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Title: View of a Military Expert: Why the Towers of the World Trade Center collapsed
Source:
www.serendipity
URL Source: http://www.serendipity.li/wot/finn/5/soldier5.htm
Published: Oct 22, 2006
Author: anonymous Finn
Post Date: 2006-10-22 12:30:26 by robin
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Keywords: None
Views: 2404
Comments: 275
View of a Military Expert: Why the Towers of the World Trade Center collapsed The airplanes did not a have true effect on the destruction of towers; they were needed to give an excuse for odd Orwellian wars at the same time when the USA is turned into a police nation, like the German Third Reich, to some extent. The towers took the impacts of crushing Boeing 767's. The towers were originally built to take impacts of Boeing 707's, which are approximately of the same size and was widely used in the 1970's. Fires that kindled from the fuel in the planes were too shortlasting and weak to be able to severely damage the structure of the skyscrapers. Even in the extreme situation, the heat from a kerosene fire cannot threat the durability of a steel trunk. With the temperature of carbohydrate fires that reaches only 825 °C (approx. 1517 °F) steel weakens at 800 °C (approx. 1470 °F) and melts at 1585 °C (approx. 2890 °F). In the skyscrapers of the WTC the surroundings were not at all ideal as there were far too many steel columns and they led heat away from the burning area. WTC 1 burned for 102 minutes and WTC 2 for 56 minutes only. A fire burning much longer, from 10 to 20 hours, could slowly increase the burning temperature down to perhaps 1100 °C (approx. 2010 °F). Provided there is more substance to burn, such a fire will damage concrete and irons, but not severely heavy steel constructions. In mid-February in Madrid, the Windsor Tower (see above) burned for over 20 hours, which led to a fire stronger and hotter than that in the WTC, but even the collapses of the Windsor Tower caused by the very strong and long-enduring fire were minimal and limited to the upper floors. If either of the WTC tower had started to collapse because of fires the collapse would have been limited to only a few of the floors and then stopped. The impossibility of a gravitational collapse is closer seen in other documents. A collapse would produce large pieces, and does not explain reports of fine dust from concrete, huge amounts of dust and pieces of steel ejected outwards. Destruction of the towers by explosions is clear according to the photographs and reports of the eye witnesses. In the picture below, a range of cutting charges have just exploded in the down left sector and a typical white cloud is formed outwards from the wall. Down right, explosions are seen as well. Even a flame is seen. In video tapes taken of the so-called collapses of the WTC, more explosions of these cutting charges can be seen. The explosions advance quickly, with a gap of a couple of floors, cutting the strong steel pillars in the outer wall. The explosions are timed so that it appears that the tower collapses occur in the same timing as in a gravitational collapse. The explosions are not completely synchronized in timing, probably a few charges are triggered by radio, and other charges explode out of the impulses of one of these charges (infrared, pressure wave). More challenging problems to the demolition men, however, were the central cores of the buildings and the 47 steel pillars more robust than the ones on the outer rounds. The pillars of the central cores were made of steel even 100 + 100 mm thick, thicker than the side armours of a battle tank. Cutting those, even with explosives, is extremely difficult. One would need to surround the whole pillars, every single pillar on every floor intended to get blasted, with powerful cutting charges. These charges would have needed to be placed in such a way that the users of the skyscrapers could not notice these preparations. As seen in the following pictures, the cores of the towers were not distracted by thousands of powerful cutting charges but by a modern thermonuclear explosive, a small hydrogen bomb. In the picture below, a hydrogen bomb explosion, the bomb having been placed in the cellar and directed to the core, has reached the roof of the tower and the upper parts of the outer walls. On its way up the waves of fire pressure partially penetrated about 100 floors of concrete and steel. Over ten million degrees of heat caused by a hydrogen bomb sublimised all water within the concrete in a moment. Water exploded extremely quickly into 24-fold volume and totally pulverized the concrete. Even people and computers that were in the buildings disappeared turning into heat and light. That is why almost nothing of them was found in the ruins. Burning radiation is absorbed in steel so quickly that steel heats up immediately over its melting point 1585 °C (approx. 2890 °F) and above its boiling point around 3000 C (approx. 5430 °F). In the pictures down below, super hot groups of steel pillars and columns, torn from wall by pressure wave, are sublimized. They immediately turn into a vaporized form, binding heat as quickly as possible. Bursts upwards, even visible in the picture below, are not possible for a gravitational collapse or for cutting charges which are used horizontally. In the upper picture the explosion is in theory 100 times stronger than in the picture below, but in practice the difference is only four times due to the capability of direction of the small hydrogen bomb. In the picture at the right, the brown shades caused by a hydrogen bomb are seen, while the top of the tower that is already collapsing is breaking down and the posture straightens up as the hydrogen bomb pulverized the core and it lost all its resistance. The piles point the blasts of the cutting charges. (Gehue plate 12) Extremely hot, sublimating pieces are not created with many methods. For comparison, pictures of subterranean nuclear explosions where the explosion is blasting onto surface and into the air: Ess1.2 Kt WTC 2 Banberry 10 Kt underground Radioactivity in air creates shades of brown. (The subterranean nuke in the picture on the right is 10 times stronger than the small nuke on the left.) This is the reason why the FBI did not search the crime scene. Ground zeros of nuclear weapons are a health risk and belong to the FEMA. Poster Comment: For the rest of this: Writings of a Finnish Military Expert on 9/11 Writings of a Finnish Military Expert on 9/11 Written in spring 2005, a modestly language-corrected version Corrected by another person than the original author. The photographs attached in this non-profit distribution are for securing volatile, important evidence on 9/11 for discussion and education. Author hereby grants full permission to reproduce the drawing 'The Bombs in the WTC' and his writings. You are encouraged to mail, publish and mass produce these documents or your enhanced versions of them. Due to concerns for his personal safety, the author has chosen to remain anonymous. And a glance at some of what he's fighting for (to keep it fair and balanced): 
Storax Sedan 104 Kt shallow underground
Steel pillars are turned into dust. 
The author has chosen to remain anonymous so I'll post this photo of a Finnish soldier. Why? Well because I like looking at Finns, even with green faces.
/9_11/$FILE/9_11.jpg)
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#1. To: robin (#0)
Uhhhhhhhhhh...
Hey, he might be. What do you find wrong with his conclusions? BTW, there are other links I listed above the silly photos.
Uhhhhhhhhh.
Do you really believe the official govt story about how the towers "pancaked" and fell?
Well, Uhhhh is about the most intelligent offering I have. I failed structural engineering but I do not buy that there was extensive termite damage. I could have just given you a ping but there is no humor in that.
Sorry to hear you actually believe the govt version over the Laws of Physics. Have you viewed any of the 9/11 videos?
Have you viewed any of the 9/11 videos? Sorry to hear you actually believe the govt version over the Laws of Physics. Here I am trying to be helpful and am chastised for my effort. I believe NOTHING the government tells me but I did do rather well in physics. For instance, the law of gravity as discerned by Sir Isaac ruled at 9/11. Videos??? Many.. Have listened to endless "experts" from all sides of the argument. When anyone finally drags some poor soul in front of the cameras and he says, "I did it", I will be eager to listen.
Is that not what the second picture from the top looks like? You say - explosives did that? How did the wires and detonation initiating devices survive the fire to allow them to be set off? And if they did plant explosives they were damn good in placing the explosive charges just where the plane hit to make it seem the plane did it.. Occam's Razor tares that argument a new ream hole.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Okay, so what do you believe, if you don't believe the govt and you did well in physics? Let's just take the speed at which the buildings fell. Well documented from a variety of sources. I mean no disrespect, I hope you know that. BTW, there are a few new 9/11 videos that are better at explaining this than others. If you should want those links, I can post them.
You still haven't answered any of the questions I asked on the other thread. The speed at which the towers fell, the center core not still standing, the buildings falling within their own footprint, the squibs, Larry Silverstein's remark to "pull it", the odd activity reported by surviving tenants prior to 9/11, etc.
I did - you did not like the answer. In fact I proposed several theories - some very much implicating the govt - you on the other hand are a bot, robin. Americans on forums tend to be 'bots - some are pro bush-bots others are bots for other causes. The govt may very well be connected to 9/11 - but I discount the nutty notion of demolition charges in addition to plane strikes being the reason for the fall of the towers. In your nutty mind that is not enough. In fact to your nutty mind I must be pro govt even when I say the govt may be responsible somehow for the events of 9/11!! You strike me as a person who would be perfect for the inquisition - it is not enough you accept there is a god but that you view god like I view god. You mention you do not agree that the towers fell top down - then you provide a photo showing the top o f the tower falling down first - and you posted lots of pictures showing the structure tear itself apart from the top down. If you won't accept that the picture we are both looking at shows a top to down fall then we can never come to an agreement - it seems you types try and shoe horn all evidence into your notion. Gravity throws things downward - no surprise that the building would fall like a peeling banana - down with an arc. Not exactly a fall on the footprint. But I understand - America does not produce the brightest of people these days - which is probably why they elected a president that speaks his mind on a grade school level.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
What do I believe??? I saw what others saw. Aircraft hit the towers, resulting in a breaching of structural integrity, the law of gravity took over and down they came. One structural engineer posed the following question. "Considering that the buildings fell very nearly within their own footprints, why would anyone intent on destruction and slaughter be so careful, why not arrange to have the building topple so as to kill thousands more and cause widespread destruction"... There was no rebuttal.
So now you are dishonest too. No, you did not answer my questions. You did not answer how the buildings fell at the rate of a free fall w/o demolitions. You did not answer why the center core was not still standing if the buildings fell because they "pancaked" (there are no floors in the steel center core). You did not answer to any satisfaction or credibility why Larry Silverstein said to "pull it" for WTC7. Nor why only his buildings fell that day. Nor how he made so much $$ on the whole deal. That was a 3 part question.
I believe the belief in impossible conspiracies is a poison, one that will damage people for the rest of their lives. I know people out there who have been obsessed for almost 45 years over the Kennedy murder. So what if they prove there were three shooters, or his own driver shot him? What will they live for after that? What kind of life is that?
"We become what we behold. We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." -- Marshall McLuhan, after Alexander Pope and William Blake.
You heard the govt version and believed it. A govt structural engineer. Not one could explain, nor tried to explain why the center core was not still standing. Furthermore, in a pancake theory, the floor beneath would not be removed BEFORE the floor above hit it, allowing for a rate of speed that is free fall. This was a planned demolition. That is the only way buildings fall this way. One structural engineer posed the following question. "Considering that the buildings fell very nearly within their own footprints, why would anyone intent on destruction and slaughter be so careful, why not arrange to have the building topple so as to kill thousands more and cause widespread destruction"... There was no rebuttal. Planned demolitions fall into their own footprints. The goal was "a new Pearl Harbor" per Dov Zakheim in the PNAC document written in the '90s. They got it. They planned for it and they got it. Why didn't they set off a huge nuclear explosion for that matter? Why not blow up all of NYC? Why not blow up Tel-Aviv?
you wouldn't be asking those questions, Destro, if you really watched 911 Mysteries: Demolitions. oh, but that's right, you explained it all here: "they failed because they were softened by the fire. Steel turns to wet noodles in fire"
When it comes to heroes, Renegades are mine..
Conspiracies do exist..However they have bounds. Anytime we have a "GRAND" conspiricy however, the number of people involved is very small and tightly controlled. For 9/11 to have been one is believable, that goes without saying. However, for the mechanics of this scheme to be carried out would include untold numbers of "little" people with no interest in the plot. To date not one little person has come forward. Not one.
Prove it. Or did you mean near freefall speeds?
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
I saw what happened same as everyone else. The law of gravity ruled.
What kind of life is there in swallowing everything the govt tells you, without question? What kind of life is there for someone to deny the Laws of Physics because the govt tells them they don't matter anymore? That what they saw is not what they saw on 9/11? To paraphrase Burkeman1 this morning, If Tony Snow got up and said the sun now rises in the west and sets in the east, there are people who would just accept it.
The law of gravity does not allow for free fall speed w/o explosives removing the floor beneath each floor falling.
Who says I have not? How do you know the CIA did not back the creation of such video exposes to throw people off track and off balance? to taint the truth movement? Like using UFOs as a way to hide and explain experimental secret airplane testing and so on.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
In one conversation I heard the term of "weight compression" being used. Being not too bright, I kept my mouth closed so as to not show my ignorance. I did gather it had too do with weight of one floor being lowered to the one below and overstressing the structure.
Watch the videos, they explain it all with high school physics, the camera footage and graphs. There are many good sources of information on the web. But you don't really want to know. http://www.serendipity.li/wot/pop_mech/reply_to_popular_mechanics.htm That's the "pancake" theory. It doesn't work well with the speeds attained. WTC7 is really glaringly so. Unfortunately, there was a steel core that had no flooring. Yet it all came down too. No one govt even tries to explain that. And that Popular Science explanation written by the cousin of DHS Michael Chertoff, what a joke! The best part is, he tried to deny any connection at first. These people are all idiots. I'm convinced of it. And their arrogance allows them to believe they are actually smarter than the rest of us. Nothing could be further from the truth. They are all devoid of any morals that's all.
There are conspiracies. Roosevelt conspired to bring the U.S. into WWII. But the idea of a bunch of evil psychopathic geniuses pulling off an impossibly complex conspiracy like 9-11....it belongs in a cartoon, not in the realm of serious discussion.
"We become what we behold. We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." -- Marshall McLuhan, after Alexander Pope and William Blake.
If the intent was to bring it down within its own footprint, and cause minimal damage, I wonder why they did not blast two corners low down and topple the entire structure and really spread the destruction? Remember death and destruction was their goal?
There were no "litle people" involved with the Pearl Harbor thing. The death and destruction was left for the Japanese. Only the instigation came from the conspiritors.
Why didn't they hit several buildings throughout the city and really overwhelm the police, fire and rescue crews? If they were incredibly brilliant psychopathic geniuses it should have been a cinch. Blast Wall Street, blast the IRS, hit the White House with three planes (don't forget the explosives planted in the White House)...the possibilities are endless!
"We become what we behold. We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." -- Marshall McLuhan, after Alexander Pope and William Blake.
Good question, but with the 47 interior columns, I don't know that your plan would have achieved the desired result - but I'm not an engineer or demolition expert. After viewing the Finn's bomb photo comparisons, I find his theory compelling.
Was it? Or just a big event, a "new Pearl Harbor" as PNAC wanted. To bring down these buildings in this way accomplished that, gave Larry Silverstein an extremely handsome profit, also allowed him to avoid the expensive demolition required for buildings with asbestos. These buildings were operating at a loss according to the Port Authority. Only Larry's buildings fell that day. Others were damaged. This was catastrophic enough. And so dramatic. All demolitions are.
And who profited from the Pentagon attack? That cost taxpayers a billion dollars. Or was that and the other aircraft diversions?
The NeoSheviks have been robbing the US Treasury like there's no tomorrow. While Dov Zakheim was Comptroller of the Pentagon upwards of $3 trillion went missing. On 9/10/01 the day before 9/11, Rumsfeld held a news conference about the missing trillions under Zakheim's watch. The next morning the section of the Pentagon where the auditors work is demolished, along with a lot of important papers and computers and people. http://benfrank.net/patriots/news/national/pentagon_missing_trillions http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2003/05/18/MN251738.DTL Also it was the spot that had just been renovated: http://killtown.blogspot.com/2005/11/where-pentagon-was-hit.html http://www.onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_1047.shtml
A mass murder to cover up a massive heist?? In the movies, it's usually the other way around. Calling Perry Mason...
