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Title: Haggard: 'I am a deceiver and a liar' [Haggard Cons Goobers Into Forgiving Him in Less Than 24 Hours]
Source:
LA Times
URL Source: http://www.latimes.com/la-na-haggard6nov06,0,1687759,print.story
Published: Nov 6, 2006
Author: Stephanie Simon
Post Date: 2006-11-06 00:54:41 by Morgana le Fay
Keywords: None
Views: 1004
Comments: 82
COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. -- In the hush of a Sunday morning, 9,000 believers grieved, struggled and forgave as their pastor, the Rev. Ted Haggard, confessed his sins. "I am a deceiver and a liar," Haggard told his followers in a letter read from the pulpit of New Life Church by one of his spiritual mentors. "There's a part of my life that is so repulsive and dark that I have been warring against it for all of my adult life." Men rubbed at their eyes. Women clung to one another. A grandfather hugged his baby grandson. Haggard had founded this church in his basement. He had grown it to a congregation of 14,000. He had guided them to God and helped them triumph over sin, and he had done it always with a smile, ever exuberant, ever strong. They wept to hear what he'd been hiding. "For extended periods of time, I would enjoy victory and rejoice in freedom," Haggard wrote. "Then, from time to time, the dirt that I thought was gone would resurface, and I would find myself thinking thoughts and experiencing desires that were contrary to everything I believe and teach." A male prostitute in Denver came forward last week claiming that Haggard had visited his apartment almost monthly over the past three years for sex and drugs. Haggard at first denied it. Then he said he bought meth from the man, but threw it away. On Sunday, he said this: "The accusations that have been leveled against me are not all true, but enough of them are true that I have been appropriately and lovingly removed from ministry." Having resigned the presidency of the National Association of Evangelicals and been dismissed as senior pastor of New Life, Haggard said he and his wife, Gayle, "need to be gone for a while." He pledged to put himself under the guidance of several pastors who will help him work toward restoration. "Please forgive me," he wrote. "I am so embarrassed and ashamed.... I am a sinner. I have fallen." Then the Rev. Larry Stockstill, a Louisiana pastor, read aloud a short letter from Gayle Haggard. She said her heart was broken, but she promised to stand by her husband. "For those of you who have been concerned that my marriage was so perfect I could not possibly relate to the women who are facing great difficulties, know that this will never again be the case," she wrote, evoking a ripple of laughter. "My test has begun; watch me. I will try to prove myself faithful." The congregation rose as one. For a long minute, they stood, applauding, hugging, sniffling. Interim senior pastor Ross Parsley bounded to the podium. "Listen," he said, "we all feel worse than we did a week ago. But we were worse off a week ago. Today, we all are more obedient, more repentant, more transparent than we've been in a long time." Here and there in the vast sanctuary, members of Haggard's congregation called out: "Amen." Afterward, in the lobby, many worshipers echoed Parsley's words. Some were angry at Pastor Ted; many were bewildered. But all said that their faith was not shaken; it was renewed. They would hold fast to all Haggard had taught them over the years, including his preaching that homosexual behavior is an affront to God. "He believes that what he taught us is true," said Carol Groesbeck, 61. "I don't think there's anything that needs to be re-evaluated," put in her husband, Jim, 61, an elder at New Life. "We know what we believe, but it's difficult to live that out. That's not just Ted's struggle. It's our struggle." Michelle Gatson, 37, said she felt reinvigorated by the service after a week that left her so spent, all she wanted to do was "be lying on the floor at home, crying." A member of the choir, she said she found healing in the songs of praise -- praise not for any man, but for God. "I love my pastor," she said. "But I'm glad I didn't put my faith in him. He's human." Added Ian Kallenbach, 26: "I hope he can deal with his demons." Stockstill -- who has been the Haggards' personal pastor for years -- said he saw only relief in Ted Haggard's face when he informed him on Saturday that he was being removed from his position at New Life. Haggard had been struggling for three years to balance his duties as pastor with the high-profile role as head of the evangelical association -- a job that raised his political profile and got him invited to the Oval Office and in on conference calls with the White House. Haggard had tried to carve out time to reflect and to write his books by secluding himself now and then in a Denver hotel. That is apparently when he first contacted the prostitute, Mike Jones, who advertised as a masseur in gay magazines. Haggard alluded to this period in his letter, saying that his pride had prevented him from seeking counseling; he hadn't wanted to disappoint those who loved him. "When I stopped communicating about my problems," he wrote, "the darkness increased and finally dominated me."
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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 75.
#2. To: Morgana le Fay (#0)
This is more proof that the churches of this country need a major reformation. Meaning... The corrupt elements of every house of God should be purged from the pulpits. Why this douchebag is still preaching is beyond me, and what's worse is that now that the jackass is forgiven, he'll be right back at fleecing the flock. More money will be what is needed to save him from himself right??? This is exactly why every church should be taxed, and every church treated like the business is REALLY is. The business of religion isn't about saving people, it's about more wealth confiscation. Today the Democrats had some blowhole in a church and every single one of the people in the audience had Harold Ford's name on a sign that says "For U.S. Senate." Tell me that there isn't a conflict of interest. What was worse, was Beelzebubba Clinton was in the front fucking row. Jesus Christ would vomit if he saw what was happening in these churces. Between that dickhead Mac Hammond, and now this crap, Jesus would be ill from it.
