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Religion
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Title: College removes cross – from chapel!
Source: WND
URL Source: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52646
Published: Oct 27, 2006
Author: Staff
Post Date: 2006-10-27 12:39:53 by bluegrass
Ping List: *New History*
Keywords: None
Views: 4391
Comments: 252

The cross from the altar area of the chapel at the College of William & Mary in Williamsburg, Va., has been removed to ensure the space is seen as a nondenominational area, explains Melissa Engimann, assistant director for Historic Campus.

"In order to make the Wren Chapel less of a faith-specific space, and to make it more welcoming to students, faculty, staff and visitors of all faiths, the cross has been removed from the altar area," Engimann announced in an e-mail to staff.

The cross will be returned to the altar for those who wish to use it for events, services or private prayer.

The cross was in place because of the college's former association with the Anglican Church. Though the college is now nondenominational and became publicly supported in 1906, the room will still be considered a chapel, college officials said.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 109.

#1. To: bluegrass (#0)

This is kind of a private matter - it's not like this came from a court order, etc.

So it really is non of our business.

Destro  posted on  2006-10-27   12:50:33 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

The chapel is part of the Wren Building, the oldest academic building in America. It's had a cross in it since the chapel was added in 1732.

This is akin to what the Bolsheviks did to Russian religious history during their tyranny.

bluegrass  posted on  2006-10-27   13:05:31 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

The chapel is part of the Wren Building, the oldest academic building in America. It's had a cross in it since the chapel was added in 1732.

It's a private matter - none of my business or yours.

Destro  posted on  2006-10-27   14:16:00 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

It's a private matter - none of my business or yours.

I live in Virginia. W&M is a "public" school.

It's my biz.

bluegrass  posted on  2006-10-27   14:20:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I live in Virginia. W&M is a "public" school.

Then the cross should be removed since the state should not fund a religous specific chapel.

Destro  posted on  2006-10-27   14:22:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

By that reasoning, the publicly funded 'Holocaust' Museum in DC should have all of the six-pointed stars removed.

The larger issue is that the State has no business supporting universities.

bluegrass  posted on  2006-10-27   14:25:25 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

By that reasoning, the publicly funded 'Holocaust' Museum in DC should have all of the six-pointed stars removed.

A) I am against the existence of the Holocaust musuem in America - if it should exist anywhere it should be in Berlin/Europe.

With that said:

B) The Star of David was used as a identifying symbol by the Nazis so you could not have it removed from a museum that touches on the subject.

C) Was not the schismatic and heretical Anglican church founded by an overweight serial killer?

Destro  posted on  2006-10-27   14:28:56 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

The German Nazis used the genocide and 'ethnic cleansing' of Native Americans as one of the models to plan and execute their genocide and ethnic cleansing of those they found odious.

I would keep the museum and make the Shoah exhibit a wing. It needs exhibits showing what happened to 'New World' peoples, and to peoples in all the other corners of the world when their particular 'holocausts' happened.

The lesson that the museum teaches is an important one, it just need to be reorganized and changed to show that this is a sort of thing that has happened in different degrees at different times in human history.

To make it just cover the Shoah, it sends the false message that what the Nazis did was highly unusual, when in fact, it isn't. The museum is needed because this sort of thing will happen again if we don't use all the tools at our disposal to remember history to keep from repeating it.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2006-10-27   14:39:36 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

The German Nazis used the genocide and 'ethnic cleansing' of Native Americans as one of the models to plan and execute their genocide and ethnic cleansing of those they found odious.

I don't know if any Nazi ever said that but they did openly modeled their laws on the Jews on the American South's Jim Crow laws.

Destro  posted on  2006-10-27   15:01:14 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

In Nazi Germany, Jews were prohibited by law from marrying non-Jews. There's only one country in the world that still has this law: Israel.

bluegrass  posted on  2006-10-27   15:15:34 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

In Nazi Germany, Jews were prohibited by law from marrying non-Jews. There's only one country in the world that still has this law: Israel.

The Jim Crow laws of the South - including laws against race mixing - were defended by referring to the Old Testament as recently as the 1960s.

The Nazi legal system was based on the American Jim Crow laws.

Destro  posted on  2006-10-27   15:40:47 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

The Nazi legal system was based on the American Jim Crow laws.

