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Title: College removes cross – from chapel!
Source:
WND
URL Source: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52646
Published: Oct 27, 2006
Author: Staff
Post Date: 2006-10-27 12:39:53 by bluegrass
Ping List: *New History*
Keywords: None
Views: 4445
Comments: 252
The cross from the altar area of the chapel at the College of William & Mary in Williamsburg, Va., has been removed to ensure the space is seen as a nondenominational area, explains Melissa Engimann, assistant director for Historic Campus. "In order to make the Wren Chapel less of a faith-specific space, and to make it more welcoming to students, faculty, staff and visitors of all faiths, the cross has been removed from the altar area," Engimann announced in an e-mail to staff. The cross will be returned to the altar for those who wish to use it for events, services or private prayer. The cross was in place because of the college's former association with the Anglican Church. Though the college is now nondenominational and became publicly supported in 1906, the room will still be considered a chapel, college officials said.
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#66. To: Diana (#52)
There was a policy to destroy Native American culture and any indigenous people who resisted at best. This policy's cornerstone is 'the Doctrine of Discovery' that denied sovereignty or recognition of non-Christian people. Under various theological and legal doctrines formulated during and after the Crusades, non-Christians were considered enemies of the Catholic faith and, as such, less than human. Accordingly, in the bull of 1452, Pope Nicholas directed King Alfonso to "capture, vanquish, and subdue the saracens, pagans, and other enemies of Christ," to "put them into perpetual slavery," and "to take all their possessions and property." [Davenport: 20-26] Acting on this papal privilege, Portugal continued to traffic in African slaves, and expanded its royal dominions by making "discoveries" along the western coast of Africa, claiming those lands as Portuguese territory. Thus, when Columbus sailed west across the Sea of Darkness in 1492 - with the express understanding that he was authorized to "take possession" of any lands he "discovered" that were "not under the dominion of any Christian rulers" - he and the Spanish sovereigns of Aragon and Castile were following an already well- established tradition of "discovery" and conquest. [Thacher:96] Indeed, after Columbus returned to Europe, Pope Alexander VI issued a papal document, the bull Inter Cetera of May 3, 1493, "granting" to Spain - at the request of Ferdinand and Isabella - the right to conquer the lands which Columbus had already found, as well as any lands which Spain might "discover" in the future. In the Inter Cetera document, Pope Alexander stated his desire that the "discovered" people be "subjugated and brought to the faith itself." [Davenport:61] By this means, said the pope, the "Christian Empire" would be propagated. [Thacher:127] When Portugal protested this concession to Spain, Pope Alexander stipulated in a subsequent bull - issued May 4, 1493 - that Spain must not attempt to establish its dominion over lands which had already "come into the possession of any Christian lords." [Davenport:68] Then, to placate the two rival monarchs, the pope drew a line of demarcation between the two poles, giving Spain rights of conquest and dominion over one side of the globe, and Portugal over the other. I wonder what part of the Old Testament the Catholics got that from?
"...it is unlawful in the ordinary course of things or in a private house to murder a child; it should not be permitted any sect then to sacrifice children." -Thomas Jefferson
No, before Christie was elevated to the job of EPA head she was the governor of NJ, and she ordered that all PS students would view the film to make sure they "never forget" and to make sure that it "never happens again." The message? "But for timely intervention every kid is a potential Nazi!"
Those naughty, naughty catholics....
When the going gets weird the weird turn pro. - Hunter S Thompson
Do you also support the purposeful and pointed lies about history that are enshrined in the Holocaust Museum in DC?" Dude, I just walked in the door a minute ago and yours' was the first post I read and you are talking about a temple, something Jewish people call their buildings, why don't you at ease the suspicion and sarcasm. It is a trait you have that does not serve you well. I figured out what you meant as I read down, but I resist the impulse to change posts after I make them as someone might be answering them already. I have not been to the museum yet so I can't talk specifics. If you are again asking whether I believe the Nazis systematically murdered innocent men women and children, yes they did. I also see no point to Holocaust denial either. I am absolutely against the death penalty, and the death penalty for a whole people is the most repugnant thing one group can impose on another. You speak of dishonesty in the demographics, I see holocaust deniers playing games like taking photographs done to demonstrate how parachute harnesses were used in high altitude human guinea pig experiments and claiming these photos taken by the prosecution at Nuremberg were proof that these experiments were lies because American harnesses were in these demonstration pictures, not German ones. Debunkers of the Shoah claim they are German photos, they actually were taken by Allied photographers preparing material to explain and demonstrate what these doctors were doing when they experimented on people. American harnesses are very unique, I know as a former paratrooper. You condemn the Shoah based on what you claim is a vested interest in fabrication and exaggeration. That coin has two sides. Those denying that the Shoah is history have axes of their own to grind and a vested interest in exaggerating in the other direction. I see no real point in changing the record of history unless it is done by a third party that starts with no conclusion and examines the record and evidence remaining and ultimately reach the conclusion the Shoah was a hoax.
