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Title: Confessions Of A 911 Hitman
Source:
www.rense.com
URL Source: http://www.rense.com/general73/confess.htm
Published: Oct 15, 2006
Author: Douglas Herman
Post Date: 2006-10-15 23:45:22 by robin
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Keywords: None
Views: 2704
Comments: 310
Confessions Of A 911 Hitman And are you sorry that all these faked resource wars have to be concocted so that you can get that oil and live comfortably? Didn't think so.
How & Why I Helped Blow Up The World Trade Center
By Douglas Herman
Exclusive to Rense.com
10-13-6 
MY job was to wire explosives inside the various WTC buildings. We wired buildings 1, 2, 6, and 7. We hardwired some areas and attached explosives and electronic detonators to many other key structural joints. We did this weeks in advance. WTC-7 fell in a classic controlled demolition (See example) but the Twin Towers required a lot more ingenuity. The fellow who planned the actual sequence of detonations is a genius. He was rumored to have been paid seven or eight figures and is a fucking master. Almost like a composer of a symphony orchestra but better. Much better. 
Longtime Rense writer, Douglas Herman wrote the suspense novel, The Guns of Dallas, that features a confessed hitman revealing the perfect scenario for the murder of JFK. The above scenario is fiction but probably far closer to the truth than anything yet offered in the so-called fact based media.
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#1. To: robin (#0)
(Edited)
Demolitions don't work that way. In fact demolitions won't bring down a building in and of themselves. That is why they spend more time gutting the inside of buildings and weakening the superstructure because the explosions would not do a thing in terms of getting the building to implode and fall down in a precise manner.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
So what are you saying took down the buildings?
Do I hear a fat lady singing?
http://www.implosionworld.com/wtc.h tm
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
So without explosives, cutting a few columns with planes, and then weakening a few with fire could take out an entire tower, but explosives alone could not have done it?
Do I hear a fat lady singing?
One of the arguments you hear routinely out of the mouths of the official line spewers is that such an operation couldn't be kept secret because of the enormous numbers of people who would need to be involved. Someone would talk- Larry King would interiew the guy. Bull. Yes- several hundred people would be needed to wire the towers, remove the gold- etc, etc. But what would such people really know? Not damn much. Your average bomb laying technician at the WTC would know absolutely nothing about the people who hired him. We have an "intelligence community" that has had 50 years to develop and mature. There are literally thousands upon thousands of contractors, soldiers of fortune, hitmen, free lancers- all in rolodex files that organizations like the CIA, Mossad, MI6, FSB, South African intelligence etc etc have used for thousands of jobs back and forth. There are men who exist in the shadows who have no ideological motivation and no national allegiance (patriotism is for suckers among these types) and who work for money. They are hired by brokers, hired through old contacts in the various official services they at one time worked for- hired through third and fourth parties so that they have no idea who is really hiring them. Money is transfered by wire accounts- again through three or four middlemen. What do they know? Nothing. The teams would be kept in cells- assigned a leader- they wouldn't even know the names of their other team members for the most part or their cell leader. They would use code names. To them- it would be just another black bag job- on a large scale to be sure- but one of many they had particpated in. These people have no scruples. They don't believe in "innocence". They know the dark underbelly of government and what it is capable of doing. But wouldn't one of them do something stupid and take his payments for helping pull off 9/11 and go to Vegas and blow it in a few days and find himself in need of some money- want to write a book- and make a few million? Yes- and that is exactly the sort of person you would have if anyone came forward- a totally impeachable reprobate who gambles, drinks, and otherwise leads a scummy life- in other words totally unbelievable. Wouldn't Larry King and the MSM pay attention to such a person? Please. When people say that 9/11 couldn't have been a conspiracy because the media would report I have to laugh. Do they mean the same MSM that ran with the government lies on Iraq? That ran stories on WMD and nuke programs from anonymous leakers in the government who then cited their own leaks in the papers on the News Shows as proof that they were true while our media didn't think it important that leakers were using their own leaks to spread misinfo? The press contradicted their own archives form just the mid 90's on WMD in spreading these stories. BLOGGERS were pointing this crap out in 2002! Bloggers picked apart Powell's UN speech and exposed it for the sham it was then! Not our MSM! There is an interview with a 9/11 Scholar on Tucker Carlson's show about his "theories". Carlson starts the interview off by saying the man is immoral and reprehensible for even suggesting these things. And that is the attitude of the MSM toward this story- facts be dammed. Even looking into it is "immoral".
The author should have written how he lives next to Elvis. It would have made the article more believable.
"We become what we behold. We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." -- Marshall McLuhan, after Alexander Pope and William Blake.
It is easier, quicker, safer, less expensive, cleaner and a must for insurance purposes to "prep" a building for demo. It has nothing to do with the inability of explosives to bring down a structure.
Mark The FBI, rather than trying to prevent a terrorist attack, was merely gathering intelligence so they would know who to arrest when a terrorist attack occurred.— Robert Wright - Former FBI agent Given the scope of the tragedy from last week, I am glad to reassure the people of New York and Washington, D.C., that their air is safe to breathe and their water is safe to drink."— Christie Todd Whitman - 9/18/2001
Destro with YT think evil Muslims flying planes and crashing them and fire brought down the towers. Nevermind about WTC 7. It got tired, an just fell down.
Mark The FBI, rather than trying to prevent a terrorist attack, was merely gathering intelligence so they would know who to arrest when a terrorist attack occurred.— Robert Wright - Former FBI agent Given the scope of the tragedy from last week, I am glad to reassure the people of New York and Washington, D.C., that their air is safe to breathe and their water is safe to drink."— Christie Todd Whitman - 9/18/2001
Oh, I loved it. So simple and easy to understand. And wasn't it nice of him to email and let us know what happened.
I buy the above guy's confession about as much as I buy those testimonies saying the WMD were taken to Syria. The whole 'buildings brought down by planted explosives' is based on the premise that the USA would not wake up the day after traumatized if only planes crashed into the towers. In other words (to use a Bushisim), the American people are sooooo stupid and dim that the sight of planes slamming into buildings is not horrific enough they need to have these buildings fall down on them for the powers that be to do anything. Trust me, I was across from the WTC and we saw the planes slam into the buildings from our office windows. People were freaking out - the trauma that leads to blind obedience was already there. Americans are stupid but not that stupid that they needed the additional buildings to fall to get them to understand something scary just happened. I don't know if you all are aware of my posting history. I questioned the 9/11 events from day one. The real conspiracy is the fact that these 9/11 Muslims had ties with our intel orgs. Now did our pet Muslims - used by the USA via proxies to fight the Russians and Serbs and Chinese and Indians - go rogue and double cross us? Or were they doing what elements within our power structure wanted? Maybe a little of both? That is the question - not how the buildings fell down - which is self evident. Unlike most Americans I had a few years in the so called "anti-American" trenches digging up the lies the USA told about the situation in Kosovo and Bosnia and the murky American and British alliances with jihadists. (which kept leading to my bannings on freetraderrepublic).
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Giuliani that retard decided he wanted his command center in a high-rise building instead of the traditional underground model and then loaded that building with duel tanks filled with thousands of gallons of diesel fuel for the emergency generators. WTC7 already had a chuck of it taken out when the other buildings fell and then the fire weakened the rest of it. A slow cook of thousands of gallons of diesel oil inside the WTC7.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
In fact demolitions won't bring down a building in and of themselves. That is why they spend more time gutting the inside of buildings and weakening the superstructure because the explosions would not do a thing in terms of getting the building to implode and fall down in a precise manner. Which is exactly what the man who wrote this saying, that it took years to plan this and months to prepare the building. BTW, have you watched any of the excellent 9/11 videos that have been made this year?
Aren't you going to post the author's I.Q. score? And if you're so smart how do you explain the free fall speed at which these buildings fell?
Sorry - this theory fails Occam's Razor theorem.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Have you seen any of the excellent 9/11 videos made recently? They explain with high school physics how the buildings fell at the rate of free fall and that this only happens in a demolition. They also show the squibs (the explosives going off under each falling floor) that precede that fall. They also interviewed some of the surviving tenants of the building who describe some of the odd goings on before 9/11. They also replay the sound of some powerful explosions that precede the fall of each tower. They also play the video of Larry Silverstein, who coincidently owned all 3 buildings that fell that day, saying on the video "so I told them to 'pull it'". He used a term used in demolitions regarding WTC7.
He waited 5 years to write it, and from a safe distance. Do you too believe that the buildings pancaked on top of each other; yet managed to fall at the rate of free fall? So since the floors were around the steel center core, why isn't the core still standing? The pancake theory doesn't hold water regarding the center core and no one who tries to hold that theory can ever explain the center core not still standing. But demolition explains everything.
But planes alone could not take down those towers. And NOTHING flew into WTC7. Are you familiar with Dov Zakheim's contribution to a report by PNAC, explaining that a "new Pearl Harbor" is necessary? I know you must already know about the Reichstag fire and the faked invasion of Germany by Poland.
Wow - he let the bag out on a PBS interview - LOL - it was not a slip heard on some CB. People don't tell you that - they make it sound like his calls were intercepted. It was in reference to pulling out of WTC 7 and not trying to save it.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Wrong - chunks of the collapsed towers flew into WTC7.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
And you think that was enough to make a building fall at the rate of free fall? There were a few small fires. And Silverstein said "pull it", he is on video saying those words. Yet other buildings nearby had more chunks fall on them than WTC7 and they did not fall.
Not true, have you seen the video interview where he says exactly "pull it"?
Of course I don't believe the official lie. I just don't happen to believe that this fellow was involved. Story's too schmaltzy. Neither do I buy anything Destro's been writing on this thread.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/011904wtc7.html Lucky Larry http://www.informationliberation.com/index.php?id=15459 I just don't happen to believe that this fellow was involved. Story's too schmaltzy. I make no claims about the author's authenticity. The article does raise questions and suggest answers as to how it was done. The interviews with some of the surviving tenants of WTC spoke of some very odd work being done prior to 9/11.
The above scenario is fiction but probably far closer to the truth than anything yet offered in the so-called fact based media.
His story fits too carefully into the framework set up by the truthers...he sounds like a plant that has a lot of potential to be discredited. Ya gotta ask yourself...why would a guy come forward and admit to treason and give a heads- up on his whereabouts to the cabal? Doesn't pass the smell test. You know, I know and one third of America knows the BushCheneyInc et al and their globalist backers pulled off this most outrageous of coups. The question is no longer did they or how did they, but what to do about it now.
Yes. Have you?
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
I'll agree with that.
That was the last line in the story. It really is a fictional application.....
your analysis is very sound. americans do some things very very well historically, actually many things. military endeavors and intelligence operations are things that we have historically done very well. of course our people could pull off the 911 events. and of course our media will fail to uncover it, it is their job to fail to uncover it. do you think our intelligence services are incompetent? they would be so if our MSM would uncover it and publicize it.
If any of the above scenario is true - and I don't think it is - then taking into account that America produces such people and that the American people do nothing to remove such people from power - the only logical conclusion from this - again only if the above is true and I don't think it is - then the American people need to be put an end to. Such evil people need have their seed scattered and their earth salted. That you all talk about the USA doing this and then not leading an armed rebellion to stop such monsters - who plant demolitions within their own buildings to kill their own citizens for profit - means either you all live in a fantasy world where you like to spook yourselves with campfire ghost stories of govt conspiracies or you are cowards. I will tell you this - if I thought my nation's leadership planted explosives in the WTC attacks on us - and I don't - but if I did - I would be organizing an armed resistance and killing anyone working for the govt and anyone wearing a uniform and any and all elected officials in the manner of the IRA or the Serbian Black Hand. Because this is not idle and light speculation - it is deadly serious accusation against the govt that demands armed action. So when are you all going to head into the mountains and form the resistance?
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
If they (whoever they are) could have pulled this 9-11 thing off, the Iraqi war would have been better planned and resulting problems dealt with more intelligently, Afghanistan would be applying for statehood, The DPRK would have been dealt with differently and solved long ago, Iran would have already been overthrown from within, (probably the easiest task) and South and Central America would not be in the mess they are with Chavez acting like a kitten or being a really dead former leader of Venezeula. The MSM would love to expose a 9-11 coverup, but it is just too far out there.
Amen.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Doesn't your argument apply just as much in reverse? If Al Qaeda was really the bunch that pulled off 9/11, wouldn't they have been able to prevent the defeat of the Taliban in Afghanistan? Of course, that's not much of an argument. The two situations are so different. But the same can be said of 9/11 and America's war in Iraq.
Katrina was America's Chernobyl.
Bad application of logic. You forget two things. 1) al-Qaeda is an insurgency based organization. 2) The 9/11 cell was able to operate in the USA because they were American intelligence assets - one of many such jihadi groups allowed to enter into the USA to train and raise money and organize to carry out jihad against mutual enemies of al-Qaeda and America like Serbia and Russia.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
I'm been involved in construction since the day I was born, and have seen many buildings fall. There was nothing out of the ordinary at the speed they fell. They also -- all of them -- fall into their own "footprint." This is why you never see articles by those involved in demolition support these goofy theories.
"We become what we behold. We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." -- Marshall McLuhan, after Alexander Pope and William Blake.
I do not think the 9-11 hijacker jokers and those who planned it ever expected the catastropic results they got. If they (again, whoever they are) did plan the implosion and destruction of the WTC, it was the results they attempted to attain. Being able to plan and pull off that mission would imply more ability than most give this group in power and more than they have shown in ALL their other endeavors.
well, I appreciate your argument in #32. that is a rational argument. I don't agree with your assessment of the MSM. the MSM is a dishonest propaganda tool IMHO. also, the simple facts of 911 don't jibe with official explanations. But I put it to you that if our only goal was to topple saddam and free Iraq, that it would've been achieved easily. Saddam and his regime were removed very quickly & easily. the thing to do then would be for the US forces to leave the scene and let other isntitutions take over, mostly iraqi institutions and international efforts too, they could've easily transitioned to a democracy. Remember, Iraq had a democracy from 1933 to mid 1950's. the US goal in Iraq is not for Iraq to be free though. the goal is for Iraq to be dominated strongly. this is why we're having so much trouble - it is difficult nation to subjugate, especially with only 150,000 troops on the ground. Don't under-estimate also, that war seems to be the big goal, instigating a wider war seems likely to be part of the real goal. the people who set US policy are not incompetent, they are doing precisely and exactly what they desire.
This is why you never see articles by those involved in demolition support these goofy theories. That is a good point - no one of those pushing the demolition theory has a background in construction or the demolition business. And what you said is also true - all high-rise buildings are designed to fall in on themselves in cases of structural failure to prevent the timber effect.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Yup, those 1000+ foot tall towers are falling all the time. Yup, by the hundreds. Nothing out of the ordinary here.
Do I hear a fat lady singing?
To my thinking, the real conspiracy is the fact that these 9/11 Muslims had ties with our intel orgs. Now did our pet Muslims - used by the USA via proxies to fight the Russians and Serbs and Chinese and Indians - go rogue and double cross us? Or were they doing what elements within our power structure wanted? Maybe a little of both? That is the question - not how the buildings fell down - which is self evident.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Not so. Believers of the official collapse theory are generally full of contradiction and you seem to be one of them. In one breath you say it would be too difficult to rig the buildings with explosives to take them down, and then in the next breath say that a plane takes out a few columns and a fire weakens a few more and that causes a total collapse to the ground of 2 110 story buildings. It's one or the other. The buildings are easy to take down, or difficult, but not both. I don't believe it was a "controlled" demolition. I think it was an uncontrolled demolition, but a demolition none the less.
Do I hear a fat lady singing?
If they had assistance from people working inside the buildings, I don't see how that could have happened without assistance from inside the government. And just how did they manage to time their attack to be simultaneous with the air defense exercises going on that morning?
Katrina was America's Chernobyl.