As you yourself stated that the Jim Crow laws were also based on the OT, it's only logical that the Nazi laws were based on the same older source. It's a pretzel twisting of logic otherwise.

Streicher himself says that the Nazi race laws were based on the Mosaic laws.

bluegrass  posted on  2006-10-27   15:52:34 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Which is why our Founding Fathers made this a secular nation.

Destro  posted on  2006-10-27   15:54:03 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

That's beside the point.

The Nazi race laws were based on Mosaic laws. The followers of that Mosaic law are now ensconced in the power structure of this so-called "secular nation".

bluegrass  posted on  2006-10-27   16:04:30 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

That's beside the point.

That's exactly the point of this article - secular republic - see conversation above before you introduced the 'Star of David' into the duscussion.

Destro  posted on  2006-10-27   16:10:12 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

That's exactly the point of this article - secular republic

I think the article deals with how political correctness overtakes what should be common sense. This college has a historic association with Christianity, ergo the cross in its chapel. The US gov't did not ram a cross into this chapel and promote Christianity as the nation's favorite religion. This cross was in this chapel for how many decades with how many hundreds of students of various denominations coming into the chapel to pray to their own individual Lord, without feeling they were being brow beaten into converting to Protestantism. And now some idiot PC ( or maybe aetheist) desk jockey at W&M is using the excuse of "well this is a tax supported school now" and "well the chapel should be non-denominational because it's all the room we've got for prayer and someone (?) might get offended if we don't make this change"...puhleaze this is so transparent. How can you argue that this obvious PC ploy relates to separation of state and religion...you are better than pushing this type of limp wristed milque toast rationale, destro...

scrapper2  posted on  2006-10-27   16:36:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I think the article deals with how political correctness overtakes what should be common sense.

It's not an example of political correctness - the chapel is being designated for non denominational use - like thousands of such chapels in school and hospitals all over America including the military.

Such chapels have no outward signs of religous denomination and symbols are brought ina nd out depending on the services given.

This school long ago gave up its denominational links. W&M is not the property of you or the people - they can do whatever they like.

This is like me getting upset some Protestnat denominations ordain women while at the same time I am not a Protestant. None of my business.

Destro  posted on  2006-10-27   16:57:15 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

W&M is not the property of you or the people - they can do whatever they like.

This is like me getting upset some Protestnat denominations ordain women while at the same time I am not a Protestant. None of my business.

This is a taxpayer supported college. W&M is not private; it used to be private but not any longer. It is "our" property.

And why are you jumping all over the map with your arguments to support W&M's decision? At first you said that there should be separation between gov't and religion. Now you're claiming this is a private matter even though it says quite clearly in the article that W&M receives taxpayer (gov't) support.

"Though the college is now nondenominational and became publicly supported in 1906..."

scrapper2  posted on  2006-10-27   17:15:17 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

This is a taxpayer supported college. W&M is not private; it used to be private but not any longer. It is "our" property.

Even more reason to remove the cross since this "space is seen as a nondenominational area".

Destro  posted on  2006-10-28   15:30:44 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

destro: W&M is not the property of you or the people - they can do whatever they like. This is like me getting upset some Protestnat denominations ordain women while at the same time I am not a Protestant. None of my business.

scrapper: This is a taxpayer supported college. W&M is not private; it used to be private but not any longer. It is "our" property.

And why are you jumping all over the map with your arguments to support W&M's decision? At first you said that there should be separation between gov't and religion. Now you're claiming this is a private matter even though it says quite clearly in the article that W&M receives taxpayer (gov't) support.

"Though the college is now nondenominational and became publicly supported in 1906..."

destro: Even more reason to remove the cross since this "space is seen as a nondenominational area".

Oh stop it, your flip flops in the positions you have taken in the course of arguing the merits of W&M's decision fool no one and the ensuing spin only give me a headache like watching the theatrics of a Linda Blair understudy for the Exorcist role.

scrapper2  posted on  2006-10-28   16:18:25 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

#111. To: scrapper2 (#109) (Edited)

At first you said that there should be separation between gov't and religion. Now you're claiming this is a private matter even though it says quite clearly in the article that W&M receives taxpayer (gov't) support.

What is the contradiction there? W&M is not my property nor yours - mind your business.

Destro  posted on  2006-10-28 17:08:37 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

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