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Title: View of a Military Expert: Why the Towers of the World Trade Center collapsed
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URL Source: http://www.serendipity.li/wot/finn/5/soldier5.htm
Published: Oct 22, 2006
Author: anonymous Finn
Post Date: 2006-10-22 12:30:26 by robin
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Views: 2625
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View of a Military Expert: Why the Towers of the World Trade Center collapsed The airplanes did not a have true effect on the destruction of towers; they were needed to give an excuse for odd Orwellian wars at the same time when the USA is turned into a police nation, like the German Third Reich, to some extent. The towers took the impacts of crushing Boeing 767's. The towers were originally built to take impacts of Boeing 707's, which are approximately of the same size and was widely used in the 1970's. Fires that kindled from the fuel in the planes were too shortlasting and weak to be able to severely damage the structure of the skyscrapers. Even in the extreme situation, the heat from a kerosene fire cannot threat the durability of a steel trunk. With the temperature of carbohydrate fires that reaches only 825 °C (approx. 1517 °F) steel weakens at 800 °C (approx. 1470 °F) and melts at 1585 °C (approx. 2890 °F). In the skyscrapers of the WTC the surroundings were not at all ideal as there were far too many steel columns and they led heat away from the burning area. WTC 1 burned for 102 minutes and WTC 2 for 56 minutes only. A fire burning much longer, from 10 to 20 hours, could slowly increase the burning temperature down to perhaps 1100 °C (approx. 2010 °F). Provided there is more substance to burn, such a fire will damage concrete and irons, but not severely heavy steel constructions. In mid-February in Madrid, the Windsor Tower (see above) burned for over 20 hours, which led to a fire stronger and hotter than that in the WTC, but even the collapses of the Windsor Tower caused by the very strong and long-enduring fire were minimal and limited to the upper floors. If either of the WTC tower had started to collapse because of fires the collapse would have been limited to only a few of the floors and then stopped. The impossibility of a gravitational collapse is closer seen in other documents. A collapse would produce large pieces, and does not explain reports of fine dust from concrete, huge amounts of dust and pieces of steel ejected outwards. Destruction of the towers by explosions is clear according to the photographs and reports of the eye witnesses. In the picture below, a range of cutting charges have just exploded in the down left sector and a typical white cloud is formed outwards from the wall. Down right, explosions are seen as well. Even a flame is seen. In video tapes taken of the so-called collapses of the WTC, more explosions of these cutting charges can be seen. The explosions advance quickly, with a gap of a couple of floors, cutting the strong steel pillars in the outer wall. The explosions are timed so that it appears that the tower collapses occur in the same timing as in a gravitational collapse. The explosions are not completely synchronized in timing, probably a few charges are triggered by radio, and other charges explode out of the impulses of one of these charges (infrared, pressure wave). More challenging problems to the demolition men, however, were the central cores of the buildings and the 47 steel pillars more robust than the ones on the outer rounds. The pillars of the central cores were made of steel even 100 + 100 mm thick, thicker than the side armours of a battle tank. Cutting those, even with explosives, is extremely difficult. One would need to surround the whole pillars, every single pillar on every floor intended to get blasted, with powerful cutting charges. These charges would have needed to be placed in such a way that the users of the skyscrapers could not notice these preparations. As seen in the following pictures, the cores of the towers were not distracted by thousands of powerful cutting charges but by a modern thermonuclear explosive, a small hydrogen bomb. In the picture below, a hydrogen bomb explosion, the bomb having been placed in the cellar and directed to the core, has reached the roof of the tower and the upper parts of the outer walls. On its way up the waves of fire pressure partially penetrated about 100 floors of concrete and steel. Over ten million degrees of heat caused by a hydrogen bomb sublimised all water within the concrete in a moment. Water exploded extremely quickly into 24-fold volume and totally pulverized the concrete. Even people and computers that were in the buildings disappeared turning into heat and light. That is why almost nothing of them was found in the ruins. Burning radiation is absorbed in steel so quickly that steel heats up immediately over its melting point 1585 °C (approx. 2890 °F) and above its boiling point around 3000 C (approx. 5430 °F). In the pictures down below, super hot groups of steel pillars and columns, torn from wall by pressure wave, are sublimized. They immediately turn into a vaporized form, binding heat as quickly as possible. Bursts upwards, even visible in the picture below, are not possible for a gravitational collapse or for cutting charges which are used horizontally. In the upper picture the explosion is in theory 100 times stronger than in the picture below, but in practice the difference is only four times due to the capability of direction of the small hydrogen bomb. In the picture at the right, the brown shades caused by a hydrogen bomb are seen, while the top of the tower that is already collapsing is breaking down and the posture straightens up as the hydrogen bomb pulverized the core and it lost all its resistance. The piles point the blasts of the cutting charges. (Gehue plate 12) Extremely hot, sublimating pieces are not created with many methods. For comparison, pictures of subterranean nuclear explosions where the explosion is blasting onto surface and into the air: Ess1.2 Kt WTC 2 Banberry 10 Kt underground Radioactivity in air creates shades of brown. (The subterranean nuke in the picture on the right is 10 times stronger than the small nuke on the left.) This is the reason why the FBI did not search the crime scene. Ground zeros of nuclear weapons are a health risk and belong to the FEMA. Poster Comment: For the rest of this: Writings of a Finnish Military Expert on 9/11 Writings of a Finnish Military Expert on 9/11 Written in spring 2005, a modestly language-corrected version Corrected by another person than the original author. The photographs attached in this non-profit distribution are for securing volatile, important evidence on 9/11 for discussion and education. Author hereby grants full permission to reproduce the drawing 'The Bombs in the WTC' and his writings. You are encouraged to mail, publish and mass produce these documents or your enhanced versions of them. Due to concerns for his personal safety, the author has chosen to remain anonymous. And a glance at some of what he's fighting for (to keep it fair and balanced): 
Storax Sedan 104 Kt shallow underground
Steel pillars are turned into dust. 