I beleive in the official planes hit the building theory. Why do you guys assume that they needed an additional building collapse to make the day more horrible? The WTC was built in a non traditional way. It was not built like the Empire State Building or other previous skyrisers. It was a columnless structure - supported by a core and the outer skin. Thie made for quick construction and an open floor space. So it would be a miracle of the building could stand up with such gashes in its superstructure. But the govt loves people going nuts over this because this becomes the dominant theory that draws peoples attention away from the true murky background of 9/11. I will repeat again, the real conspiracy is the fact that these 9/11 Muslims had ties with our intel orgs. Now did our pet Muslims - used by the USA via proxies to fight the Russians and Serbs and Chinese and Indians - go rogue and double cross us? Or were they doing what elements within our power structure wanted? Maybe a little of both? That is the question - not how the buildings fell down - which is self evident. All coverups regarding 9/11 has had to do with erasing ties that linked America and al-Qaeda - especially into Bosnia-Kosovo-Chechnya. The 9/11 cell was mostly composed of CIA supported jihadi veterans of the Bosnian Muslim jihadi army and vets of Chechnya.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Yes of course. Have you seen any of the excellent 9/11 videos made recently? They explain with high school physics how the buildings fell at the rate of free fall and that this only happens in a demolition. They also show the squibs (the explosives going off under each falling floor) that precede that fall. They also interviewed some of the surviving tenants of the building who describe some of the odd goings on before 9/11. They also replay the sound of some powerful explosions that precede the fall of each tower. -----------------------------------------
I'm been involved in construction since the day I was born, and have seen many buildings fall. There was nothing out of the ordinary at the speed they fell. They also -- all of them -- fall into their own "footprint." This is why you never see articles by those involved in demolition support these goofy theories. From every article I have read you are the only one in the construction industry who believes this. There was something VERY extraordinary about the speed they fell. Free fall is ONLY achieved by demolition.
2) Don't under-estimate also, that war seems to be the big goal, instigating a wider war seems likely to be part of the real goal. the people who set US policy are not incompetent, they are doing precisely and exactly what they desire. 1) True, but I see the 9-11 factor being too far out there for them to run with. It seems that despite the attention this gets, it is still a small % that really ""honestly"" think anyone in power here had anything to do with it. The MSM, by ignoring it for the most part, are perpetuating the fallacy. 2) Again me thinks you over estimate their abilities and powers. If that was their goal, the event would have been over long ago and another in operation. There were no traces of a republic, as Iraq was a kingdom from 1932 until 1958 when a Republic was declared but a series of strongmen dictators actually ran the nation with Saddam being the latest. The median age of Iraq is less than 20, while 40% are less than 14. There is little or no memory of anything but Saddam. The error as I see it, was trying to set up a Democracy. We should have told the UN "cleanup on isle 5" and left. Of course that would not have worked because they had failed to already solve the Iran mess. This group was just not capable of the 9-11 inside job. By that I mean being able to pull it off and not leaving so much evidence that it would be a slam dunk.
Do you too believe that the buildings pancaked on top of each other; yet managed to fall at the rate of free fall? So since the floors were around the steel center core, why isn't the core still standing? The pancake theory doesn't hold water regarding the center core and no one who tries to hold that theory can ever explain the center core not still standing. But demolition explains everything.
just those pesky airplanes
Rephrase that sentence. It is badly composed. As for: And just how did they manage to time their attack to be simultaneous with the air defense exercises going on that morning? Three possibilities: 1) The Americans were tipped off on the plot without the 9/11 cell knowing they were being monitored and the American authorities decided to let the plot go forward and monitor it under the guise of this air defense exercise. 2) The 9/11 cell had allies within the govt. 3) Coincidence. I don't know. I am convinced that the 9/11 cell was part of a wide group of jihadis the USA used in her black operations around the world though at that time they were concentrated in Bosnia and Kosovo and Chechnya. What I don't know for certain is if al-Qaeda was in bed with the USA at that time - or half in bed in some areas and half on its own in others or went rogue fully just before 9/11 - just around the same time the USA was shutting down jihadi operations in the Balkans and Chechnya.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
I don't know where to start with this, but I'll give it a try. Is your name at LP Yukon or BeAChooser? So you believe the buildings were easy to take down? So why is it impossible for some well placed charges to have done the same job? Simply watching the reactions when planes hit, compared to reactions when buildings fell, tells me that the collapses had MUCH more of an impact on the public at large. That is blatantly false. They were designed to stand despite a catastrophic loss to much more of the structure. You are BeAChooser, aren't you? It doesn't draw away from the murky background, it helps shine light on it. The 9/11 Muslims, if they exist, were commanded by our intel. Yes, they were acting as ordered, if they existed at all.
Do I hear a fat lady singing?
So since the floors were around the steel center core, why isn't the core still standing? The freefall rate is one man's work based on his own assumptions - a man not involved in the construction or demolition industry. The steel core is what to you? Some super duper adamantium structure? Like one long solid bar of steel that would be left standing like a pipe? Come on - you are making stuff up as you go along based on cartoon notions of pyhsics. Physics as composed by Bugs Bunny.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
No - it's Destro. It's Destro also on Libertyforum. It was Destro on Freerepublic as well as Spar and Pericles earlier - they were banned as well. Google me. Destro+Freerepublic. Have fun.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
That is incorrect. Many have produced video and calculation to prove this. The steel core is what to you? Some super duper adamantium structure? Like one long solid bar of steel that would be left standing like a pipe? Hardly. You really have not studied any of the proof about the demolition of 9/11 have you? No, I don't make stuff up. I have done a lot of reading about what others have spent a great deal of their education and time studying and proving. http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/april2006/210406runattack.htm The official explanation is laughable (in the words of Andreas Von Bülow): Former Helmut Schmidt cabinet member, 25-year German Parliamentarian and global intelligence expert Andreas Von Bülow says that the 9/11 attack was run by the highest levels of the US intelligence apparatus using WTC Building 7 as a command bunker which was later demolished in order to destroy the crime scene. But you prefer to believe Lucky Larry and George Bush. Not much anyone can say to you really.
Wow - the govt sure has some awesome psychic powers - because if I was in the meeting and told the plan would be to have planes hit the tower to create a terror effect to cow the people I would not even think you needed even more horror to carry such a task out! I mean I could see the presenter telling the panel - 'but wait, there's more!' It stretches not only credibility but Occam's Therum.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Not psychic really. It just so happened that there were numerous other reasons to take out those buildings. It became a matter of convenience I think. Get rid of the albatros, and seriously shock the American public at the same time.
Do I hear a fat lady singing?
What does Occam Theorum tell you about Flight 800 or the Kennedy assasination?
Do I hear a fat lady singing?
I shudder at your powers of deduction. If you get such things wrong how can I trust any insight you may have? 19. To: BeAChooser, AGAviator (#18) BeAChooser will accept that there is an Iraqi civil war when they come out with the commemorative Iraqi Civil War chess set. Destro posted on 2006-08-03 16:43:10 ET http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=153281&Disp=19#C19 See also: Old Fud, Badeye, BeAChooser (#39) I outlined in detail why the WMD went to Syria story is a fabrication held on to for whatever reason by a certain faction. Destro posted on 2006-07-31 15:00:11 ET @ http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi? ArtNum=152737&Disp=43#C43 79. To: BeAChooser AND I STILL DON'T SUPPORT WHAT THE IDF IS GOING TO LEBANON. Destro posted on 2006-08-03 16:20:25 ET @ http://www.libertypost.org/cgi- bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=153320&Disp=79#C79
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
http://prisonplanet.com is a joke.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
WOW! Who knew govt could be so efficient - get the terror effect and get some badly needed demolition work all in one! I mean they are so confident that they can plan to stage two catastrophic events without a hitch!! Please.....
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
I read that Iraq had a democracy from 1933 to mid-1950's. when the english finally left Iraq in 1932 or 1933 after they killed so many Iraqis including the use of chemical weapons (WW1 style warfare) they did set up a democracy. and it worked for 2 decades. then when the strong-men took over Iraq in mid- 1950's the US took Saddam Hussein's clique and made them the rulers through covert CIA activity. The US has been against democracy all along in Iraq. and the Iraqis had a history of making elections actually work prior to US involvement.
of course we're all speculating, because we don't know exactly & precisely what happened. but I'd say this above is more like it. all the muslim terrorists did was get on the planes as directed and behave in a suspicious manner prior to the event so that they could be blamed later. all the hard work was carried out by a covert activities of the clique that rules us. they're very good at what they do. we're being terrorized all right, the clique that rules is terrorizing us. to stampede us politically to where they want, to justify the wars they want, the police state they want, etc. it is a time of great trouble. and we need to seek shelter from the one who made us.
That may/probably is true but only 3% of the country is over 64 or over so there are only a few that could even remember those days and most of those would have been childhood memories. It was officially a kingdom from 1932 to 1958 when a Republic was declared. Remember North Koreas' official name is "The Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea", but is neither, as I suspect Iraq was not a real republic. Shoot, some say we really aren't either.
Ahh, I thought this was the fictional scenario to which they were referring.
So you're try to convince the readership that the al qaida dun it is plausible. There are so many points that have been refuted to date that your time consuming and illogical arguments out you as a shill floating trial balloon explanations. I don't buy your acts.
It threatens the agendas of the people who want the globalists plan to work. These people own MSM. They are thwarted by the internet.
Physically impossible.
Blatantly false. The time has been proven by numerous researchers. Professor Steven Jones is a respected physicist and his research has been peer-reviewed.
Yes it is.
I'll believe Alex Jones over Lucky Larry Silverstein any day of the week.
With no experience in demolition or construction or engineering.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Yes it is. So when will you rise up and target the regime? I am for wiping out America from stem to stern - scattering her seed - salting her earth if the above scenario is true. Hell, I am ready to do that right now for what America did in Bosnia and Kosovo.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Alex Jones is a joke.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Name the peers - dare ya. The paper has been the center of controversy both for its content and its claims to scientific rigour. Engineers have dismissed the controlled demolition hypothesis with reference to the consensus that has formed in the engineering community about the collapses.[19][20] Jones's early critics included members of BYU's engineering faculty[21] and shortly after he made his views public, the BYU College of Physical and Mathematical Sciences and the faculty of structural engineering issued statements in which they distanced themselves from Jones' research. They noted that Jones' "hypotheses and interpretations of evidence were being questioned by scholars and practitioners", and expressed doubts about whether they had been "submitted to relevant scientific venues that would ensure rigorous technical peer review."[22] While Jones has always maintained that the paper was peer-reviewed prior to publication, doubts about this remain. On Thursday, September 7, 2006, Jones removed his paper from BYU's website at the request of administrators and was placed on paid leave. htt p://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_E._Jones#WTC_collapse_controversy
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
And in what way do you find him a joke? Examples please. The scientific laws governing falling bodies is the science of physics.
Mark The FBI, rather than trying to prevent a terrorist attack, was merely gathering intelligence so they would know who to arrest when a terrorist attack occurred.— Robert Wright - Former FBI agent Given the scope of the tragedy from last week, I am glad to reassure the people of New York and Washington, D.C., that their air is safe to breathe and their water is safe to drink."— Christie Todd Whitman - 9/18/2001
The paper has undergone significant modifications following a third set of peer reviews organized by Journal of 9/11 Studies Editor Kevin Ryan. An earlier version was accepted for publication in a volume edited by David Ray Griffin and Peter Dale Scott, 9/11 And The American Empire: Intellectuals Speak Out, Northhampton, MA: Interlink Publishing. Do your own research, shill.
Bull. Yes- several hundred people would be needed to wire the towers, remove the gold- etc, etc. But what would such people really know? Not damn much. Your average bomb laying technician at the WTC would know absolutely nothing about the people who hired him. We have an "intelligence community" that has had 50 years to develop and mature. There are literally thousands upon thousands of contractors, soldiers of fortune, hitmen, free lancers- all in rolodex files that organizations like the CIA, Mossad, MI6, FSB, South African intelligence etc etc have used for thousands of jobs back and forth. There are men who exist in the shadows who have no ideological motivation and no national allegiance (patriotism is for suckers among these types) and who work for money. They are hired by brokers, hired through old contacts in the various official services they at one time worked for- hired through third and fourth parties so that they have no idea who is really hiring them. Money is transfered by wire accounts- again through three or four middlemen. What do they know? Nothing. The teams would be kept in cells- assigned a leader- they wouldn't even know the names of their other team members for the most part or their cell leader. They would use code names. To them- it would be just another black bag job- on a large scale to be sure- but one of many they had particpated in. These people have no scruples. They don't believe in "innocence". They know the dark underbelly of government and what it is capable of doing. But wouldn't one of them do something stupid and take his payments for helping pull off 9/11 and go to Vegas and blow it in a few days and find himself in need of some money- want to write a book- and make a few million? Yes- and that is exactly the sort of person you would have if anyone came forward- a totally impeachable reprobate who gambles, drinks, and otherwise leads a scummy life- in other words totally unbelievable. Wouldn't Larry King and the MSM pay attention to such a person? Please. When people say that 9/11 couldn't have been a conspiracy because the media would report I have to laugh. Do they mean the same MSM that ran with the government lies on Iraq? That ran stories on WMD and nuke programs from anonymous leakers in the government who then cited their own leaks in the papers on the News Shows as proof that they were true while our media didn't think it important that leakers were using their own leaks to spread misinfo? The press contradicted their own archives form just the mid 90's on WMD in spreading these stories. BLOGGERS were pointing this crap out in 2002! Bloggers picked apart Powell's UN speech and exposed it for the sham it was then! Not our MSM! There is an interview with a 9/11 Scholar on Tucker Carlson's show about his "theories". Carlson starts the interview off by saying the man is immoral and reprehensible for even suggesting these things. And that is the attitude of the MSM toward this story- facts be dammed. Even looking into it is "immoral". I'm copying your excellent post here, as the thread lengthens.
The demo job was part of the total psy-op. The twin towers were a financial disaster huge money loser. Also the needed upgrades to the towers were estimated at over a billion dollars. Larry cleared almost 6-7 billion in insurance, and the companies that paid out the loss have gone and raised rates across the country to cover the expense. Now Silverstein and NYC can have a "Freedom Tower" and a new "rebirth" in the downtown area. There are billions and billions to be made.
Mark The FBI, rather than trying to prevent a terrorist attack, was merely gathering intelligence so they would know who to arrest when a terrorist attack occurred.— Robert Wright - Former FBI agent Given the scope of the tragedy from last week, I am glad to reassure the people of New York and Washington, D.C., that their air is safe to breathe and their water is safe to drink."— Christie Todd Whitman - 9/18/2001
That's a horseshit argument to begin with. The Manhattan Project was kept secret for years by thousands and thousands of people. They only revealed it when they had to.
formerly GJones.
Really? What "chunks" are you describing? There is no credible proof or evidence of "chunks" or any severe damage of any type. When in the history structual steel skyscrapers, does fire in any form, cause buildings to collapse? When in history has weakened steel collapsed at near freefall speeds? How does diesel fuel evaporate steel? It takes 5000 degrees to accomplish this.
Mark The FBI, rather than trying to prevent a terrorist attack, was merely gathering intelligence so they would know who to arrest when a terrorist attack occurred.— Robert Wright - Former FBI agent Given the scope of the tragedy from last week, I am glad to reassure the people of New York and Washington, D.C., that their air is safe to breathe and their water is safe to drink."— Christie Todd Whitman - 9/18/2001
I think one has to ask oneself why a poster like destro would come to this site posting the rhetoric he/she does if he/she in fact was looking for truth.
I've worked on a few sensitive projects and it is very easy to keep them secret. So, I agree with you and you should post more often. Is Santorum toast?
Who was Larry pulling out? WTC 7 was evacuated completely before noon. At that time, there were no fires on any floor.
Mark The FBI, rather than trying to prevent a terrorist attack, was merely gathering intelligence so they would know who to arrest when a terrorist attack occurred.— Robert Wright - Former FBI agent Given the scope of the tragedy from last week, I am glad to reassure the people of New York and Washington, D.C., that their air is safe to breathe and their water is safe to drink."— Christie Todd Whitman - 9/18/2001
No, you are wrong. Also, if you are correct, (and you are not) since when does asymetrical damage and fire, cause a symetrical bottom up implosion with squibs running up the right side of WTC 7 and causing it to fall in 6.5 seconds?