Good question. As someone profoundly glad I am not Catholic who was inflicted with that faith growing up -- I have not much sympathy nor love for that organization. I don't have much love for organized religion anyway, but as far as the Catholic Church goes, familiarity breed contempt, I know it so well wild horses couldn't drag me to another Mass.
There is loads and loads of documentation such as this about all the horrific things Europeans have done. Does this imply that Europeans are the cruelest and most violent of all people? Or could it be that there is more material written, especially in recent decades, about the viciousness and cruelty which one would now think is inherent only in white people? I still maintain that what happened to the peoples in the Americas happened over a period of time, in various locations, under various rulers and policies. It was not as concentrated an effort as Nazi policy against Jews. It was a take-over of this land, and the people already here for the most part were displaced by disease and murder. So how does that reconcile with the OT where God tells the Jewish people to kill all Caananites when they arrived in the promised land? Any thoughts on that? So since there is so much literature to be found, does this mean white people are responsible for 90% of the misery in this world? Or could it mean that there is an effort to collect as much documentation as possible to put in peoples' minds that white people are demons in disguise? There has been an on-going war in Sudan with Arabs against the Blacks in the south of that country, but we haven't heard a whole lot about that until recently when it became fashionable to demonize Arabs. And remember, much of what you read anymore has an agenda, and the "facts" don't always add up. Oh, and while Russia owned Alaska, they didn't treat the Eskimos badly, in fact part of their treaty for selling Alaska to the US was to state that the Eskimos were to be left alone. The US did not do this though, they sent them to boarding schools and made them speak English, but they haven't meddled that way in a long time. Now they have special rights such as free medical care, land, and that conference is put on for them once a year in an attempt to urge them to hate white people. However that won't work because as I said they are very gentle people and there are many diluted Eskimos from all the intermarriages in these rural areas. It's difficult to hate the white part of one's own child for instance.
No my dear, just people, with the same amount of good and bad inherent to them as any people. Sometimes a culture exaggerates and intensifies the worst in a people, but no one demographic group is better or worse as human beings than any other.
Some of the Indian tribes were composed of horrendous savages. They slaughtered without regard to age or sex -- tortured people to death, bashed babies' brains out against rocks. This is what they did to other tribes. The Pawnee, for example, allied themselves with the white man to save themselves from the more savage tribes. Some of the tribes deserved to be exterminated.
"We become what we behold. We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." -- Marshall McLuhan, after Alexander Pope and William Blake.
There was always a plan to drive off native americans, or at least subjugate them. Heck, Diana, many of the Cherokee were landholders, gentleman planters even until gold was discovered in them thar hills of Georgia. Early Victorian Era at best. !
When the going gets weird the weird turn pro. - Hunter S Thompson
Remind me never to entrust my followers to the likes of you.
When the going gets weird the weird turn pro. - Hunter S Thompson
Again, I KNOW what happened to the native peoples in the Americas. My point is that it did not happen all at once and there were many different peoples involved and many incidents, I fail to understand why this concept is unable to penetrate some thick skulls. I guess people have forgotten what happened in Cambodia too during the 70s, but that extermination doesn't count since white people were not involved.
That's the same vibe I get from reading comments at Jerusalem Post, Y-Net, and Paranoids Illustrated.
When the going gets weird the weird turn pro. - Hunter S Thompson
Oh. come on. You know that some of those tribes were nothing but murderers who killed children, babies, women -- everyone. What about the Aztecs? The tribes they used for human sacrifice allied themselves with the Spanish invaders because they got tired of having tens of thousands of their people getting their hearts ripped out.
"We become what we behold. We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." -- Marshall McLuhan, after Alexander Pope and William Blake.
Look guys, there are indeed some evil white people, white people who have tortured and killed (or would like to) and have no conscience. However it's not a white people trait, it's a human being trait. We're just hearing more about the bad white people deeds lately (with much exaggeration mixed in with in with truth) because there is an underground war of sorts being waged against them these days. It's similar to the mounds and mounds of the bad propaganda being put out against Arabs and Islam.
What the hell does right or wrong have to do with it, I just want more followers.
When the going gets weird the weird turn pro. - Hunter S Thompson
It's globalism. Resistance is futile, all your slackers are be anihilated.