The author has chosen to remain anonymous so I'll post this photo of a Finnish soldier. Why? Well because I like looking at Finns, even with green faces.
/9_11/$FILE/9_11.jpg)
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#65. To: Destro (#64)
Why latch onto a story that has been so thoroughly debunked? Anti conspiracy adherence to obvious lies reminds me of membership in a toxic cult. I would say the only ones in it are the truly clueless of shills trying to prop up the wilting patchwork of lies that the official story is.
Stop trying to confuse him with the facts or the "Laws of Physics". lol. He's good for a laugh and an insight into a shill, but he's not intelligent enough for a good waste of time.
Don't be stupid. You types sound like Catholics who rush to get the flock back in line with the dogma just as dogmatic as the 911 Commission adherents. If you read the conversation between yertle and I you would note that we accept the possibility - nay the probability of a conspiracy - just that we discount the demolitions were part of the equation. Read it again slow and easy.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
It would not matter - just 400-500 degrees F would reduce the strength of steel by half. "Laws of Physics".
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Who cares what you and yertle turle accept the possibility of? IMO, you're both shills trying desperately to disrupt any exchange regarding the demolition of the towers and wtc7. You're time and energy wasters. The demolitions of the towers are a given. Your continual harping on what is common knowledge is tiresome. The truth will out. Give it up.
"Laws of Physics". absolute distortion
Now don't go picking on robin. She might not know your sense of humor... :)
for who when we implicate the govt? maybe for the demolition industry? lol
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Agreed
People that use the , Uhhhhh. reply are waiting to join the winning or right group, sort of wishy washy.
Interesting spin, but one of wishful thinking that debunks your efforts, not my belief system. Your choice, I came late and reluctantly to my conclusions regarding this obvious demolition and conspiracy to do do this. I was long a skeptic of this line of thought, but anyone who conscientiously and thoroughly looks at the evidence knows better then to give the official story anything more then a disdainful brush of. It fits in too well with the needs and wants of both the Bushies and the building's owners who had an expensive white elephant removed as well as the Bushies getting their Pearl Harbor effect. You can posture anyway you want, but 9 11 was an inside job, and the buildings were blown up for political and economic reasons. To think otherwise? Don't be so stupid.
I know what happened the last time I asked you to pick wishy or washy.. I'm not going to repeat that mistake. :) Turns out, both can be right.
The administration of GW Bush is guilty of the murder of thousands and the destruction if billions of dollars worth of infrastructure in allowing the aircraft hijacking and using the confusion and damage to permit them to blow up these buildings. We go after the self implicated for justice. Now, what's so hard to understand about that?
I can't square the testimony of William Rodriquez, and others, who were in the basement of the N. tower? when they heard - and felt - explosions. Countless of people were injured and are available for MSM interview at any time. Of course you'll never see them save for the internet. These explosions were before the planes struck, btw. I've listened to liars all my life and nothing in his testimony suggests he isn't telling the truth.
Why, obviously there was a precision earthquake at that moment, and a Uri Geller hard at work making steel melt and bending spoons. Amazing how people can look at the unexplainable by any stretch of the construct of the official story and pretend that what is obvious happened, did not happen.
Short, sweet, correct. Well done, Mike.
