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Religion
See other Religion Articles

Title: College removes cross – from chapel!
Source: WND
URL Source: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52646
Published: Oct 27, 2006
Author: Staff
Post Date: 2006-10-27 12:39:53 by bluegrass
Ping List: *New History*
Keywords: None
Views: 4341
Comments: 252

The cross from the altar area of the chapel at the College of William & Mary in Williamsburg, Va., has been removed to ensure the space is seen as a nondenominational area, explains Melissa Engimann, assistant director for Historic Campus.

"In order to make the Wren Chapel less of a faith-specific space, and to make it more welcoming to students, faculty, staff and visitors of all faiths, the cross has been removed from the altar area," Engimann announced in an e-mail to staff.

The cross will be returned to the altar for those who wish to use it for events, services or private prayer.

The cross was in place because of the college's former association with the Anglican Church. Though the college is now nondenominational and became publicly supported in 1906, the room will still be considered a chapel, college officials said.

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#197. To: Destro, scrapper2 (#196)

You cannot compare the attitudes and superstitions of people from centuries ago to those of today. Well if you can compare them that shows just how "advanced" that modern nation must actually be.

And again, the reason the Founding Fathers went out of their way not to specify any Christian denomination over another, but to insure religious freedom for all, including future generations, is because they were learned Christians, who understood the teachings of Christianity itself; free will, the equality of man, do unto others as you would have them do unto you (The Golden Rule), etc..

Most Profound Man in Iraq — An unidentified farmer in a fairly remote area who, after being asked by Reconnaissance Marines if he had seen any foreign fighters in the area replied "Yes, you."

robin  posted on  2006-10-30   11:16:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#198. To: robin (#197)

Some where Christians some were not. The 'some were not' part is what you deny.

"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom

Destro  posted on  2006-10-30   11:21:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#199. To: Destro (#198)

Jefferson was not, but a deist; Washington and most of them were.

And even those who were not, would have had the benefit of early Christian teachings to help form their ideas.

Most Profound Man in Iraq — An unidentified farmer in a fairly remote area who, after being asked by Reconnaissance Marines if he had seen any foreign fighters in the area replied "Yes, you."

robin  posted on  2006-10-30   11:25:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#200. To: robin (#199)

Stop dancing around the issue - you are for the imposition of religious values on people.

"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom

Destro  posted on  2006-10-30   11:31:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#201. To: Destro (#200)

Stop dancing around the issue - you are for the imposition of religious values on people.

If by "imposition of religious values" you mean I think that all men are created equal, that all men are equal under that law, that a man has the right to stand before his accuser, and the right to a speedy trial, that torture is morally wrong, that murder is morally wrong, that we all have the right to private property, freedom of speech, to learn to read, etc; yes, these values (religious or otherwise), I would impose on people.

These are also values that Christians hold dear and I gave the example of Israel to make my point that not all democracies believe these values are important to uphold.

Of course, GW Bush has changed all that, we're looking more like Israel everyday. They have 9,000 Palestinians rotting in jail, without any due process. We're new at this, and the Bush govt won't even say how many they have tortured and sent to secret prisons.

Most Profound Man in Iraq — An unidentified farmer in a fairly remote area who, after being asked by Reconnaissance Marines if he had seen any foreign fighters in the area replied "Yes, you."

robin  posted on  2006-10-30   11:46:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#202. To: robin (#201)

If by "imposition of religious values" you mean

teaching creationisim or having prayer in school.

"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom

Destro  posted on  2006-10-30   12:05:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#203. To: Destro (#202)

teaching creationisim or having prayer in school.

I don't think these should be mandatory, but private schools should be allowed to, of course. I don't see a problem with "a moment of silence", no one is saying how to spend those few minutes. I would prefer that Evolution be taught as a theory, not as fact (which in a way it is, without any other choice).