But Sam Danner, a poster here said it was a drone not a piloted aircraft. He was a "witness". How could a drone possibly pick out the right section?
Sam Danner was banned. He is not a well person. And a drone, a missile or a piloted jet could easily have targeted the correct section, as you well know.
There may have been a heist too. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Center http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/gold.html But the real purpose was the one stated in a PNAC report, a "new Pearl Harbor". Cui Bono? Well, that's where we come to greater Israel. Don't forget the 5 dancing Israelis videotaping the fall of the towers. And never forget Dick Cheney's offshore accounts.
What kind of life is there for someone to deny the Laws of Physics because the govt tells them they don't matter anymore? I don't believe anything the government tells me. You have used "the Laws of Physics" so often, and capitalized it every time, that it is clear to me you know nothing about them.
"We become what we behold. We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." -- Marshall McLuhan, after Alexander Pope and William Blake.
Are you of the "wet noodle" theory that Destro holds to? http://srikant.org/core/phy11sep.html Laws of Physics : A Primer Belal E. Baaquie Core Curriculum National University of Singapore (corbeb@nus.edu.sg)
I was raised in a steel mill town and understand steel a lot better then you do. Heat doesn't turn steel into wet noodles. It just weakens it. I'll give you another hint as to what happened. Steel joints in buildings aren't welded; they're riveted. And those joints pop loose. I've seen medium-sized tornadoes bend steel I-beams and pop the joints loose. Wind, not 20 tons of flying metal, going over 300 mph, loaded with over 10,000 gallons of jet fuel.
"We become what we behold. We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." -- Marshall McLuhan, after Alexander Pope and William Blake.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/9-11_wtc_videos.html "Never before in history has a steel high rise building collapsed simply because of fire. On 9/11, by coincidence, three such buildings collapsed in ten to fifteen seconds, almost freefall speed. In other words, if you dropped a brick from the top of the World Trade Center it would have taken about that time to hit the ground." The NIST/FEMA/SILVERSTEIN/ASCE/911 COMMISSION reports are mostly fiction with very little truth, research, and science. These "reports" are cartoon comic books to provide a cover for the pre conceived conclusion paid by for by the feds. NIST states that the "impacts" and "pancaking" didn't cause the collapse of 1, 2. NIST doesn't explain how asymmetrical damage and asymmetrical fire caused 2 towers to fall exactly symmetrical. NIST never explains how 480 degree girder heat exposure causes "probabable" collapse initiation". NIST never explains how streams of molten iron occured from jet fuel. NIST never explains how steel was evaporated. NIST never explains how the fireproofing was "stripped" clean of all girders and trusses. NIST never explains how 1,000's and 1,000's and 1,000's of girders, trusses and couplings all fail at once to have the towers fall at 1/7th of a second per floor. NIST never explains what type of computer software was used to generate the theories it has came up with. NIST never explains why it could never duplicate any of its claims when live scale floor loads and models were built. Where is NISTS', independent of government employees, peer reviewed report? NISTS' entire report is a criminal cover up.
Mark The FBI, rather than trying to prevent a terrorist attack, was merely gathering intelligence so they would know who to arrest when a terrorist attack occurred.— Robert Wright - Former FBI agent Given the scope of the tragedy from last week, I am glad to reassure the people of New York and Washington, D.C., that their air is safe to breathe and their water is safe to drink."— Christie Todd Whitman - 9/18/2001
According to one of the design engineers of the towers, their joints were both bolted AND welded together - those buildings were engineered to take two hits, simultaneously, from the largest civilian plane of the day, Boeing 707's.
This is a bad article. There were no H-bombs used on 911.
Mark The FBI, rather than trying to prevent a terrorist attack, was merely gathering intelligence so they would know who to arrest when a terrorist attack occurred.— Robert Wright - Former FBI agent Given the scope of the tragedy from last week, I am glad to reassure the people of New York and Washington, D.C., that their air is safe to breathe and their water is safe to drink."— Christie Todd Whitman - 9/18/2001
I try to give the benefit of the doubt. Innocent until proven guilty. I once believed the govt official version of 9/11. I try to remember that.
!! Welllllllll....
It's just a theory. I hope we can examine them all. You like the thermite theory? Which article (not video) do you think explains it best?
NISTS own report backs away from the couplings failing. All the reports involved in 911 contradict each other. The interesting thing is the same government "engineers" worked and put together all the reports.
Mark The FBI, rather than trying to prevent a terrorist attack, was merely gathering intelligence so they would know who to arrest when a terrorist attack occurred.— Robert Wright - Former FBI agent Given the scope of the tragedy from last week, I am glad to reassure the people of New York and Washington, D.C., that their air is safe to breathe and their water is safe to drink."— Christie Todd Whitman - 9/18/2001
I pretty much stick with Jim Hoffman, Steven Jones, Kevin Ryan, Jeff King, Gordon Ross. Thermate and nano thermite are the leading candidates because other explosives have chemical "tags" that can be traced to a single source.
Mark The FBI, rather than trying to prevent a terrorist attack, was merely gathering intelligence so they would know who to arrest when a terrorist attack occurred.— Robert Wright - Former FBI agent Given the scope of the tragedy from last week, I am glad to reassure the people of New York and Washington, D.C., that their air is safe to breathe and their water is safe to drink."— Christie Todd Whitman - 9/18/2001
I sent a link to Joyce Riley at the PowerHour: we'll see if she or Dave mentions it. This would be one heck of a lot easier done than placing all the thermite/thermate that would have been needed. That said, there was strategic placement of the cutting charges, as Steven Jones has outlined for us.
thanks BTW, the Dr. Stephen Jones links I tried (the BYU ones), don't work anymore. (sigh)
What station time for that program? I don't listen to these programs really, but I know I should.
Nano thermite is around 1000% more powerful than conventional demo explosives. I don't think it took as much as we imagine. I also think 911 was going to happen no matter what. It was in the planning much before this current administration.
Mark The FBI, rather than trying to prevent a terrorist attack, was merely gathering intelligence so they would know who to arrest when a terrorist attack occurred.— Robert Wright - Former FBI agent Given the scope of the tragedy from last week, I am glad to reassure the people of New York and Washington, D.C., that their air is safe to breathe and their water is safe to drink."— Christie Todd Whitman - 9/18/2001
You knew when smirk finally allowed the commission to happen and his first choice for the chair was HeinzKissinger, things would not go well for the truth.
http://www.gnclive.com from 7 - 10am CDT - you might have to roll out of the rack a bit early to catch the entire program.
I take make audio research tapes and take them with me while I drive my truck around while I'm working. I also listen to archived research while surfing. I have forgotten more about 911 than these three moles will ever know. View of a Military Expert:
#2. To: Cynicom (#1)
(Edited)
#3. To: robin (#2)
What do you find wrong with his conclusions?
#4. To: Cynicom (#3)
#5. To: robin (#4)
Do you really believe the official govt story about how the towers "pancaked" and fell?
#6. To: Cynicom (#5)
#7. To: robin (#6)
Sorry to hear you actually believe the govt version over the Laws of Physics.
#8. To: robin, Cynicom (#4)
Do you really believe the official govt story about how the towers "pancaked" and fell?
#9. To: Cynicom (#7)
#10. To: Destro (#8)
#11. To: robin, Cynicom (#10)
You still haven't answered any of the questions I asked on the other thread.
#12. To: robin (#9)
Okay, so what do you believe, if you don't believe the govt and you did well in physics?
#13. To: Destro (#11)
#14. To: Cynicom (#12)
I saw what others saw. Aircraft hit the towers, resulting in a breaching of structural integrity, the law of gravity took over and down they came.
#15. To: Cynicom (#12)
(Edited)
#16. To: Destro (#8)
#17. To: YertleTurtle (#14)
What kind of life is that?
#18. To: robin (#13)
You did not answer how the buildings fell at the rate of a free fall w/o demolitions.
#19. To: robin (#15)
You heard the govt version and believed it.
#20. To: YertleTurtle, Burkeman1 (#14)
#21. To: Cynicom (#19)
#22. To: christine (#16)
you wouldn't be asking those questions, Destro, if you really watched 911 Mysteries: Demolitions. oh, but that's right, you explained it all here:
#23. To: robin (#0)
Compelling photographic evidence - thanks for this one.
#24. To: robin (#21)
The law of gravity does not allow for free fall speed w/o explosives removing the floor beneath each floor falling.
#25. To: Destro (#18)
#26. To: Cynicom (#24)
#27. To: Cynicom (#17)
Conspiracies do exist..However they have bounds.
#28. To: robin (#26)
That's the "pancake" theory.
#29. To: YertleTurtle (#27)
Roosevelt conspired to bring the U.S. into WWII.
#30. To: Cynicom (#28)
If the intent was to bring it down within its own footprint, and cause minimal damage, I wonder why they did not blast two corners low down and topple the entire structure and really spread the destruction?
#31. To: Cynicom (#28)
I wonder why they did not blast two corners low down and topple the entire structure and really spread the destruction?
#32. To: Cynicom (#28)
Remember death and destruction was their goal?
#33. To: robin (#32)
To bring down these buildings in this way accomplished that, gave Larry Silverstein an extremely handsome profit, also allowed him to avoid the expensive demolition required for buildings with asbestos.
#34. To: Cynicom (#33)
#35. To: Cynicom (#33)
Or was that and the other aircraft diversions?
#36. To: robin (#34)
The next morning the section of the Pentagon where the auditors work is demolished, along with a lot of important papers and computers and peopl
#37. To: Cynicom (#36)
#38. To: jessejane, Cynicom (#35)
#39. To: robin (#20)
(Edited)
What kind of life is there in swallowing everything the govt tells you, without question?
#40. To: YertleTurtle (#39)
(Edited)
#41. To: robin (#40)
(Edited)
Are you of the "wet noodle" theory that Destro holds to?
#42. To: YertleTurtle (#41)
(Edited)
#43. To: christine, Robin, TRIPLE MOLE ALERT!!!! (#16)
Why are you two wasting your time with these posters?
#44. To: YertleTurtle (#41)
Steel joints in buildings aren't welded; they're riveted. And those joints pop loose.
#45. To: robin (#0)
#46. To: Kamala (#43)
#47. To: robin (#38)
There may have been a heist too.
#48. To: Kamala (#45)
(Edited)
#49. To: lodwick (#44)
#50. To: robin (#48)
(Edited)
#51. To: robin (#48)
It's just a theory. I hope we can examine them all.
#52. To: Kamala (#50)
I pretty much stick with Jim Hoffman, Steven Jones, Kevin Ryan, Jeff King, Gordon Ross.
#53. To: lodwick (#51)
#54. To: lodwick (#51)
#55. To: Kamala (#49)
The interesting thing is the same government "engineers" worked and put together all the reports.
#56. To: robin (#53)
The Power Hour
#57. To: robin (#52)
(Edited)
I know this is alot of reading and listening.
http://www.gunsandbutter.net/archives.php
http://www.911blogger.com/2006/06/presentatio n- by-kevin-ryan-from.html
http://worldtradecentertruth.com/volume /200609/ DrJonesTalksatISUPhysicsDepartment.pdf
http://www.wtc7.net/articles/stevenjone s_b7.htm l
http ://www.journalof911studies.com/
Mark
The FBI, rather than trying to prevent a terrorist attack, was merely gathering intelligence so they would know who to arrest when a terrorist attack occurred.— Robert Wright - Former FBI agent
Given the scope of the tragedy from last week, I am glad to reassure the people of New York and Washington, D.C., that their air is safe to breathe and their water is safe to drink."— Christie Todd Whitman - 9/18/2001
#58. To: lodwick (#55)
Philip Zelakow(SP) was even more a worse choice for the truth. We might as well as had the 911 Commission held in the white house itself.
Mark
The FBI, rather than trying to prevent a terrorist attack, was merely gathering intelligence so they would know who to arrest when a terrorist attack occurred.— Robert Wright - Former FBI agent
Given the scope of the tragedy from last week, I am glad to reassure the people of New York and Washington, D.C., that their air is safe to breathe and their water is safe to drink."— Christie Todd Whitman - 9/18/2001
#59. To: Kamala (#43)
NIST doesn't explain how asymmetrical damage and asymmetrical fire caused 2 towers to fall exactly symmetrical.
#60. To: robin (#46)
Uhhhhhhhhhh... I take a nap every afternoon.
I try to give the benefit of the doubt. Innocent until proven guilty.
#61. To: jessejane (#35)
Uhhhhhhhhh...
A mass murder to cover up a massive heist??
#62. To: Cynicom (#61)
I was thinking the same thing.
Uhhhhhhhhh...
#63. To: jessejane (#62)
robin does not think my Uhhhh is a very intelligent answer to anything, think I will tell on her. hehehehehe
I was thinking the same thing.
#64. To: YertleTurtle (#27)
But the idea of a bunch of evil psychopathic geniuses pulling off an impossibly complex conspiracy like 9-11....it belongs in a cartoon, not in the realm of serious discussion. Can I ask why you think this subgroup has latched on to this complex conspiracy like a religion?
There are conspiracies. Roosevelt conspired to bring the U.S. into WWII.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#65. To: Destro (#64)
Why latch onto a story that has been so thoroughly debunked? Anti conspiracy adherence to obvious lies reminds me of membership in a toxic cult. I would say the only ones in it are the truly clueless of shills trying to prop up the wilting patchwork of lies that the official story is.
"Can I ask why you think this subgroup has latched on to this complex conspiracy like a religion?"
#66. To: lodwick (#44)
Stop trying to confuse him with the facts or the "Laws of Physics". lol. He's good for a laugh and an insight into a shill, but he's not intelligent enough for a good waste of time.
their joints were both bolted AND welded together
#67. To: Ferret Mike (#65) (Edited)
Don't be stupid. You types sound like Catholics who rush to get the flock back in line with the dogma just as dogmatic as the 911 Commission adherents. If you read the conversation between yertle and I you would note that we accept the possibility - nay the probability of a conspiracy - just that we discount the demolitions were part of the equation. Read it again slow and easy.
Why latch onto a story that has been so thoroughly debunked? Anti conspiracy adherence to obvious lies reminds me of membership in a toxic cult.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#68. To: angle, lodwick (#66)
It would not matter - just 400-500 degrees F would reduce the strength of steel by half. "Laws of Physics".
their joints were both bolted AND welded together
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#69. To: Destro (#67)
Who cares what you and yertle turle accept the possibility of? IMO, you're both shills trying desperately to disrupt any exchange regarding the demolition of the towers and wtc7. You're time and energy wasters. The demolitions of the towers are a given. Your continual harping on what is common knowledge is tiresome. The truth will out. Give it up.
#70. To: Destro (#68)
"Laws of Physics". absolute distortion
It would not matter - just 400-500 degrees F would reduce the strength of steel by half.
#71. To: Cynicom (#63)
Now don't go picking on robin. She might not know your sense of humor... :)
robin does not think my Uhhhh is a very intelligent answer to anything, think I will tell on her.