Mark The FBI, rather than trying to prevent a terrorist attack, was merely gathering intelligence so they would know who to arrest when a terrorist attack occurred.— Robert Wright - Former FBI agent Given the scope of the tragedy from last week, I am glad to reassure the people of New York and Washington, D.C., that their air is safe to breathe and their water is safe to drink."— Christie Todd Whitman - 9/18/2001
Good example. I'll add one that is not as good as it was of short duration. During WWII, my mother and the other Army Air Corps wives she knew were "upset" that their husbands did not tell them about D-Day beforehand. ;P Then when "the bomb" was dropped on Hiroshima, all the wives knew about it from the radio before their husbands knew, who were in shock at the news.
Yeah, this is a real joke. Let's see you refute AJ's documentation of government sponsored terrorism and false flag operations. Funny, governments themselves admit to it. Bet you won't watch it the same as you didn't watch 911 Mysteries: Demolitions.
It was a ten second free fall..that's what I saw, that's what you saw..that's what everybody saw...
I actually agree with #2. 25% of the patsy hijackers were trained intell assets with ties from Afganistan/Pakistan/Saudi/Western Intell. 40% of the hijackers were doubles, had false ids or are still alive. These hijackers were used as a paper trail to cover the real culprits.
Mark The FBI, rather than trying to prevent a terrorist attack, was merely gathering intelligence so they would know who to arrest when a terrorist attack occurred.— Robert Wright - Former FBI agent Given the scope of the tragedy from last week, I am glad to reassure the people of New York and Washington, D.C., that their air is safe to breathe and their water is safe to drink."— Christie Todd Whitman - 9/18/2001
Mark The FBI, rather than trying to prevent a terrorist attack, was merely gathering intelligence so they would know who to arrest when a terrorist attack occurred.— Robert Wright - Former FBI agent Given the scope of the tragedy from last week, I am glad to reassure the people of New York and Washington, D.C., that their air is safe to breathe and their water is safe to drink."— Christie Todd Whitman - 9/18/2001
I call for the elimination of America and I am a shill?
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Tell that to Joe Stalin.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Then why fireproof the steel beams?
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
I posted a more credible conspiracy that also implicates the govt - you guy are obsessed with demolition charges - why? Because you want to implicate the US govt but don't know how. I was posting regarding 9/11 even before 9/11. I was the first to reveal that Muslims in America for training were in fact from the Bosnian Muslim army the CIA was helping - a fact kept secret until several years later. Burke may remember those exposes by me back in the day on Freerepublic.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
This wasa complete military op. Planned for years. This was going to happen even if Gore was in. It would have been a little different, but the results would be near the same. This adminstration has got everything it has wanted. Iraq is going to plan perfectly. The police state is being installed. The NAU is moving along. The Pentagon got its war and all the money involved. The multi national corps are raking it in. The Greater Israel Plan is being implemented. All looks good if you are a Neo Con Global Fascist.
Mark The FBI, rather than trying to prevent a terrorist attack, was merely gathering intelligence so they would know who to arrest when a terrorist attack occurred.— Robert Wright - Former FBI agent Given the scope of the tragedy from last week, I am glad to reassure the people of New York and Washington, D.C., that their air is safe to breathe and their water is safe to drink."— Christie Todd Whitman - 9/18/2001
There are and have been demolition, structual and civil engineers that have questioned the official fairytale. You are making a claim that engineers build skyscrapers to fail, collapse and implode on themselves? I would like to see all the evidence of this in history. I'm also sure, insurance companies would like to know this also.
Mark The FBI, rather than trying to prevent a terrorist attack, was merely gathering intelligence so they would know who to arrest when a terrorist attack occurred.— Robert Wright - Former FBI agent Given the scope of the tragedy from last week, I am glad to reassure the people of New York and Washington, D.C., that their air is safe to breathe and their water is safe to drink."— Christie Todd Whitman - 9/18/2001
Someone looking for truth would at least watch the 9/11 videos. The recent ones are really good.
America used and uses false flags all the time - case in point the staged Kosovo Racak massacre to start the NATO war for Kosovo. I don't doubt that American interest may be involved in the 9/11 attack - just that the need to add on the demolition is not required. In fact I think the spread of the 9/11 demolition nonsense as well as claims that drones hit the towers is in fact a honey trap - a sweet irresistible trap designed to taint truth gatherers on the subject by popularizing the more nutty elements. Back to you. I don't support American foreign policy - I supported Milosevic and the Serbs against NATO - I was trhilled when the Serbs shot down American planes. I support the Russians against the neocon American agenda. I consider America to be an exporter of jihad and an enemy of Orthodox Christians everywhere - a nation that may need be destroyed. Do I sound like a shill? When you guys figure me out let me know.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Most of the jackers were well known to Serbian authorities - they were American trained jihadists.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
How can structual steel girders that were exposed to fire and heat that burned at 480 degrees, according to NIST/Fema tests, have all the girders, supports and bolt couplings fail all at once, bring two towers down symetrically?
Mark The FBI, rather than trying to prevent a terrorist attack, was merely gathering intelligence so they would know who to arrest when a terrorist attack occurred.— Robert Wright - Former FBI agent Given the scope of the tragedy from last week, I am glad to reassure the people of New York and Washington, D.C., that their air is safe to breathe and their water is safe to drink."— Christie Todd Whitman - 9/18/2001
none of us call for the destruction of America except you. You are unique in that. you asked why they use fireproofing on structural steel of buildings. That is done as a safety measure, a safety precaution. The fireproofing will protect the steel from the heat for 1-2 hours in a bad fire. that is why it is done. it doesn't matter whether fireproofing doesn't actually stop buildings from collapsing due to the fact that no steel building has ever fell due to fire. From a theoretical point of view fire might cause a building to collapse. remember they use lots of safety factors when designing buildings. the fireproofing is done because designers and code authorities wish to have lots and lots of safety precautions.
WHAT? The towers were overbuilt by 600%. The inner main core had 47 massive girders that were 36" by 52" and were 4" thick at the base and were rated at 42,000 psi. Then the core was criss crossed with horizonal girders all the way from the bottom to the top. It could stand alone without the floors or the outer girders which were rated at 100,000 psi.
Mark The FBI, rather than trying to prevent a terrorist attack, was merely gathering intelligence so they would know who to arrest when a terrorist attack occurred.— Robert Wright - Former FBI agent Given the scope of the tragedy from last week, I am glad to reassure the people of New York and Washington, D.C., that their air is safe to breathe and their water is safe to drink."— Christie Todd Whitman - 9/18/2001
The towers were designed to withstand MULTIPLE airliner impacts.
Mark The FBI, rather than trying to prevent a terrorist attack, was merely gathering intelligence so they would know who to arrest when a terrorist attack occurred.— Robert Wright - Former FBI agent Given the scope of the tragedy from last week, I am glad to reassure the people of New York and Washington, D.C., that their air is safe to breathe and their water is safe to drink."— Christie Todd Whitman - 9/18/2001
The government isn't. Certain criminal elements within are.
Do I hear a fat lady singing?
The NIST/FEMA/SILVESTEIN/ASCE states that the towers fell in around 10 sec. I believe this is false. The towers completed their explosion in around 14 sec. Still WAY too fast for a fire induced gravity, progressive, pancaking collapse.
Mark The FBI, rather than trying to prevent a terrorist attack, was merely gathering intelligence so they would know who to arrest when a terrorist attack occurred.— Robert Wright - Former FBI agent Given the scope of the tragedy from last week, I am glad to reassure the people of New York and Washington, D.C., that their air is safe to breathe and their water is safe to drink."— Christie Todd Whitman - 9/18/2001
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Well most of us are trying to save America from destruction. Most of us see the Bush regime as evil and intent on destroying America; if it is profitable enough to certain corporations and useful to greater Israel.
Believe it or not, even though Casey currently has a big lead he is a weak finisher. He has a history of blowing big leads during the last few days of his campaign. Not only that, he has Diebold to contend with. As of now with all things considered, it's a tough call. He just may squeak it out this time...just maybe.
formerly GJones.
He has run multiple tests on two separate samples of the molten metal with dire and devestating results. Iron, aluminum,sulphur, fluorine, potassium, zinc, manganese, barium and 1,3 diphenylpropane in the dust.
Mark The FBI, rather than trying to prevent a terrorist attack, was merely gathering intelligence so they would know who to arrest when a terrorist attack occurred.— Robert Wright - Former FBI agent Given the scope of the tragedy from last week, I am glad to reassure the people of New York and Washington, D.C., that their air is safe to breathe and their water is safe to drink."— Christie Todd Whitman - 9/18/2001
If you think America did this itself then how dare you not also demand the elimination of America? America is a monsterous nation if you accept she did this to her own people. That is why I openly call for her destruction if this is truth. Why are you types not hunting down and shooting American officials in the street? How can not the logical conclusion of your theory not lead you to this action?
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Hogwash.
Do I hear a fat lady singing?
I can't, he's dead.
formerly GJones.
they failed because they were softened by the fire. Steel turns to wet noodles in fire.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Having certain criminal elements within the government does not indict an entire nation. Go back to Kosovo.
Do I hear a fat lady singing?
The New Phenomenon of Steel Buildings Crushing Themselves http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/collapse.html It is even more interesting that, prior to September 11th, no steel framed building had ever undergone total collapse due to any cause or combination of causes other than controlled demolition and severe earthquakes. Such buildings have survived hurricanes, severe fires, earthquakes, and bombings, but none have fallen down of their own weight -- an event that was portrayed as inevitable on September 11th.
So two 110 story towers turned to wet noodles because of a fire on a couple of floors? lmao
Do I hear a fat lady singing?
You have an engineering degree? The above was written by the following: Thomas W. Eagar, the Thomas Lord Professor of Materials Engineering and Engineering Systems, and Christopher Musso, graduate research student, are at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. For more information, contact T.W. Eagar, MIT, 77 Massachusetts Avenue, Room 4- 136, Cambridge, Massachusetts 02139-4301; (617) 253-3229; fax (617) 252-1773; e- mail tweagar@mit.edu. Maybe they are CIA agents as well?
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
No, it is self righteous bullshit written by a fairy tale believer. None of what he said pertains to WTC construction.
Do I hear a fat lady singing?
Consider the following re hijackers. They were ALREADY trained jet pilots. The "training" here was a cover. And, chances are, they had been trained at USAF facilities as part of the normal training process we conduct with various Arab countries and Pakistan. Literally all their fighter pilots are trained by us. Hence, their connections to Maxwell AFB, the Naval aviation at Pensacola etc. In 2002, the head of the PAF was killed in an "accidental" explosion (denied) and crash (acknowledged). Just as a bye, some looked more like SouthAsian, ie Pakistani than Arab to me. Hence, PAF pilots who underwent a jihadi evangelical moment, and a carefully contrived plot - known to many, and allowed to run for various purposes by intel services, who thinking they were in charge, didn't realize that jihadis had their own plot, running below all the spookdaddies(US, UK, Saudi, Paki etc). Explains some of the coverup since all parties concerned would be too embarrassed to admit what they knew and how they were all fooled. Who's zooming who, baby. 2cents.
Pray you will never know, the hell where youth and laughter go - Siegfried Sassoon. Ypres, Autumn 1914.
Says who? America kills hundreds of thousands of people on that basis alone. I am not from Kosovo (I am not a Serb) - but I will do all I can to liberate Kosovo from American backed Islamic tyranny.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
How did you find this "911 Hitman"?
The mind once expanded by a new idea never returns to its' original size
What would support the upper floors without the said 2 floors? Angels?
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
I've already address this in another thread. Fireproofing is to allow for people to safely evacuate in a safe amount of time from smoke, fire and heat. It has nothing to do with the skyscrapers integrity. Have you read and seen NISTs' live scale floor models tests and video of the twin towers?
Mark The FBI, rather than trying to prevent a terrorist attack, was merely gathering intelligence so they would know who to arrest when a terrorist attack occurred.— Robert Wright - Former FBI agent Given the scope of the tragedy from last week, I am glad to reassure the people of New York and Washington, D.C., that their air is safe to breathe and their water is safe to drink."— Christie Todd Whitman - 9/18/2001
so let me get this straight. You are American? and you advocate complete destruction of America because the US did wrong in Serbia in 1999? Is that correct? and you're not one of those psy-op types?
I was asked to provide proof of my statement that all highrise buildings are designed to fall in on themselves as much as possible - this is done to prevent buildings from falling over in a 'timber' effect. This is something I know since my company provides steel for such buildings. So I found evidence in writting for what I wrote.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
browsing through rense's website As I posted, I make no claims to the author's credibility. But, he does get us thinking about the "how". And now that most of us no longer believe the official story, it's a start. And fits in with the interviews with the surviving tenants who spoke of all the weird work on the internet, the electricity being shut off, etc., prior to 9/11.
We agree on certain things. I'm sure we are on the same page about Operation Gladio.
Mark The FBI, rather than trying to prevent a terrorist attack, was merely gathering intelligence so they would know who to arrest when a terrorist attack occurred.— Robert Wright - Former FBI agent Given the scope of the tragedy from last week, I am glad to reassure the people of New York and Washington, D.C., that their air is safe to breathe and their water is safe to drink."— Christie Todd Whitman - 9/18/2001
Explains some of the coverup since all parties concerned would be too embarrassed to admit what they knew and how they were all fooled. BINGO! You must remember my posts from Freerepublic!
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
lol ! kinda like bbqs and stoves ? i got it now. you're just pulling our legs.
It was a ten second free fall..that's what I saw, that's what you saw..that's what everybody saw...
I thought you got it from a reply I made to Neil 2 days ago.
The mind once expanded by a new idea never returns to its' original size
I'm not surprised you already posted it! You are Mr. Link ;P If I saw your post to Neil, I don't remember it. So what's your opinion about it, despite its unknown author?
It just needs more jet fuel!
I burned my kerosene heater for almost 12 hours on Sat. The 1/32" thick steel above the flame didn't soften one bit.
formerly GJones.
It has nothing to do with the skyscrapers integrity. Do you pull stuff out of your arse? "The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
...but it was that dang diesel fuel that brought down WTC 7. What a shame!
Now that is funny!!!!!
Never in history has fire caused a "primary structual member" to fail and bring down a skyscraper totally. In NISTs' own report, only 14% of the main "primary girders members" had any substantial damage. The engineers, designers and architects have stated that up to 30% of the girders could be severed and the tower would stand and could resist hurricane winds. One could cut girders from one corner horizontally, across the side face and around the other corner.
Mark The FBI, rather than trying to prevent a terrorist attack, was merely gathering intelligence so they would know who to arrest when a terrorist attack occurred.— Robert Wright - Former FBI agent Given the scope of the tragedy from last week, I am glad to reassure the people of New York and Washington, D.C., that their air is safe to breathe and their water is safe to drink."— Christie Todd Whitman - 9/18/2001
No, Nimrod. If one accepts the theory that the USA's ruling elite carried out planned demolitions to make it look like the planes knocked down the towers then America is ruled by evil and thus the only logical end point for such a scenario is that if the people do not end bring these people to justice America can't be allowed to exist and threaten the world. In Kosovo a military defeat of American/NATO forces and their Muslim terrorist allies at the hands of the Serbs would be acceptable to me - but the destruction of the USA for Kosovo would be overkill.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
lol ! kinda like bbqs and stoves ? I wish I would have known that before I wasted all that money on things like oxy- acetylene torches, plasma cutters, and welding equipment, when all I really needed was some kerosene and a match. Boy, do I feel stupid.
You think that after 1945 Germany should not have been allowed to continue to exist?
Katrina was America's Chernobyl.
I think Gladio (or the Italian arm of it) was used to try and kill the last Pope - over the Vatican Bank scandal. The Turk who shot at the Pope was a member of the Grey Wolves - a Gladio Turkish group.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Now you are trolling.
