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Religion
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Title: College removes cross – from chapel!
Source: WND
URL Source: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52646
Published: Oct 27, 2006
Author: Staff
Post Date: 2006-10-27 12:39:53 by bluegrass
Ping List: *New History*
Keywords: None
Views: 4284
Comments: 252

The cross from the altar area of the chapel at the College of William & Mary in Williamsburg, Va., has been removed to ensure the space is seen as a nondenominational area, explains Melissa Engimann, assistant director for Historic Campus.

"In order to make the Wren Chapel less of a faith-specific space, and to make it more welcoming to students, faculty, staff and visitors of all faiths, the cross has been removed from the altar area," Engimann announced in an e-mail to staff.

The cross will be returned to the altar for those who wish to use it for events, services or private prayer.

The cross was in place because of the college's former association with the Anglican Church. Though the college is now nondenominational and became publicly supported in 1906, the room will still be considered a chapel, college officials said.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 73.

#1. To: bluegrass (#0)

This is kind of a private matter - it's not like this came from a court order, etc.

So it really is non of our business.

Destro  posted on  2006-10-27   12:50:33 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

The chapel is part of the Wren Building, the oldest academic building in America. It's had a cross in it since the chapel was added in 1732.

This is akin to what the Bolsheviks did to Russian religious history during their tyranny.

bluegrass  posted on  2006-10-27   13:05:31 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

The chapel is part of the Wren Building, the oldest academic building in America. It's had a cross in it since the chapel was added in 1732.

It's a private matter - none of my business or yours.

Destro  posted on  2006-10-27   14:16:00 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

It's a private matter - none of my business or yours.

I live in Virginia. W&M is a "public" school.

It's my biz.

bluegrass  posted on  2006-10-27   14:20:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I live in Virginia. W&M is a "public" school.

Then the cross should be removed since the state should not fund a religous specific chapel.

Destro  posted on  2006-10-27   14:22:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

By that reasoning, the publicly funded 'Holocaust' Museum in DC should have all of the six-pointed stars removed.

The larger issue is that the State has no business supporting universities.

bluegrass  posted on  2006-10-27   14:25:25 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

By that reasoning, the publicly funded 'Holocaust' Museum in DC should have all of the six-pointed stars removed.

A) I am against the existence of the Holocaust musuem in America - if it should exist anywhere it should be in Berlin/Europe.

With that said:

B) The Star of David was used as a identifying symbol by the Nazis so you could not have it removed from a museum that touches on the subject.

C) Was not the schismatic and heretical Anglican church founded by an overweight serial killer?

Destro  posted on  2006-10-27   14:28:56 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

The German Nazis used the genocide and 'ethnic cleansing' of Native Americans as one of the models to plan and execute their genocide and ethnic cleansing of those they found odious.

I would keep the museum and make the Shoah exhibit a wing. It needs exhibits showing what happened to 'New World' peoples, and to peoples in all the other corners of the world when their particular 'holocausts' happened.

The lesson that the museum teaches is an important one, it just need to be reorganized and changed to show that this is a sort of thing that has happened in different degrees at different times in human history.

To make it just cover the Shoah, it sends the false message that what the Nazis did was highly unusual, when in fact, it isn't. The museum is needed because this sort of thing will happen again if we don't use all the tools at our disposal to remember history to keep from repeating it.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2006-10-27   14:39:36 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

The German Nazis used the genocide and 'ethnic cleansing' of Native Americans as one of the models to plan and execute their genocide and ethnic cleansing of those they found odious.

I would keep the museum and make the Shoah exhibit a wing. It needs exhibits showing what happened to 'New World' peoples, and to peoples in all the other corners of the world when their particular 'holocausts' happened.

The lesson that the museum teaches is an important one, it just need to be reorganized and changed to show that this is a sort of thing that has happened in different degrees at different times in human history.

To make it just cover the Shoah, it sends the false message that what the Nazis did was highly unusual, when in fact, it isn't. The museum is needed because this sort of thing will happen again if we don't use all the tools at our disposal to remember history to keep from repeating it.

Hell Mike it's going to happen again no matter how many museums are put up; you can't change human nature and human beings are warlike creatures. In fact it is happening in the Middle East, and other parts of the world that we don't hear much about.

If there is one thing I have learned these past few years, it's that people in general can and do behave like monsters.

I think your claim about the nazis using the extermination of American Indians as a model is an urban legend of sorts, as the vast majority of Indians died from diseases they had no immunity against, and there was no concrete policy carried out to exterminate Native Americans, it happened over a long period of time, an incident here, incident there, and was not an organized effort.

As long as there are people, there will be selfishness, cruelty and cowardly behavior. As this country descends further into dictatorship, look for many cowards to come crawling out of the woodwork (for instance those who rat on others in order to score brownie points with those they perceive as being the powerful ones).

Diana  posted on  2006-10-27   17:37:34 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

"I think your claim about the Nazis using the extermination of American Indians as a model is an urban legend of sorts, as the vast majority of Indians died from diseases they had no immunity against, and there was no concrete policy carried out to exterminate Native Americans, it happened over a long period of time, an incident here, incident there, and was not an organized effort."

There was a policy to destroy Native American culture and any indigenous people who resisted at best. This policy's cornerstone is 'the Doctrine of Discovery' that denied sovereignty or recognition of non-Christian people.