#72. To: angle (#69)
for who when we implicate the govt? maybe for the demolition industry? lol
you're both shills trying desperately to disrupt any exchange regarding the demolition of the towers and wtc7.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#73. To: Destro (#67)
Agreed
we accept the possibility - nay the probability of a conspiracy - juts that we discount the demolitions were part of the equation.
#74. To: jessejane (#71)
People that use the , Uhhhhh. reply are waiting to join the winning or right group, sort of wishy washy.
Now don't go picking on robin.
#75. To: Destro (#67)
Interesting spin, but one of wishful thinking that debunks your efforts, not my belief system. Your choice, I came late and reluctantly to my conclusions regarding this obvious demolition and conspiracy to do do this. I was long a skeptic of this line of thought, but anyone who conscientiously and thoroughly looks at the evidence knows better then to give the official story anything more then a disdainful brush of. It fits in too well with the needs and wants of both the Bushies and the building's owners who had an expensive white elephant removed as well as the Bushies getting their Pearl Harbor effect. You can posture anyway you want, but 9 11 was an inside job, and the buildings were blown up for political and economic reasons. To think otherwise? Don't be so stupid.
"Don't be stupid. You types sound like Catholics who rush to get the flock back in line with the dogma just as dogmatic as the 911 Commission adherents."
"If you read the conversation between yertle and I you would note that we accept the possibility - nay the probability of a conspiracy - just that we discount the demolitions were part of the equation."
#76. To: Cynicom (#74)
I know what happened the last time I asked you to pick wishy or washy.. I'm not going to repeat that mistake. :) Turns out, both can be right.
People that use the , Uhhhhh. reply are waiting to join the winning or right group, sort of wishy washy.
#77. To: Destro (#72)
The administration of GW Bush is guilty of the murder of thousands and the destruction if billions of dollars worth of infrastructure in allowing the aircraft hijacking and using the confusion and damage to permit them to blow up these buildings. We go after the self implicated for justice. Now, what's so hard to understand about that?
"for who when we implicate the govt? maybe for the demolition industry?"
#78. To: What of the explosions in the basement of the towers? (#73) (Edited)
I can't square the testimony of William Rodriquez, and others, who were in the basement of the N. tower? when they heard - and felt - explosions. Countless of people were injured and are available for MSM interview at any time. Of course you'll never see them save for the internet. These explosions were before the planes struck, btw. I've listened to liars all my life and nothing in his testimony suggests he isn't telling the truth.
#79. To: Jethro Tull (#78)
Why, obviously there was a precision earthquake at that moment, and a Uri Geller hard at work making steel melt and bending spoons. Amazing how people can look at the unexplainable by any stretch of the construct of the official story and pretend that what is obvious happened, did not happen.
#80. To: Ferret Mike (#75)
Short, sweet, correct. Well done, Mike.
You can posture anyway you want, but 9 11 was an inside job, and the buildings were blown up for political and economic reasons.
#81. To: Jethro Tull (#78)
Rick Siegel, a NYC Jew recorded them on video from Hoboken and Sinatra piers. He was made to leave the first pier because he was told that wounded would be taken there. But there never really were any large #s of wounded. His 9/11 Eyewitness video removes the time delay for the distance and there were several explosions before each tower fell. Also, the helicopters visible just before. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3498980438587461603
#82. To: Destro (#11)
But I understand - America does not produce the brightest of people these days Neither does the country you are from. Gravity throws? Without gravity there wouldn't even be a concept of up and down.
Gravity throws things downward
God is always good!
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#83. To: angle (#66) (Edited)
Surface welds, ones that won't even stop a tornardo. I suggest you spend your life trying to prove there were explosives in the towers, remote-controlled airplanes, all that crap. you'll waste your life trying to prove that which did not happen. I'll enjoy it. By the way, the real shills are the one who believe in impossibly complex cartoon conspiracies. Say hi to Dr. Evil to me. You believe in him, too, right?
their joints were both bolted AND welded together
"We become what we behold. We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." -- Marshall McLuhan, after Alexander Pope and William Blake.
#84. To: Cynicom (#12)
OK, that is a good point. But that still doesn't explain how three towers collapsed in near free fall times due to such small fires. Yes they had damage from the planes, but they were designed to take such damage from planes comparable to the planes that struck them and WTC7 suffered no damage from any plane.
"Considering that the buildings fell very nearly within their own footprints, why would anyone intent on destruction and slaughter be so careful, why not arrange to have the building topple so as to kill thousands more and cause widespread destruction".
God is always good!
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#85. To: Ferret Mike (#75)
Ah, the retard theory of 9/11.
You can posture anyway you want, but 9 11 was an inside job, and the buildings were blown up for political and economic reasons.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#86. To: Destro (#85) (Edited)
Ah the disrupt the obvious complete with an ad hominem hoping to piss me off ploy.
Ah, the retard theory of 9/11.
#87. To: RickyJ (#84)
I use the 3P approach to something I have no knowledge of. Possibility, plausibility and probability Were the buildings "blown" down???? Possible but highly unlikely. Is such a scenario plausible? A stretch of the imagination to give it any credibility. Finally is such probable???? Very doubtful. To someone that has no knowledge of the event, the negatives are the indicators.
But that still doesn't explain how three towers collapsed in near free fall times due to such small fires.
#88. To: Destro (#22) (Edited)
They very well could have. There are some glaring errors of fact in that video even though for the most part it is very good. I could see the CIA or Mossad doing something like this. Mixing the truth with just enough absurd lies to discredit the whole thing. But you have to ask yourself why would they want to discredit the notion that the WTC towers were brought down with explosives? For what reason would they possibly do this? I can think of only one logical reason: they want to discredit the notion that the WTC towers were brought down with explosives because that is exactly what happened.
How do you know the CIA did not back the creation of such video exposes to throw people off track and off balance? to taint the truth movement?
God is always good!
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#89. To: Cynicom (#87)
The analysis showing this was indeed an explosive take down of these building with strange and implausible things happening from the foundation on up put the three 'P's on the side of the notion that this was a take down for economic and political purposes. These are people whose shadow government has done things in the past like kill Kennedy and felled governments and started wars toward a coherent end, and they are quite skilled in developing plausible denial that they did not take the towers down. Even the incredulity regarding what they did is a factor they correctly feels works to there advantage. There is no way those jets took those buildings down, no way they caused the explosions in the basement, no way they melted steel. 9 11 was an inside job, and Bush and company are going to go down for that they did in New York and Washington, D.C.
"Possibility, plausibility and probability"
#90. To: Ferret Mike, TRIPLE MOLE ALERT!!!! (#89)
Mike, please do yourself a favor, move on, These moles are like poison ivy, ignore and don't scratch it, and it will go away.
ULTRA TRIPLE MOLE ALERT!!!!!
Mark
The FBI, rather than trying to prevent a terrorist attack, was merely gathering intelligence so they would know who to arrest when a terrorist attack occurred.— Robert Wright - Former FBI agent
Given the scope of the tragedy from last week, I am glad to reassure the people of New York and Washington, D.C., that their air is safe to breathe and their water is safe to drink."— Christie Todd Whitman - 9/18/2001
#91. To: RickyJ (#82)
Ooo, you got me mistyping - the force of gravity throws the building debris off course causing the banana peel effect. The acceleration due to gravity is 9.8 m/s^2, or 32.2 ft/s^2.
Gravity throws?
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#92. To: Kamala (#50)
No real investigation was even allowed. People were arrested for only taking pictures of ground zero. By controlling the "investigation", they didn't really care that any evidence could ever lead back to them. No one would ever get a chance to see such evidence. Imagine, putting GPS transmitters on dump trucks hauling debris away from ground zero. They were protecting the evidence like it was gold and only letting choice individuals to have any access whatsoever to it in a very limited capacity. Since there was no real investigation, and they knew there wouldn’t be since they had key people in power in on the plan, they wouldn’t have been afraid to have used any explosive they deemed necessary to achieve the desired effect. It was a made for TV event for sure. They wanted everyone in America seeing this on their TV screens to gain the support for the takeover of the Middle East that they have long planned.
Thermate and nano thermite are the leading candidates because other explosives have chemical "tags" that can be traced to a single source.
God is always good!
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#93. To: Kamala (#90)
Thanks, perhaps I will after dealing with the obviously flawed arguments they have the misfortune to be stuck with. I have the time right now, and I've dealt with people like this for many long years in forum. Your words are noted and I wouldn't worry. I am not baffled nor baited easily at all.
"These moles are like poison ivy, ignore and don't scratch it, and it will go away."
#94. To: RickyJ (#88)
You don't get it - the theory of demolition charges is a honey trap - so delicious a scenario people will waste their time and resources trying to prove that and ignore any real conspiracy. Sort of how they used UFO's as a cover story to explain away secret X planes. People spent decades looking for little green men and ignored the black budget that finances the development of all these toys our military plays with.
But you have to ask yourself why would they want to discredit the notion that the WTC towers were brought down with explosives?
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#95. To: Jethro Tull (#78)
my favorite post on the thread
I can't square the testimony of William Rodriquez, and others, who were in the basement of the N. tower? when they heard - and felt - explosions. Countless of people were injured and are available for MSM interview at any time. Of course you'll never see them save for the internet. These explosions were before the planes struck, btw. I've listened to liars all my life and nothing in his testimony suggests he isn't telling the truth.
#96. To: RickyJ (#92)
I agree Rick to a point. The dust has traces of a plastic molecule that could be tied to a sol-gel compound. In a airport warehouse is sitting girders and molten slag/meteorites that has been "saved". All that is needed is multiple independent tests on this evidence. The thermate and nano thermite are perfect because of no tags, thermate is quiet, and can cut girders without the extra numerous cracks of high explosives, and is very powerful.
Mark
The FBI, rather than trying to prevent a terrorist attack, was merely gathering intelligence so they would know who to arrest when a terrorist attack occurred.— Robert Wright - Former FBI agent
Given the scope of the tragedy from last week, I am glad to reassure the people of New York and Washington, D.C., that their air is safe to breathe and their water is safe to drink."— Christie Todd Whitman - 9/18/2001
#97. To: christine, Jethro Tull, yertleturtle, Cynicom (#95)
If they are in the basement how did they survive? if it was a controlled demo designed to make the building collapse on its foot print you would have to have the charges set in the basement! Oops on your part.
can't square the testimony of William Rodriquez, and others, who were in the basement of the N. tower? when they heard - and felt - explosions.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#98. To: Destro (#64)
The truth to some people is a religion. The truth shall set you free. You should try it sometime.
Can I ask why you think this subgroup has latched on to this complex conspiracy like a religion?
God is always good!
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#99. To: Destro (#91)
I was planting trees to the southwest of Mt. Saint Helens when it blew. I saw what enormous amounts of energy are required to create pyroclastic flows such as we saw blasting down the canyons of NY streets after the blasts reduced concrete to sand and mixed it with superheated gases. Those debris laden clouds were not and cannot be explained by gravity alone. The were caused by the use of carefully placed ordinance taking the buildings down/ The shear size of the bloom of material from these explosions as well as the lack of remaining steel core which would have been left standing if the floors had pancaked taking the extra time resisting the effect of the debris falling on them which they didn't do. No, this was a demolition of these buildings, done for political and economic gain, pure and simple. Anyone who thinks gravity alone can melt steel, blast apart the foundation, create pyroclastic flows and atomize thing so profoundly only things like pieces of keyboards were found is either living in la la land, or has a vested interest in trying to keep the truth about 9 11 from coming out.
"Ooo, you got me mistyping - the force of gravity throws the building debris off course causing the banana peel effect."
#100. To: Destro (#97)
They also don't understand when implosion charges go off it's a low, dull roar, not "kerpow!" like a firecracker. It's a very distinctive sound; I've heard it several times. And true, anyone in a building being imploded would never get out alive.
If they are in the basement how did they survive? if it was a controlled demo designed to make the building collapse on its foot print you would have to have the charges set in the basement!
"We become what we behold. We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." -- Marshall McLuhan, after Alexander Pope and William Blake.
#101. To: Destro (#97)
Au contraire, the obviousness of there having had been explosions at and below ground level bodes bad for your fairy tale. There were plenty of rooms and other complex structure allowing some survivors. This firemen who survived the collapse by being in the stair area they were in when the buildings fell prove that.
"Oops on your part."
#102. To: Destro (#97)
People in the death zone of Mt. Saint Helens survived as well. That you would resort to such a desperately simplistic and foolish notion that everyone in the entire structure would be killed by the ordinance used is just flat ridiculous.
#103. To: Destro (#68)
In your world they would, but not in reality.
It would not matter - just 400-500 degrees F would reduce the strength of steel by half.
God is always good!
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#104. To: Destro (#97)
you don't even know rodriguez' story. Rodriguez heard and felt explosions in the basement a long time before the collapse. then he spent much time helping to get people out of the building. then shortly before the collapse he was up well above ground level and heard/saw evidence of a second explosion. then he got out of the building. then the building collapsed. then he dove under an SUV for cover as debris fell all around. Then he was the last survivor to be dug out. he was un-hurt under the SUV that was completely covered by rubble. There were 15 or so people who were inside one of the buildings at the time of the collapse who did survive due to the fact that between approximately 10'th and 15'th floors a stairwell provided shelter and it did not fall in on them, the debris just fell all around, but did not kill them. one of those survivors was quoted in People magazine as saying she was on the 12'th floor and she saw a big explosion right in front of her. this occurred 10-15 seconds before the collapse began. She went immediately in the stair well after seeing the explosion and survived. another woman was quoted in new york times as saying that a friend of hers inside the building told her via cell phone that he witnessed explosions before the collapse. there is in reality a mountain of evidence of explosions before the collapse. it was even broadcast right on tv - Fox, MSNBC, CNN, etc. their own journalists said they witnessed explosions up & down the building before the collapse. I guess you're still working out your spiel. good luck.
If they are in the basement how did they survive?
#105. To: christine (#95)
There were other construction workers 3, 4, and 5 sub-basements down, Philip Morelli and others that reported walls blown out, walls exploding and caving in, parking garages blown, machine shops destroyed, 50 ton presses gone. There are "newly discovered" clips of news reporters near the towers before their collapse, that have sharp cracks of explosions on the audio.
Mark
The FBI, rather than trying to prevent a terrorist attack, was merely gathering intelligence so they would know who to arrest when a terrorist attack occurred.— Robert Wright - Former FBI agent
Given the scope of the tragedy from last week, I am glad to reassure the people of New York and Washington, D.C., that their air is safe to breathe and their water is safe to drink."— Christie Todd Whitman - 9/18/2001
#106. To: RickyJ (#103)
Its a preposterous lie. You and I know Ricky that those temps can barely melt and burn paint.
Mark
The FBI, rather than trying to prevent a terrorist attack, was merely gathering intelligence so they would know who to arrest when a terrorist attack occurred.— Robert Wright - Former FBI agent
Given the scope of the tragedy from last week, I am glad to reassure the people of New York and Washington, D.C., that their air is safe to breathe and their water is safe to drink."— Christie Todd Whitman - 9/18/2001
#107. To: Destro (#97)
no, oops on your part. William Rodriquez's testimony was featured extensively in 911 Mysteries: Demolitions. you didn't watch it.
If they are in the basement how did they survive?
#108. To: christine (#107)
I did. Assuming he is telling the truth and his times are correct, I have no explanation. I have wondered if at any time anyone posed the question to demolition experts as to how many men, how long it would take and what would be the cost to rig the three buildings for controlled failure. I think an answer would be interesting.