Mark The FBI, rather than trying to prevent a terrorist attack, was merely gathering intelligence so they would know who to arrest when a terrorist attack occurred.— Robert Wright - Former FBI agent Given the scope of the tragedy from last week, I am glad to reassure the people of New York and Washington, D.C., that their air is safe to breathe and their water is safe to drink."— Christie Todd Whitman - 9/18/2001
you still haven't told us your nationality. are you American? I don't believe that real Americans call for the complete destruction of the American nation.
Maybe if that was the case Germany would not have existed in a position to allow NATO to bomb Belgrade on Orthodox Easter.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
From Wikipedia, The most common fuel is a kerosene/paraffin oil-based fuel classified as JET A-1, which is produced to an internationally standardized set of specifications. heh-heh-heh!
formerly GJones.
So you really do believe that support for the Kosovo war is sufficient reason for a nation to cease to exist?
Katrina was America's Chernobyl.
are you American? I don't believe that real Americans call for the complete destruction of the American nation. Yup! Citizen and everything, baby! I di dnot call for the complete destruction of America - unless you guys are right and the Americans carried out 9/11 on themselves - if so why would you want America to continue being such a horrible nation? See, really you tyypes are calling for the destruction of America by claiming America does such evil and such evil nations can't be allowed to exist now can they?
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
The Turk who shot at the Pope was a member of the Grey Wolves - a Gladio Turkish group. A subsidiary of the CIA used to try to eliminate the biggest threat to Soviet power at the time? I wonder what Bill Casey would have thought of that.
Katrina was America's Chernobyl.
How much money do they receive from the feds in contracts or donations?
Mark The FBI, rather than trying to prevent a terrorist attack, was merely gathering intelligence so they would know who to arrest when a terrorist attack occurred.— Robert Wright - Former FBI agent Given the scope of the tragedy from last week, I am glad to reassure the people of New York and Washington, D.C., that their air is safe to breathe and their water is safe to drink."— Christie Todd Whitman - 9/18/2001
It was for Yugoslavia. Zing!
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
The Pope was new to his office and not the threat we assume he was now. And if you read what I wrote carefully I did not say the CIA - I said the Italian Gladio group which the CIA set up - the infamous P2 Lodge which would have wanted the Pope dead to pretect their investments in the Vatican Bank. See, the CIA set up all these Gladio groups but after that they kind of left them alone to operate on their owns - in time they operated outside of their American handler's charge.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Email them and ask.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
you are the only one who is calling for the destruction of America. and you are too disingenuous to take seriously.
The job is not done yet though. If the beams are not treated with fireproofing, they will twist and contort, expand and collapse and thus tear holes into this FIRE-SEPARATION. This demonstrates clearly that FIRESTOPS must PRECEDE spray fireproofing. It also shows that mechanical, electrical and structural penetrants can share openings and should be tested together to ensure bounding. Firestops are the key here. Those beams are too small. This has nothing to do with the WTC 1,2 and 7. The steel in the towers was rated at 6hrs at 2000 degrees. Under the NIST tests, the girders, floor trusses and bolt couplings were subjected to 2 hours at 2000 degrees WITHOUT fireproofing, and when the tests were done, the girders, trusses and couplings were unaffected and dead straight.
Mark The FBI, rather than trying to prevent a terrorist attack, was merely gathering intelligence so they would know who to arrest when a terrorist attack occurred.— Robert Wright - Former FBI agent Given the scope of the tragedy from last week, I am glad to reassure the people of New York and Washington, D.C., that their air is safe to breathe and their water is safe to drink."— Christie Todd Whitman - 9/18/2001
Steel is flammable, everything is flammable if the 3 necessary ingredients are present in the proper percentages. They are heat/ignition, fuel, and oxygen. Sometimes the proper percentages occur accidentally or without a concious effort. Grain elevators would be one example. Google "chemistry of fire steel" and see about steel burning. Whether the WTC collapsed from planted charges or a fire fueled by jetfuel is immaterial to the fact steel is flammable.
Powdered grain in an aerosol form is explosive, just as Gasoline is. You are really reaching here, and no wonder. There was zero flammable present that day in sufficient quantities with enough oxygen and contact with the steel in a prolonged way to cause these buildings to collapse.
I agree here also. It is going to come down to this eventually.
Mark The FBI, rather than trying to prevent a terrorist attack, was merely gathering intelligence so they would know who to arrest when a terrorist attack occurred.— Robert Wright - Former FBI agent Given the scope of the tragedy from last week, I am glad to reassure the people of New York and Washington, D.C., that their air is safe to breathe and their water is safe to drink."— Christie Todd Whitman - 9/18/2001
Not reaching a bit. A study of Chemistry of fire has many facts that might seem to be a reach.
Sure steel is. It takes 2800 degrees of CONTINUIOUS fire/heat to start the process. Then it has to stay at that temp fueled by O2 and other ingredients. How do you explain the evaporated steel? it takes 5000 degrees. Convential Office fires and jet/diesel fuel cannot perform this magical feat.
Mark The FBI, rather than trying to prevent a terrorist attack, was merely gathering intelligence so they would know who to arrest when a terrorist attack occurred.— Robert Wright - Former FBI agent Given the scope of the tragedy from last week, I am glad to reassure the people of New York and Washington, D.C., that their air is safe to breathe and their water is safe to drink."— Christie Todd Whitman - 9/18/2001
Damn straight you're a shill. If you call for the elimination of America, you're a traitor as well. The penalty for treason is death. Keep it in mind.
The same people calling for the elimination of America.
You act as if the two floor just got pulled out from under the tops of the towers. lol
Do I hear a fat lady singing?
I had to take classes in fire behavior, weather, and many other things to be certified as a Single Resource Twenty Man Wild land Fire crew, Pubie. And I played with things others never get to deal with in my time in the Army. I was a slow, reluctant convert to the obvious notion that the government and the building's owners did this profoundly mutually beneficial crime in taking down the towers. One does not like to believe something this horrible, but I have made the leap of faith concerning who did these crimes and why, and I have a deep and abiding hunger to see those guilty hung for this. And we are going to expose this and make Bush our bitch for what he did, and there is nothing you or any other apologist for these crimes can do about it. Too much is known that condemns the guilty, and they are running sheerly on the momentum of the original lies told us concerning 9-11.
Every -CH2 unit in a hydrocarbon paraffin adds another 30 kJ/mol (kilojoule per mole) to its enthalpy (heat) value and 14g (gram) to its molar mass. For kerosene (jet fuel) with some 130g per mole giving some 8 mol per kilogram (or litre) of fuel it would be some 270 kJ/mole. Thus the enthalpy of jet fuel would be some 2 MJ/kg (mega joule per kilogram). Assuming an air liner to carry some 100 000 kg of fuel would mean 200 GJ (giga joule or billion joule) of energy, about a fiftieth of the nuclear bomb dropped on Hiroshima. When most of this heat is confined to two levels of the WTC tower it would raise the temperature of each level above 1000 C (degrees centigrade)! At 1000 C concrete explodes by flake upon flake from its heated surface into dust. At 1000 C all glass becomes melted. At 1000C iron burns as easily as wood. All organic material, including flesh, just vaporises in a burning flash. And that is why I think the airliners brought the buildings down.
Somewhere online is a demonstration of what supposedly happened when the floor trusses gave out. They show a wooden model with 3 floors and pile a bunch of weight on top of it. It holds just fine. Then then have a similar model with the midle floor removed and they begin to pile up the same amount of weight on it. It doesn't hold it. Guess what happens? This was from a structural engineer who is trying to support your (and the official) fairy tale.
Do I hear a fat lady singing?
Bwahahahahaaaa. This must be Kudzu from LF.
You make it sound so dramatic, but what is the flame speed of a nuke vs the flame speed of kerosene? What we do know from video evidence is that most of it was confined to the entire world, since it burned off outside the towers.
Do I hear a fat lady singing?
In Dante's vision of Hell, level 9 was the worst and was reserved for traitors only.
formerly GJones.
I thought he was Bill O'Really. :-D
formerly GJones.
There is absolutely zero scientific proof of 2000 degree fires in the twin towers. FEMA/NIST tests show the majority of girders exposed to 480 heat. Barely enough to melt paint. Both airliners had 10,000 gals of fuel. There were no windows melting or shattering from fire or heat. Up to 70% of the jet fuel was expelled outside. The rest was burned off in minutes.
Mark The FBI, rather than trying to prevent a terrorist attack, was merely gathering intelligence so they would know who to arrest when a terrorist attack occurred.— Robert Wright - Former FBI agent Given the scope of the tragedy from last week, I am glad to reassure the people of New York and Washington, D.C., that their air is safe to breathe and their water is safe to drink."— Christie Todd Whitman - 9/18/2001
And fuel spilled aloft did not fracture the very strong 'bathtub' of concrete sunk deep in the Earth to keep the river at bay, nor blew out the basement or the ground floors. There is too much that is inexplicable using the kerosene explanation. The crashes provided the confusion and cover to take down these white elephants of buildings to change the public outlook to make it more excepting of NeoCon war plans and the gutting of our rights.
The real NIST floor model test reports and video are amazing. In another live test, they loaded barrels of water and other structure loads to try and make the trusses fail and bow inwards. Never happened.
Mark The FBI, rather than trying to prevent a terrorist attack, was merely gathering intelligence so they would know who to arrest when a terrorist attack occurred.— Robert Wright - Former FBI agent Given the scope of the tragedy from last week, I am glad to reassure the people of New York and Washington, D.C., that their air is safe to breathe and their water is safe to drink."— Christie Todd Whitman - 9/18/2001
In the model to which I was referring, the weight load caused the wood model to tip to one side, sheding the weights off to that side. It was not a straight down collapse. Once the weight was shed, the model righted itself. They used this to demonstrate how the WTC towers fell straight down. LMAO! So much for experts, huh?
Do I hear a fat lady singing?
I saw this video on google just now, looking for the wooden model: Do I hear a fat lady singing?
There is nothing wrong with your speculation and your theory. I happen to believe your theory and that the towers were demolished with charges. They are not mutually exclusive. And I don't think there is much moral difference between the government backing the 9/11 terrorists and turning a blind eye to their attacks on this country and setting charges in the WTC. They are both the same in my opinion. I think the charges were more than likely backups. I imagine the planners hoped the planes would do more damage and cause a collapse or partial collapses with huge chunks of the building flying into others and causing thousands of deaths. But- when it became apparrent to the conspirators that the Towers were not that damaged (as they were monitoring all emergency communications from WTC seven I imagine) they "pulled" the towers. They needed spectacular attacks- a smoking crater- thousands of deaths- a searing image. Two towers with holes in them that could be repaired or just demolished slowly with 800 people killed? Uh uh. That is a bad train accident in India- not a rallying cry to start a never ending war. They needed an event. They got it with the towers coming down- and from what I have read I believe they came down with charges. Now, were your Moslems used? More than likely.
It happens routinely. You don't know what you are talking about.
God is always good! Your posting history would only tend to expose you as an agent. WTC7, wake up dude! People on this site are not as dense as the PM readers are.
God is always good! Only a moron would say such a thing. You have been exposed moron!
God is always good! There was no one to pull CIA dimwit. No firefighters were in there.
God is always good! 911 Mysteries: Demolitions demonstrated that so well.
It was a ten second free fall..that's what I saw, that's what you saw..that's what everybody saw...
They flew? Did they sprout wings and fly? Unfreakinbelieveable!
God is always good! It's amazing how many people don't read the whole article before replying.
God is always good! Mountains? 84% know the government is lying, we are not exactly hiding. When are YOU planning on heading to the mountains?
God is always good! Yertle, no offence, but you are an idiot.
God is always good! Me and good ole General Lee. As long as America supports the al-Qaeda Muslims in the Balkans I support the Christians against America. I remember the Easter Day bombing of Belgrade and that I can't forgive. By the way talk about karma - Muslims from the Bosnian army supplied with help from the USA carried out 9/11 - how sweet indeed.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Kudzu is an American who works for the Saudis. I support Serbs who kill such Saudi-American Muslims in the Balkans.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
In Dante's vision of Hell, level 9 was the worst and was reserved for traitors only. General Lee is in hell? Sign me up. So let me get this straight you think America's leadership carried out 9/11 and are still loyal to said nation? Just who is going to hell here and who deserves death? If you guys were not getting my meaning - here it is - if I accept that America's leadership carried out 9/11 then there IS NO ALTERNATIVE but to seek the ending of America. You are convinced America did it and you do nothing to remove such criminals? What kind of cowardly savages are you?
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Maybe for Serbia.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Thanks for the clarification...you must have overlapping talking points regarding the wet noodle steel.
you're having quite a lot of fun today. but everyone can see that the leaders of our country do not represent our country. Just because evil exists here and criminal acts occur here does not mean that our nation is any more evil than another nation. Criminal acts occur around the world. The United States is different from the American nation. the clique that rules us did not spring from among us. All of these things are now obvious to the casual observer. The democracy ideology that somehow 'we the people' rule is a ridiculous ideology. If your words are to be taken seriously, then I guess you'd do the right thing and kill yourself because evil came from our nation and you are of our nation. maybe our forum would be better off if that were to happen. but I do not advocate it.
Heh! Soon as the Serbs attack the Americans and wipe them all out. God willing. If you guys were not getting my tongue in cheek meaning - here it is - if I accept that America's leadership carried out the demolition part of 9/11 then there IS NO ALTERNATIVE but to seek the ending of America. You are convinced America did 9/11 and you do nothing to remove such criminals? What kind of cowardly savages are you? How can I not pray Putin sends in a few Spetsnaz to end this charade of a nation if I accept America carried out a planned demolition of 9/11.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Senior Military, Intelligence, and Government Officials Question 9/11 Commission Report .
Katrina was America's Chernobyl.
Did you not finish logic in college? Let me help: ...if I accept that America's leadership carried out 9/11 then there IS NO ALTERNATIVE but to seek the ending of America's leadership. Can you grasp the difference?
Yea, but I am a traitor in waiting and thus redeemed. but everyone can see that the leaders of our country do not represent our country. That did not stop America from killing children in hospitals or innocent bystanders on bridges in Serbia. You must understand I WOULD LOVE TO EMBRACE the demolition theory of 9/11 because I could then use that in my arsenal agains Uncle Son of Sam - but I can't - I see it as a honey trap - the kind I read about when I studied this sort of thing in school - an appealing but distracting conspiracy theory that sucks away credibility and resources from the real deal.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Can you grasp the difference? Correct, but the American people allow such leadership - empower it and do nothing against it thus from their diseased body such leadership arises and thus that body need be cut up to prevent such cancer from growing a new head. Agree or disagree?
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
how about making the distinction between ending the treasonous corrupt american government, which has become the enemy of we-the-people, rather than America?
It was a ten second free fall..that's what I saw, that's what you saw..that's what everybody saw...
I can't believe the low quality crap the CIA is paying for these days. I guess it beats a job at McDonald's huh? The free fall rate in vacuum close to the Earth's surface is on average exactly: 9.81 m/s^2 Both buildings, WTC1 and WTC2, are recorded by seismographs as falling in about 10 seconds. That is almost the same speed (given the height of the buildings it would have taken them approximately 9.2 seconds to completely fall in a vacuum) they would fall if NOTHING, including air molecules, were impeding their fall. But they had the rest of the building impeding its fall, which would have greatly increased the length of time for the buildings to fall. The pancake theory is a joke. Even if somehow one floor fell all at once to the floor beneath it and started a domino effect where all the floors collapsed the 47, I repeat 47, core steel columns that held up the entire weight of the building and were over engineered to handle much more weight than that, would not have collapsed. The floors falling alone could not have caused these 47 core steel columns to fail. And if you watch the North Tower fall you can see the antenna on top of the North Tower begin to fall first. Why is this significant? Because it was built directly on top of the core. It could not have fallen first unless the core was taken out first. I suggest you give up your shill efforts at this forum. No one here will respond to your silliness for too long and you will be exposed for the crackpot government theory nut you are.
God is always good! This is actually a very logical question. I haven't shot one of these scumbags b/c I'm a decent human being, much more willing to love than hate. Americans for the most part are like me, I suspect. Now should someone else - unknown to me - make one of these POS a piece of swiss cheese, such is life :)
yes, this is true and, imo, we are in much need of a second revolution. good luck though. i don't see enough of us who aren't dependent on this treasonous corrupt government to want an end to it.