Rick Siegel, a NYC Jew recorded them on video from Hoboken and Sinatra piers. He was made to leave the first pier because he was told that wounded would be taken there. But there never really were any large #s of wounded. His 9/11 Eyewitness video removes the time delay for the distance and there were several explosions before each tower fell. Also, the helicopters visible just before. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3498980438587461603
But I understand - America does not produce the brightest of people these days Neither does the country you are from. Gravity throws? Without gravity there wouldn't even be a concept of up and down.
God is always good! Surface welds, ones that won't even stop a tornardo. I suggest you spend your life trying to prove there were explosives in the towers, remote-controlled airplanes, all that crap. you'll waste your life trying to prove that which did not happen. I'll enjoy it. By the way, the real shills are the one who believe in impossibly complex cartoon conspiracies. Say hi to Dr. Evil to me. You believe in him, too, right?
"We become what we behold. We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." -- Marshall McLuhan, after Alexander Pope and William Blake.
OK, that is a good point. But that still doesn't explain how three towers collapsed in near free fall times due to such small fires. Yes they had damage from the planes, but they were designed to take such damage from planes comparable to the planes that struck them and WTC7 suffered no damage from any plane.
God is always good! Ah, the retard theory of 9/11.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Ah the disrupt the obvious complete with an ad hominem hoping to piss me off ploy.
I use the 3P approach to something I have no knowledge of. Possibility, plausibility and probability Were the buildings "blown" down???? Possible but highly unlikely. Is such a scenario plausible? A stretch of the imagination to give it any credibility. Finally is such probable???? Very doubtful. To someone that has no knowledge of the event, the negatives are the indicators.
They very well could have. There are some glaring errors of fact in that video even though for the most part it is very good. I could see the CIA or Mossad doing something like this. Mixing the truth with just enough absurd lies to discredit the whole thing. But you have to ask yourself why would they want to discredit the notion that the WTC towers were brought down with explosives? For what reason would they possibly do this? I can think of only one logical reason: they want to discredit the notion that the WTC towers were brought down with explosives because that is exactly what happened.
God is always good! The analysis showing this was indeed an explosive take down of these building with strange and implausible things happening from the foundation on up put the three 'P's on the side of the notion that this was a take down for economic and political purposes. These are people whose shadow government has done things in the past like kill Kennedy and felled governments and started wars toward a coherent end, and they are quite skilled in developing plausible denial that they did not take the towers down. Even the incredulity regarding what they did is a factor they correctly feels works to there advantage. There is no way those jets took those buildings down, no way they caused the explosions in the basement, no way they melted steel. 9 11 was an inside job, and Bush and company are going to go down for that they did in New York and Washington, D.C.
Mike, please do yourself a favor, move on, These moles are like poison ivy, ignore and don't scratch it, and it will go away.
Mark The FBI, rather than trying to prevent a terrorist attack, was merely gathering intelligence so they would know who to arrest when a terrorist attack occurred.— Robert Wright - Former FBI agent Given the scope of the tragedy from last week, I am glad to reassure the people of New York and Washington, D.C., that their air is safe to breathe and their water is safe to drink."— Christie Todd Whitman - 9/18/2001
Ooo, you got me mistyping - the force of gravity throws the building debris off course causing the banana peel effect. The acceleration due to gravity is 9.8 m/s^2, or 32.2 ft/s^2.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
No real investigation was even allowed. People were arrested for only taking pictures of ground zero. By controlling the "investigation", they didn't really care that any evidence could ever lead back to them. No one would ever get a chance to see such evidence. Imagine, putting GPS transmitters on dump trucks hauling debris away from ground zero. They were protecting the evidence like it was gold and only letting choice individuals to have any access whatsoever to it in a very limited capacity. Since there was no real investigation, and they knew there wouldn’t be since they had key people in power in on the plan, they wouldn’t have been afraid to have used any explosive they deemed necessary to achieve the desired effect. It was a made for TV event for sure. They wanted everyone in America seeing this on their TV screens to gain the support for the takeover of the Middle East that they have long planned.
God is always good! Thanks, perhaps I will after dealing with the obviously flawed arguments they have the misfortune to be stuck with. I have the time right now, and I've dealt with people like this for many long years in forum. Your words are noted and I wouldn't worry. I am not baffled nor baited easily at all.