Demolitions. you didn't watch it.
#109. To: Ferret Mike, YertleTurtle (#101)
LOL - then they could not have brought the building down if some rooms allowed survivors. For a demolition to bring the building down on its footprints as you say - you need them placed in the basement - and no way is anyone getting out alive- especially the amount of explosive you will need - unlike normal demolitions - no gutting is taking place of the structure - you are overcompensating the explosives - plus how they could get by drilling all those hols to wrap a HUGE amount of explosives around beams/columns without anyone noticing is impossible. You guys are in the comic book world where they slap explosives on the wall and set some wires in it or something. You guys are all over the place - explosives on every floor - explosives in the basement - but survivors in the basement - no knowledge on how much more explosives is needed to compensate for not gutting the building's structural strength before hand. Dudes..enough.
There were plenty of rooms and other complex structure allowing some survivors
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#110. To: RickyJ (#103)
It is my world - I work for a steel beam maker.
In your world they would, but not in reality.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#111. To: Ferret Mike, yertleturtle (#102)
Open space of thousands of acres vs a building - why the comparisons are dead on - OK, Sherlock.
People in the death zone of Mt. Saint Helens survived as well.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#112. To: Red Jones (#104)
LOL - then they could not have brought the building down if some rooms allowed survivors. For a demolition to bring the building down on its footprints as you say - you need them placed in the basement - and no way is anyone getting out alive- especially the amount of explosive you will need - unlike normal demolitions - no gutting is taking place of the structure - you are overcompensating the explosives - plus how they could get by drilling all those hols to wrap a HUGE amount of explosives around beams/columns without anyone noticing is impossible. You guys are in the comic book world where they slap explosives on the wall and set some wires in it or something. You guys are all over the place - explosives on every floor - explosives in the basement - but survivors in the basement - no knowledge on how much more explosives is needed to compensate for not gutting the building's structural strength before hand. Dudes..enough.
you don't even know rodriguez' story. Rodriguez heard and felt explosions in the basement a long time before the collapse. then he spent much time helping to get people out of the building.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#113. To: Cynicom (#108)
Cyni. Had the government the interest they could take Rodriquez, and the survivors from the basement explosions to the Manhattan Grand Jury, let them testify, and I'd guarantee an indictment against unknown conspirators. In the case of Larry Silverstein (“Lets pull it”), he’d be indicted.
Assuming he is telling the truth and his times are correct, I have no explanation.
#114. To: Cynicom, christine (#108)
Demolitions. you didn't watch it. I did. Assuming he is telling the truth and his times are correct, I have no explanation. I have wondered if at any time anyone posed the question to demolition experts as to how many men, how long it would take and what would be the cost to rig the three buildings for controlled failure. I think an answer would be interesting. For a demolition to bring the building down on its footprints as you say - you need them placed in the basement - and no way is anyone getting out alive- especially the amount of explosive you will need - unlike normal demolitions - no gutting is taking place of the structure - you are overcompensating the explosives - plus how they could get by drilling all those hols to wrap a HUGE amount of explosives around beams/columns without anyone noticing is impossible. You guys are in the comic book world where they slap explosives on the wall and set some wires in it or something. You guys are all over the place - explosives on every floor - explosives in the basement - but survivors in the basement - no knowledge on how much more explosives is needed to compensate for not gutting the building's structural strength before hand.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#115. To: Destro (#112)
Who said this?
but survivors in the basement
#116. To: Destro (#109)
you just don't know the subject matter. Your efforts at thinking are undisciplined. you can't even discuss this stuff rationally. but you can believe whatever you're told on tv. We told you the guy rodriguez was in the basement LONG BEFORE the collapse and saw/heard evidence of explosions in the basement at that time. Then later he got out of the building and survived. the people inside the building who survived were in the 10'th-15'th floor range of 1 of the buildings and all in a stairwell that was mostly unharmed on those floors. this is well documented, I saw a special on PBS about it, and you deny it. there are a ton of people who witnessed the explosions. But in the basement there were chemical based devices set off to melt major columns at the very lowest level in the 10 seconds before the collapses began in both buildings. We know this because Syracuse University recorded earthquakes occurring at the locations of these buildings and in the 10 seconds before the collapses of both tall buildings. These earthquakes were 2-2.5 on Richter scale. That could only have been caused by the large steel columns bolted to bedrock being melted by very violent chemical action. then later pools of melted steel were found at the bottom of the rubble. so demolitions were placed in the basement. and Syracuse University people gave absolute evidence of this when they spoke about the earthquakes they recorded. Something tells me Destro(y) is a complete idiot who will say the earthquakes were caused by the collapses of the buildings. First, the earthquakes occurred in the 10 seconds BEFORE the collapses began. Second, the collapses of large buildings are known to only cause readings of less than 0.1 on richter scale. these readings were 2.0 - 2.5 on richter scale which are over 100 times larger than a 0.1. the theory that these earthquakes were caused by building collapse is just foolish.
For a demolition to bring the building down on its footprints as you say - you need them placed in the basement
#117. To: Cynicom (#108)
yes it would be interesting. we know from reports that in the several days before this sept 11 events occurred there were unusual occurrences inside the building. The night before the lights on both buildings were completely off, first time in the 30 years that the buildings had been completed from construction. and there were reports of a large number of workmen brought into the building in the nights before these events. the normal security and the normal maintenance people were changed up and unusual occurrences happened.
how many men, how long it would take and what would be the cost to rig the three buildings for controlled failure. I think an answer would be interesting.
#118. To: Jethro Tull, Cynicom, yertleturtle (#113)
WTC& fell because a huge gash from falling debris destroyed its integrity from the 18th floor all t he way down the building was cut open - in addition the mayor had placed his command bunker at the top floor - crazy - but the basement was filed with a I think 16K Gallon diesel fuel tank designed already cited as a safety hazard - because fuel and fumes could spread throughout the building via the elevator shaft. That combination was what brought down the building. They was no need to knock it down hours later for the insurance money as you intimate. The building was already at a total loss. Its a shock to me that you guys reduce the complexities of 9/11 to a real estate insurance scam - complete with making Silverstein into some sort of commando team leader handing out covert ops instructions like Dr. Evil. By the way was the 'pull it' comment intercepted by some Ham radio operator? No, He said it in a PBS interview as he reflected on the day's events - but you twist that to make it seem you found out his secret radio transmissions or something.
Cyni. Had the government the interest they could take Rodriquez, and the survivors from the basement explosions to the Manhattan Grand Jury, let them testify, and I'd guarantee an indictment against unknown conspirators. In the case of Larry Silverstein (“Lets pull it”), he’d be indicted.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#119. To: Destro (#114)
Guys??? Firstly, Christine aint no guy, I am. Secondly your reading comprehension has slipped. I asked a logical question...Did anyone ever ask a demolition expert his opinion.
You guys are in the comic book world where they slap explosives on the wall and set some wires in it or something.
#120. To: Jethro Tull (#115)
Who said this? You did at # 78: I can't square the testimony of William Rodriquez, and others, who were in the basement of the N. tower? when they heard - and felt - explosions. and Red Jones @ # 104: you don't even know rodriguez' story. Rodriguez heard and felt explosions in the basement a long time before the collapse
but survivors in the basement
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#121. To: Red Jones (#116)
One more time - For a demolition to bring the building down on its footprints as you say - you need them placed in the basement and he would not have been alive to witness them in the basement.
We told you the guy rodriguez was in the basement LONG BEFORE the collapse and saw/heard evidence of explosions in the basement at that time. Then later he got out of the building and survived.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#122. To: Cynicom (#119)
I asked a logical question...Did anyone ever ask a demolition expert his opinion. Yea - and they were called CIA agents by the other side.
Firstly, Christine aint no guy, I am. Secondly your reading comprehension has slipped.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#123. To: Destro (#110)
Good for you, but that has nothing to do with your world vs. reality. Gravity throwing objects "downward" and steel losing half its strength by 400 to 500 F temperatures are facts in your world but not in reality. Your world is a comic book world. The world I and others who believe that the towers were brought down with explosives is rooted in reality, not fantasy as your views are.
It is my world - I work for a steel beam maker.
God is always good!
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#124. To: Cynicom, yertleturtle (#119) (Edited)
I asked a logical question...Did anyone ever ask a demolition expert his opinion. I posted this link and all he usual suspects called the link a CIA web site, such is their delusion. http://www.implosionworld.com/wtc.h tm THE WORLD TRADE CENTER COLLAPSE Questions & Answers WHY DID THEY COLLAPSE? Each 110-story tower contained a central steel core surrounded by open office space, with 18-inch steel tubes running vertically along the outside of the building. These structural elements provided the support for the building, and most experts agree that the planes impacting the buildings alone would not have caused them to collapse. The intense heat from the burning jet fuel, however, gradually softened the steel core and redistributed the weight to the outer tubes, which were slowly deformed by the added weight and the heat of the fire. Eventually, the integrity of these tubes was compromised to the point where they buckled under the weight of the higher floors, causing a gravitational chain reaction that continued until all of the floors were at ground level. DID THE TERRORISTS PLANT ANY BOMBS IN THE BUILDINGS IN ADVANCE TO GUARANTEE THEIR DEMISE? To our knowledge there is no evidence whatsoever to support this assertion. Analysis of video and photographs of both towers clearly shows that the initial structural failure occurred at or near the points where the planes impacted the buildings. Furthermore, there is no visible or audible indication that explosives or any other supplemental catalyst was used in the attack. READ IMPLOSIONWORLD'S PAPER ON THE WORLD TRADE CENTER COLLAPSE'S
Firstly, Christine aint no guy, I am. Secondly your reading comprehension has slipped.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#125. To: robin (#0) (Edited)
Nice post Robin. Thank you for keeping it balanced ;-)
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition
#126. To: RickyJ (#123)
Read # 124.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#127. To: IndieTX (#125)
Beautiful girl, but you just screwed up the whole thread. Could you please edit it and resize it with the width and height attributes of the IMG tag to fit most people's screen resolution? 800X600 should be OK.
God is always good!
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#128. To: Destro (#120)
Are you confusing explosions prior to the plane strike and the subsequent collapse? People - Rodriquez and others - survived the basement explosions. They could be featured on Larry King or Oprah this week if the MSM had the interest. Nobody here claims people survived in the basement after the collapse.
#129. To: Destro (#126)
Why is #124 the comic book source for your world?
Read # 124.
God is always good!
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#130. To: ALL, robin (#124) (Edited)
Even if the premise were true, this would have required perfectly even heat distribution in all 3 buildings. As I've posted before, with different damage and phyical variables in all 3 buildings, this explanation is impossible for a straight down collapse accompanied by "vaporization" to dust of the buildings. IOW, physically impossible, especially without the core being taken out. Multiply by 3 buildings with exactly the same collapse profiles and the absurdity of the government explanation is even more obvious. It sure "sounds" good though to the sheople who have an average intelligence level less than most high school kids.
he intense heat from the burning jet fuel, however, gradually softened the steel core and redistributed the weight to the outer tubes, which were slowly deformed by the added weight and the heat of the fire
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition
#131. To: RickyJ (#127) (Edited)
I resized it to 500x700..is it better now??
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition
#132. To: RickyJ, yertleturtle (#123)
http://www.concretethinking.org/main.asp?page=827 The ability of structural steel to withstand major fires is under scrutiny. The latest findings of the US-based National Institute of Standards and Technology into the collapse of the World Trade Center couple with the recent collapse in fire of the perimeter steel columns of the Madrid Windsor Torre building question the performance of structural steel in fires in high rise buildings. And it is not just in high rise buildings. The avocation by the UK Chief Fire Officers' Association of a boycott of fire fighters entering burning steel framed superstores and warehouses is also raising questions about the use of steel for low rise buildings reports Anna Scothern, Head of Performance at The Concrete Centre. http://www.emporis.com/en/bu/nc/ne/?id=101283 Madrid: A fire of an unknown source has affected one of Madrid's most famous skyscraper. The fire began at the 21st floor at about 22.30 GMT Saturday 12th of February and rapedly extended along the building. Torre Windsor had been under renovation works for the past year and fortunately the building remained empty. Part of the facade has collapsed and firefighters had to abandoned the building due to the risk of collpasing of the structure.
and steel losing half its strength by 400 to 500 F temperatures are facts in your world but not in reality.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#133. To: IndieTX, yertleturtle (#130)
Let me see your calculations. What engineering program does your PC run that you used to crunch the numbers?
As I've posted before, with different damage and phyical variables in all 3 buildings, this explanation is impossible for a straight down collapse accompanied by "vaporization" to dust of the buildings
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#134. To: IndieTX (#131)
Yeah it's good. Thanks.
I resized it to 500x700..is it better now??
God is always good!
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#135. To: Destro, rickyj, robin, all (#133) (Edited)
It's called Statistics. You don't need engineering for Statistics to make the entire premise mathematically impossible for 3 different damage patterns in 3 different buildings with 3 different sets of temperature/damage variables to collapse in the SAME way. The laws of Probability have been broken wide open if so. LOL
What engineering program does your PC run that you used to crunch the numbers?
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition
#136. To: Destro (#132) (Edited)
Are you trying to make a fool of yourself on purpose, or are you really a 9/11 truther just trying to get people to see the truth from the asinine position the government takes on the destruction of the twin towers? Either way you are indeed helping the cause of spreading the truth of the towers being brought down by our government with explosives if you know it or not. :)
God is always good!
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#137. To: Destro (#118)
I imagine a fire hot enough to melt steel and collapse a building would be quite large and hot. When did it start? As this fictional fire raged, was the immediate area evecuated of emergency workers? If yes, did Silverstein know this when he requested the building pulled? WHat did he mean by the term pull? Who was he communicatine with when he issued the "pull" order? Finally, Please show me any pictures of this building destroying blaze.
but the basement was filed with a I think 16K Gallon diesel fuel tank designed already cited as a safety hazard - because fuel and fumes could spread throughout the building via the elevator shaft.
#138. To: IndieTX (#125)
great post in #125 IndieTx.
#139. To: Red Jones (#116)
That is why I BOZO the dipwad.
you just don't know the subject matter. Your efforts at thinking are undisciplined. you can't even discuss this stuff rationally.
“The tendency of democracies is, in all things, to mediocrity, since the tastes, knowledge, and principles of the majority form the tribunal of appeal.” James Fenimore Cooper
#140. To: Destro (#111)
In fact they are. topography of the kill zone created pockets of area where people were able to survive if they were in the right spot at the right time. Also the kill zone ended quite abruptly and you can find the border of it or areas where the superheated gas missed because of the complexity of the landscape. If this happened in the valleys and canyons close to Mt. Saint Helens, you know that there were areas of the blast zone in the basement and other areas where people in the twin towers survived as well.
"Open space of thousands of acres vs a building - why the comparisons are dead on - OK, Sherlock."
#141. To: RickyJ (#88)
That is the catalyst. No wonder they're working overtime.
I can think of only one logical reason: they want to discredit the notion that the WTC towers were brought down with explosives because that is exactly what happened.