It was a ten second free fall..that's what I saw, that's what you saw..that's what everybody saw...
That is difficult to believe, Destro, when you refuse to look at videos which will prove it and instead make outrageous statements such as, "they failed because they were softened by the fire. Steel turns to wet noodles in fire." It was a ten second free fall..that's what I saw, that's what you saw..that's what everybody saw...
Hell, I am ready to do that right now for what America did in Bosnia and Kosovo. Yet you haven't done it. What are you, a coward?
God is always good! great link, thanks.
You don't understand 19th century politics do you? You don't understand that prior to the civil war the state in which a person resided was considered their country. Lee hated slavery and he hated the fact that the south wanted to secede from the union but, his state(country)came first. Now you've definitely exposed yourself as a 'big government' shill.
formerly GJones.
That is why I have wasted no time on this thread. Been there, done that, enough said. ;0)
“The tendency of democracies is, in all things, to mediocrity, since the tastes, knowledge, and principles of the majority form the tribunal of appeal.” James Fenimore Cooper
When? If you buy this scenario that the US govt is so evil when will you remove them?
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
I will tell you in private.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
It is called the Socratic method of debate. It takes a while to score but it works.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
oh, if i could be God for just one day.
It was a ten second free fall..that's what I saw, that's what you saw..that's what everybody saw...
I know Americans are piss poor when it comes to history, geography and current events. There is no warfare going on in Kosovo at the moment. And I am not a Serb so it would not be my place. In the last war the pre-neoconned Republican congress voted against Clinton's request for support of the war. This means that as an American I could be against the war through political means.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Now you've definitely exposed yourself as a 'big government' shill. LOL! Because I admire General Lee and how he killed tens of thousands of Americans? Or is it because I question you loony tune theories? I already said the US laedership is implicated in 9/11 somehow - I discount the demolition theory because I was there in my office on 9/11 and saw the events with my own eyes.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Don't twist it around. You know what I mean. Besides the slavery issue what was another reason the south seceded? To prevent an omni-present centralized government which is exactly what happened.
formerly GJones.
and I support this how?
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
There you go...twisting it around again. You know damn well what I'm inferring.
formerly GJones.
Now you've definitely exposed yourself as a 'big government' shill You called me a 'big government' shill - how so?
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
For some reason I have almost no interest in 9/11, and have not read up on all the theories, though I am vaguely aware of them. All I can say is that just from hearing the news as events unfurled, the facts of the government's story did not add up to me, and I mean starting right from the day it happened. Regarding this controlled demo business though; as I recall, the aim of the '93 truck bomb in the basement of the Trade Center was to topple the towers. It seems to me that after that failed attempt it would make sense that the city government, owners of surrounding buildings, insurance companies and other interested parties could see some advantage to having demolitions preinstalled in the towers just in case another attack mortally wounded the buildings. In such a scenario the buildings could be preemptively destroyed in a controlled fashion thus minimizing the damage to the surrounding buildings. If such safety precautions did exist then the fall of the towers could have been government ordained and executed prematurely through a combination of panic and faulty damage assessment - or maliciously by this administration for a big, splashy "Pearl Harbor" effect. I personally lean towards the later explanation as being most likely but then again, I haven't followed things closely so maybe I'm missing some important "facts." But considering the history of this country's government, and the temperament of the neocons, their publicly stated policy goals, and circumstantial evidence, I have to suspect malfeasance first and foremost.
Well said. WTC 7 bothers me, as do other problems with the official line, but the 9/11 conspiracy theorists have proven only that certain questions are unanswered, not that the facts necessarily point towards the Reichstag.
hi u, just watch this---->911 Mysteries: Demolitions. you won't regret it.
It was a ten second free fall..that's what I saw, that's what you saw..that's what everybody saw...
No kidding, it speaks to motive.
this is good too
The mind once expanded by a new idea never returns to its' original size
the uneducated in america have been brainwashed the educated have now figured it out it's a race to the finish line.
perhaps it would be cause to fly the flag again?
Proven...yes that is a problem without evidence, isn't it? Yet the truthers have proven that the official explanation is mostly impossible. That puts the ball back in the court of the pigs and they ain't scoring any points.
2 things square it away for me. The collapse of the 2 towers severely weakened the building - coupled with the fact Giuliani in a bone headed move built into the WTC7 his command bunker high up - the only known sky high bunker ever - and installed diesel fuel storage tanks - several thousand gallons - this caught on fire as the flaming debris fell into WTC7. That is why WTC7 collapsed hours later.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Could you expound on what is the "real deal?"
“The tendency of democracies is, in all things, to mediocrity, since the tastes, knowledge, and principles of the majority form the tribunal of appeal.” James Fenimore Cooper
That is why WTC7 collapsed hours later. And if you really believe that is what lead to the collapse of WTC 7 then you indeed win the booby prize for swallowing such a bone headed theory yourself. :0)
“The tendency of democracies is, in all things, to mediocrity, since the tastes, knowledge, and principles of the majority form the tribunal of appeal.” James Fenimore Cooper
An aspect of the conspiracy is to hide the fact that these 9/11 Muslims had ties with our intel orgs. Now did our pet Muslims - used by the USA via proxies to fight the Russians and Serbs and Chinese and Indians - go rogue and double cross us? Or were they doing what elements within our power structure wanted? Maybe a little of both? That is the question - not how the buildings fell down - which is self evident and in fact meaningless because our govt is implicated one way or another.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Many of us are aware of this. Or were they doing what elements within our power structure wanted? And Richard Perle was all gung-ho about sending the Mujahideen trained in Afghanistan and Pakistan to fight for the Bosnians and the Albanians (in Kosovo). Rogue? That is what the neocons are. The neocons have wormed their way into the power structure for the last 30 years. Maybe, just maybe, this is all connected back to the covert operations started by Bush the Elder with the Iran Contra deals. In that case, it is the Bush Crime Family which is behind this, and the neocons have grasped the levers of power and propelled themselves into position to control the mightiest military in the world. But the Bush's and their cohorts in crime are only water bearers for the real power behind the scenes, the international bankers. The Bush Crime Family is allowed to grab as much loot as they are able, as long as they keep in line with the program supplied by their ultimate controllers. There is no profit in peace. It is hardly meaningless when another Pearl Harbor-type event is perpetrated which propels this nation into a scenario of perpetual war. This, in fact, is just what has been called for in the PNAC documents, which ties it all back to the Zionist regime.
“The tendency of democracies is, in all things, to mediocrity, since the tastes, knowledge, and principles of the majority form the tribunal of appeal.” James Fenimore Cooper
Damn, I hate when that happens! Good post. Daniel Hopsicker on MadCow has done some good investigation into the arabs involved in 9/11. OBL and Saddam were on the CIA payroll at one time. We instigated the war between Iran/Iraq, and plenty others. A lot of "population control" is going on in Iraq at the moment; Prince Philip must be so pleased, he didn't even have to be reincarnated as a royal virus.
Good summary.
Building on what I posted earlier . . . Commonly you hear people expressing the sentiment that "our government" couldn't do such evil. How would it be possible to even start planning for such an act- wouldn't the very evil nature of it repel anyone remotely involved in it? In order for something like 9/11 to be pulled off there would have to exist a culture already in place with people who would think nothing of murdering innocents. And that is a good question. And if this was the US government circa 1901 I would say such a conspiracy would be completely and totally impossible. The infrastructure of evil simply didn't exist in this country in 1901 for such an truly evil false flag op like 9/11 to be pulled off. But America circa 2001? Yes. You hear about how 9/11 was "blowback" because of US foreign policy- how pissed off Moooslims finally paid us back for 50 years of corrupt foreign policy in their part of the world. And that is quite believable. But I happen to think it is another sort of blowback. It is the blowback of the CULTURE of empire that has been bred within our government for a 100 years. This is a culture that exists on its own, quite outside the rest of the country- that has its own rules, mores, and ways of doing things. 9/11 was merely the habits of empire coming home to roost. Prior to 9/11 we had a government that was engaging in false flag operations as a matter of routine tactics in every corner of the globe. The OSS of WWII which later became the CIA had pulled off one of their first foreign engineered coups by 1953 in Iran by literally spreading around money to street thugs in Iran and installing the Shah. And the list of dubious operations only gets more suspect and more morally outrageous with the passage of time. Two, even three generations of intelligence ops all over the world involving assassinations, engineered coups, rigged elections, the funding of wholly artificial "Guerilla movements", Death squad training manuals . . . aiding governments with Death lists (Indonesia and 100,000 'communists' being killed in a week by Suharto is the best known example). Now with that history, a history our media and text books don't dwell upon, known you are going to tell me that elements of the US Federal government are not amoral enough to do something like 9/11? Please. When you have literally thousands of people from many branches of government involved up to their eyeballs in the evil of running a de facto empire day in and day out for 50 years- with the habits only getting worse with time- and the participants more and more cynical and nihilistic- eventually the tactics employed by the empire to keep the Dirt people in line in the distant provinces are going to be used at home. It was only a matter of time. You can't keep the "necessary evil" that our "intelligence services" practice abroad from crossing the borders and being used here at home. Empires corrupt Republics. When you have intelligence services monitoring foreign politicians and getting blackmail info on them- they will eventually do the same at home. When you have them engineering "plane accidents" for troublesome foreigners- they will do so at home. You can't keep this evil of Empire contained in a little box. The culture for brainstorming and planning something like 9/11 did and does exist in our government. When you have people whose job it is to carry out outrageous muderous acts all over the globe and under the cover of darkness- most of which we still don't know about- such a suggestion or plan among them might have raised eyebrows because it was a plan directed against "Americans" and risky- but the "morality" of it would never have even come up among such people. This is what they do. 9/11 is blowback alright. It is blowback from our own shadow government that the rest of the world knows only too damn well.
So where's the chink in the armor...the achilles heel?
When you have people whose job it is to carry out outrageous muderous acts all over the globe and under the cover of darkness- most of which we still don't know about- such a suggestion or plan among them might have raised eyebrows because it was a plan directed against "Americans" and risky- but the "morality" of it would never have even come up among such people. This is what they do. Excellent post.
Prior to 9/11 we had a government that was engaging in false flag operations as a matter of routine tactics in every corner of the globe. agreed. excellent post again !
It was a ten second free fall..that's what I saw, that's what you saw..that's what everybody saw...
The "Achilles heel" is that this isn't 1963. It is 2006 and the truth cannot be contained nearly as easily. But on the other hand we are a very different people from 1963 as well . . . we have been corrupted just as much as our shadow government. We are more stupid, more selfish, more atomized, and more dependent on government than we were in 1963. So . . . I don't know if there is one.
How the buildings fell is a bit of a distraction. In my view it is topping on the ice cream sunday. A far better avenue of approach is indeed the documented connections of the so called 9/11 hijackers to Pakistani intelligence. When you have the 9/11 commission basically saying that who paid them- who financed them- is "of no consequence" when the trail clearly leads back to Pakistan and their intelligence chief (and Pakistanni intelligence is a creature of the CIA itself) then something is up. We have known "knowns" so to speak with the hijackers and who paid them. We don't have such "knowns" when it comes to the buildings falling. Concentrating on the hijackers, who knew what when about them, who paid them . . . to me- is more interesting than why the buildings fell. But on another level- I think a lot of the 9/11 truth movement has been concentrating on why the buildings fell because it is the THE IMAGE in the brains of Americans and what they associate 9/11 with- and the official line on those collapses is just so pathetic and improbable and frankly impossible.
Maybe the hope is that "we" are different people today than in 1963 because we are more stupid, more selfish,etc. Empires require a strong military to maintain status quo and I think this empire is straining its military to the n'th degree. I don't think the American hyphenated we's coming up the pipeline have any sense of patriotism or any sense of loyalty to this nation and they certainly will not take to conscription too well. So what options do the DC empire builders have - they are too greedy to pay mercenary wages to the GI's - I think we will see the empire implode when they run out of volunteer cannon fodder and if DC legalizes the 20-30 Million Hispanic aliens as both parties are wont to do - I think that's the achilles heel - a sudden infusion of hyphenated Americans who loathe the white gringo and who will not do his bidding.
bluedogtxn called today's military the JOB CORPS.
The buildings were demolitioned by the govt is as a honey trap - an appealing but distracting conspiracy theory that sucks away credibility and resources from truth finders and inquisitive people out for the real deal. The images is exactly why the buildings were dynamited makes an appealing honey trap - it is something tangible - to distract from the intangible - The 'Great Game' America has been playing into Central Asia from Bosnia all the way to 'Stans. In fact I remember an article posted on a neocon right wing website blamed the rise of al-Qaeda and Islamic jihadis on the Soviets!! That is classic disinfo- distraction techniques being used by the neocons. (Read this bull here). This should send red flags up to most but they are too busy looking for squibb like explosions in grainy videos to notice. The USA has been arming and training jihadis for 20 years via CIA contracting out Saudi and Paki intel orgs who in turn sub-contracted out to jihad groups like al-Qaeda. Goal? To spread destabilization through Islamic uprisings that would allow UAS/NATO to swoop in and restore peace and a puppet democracy along the so called Green Road - From Bosnia to Afghanistan to Indonesia where oil and gas fields are and where pipelines come out from. I think Osama read the American play book and liked the plan and made it his own. That is why in some areas al-Qaeda and America seemed at odds ('Stans) and in other areas seemed like allies (Balkans - Chechnya). Burke said the 9/11 commish did not want to delve into the Pakistani connection. Why? Because that leads back to Washington and Texas. The 9/11 cell was here as were dozens of other such Muslims for American approved training and fundraising and organizing for the jihad abroad. That is what they want to keep secret. Maybe the 9/11 cell double-crossed their American allies? Maybe they were in league (maybe without even knowing it) with America's shadow govt players on 9/11? That is where we need to look - not trying to see if implanted explosives did this or that - or turn 9/11 into a laughable real estate insurance plot by Silverstein - which is where 'they' want you to concentrate your resources and thoughts on.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
PS: An apology for my style (meaning apology in the Greek sense as a word meaning 'explanation'). I am using an old debate style and rhetorical technique - the Socratic method. It antagonizes people at first but then leaves them open to what will be said after they exhaust themselves on their counter arguments. Which is probably why the Athenians made him drink the hemlock.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Russia, India, China.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
robin: bluedogtxn called today's military the JOB CORPS The Empire builders are unwilling to part with a nickel that does not go into their personal "purses." As a result JOB CORPS is not keeping up with wages commenserate with the "risks" of the current job openings. The empire builders' lame carrots -ie. sign up bonuses of $10,000 - will not be enough as more vets return stateside from the killing fields of Iraq sans limbs, sans working brains and as these vets get a media profile. Without an expanded grunt filled military, American empire will come to a screeching halt, if DC plans extending the war front. For too many years, fedgov has filled the ranks with affirmative action gender equal pencil pushing "career" soldiers, so the US military may look like it's got lots of warm bodies for the front lines, but that's not the case. North Korea, Iran, heck even Israel have more military warm bodies to fight as grunts for their nations than we do.
It antagonizes people at first but then leaves them open to what will be said after they exhaust themselves on their counter arguments Let's hear more about this debate technique please. Perhaps start a new thread. Thank you kindly in advance.. Yours, Lady X
The start was the American defeat in the Spanish-American War. That was the beginning of the empire.
“The tendency of democracies is, in all things, to mediocrity, since the tastes, knowledge, and principles of the majority form the tribunal of appeal.” James Fenimore Cooper
We shall start by asking if you saw my application of the Socratic method work on this thread? I kind of get a kick out of being disagreed with and then a little later on those that disagree with me actually agree with me (if only grudgingly).
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
You meant American victory I am sure.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Wrong - chunks of the collapsed towers flew into WTC7. The Oklahoma City bombing was more damaging to the building and it never fell.... furthermore, the a-bomb dome (made of steel and glass) in Hiroshima, Japan was exposed to thousands of degrees of (nuclear) heat and never crumbled.....
