4um: Flashback: Bob Gates, Iran Contra

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Title: Flashback: Bob Gates, Iran Contra
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/11/09/1444242
Published: Nov 9, 2006
Author: Transcript Excerpt
Post Date: 2006-11-14 09:10:45 by angle
Keywords: None
Views: 4605
Comments: 55

Excerpt: Defense Secretary Nominee Robert Gates Tied to Iran-Contra Scandal and the Secret Arming of Saddam Hussein...

ROBERT PARRY: Well, in a synopsis, the Iran-Contra scandal was an effort by the Reagan administration to circumvent various restrictions on carrying out their foreign policy, both in the Middle East and also in Central America.
The Contra part related to the Nicaraguan Contras who were put in place to fight the Sandinista government in Nicaragua. And when Congress tried to cut off that support from the CIA, the Reagan administration went around Congress by having Oliver North of the National Security Council, in essence, sort of oversee this operation of getting weapons and money to the Contras. But it still involved many people in the CIA, even when they were denying they were involved. We now know, based on the investigations, that CIA Director William Casey, who was Bob Gates’s direct supervisor, was deeply involved, as were people lower down the chain, including some of the station chiefs in the field.
In the case of the Middle East, the Reagan administration was carrying out secret policies to arm basically both sides of the Iran-Iraq War. This started, we now know, back in the very early part of the 1980s. By 1981, there were shipments of weapons that had been approved by the Reagan administration that went through Israel to Iran, and that continued on through to the mid-1980s. And at times when the Iranians would get the upper hand in the war with Iraq, the United States would tilt back and start helping the Iraqis, the government of Saddam Hussein. So there were efforts to move weapons through third countries that would help Saddam Hussein in his fight. There was military intelligence that was provided to assist him and even advice on how to use his air force. So there was this whole secret policy that was operating behind the scenes, and the Reagan administration essentially was trying to go around Congress, keep the intelligence committees as much in the dark as possible, and Bob Gates was in the center of almost all of that.
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#1. To: All (#0)
more...

...And let me just add one thing to what Bob said, because there’s an intelligence aspect that Bob Gates was responsible for in the 1980s that I am aware of. In order to have arms sales to Iran and secret deliveries from Israel to Iran, you had to change the intelligence analysis on Iran, and Bob Gates was part of that. He worked very closely, again, with Howard Teicher over at the National Security Council and Graham Fuller, his National Intelligence officer for the Middle East, to rewrite the intelligence record to say that Iran was no longer interested in terrorism, Iran was now looking to open up dialogue with the United States, that the Soviet Union was about to move into Iran. And this became the intelligence justification for Iran-Contra and why this operational policy had to be put into play.
There was no truth to any of these three charges, but Graham Fuller managed to get them into a National Intelligence Estimate...
All men die. Not all men truly live. Live for something, rather than die for nothing.
angle posted on 2006-11-14 9:19:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2. To: angle, burkeman1 (#1)
No one cares. If no one cared to bring up Rumsfeld meetings with Saddam (I mean the Kerry camp NEVER mentioned that! That is insane) why should they care about Iran-Contra?
Wise up.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Destro posted on 2006-11-14 9:40:42 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#3. To: Destro (#2)
fuck off. no one flagged you, shill.
All men die. Not all men truly live. Live for something, rather than die for nothing.
angle posted on 2006-11-14 9:43:20 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#4. To: angle (#0)
Wow. All that sanitized mention of Iran-Contra, and no mention of where the money was coming from. The CIA was selling cocaine. And when the market for cocaine proved too small, they promoted a new product that could be bought by the masses to widen that market, and it came to be known as "crack".
Which is why anyone who idolizes Ollie North, the crack selling, law breaking, perjuring, flag wearing pimp, disgusts me. It's a pretty good indicator that person has a uniform fetish.
the law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal bread.
bluedogtxn posted on 2006-11-14 9:58:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#5. To: angle (#3)
fuck off. no one flagged you, shill.