#142. To: Ferret Mike (#140)
of course some people survived. that Destro(y) guy is only capable of thinking along the paradigm he's given in dramatic fashion by a tv. I saw that stupid movie 911 I think a few weeks ago. I saw it for cathartic reasons only, knowing full-well it would be propaganda. It showed some firemen caught in the underground walkway between the two buildings when one of the collapses occurred. Some debris rained on them, but two of these firemen actually survived even though there was lots of debris above them. of course some people survived, that's the way it always is in such things. At Hiroshima in Japan on Aug 6 1945 there was one woman who was less than 20 feet from the actual explosion and she survived. She was in her home made of corrugated sheet steel. when the explosion occurred she stood right next to a wall, the building was flattened. she was laid down on the building relatively gently by that corrugated steel sheet and the force of the explosion just passed right over her. and 20 seconds or so later after the force of the explosion stopped she could push that steel off of her and she lived. Destro(y) would tell us that this was evidence that no nuke was dropped at Hiroshima on aug 6 1945. the guy is unable to reason. an example of a person who believes that tv is reality. his mind's been turned over to a reprobate condition. he is deceived.
#143. To: Ferret Mike (#89)
BushCheneyInc et al did 911. Gonna be no peace in Paraguay. Or in the bunkers in Wyoming.
These are people whose shadow government has done things in the past like kill Kennedy and felled governments and started wars toward a coherent end, and they are quite skilled in developing plausible denial that they did not take the towers down.
#144. To: Red Jones (#142) (Edited)
Either that or he has never done any cooking in his life to say that steel loses half its strength between 400 and 500 degrees F. I seriously don't think he is really that dumb, I think he might just be playing the devil's advocate here.
an example of a person who believes that tv is reality. his mind's been turned over to a reprobate condition. he is deceived.
God is always good!
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#145. To: angle (#143)
Right, Paraguay will offer him no real protection. He would have a better chance on deserted island, or Anartica if the sheeple ever wake up.
BushCheneyInc et al did 911. Gonna be no peace in Paraguay. Or in the bunkers in Wyoming.
God is always good!
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#146. To: Destro (#94)
The demolition of the towers and wtc7 is no honey trap...it's a fact. That's why you're so heavily invested in steering the discussion elsewhere.
#147. To: IndieTX (#130)
What expertise do you have to refute an actual expert?
Even if the premise were true
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#148. To: IndieTX, yertleturtle (#135) (Edited)
so that is why statisticians go into the construction business?
You don't need engineering for Statistics
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#149. To: Destro (#148)
Funny!
tertleturtle
God is always good!
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#150. To: angle (#146)
You mean you think I am the Man? You guys are delusional - and I think the events of 9/11 implicate the govt of the USA. Try again.
The demolition of the towers and wtc7 is no honey trap...it's a fact. That's why you're so heavily invested in steering the discussion elsewhere.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#151. To: Destro, all (#147)
Don't test my debate skills. What expertise do you have to discern whether the "expert" is on the level? Do you believe him based on his credentials alone? Are you aware that "experts" have differing opinions?
What expertise do you have to refute an actual expert?
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition
#152. To: angle (#146)
The Towers were not "demo'ed" - all such discussion serves to deflect attention the American regimes implication in 9/11 and serves as a 'honey trap' to deflect resources from legit inquiries and discredit any notion of a conspiracy (and there is one). Where did these websites get their financing for their investigations? Pay for their webpages?
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#153. To: IndieTX (#151)
Expert vs expert is acceptable.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#154. To: Destro (#153) (Edited)
First of all it would be necessary to define what an expert is. Does many years experience qualify one as an expert? Or does popular opinion make one an expert? Your expert could be my idiot, while my expert could be your idiot. Throwing the word expert around really means nothing in this discussion given your obvious lack of education on basic matters.
Expert vs expert is acceptable.
God is always good!
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#155. To: RickyJ (#154)
Someone who works in that field is a good place to start.
First of all it would be necessary to define what an expert is.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#156. To: Destro (#110)
Well then, hush my mouth. All those qualifications and I'm arguing. Who do I think I am?
I work for a steel beam maker.
#157. To: Destro (#150) (Edited)
That's what I'm saying.
The demolition of the towers and wtc7 is no honey trap...it's a fact.
#158. To: angle (#156)
Not a case of who you are - but where do you get the notion that you can say the heat of a fire at such and such degrees does not weaken steel? It is a fact that around 500degrees C steel loses a majority of its strength. This was denied. I call out the person - where is your cred to say such a thing?
Well then, hush my mouth. All those qualifications and I'm arguing. Who do I think I am?
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#159. To: Destro (#158)
You better call in the reinforcements if that's all ya got. The towers were demo'ed. There's no putting the cat back in the bag.
#160. To: angle (#159)
Read #124
You better call in the reinforcements if that's all ya got.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#161. To: Destro (#158)
#68. To: angle, lodwick (#66) It would not matter - just 400-500 degrees F would reduce the strength of steel by half. Now you say: It is a fact that around 500degrees C steel loses a majority of its strength. You're a lousy shill, but in case there may be one person out there considering that you may have any credibility, this post's for them.
First you say:
#162. To: angle (#159)
The towers were demo'ed. There's no putting the cat back in the bag. Yeah, he's definitely in need of reinforcements. He doesn't seem to understand the difference between Celsius and Fahrenheit, much less the gravitational attraction between masses.
You better call in the reinforcements if that's all ya got.
God is always good!
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#163. To: Destro (#155) (Edited)
Now we must define what work in that field means.
Someone who works in that field is a good place to start.
God is always good!
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#164. To: angle (#161)
A self-cleaning oven is an oven which uses high temperature (approximately 900 degrees Fahrenheit - 482 degrees Celsius) to burn off leftovers from baking, without the use of any chemical agents. A self cleaning oven is designed to stay locked until high temperature process is completed. Mechanical interlock (patented in 1982.) is used to keep the oven door locked and closed during and soon after the high-temperature cleaning cycle, which lasts approximately three hours. Oven doors stays locked to prevent possible burn injuries. Oven doors can be opened again after the temperature in oven cools to approximately 600 F (315 C).
FYI
you'll ever get is when they lower the box. - Hud 1963
#165. To: Destro (#152)
Disinformation is part art and part science. The CIA has been perfecting it for years. I have no doubt many 9/11 sites are meant to keep people away from the real truth and discredit it among others. You have to have the intelligence to see through the crap and do your own independent investigations based on the only hard evidence that has survived since 9/11, the videos of the buildings collapsing. No amount of disinformation in the world will be able to cover up the fact they were brought down on cue by our government with explosives as long as those many original eyewitness pictures and videos remain available to the masses. Some day this will be common knowledge and people like you will either be known as idiots, or agents of the evil regime that carried out this atrocity upon the citizens of the USA.
Where did these websites get their financing for their investigations? Pay for their webpages?
God is always good!
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#166. To: RickyJ (#165)
You actually think stuff like that happens on cue? Like some Rube Golberg device? The world does not work that way.
No amount of disinformation in the world will be able to cover up the fact they were brought down on cue by our government
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#167. To: RickyJ (#165)
You know what we will think? Why are the American people - well you poseurs that think the demolitions were planted in any case - not rising up in arms? Ambushing soldiers? Police? Targeting political officials and govt employees? In Hungry the people are rioting in the streets over the govt fudging the economic data and you saps sit around saying the govt dynamited buildings down. I don't know about you but if I accepted the govt was dynamiting buildings I wold arm myself get some guys and start killing the enemy. The fact that you types have not risen up in arms to end this evil to me indicates that this is an intellectual fantasy on your parts - a way to give form to your fears of Big Brother. The Black Helicopter - FEMA is the shadow govt - UN troops are hiding in American bases ready to take over the USA for the UN crowd from the 90s who found a new expression for their frights after 9/11.
Some day this will be common knowledge and people like you will either be known as idiots, or agents of the evil regime that carried out this atrocity upon the citizens of the USA.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#168. To: Destro (#167)
Ambushing soldiers? Police? Targeting political officials and govt employees? In Hungry the people are rioting in the streets over the govt fudging the economic data and you saps sit around saying the govt dynamited buildings down. I don't know about you but if I accepted the govt was dynamiting buildings I wold arm myself get some guys and start killing the enemy. The fact that you types have not risen up in arms to end this evil to me indicates that this is an intellectual fantasy on your parts - Why? Because the sheople don't give a damn just as they are not rising up at the destruction of the Constitution and their Freedom in the name of "safety." Neither did they rise up for the Weavers or Waco. Does this mean by your logic that it isn't happening? Of course not. People alone will end up incarcerated or dead and most have children they don't want to leave behind. It will only work if everyone does it. That doesn't say much for the backbone of the cowards in this country. Believe me, if I had no children [something to live for], I'd have made the front page already doing exactly as you suggest. Your argument in no way discounts the veracity of what is going on. 9-11 notwithstanding, why in your opinion have people not risen up against the theft of their Freedom..or do you not think that that has happened either?
Why are the American people - well you poseurs that think the demolitions were planted in any case - not rising up in arms?
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition
#169. To: angle (#161)
Excuse me for mistyping F when I should have written C - in any case you tell me at what temperature steel loses strength in? Can you tell me a temperature by temperature analysis of the lowering of steel strength till failure?
First you say:
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#170. To: RickyJ (#163)
So in other words you have no experts in those fields just guys who write stuff.
Now we must define what work in that field means.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#171. To: IndieTX (#168)
You guys are not sheeple - you guys are claiming this happened - - hence you can't be sheep - Why do this if you don't care abou the sheeple? self defense - revenge - two reasons - go for it. Fakers. That is the real sin on you guys part - claiming such a thing and then not doing what needs be done. Anyone who claims they know the govt planted explosives in the buildings and allows such people to rule them is deserving of contempt.
Why? Because the sheople
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#172. To: Destro (#170)
I have? I am not relying on any, I repeat, any so-called “experts” or lay people for my conclusions of what happened on 9/11. I am relying on the evidence that is readily available and using own knowledge of physics and structures, in particular the WTC towers, to reach my determination that the towers did not come in the manner they did due to the planes hitting them and the resulting fires. If you must rely on "experts" to have an opinion on this matter then I would suggest physics researcher Dr. Stephen Jones.
So in other words you have no experts in those fields just guys who write stuff.
God is always good!
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#173. To: IndieTX (#168)
The people will rise up when their actions affects a critical mass of people and the elite know that. That's why concentration camps have been built all over the USA.
God is always good!
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#174. To: angle, RickyJ (#161)
And you know who you are a lousy shill for? MI6/CIA. By trying to focus on explosives in buildings you are distracting people from focusing on the MI6/CIA Mujahideen networks that existed and still exist. Useful idiots to the American regime.
You're a lousy shill
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#175. To: Destro (#171) (Edited)
You ask for an explanation and dismiss it out of hand. You are no longer worth arguing with. Typical Bot tactic. AND you fail to answer my question of you. Why haven't you risen up for reasons other than 9-11 I ask again? Because you are a StateInc shill.
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition
#176. To: Destro, angle, RickyJ (#174)
Well go for it Destro(y). Give us the goods on the "MI6/CIA Mujahideen networks that existed and still exist". You might even get some credibility
By trying to focus on explosives in buildings you are distracting people from focusing on the MI6/CIA Mujahideen networks that existed and still exist.
#177. To: tom007 (#176) (Edited)
You might even get some credibility Start here: The Yugoslav Caldron “The CIA recruited and trained the jihadists” Also here: From: A Half- Dozen Questions About 9/11 They Don't Want You to Ask More dispositive than these speculations, however, are the very real connections between Washington and Islamic jihadists in the Balkans throughout the 1990s. The report hints at this relationship by mentioning the presence of charity fronts of bin Laden's "network" in Zagreb and Sarajevo. In fact, the U.S. government engaged in a massive covert operation to infiltrate Islamic fighters, many of them veterans of the Afghan war, into the Balkans for the purpose of undermining the Milosevic government. The "arms embargo," enforced by the U.S. military, was a cover for this activity (i.e., using military force to keep prying eyes from seeing what was going on). A key Washington fixer for the Muslim government of Bosnia was the law firm of Feith and Zell. Yes, Douglas Feith, one of the principal conspirators involved in launching the Iraq war under the banner of opposing Islamic terrorism, was a proponent of introducing Islamic terrorists into South Eastern Europe. Do the "Islamofascists" of pseudo-conservative demonology accordingly seem less like satanic enemies and more like puppets dangling from an unseen hand? Or perhaps the analogy is incorrect: more like a Frankenstein's Monster that has slipped the control of its creator.
Give us the goods on the "MI6/CIA Mujahideen networks that existed and still exist".
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#178. To: Destro (#169)
In the mid-1990s British Steel and the Building Research Establishment performed a series of six experiments at Cardington to investigate the behavior of steel frame buildings. These experiments were conducted in a simulated, eight-story building. Secondary steel beams were not protected. Despite the temperature of the steel beams reaching 800-900º C (1,500- 1,700º F) in three of the tests (well above the traditionally assumed critical temperature of 600º C (1,100º F), no collapse was observed in any of the six experiments). At temperatures above 800º C structural steel loses 90 percent of its strength. Yet even when steel structures are heated to those temperatures, they never disintegrate into piles of rubble, as did the Twin Towers and Building 7. Why couldn't such dramatic reductions in the strength of the steel precipitate such total collapse events? High-rise buildings are over-engineered to have strength many times greater than would needed to survive the most extreme conditions anticipated. It may take well over a ten-fold reduction in strength to cause a structural failure. If a steel structure does experience a collapse due to extreme temperatures, the collapse tends to remain localized to the area that experienced the high temperatures. The kind of low-carbon steel used in buildings and automobiles bends rather than shatters. If part of a structure is compromised by extreme temperatures, it may bend in that region, conceivably causing a large part of the structure to sag or even topple. However, there is no example of a steel structure crumbling into many pieces because of any combination of structural damage and heating, outside of the alleged cases of the Twin Towers and Building 7.
you'll ever get is when they lower the box. - Hud 1963
#179. To: Esso (#178)
SUPERB!
Mark
The FBI, rather than trying to prevent a terrorist attack, was merely gathering intelligence so they would know who to arrest when a terrorist attack occurred.— Robert Wright - Former FBI agent
Given the scope of the tragedy from last week, I am glad to reassure the people of New York and Washington, D.C., that their air is safe to breathe and their water is safe to drink."— Christie Todd Whitman - 9/18/2001
#180. To: Destro (#169)
You're the one trying to discredit the fact that the towers were demo'ed. The onus is on you, shill.
Can you tell me a temperature by temperature analysis
#181. To: RickyJ (#173)
the truth is common knowledge. That's why these shills are desperately trying to distract from the fact that the towers were demo'ed. It is the catalyst for the end of the neocons.
The people will rise up when
#182. To: Esso, Kamala (#178)
Because they don't have an aircraft shear their support structures - the WTC and WTC7 were not your standard frame built skyscrapers - There were no internal beams for example - so you can get that open air office. See examples: http://www.concretethinking.org/main.asp?page=827 The ability of structural steel to withstand major fires is under scrutiny. The latest findings of the US-based National Institute of Standards and Technology into the collapse of the World Trade Center couple with the recent collapse in fire of the perimeter steel columns of the Madrid Windsor Torre building question the performance of structural steel in fires in high rise buildings. And it is not just in high rise buildings. The avocation by the UK Chief Fire Officers' Association of a boycott of fire fighters entering burning steel framed superstores and warehouses is also raising questions about the use of steel for low rise buildings reports Anna Scothern, Head of Performance at The Concrete Centre. http://www.emporis.com/en/bu/nc/ne/?id=101283 Madrid: A fire of an unknown source has affected one of Madrid's most famous skyscraper. The fire began at the 21st floor at about 22.30 GMT Saturday 12th of February and rapedly extended along the building. Torre Windsor had been under renovation works for the past year and fortunately the building remained empty. Part of the facade has collapsed and firefighters had to abandoned the building due to the risk of collpasing of the structure.
