and principles of the majority form the tribunal of appeal.” James Fenimore Cooper

BTP Holdings  posted on  2006-10-17   14:02:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#253. To: BTP Holdings, maggies mom (#252) (Edited)

sure is, nothing but a smoke and dust cloud. Where is the structural damage? LOL

See, that was a set up by me of you - lets me post another photo further debunking you.

"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom

Destro  posted on  2006-10-17   14:08:51 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#254. To: Destro (#253)

Riiight. You're here to discuss the truth of the matter.

angle  posted on  2006-10-17   14:10:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#255. To: Destro, maggies mom (#253)

See, that was a ste up by me of you - lets me post another photo further debunking you.

Oh, yeah, nice charade. That don't mean diddly. Furthermore, it in no way explains the classic demolition collapse of WTC 7. That damage on one corner of the building would never in a million years cause that building to collapse. And you are dreaming if you think you can convince anyone of this on here.

Posting this kind of nonsense will only serve for you to get the richly deserved moniker of DISINFORMATIONIST.

“The tendency of democracies is, in all things, to mediocrity, since the tastes, knowledge, and principles of the majority form the tribunal of appeal.” James Fenimore Cooper

BTP Holdings  posted on  2006-10-17   14:16:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#256. To: BTP Holdings, maggies mom (#255)

Furthermore, it in no way explains the classic demolition collapse of WTC 7. That damage on one corner of the building would never in a million years cause that building to collapse

You are a demolition's expert?

What is your expertise in the manner or are you repeating what websites tell you?

Also, you asked me for proof of my statement that there was a large gash in the side of the WTC7 building from the falling debris - so I provided 2 of them.

That you did not know there was such a gash speaks volumes on your knowledge (or lack there of) on the condition of the WTC 7 building.

"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom

Destro  posted on  2006-10-17   14:24:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#257. To: Destro (#244)

We shall start by asking if you saw my application of the Socratic method work on this thread?

I did not see it..

Lady X  posted on  2006-10-17   14:28:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#258. To: angle (#254)

Riiight. You're here to discuss the truth of the matter.

I was asked for proof of my statement that there was a large gash in the side of the WTC7 building from the falling debris - so I provided 2 of them.

That is all.

"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom

Destro  posted on  2006-10-17   14:28:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#259. To: Destro (#239)

Which is probably why the Athenians made him drink the hemlock.

The prosecution of Socrates was not without point.


Lord loves a workin' man; don't trust whitey; see a doctor and get rid of it.

Tauzero  posted on  2006-10-17   14:30:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#260. To: BTP Holdings (#255)

Furthermore, it in no way explains the classic demolition collapse of WTC 7. That damage on one corner of the building would never in a million years cause that building to collapse.

You dare make such a statement when at first you questioned my assertion that there ever existed such a huge structural gash to begin with????

Does that even classify as logical reasoning?

Science and reason don't work like that.

"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom

Destro  posted on  2006-10-17   14:34:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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