You don't get it - the theory of demolition charges is a honey trap - so delicious a scenario people will waste their time and resources trying to prove that and ignore any real conspiracy. Sort of how they used UFO's as a cover story to explain away secret X planes. People spent decades looking for little green men and ignored the black budget that finances the development of all these toys our military plays with.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
my favorite post on the thread
I agree Rick to a point. The dust has traces of a plastic molecule that could be tied to a sol-gel compound. In a airport warehouse is sitting girders and molten slag/meteorites that has been "saved". All that is needed is multiple independent tests on this evidence. The thermate and nano thermite are perfect because of no tags, thermate is quiet, and can cut girders without the extra numerous cracks of high explosives, and is very powerful.
Mark The FBI, rather than trying to prevent a terrorist attack, was merely gathering intelligence so they would know who to arrest when a terrorist attack occurred.— Robert Wright - Former FBI agent Given the scope of the tragedy from last week, I am glad to reassure the people of New York and Washington, D.C., that their air is safe to breathe and their water is safe to drink."— Christie Todd Whitman - 9/18/2001
If they are in the basement how did they survive? if it was a controlled demo designed to make the building collapse on its foot print you would have to have the charges set in the basement! Oops on your part.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
The truth to some people is a religion. The truth shall set you free. You should try it sometime.
God is always good! I was planting trees to the southwest of Mt. Saint Helens when it blew. I saw what enormous amounts of energy are required to create pyroclastic flows such as we saw blasting down the canyons of NY streets after the blasts reduced concrete to sand and mixed it with superheated gases. Those debris laden clouds were not and cannot be explained by gravity alone. The were caused by the use of carefully placed ordinance taking the buildings down/ The shear size of the bloom of material from these explosions as well as the lack of remaining steel core which would have been left standing if the floors had pancaked taking the extra time resisting the effect of the debris falling on them which they didn't do. No, this was a demolition of these buildings, done for political and economic gain, pure and simple. Anyone who thinks gravity alone can melt steel, blast apart the foundation, create pyroclastic flows and atomize thing so profoundly only things like pieces of keyboards were found is either living in la la land, or has a vested interest in trying to keep the truth about 9 11 from coming out.
They also don't understand when implosion charges go off it's a low, dull roar, not "kerpow!" like a firecracker. It's a very distinctive sound; I've heard it several times. And true, anyone in a building being imploded would never get out alive.
"We become what we behold. We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." -- Marshall McLuhan, after Alexander Pope and William Blake.
Au contraire, the obviousness of there having had been explosions at and below ground level bodes bad for your fairy tale. There were plenty of rooms and other complex structure allowing some survivors. This firemen who survived the collapse by being in the stair area they were in when the buildings fell prove that.
People in the death zone of Mt. Saint Helens survived as well. That you would resort to such a desperately simplistic and foolish notion that everyone in the entire structure would be killed by the ordinance used is just flat ridiculous.
In your world they would, but not in reality.
God is always good! you don't even know rodriguez' story. Rodriguez heard and felt explosions in the basement a long time before the collapse. then he spent much time helping to get people out of the building. then shortly before the collapse he was up well above ground level and heard/saw evidence of a second explosion. then he got out of the building. then the building collapsed. then he dove under an SUV for cover as debris fell all around. Then he was the last survivor to be dug out. he was un-hurt under the SUV that was completely covered by rubble. There were 15 or so people who were inside one of the buildings at the time of the collapse who did survive due to the fact that between approximately 10'th and 15'th floors a stairwell provided shelter and it did not fall in on them, the debris just fell all around, but did not kill them. one of those survivors was quoted in People magazine as saying she was on the 12'th floor and she saw a big explosion right in front of her. this occurred 10-15 seconds before the collapse began. She went immediately in the stair well after seeing the explosion and survived. another woman was quoted in new york times as saying that a friend of hers inside the building told her via cell phone that he witnessed explosions before the collapse. there is in reality a mountain of evidence of explosions before the collapse. it was even broadcast right on tv - Fox, MSNBC, CNN, etc. their own journalists said they witnessed explosions up & down the building before the collapse. I guess you're still working out your spiel. good luck.
There were other construction workers 3, 4, and 5 sub-basements down, Philip Morelli and others that reported walls blown out, walls exploding and caving in, parking garages blown, machine shops destroyed, 50 ton presses gone. There are "newly discovered" clips of news reporters near the towers before their collapse, that have sharp cracks of explosions on the audio.
Mark The FBI, rather than trying to prevent a terrorist attack, was merely gathering intelligence so they would know who to arrest when a terrorist attack occurred.— Robert Wright - Former FBI agent Given the scope of the tragedy from last week, I am glad to reassure the people of New York and Washington, D.C., that their air is safe to breathe and their water is safe to drink."— Christie Todd Whitman - 9/18/2001
Comments (106 - 275) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest"Can I ask why you think this subgroup has latched on to this complex conspiracy like a religion?"