Yet even when steel structures are heated to those temperatures, they never disintegrate into piles of rubble, as did the Twin Towers and Building 7. Why couldn't such dramatic reductions in the strength of the steel precipitate such total collapse events?
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#183. To: rickyj, angle (#178)
Because they don't have an aircraft shear their support structures - the WTC and WTC7 were not your standard frame built skyscrapers - There were no internal beams for example - so you can get that open air office. See examples: http://www.concretethinking.org/main.asp?page=827 The ability of structural steel to withstand major fires is under scrutiny. The latest findings of the US-based National Institute of Standards and Technology into the collapse of the World Trade Center couple with the recent collapse in fire of the perimeter steel columns of the Madrid Windsor Torre building question the performance of structural steel in fires in high rise buildings. And it is not just in high rise buildings. The avocation by the UK Chief Fire Officers' Association of a boycott of fire fighters entering burning steel framed superstores and warehouses is also raising questions about the use of steel for low rise buildings reports Anna Scothern, Head of Performance at The Concrete Centre. http://www.emporis.com/en/bu/nc/ne/?id=101283 Madrid: A fire of an unknown source has affected one of Madrid's most famous skyscraper. The fire began at the 21st floor at about 22.30 GMT Saturday 12th of February and rapedly extended along the building. Torre Windsor had been under renovation works for the past year and fortunately the building remained empty. Part of the facade has collapsed and firefighters had to abandoned the building due to the risk of collpasing of the structure.
Yet even when steel structures are heated to those temperatures, they never disintegrate into piles of rubble, as did the Twin Towers and Building 7. Why couldn't such dramatic reductions in the strength of the steel precipitate such total collapse events?
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#184. To: angle (#180)
You are nothing but a CIA/MI6/NATO ball licker.
You're the one trying to discredit the fact that the towers were demo'ed. The onus is on you, shill.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#185. To: Destro (#183)
Facade from any dictionary: The outside front wall of a building. Examples: Facade materials for a building include: • aluminum • brick • glass • masonry • wood
#186. To: Destro (#183)
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/9-11_wtc_videos.html "Never before in history has a steel high rise building collapsed simply because of fire. On 9/11, by coincidence, three such buildings collapsed in ten to fifteen seconds, almost freefall speed. In other words, if you dropped a brick from the top of the World Trade Center it would have taken about that time to hit the ground."
#187. To: robin (#186)
Except in Madrid. There goes your exceptionalisim argument.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#188. To: Destro (#183)
Liar, liar, pants on fire. If the aircraft did shear the support structures then the buildings would have toppled over when the planes hit them. Obviously that didn't happen, they didn't even sway any more than a windy day would have made them sway. On 9/11 there was no wind to speak of in NY City from what I have heard, so that additional normal horizontal stress on the building was not present that day. It is a blatant lie to say there were no internal beams when there were 47 core columns in each tower. When one has to resort to lying to defend a theory, it is a good sign the theory they support is wrong.
Because they don't have an aircraft shear their support structures - the WTC and WTC7 were not your standard frame built skyscrapers - There were no internal beams for example - so you can get that open air office.
God is always good!
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#189. To: Destro, angle (#184)
Desperation time has kicked in for this agent/contractor I see.
You are nothing but a CIA/MI6/NATO ball licker.
God is always good!
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#190. To: RickyJ (#188)
It did eventually as shown here: http://www.civil.usyd.edu.au/wtc.s html
If the aircraft did shear the support structures then the buildings would have toppled over when the planes hit them.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#191. To: RickyJ (#189)
Yea, because I have a posting history for supporting the USA or Amerian foreign policy on the last decade or so of posting history - oops not really. All you are doing is making it ridiculous for people to hold the view that the USA via the CIA and the British via MI6 were in league with the jihadi groups that carried out 9/11 because we are now lumped in with you wack jobs.
Desperation time has kicked in for this agent/contractor I see.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#192. To: Destro (#191)
You have to lie to support the government’s theory. WTC7, WTC1 and WTC2 are the smoking guns of 9/11. No Arabs demolished those buildings.
All you are doing is making it ridiculous for people to hold the view that the USA via the CIA and the British via MI6 were in league with the jihadi groups that carried out 9/11 because we are now lumped in with you wack jobs.
God is always good!
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#193. To: Destro (#187)
You chose a really bad example to make your point; Madrid's fire helps make the demolition of the WTC more clear. First of all the facade of a building has a lot of non-structural stuff attached to it, like gargoyles (you're probably acquainted with a few) and other rather poorly attached doo-dads, as these columns must have been. Maybe you'd have better luck arguing about the Pentagon crash. http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/spain_fire_2005.html The Madrid Skyscraper Fire Sunday 13 February 2005 With morning light, the damage from the spectacular blaze that lit up the night and attracted thousands of onlookers was evident. The top floors were little more than charred steel twisted into destroyed shapes. Everything else was burned away. Roads for two to three blocks in all directions were closed off to traffic, including the main north-south artery Castellana boulevard. Fire trucks, emergency and police vehicles blocked the intersections, while service was curtailed on three subway lines that ran below or near the building. The dirty white smoke that poured upward from the building was visible from several kilometres (miles) away. Against the night sky, bright orange flames shot out the sides and top of building, producing thick columns of black smoke. At about 3 am (0200GMT), at least six of the upper floors collapsed in a shower of flaming metal debris. As the fire burned into the night, all that was visible of the upper parts of the building was the flaming, gutted remains of steel-reinforced concrete floors. The Windsor Building fire provides a graphic illustration of an 800ºC inferno: The fire was so bright it illuminated Madrid: Click images below for full sized photos Madrid to dismantle fire-gutted skyscraper Thursday February 17 MADRID (Reuters) - A 32-storey Madrid skyscraper gutted by the biggest blaze in the city's history will be taken apart piece by piece from the outside because it is too dangerous to enter, a townhall official says. Madrid's eighth tallest building was reduced to a blackened concrete skeleton at the weekend when a fire that lit up the night sky like a huge torch devoured the 106-metre-high building from the top down. "Given the seriousness and extent of the damage ... the adoption of any security measure to avoid new collapses would be totally useless," urban affairs councillor Pilar Martinez said on Thursday. "As a result it will be declared a ruin and (we will proceed with) its complete demolition," she added. A system of cranes will be set up to allow the charred remains, in the heart of the city's financial district, to be picked apart from outside. "It can't be done from inside because of the state of the building, so the cranes will have to be outside and (workers) will cut it apart piece by piece and bring it down." See also: The Collapse of WTC 1: Madrid Exposes a Fundamental Flaw The Collapse of WTC 1: The fire in WTC 1 is reported to have burned at 800ºC and was located roughly 17 storeys from the top of the building meaning the inner core supported only 6 additional floors of weight above the fire zone in comparison to the Windsor Building. WTC 1 collapsed after only 85 minutes, reportedly through core failure. Don't you find this odd? Let's take a look at the cores of the buildings. Windsor Building Core: WTC 1 Core: It is obvious that the core of WTC 1 was far more robust than the Windsor Building's core - this is to be expected since the building was 110 storeys high. Okay, the core of WTC 1 was solid, but an airliner flew directly fly into it. Could this be the reason for the quick collapse? The above indicates that at least 50% of WTC 1's core was intact after Flight 11 hit the building, and the fact that the building remained standing proves the intact core columns could support the weight of floors above the impact level without problems. This leaves a quandary because we are told that the 800ºC temperatures which the Windsor Building's core columns withstood for 18 hours wrecked the intact core columns of WTC 1 in only 85 minutes. Okay, let's assume that some of WTC 1's remaining core columns of were damaged by the plane impact, maybe this could account for the quick collapse of the building. Well, this might be plausible if an 800ºC fire burned at the airliner impact level, but these temperatures did not exist inside WTC 1. When you add to the above the mysterious demise of the building's core you have to conclude that either a fundamental flaw existed in WTC 1's inner core construction, or a fundamental flaw exists in the official explanation of the building's collapse. "The building was designed to have a fully loaded 707 crash into it, that was the largest plane at the time. I believe that the building could probably sustain multiple impacts of jet liners because this structure is like the mosquito netting on your screen door - this intense grid - and the plane is just a pencil puncturing that screen netting. It really does nothing to the screen netting."Amazingly, a construction crane remained perched on the roof.
http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=4127075 Firefighters shot jets of water onto one of Madrid’s tallest office buildings this morning, fighting to control a blaze that burned all night and threatened to bring down the 32-story skyscraper.
“We are battling Madrid’s most important fire in its history,” said mayor Alberto Ruiz-Gallardon speaking from the scene at about 9am (0800GMT).
“The situation right now is still of high risk,” he added, 10 hours after fire engulfed the Windsor Building in the heart of Madrid’s business and banking district. “It will take hours until this fire is declared under control.”
Amazingly, a construction crane remained perched on the roof.
A filmy soot covered nearby sidewalks and buildings, and a smell of burnt metal hung in the air. 
There were no reported injuries except for three firefighters who suffered smoke inhalation and exhaustion. At its peak, temperatures reached 800 degrees Celsius (1,472 F), said Javier Sanz, head of Madrid firefighters, on Sunday. The building, reportedly the fourth largest in Madrid, was believed unoccupied when the fire broke out.
The cause was not immediately determined, though emergency services spokesman Javier Ayuso said firefighters think it may have been an electrical short circuit.
Police evacuated a nearby apartment building and hosed down neighbouring office buildings to keep the fire from spreading.
Most of the Windsor Building, about 106 metres (350 feet) high, housed offices of Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu, a multinational financial services company. The fire appeared to start about three-quarters of the way up the building.
Construction of the Windsor Building began in 1973 and was completed in 1979. The shiny gold building was a landmark structure in Madrid’s business district. The building had been surrounded with scaffolding due to recent repairs.
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/050217/325/fcpak.html
The 9/11 WTC Fires: Where's the Inferno?
Madrid Exposes a Fundamental FlawThe Windsor Building was of a similar truss design to the twin towers, the fire started 11 storeys from the top of the building, and it burned at temperatures of 800ºC for more than 18 hours [AFP]. The core of the building did not fail. 
The core was designed to support the entire weight of the buildings several times over. Far more than a mere "service core", it comprised of 47 steel box columns tied together at each floor by steel plates, similar to the 52" deep spandrel plates that tied the perimeter columns together. The largest of these core columns were 18"x36", with steel walls 4" thick near the base and tapering in thickness toward the top, and was anchored directly to the bedrock. The aluminum wings and the planes' fuselage would have been almost instantly shredded into pieces the size of an adult's fist, said Tomasz Wierzbicki, director of the impact and crashworthiness laboratory at M.I.T. Engines and other heavy parts continued to the core, but by working out the amount of energy involved, Dr. Wierzbicki and a student, Liang Xue, determined that at most half the inner columns could have been broken or severely mangled. [New York Times] 
#194. To: RickyJ (#192)
CIA protecting shill. You American gave billions for Muslims to cut off my people's heads for snuff recruit videos and now you are trying to hide this association with the jihad your own money financed and your own govt protects.
WTC7, WTC1 and WTC2 are the smoking guns of 9/11. No Arabs demolished those buildings.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#195. To: RickyJ, robin (#192)
You finally pushed destro over the top with this one.
#196. To: Destro (#194)
So are you a Serb, Bosnian or Croatian? My money? Dude, the Federal Reserve, which is a private bank, prints that money. It is not even majority owned by Americans.
You American gave billions for Muslims to cut off my people's heads for snuff recruit videos and now you are trying to hide this association with the jihad your own money financed and your own govt protects.
God is always good!
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#197. To: robin (#193)
From the University of Sydney, Australia - School of Civil Engineering: http://www.civil.usyd.edu.au/wtc.s html I value their judgment over your non-experts acting like experts. You would think a civil engineering school from overseas would see through this ruse you claim exists - but sadly for your fevered mind they do not - because your theory is scientific bull.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#198. To: RickyJ (#196)
No.
So are you a Serb, Bosnian or Croatian?
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#199. To: angle, RickyJ, robin (#195) (Edited)
No, more like they pushed me under - as in Down Under: From the University of Sydney, Australia - School of Civil Engineering: http://www.civil.usyd.edu.au/wtc.s html I value their judgment over your non-experts acting like experts. You would think a civil engineering school from overseas would see through this ruse you claim exists - but sadly for your fevered mind they do not - because your theory is scientific bull.
You finally pushed destro over the top with this one.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#200. To: RickyJ (#192)
WTC7, WTC1 and WTC2 are the smoking guns of 9/11. They never saw Dr. Jones coming. Big mistake.
WTC7, WTC1 and WTC2 are the smoking guns of 9/11.
#201. To: Destro (#197) (Edited)
Funny, there's no mention of the Madrid fire. But there is this interesting note you might have missed at the end: This section added 14 January 2006 ************************ Why don't you quote from Michael Chertoff's cousin's article in Popular Mechanics? FEMA!!!!
This website generates many queries from people in response to some of the other theories that are put forward relating to the collapse - namely that it was a controlled explosion.
The initial impact/further weakening by fire reasoning is based on uncontestable knowledge about the behaviour of structures in general, and the weakening of steel under fire conditions, plus video footage of the events and examination of the steel afterwards. The official FEMA report written by engineering experts came to this conclusion based on the evidence.
However, should additional evidence come to light that supports a different theory, the author is willing to reassess his views.
The fire wasn't hot enough to melt the steel
There has never been a claim that the steel melted in the fire before the buildings collapsed, however the fire would have been very hot. Even though the steel didnt melt, the type of temperatures in the fire would have roughly halved its strength.
There would have been variations in the distribution of the temperature both in place in time. There are photos that show people in the areas opened up by the impact, so it obviously wasnt too hot when those photos were taken, but this is not to say that other parts of the building, further inside were not hotter. In addition, to make a reasonable conclusion from these photos, it would be important to know when they were taken. It might be possible that just after the impact the area wasnt very hot, but as the fire took hold the area got hotter.
The way the building collapsed must have been caused by explosions
One demolition expert on the day of the collapse said it looked like implosion but this is not very strong evidence. Implosion firstly requires a lot of explosives placed in strategic areas all around the building. When and how was this explosive placed in the building without anyone knowing about it. Second, implosion required more than just explosives. Demolition experts spend weeks inside a derelict building planning an event. Many of the beams are cut through by about 90% so that the explosion only has to break a small bit of steel. In this state the building is highly dangerous, and there is no way such a prepared building could still be running day to day like WTC was.
Why did the building fall so quickly?
The buildings did fall quickly - almost (but not exactly) at the same speed as if there was no resistance. Shouldn't the floors below have slowed it down? The huge dynamic loads due to the very large momentum of the upper floors falling were so great that they smashed through the lower floors very quickly. The columns were not designed to carry these huge loads and they provided little resistance.
What about World Trade Center 7?
I have not studied WTC in any great detail and cannot offer any theories on its collapse mechanism. In the chaos of the day, little attention was paid to WTC7, so there is less evidence available on the damage it sustained before it collapsed. However, some questions that you may want to ponder ...