-- "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed people can change the world. Indeed it is the only thing that ever has." - Margaret Mead
Devil's Game: How the United States Helped Unleash Fundamentalist Islam (American Empire Project) (Hardcover) by Robert Dreyfuss "THERE IS AN unwritten chapter in the history of the Cold War and the New World Order that followed..." (more)
Pray you will never know, the hell where youth and laughter go - Siegfried Sassoon. Ypres, Autumn 1914.
And trees in Tunguska, Siberia that were under the exploding comet in 1903 stayed upright while the trees outward from the air blast were flattened. Pressure down is different from pressure sideways. Physics lesson 101. WTC7 Is just across the street from the Towers. The collapse tore a gash in its side. The diesel tanks for the mayor's emergency command ignited. The building was already a total loss - it fell what was it 12 or so hours later? - so you people who claim he had to pull it down for the insurance money are talking out your holes - the building was already a total loss in that condition.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Nope, not at all. The supposed victory was really the death of the Republic since we took over Spain's colonies, and their headaches of the remainder of their empire. It was a tactical defeat for the U.S. We've been doing the same thing ever since, and all at the behest of free traders and corporate dominance.
“The tendency of democracies is, in all things, to mediocrity, since the tastes, knowledge, and principles of the majority form the tribunal of appeal.” James Fenimore Cooper
Still peddling this bullcrap about WTC 7, I see. Got any pics that show the damage you claim? I've never seen any. Diesel fuel will not burn down a steel structure, or haven't you figured that out? http://www.wtc7.net/location.html People who have heard of Building 7 tend to assume that 'ancillary damage' from the collapses of the Twin Towers had something to do with Building 7's collapse. It is important to note that Building 7 was no closer to the towers than any of several other large buildings outside of the WTC complex. Building 7 was the only of the seven buildings with a World Trade Center address that was on a different block. It, along with the 6 other buildings, were completely or largely destroyed on September 11th. No buildings outside of the two turquoise zones in the map to the right suffered more than superficial damage. “The tendency of democracies is, in all things, to mediocrity, since the tastes, knowledge, and principles of the majority form the tribunal of appeal.” James Fenimore Cooper
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
It sure is, nothing but a smoke and dust cloud. Where is the structural damage? LOL
“The tendency of democracies is, in all things, to mediocrity, since the tastes, knowledge, and principles of the majority form the tribunal of appeal.” James Fenimore Cooper
See, that was a set up by me of you - lets me post another photo further debunking you. "The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Riiight. You're here to discuss the truth of the matter.
Oh, yeah, nice charade. That don't mean diddly. Furthermore, it in no way explains the classic demolition collapse of WTC 7. That damage on one corner of the building would never in a million years cause that building to collapse. And you are dreaming if you think you can convince anyone of this on here. Posting this kind of nonsense will only serve for you to get the richly deserved moniker of DISINFORMATIONIST.
“The tendency of democracies is, in all things, to mediocrity, since the tastes, knowledge, and principles of the majority form the tribunal of appeal.” James Fenimore Cooper
You are a demolition's expert? What is your expertise in the manner or are you repeating what websites tell you? Also, you asked me for proof of my statement that there was a large gash in the side of the WTC7 building from the falling debris - so I provided 2 of them. That you did not know there was such a gash speaks volumes on your knowledge (or lack there of) on the condition of the WTC 7 building.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
I did not see it..
I was asked for proof of my statement that there was a large gash in the side of the WTC7 building from the falling debris - so I provided 2 of them. That is all.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
The prosecution of Socrates was not without point.
You dare make such a statement when at first you questioned my assertion that there ever existed such a huge structural gash to begin with???? Does that even classify as logical reasoning? Science and reason don't work like that.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Socrates was a prick who liked to point out that his fellow Athenians were being assholes. (Copyright to Destro)
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
That hardly qualifies as sufficient damage to cause the building to collapse. Your attempts at making that damage so disproportionate are clearly disinformation. From your perspective, stretching the truth qualifies as such. Since you have failed to show any science and only allude to these things, yes it does, but not for those on BOZO. C'ya! ;0)
“The tendency of democracies is, in all things, to mediocrity, since the tastes, knowledge, and principles of the majority form the tribunal of appeal.” James Fenimore Cooper
A gash starting from the 18th floor all the way down does not qualify how? What scientific methods have you used to make that 'qualifying' statement? Click the pictures above to a link where at least they provide their evidence in a quantifiable manner - not relying on qualitative evidence.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Sure - info vs disinfo - suddenly they are my talking points. I posted a picture. A picture of the gash from the WTC 7. Why did I provide such picture? Because BTP Holdings dared me to present any evidence that the WTC 7 had such a gash. We can end the back and forth on this and see if we can come to an understanding - ignoring if that gash helped bring down the WTC 7 - do you accept a huge gash existed in the WTC 7 as a result from the debris free fall of the Twin Towers?
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
the trail clearly leads back to Pakistan and their intelligence chief Yes. Imagine, just imagine, if the Head of Iraki Intelligence had been caught with such evidence and cuplability. We'd have the results of his colonoscopy posted. But, in this case, virtual silence.
Pray you will never know, the hell where youth and laughter go - Siegfried Sassoon. Ypres, Autumn 1914.
Because you have the people who would want an expose chasing down video clips to see if there are squibb explosions going on....
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
absolutely not
Really? Where'd you have it posted? Forums...blogs? The virtual silence is coming through loud and clear. MSM is owned.
In the same places where Judith Miller wrote her exposes. As part of the push to convince the people that Iraq was behind 911.
Pray you will never know, the hell where youth and laughter go - Siegfried Sassoon. Ypres, Autumn 1914.
do you accept a huge gash existed in the WTC 7 before it collapsed?
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Jeez, for someone who purports to want to discuss exactly who the perpetrators of 911 are at the exclusion of all else, you sure spend a lots of bandwidth refuting the WTC7 demolition.
Did WTC7 tip or lean to the side with the gash? No, it fell exactly like a demolition, complete with squibs, falling into its own footprint. A classic demolition.
It fell towards the gash - see the photo that shows the WTC 7 north face covering the debris pile - not possible if it fell straight down. "The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
The Yugoslav Caldron “The CIA recruited and trained the jihadists”
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
your photo shows that it fell straight down. it was a 47 story building.
If you are delusional it does. I guess the facade just floated down ontop of the debris pile then.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
This poster is a mole.
Mark The FBI, rather than trying to prevent a terrorist attack, was merely gathering intelligence so they would know who to arrest when a terrorist attack occurred.— Robert Wright - Former FBI agent Given the scope of the tragedy from last week, I am glad to reassure the people of New York and Washington, D.C., that their air is safe to breathe and their water is safe to drink."— Christie Todd Whitman - 9/18/2001
There are many excellent videos with newsreel footage of the entire collapse that show how it fell at the rate of free fall (only possible in a demolition). You show a fuzzy, unclear picture and call that evidence? NO! That's NOTHING next to all the evidence. The squibs, the sounds of explosions before the fall, the way it fell, the speed of the fall, the testimony of firefighters, Larry Silverstein himself saying "to pull it". 9-11 video THE INEXPLICABLE COLLAPSE OF WTC7 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5848378758602000405&q=WTC7&hl=en http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5878047211466071205&q=WTC7&hl=en Rick Siegel's camera footage on 9/11 from Hoboken and Frank Sinatra Piers
And at what speed should it have fallen? Or do you guys think it should have fallen in dramatic slow motion like in a Hollywood movie? Also, your logic on the WTC7 conspiracy is faulty. You guys claim it was brought down for the insurance money. It collapsed like 9-12 or so hours later after the attacks so it could not have been done to shock people - but for the insurance money. There were massive gashes and fires that damaged the building to such an extent that there is no question the building was at a loss - and the insurance money was already in the bank - so no need to bring it down.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Your mother.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
THE ONLY WAY A BUILDING FALLS AT THE RATE OF "FREE FALL" IS IN A CONTROLLED DEMOLITION. The Laws of physics cannot be denied (except by people like you).
The Laws of physics cannot be denied (except by people like you). All things fall in a state of free fall. See, I passed my physics class.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
When nothing is underneath to block a fall that's exactly how they fall. That is what the explosives are for in a demolition, to knock out the floors beneath the fall at just the right time. 47 story steel-framed buildings do not fall at the rate of free fall w/o carefully implemented explosives.
Do yourself a favor and move on. This poster is a mole.
Mark The FBI, rather than trying to prevent a terrorist attack, was merely gathering intelligence so they would know who to arrest when a terrorist attack occurred.— Robert Wright - Former FBI agent Given the scope of the tragedy from last week, I am glad to reassure the people of New York and Washington, D.C., that their air is safe to breathe and their water is safe to drink."— Christie Todd Whitman - 9/18/2001
But they do if you have a multi story gash in the building taking out support columns and a 16K gallon diesel tanks ignited inside.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Do yourself a favor, watch the videos. The building falls straight down at the rate of free fall. A gash, a few fires and some fuel won't do that. Get a grip. I remember you posting that you want America destroyed. So does the ZOG (Zionist Occupational Govt). Although you claim to be angry over Kosovo, your goals seem to coincide. Is that why you refute the Laws of Physics and the insurmountable evidence so hotly? Have you joined forces with the ZOG, to further the destruction of the nation and people you hate so much?
No, Nimrod. I stated that if I accepted the premise that the USA's leadership - using what has to be highly trained American cadres for such demolition and coordination work to be done on 9/11 - then such an evil nation (WITH THOUSANDS OF NUKES) can not be allowed to continue to exist. How can you trust such an evil nation with nuclear weapons like we have? In Hungry the people are rioting in the streets because the PM lied about the economy. You guys propose an even greater evil - that our leaders did what only Satanic people could carry out without pause. If I accepted that the USA's govt did this to its own people in the manner you suggest I would go on a warpath. That is the logical conclusion. If you guys are for real and think the USA's leadership did this thing when will you rise up? If you don't rise up - what kind of cowardly immoral people are you if you don't take these evil people out?
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
We are on a warpath. And yes that is the logical conclusion. Logic applied to 9/11 is what is needed. Most of us arrived at this realization a bit late. But, if Abu Ghraib, torture, Diebold, the loss of liberties (including one cherished since 1215), the torture renditions, and the willful destruction of Iraq (not to mention Lebanon this past summer) do not convince you how evil this regime is, then nothing will. Of course they are capable of 9/11! And Dov Zakheim and PNAC wrote about it years before as "the new Pearl Harbor" event required to galvanize support for their NeoShevik wars. BTW, are you following the Bush/Paraguay info? I guess a visit to The Hague has lost its thrill.
Bush would find no refuge in Paraguay - I don't think Bush or any one is fleeing anywhere i what I am saying. That is again - more internet rumors feeding on themselves.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
What would you call the Reichstag Fire?
Depending on the viewpoint, a success. /kidding
Pray you will never know, the hell where youth and laughter go - Siegfried Sassoon. Ypres, Autumn 1914.
...the Reichstag fire was a stroke of good luck for the Nazis. "The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Göring's possible role William L. Shirer's The Rise and Fall of The Third Reich (Touchstone Edition, 1990, p. 192-) details how at Nuremberg, General Franz Halder stated in an affidavit that Hermann Göring had joked about setting the fire: On the occasion of a lunch on the Führer's birthday in 1942, the people around the Führer turned the conversation to the Reichstag building and its artistic value. I heard with my own ears how Göring broke into the conversation and shouted: 'The only one who really knows about the Reichstag building is I, for I set fire to it.' And saying this he slapped his thigh. [1] [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstag_Fire_Decree The decree nullified many of the key civil liberties of German citizens. With Nazis in key positions of the German government, the decree was used as the legal basis of imprisonment of anyone considered to be opponents of the Nazis, and was used to suppress publications not considered "friendly" to the Nazi cause. The decree is considered by historians to be one of the key steps in the establishment of a one-party Nazi state in Germany. The UNpatriot ACT. Swarthyguy: Depending on the viewpoint, a success. /kidding 911 is not a success. Regardless of the viewpoint. BushCheneyInc and global backers and the corrupt in congress and the other appointees/traitors are executing their plans under pressure from an awakening public. The final outcome is yet to be determined.
RE: destro MOLE ALERT!!! Do yourself a favor and move on. This poster is a mole. Thanks kamala. (And this mole ain't alone.)
You are intellectual and moral cowards - who throw out the mole word like Freepers yell out troll. Is this a sign of your intellectual bankruptcy?
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
The Laws of physics cannot be denied I have, in person, watched buildings collapsed. They come down in seconds. I saw a 20-story building come down in four seconds. What you are writing is nonsense.
"We become what we behold. We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." -- Marshall McLuhan, after Alexander Pope and William Blake.
A 100+ story or 47 story steel-framed building with floors that supposedly "pancaked" on each other but did not even pause half a second at each floor, but fell at the rate of free fall? And, fell within its own footprint? I don't think so. Oh, and the steel center core w/o any flooring, also fell along with the whole building. The squibs (planted explosives detonating just under the falling building at precise intervals) are visible in many of the newsreel videos. Furthermore, there were loud explosions recorded & heard before the fall of the 2 towers.
Not only a mole but prolly a Jewish mole! Get with the program, dudestein!
Pray you will never know, the hell where youth and laughter go - Siegfried Sassoon. Ypres, Autumn 1914.
Nonsense? The laws of physics are not nonsense. Buildings cannot come down at near freefall speeds if they are at the same time colliding with floors below. This is basic science you are calling nonsense. Does a car that is moving at 60 MPH that hits another car that is not moving continue to move at 60 MPH after the collision? For a person that claims to have a high IQ you should know better than this.
God is always good! Only in a vacuum. Sure you did.
God is always good! Parts of buildings not encountering resistance would come down at free fall speeds - all things fall in 'free fall' if not acted upon. But you stated yourself they fell at near free fall - hence - something restricted the ability to fall at free fall. The best evidence is thus the floors it collided with. Maybe you guys have not been around construction of this scale - the mass and weight are enormous. They do create a pulverizing effect on massive steel and concrete structures.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
When you state falling at free fall speeds - all things would fall at that speed. What speed should it fall under?
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
No, the very slight difference does not come close to what would have happened in a supposed "pancake" fall. Watch the videos. They explain all of this very well..
I have. That's why I know this explosives-in-the-towers is nonsense. My father owned a construction company, and I was raised in the business. The "Truthers" don't under that when buildings are demolished, they are first gutted. Explosives themselves wouldn't bring down a building, not unless you maybe used nukes or put so many explosives in the building you'll kill everyone for a few blocks around. Pancaking is a well-known phenomena, as are buildings falling in their own "footprint." Nothing out of the ordinary about either. And, imploded buildings always fall from the bottom up. The WTC fell from the top down, specifically where the planes hit. I see no evidence at all that nothing was involved except the biggest flying bombs in the world -- 20 tons of flying metal, loaded with over 10,000 gallons of jet fuel, hitting two poorly-designed buildings at over 300 mph.
"We become what we behold. We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." -- Marshall McLuhan, after Alexander Pope and William Blake.
I already corrected you once, but I guess you didn't understand. Nothing falls at a free fall rate unless in a vacuum. The towers were in no vacuum. The towers fell within anywhere from 8 to 20 percent slower than free fall time depending on which tower you are talking about and which official collapse time you believe. This is way too fast considering the official pancake theory. The fact that the antenna on top of the North tower can clearly be seen as falling straight down first means that the core it was standing on was compromised even before the floors started to fall. The core of this building obviously failed first which proves a controlled demolition was occurring given the circumstances of that day. The pancake theory cannot account for a core failing at all, much less even before the alleged pancaking even occurred. Also the pancake theory cannot account for the floors being pulverized to dust when they supposedly had only begun to fall, which of course would have meant a speed under 20 MPH. Collisions at such speeds will produce less fine particles than what was observed being ejected from the towers shortly after they began to collapse, or stated more correctly, explode.