When the going gets weird the weird turn pro. - Hunter S Thompson
I'm glad you realize this, though it's hard for people to see it with all the anti-white material all over the place. I suppose all races/ethnic groups have their turn at this. The older I get the more disillusioned I get with human nature, though I suppose it's good to see the truth even if it is ugly.
now that is funny.
And on the subject of political party hypocrisy...the Democrats may do lots of chest beating about how terrible it was that the GOP leadership turned a blind eye to a gay pubie pederast placed in a position of authority (page board) that put him in regular contact with young Capitol Hill interns...HOWEVER, in the same breath, those same "protect the children" Democrat politicians promote gay marriage and adoption as a party platform, which would amount to doing the same thing as the aforementioned GOP crime of blind neglect but causing a risky situation in significantly larger proportions. Pot kettle and all that irony good stuff…
oh, i know. think ted kennedy. there are plenty of his ilk in the dem leadership. in general though, the dems don't say that theirs is the party of family values.
In short, it's almost immaterial now, but the sentiment to exterminate is very well documented among the writings of that time. Well then, you've fingered some unsavory characters. I just didn't see the order to send the sick blankets out to the natives. There's no question that they probably would if the opportunity to execute it criminally and with stealth presented. There were some people in positions of power who dealt with natives, and they had no sense of entitlement toward the gritty savages. Probably because they had a history of going ape and getting bloody, and the notion of the white man's burden to educate and shoe them had not yet matured as fashion. But, I didn't see any general order there or anywhere up the line to authorize the wholesale reduction in native numbers through microbe contamination.
National Minority Health Month Foundation Sponsors Free HIV Testing at California NAACP Convention - priceless, I suppose next I'll have to get rabies shots and heartworm dope if I want to unfreeze my bank account...
When the going gets weird the weird turn pro. - Hunter S Thompson
With all due respect, christine, I think you are confusing the reprehensible actions and human flaws of individual bad apples ( who are present in both parties) with the focused and concerted legislation that 1 party, specifically the Democrat Party, promotes as an important aspect of its party platform, gay marriage and adoption, both of which are the antithesis of family values and which would create a potentially risky environment for children and youth in more ways than one. It is one thing to say GOP individuals did not demonstrate good family values in their behavior, but the GOP supports the traditional family unit as being the best for raising children, while the opposite is true of the Democrat Party whose left wing liberal orientation causes it to support legislation aimed at dismantling one of the cornerstones of our society - the traditional family unit.
The problem is the two (niches and occupants) are not wholly independent things. There are no solutions, only trade-offs.
Nobody's all bad. Not even Nazis.
She's got a point there about the crazy water. Races with lower rates of alcoholism have had much longer exposure to alcohol. The drunkard is a gentile because the gentile is a drunkard. :/
Absolutely. The decimating diseases were a godsend, from the point of view of the white colonists. All the great European empires followed the same patterns, and the British furnish as good an example as any of racial incoherence and even naïveté. A surprising example of the latter was the establishment of the first permanent settlement in Jamestown in 1607 (see AR, Jan. 2004). By then, the Spanish had been in the New World for over a century, and had a reputation for massacre. The English were determined to do better, bringing civilization and Christianity to what they expected would be grateful natives. As one backer of the Virginia Company wrote of the Indians he had never seen: “Their children when they come to be saved, will blesse the day when first their fathers saw your faces.” The colonists did not consider themselves superior to the “naturals,” no matter how primitive. They reasoned that the ancient Britons had been savages, civilized by the Romans, and that this process would be repeated. Although the colonists considered themselves racially different from Africans and “Moors,” they thought the Indians were born white and turned dark from exposure to the sun and to skin dyes. The president of the colony, Edward-Maria Wingfield, was so determined to set a loving example that he forbade construction of fortifications and training in the use of weapons. The colony was only ten days old when hundreds of Indians attacked it. If the English had not panicked them with canon fire, the Indians would probably have massacred them all. It was only after this edifying encounter that the colonists built their famous three-sided stockade. The Indian reaction to colonization was the mirror-image of what became the rule in European attitudes towards natives: The tribes that lived closest to Jamestown hated the English and tried to kill them. The more distant ones were friendly and willing to trade. Despite frequent attacks, the English did not give up hope that benevolence would win over the Indians. After the first conversions to Christianity, they set aside 10,000 acres for a college where Indians would be instructed in the faith. One English leader, George Thorpe, was especially insistent on kindness to Indians, and even publicly hanged dogs whose barking had frightened them. As the years went by, Indians and colonists began to mingle, with hired Indians working together