C'mon. You aren't on Free Republic or Liberty Post. A little civility wouldn't hurt you. I'm sure you meant, "nobody pinged you to this post so why don't you just ignore it, you shill."
Let's try to elevate the tone.
the law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal bread.
bluedogtxn posted on 2006-11-14 10:00:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#6. To: bluedogtxn (#5)
blue dog...no offense to you. I don't care to take any more time to elevate my response to a disruptor/shill.
All men die. Not all men truly live. Live for something, rather than die for nothing.
angle posted on 2006-11-14 10:07:13 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#7. To: angle, bluedogtxn (#6) (Edited)
blue dog...no offense to you. I don't care to take any more time to elevate my response to a disruptor/shill.

I dare angle to show how what I stated is disruptive or shilling?
A dare the fool.
I just stated that not even candidate Kerry brought up the fact that Rumsfeld had high level meetings with Saddam back in the 80s so why does anyone think Gates' oblique role in Iran-Contra will amount to anything?
Is that being distruptive? A shill? I just damned both power establishments with the above statement - for those not bright enough to figure that out.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Destro posted on 2006-11-14 10:24:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#8. To: bluedogtxn (#4)
Which is why anyone who idolizes Ollie North, the crack selling, law breaking, perjuring, flag wearing pimp, disgusts me. It's a pretty good indicator that person has a uniform fetish.

Yep They would be part of the 30% of the population that would believe the earth is flat if so said by a good looking man wearing a suit on TV.

tom007 posted on 2006-11-14 10:47:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#9. To: angle (#6)
blue dog...no offense to you. I don't care to take any more time to elevate my response to a disruptor/shill.

Well, you can look at Destro's explanation of his remarks posted here, and it doesn't look like he was particularly "shilling" this time. That's in the eye of the beholder of course, as far as I'm concerned, and if you think someone's shilling, have at them by all means. It's the "fuck off" part that bothers me. Believe me, if you read my posts on El pee, you can be sure that I haven't been reluctant to go after people in that way on THAT site.
But this isn't that site, and it's not Freak Republic. Out of respect for Christine, I try to be as polite as possible. I don't shy from profanity, but I do try to avoid "directed profanity", as in "fuck you, fuck off, piss off, you suck, you're momma was a whore, etc."
And I'm not talking about making yourself look good or civilized or polite or whatever. I'm talking about this site not deteriorating into El pee or the Freak House.
Again, not meant to be cutting or disrespectful in anyway, I'm just suggesting.
the law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal bread.
bluedogtxn posted on 2006-11-14 10:49:16 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#10. To: Destro (#7)
I dare angle to show how what I stated is disruptive or shilling?
A dare the fool.

Why don't you just explain it to him, then. Without the "fool" nonsense.
the law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal bread.
bluedogtxn posted on 2006-11-14 11:00:52 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#11. To: Destro (#2)
The Kerry camp didn't do the obvious that a serious candidate for President would have done:
He didn't run ads asking where the biggest mass murderer in US was and why hadn't he been captured- Osama Bin Laden.
He didn't run ads showing Bush landing on the aircraft carrier proclaiming victory in his little boy flight suit and then list the number of Americans killed since that day.
And those are just the things he could have done and stayed with the fraud parameters of beltway "debate".
I suspect more and more that he was a putupjob.

Burkeman1 posted on 2006-11-14 11:01:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#12. To: bluedogtxn (#9)
Ok. If I could edit it, I would. Doesn't change things about the shill, however.
All men die. Not all men truly live. Live for something, rather than die for nothing.
angle posted on 2006-11-14 11:05:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#13. To: tom007 (#8)
Yep They would be part of the 30% of the population that would believe the earth is flat if so said by a good looking man wearing a suit on TV.