Most Profound Man in Iraq — An unidentified farmer in a fairly remote area who, after being asked by Reconnaissance Marines if he had seen any foreign fighters in the area replied "Yes, you."

robin  posted on  2006-10-30   12:19:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#204. To: ..., Destro, scrapper2, robin, Diana, christine, Cynicom, Ferret Mike, mehitable (#149)

Here are some good quotes from the founding fathers on this subject:

Can you direct me to the quotes where the founding fathers advocate the removal of crosses from Christian chapels on campuses? What if we were to go into synagogues and mosques on campuses and remove their symbols, turning their houses of worship into 'non-denominational' spaces? They wouldn't mind, would they?

I'm appalled that anyone would agree with this outrage to Christianity, and to religious belief in general, in America.

"...it is unlawful in the ordinary course of things or in a private house to murder a child; it should not be permitted any sect then to sacrifice children." -Thomas Jefferson

bluegrass  posted on  2006-10-30   13:18:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#205. To: bluegrass (#204)

The West, including America, is determined to commit cultural suicide. There is so much self-loathing among our "intelligentsia" that they really should all just join hands and jump off the Golden Gate Bridge in one mass plunge.

"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."

mehitable  posted on  2006-10-30   14:09:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#206. To: mehitable (#205)

The West, including America, is determined to commit cultural suicide.

We committed cultural suicide in 1913. It's taken this long for the corpse to rot.

"...it is unlawful in the ordinary course of things or in a private house to murder a child; it should not be permitted any sect then to sacrifice children." -Thomas Jefferson

bluegrass  posted on  2006-10-30   14:14:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#207. To: bluegrass (#204)

What if we were to go into synagogues and mosques on campuses and remove their symbols, turning their houses of worship into 'non-denominational' spaces? They wouldn't mind, would they?

Nah, it's all for a good cause. I forget what is the purpose?

Most Profound Man in Iraq — An unidentified farmer in a fairly remote area who, after being asked by Reconnaissance Marines if he had seen any foreign fighters in the area replied "Yes, you."

robin  posted on  2006-10-30   14:21:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#208. To: bluegrass (#204)

What if we were to go into synagogues and mosques on campuses and remove their symbols, turning their houses of worship into 'non-denominational' spaces?

that wouldn't be PC !

christine  posted on  2006-10-30   14:30:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#209. To: robin (#203)

I would prefer that Evolution be taught as a theory, not as fact (which in a way it is, without any other choice).

Theory in relation to science does not mean a guess.

Like Music theory. Art theory. The theory of gravity.

"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom

Destro  posted on  2006-10-30   15:14:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#210. To: bluegrass, ..., scrapper2, robin, Diana, christine, Cynicom, Ferret Mike, mehitable (#204)

Can you direct me to the quotes where the founding fathers advocate the removal of crosses from Christian chapels on campuses?

If it's not my church why should I care? I consider female clergy an abomination before God - you don't see me torching heretical Protestant churches with female priests and bishops do you? (All Protestants are heretics).

Plenty of Protestant churches change with the wind. Their right. None of my business. Thank God.

"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom

Destro  posted on  2006-10-30   15:17:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#211. To: Destro, ..., scrapper2, robin, Diana, christine, Cynicom, Ferret Mike, mehitable (#210)

If it's not my church why should I care?

Dunno. You're all over this thread so you must care on some level. You certainly don't seem to care about Christian chapels being de-Christianized.

"...it is unlawful in the ordinary course of things or in a private house to murder a child; it should not be permitted any sect then to sacrifice children." -Thomas Jefferson

bluegrass  posted on  2006-10-31   12:33:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#212. To: bluegrass, ..., scrapper2, robin, Diana, christine, Cynicom, Ferret Mike, mehitable (#211)

Dunno. You're all over this thread so you must care on some level. You certainly don't seem to care about Christian chapels being de-Christianized.

A) I tend not to consider Protestants true Christians so that may be why I don't get all upset also and most importantly - none of my business.