* While it did not receive any direct impact form the planes, how much debris hit at as the main towers collapsed and what damage did it cause?
* To what extent (if any) did the shock or vibrations caused by the collapse of WTC1 & 2 affect the integrity of WTC7?
* Did any unseen damage to the WTC7 foundations occur in the collapse of WTC 1 & 2?
* Did any of the fire suppression systems in WTC7 function?
The author respect people's right to question theories, but at the present time the author does not believe there is enough evidence for him to change his views on this incident.
#202. To: robin (#201)
I have no problem with the statement in question. He is keeping an open mind if anyone has any new evidence - none has presented itself and it in no way supports your position. Try again - find an expert on that level from a different country no less - like I did.
But there is this interesting note you might have missed at the end:
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#203. To: Destro (#202)
On the previous thread I posted a link to the German engineers who studied 9/11.
#204. To: robin (#201)
When 'your side' can get people with the credentials in science and engineering like PM did and refute the PM article in a scientific peer reviewed manner then you guys graduate to the real world. Some guy studying the evidence based on what he sees on YouTube and then blogging about it don't cut it.
Why don't you quote from Michael Chertoff's cousin's article in Popular Mechanics?
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#205. To: Destro (#204)
Some Aussie who quotes FEMA don't cut it here.' Chertoff's cousin tried to pretend he wasn't related to DHS Michael Chertoff at first. What does that tell you?
#206. To: robin (#201)
I can't believe FEMA said this. Steel is a very good conductor of heat, which would have made it very hard to heat up enough at any one point to lose half of its strength at that point. All of the steel supporting structures in that building were connected. If fire was heating one part of the building to the point of the steel losing half of its strength, then the rest of the steel on that floor would have been scorching hot, way too hot to touch as we see the woman in the photo clearly doing. Also the firemen reached the impact floor and reported only two small pockets of fire that they were sure they could knock out with only two hoses right before the South tower started to collapse.
There are photos that show people in the areas opened up by the impact, so it obviously wasnt too hot when those photos were taken, but this is not to say that other parts of the building, further inside were not hotter.
God is always good!
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#207. To: RickyJ (#206)
Excellent point Ricky, but you're not an Aussie expert who quotes from FEMA.
#208. To: robin (#203)
Thanks - I looked and could not find the German engineers' credentials. Can you please link? Thanks.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#209. To: robin, RickyJ (#207)
Why is someone whose jab is to be able to crunch such figures fooled - from another country no less - but you non experts know better than him?
Excellent point Ricky, but you're not an Aussie expert who quotes from FEMA.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#210. To: Destro (#204) (Edited)
All right that's it. You just outed yourself for everyone on this board that you are a shill beyond a doubt. PM has been debunked so thoroughly that they are considered a joke.
When 'your side' can get people with the credentials in science and engineering like PM did and refute the PM article in a scientific peer reviewed manner then you guys graduate to the real world.
God is always good!
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#211. To: Destro (#209)
We've given you Dr. Steven Jones as a credentialed professor at BYU ( or was until he got canned ). Not many people want to disagree with the Bush Crime Family and the NeoSheviks, so they post anonymously. That doesn't mean their facts are not straight. But you prefer to get your Enough said. We know who you're playing for. You won't spend a moment considering all the evidence presented on more than one thread. You just spew garbage from FEMA and the Chertoffs like all the other Rove minions. You have NO credibility. Goodbye!
facts talking points and propaganda from the Chertoffs and FEMA.
#212. To: RickyJ, DisinfoDestro (#210) (Edited)
All right that's it. You just outed yourself for everyone on this board that you are a shill beyond a doubt. PM has been debunked so thoroughly that they are considered a joke. Only a gov't shill or an absolute kool-aid swilling fool would quote that PM article or even bring it up as proof of anything. Popular Mechanics has long ago been exposed as a Zionist controlled and CIA sponsored propaganda outlet.
When 'your side' can get people with the credentials in science and engineering like PM did and refute the PM article in a scientific peer reviewed manner then you guys graduate to the real world.
“The tendency of democracies is, in all things, to mediocrity, since the tastes, knowledge, and principles of the majority form the tribunal of appeal.” James Fenimore Cooper
#213. To: robin (#211)
Dr. Jones was not fired - he quit - will make a fortune on the lecture circuit and his field of study is not building engineering. But that is fine - he is your expert. Anyone else?
We've given you Dr. Steven Jones as a credentialed professor at BYU ( or was until he got canned ).
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#214. To: Destro (#11)
Some force, other than escaping air from the building collapse, propelled those huge sections of steel away from the building, in order to achieve an arching trajectory. What force is reponsible for that? Gravity pulls down, not sideways.
no surprise that the building would fall like a peeling banana - down with an arc.
Do I hear a fat lady singing?
#215. To: Critter (#214)
Force smashes down - inside floors get plasticized - resulting in the outer skin being pushed away from the tower - hence falling in an arc.
Gravity pulls down, not sideways
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#216. To: Destro (#213)
Yeah, except if he hadn't of scared the power elite, they wouldn't have made the noise that scared BYU officials unassigning him from his job in as 'uncontroversial' a way as possible. Dumb spin you have there, Poindexter.
"Dr. Jones was not fired..."
#217. To: robin (#211)
You're too polite. Here's the latest comprehensive site: http://www.masternewmedia.org/news/2006/10/21/911_twin_towers_coll apse_independent.htm This should set their knees a quaking:
#218. To: angle, Destro (#217)
it's obvious that no matter what is presented, Destro's going to hold to the "steel turns to wet noodles" theory. unbelievable.
#219. To: christine (#218)
You work in the steel business? Do you think they fire proof steel beams for show?
it's obvious that no matter what is presented, Destro's going to hold to the "steel turns to wet noodles" theory. unbelievable.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#220. To: christine, Destro (#218)
He think that the discipline to ignore the obvious in order the uphold the more comforting original official story is a good thing. To him, the worst thing is for the truth to get out and see the people become cynical and completely disenchanted with the government in such a way they never fully trust it again. So he protects the power paradigm and it's original story as his goal is not the truth, but to maintain the people's confidence in the government. He thinks the cure of knowing and acknowledging the truth is worse then the disease of toxic government, so he is trying to protect them from a fall.
"it's obvious that no matter what is presented, Destro's going to hold to the "steel turns to wet noodles" theory. unbelievable."
#221. To: angle (#217)
http://www.masternewmedia.org/news/2006/10/21/911_twin_towers_coll apse_independent.htm Thank you!
Here's the latest comprehensive site:
#222. To: Destro (#219)
no, i don't work in the steel business. i don't have to to know that your "steel turns to wet noodles from fire" theory is a crock and totally absurd. NO STEEL STRUCTURED BUILDING LIKE THE TWIN TOWERS HAS EVER COLLAPSED FROM FIRE. NOT EVEN THE ONE IN SPAIN WHICH BURNED OVER 24 HOURS.
#223. To: Destro (#219) (Edited)
People in the steel business tested the steel, it did not melt at the very low burning temperatures of burning kerosene. The people who blew up the building with thermite and high explosives knew this, and they made it a priority to destroy the steel evidence as they knew there would be questions. They were caught by surprise at how the Internet helped people network and focus research faster and in a more comprehensive fashion. That is the only advantage we have had this time around, the next false flag operation, they will try to neutralize the Internet and minimize any viewing by the uncompromising eye of the camera that has done such damage to the official line. Which is why it is deadly important to get them this time around, we may never get another chance. They build redundancies in any design. For example, the structure was extremely innovative and strong. Do you think they designed it to take two aircraft impacts this size for nothing? You think that these buildings are going to be designed with structural redundancy and that will make no difference? It is inconceivable two buildings this strong would be taken out by half the impact they were designed to withstand so exactly close in time line. Looking at the differences of impact and impact point alone, there should have been a greater span of time between falls, or one should have remained standing. They were designed to withstand a jet crash, and they should not have fallen. Even if one building fell, it should have left the extremely strong center core in place. This is too pat, to convenient to have both fall, to have so much heat and atomization of the very buildings themselves, to have melted steel months later under all that rubble. What stinks is your ignoring of the properties of steel and the nature of the architectural design of the building. What stinks is your selective recognition of evidence picking and chosing only those facts help you excuse the criminality of these false flag operations. Your willful blindness is your problem, we do not chose to stay blind to the criminal actions of the government and owners of these buildings.
"You work in the steel business?"
"Do you think they fire proof steel beams for show?"
#224. To: Destro, christine (#219)
It's fire proofed because even small fires can compromise the integrity of the heat treating and the structure would have to be razed because it's not possible to replace or even shore up main beams in most locations. So, one critical member that is ten pounds below the rated tensile strength could result in the demolition of a multi million dollar structure simply because the beam although still safe, no longer exceeds the minimum rating standards for structural steel. Fire Proofing is to protect insurance company stock holders, not occupants of steel framed structures. If there is a fire and the fire proofing is still intact, it tells the inspectors that NDT is not necessary and the building can be renovated. Although steel can burn (fast oxidation as opposed to slow-rust) it requires blast furnace temperatures, and structural fires rarely approach the required heat or burn time for that.
Do you think they fire proof steel beams for show?
#225. To: HOUNDDAWG (#224)
Do you make stuff up by pulling them out of your arse because you don't want to be one upped without a comeback? The planes slamming into the building scrapped the sprayed on fireproofing off the beams or the building would have stood up. That plus the unique design of using the outer skin as a load bearing wall also helped wealen the structure - if the WTC had been built in the classic design of internal steel girders then the building may have stood up at least below the impact zone. The spray-on fireproofing to the steel structure (beams, columns and decking) prevented the collapse of this Los Angeles high-rise in 1988. A sprinkler system had recently been installed but was not yet activated. The spray-on fireproofing saved lives and property. The First Interstate Bank Building was back in use a few months after the incident. http://www.concretethinking.org/main.asp?page=827 The ability of structural steel to withstand major fires is under scrutiny. The latest findings of the US-based National Institute of Standards and Technology into the collapse of the World Trade Center couple with the recent collapse in fire of the perimeter steel columns of the Madrid Windsor Torre building question the performance of structural steel in fires in high rise buildings. And it is not just in high rise buildings. The avocation by the UK Chief Fire Officers' Association of a boycott of fire fighters entering burning steel framed superstores and warehouses is also raising questions about the use of steel for low rise buildings reports Anna Scothern, Head of Performance at The Concrete Centre. http://www.emporis.com/en/bu/nc/ne/?id=101283 Madrid: A fire of an unknown source has affected one of Madrid's most famous skyscraper. The fire began at the 21st floor at about 22.30 GMT Saturday 12th of February and rapedly extended along the building. Torre Windsor had been under renovation works for the past year and fortunately the building remained empty. Part of the facade has collapsed and firefighters had to abandoned the building due to the risk of collpasing of the structure.
Fire Proofing is to protect insurance company stock holders, not occupants of steel framed structures.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#226. To: Destro (#225)
You sure are a smat ass. Actually my little baby blue eyed bouncing baby of a magic fall down building bot, we were wondering much the same thing about you.
"Do you make stuff up by pulling them out of your arse because you don't want to be one upped without a comeback?"
#227. To: Destro (#225)
Your above re-posted citation is moot. It is about posturing AFTER the false flag operations and as cover to prop up the extremely weak official story. Naturally people are going to investigate or call for agencies to investigate the steel to try to fudge over the obvious fact that there was not enough fire damage or heat to bring those buildings down that way especially that quickly.
http://www.concretethinking.org/main.asp?page=827
#228. To: RickyJ, Robin, Christine, Angle, Ferret Mike, Red Jones, SCOTTISH MOLE ALERT!!!!! (#196)
http://www.libertyforum.org/showprofile.php? Cat=&User=Destro&Board=consp_911&what=wwwthread s&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=21 Email Name James McCullen Destro XXIV Title agent provocateur Total Posts 4663 Fame 19 Homepage http://www.myuselessknowledge.com/joe/d estro.ht ml Occupation COBRA Hobbies Information Location Callander, Scotland Bio Formerly of FreeRepublic fame. ICQ Number Sponsor 1MDC Holding Registered on 08/02/05 06:36 PM Favorite Threads USS Cole attack mastermind escapes from prison by Destro Conspiracy theory was born in the Age of Enlightenment and has metastasized in the Age of Internet by Destro Lawyers in Moussaoui case grapple with FBI's role:Agent testifies it knew of al Qaeda pilot training by Destro A Half-Dozen Questions About 9/11 They Don't Want You to Ask by Destro The US May Have Delivered 200,000 AK-47s to Insurgents in Iraq by Destro Kill that Old [British] Hag! by Destro Spar was Threatened on http://FreeRepub lic.com by Spar 9/11: The "Catalyzing Event" by Destro
He is a Scottish mole.
Mark
The FBI, rather than trying to prevent a terrorist attack, was merely gathering intelligence so they would know who to arrest when a terrorist attack occurred.— Robert Wright - Former FBI agent
"At temperatures above 800º C structural steel loses 90 percent of its strength. Yet even when steel structures are heated to those temperatures, they never disintegrate into piles of rubble, as did the Twin Towers and Building 7."— Esso-Freedom4um - 10/23/2006
#229. To: Kamala (#228)
Title agent provocateur Total Posts 4663 Thanks laddie, We'll add him to the Scottish Hall of Shame.
Name James McCullen Destro XXIV
#230. To: Kamala (#228)
Well, Palo ain't here to do this, so here is some Scot's broom flowers to congratulate you on some kick as ferreting out of a scoundrel. ;-)
#231. To: Ferret Mike (#230)
That bouquet is too tasteful for a palo bouquet.
#232. To: robin (#231)
Maybe so my dear, but Scot's Broom is an invasive horror story that crowds out native plants destroying the integrity of an ecosystem. We have a terrible time trying to control it here in Oregon. Actually I think the plant fits the planted operator well. ;-)
"That bouquet is too tasteful for a palo bouquet."
#233. To: Kamala, Destro (#228)
Care to comment about your bio my little self described agent provocateur? We know you are out there. Come in and amuse us by trying vainly to convince us you are not shitting a brick over that posting about you.
#234. To: Ferret Mike (#226)
You may not agree with my sources but I post a source - you make stuff up - like fireproofing is only done for BS insurance purpuses.
You sure are a smat ass. Actually my little baby blue eyed bouncing baby of a magic fall down building bot, we were wondering much the same thing about you.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#235. To: Ferret Mike (#227)
You woul dthink people in the industry would be wise to this rather than repeating it.