God is always good! That might as well be slow motion compared to 'free fall' speed. Oops. But that's OK keep looking for explosives inside the Towers. Make any true investigation into the events of 9/11 look like the ravings of kooks and thus preventing the underlying truth from emerging. "The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
You have repeated this more than once and you are still wrong. Explosives placed at the proper positions throughout a structure and detonated in a predetermined sequence bring down such structures routinely.
God is always good!
#2. To: Destro (#1)
In fact demolitions won't bring down a building in and of themselves.
#3. To: Critter (#2)
#4. To: Destro (#3)
#5. To: robin (#0)
#6. To: robin (#0)
#7. To: Destro (#1)
#8. To: Critter (#4)
#9. To: YertleTurtle (#6)
The author should have written how he lives next to Elvis. It would have made the article more believable.
#10. To: Burkeman1, Kamala, robin (#5)
(Edited)
#11. To: Kamala, Critter (#8)
Nevermind about WTC 7. It got tired, an just fell down.
#12. To: Destro (#1)
Demolitions don't work that way.
#13. To: YertleTurtle (#6)
#14. To: robin (#12)
Which is exactly what the man who wrote this saying, that it took years to plan this and months to prepare the building.
#15. To: Destro (#14)
#16. To: angle (#9)
What surprises me most, however, is how very few intelligent people in America question the obvious signature of the crime, even after five years.
#17. To: Destro (#10)
(Edited)
#18. To: robin (#15)
They also play the video of Larry Silverstein, who coincidently owned all 3 buildings that fell that day, saying on the video "so I told them to 'pull it'". He used a term used in demolitions regarding WTC7.
#19. To: robin (#17)
But planes alone could not take down those towers. And NOTHING flew into WTC7.
#20. To: Destro (#19)
#21. To: Destro (#18)
#22. To: robin (#16)
(Edited)
#23. To: Destro (#18)
#24. To: angle (#22)
Of course I don't believe the official lie.
#25. To: angle (#22)
I just don't happen to believe that this fellow was involved. Story's too schmaltzy.
#26. To: robin (#24)
#27. To: robin (#21)
have you seen the video interview where he says exactly "pull it"?
#28. To: It Is A Republic (#25)
The above scenario is fiction but probably far closer to the truth than anything yet offered in the so-called fact based media.
#29. To: angle (#28)
I'll agree with that.
#30. To: Burkeman1 (#5)
#31. To: It Is A Republic, Burkeman1, Kamala, robin, angle, YertleTurtle (#29)
#32. To: Red Jones (#30)
#33. To: It Is A Republic (#32)
#34. To: It Is A Republic (#32)
#35. To: aristeides, It Is A Republic (#34)
If Al Qaeda was really the bunch that pulled off 9/11, wouldn't they have been able to prevent the defeat of the Taliban in Afghanistan?
#36. To: robin (#13)
And if you're so smart how do you explain the free fall speed at which these buildings fell?
#37. To: aristeides (#34)
#38. To: It Is A Republic (#32)
#39. To: YertleTurtle, robin (#36)
I'm been involved in construction since the day I was born, and have seen many buildings fall. There was nothing out of the ordinary at the speed they fell. They also -- all of them -- fall into their own "footprint."
#40. To: YertleTurtle (#36)
I'm been involved in construction since the day I was born, and have seen many buildings fall. There was nothing out of the ordinary at the speed they fell.
#41. To: Red Jones, It Is A Republic (#38)
I don't agree with your assessment of the MSM. the MSM is a dishonest propaganda tool IMHO. also, the simple facts of 911 don't jibe with official explanations.
#42. To: Destro (#41)
not how the buildings fell down - which is self evident.
#43. To: Destro (#41)
Or were they doing what elements within our power structure wanted?
#44. To: Critter (#42)
Believers of the official collapse theory are generally full of contradiction and you seem to be one of them.
#45. To: Destro (#27)
#46. To: YertleTurtle (#36)
And if you're so smart how do you explain the free fall speed at which these buildings fell?
#47. To: Red Jones (#38)
1) I don't agree with your assessment of the MSM. the MSM is a dishonest propaganda tool IMHO.
#48. To: Destro (#27)
#49. To: Critter (#40)
Yup, those 1000+ foot tall towers are falling all the time. Yup, by the hundreds. Nothing out of the ordinary here.
#50. To: aristeides, *Balkans* (#43)
If they had assistance from people working inside the buildings, I don't see how that could have happened without assistance from inside the government.
#51. To: Destro (#44)
I beleive in the official planes hit the building theory.
Why do you guys assume that they needed an additional building collapse to make the day more horrible?
It was a columnless structure - supported by a core and the outer skin. Thie made for quick construction and an open floor space. So it would be a miracle of the building could stand up with such gashes in its superstructure.
But the govt loves people going nuts over this because this becomes the dominant theory that draws peoples attention away from the true murky background of 9/11.
I will repeat again, the real conspiracy is the fact that these 9/11 Muslims had ties with our intel orgs.
Or were they doing what elements within our power structure wanted?
#52. To: robin, It Is A Republic (#48)
(Edited)
Do you too believe that the buildings pancaked on top of each other; yet managed to fall at the rate of free fall?
#53. To: Critter (#51)
Is your name at LP Yukon or BeAChooser?
#54. To: Destro (#52)
The freefall rate is one man's work based on his own assumptions - a man not involved in the construction nore demolition industry.
#55. To: Critter (#51)
Simply watching the reactions when planes hit, compared to reactions when buildings fell, tells me that the collapses had MUCH more of an impact on the public at large.
#56. To: Destro (#55)
Wow - the govt sure has some awesome psychic powers - because if I was in the meeting and told the plan would be to have planes hit the tower to create a terror effect to cow the people I would not even think you needed even more horror to carry such a task out! I mean I could see the presenter telling the panel - 'but wait, there's more!'
#57. To: Destro (#55)
It stretches not only credibility but Occam's Therum.
#58. To: Critter, AGAviator (#51)
You are BeAChooser, aren't you?
#59. To: robin (#54)
#60. To: Critter, It Is A Republic (#56)
It just so happened that there were numerous other reasons to take out those buildings. It became a matter of convenience I think. Get rid of the albatros, and seriously shock the American public at the same time.
#61. To: It Is A Republic (#47)
#62. To: Destro (#41)
Or were they doing what elements within our power structure wanted?
#63. To: Red Jones (#61)
#64. To: It Is A Republic (#29)
the suspense novel, The Guns of Dallas, that features a confessed hitman revealing the perfect scenario for the murder of JFK
#65. To: Destro, Its a republic, yertle turtle (#31)
#66. To: It Is A Republic (#47)
I see the 9-11 factor being too far out there for them to run with.
#67. To: It Is A Republic (#49)
just those pesky airplanes
#68. To: Destro (#52)
The freefall rate is one man's work based on his own assumptions - a man not involved in the construction or demolition industry.
#69. To: Destro (#31)
it is deadly serious accusation against the govt
#70. To: Destro (#59)
http://prisonplanet.com is a joke.
#71. To: angle (#68)
Professor Steven Jones is a respected physicist and his research has been peer-reviewed.
#72. To: angle (#69)
it is deadly serious accusation against the govt
#73. To: robin (#70)
#74. To: angle (#68)
Professor Steven Jones is a respected physicist and his research has been peer-reviewed.
#75. To: Destro (#73)
Alex Jones is a joke.
#76. To: Destro (#71)
Professor Steven Jones is a respected physicist and his research regarding "Why Indeed Did the WTC Buildings Completely Collapse?" has been peer-reviewed.
#77. To: Burkeman1 (#5)
Excellent.
#78. To: Destro (#74)
#79. To: Burkeman1 (#5)
One of the arguments you hear routinely out of the mouths of the official line spewers is that such an operation couldn't be kept secret because of the enormous numbers of people who would need to be involved. Someone would talk- Larry King would interiew the guy.
#80. To: Destro (#10)
#81. To: robin (#79)
One of the arguments you hear routinely out of the mouths of the official line spewers is that such an operation couldn't be kept secret because of the enormous numbers of people who would need to be involved.
#82. To: Destro (#11)
#83. To: robin (#75)
#84. To: InsideJob (#81)
That's a horseshit argument to begin with.
#85. To: Destro (#18)
#86. To: Destro (#19)
(Edited)
#87. To: InsideJob (#81)
The Manhattan Project was kept secret for years by thousands and thousands of people. They only revealed it when they had to.
#88. To: Destro, It Is A Republic, Yertle Turtle (#73)
Alex Jones is a joke.
#89. To: Destro (#35)
#90. To: YertleTurtle (#36)
Stick to Pug Bowling.
#91. To: angle (#78)
Do your own research, shill.
#92. To: InsideJob (#81)
The Manhattan Project was kept secret for years by thousands and thousands of people. They only revealed it when they had to.
#93. To: Kamala (#82)
When in the history structual steel skyscrapers, does fire in any form, cause buildings to collapse?
#94. To: angle, robin, burkeman1 (#83)
I think one has to ask oneself why a poster like destro would come to this site posting the rhetoric he/she does if he/she in fact was looking for truth.
#95. To: It Is A Republic (#37)
#96. To: Destro (#39)
#97. To: angle (#83)
I think one has to ask oneself why a poster like destro would come to this site posting the rhetoric he/she does if he/she in fact was looking for truth.
#98. To: christine, It Is A Republic, Yertle Turtle, robin, angle (#88)
Yeah, this is a real joke. Let's see you refute AJ's documentation of government sponsored terrorism and false flag operations. Funny, governments themselves admit to it.
#99. To: Kamala (#89)
I actually agree with #2. 25% of the patsy hijackers were trained intell assets with ties from Afganistan/Pakistan/Saudi/Western Intell. 40% of the hijackers were doubles, had false ids or are still alive.
#100. To: Destro (#41)
....how the buildings fell down - which is self evident....
#101. To: Destro, kamala, It is a republic, angle, christine (#91)
I call for the elimination of America and I am a shill?
#102. To: Destro (#44)
...a columnless structure...
#103. To: It Is A Republic (#49)
#104. To: Destro (#60)
Who knew govt could be so efficient
#105. To: Destro (#52)
#106. To: Kamala (#96)
You are making a claim that engineers build skyscrapers to fail, collapse and implode on themselves?
#107. To: Destro (#98)
#108. To: Fred Mertz (#84)
Is Santorum toast?
#109. To: Destro (#71)
#110. To: Red Jones (#101)
none of us call for the destruction of America except you. You are unique in that.
#111. To: Destro (#106)
Nearly every large building has a redundant design that allows for loss of one primary structural member, such as a column. However, when multiple members fail, the shifting loads eventually overstress the adjacent members and the collapse occurs like a row of dominoes falling down
#112. To: Destro (#92)
Tell that to Joe Stalin.
#113. To: Kamala (#102)
with horizonal girders
#114. To: Destro (#110)
If you think America did this itself then how dare you not also demand the elimination of America? America is a monsterous nation if you accept she did this to her own people. That is why I openly call for her destruction if this is truth.
#115. To: Destro (#106)
#116. To: Destro (#113)
Steel turns to wet noodles in fire.
#117. To: Critter (#111)
Hogwash.
#118. To: Destro (#117)
#119. To: Destro (#98)
drones hit the towers is in fact a honey trap
#120. To: Critter (#114)
Having certain criminal elements within the government does not indict an entire nation. Go back to Kosovo.
#121. To: robin (#115)
#122. To: Critter (#116)
So two 110 story towers turned to wet noodles because of a fire on a couple of floors? lmao
#123. To: Destro (#93)
#124. To: Destro (#120)
#125. To: Critter (#118)
None of what he said pertains to WTC construction.
#126. To: Itisa1mosttoolate (#121)
http://www.rense.com/general73/confess.htm
#127. To: Destro (#98)
#128. To: swarthyguy (#119)
Hence, PAF pilots who underwent a jihadi evangelical moment, and a carefully contrived plot - known to many, and allowed to run for various purposes by intel services, who thinking they were in charge, didn't realize that jihadis had their own plot, running below all the spookdaddies(US, UK, Saudi, Paki etc).
#129. To: Destro (#113)
they failed because they were softened by the fire. Steel turns to wet noodles in fire
#130. To: robin (#126)
#131. To: Itisa1mosttoolate (#130)
#132. To: christine (#129)
#133. To: christine (#129)
#134. To: Kamala (#123)
Fireproofing is to allow for people to safely evacuate in a safe amount of time from smoke, fire and heat.
#135. To: InsideJob (#133)
#136. To: Kamala (#95)
Iraq is going to plan perfectly.
#137. To: Destro (#106)
#138. To: Red Jones (#124)
so let me get this straight. You are American? and you advocate complete destruction of America because the US did wrong in Serbia in 1999? Is that correct? and you're not one of those psy-op types?
#139. To: christine (#129)
(Edited)
Steel turns to wet noodles in fire
remote area who, after being asked by Reconnaissance Marines if
he had seen any foreign fighters in the area replied "Yes, you."
#140. To: Destro (#138)
#141. To: Kamala (#127)
We agree on certain things. I'm sure we are on the same page about Operation Gladio
#142. To: Destro (#113)
#143. To: Destro (#134)
#144. To: aristeides (#140)
You think that after 1945 Germany should not have been allowed to continue to exist?
#145. To: Fred Mertz (#135)
#146. To: Destro (#144)
#147. To: Red Jones (#143)
you still haven't told us your nationality.
#148. To: Destro (#141)
I think Gladio (or the Italian arm of it) was used to try and kill the last Pope - over the Vatican Bank scandal.
#149. To: Destro (#117)
(Edited)
#150. To: aristeides (#146)
So you really do believe that support for the Kosovo war is sufficient reason for a nation to cease to exist?
#151. To: aristeides (#148)
#152. To: Kamala (#149)
#153. To: Destro (#147)
See, really you tyypes are calling for the destruction of America by claiming America does such evil and such evil nations can't be allowed to exist now can they?
#154. To: Destro (#134)
Here we have FIRESTOPPED through-penetrations.
#155. To: InsideJob (#133)
#156. To: It Is A Republic (#155)
#157. To: Destro (#138)
If one accepts the theory that the USA's ruling elite carried out planned demolitions to make it look like the planes knocked down the towers then America is ruled by evil and thus the only logical end point for such a scenario is that if the people do not end bring these people to justice America can't be allowed to exist and threaten the world.
#158. To: Ferret Mike (#156)
#159. To: It Is A Republic (#155)
#160. To: Destro (#91)
I am a shill? I call for the elimination of America.
#161. To: Kamala (#95)
All looks good if you are a Neo Con Global Fascist.
#162. To: Destro (#122)
What would support the upper floors without the said 2 floors? Angels?
#163. To: It Is A Republic (#158)
"Not reaching a bit. A study of Chemistry of fire has many facts that might seem to be a reach."
#164. To: Kamala (#159)
#165. To: Destro (#125)
#166. To: Destro (#113)
Steel turns to wet noodles in fire.
#167. To: It Is A Republic (#164)
(Edited)
about a fiftieth of the nuclear bomb dropped on Hiroshima.
When most of this heat is confined to two levels of the WTC tower it would raise the temperature of each level above 1000 C
#168. To: angle (#160)
The penalty for treason is death. Keep it in mind.
#169. To: angle (#166)
This must be Kudzu from LF.
#170. To: It Is A Republic (#164)
#171. To: Critter (#167)
#172. To: Critter (#165)
#173. To: Kamala (#172)
(Edited)
#174. To: Ferret Mike (#171)
#175. To: Destro (#94)
#176. To: Destro (#1)
In fact demolitions won't bring down a building in and of themselves.
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#177. To: Destro (#10)
I don't know if you all are aware of my posting history.
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#178. To: Destro (#11)
WTC7 already had a chuck of it taken out when the other buildings fell and then the fire weakened the rest of it. A slow cook of thousands of gallons of diesel oil inside the WTC7.
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#179. To: Destro (#18)
(Edited)
It was in reference to pulling out of WTC 7 and not trying to save it.
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#180. To: Ferret Mike (#171)
And fuel spilled aloft did not fracture the very strong 'bathtub' of concrete sunk deep in the Earth to keep the river at bay
#181. To: Destro (#19)
Wrong - chunks of the collapsed towers flew into WTC7.