To understand the connection between Christendom's principle of discovery and the laws of the United States, we need to begin by examining a papal document issued forty years before Columbus' historic voyage In 1452, Pope Nicholas V issued to King Alfonso V of Portugal the bull Romanus Pontifex, declaring war against all non-Christians throughout the world, and specifically sanctioning and promoting the conquest, colonization, and exploitation of non- Christian nations and their territories.

Under various theological and legal doctrines formulated during and after the Crusades, non-Christians were considered enemies of the Catholic faith and, as such, less than human. Accordingly, in the bull of 1452, Pope Nicholas directed King Alfonso to "capture, vanquish, and subdue the saracens, pagans, and other enemies of Christ," to "put them into perpetual slavery," and "to take all their possessions and property." [Davenport: 20-26] Acting on this papal privilege, Portugal continued to traffic in African slaves, and expanded its royal dominions by making "discoveries" along the western coast of Africa, claiming those lands as Portuguese territory.

Thus, when Columbus sailed west across the Sea of Darkness in 1492 - with the express understanding that he was authorized to "take possession" of any lands he "discovered" that were "not under the dominion of any Christian rulers" - he and the Spanish sovereigns of Aragon and Castile were following an already well- established tradition of "discovery" and conquest. [Thacher:96] Indeed, after Columbus returned to Europe, Pope Alexander VI issued a papal document, the bull Inter Cetera of May 3, 1493, "granting" to Spain - at the request of Ferdinand and Isabella - the right to conquer the lands which Columbus had already found, as well as any lands which Spain might "discover" in the future.

In the Inter Cetera document, Pope Alexander stated his desire that the "discovered" people be "subjugated and brought to the faith itself." [Davenport:61] By this means, said the pope, the "Christian Empire" would be propagated. [Thacher:127] When Portugal protested this concession to Spain, Pope Alexander stipulated in a subsequent bull - issued May 4, 1493 - that Spain must not attempt to establish its dominion over lands which had already "come into the possession of any Christian lords." [Davenport:68] Then, to placate the two rival monarchs, the pope drew a line of demarcation between the two poles, giving Spain rights of conquest and dominion over one side of the globe, and Portugal over the other.

http://ili.nativeweb.org/sdrm_art. html

Ferret Mike  posted on  2006-10-27   19:09:58 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Thus, when Columbus sailed west across the Sea of Darkness in 1492 - with the express understanding that he was authorized to "take possession" of any lands he "discovered" that were "not under the dominion of any Christian rulers" - he and the Spanish sovereigns of Aragon and Castile were following an already well- established tradition of "discovery" and conquest. [Thacher:96] Indeed, after Columbus returned to Europe, Pope Alexander VI issued a papal document, the bull Inter Cetera of May 3, 1493, "granting" to Spain - at the request of Ferdinand and Isabella - the right to conquer the lands which Columbus had already found, as well as any lands which Spain might "discover" in the future.

There is loads and loads of documentation such as this about all the horrific things Europeans have done. Does this imply that Europeans are the cruelest and most violent of all people? Or could it be that there is more material written, especially in recent decades, about the viciousness and cruelty which one would now think is inherent only in white people?

I still maintain that what happened to the peoples in the Americas happened over a period of time, in various locations, under various rulers and policies. It was not as concentrated an effort as Nazi policy against Jews. It was a take-over of this land, and the people already here for the most part were displaced by disease and murder. So how does that reconcile with the OT where God tells the Jewish people to kill all Caananites when they arrived in the promised land? Any thoughts on that?

So since there is so much literature to be found, does this mean white people are responsible for 90% of the misery in this world? Or could it mean that there is an effort to collect as much documentation as possible to put in peoples' minds that white people are demons in disguise?

There has been an on-going war in Sudan with Arabs against the Blacks in the south of that country, but we haven't heard a whole lot about that until recently when it became fashionable to demonize Arabs. And remember, much of what you read anymore has an agenda, and the "facts" don't always add up.

Oh, and while Russia owned Alaska, they didn't treat the Eskimos badly, in fact part of their treaty for selling Alaska to the US was to state that the Eskimos were to be left alone. The US did not do this though, they sent them to boarding schools and made them speak English, but they haven't meddled that way in a long time. Now they have special rights such as free medical care, land, and that conference is put on for them once a year in an attempt to urge them to hate white people. However that won't work because as I said they are very gentle people and there are many diluted Eskimos from all the intermarriages in these rural areas. It's difficult to hate the white part of one's own child for instance.

Diana  posted on  2006-10-27   19:34:08 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

"There is loads and loads of documentation such as this about all the horrific things Europeans have done. Does this imply that Europeans are the cruelest and most violent of all people?"

No my dear, just people, with the same amount of good and bad inherent to them as any people. Sometimes a culture exaggerates and intensifies the worst in a people, but no one demographic group is better or worse as human beings than any other.

Ferret Mike  posted on  2006-10-27   19:37:37 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

#83. To: Ferret Mike, Swarthy Guy (#73)

No my dear, just people, with the same amount of good and bad inherent to them as any people. Sometimes a culture exaggerates and intensifies the worst in a people, but no one demographic group is better or worse as human beings than any other.

I'm glad you realize this, though it's hard for people to see it with all the anti-white material all over the place. I suppose all races/ethnic groups have their turn at this. The older I get the more disillusioned I get with human nature, though I suppose it's good to see the truth even if it is ugly.

Diana  posted on  2006-10-27 19:59:56 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

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