with the English in shops and in the field. The appearance of friendliness was false. In 1622, Indians carried out a carefully-hatched extermination plan, turning on the colonists with whom they worked, killing as many as they could. In some areas, they lost the element of surprise and therefore killed only 400 of Jamestown’s 1,200 whites. For Thorpe, the special friend of the Indians, they reserved a particularly cruel death and elaborate mutilation. The remaining colonists launched a war of revenge, but after a year or so relations returned to an appearance of friendliness. Amazingly, in 1644, Indians carried out an identical sneak attack, and managed to kill 400 to 500 people. This time, the English retaliated mercilessly, and in 1646, the Virginia General Assembly noted that the natives were “so routed and dispersed that they are no longer a nation, and we now suffer only from robbery by a few starved outlaws.” What is remarkable about Jamestown is the behavior of the English, not that of the Indians. The English approached the Indians with as much good will as it was probably possible for colonizers to approach the colonized. It was the Indians who recognized that colonization meant dispossession, and they resisted in every way they could. Eventually, of course, the English lost their illusions. By 1690, Governor John Archdale of the Carolinas was praising God for the diseases that killed so many natives: “The Hand of God has been eminently seen in thinning the Indians to make room for the English.” Still, it is sobering to note that even 400 years ago, whites were capable of dangerous illusions in their dealings with non-whites, though they did come to their senses before it was too late. Races with lower rates of alcoholism have had much longer exposure to alcohol. I was thinking about that the other day, how peoples who have been exposed to alcohol for eons don't have problems with it. Interestingly the Aztecs had alcohol, pulque I think it was called, made from fermented cactus. And Mexican natives tend to have less problems with alcohol than others who never had it in their culture until the white man brought it in.
The govt will want to dip you for ticks and other parasites, of course.
It didn't happen all at once because of the scale of the country and the lack of modern industrial methods. Who's forgotten Cambodia? Cambodians haven't, it's the US that ignored the brutality of the Khmer Rouge after creating the chaotic conditions that allowed them to flourish.
Evidence. LOL. What a copout.
You see antiwhite, I see an accurate rendition of facts. Some whites seem to have a persecution complex making them whiney/ As far as Arabs and Muslims, look at their blood stained wars all around the globe and then talk to me about propaganda.
Even more reason to remove the cross since this "space is seen as a nondenominational area".
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
What does Israel have to do with this college removing a cross from a non denominational chapel?
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Pagans as well as Christians carried out policies that we would label genocide today. What the then arriving pagan Anglo-Saxon Jutes did to the native Welsh who were Celtic Christian at that time could be labeled as genocide.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
"Well....the other kids do it to" doesn't work on parents who have a brain, and you are going to have to do much much better then this to impress me. Thanks for the eye roller.
I was commenting on Bluegrass' repeated assertions that genocide was a Jewish invention. Work on reading comprehension.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
I know what you said, and you got my honest gut reation. Don't like it? Tough. Insults don't impress me either.
Their deeds nullify any good they feel or do.
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest"I think your claim about the Nazis using the extermination of American Indians as a model is an urban legend of sorts, as the vast majority of Indians died from diseases they had no immunity against, and there was no concrete policy carried out to exterminate Native Americans, it happened over a long period of time, an incident here, incident there, and was not an organized effort."
To understand the connection between Christendom's principle of discovery and the laws of the United States, we need to begin by examining a papal document issued forty years before Columbus' historic voyage In 1452, Pope Nicholas V issued to King Alfonso V of Portugal the bull Romanus Pontifex, declaring war against all non-Christians throughout the world, and specifically sanctioning and promoting the conquest, colonization, and exploitation of non- Christian nations and their territories.
#67. To: Ferret Mike (#66)
non-Christians were considered enemies of the Catholic faith and, as such, less than human.
#68. To: Diana (#60)
Please tell me you are kidding!
#69. To: Ferret Mike (#66)
#70. To: bluegrass (#65)
(Edited)
"I'll play your game if you wish.
#71. To: bluegrass (#67)
"I wonder what part of the Old Testament the Catholics got that from?"
#72. To: Ferret Mike, scrapper2, bluegrass (#66)
Thus, when Columbus sailed west across the Sea of Darkness in 1492 - with the express understanding that he was authorized to "take possession" of any lands he "discovered" that were "not under the dominion of any Christian rulers" - he and the Spanish sovereigns of Aragon and Castile were following an already well- established tradition of "discovery" and conquest. [Thacher:96] Indeed, after Columbus returned to Europe, Pope Alexander VI issued a papal document, the bull Inter Cetera of May 3, 1493, "granting" to Spain - at the request of Ferdinand and Isabella - the right to conquer the lands which Columbus had already found, as well as any lands which Spain might "discover" in the future.