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#182. To: It Is A Republic (#25)
The above scenario is fiction but probably far closer to the truth than anything yet offered in the so-called fact based media.
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#183. To: Destro (#31)
So when are you all going to head into the mountains and form the resistance?
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#184. To: YertleTurtle (#36)
There was nothing out of the ordinary at the speed they fell.
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#185. To: angle (#160)
Damn straight you're a shill. If you call for the elimination of America, you're a traitor as well. The penalty for treason is death. Keep it in mind.
#186. To: angle (#166)
Bwahahahahaaaa. This must be Kudzu from LF.
#187. To: InsideJob, angle (#168)
The penalty for treason is death. Keep it in mind.
#188. To: RickyJ (#177)
Your posting history would only tend to expose you as an agent.
#189. To: Destro (#186)
(Edited)
Kudzu is an American who works for the Saudis. I support Serbs who kill such Saudi-American Muslims in the Balkans.
#190. To: Destro (#187)
#191. To: RickyJ (#183)
Mountains? 84% know the government is lying, we are not exactly hiding. When are YOU planning on heading to the mountains?
#192. To: robin (#0)
#193. To: Destro (#187)
if I accept that America's leadership carried out 9/11 then there IS NO ALTERNATIVE but to seek the ending of America.
#194. To: Red Jones, swarthyguy, burkeman1 (#190)
If your words are to be taken seriously, then I guess you'd do the right thing and kill yourself because evil came from our nation and you are of our nation. maybe our forum would be better off if that were to happen. but I do not advocate it.
#195. To: angle (#193)
...if I accept that America's leadership carried out 9/11 then there IS NO ALTERNATIVE but to seek the ending of America's leadership.
#196. To: Destro (#187)
if I accept that America's leadership carried out 9/11 then there IS NO ALTERNATIVE but to seek the ending of America.
#197. To: Destro (#52)
(Edited)
The freefall rate is one man's work based on his own assumptions - a man not involved in the construction or demolition industry.
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#198. To: Destro (#195)
Agree or disagree?
#199. To: Destro (#195)
Correct, but the American people allow such leadership -
#200. To: Destro (#194)
You must understand I WOULD LOVE TO EMBRACE the demolition theory of 9/11
#201. To: Destro (#72)
(Edited)
So when will you rise up and target the regime? I am for wiping out America from stem to stern - scattering her seed - salting her earth if the above scenario is true.
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#202. To: aristeides, Itisa1mosttoolate, Destro, Kamala, angle (#192)
Senior Military, Intelligence, and Government Officials Question 9/11 Commission Report
#203. To: Agent Destro (#187)
General Lee is in hell? Sign me up.
#204. To: RickyJ, Destro, christine, All (#197)
I suggest you give up your shill efforts at this forum. No one here will respond to your silliness for too long and you will be exposed for the crackpot government theory nut you are.
#205. To: christine (#196)
how about making the distinction between ending the treasonous corrupt american government, which has become the enemy of we-the-people, rather than America?
#206. To: christine (#200)
That is difficult to believe, Destro, when you refuse to look at videos which will prove it and instead make outrageous statements such as, "they failed because they were softened by the fire. Steel turns to wet noodles in fire."
#207. To: christine (#199)
yes, this is true and, imo, we are in much need of a second revolution.
#208. To: Destro (#205)
If you buy this scenario that the US govt is so evil when will you remove them?
#209. To: RickyJ (#201)
(Edited)
Yet you haven't done it. What are you, a coward?
#210. To: InsideJob (#203)
(Edited)
#211. To: Destro (#210)
Because I admire General Lee and how he killed tens of thousands of Americans?
#212. To: InsideJob (#211)
Besides the slavery issue what was another reason the south seceded? To prevent an omni-present centralized government which is exactly what happened.
#213. To: Destro (#212)
#214. To: InsideJob (#213)
There you go...twisting it around again. You know damn well what I'm inferring.
#215. To: Burkeman1 (#175)
"from what I have read I believe they came down with charges. "
#216. To: Destro (#194)
an appealing but distracting conspiracy theory that sucks away credibility and resources from the real deal.
#217. To: u-89 (#215)
#218. To: u-89 (#215)
I haven't followed things closely so maybe I'm missing some important "facts." But considering the history of this country's government, and the temperament of the neocons, their publicly stated policy goals, and circumstantial evidence, I have to suspect malfeasance first and foremost.
#219. To: u-89 (#215)
#220. To: Destro (#195)
the American people allow such leadership - empower it and do nothing against it
#221. To: Jethro Tull (#198)
I'm a decent human being, much more willing to love than hate. Americans for the most part are like me, I suspect. Now should someone else ...
#222. To: leveller (#216)
the 9/11 conspiracy theorists have proven only that certain questions are unanswered
#223. To: leveller (#216)
WTC 7 bothers me, as do other problems with the official line
#224. To: Destro (#194)
an appealing but distracting conspiracy theory that sucks away credibility and resources from the real deal.
#225. To: Destro (#223)
2 things square it away for me. The collapse of the 2 towers severely weakened the building - coupled with the fact Giuliani in a bone headed move built into the WTC7 his command bunker high up - the only known sky high bunker ever - and installed diesel fuel storage tanks - several thousand gallons - this caught on fire as the flaming debris fell into WTC7.
#226. To: BTP Holdings (#224)
Could you expound on what is the "real deal?"
#227. To: Destro (#226)
(Edited)
An aspect of the conspiracy is to hide the fact that these 9/11 Muslims had ties with our intel orgs.
Now did our pet Muslims - used by the USA via proxies to fight the Russians and Serbs and Chinese and Indians - go rogue and double cross us?
Maybe a little of both?
That is the question - not how the buildings fell down - which is self evident and in fact meaningless because our govt is implicated one way or another.
#228. To: BTP Holdings (#227)
There is no profit in peace.
#229. To: BTP Holdings (#227)
But the Bush's and their cohorts in crime are only water bearers for the real power behind the scenes, the international bankers. The Bush Crime Family is allowed to grab as much loot as they are able, as long as they keep in line with the program supplied by their ultimate controllers.
#230. To: u-89 (#215)
#231. To: Burkeman1 (#230)
#232. To: Burkeman1 (#230)
And if this was the US government circa 1901 I would say such a conspiracy would be completely and totally impossible. The infrastructure of evil simply didn't exist in this country in 1901 for such an truly evil false flag op like 9/11 to be pulled off. But America circa 2001? Yes.
#233. To: Burkeman1 (#230)
But I happen to think it is another sort of blowback. It is the blowback of the CULTURE of empire that has been bred within our government for a 100 years. This is a culture that exists on its own, quite outside the rest of the country- that has its own rules, mores, and ways of doing things. 9/11 was merely the habits of empire coming home to roost.
#234. To: angle (#231)
#235. To: Destro (#226)
#236. To: Burkeman1 (#234)
It is 2006 and the truth cannot be contained nearly as easily. But on the other hand we are a very different people from 1963 as well . . . we have been corrupted just as much as our shadow government. We are more stupid, more selfish, more atomized, and more dependent on government than we were in 1963.
#237. To: scrapper2, bluedogtxn (#236)
they are too greedy to pay mercenary wages to the GI's
#238. To: Burkeman1, scrapper2, robin, angle, christine, BTP Holdings, leveller, swarthguy (#235)
How the buildings fell is a bit of a distraction. But on another level- I think a lot of the 9/11 truth movement has been concentrating on why the buildings fell because it is the THE IMAGE in the brains of Americans and what they associate 9/11 with- and the official line on those collapses is just so pathetic and improbable and frankly impossible.
#239. To: Burkeman1, scrapper2, robin, angle, christine, BTP Holdings, leveller, swarthguy (#235)
#240. To: angle, Burkeman1 (#231)
So where's the chink in the armor...the achilles heel?
#241. To: robin (#237)
scrapper: they are too greedy to pay mercenary wages to the GI's
#242. To: Destro (#239)
I am using an old debate style and rhetorical technique - the Socratic method.
#243. To: Burkeman1 (#230)
But I happen to think it is another sort of blowback. It is the blowback of the CULTURE of empire that has been bred within our government for a 100 years.
#244. To: Lady X (#242)
Let's hear more about this debate technique please.
#245. To: BTP Holdings (#243)
The start was the American defeat in the Spanish-American War. That was the beginning of the empire.
#246. To: Destro (#19)
But planes alone could not take down those towers. And NOTHING flew into WTC7.
#247. To: Destro (#245)
It's us, Pogo was right, we have met the enemy and he is our erstwhile allies. LOL!
#248. To: maggies mom (#246)
furthermore, the a-bomb dome (made of steel and glass) in Hiroshima, Japan was exposed to thousands of degrees of (nuclear) heat and never crumbled.....
#249. To: Destro (#245)
You meant American victory I am sure.
#250. To: Destro, maggies mom (#248)
WTC7 Is just across the street from the Towers. The collapse tore a gash in its side. The diesel tanks for the mayor's emergency command ignited.
Building 7's Location
Building 7 occupied a city block immediately north of the World Trade Center complex. WTC 1 through WTC 6 were on the superblock bounded by West, Church, Liberty, and Vessey Streets. Building 7 was wedged between the Verizon and U.S. Post Office buildings across Vessey Street from the WTC complex. It straddled an electrical substation that filled the first two stories of about half the block. 
The wall of Building 7 closest to the WTC complex was more than 300 feet from the nearest wall of the North Tower. It appears that nearly all of the heavy fallout from the disintegration of the North Tower landed short of Building 7. Building 6 stood between the North Tower and Building 7. 
These photographs show Building 7 in front of the exploding North Tower. It is the square bronze building on the left. Even in the second photo, the nearest of the debris from the tower is several hundred feet behind Building 7.
#251. To: BTP Holdings, maggies mom (#250)
Got any pics that show the damage you claim?
The above photo is very different than the photos you usually see on conspiracy sites.
#252. To: Destro, maggies mom (#251)
The above photo is very different than the photos you usually see on conspiracy sites.
#253. To: BTP Holdings, maggies mom (#252)
(Edited)
sure is, nothing but a smoke and dust cloud. Where is the structural damage? LOL
#254. To: Destro (#253)
#255. To: Destro, maggies mom (#253)
See, that was a ste up by me of you - lets me post another photo further debunking you.
#256. To: BTP Holdings, maggies mom (#255)
Furthermore, it in no way explains the classic demolition collapse of WTC 7. That damage on one corner of the building would never in a million years cause that building to collapse
#257. To: Destro (#244)
We shall start by asking if you saw my application of the Socratic method work on this thread?
#258. To: angle (#254)
Riiight. You're here to discuss the truth of the matter.
#259. To: Destro (#239)
Which is probably why the Athenians made him drink the hemlock.
Lord loves a workin' man; don't trust whitey; see a doctor and get rid of it.
#260. To: BTP Holdings (#255)
Furthermore, it in no way explains the classic demolition collapse of WTC 7. That damage on one corner of the building would never in a million years cause that building to collapse.
#261. To: Tauzero (#259)
The prosecution of Socrates was not without point.
#262. To: Destro (#260)
You dare make such a statement when at first you questioned my assertion that there ever existed such a huge structural gash to begin with????
Does that even classify as logical reasoning?
Science and reason don't work like that.
#263. To: BTP Holdings (#262)
(Edited)
That hardly qualifies as sufficient damage to cause the building to collapse. Your attempts at making that damage so disproportionate are clearly disinformation.
#264. To: BTP Holdings (#262)
Those pictures are from a disinfo site. you can just go right here and read destro's talking points for yourself.
#265. To: angle, BTP Holdings (#264)
Those pictures are from a disinfo site. you can just go right here and read destro's talking points for yourself.
#266. To: Burkeman1, Destro (#235)
Concentrating on the hijackers, who knew what when about them, who paid them . . . to me- is more interesting than why the buildings fell.
#267. To: swarthyguy (#266)
But, in this case, virtual silence.
#268. To: Destro (#265)
do you accept a huge gash existed in the WTC 7 as a result from the debris free fall of the Twin Towers?
#269. To: swarthyguy (#266)
We'd have the results of his colonoscopy posted.
#270. To: angle (#269)
#271. To: angle (#268)
#272. To: Destro, BTPHoldings, christine, arator, kamala, noone22 (#271)
#273. To: Destro (#271)
#274. To: robin (#273)
Did WTC7 tip or lean to the side with the gash?
#275. To: angle, BTPHoldings, christine, arator, kamala, noone22, robin (#272)
Jeez, for someone who purports to want to discuss exactly who the perpetrators of 911 are
#276. To: Destro (#274)
#277. To: Red Jones (#276)
your photo shows that it fell straight down. it was a 47 story building.
#278. To: angle (#272)
#279. To: Destro (#274)
#280. To: robin, yertleturtle (#279)
There are many excellent videos with newsreel footage of the entire collapse that show how it fell at the rate of free fall (only possible in a demolition).
#281. To: Kamala (#278)
This poster is a mole.
#282. To: Destro (#280)
#283. To: robin, yertleturtle (#282)
(Edited)
THE ONLY WAY A BUILDING FALLS AT THE RATE OF "FREE FALL" IS IN A CONTROLLED DEMOLITION.
#284. To: Destro (#283)
#285. To: robin, Mole Alert!! (#279)
MOLE ALERT!!!
#286. To: robin (#284)
#287. To: Destro (#286)
#288. To: robin, swarthyguy (#287)
(Edited)
I remember you posting that you want America destroyed. So does the ZOG (Zionist Occupational Govt). Although you claim to be angry over Kosovo, your goals seem to coincide.
#289. To: Destro (#288)
If I accepted that the USA's govt did this to its own people in the manner you suggest I would go on a warpath. That is the logical conclusion.
#290. To: robin (#289)
BTW, are you following the Bush/Paraguay info? I guess a visit to The Hague has lost its thrill.
#291. To: angle, BTPHoldings, christine, arator, kamala, noone22, robin, swarthyguy (#275)
#292. To: Destro (#291)
#293. To: robin (#292)
the Reichstag Fire
#294. To: robin (#292)
(Edited)
What would you call the Reichstag Fire?
#295. To: Destro (#294)
(Edited)
Another theory appears in the book Himmler's Secret War by Martin Allen (published in Great Britain by Robson Books in the year 2005). According to this book, the Reichstag fire was started by a band of Sicherheitsdienst (SD, the SS security service) agents who secretly entered the Reichstag through an underground tunnel that was connected to Göring's official residence. [edit]
#296. To: swarthyguy (#293)
Robin: What would you call the Reichstag Fire?
#297. To: robin (#292)
(Edited)
#298. To: angle, robin, kamala, swarthyguy (#297)
#299. To: robin (#282)
THE ONLY WAY A BUILDING FALLS AT THE RATE OF "FREE FALL" IS IN A CONTROLLED DEMOLITION.
#300. To: YertleTurtle (#299)
#301. To: Destro (#298)
#302. To: YertleTurtle, Robin (#299)
(Edited)
Robin: The Laws of physics cannot be denied
YertleTurtle: What you are writing is nonsense.
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#303. To: Destro (#283)
All things fall in a state of free fall.
See, I passed my physics class.
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#304. To: RickyJ, YertleTurtle, Robin (#302)
Buildings cannot come down at near freefall speeds if they are at the same time colliding with floors below.
#305. To: RickyJ (#303)
#306. To: Destro (#304)
But you stated yourself they fell at near free fall - hence - something restricted the ability to fall at free fall. The best evidence is thus the floors it collided with.
#307. To: Destro (#304)
Maybe you guys have not been around construction of this scale - the mass and weight are enormous. They do create a pulverizing effect on massive steel and concrete structures
#308. To: Destro (#304)
(Edited)
Parts of buildings not encountering resistance would come down at free fall speeds - all things fall in 'free fall' if not acted upon.
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#309. To: RickyJ, YertleTurtle (#308)
(Edited)
The towers fell within anywhere from 8 to 20 percent slower than free fall time depending on which tower you are talking about and which official collapse time you believe.
#310. To: YertleTurtle (#307)
Explosives themselves wouldn't bring down a building
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
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