I watched that bastard testify back in the day during the congressional hearings, and I couldn't believe the coverage he got. He grunted his manly sounds and the reporters "oohed" and "aahed" like he was some kind of hero. "I'll meet Abu Nidal any time, anywhere..." was one of his silly faux macho posturing phrases, and they lapped it up like a bunch of GOP bottoms at a Skull and Bones meeting.
Nevermind that he was selling crack to school kids who were toting machine guns and blasting the hell out of neighborhoods in LA and New York. Oh no. He draped himself in the flag and the uniform he'd disgraced and became a goddamn celebrity.
The treasonous fucker.
the law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal bread.
bluedogtxn posted on 2006-11-14 11:06:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#14. To: Burkeman1, angle, bluedogtxn (#11)
Oh, you must be a shill and disruptor as well. The reason Kerry never mentioned any of the above or do them is he would have followed the exact same Bush policy the cryptocracy makes Bush follow - the appearance of the cryptocracy fronted by Baker-Hamilton commission plus the shift to the Democrats in a slight way indicates the masters of this nation are changing course.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Destro posted on 2006-11-14 11:06:32 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#15. To: Burkeman1 (#11)
putupjob

I agree. Kerry's a cardboard cutout they trot out for distraction purposes.
All men die. Not all men truly live. Live for something, rather than die for nothing.
angle posted on 2006-11-14 11:07:13 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#16. To: Burkeman1 (#11)
I suspect more and more that he was a putupjob.

Skull and Boner all the way.
the law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal bread.
bluedogtxn posted on 2006-11-14 11:07:23 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#17. To: angle (#12)
Ok. If I could edit it, I would. Doesn't change things about the shill, however.

Peace.
the law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal bread.
bluedogtxn posted on 2006-11-14 11:09:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#18. To: bluedogtxn, angle (#10)
Why don't you just explain it to him, then. Without the "fool" nonsense.

I have to do no such thing.
It's up to that fool angle to explain why he calls me a shill based on the above post of mine - shill for who? What?
I know I scare some people - they feel threatened by my posts - Good - Let them be afraid.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Destro posted on 2006-11-14 11:09:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#19. To: Destro (#14)
plus the shift to the Democrats in a slight way indicates the masters of this nation are changing course.

Well, let's hope they change course in a good way.
the law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal bread.
bluedogtxn posted on 2006-11-14 11:11:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#20. To: bluedogtxn (#13)
The treasonous fucker.

Ain't he though.
All men die. Not all men truly live. Live for something, rather than die for nothing.
angle posted on 2006-11-14 11:12:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#21. To: bluedogtxn (#13)
Oliver North was working with, friends with, and financing Cuban terrorists who had blown a civilian aircraft out of the sky killing 78 Cuban civilians at the time of Iran Contra. You hobnob and praise men who justify killing their own civilian countrymen for the "greater good" and you are going to tell me that such morality doesn't eventually come home to roost? That eventually the tactics of evil our covert government committs abroad are not going to be used at home- on us?
9/11 couldn't have been an inside job because our government is too good . . . give me a break.

Burkeman1 posted on 2006-11-14 11:13:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#22. To: Destro (#18)
I have to do no such thing.

You are absolutely right. Courtesy is not in any way obligatory.
the law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal bread.
bluedogtxn posted on 2006-11-14 11:14:16 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#23. To: Burkeman1, angle (#21)
Oliver North was working with, friends with, and financing Cuban terrorists who had blown a civilian aircraft out of the sky killing 78 Cuban civilians at the time of Iran Contra. You hobnob and praise men who justify killing their own civilian countrymen for the "greater good" and you are going to tell me that such morality doesn't eventually come home to roost?

Ollie should have been sent to prison for life, given what he did, and his CIA masters should have been, too. And Ray-gun should have been impeached.
What a sorry spectacle that was.
the law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal bread.
bluedogtxn posted on 2006-11-14 11:17:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#24. To: bluedogtxn, burkeman1, angle, diana (#19)
plus the shift to the Democrats in a slight way indicates the masters of this nation are changing course. Well, let's hope they change course in a good way.