B) I do care if others use these issues to make up a crusade.

"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom

Destro  posted on  2006-10-31   12:37:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#213. To: Destro (#212)

most importantly - none of my business.

So why are you on this thread?

"...it is unlawful in the ordinary course of things or in a private house to murder a child; it should not be permitted any sect then to sacrifice children." -Thomas Jefferson

bluegrass  posted on  2006-10-31   12:45:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#214. To: Destro (#212)

The basic doctrine of Christianity is shared by Protestants, Roman Catholics and Greek Orthodox.

That is, that Christ is God Incarnate, the existence of the Holy Spirit, the Holy Trinity, the virgin birth.

The Vatican acknowledges this shared faith, permitting Protestants to participate in Communion; I don't know about the Orthodox.

There are certainly differences in tradition and interpretation of some Scripture, but not the really important ones that define Christianity.

Most Profound Man in Iraq — An unidentified farmer in a fairly remote area who, after being asked by Reconnaissance Marines if he had seen any foreign fighters in the area replied "Yes, you."

robin  posted on  2006-10-31   12:57:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#215. To: bluegrass, Destro (#211) (Edited)

If it's not my church why should I care?

Dunno. You're all over this thread so you must care on some level. You certainly don't seem to care about Christian chapels being de-Christianized.

He also advocates disunity among Christendom. What's that about if he is not a Christian? He posted he is not Greek Orthodox, so why bother?
And he hates America and he hates Muslims; he has posted so in very strong terms that would have him in trouble if it were another group he was posting about.

Yet this American government that he hates, he backs completely when it comes to the official story about 9/11.

Correct me if I have mischaracterized you Destro.

Most Profound Man in Iraq — An unidentified farmer in a fairly remote area who, after being asked by Reconnaissance Marines if he had seen any foreign fighters in the area replied "Yes, you."

robin  posted on  2006-10-31   13:24:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#216. To: robin (#215)

the official story about 9/11.

When it comes to separating the conditioned sheep from the other barnyard animals, that's the new line of demarcation for me.

"...it is unlawful in the ordinary course of things or in a private house to murder a child; it should not be permitted any sect then to sacrifice children." -Thomas Jefferson

bluegrass  posted on  2006-10-31   13:39:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#217. To: bluegrass (#216)

It could mean even more than that.

Did you catch this Madsen report?

Lani Kass: Israeli Defense Force veteran heading up Air Force Cyberpace warriors. (WMR)

Most Profound Man in Iraq — An unidentified farmer in a fairly remote area who, after being asked by Reconnaissance Marines if he had seen any foreign fighters in the area replied "Yes, you."

robin  posted on  2006-10-31   13:45:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#218. To: robin (#215)

Yet this American government that he hates, he backs completely when it comes to the official story about 9/11.

Correct me if I have mischaracterized you Destro.

Wrong on all counts.

"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom

Destro  posted on  2006-10-31   13:58:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#219. To: Destro (#218)

Wrong on all counts.

How so?

Most Profound Man in Iraq — An unidentified farmer in a fairly remote area who, after being asked by Reconnaissance Marines if he had seen any foreign fighters in the area replied "Yes, you."

robin  posted on  2006-10-31   14:02:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#220. To: robin (#219)

I don't hate America - I hate her foreign policy (see Kosovo and Bosnia) and in some cases how she has strayed from her constitution where so called conservatives like you actually want the govt involved in some areas but not involved in others. Basically, you types what the govt on your side and when its not on your side advocating your position then you bitch about govt interference.

I don't accept the whole govt story on 9/11 - I just scoff at the notion of a Rube Goldberg like conspiracy where there is coordination between the flights and a whole ground team of demolition experts who prepped the sight with explosives days or hours in advance. That's an example of limited American intellect not able to grasp how the real world works.

I try not to hate Muslims but what's to like? Their whole belief system is alien to my classical Western sensibilities and they are hostile to the way the West thinks - while other alien cultures like Hinduisim for example and Japanese Shintoisim seem to co-exist fine with the West.