The guy is NOT 'still preaching'...........and you seem to have a problem with 'forgiveness'. You also seem to have a perverse idea of where Jesus Christ would go or what he would think--as I recall, all thru the Gospels (that's Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John) He tells the Pharisees and scribes that he seeks out SINNERS because the 'perfect' ones don't need him--I believe he used the case of a physician going to see the ill people because the healthy don't need a physician. However, He didn't have a problem calling some people hypocrits, nor ejecting money changers from the Temple. And while I don't attend a 'church', I do not want their religious services taxed. Anything they do, auxiliary-wise, though I don't have a problem with taxing. FOr instance, a church that has an elementary school program.......tuitition and any other form of income should be taxed IMO.
Hi dee - I have a problem with this myself as I think Christians are too quick to forgive swindlers and connivers. This man is not simply someone with a weakness - he's a throughly bad apple who has used his position of power and influence and trust to hurt other people AND this country. I don't think we should just "forgive" him. I think we need to see repentance here, and repentance is not just saying I'm sorry. It's showing by deed and action that you are. I think this guy is just sorry he got caught.
I think this guy is just sorry he got caught. YOU may think Christians are too easy to forgive, but you know....Jesus Christ says to forgive 70 x 7, and another time said if you brother keeps screwing up, you keep forgiving if he repents. Furthermore, Scripture also says that people are not to worship, i.e., sacrifice, if there is ill feelings against your brethren--you're to straighten it out first, i.e., forgive them, and then come back. You could well be 100% right about the guy, but it is not up to you to be forgiving him--IIRC, you're on the East Coast. Further, I don't think it is up to you OR I to be judging what is in the guys' heart. If he is all evil, his eternity will have him in the right place. Part of this 'judging' thing can be found in Romans 1 where God turns some people over to their own devices--in Greek, the words indicate or give the impression that God 'pushes' them away. That is HIS doing, HIS turning them over, for HIS purposes. I think it is dangerous territory to be judging God's actions or purposes. What do you mean by repentance? I ask because there are some really weird ideas about what repentance is. God knows the mans' heart. We only see the outside and try to guess the inside based on actions or our own biases.
I'm sorry, dee, but I think that's just naivete. We can't live like that. Maybe Jesus could, but he was Jesus - the rest of us can't live like that. We wouldn't be able to have a society. If Charles Manson said he was sorry after having all those people killed, should we just "forgive" him? How about Hitler? How far does this go? If people don't pay attention to what people DO, not what they say - but what they DO - they are just gonna continue to be played for fools. This guy Haggerd is a terrible man, and he's been playing his wife, family, entire congregation and this country for fools for a long time. I don't intend to merely "forgive" it and that's the end of it. What is forgiveness without repentence from the sinner? I see nothing that indicates this man has or will repent. I see that he's sorry for getting caught. People need to become more cynical about these "preachers" and alleged men of God. Many of them are evil and mislead the flock. They should not be "forgiven". They should be whipped out of 3 states, as I say. I'm strictly OT on that.
Accountability and forgiveness are two separate things. You can forgive someone for hurting you but that doesn't necessarily mean that they shouldn't still be punished. Haggard should be and needs to be held accountable for his breach of trust insofar as being removed from his pastoral position and he should not return regardless. But he could still be forgiven. I don't disagree with how careful people should be with whom they choose to trust.
That clearly addresses the issue. "I forgive you - now go away." Richard W.
LOL. You have a way of putting things into clear simple statements.
Well, we'll see if the fox tries to sneak back into the chicken coop. I seriously doubt if he will utter anything negative about homosexuals ever again though. Richard W.
I heard on the radio that Dobson will be counseling the Haggards. I expect a real miracle is in the works. Teddy is going to be turned back into a heterosexual and be returning to god's work soon. Richard W.
um..can he change teddy's biology? ;)
#76. To: christine (#75)
Sure Richard W.
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#20. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#2)
#23. To: rowdee (#20)
#30. To: mehitable (#23)
I have a problem with this myself as I think Christians are too quick to forgive swindlers and connivers. This man is not simply someone with a weakness - he's a throughly bad apple who has used his position of power and influence and trust to hurt other people AND this country. I don't think we should just "forgive" him. I think we need to see repentance here, and repentance is not just saying I'm sorry. It's showing by deed and action that you are.
#32. To: rowdee (#30)
(Edited)
#44. To: mehitable (#32)
If Charles Manson said he was sorry after having all those people killed, should we just "forgive" him? How about Hitler? How far does this go?
People need to become more cynical about these "preachers" and alleged men of God. Many of them are evil and mislead the flock.
#59. To: Neil McIver (#44)
Accountability and forgiveness are two separate things. You can forgive someone for hurting you but that doesn't necessarily mean that they shouldn't still be punished. Haggard should be and needs to be held accountable for his breach of trust insofar as being removed from his pastoral position and he should not return regardless. But he could still be forgiven.
#60. To: Arete (#59)
That clearly addresses the issue. "I forgive you - now go away."
#62. To: Burkeman1 (#60)
simple statements
#63. To: All (#62)
#75. To: Arete (#63)
I heard on the radio that Dobson will be counseling the Haggards. I expect a real miracle is in the works. Teddy is going to be turned back into a heterosexual and be returning to god's work soon.
Replies to Comment # 75. can he change teddy's biology?
End Trace Mode for Comment # 75.