#73. To: Diana (#72)
(Edited)
"There is loads and loads of documentation such as this about all the horrific things Europeans have done. Does this imply that Europeans are the cruelest and most violent of all people?"
#74. To: Diana (#72)
#75. To: Diana, Ferret Mike (#66)
there was no concrete policy carried out to exterminate Native Americans, it happened over a long period of time,
#76. To: YertleTurtle (#74)
Some of the tribes deserved to be exterminated.
#77. To: Ferret Mike, Swarthy Guy (#66)
There was a policy to destroy Native American culture and any indigenous people who resisted at best.
#78. To: HOUNDDAWG (#68)
"But for timely intervention every kid is a potential Nazi!"
#79. To: Dakmar (#76)
Some of the tribes deserved to be exterminated. Remind me never to entrust my followers to the likes of you.
#80. To: Ferret Mike, Swarthy Guy (#66)
#81. To: YertleTurtle (#79)
#82. To: Diana (#80)
However it's not a white people trait, it's a human being trait. We're just hearing more about the bad white people deeds lately (with much exaggeration mixed in with in with truth) because there is an underground war of sorts being waged against them these days. It's similar to the mounds and mounds of the bad propaganda being put out against Arabs and Islam.
#83. To: Ferret Mike, Swarthy Guy (#73)
No my dear, just people, with the same amount of good and bad inherent to them as any people. Sometimes a culture exaggerates and intensifies the worst in a people, but no one demographic group is better or worse as human beings than any other.
#84. To: Dakmar, Diana (#82)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lQbOr_mJpE
#85. To: bluedogtxn (#2)
He might bugger an altarboy in the chapel, but he'd never let them take the cross away!
#86. To: bluedogtxn, christine (#2)
Why, a Republican would never let that happen. He might bugger an altarboy in the chapel, but he'd never let them take the cross away!
#87. To: scrapper2 (#86)
#88. To: swarthyguy (#58)
"...that Vermine ... have forfeited all claim to the rights of humanity" (Bouquet to Amherst, 25 June) [149k] "I would rather chuse the liberty to kill any Savage...." (Bouquet to Amherst, 25 June) [121k] "...Measures to be taken as would Bring about the Total Extirpation of those Indian Nations" (Amherst to Sir William Johnson, Superintendent of the Northern Indian Department, 9 July) [229k] "...their Total Extirpation is scarce sufficient Attonement...." (Amherst to George Croghan, Deputy Agent for Indian Affairs, 7 August) [145k] "...put a most Effectual Stop to their very Being" (Amherst to Johnson, 27 August [292k]; emphasis in original).
#89. To: HOUNDDAWG (#88)
#90. To: christine (#87)
oh, i know. think ted kennedy. there are plenty of his ilk in the dem leadership. in general though, the dems don't say that theirs is the party of family values.
#91. To: Ferret Mike (#22)
The important thing is to get rid of the niche, not pick on the occupants and all others like her or him of the same variety.
Buy Flantasy Flan™
#92. To: Destro (#28)
The Nazi legal system was based on the American Jim Crow laws.
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#93. To: Diana (#55)
"before the white man came, we had no alcohol to destroy our families.
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#94. To: swarthyguy (#58)
In short, it's almost immaterial now, but the sentiment to exterminate is very well documented among the writings of that time.
The British
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#95. To: Tauzero (#93)
She's got a point there about the crazy water.
#96. To: Dakmar (#89)
National Minority Health Month Foundation Sponsors Free HIV Testing at California NAACP Convention - priceless, I suppose next I'll have to get rabies shots and heartworm dope if I want to unfreeze my bank account..
#97. To: Diana (#77)
#98. To: HOUNDDAWG (#88)
I just didn't see the order to send the sick blankets out to the natives
#99. To: Diana (#80)
#100. To: scrapper2 (#48)
This is a taxpayer supported college. W&M is not private; it used to be private but not any longer. It is "our" property.
#101. To: Diana (#59)
Does Israel mind it's own business? NOOOOOOOO!
#102. To: Ferret Mike, bluegrass (#71)
#103. To: Destro (#102)
"Pagans as well as Christians carried out policies that we would label genocide today. What the then arriving pagan Anglo-Saxon Jutes did to the native Welsh who were Celtic Christian at that time could be labeled as genocide."
#104. To: Ferret Mike, Bluegrass (#103)
"Well....the other kids do it to" doesn't work on parents who have a brain, and you are going to have to do much much better then this to impress me.
#105. To: Destro (#104)
"Work on reading comprehension."
#106. To: Tauzero (#92)
(Edited)
"Nobody's all bad. Not even Nazis."
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