"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom

Destro  posted on  2006-10-31   14:15:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#221. To: robin (#215)

He also advocates disunity among Christendom. What's that about if he is not a Christian?

What Christians? American Christians who did what they did to Serbia? That back Turkey over Greek Cyprus? Those Christians? I am sure you guys are the exception - sorry in America the exception is not the rule.

"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom

Destro  posted on  2006-10-31   14:17:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#222. To: Destro (#220)

I don't accept the whole govt story on 9/11 - I just scoff at the notion of a Rube Goldberg like conspiracy where there is coordination between the flights and a whole ground team of demolition experts who prepped the sight with explosives days or hours in advance. That's an example of limited American intellect not able to grasp how the real world works.

We've been over this and you could not disprove any of the evidence presented on any of the 9/11 threads.

how she has strayed from her constitution where so called conservatives like you actually want the govt involved in some areas but not involved in others.

I want the government involved only as far as the Constitution allows, which is some but not much. Labels don't mean much anymore.

Most Profound Man in Iraq — An unidentified farmer in a fairly remote area who, after being asked by Reconnaissance Marines if he had seen any foreign fighters in the area replied "Yes, you."

robin  posted on  2006-10-31   14:38:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#223. To: robin (#222)

We've been over this and you could not disprove any of the evidence presented on any of the 9/11 threads.

1) You can't prove a negative.

2) You guys have not proved a thing - where are your court cases? If your evidence is good enough go to court and charge the govt with wrongful death and get a jury of your peers to agree or rise up and start killing the govt men.

"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom

Destro  posted on  2006-10-31   14:54:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#224. To: Destro, robin (#223)

1) You can't prove a negative.

It's not about proving negatives. There's no evidence to back up the original claims of 19 Arabs hijacking planes.

"...it is unlawful in the ordinary course of things or in a private house to murder a child; it should not be permitted any sect then to sacrifice children." -Thomas Jefferson

bluegrass  posted on  2006-10-31   14:58:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#225. To: bluegrass (#224)

There's no evidence to back up the original claims of 19 Arabs hijacking planes.

Why not? I saw America training and arming thousands of jihadi Muslims in the 90s so they can do their master's bidding.

See Bosnia and Kosovo (where the 9/11 Muslims organized from with help from MI6 and the CIA and Pentagon).

"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom

Destro  posted on  2006-10-31   15:05:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#226. To: Destro (#225)

Then post the hard evidence of 19 Arabs hijacking planes on 9/11. It should be easy to do.

"...it is unlawful in the ordinary course of things or in a private house to murder a child; it should not be permitted any sect then to sacrifice children." -Thomas Jefferson

bluegrass  posted on  2006-10-31   15:07:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#227. To: bluegrass (#226)

Then post the hard evidence of 19 Arabs hijacking planes on 9/11. It should be easy to do.

Prove they were not.

Like I said I accept the hypothesis of collusion between the CIA and al-Qaeda. I accept that 9/11 was either a collusion (they worked with al-Qaeda) or omission (it was allowed to happen) or blow-back.

You on the other hand are a deluded dogmatist who thinks he has all the inside knowledge by virtue of some sort of psychic osmosis of fact you have no first hand knowledge about.

"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom

Destro  posted on  2006-10-31   15:19:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#228. To: Destro (#227)

Prove they were not.

You just contradicted yourself. Gain a little consistency and you'll be worth debating.

"...it is unlawful in the ordinary course of things or in a private house to murder a child; it should not be permitted any sect then to sacrifice children." -Thomas Jefferson

bluegrass  posted on  2006-10-31   15:27:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#229. To: bluegrass (#228)

You just contradicted yourself. Gain a little consistency and you'll be worth debating.

Pray tell show me where. I am used to the prattling of dim witted Americans - I relish this opportunity for one to show me up.