Your above re-posted citation is moot. It is about posturing AFTER the false flag operations and as cover to prop up the extremely weak official story.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#236. To: Destro (#225)
What do cases of raging fires in high rises around the world have to do with the smokey little camp fires that burned briefly in NY? Hell, the buildings were down in an hour, and there no raging infernos according to the firefighter who calmly radioed that they could knock it down with two lines. (Actually one but he didn't want to be a hotdog) You are getting so frantic that you're projecting raging infernos from other parts of the world to the WTC, and putting up a smoke screen of bad language to boot. That ain't what happened. And, there will be no costly changes to the building codes. They know it's bullshit and so do you. And, too many Jewish landlords that are presently envious would start to squeal if they had to pay to maintain the lie! Even if there was no fireproofing, the heat sink effect of interconnected steel would never allow any of the skeleton to reach critical failure temperatures. The building would have been condemned, but that would have still left Silverstein with a cost prohibitive demolition. The estimated cost of the scaffolding alone was over two billion dollars! Instead of relying on frightened govt licensed "experts" (who saw what happened to the first who spoke the truth) you need to ask mathematicians to calculate the odds. It's no accident that not one has calculated the odds of three steel framed high rises owned by the same man collapsing the same day, and each into their own footprints! HAH! Can you say "Mathematically impossible"? And, then ask for the calculations on mysterious players betting that the airlines stocks would also freefall! And, since it's virtually impossible to buy untraceable stocks, why is it that those mystery "speculators" are yet to be identified? And, here is the simplest way to prove that you're shilling for the murdering bastards. Why don't you explain what FEMA could not and tell us why WTC 7 collapsed into it's own footprint? You dare not admit that you don't know, even though FEMA apparently doesn't. And that will be ample proof of your desperation to safely dismiss you as the govt/Zionist tool that you are. And NORAD does 100 intercepts a year without a miss, but that day they missed four, including a penetration into the most protected airspace in the world! What are the odds? Save your frantic, frightened obscene fairie tales for the kiddies. In fact, they'll know that you're either lying or demented or both soon enough. And then you won't be here to hurl insults anymore. I know what you're going to say. "Shit, fuck, cunt, piss, doo doo caca wee wee BJ", right?
#237. To: robin, Destro (#231)
I think Bistro Destro, the maestro of the government's 1st symphony of the dancing false flags crawled up his asshole and is trying to look as small as possible as he hides.
#238. To: Destro (#234) (Edited)
That post referenced your derogatory comment. Anyone doing a trace sees that, so cut the shit. That was not what I spoke of in that post. Someone else talked about fire proofing and insurance, I sure didn't.
You may not agree with my sources but I post a source - you make stuff up - like fireproofing is only done for BS insurance purposes.
#239. To: Ferret Mike, RickyJ, Robin, Christine, Angle, Red Jones, SCOTTISH MOLE ALERT!!!!! (#233) (Edited)
Care to comment about your bio my little self described agent provocateur?
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#240. To: Ferret Mike (#237)
DES-in-TRO-mation!!!!!!!!!
Mark
The FBI, rather than trying to prevent a terrorist attack, was merely gathering intelligence so they would know who to arrest when a terrorist attack occurred.— Robert Wright - Former FBI agent
"At temperatures above 800º C structural steel loses 90 percent of its strength. Yet even when steel structures are heated to those temperatures, they never disintegrate into piles of rubble, as did the Twin Towers and Building 7."— Esso-Freedom4um - 10/23/2006
#241. To: Ferret Mike (#233)
Jesus, I thought he was a grownup! LMAO! Ok, I get it now.
Care to comment about your bio my little self described agent provocateur? We know you are out there. Come in and amuse us by trying vainly to convince us you are not shitting a brick over that posting about you.
#242. To: HOUNDDAWG (#236)
That right there is a red flag. If there was a real threat of fires collapsing skyscrapers the codes would have been passed. All the "engineers" know deep down, fire didn't bring down the towers. It would cost trillions of dollars to upgrade all the highrises in the U.S.
And, there will be no costly changes to the building codes. They know it's bullshit and so do you. And, too many Jewish landlords that are presently envious would start to squeal if they had to pay to maintain the lie!
Mark
The FBI, rather than trying to prevent a terrorist attack, was merely gathering intelligence so they would know who to arrest when a terrorist attack occurred.— Robert Wright - Former FBI agent
"At temperatures above 800º C structural steel loses 90 percent of its strength. Yet even when steel structures are heated to those temperatures, they never disintegrate into piles of rubble, as did the Twin Towers and Building 7."— Esso-Freedom4um - 10/23/2006
#243. To: HOUNDDAWG, COMIC BOOK MOLE ALERT!!!!! (#241)
COMIC BOOK MOLE ALERT!!!!!
Mark
The FBI, rather than trying to prevent a terrorist attack, was merely gathering intelligence so they would know who to arrest when a terrorist attack occurred.— Robert Wright - Former FBI agent
"At temperatures above 800º C structural steel loses 90 percent of its strength. Yet even when steel structures are heated to those temperatures, they never disintegrate into piles of rubble, as did the Twin Towers and Building 7."— Esso-Freedom4um - 10/23/2006
#244. To: Ferret Mike (#232)
You're right! A Kiwi told me a similar story.
#245. To: Destro (#239) (Edited)
Wow, nice bio, and here I thought all this time you were Destro/Godwinson/Pericles and Spar formerly of the Free Republic.
#246. To: Kamala (#242)
All the "engineers" know deep down, fire didn't bring down the towers. It would cost trillions of dollars to upgrade all the highrises in the U.S. You got it! And, how many changes to the fire code have been passed so far? Better yet, who is even investigating it? HEADLINES YOU'LL NEVER SEE: *CONGRESS AUTHORIZES A BILLION TO REWRITE NFPA CODE!* I've installed massive transformers in buildings, and I know that if one of them catches fire and alters the structural steel above in any way, the building is totaled. It doesn't have to melt the steel, it only has to alter it's specs in any way and the insurance company is screwed. Fireproofing is cheap insurance against small fires, and it doesn't do much of anything against raging infernos which burn and blast it away like any other paper based product. Fire proofing (which is paper mache-soaked in flame retardent chemicals sprayed on wet) is to protect the steel from the low end of the fire spectrum. My Bible, The National Electrical Code is a chapter of the National Fire Code. I've worked with fire prevention for decades, so, I get a little weary when ignorance speaks the loudest. Let's hear from the "expert" again about how a paper-based coating on steel is all that stood between the WTC standing and collapsing! HAH!
That right there is a red flag. If there was a real threat of fires collapsing skyscrapers the codes would have been passed.
#247. To: Ferret Mike (#245)
I also went under the names Spar and Pericles and a half dozen others as well. And I will not let America forget what she did in the Balkans - the wars there are directly tied to 9/11. Blood for blood.
Wow, nice bio, and here I thought all this time you were Destro/Godwinson formerly of the Free Republic.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#248. To: Destro (#247) (Edited)
On that note you could yet be an emulator, but I know Destro well enough to know that would be a stupid game to play as the real Destro would eat your liver raw for doing that. I was also Pericles and Spar (both banned) before Destro. Then a few after Destro but banned right away. I also post on http://Libertyforum.org but that place is the zoo and my posts there are like they would be in the 'Biker Bar' section here. But I am thee Destro from FreeRepublic - those that knew my style there will vouch for me here. By the by - did you ever converse with me on FreeRepublic? Destro posted on 2006-02-16 12:24:57 ET Reply Trace http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi? ArtNum=129765&Disp=0 Yes, you told me once. In the thread at LP I got the above quoted post I mentioned we had conversed on Free Republic in a few of my returning bannee accounts. I know who you are.
32. To: ferret (#28)
#249. To: Ferret Mike (#248) (Edited)
I thought I was a CIA disifno agent to you. What is a shame is the open thinking atmosphere is gone even from here. Instead of engaging in conversation you all here (that I have conversed with on this issue) are no better than Freeper bots. Small minded - isolated - dogmatic, etc. I have a divergent theory on 9/11 - which is not light on the govt at all - but because I disagree with one aspect of the thinking of 9/11 - that the buildings were sabatoged as well as struck by planes - I am called a disinfo agent. Shame on you guys. I came here by accident - Libertypost was turning into another version of Freerepublic - the posts regarding the Israeli war in Lebanon turned me off. The Freeper bots just migrated to Libertypost. So by accident I see Freedom4um - and to my shock - they are just bots of another stripe. Sorry if that sounds harsh. It is a shame, really.
Yes, you told me once. In the thread at LP I got the above quoted post I mentioned we had conversed on Free Republic in a few of my returning bannee accounts.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#250. To: HOUNDDAWG (#246)
What you have stated is what Kevin Ryan former UL scientist has stated. In NISTS own reports, NIST built live scale floor load models of the twin towers. NIST conducted experiments with and without fireproofing. Each model was fired up at 2000 degrees for 2 hours. Neither model collapsed, or had any damage what so ever.
Mark
The FBI, rather than trying to prevent a terrorist attack, was merely gathering intelligence so they would know who to arrest when a terrorist attack occurred.— Robert Wright - Former FBI agent
"At temperatures above 800º C structural steel loses 90 percent of its strength. Yet even when steel structures are heated to those temperatures, they never disintegrate into piles of rubble, as did the Twin Towers and Building 7."— Esso-Freedom4um - 10/23/2006
#251. To: HOUNDDAWG (#246)
Here is another example of voodoo science. NIST claims that the airplane impact, scraped clean and removed all the fireproofing from all the girders, trusses, couplings and the main core over multiple floors. Then NIST gives no proof or examples or research how this could be done or where all the needed energy would come from to symmetrically remove this over all the floors.
Let's hear from the "expert" again about how a paper-based coating on steel is all that stood between the WTC standing and collapsing!
Mark
The FBI, rather than trying to prevent a terrorist attack, was merely gathering intelligence so they would know who to arrest when a terrorist attack occurred.— Robert Wright - Former FBI agent
"At temperatures above 800º C structural steel loses 90 percent of its strength. Yet even when steel structures are heated to those temperatures, they never disintegrate into piles of rubble, as did the Twin Towers and Building 7."— Esso-Freedom4um - 10/23/2006
#252. To: Kamala (#250)
Neither model collapsed, or had any damage what so ever. well, well, funny how some are sticking to theories that even NIST has abandoned, isn't it?
NIST conducted experiments with and without fireproofing. Each model was fired up at 2000 degrees for 2 hours.
#253. To: christine (#252)
I've seen the NIST videos and photos of the floor model tests. It was really something to see. Giant open fire furnaces blowing right on the floor girders and trusses. NIST didn't "like" the results, so they went to computer modeling.
Mark
The FBI, rather than trying to prevent a terrorist attack, was merely gathering intelligence so they would know who to arrest when a terrorist attack occurred.— Robert Wright - Former FBI agent
"At temperatures above 800º C structural steel loses 90 percent of its strength. Yet even when steel structures are heated to those temperatures, they never disintegrate into piles of rubble, as did the Twin Towers and Building 7."— Esso-Freedom4um - 10/23/2006
#254. To: Kamala (#251)
Good posts.
#255. To: Destro (#249)
What is a shame is the open thinking atmosphere is gone even from here. Instead of engaging in conversation you all here (that I have conversed with on this issue) are no better than Freeper bots. Small minded - isolated - dogmatic, etc." Actually Destro, other then finding your denial of the obvious, I took what everyone as saying to be more tongue in cheek then you take it. For example when I saw the G.I Joe grade Bio I laughed until I cried, there is more tongue in cheek humor here then you are detecting. Why don't you relax and keep on conversing? The atmosphere here can be sharp and derisive, as many here did cut their teeth on Café Paranoia (FR). But you have a right to your opinion - however wrong it is - if you can roll with the flow and not let anyone see you sweat, you are fine, I wouldn't worry about it.
"I thought I was a CIA disifno agent to you.
#256. To: Ferret Mike (#255)
Mike, he's not here to relax...he's working.
#257. To: Destro (#249)
What's a shame is that you're a shill disrupting every demolition thread with your trash. You're not here for discussion...you've made that abundantly clear. Take your poor me act and shove it.
Mole Alert.
#258. To: Destro (#249)
Feel free to leave. The towers and wtc7 were demo'ed. BushCheneyInc et al are responsible. Inevitably, they will be made accountable. More and more Americans are understanding this fact. Your shilling to the contrary is pissing in the wind.
I came here by accident...Freedom4um...they are just bots of another stripe.
#259. To: Ferret Mike, Kamala (#255)
I am talking about the inability of people here to come to logical conclusions - sorry I take the accusation of mole to be this websites equivalent of Freeperbots using 'troll' and 'DUmmies'. What I found even funnier is that that Kamala - named after fat black WWF wrestler from the 80s? - went looking for my profile and found my COBRA file and exposed this fact to world!
Actually Destro, other then finding your denial of the obvious, I took what everyone as saying to be more tongue in cheek then you take it.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#260. To: angle, Ferret Mike (#256)
Booga! Booga!! Free Slobo!!! Oh, wait - they killed him. The reason I came to this article? My radar blinked when I saw 'military expert' associated with 9/11... Who is stringing who along?
Mike, he's not here to relax...he's working.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#261. To: angle (#258)
You can get me banned like they used to on freerepublic.
Feel free to leave.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#262. To: Destro (#259)
What is a COBRA file?
went looking for my profile and found my COBRA file and exposed this fact to world!
#263. To: tom007 (#262)
See Kamala's expose about me @ #228 - 239 - Will he call GI JOE to come get me?
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#264. To: tom007 (#262)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destro
#265. To: Destro (#263)
We'll let Estroy do that seeing how you are wearing his steel mask.
"Will he call GI JOE to come get me?"
#266. To: Ferret Mike (#264)
That is funny as hell. It fits with the ironic sense of black humor displayed by our adversaries in the netherworld.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destro
“The tendency of democracies is, in all things, to mediocrity, since the tastes, knowledge, and principles of the majority form the tribunal of appeal.” James Fenimore Cooper
#267. To: Destro (#263)
I saw it and it does not to me explain much.
See Kamala's expose about me @ #228 - 239 - Will he call GI JOE to come get me?
#268. To: Destro (#215)
I wonder what the ballistic coefficient is for perimeter columns. Do you have any idea how fast they had to be moving to travel as far away from the building as they did? Compressed air didn't do that. lol
Do I hear a fat lady singing?
#269. To: Destro (#249)
By accident you came here? So where were trying to go when you mistyped http://freedom4um.com into your browser?
So by accident I see Freedom4um - and to my shock - they are just bots of another stripe.
God is always good!
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#270. To: Critter (#268)
And they got them around the columns how??? You guys think they just stuck the explosives on the wall and set some wires and a remote detonator in like in the movies?
I wonder what the ballistic coefficient is for perimeter columns. Do you have any idea how fast they had to be moving to travel as far away from the building as they did? Compressed air didn't do that. lol
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#271. To: RickyJ (#269) (Edited)
I did a google search for forums - then I saw when I got here familiar names.
By accident you came here?
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#272. To: Destro (#270)
You guys think that fires that have almost burned themselves out caused two enormous towers to explode into dust just like in the moevies?
You guys think they just stuck the explosives on the wall and set some wires and a remote detonator in like in the movies?
The SS and other Gestapo like US Government agents spying on this site should go suck a horse's ass!
#273. To: Critter (#272)
Who says they almost burned themselves out? A vee-dee-oo from the internet you saw? Did you all forget that the that pile of rubble was smouldering days and days after?
You guys think that fires that have almost burned themselves out caused two enormous towers to explode into dust just like in the moevies?
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
#274. To: Destro (#273)
Who says they didn't? The firefighter's in the tower on the radio said they had two isolated pockets of fire. People standing in the openings created by the planes say that the fires are almost burned out. In other words, the evidence suggests that the fires were almost out. Those who say otherwise are the believers of fairy tales.
Who says they almost burned themselves out?
The SS and other Gestapo like US Government agents spying on this site should go suck a horse's ass!
#275. To: Critter (#274)
The fact that the Ground Zero debris pile was a smoldeing mound is evidence enough don't you think? You forgot this fact?
Who says they didn't?
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
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