#66. To: lodwick (#44)
their joints were both bolted AND welded together
#67. To: Ferret Mike (#65)
(Edited)
Why latch onto a story that has been so thoroughly debunked? Anti conspiracy adherence to obvious lies reminds me of membership in a toxic cult.
#68. To: angle, lodwick (#66)
their joints were both bolted AND welded together
#69. To: Destro (#67)
#70. To: Destro (#68)
It would not matter - just 400-500 degrees F would reduce the strength of steel by half.
#71. To: Cynicom (#63)
robin does not think my Uhhhh is a very intelligent answer to anything, think I will tell on her.
#72. To: angle (#69)
you're both shills trying desperately to disrupt any exchange regarding the demolition of the towers and wtc7.
#73. To: Destro (#67)
we accept the possibility - nay the probability of a conspiracy - juts that we discount the demolitions were part of the equation.
#74. To: jessejane (#71)
Now don't go picking on robin.
#75. To: Destro (#67)
"Don't be stupid. You types sound like Catholics who rush to get the flock back in line with the dogma just as dogmatic as the 911 Commission adherents."
"If you read the conversation between yertle and I you would note that we accept the possibility - nay the probability of a conspiracy - just that we discount the demolitions were part of the equation."
#76. To: Cynicom (#74)
People that use the , Uhhhhh. reply are waiting to join the winning or right group, sort of wishy washy.
#77. To: Destro (#72)
"for who when we implicate the govt? maybe for the demolition industry?"
#78. To: What of the explosions in the basement of the towers? (#73)
(Edited)
#79. To: Jethro Tull (#78)
#80. To: Ferret Mike (#75)
You can posture anyway you want, but 9 11 was an inside job, and the buildings were blown up for political and economic reasons.
#81. To: Jethro Tull (#78)
#82. To: Destro (#11)
Gravity throws things downward
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#83. To: angle (#66)
(Edited)
their joints were both bolted AND welded together
#84. To: Cynicom (#12)
"Considering that the buildings fell very nearly within their own footprints, why would anyone intent on destruction and slaughter be so careful, why not arrange to have the building topple so as to kill thousands more and cause widespread destruction".
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#85. To: Ferret Mike (#75)
You can posture anyway you want, but 9 11 was an inside job, and the buildings were blown up for political and economic reasons.
#86. To: Destro (#85)
(Edited)
Ah, the retard theory of 9/11.
#87. To: RickyJ (#84)
But that still doesn't explain how three towers collapsed in near free fall times due to such small fires.
#88. To: Destro (#22)
(Edited)
How do you know the CIA did not back the creation of such video exposes to throw people off track and off balance? to taint the truth movement?
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#89. To: Cynicom (#87)
"Possibility, plausibility and probability"
#90. To: Ferret Mike, TRIPLE MOLE ALERT!!!! (#89)
ULTRA TRIPLE MOLE ALERT!!!!!
#91. To: RickyJ (#82)
Gravity throws?
#92. To: Kamala (#50)
Thermate and nano thermite are the leading candidates because other explosives have chemical "tags" that can be traced to a single source.
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#93. To: Kamala (#90)
"These moles are like poison ivy, ignore and don't scratch it, and it will go away."
#94. To: RickyJ (#88)
But you have to ask yourself why would they want to discredit the notion that the WTC towers were brought down with explosives?
#95. To: Jethro Tull (#78)
I can't square the testimony of William Rodriquez, and others, who were in the basement of the N. tower? when they heard - and felt - explosions. Countless of people were injured and are available for MSM interview at any time. Of course you'll never see them save for the internet. These explosions were before the planes struck, btw. I've listened to liars all my life and nothing in his testimony suggests he isn't telling the truth.
#96. To: RickyJ (#92)
#97. To: christine, Jethro Tull, yertleturtle, Cynicom (#95)
can't square the testimony of William Rodriquez, and others, who were in the basement of the N. tower? when they heard - and felt - explosions.
#98. To: Destro (#64)
Can I ask why you think this subgroup has latched on to this complex conspiracy like a religion?
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#99. To: Destro (#91)
"Ooo, you got me mistyping - the force of gravity throws the building debris off course causing the banana peel effect."
#100. To: Destro (#97)
If they are in the basement how did they survive? if it was a controlled demo designed to make the building collapse on its foot print you would have to have the charges set in the basement!
#101. To: Destro (#97)
"Oops on your part."
#102. To: Destro (#97)
#103. To: Destro (#68)
It would not matter - just 400-500 degrees F would reduce the strength of steel by half.
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#104. To: Destro (#97)
If they are in the basement how did they survive?
#105. To: christine (#95)
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