"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom

Destro  posted on  2006-10-31   15:29:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#230. To: Destro, robin (#229)

In post #223, you stated: "You can't prove a negative" and then you asked that a negative be proven.

A little consistency would serve you well.

"...it is unlawful in the ordinary course of things or in a private house to murder a child; it should not be permitted any sect then to sacrifice children." -Thomas Jefferson

bluegrass  posted on  2006-10-31   15:32:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#231. To: Destro (#229)

Pray tell show me where. I am used to the prattling of dim witted Americans - I relish this opportunity for one to show me up.

Several posters have many times on several threads.

Your cartoon identity was also revealed.

Most Profound Man in Iraq — An unidentified farmer in a fairly remote area who, after being asked by Reconnaissance Marines if he had seen any foreign fighters in the area replied "Yes, you."

robin  posted on  2006-10-31   15:36:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#232. To: robin, bluegrass (#231)

In post #223, you stated: "You can't prove a negative" and then you asked that a negative be proven.

A little consistency would serve you well.

Occam's razor. The simplest explanation is usually the right one.

Evidence does exist which I am sure you do not accept of Arabs in the airplanes.

The communication with air traffic controllers by the Arabs, the video from the security cameras showing them at the airport.

I am sure that you will find reasons enough to reject such facts but what that is not a sign of no evidence - just evidence you discount.

On the other hand you have nothing to indicate that what took the place on those airplanes to make them act as they did - unless you delve into robot planes and such.

Americans are not a bright people - hence their being butchered in Iraq.

"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom

Destro  posted on  2006-10-31   15:47:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#233. To: Destro, robin (#232)

The simplest explanation is usually the right one.

There's no video from Logan. None. Please post all the links to video that you know of. You'd be the first person to be able to find any video from the primary airports.

Address the issue of why you insist that others debate in a manner that you're not willing to also follow.

"...it is unlawful in the ordinary course of things or in a private house to murder a child; it should not be permitted any sect then to sacrifice children." -Thomas Jefferson

bluegrass  posted on  2006-10-31   15:50:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#234. To: bluegrass (#233)

Sorry, Occam's Razor still slices to ribbons your robot airplane theory.

Come up with something that trumps Occam's razor if you can.

"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom

Destro  posted on  2006-10-31   15:55:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#235. To: Destro (#234)

Invoking Occam's razor after a blatant self-contradiction is lame.

Take the beam out of your eye before trying to tell me what's wrong with my sight.

"...it is unlawful in the ordinary course of things or in a private house to murder a child; it should not be permitted any sect then to sacrifice children." -Thomas Jefferson

bluegrass  posted on  2006-10-31   15:57:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#236. To: Destro (#232)

Americans are not a bright people - hence their being butchered in Iraq.

The Bush Cabal is full of idiots, especially in Cheney's office; they're NeoConservatives who sprang from Straussian Trotskyites. Wolfowitz promised it would be a cake walk that would require just a few troops, since our troops would be welcomed as liberators. That's the NeoCons that are running this war, not the American people, the polls show the people want out of this war.

That the WTC was a demolition is the simplest explanation. Pancaking buildings do not fall at that rate. They fell into their own footprint, there are even variously sourced videos showing the typical squibs known to the industry. But then, this has been explained to you many times now.

It looks just like a demolition. That's the simplest answer.

And then there's Lucky Larry Silverstein.

Plenty of motive too. The NeoCons published how much they wanted "a new Pearl Harbor" event to justify all their wars.

Most Profound Man in Iraq — An unidentified farmer in a fairly remote area who, after being asked by Reconnaissance Marines if he had seen any foreign fighters in the area replied "Yes, you."

robin  posted on  2006-10-31   15:59:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#237. To: robin (#236)

That the WTC was a demolition is the simplest explanation.

Only if you are ignorant.

"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom

Destro  posted on  2006-10-31   16:01:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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