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Religion
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Title: College removes cross – from chapel!
Source: WND
URL Source: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52646
Published: Oct 27, 2006
Author: Staff
Post Date: 2006-10-27 12:39:53 by bluegrass
Ping List: *New History*
Keywords: None
Views: 4320
Comments: 252

The cross from the altar area of the chapel at the College of William & Mary in Williamsburg, Va., has been removed to ensure the space is seen as a nondenominational area, explains Melissa Engimann, assistant director for Historic Campus.

"In order to make the Wren Chapel less of a faith-specific space, and to make it more welcoming to students, faculty, staff and visitors of all faiths, the cross has been removed from the altar area," Engimann announced in an e-mail to staff.

The cross will be returned to the altar for those who wish to use it for events, services or private prayer.

The cross was in place because of the college's former association with the Anglican Church. Though the college is now nondenominational and became publicly supported in 1906, the room will still be considered a chapel, college officials said.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 70.

#1. To: bluegrass (#0)

This is kind of a private matter - it's not like this came from a court order, etc.

So it really is non of our business.

Destro  posted on  2006-10-27   12:50:33 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

The chapel is part of the Wren Building, the oldest academic building in America. It's had a cross in it since the chapel was added in 1732.

This is akin to what the Bolsheviks did to Russian religious history during their tyranny.

bluegrass  posted on  2006-10-27   13:05:31 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

The chapel is part of the Wren Building, the oldest academic building in America. It's had a cross in it since the chapel was added in 1732.

It's a private matter - none of my business or yours.

Destro  posted on  2006-10-27   14:16:00 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

It's a private matter - none of my business or yours.

I live in Virginia. W&M is a "public" school.

It's my biz.

bluegrass  posted on  2006-10-27   14:20:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I live in Virginia. W&M is a "public" school.

Then the cross should be removed since the state should not fund a religous specific chapel.

Destro  posted on  2006-10-27   14:22:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

By that reasoning, the publicly funded 'Holocaust' Museum in DC should have all of the six-pointed stars removed.

The larger issue is that the State has no business supporting universities.

bluegrass  posted on  2006-10-27   14:25:25 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

By that reasoning, the publicly funded 'Holocaust' Museum in DC should have all of the six-pointed stars removed.

A) I am against the existence of the Holocaust musuem in America - if it should exist anywhere it should be in Berlin/Europe.

With that said:

B) The Star of David was used as a identifying symbol by the Nazis so you could not have it removed from a museum that touches on the subject.

C) Was not the schismatic and heretical Anglican church founded by an overweight serial killer?

Destro  posted on  2006-10-27   14:28:56 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

The German Nazis used the genocide and 'ethnic cleansing' of Native Americans as one of the models to plan and execute their genocide and ethnic cleansing of those they found odious.

I would keep the museum and make the Shoah exhibit a wing. It needs exhibits showing what happened to 'New World' peoples, and to peoples in all the other corners of the world when their particular 'holocausts' happened.

The lesson that the museum teaches is an important one, it just need to be reorganized and changed to show that this is a sort of thing that has happened in different degrees at different times in human history.

To make it just cover the Shoah, it sends the false message that what the Nazis did was highly unusual, when in fact, it isn't. The museum is needed because this sort of thing will happen again if we don't use all the tools at our disposal to remember history to keep from repeating it.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2006-10-27   14:39:36 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

The lesson that the museum teaches is an important one

Only if one ignores the purposeful distortion of history to benefit Jewish power in America and the world.

bluegrass  posted on  2006-10-27   14:46:54 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

"Only if one ignores the purposeful distortion of history to benefit Jewish power in America and the world."

I see all people of all races, creeds, and ethnic groups as capable of doing genocide and ethnic cleansing by virtue that so many of all varieties have.

And I see nothing wrong with a museum that teaches about that in order to help prevent that from happening again.

I don't want to see anyone doing this for any reason. No human has a right to judge themselves better and more fitting to own, run or control things then another.

So I support a museum like this one. To make it just cover one episode of the problem only helps compound the problems being addressed though.

I just do not see the Jewish people as the monsters or monolith of a source of all human greed and intrigue. They are merely a player that has their saints and scoundrels like anyone else.

I see using a group to form wedge issues as a component of the problem the museum should be addressing in more expansive a form.

Thus I refuse to make people targets based on their race, creed or ethnic background at all.

That horrifies me and my mind absolutely rejects doing that. If someone is exploiting someone through economic games, they should be investigated prosecuted and punished for this. But making their faith or ethnic background a paramount aspect of doing so is flat wrong.

Whatever a Jewish banker can do, Goyem bankers can do after the Jewish ones are gone.

I see a niche that exists that will be filled regardless of who does the filling as nature abhors a vacuum.

The important thing is to get rid of the niche, not pick on the occupants and all others like her or him of the same variety.

You are free to not agree, but that is how I see the situation and should be addressed to some extent.

Example of how the problem is more complex: Mormons, (who also call non believers Goyem) are very fast building a huge financial empire as a component to what is perceived as an attempt for religious, political and economic hegemony. Many want them slapped down systemically, with all Mormons paying for the sins of the leadership.

I am also against this, and just want the scammers and power and capital hungry criminals among them investigated, prosecuted and punished too.

Get rid of all Jewish people, a faith like the Mormon one will move in and flesh out where they were in every aspect and endeavor any Jews now are engaged in.

I feel you look at the problem in too one dimensional and narrow a manner, you likely feel the same about how I look at this.

That's politics for you.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2006-10-27   15:10:02 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

So I support a museum like this one.

Do you also support the purposeful and pointed lies about history that are enshrined in the temple?

bluegrass  posted on  2006-10-27   15:13:23 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

"Do you also support the purposeful and pointed lies about history that are enshrined in the temple?"

What temple are you talking about?

Ferret Mike  posted on  2006-10-27   19:01:47 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I'll play your game if you wish.

Do you also support the purposeful and pointed lies about history that are enshrined in the Holocaust Museum in DC?

bluegrass  posted on  2006-10-27   19:03:25 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

"I'll play your game if you wish.

Do you also support the purposeful and pointed lies about history that are enshrined in the Holocaust Museum in DC?"

Dude, I just walked in the door a minute ago and yours' was the first post I read and you are talking about a temple, something Jewish people call their buildings, why don't you at ease the suspicion and sarcasm.

It is a trait you have that does not serve you well. I figured out what you meant as I read down, but I resist the impulse to change posts after I make them as someone might be answering them already.

I have not been to the museum yet so I can't talk specifics. If you are again asking whether I believe the Nazis systematically murdered innocent men women and children, yes they did.

I also see no point to Holocaust denial either. I am absolutely against the death penalty, and the death penalty for a whole people is the most repugnant thing one group can impose on another.

You speak of dishonesty in the demographics, I see holocaust deniers playing games like taking photographs done to demonstrate how parachute harnesses were used in high altitude human guinea pig experiments and claiming these photos taken by the prosecution at Nuremberg were proof that these experiments were lies because American harnesses were in these demonstration pictures, not German ones. Debunkers of the Shoah claim they are German photos, they actually were taken by Allied photographers preparing material to explain and demonstrate what these doctors were doing when they experimented on people.

American harnesses are very unique, I know as a former paratrooper.

You condemn the Shoah based on what you claim is a vested interest in fabrication and exaggeration. That coin has two sides. Those denying that the Shoah is history have axes of their own to grind and a vested interest in exaggerating in the other direction.

I see no real point in changing the record of history unless it is done by a third party that starts with no conclusion and examines the record and evidence remaining and ultimately reach the conclusion the Shoah was a hoax.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2006-10-27   19:30:26 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

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