They cryptocracy or more accuratly the powers behind the throne is not a well understood phenomenon. It is really a coalition of interests that shift around and reform up again. People still don't get how power works in DC. You have factions. These factions have different agendas but when they overlap they form alliances to carry out the policy.
I can illustrate the point best with what happened when Clinton was in office and we went to war over Kosovo:
In Kosovo/Balkans you had a perfect storm of special interests.
NATO generals and war industry wanting to give the alliance a new mission to keep their cushy jobs.
Humanitarian lefty do gooders wanting to use the end of the cold war for their plans to reform the world along internationalist/globalist lines.
Neocons who wanted to force America into an overseas empire by breaking her cherry in the Balkans.
Some Zionists (Labour) who wanted to show the world the USA defends Muslims (just not the ones Israel does not like) to get the heat off of Israel (Likud did not like the idea - Zionists are not always on the same page in terms of strategy).
The 24hour cabal news cycle which came to its own in the 90s and needed the stories - so was eager to push the Clinton lies.
The pipeline builders - the ones that would pay for this all. All the above is fine but you need money to justify wars - no matter how a humanitarian a mission - it is always about profit and potential profit - especially with the end of the Cold War.
They all partnered up and then got the president to do the deed or to be more accurate - front the deed.
That is why sometimes when a group seems pro war in one case they are not so much in another. Clearly the Iraq war was disapproved by some intrests but they were outvoted.
Sometimes this shadow govt coalition partner is a minor partner like the Neocons were minor partners in the Kosovo war and then the form their own power coalitions and lead the next consortium like the Neocons did after 9/11.
That is what throws people off when they try and figure out who is in charge in DC - it is an ever shifting group of power brokers - some come - some go - some are always there. All are too weak to act on themselves most of the time.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Destro posted on 2006-11-14 11:56:26 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#25. To: Destro (#24)
That is what throws people off when they try and figure out who is in charge in DC - it is an ever shifting group of power brokers - some come - some go - some are always there. All are too weak to act on themselves most of the time.

Pretty much sums it up. And the two party fraud is the Kabuki theater that blocks most of this shadow government from view and what most people get caught up in.
The fall of Nixon was another "perfect storm" where the intersts of DC's permanent bureaucracies, MIC corporate parasites, lefties, and the media converged to make him essentially the fall guy for a botched war and almost a cathartic end to the "60's".

Burkeman1 posted on 2006-11-14 12:03:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#26. To: Burkeman1, bluedogtxn, angle, diana (#25) (Edited)
The fall of Nixon was another "perfect storm" where the intersts of DC's permanent bureaucracies, MIC corporate parasites, lefties, and the media converged to make him essentially the fall guy for a botched war and almost a cathartic end to the "60's".

The elected leaders themselves are part of this shadow govt - though on a surface level. They also have to be courted or bribed or threatened - depends on what the agenda is.
People forget how close to civil insurrection we were in the 60s - or to be more accurate the establishment felt we were close to insurrection. They also knew Vietnam was over - they made as much money as they were going to make off that war and it was time to shut it down - but the politicians that fronted the Vietnam war could not so easily end it and still save their political face/reputation.
I know Oliver Stone is considered a flake - but he came close to trying to conceptualize this coalitional shadow govt and its relationship to our elected leaders in his movie 'Nixon'. See the scene where Nixon meets up with them and is threatened and he threatens back.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Destro posted on 2006-11-14 12:11:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#27. To: Burkeman1, bluedogtxn, angle, diana (#25) (Edited)
Pretty much sums it up.

I bring up Kosovo because it woke me up. My readings about why Kosovo was happening made me stumble onto this.
Kosovo is the best example one can use to expose how DC works because they overreached and got sloppy there and failed in their full objectives which allowed more truth to come out - as well as the appearance of the Internet which got around official news sources.
So Kosovo serves as the best example I can autopsy and illustrate the point in a few short sentences.
PS: I want to emphasize the power of money in this coalition building - money as in profit.
If a profit is to be made the war effort will be sustained even if it looks like the war is already lost. See Vietnam and Iraq.
In some cases there is no profit involved but politics/ideology like in Korea or Isreal's recent invasion of Lebanon. Case in point, the Israeli invasion of Lebanon was a political act - there was no money to be made for America there. When the Israelis failed to win their war aims the USA shut the war down. In Iraq there is still money to be made so the urge to end that disaster is resisted.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Destro posted on 2006-11-14 12:19:05 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#28. To: Destro (#27)
I bring up Kosovo because it woke me up.

That was the start of my awakening as well. I remember being attacked on Freakerland by the then growing ranks of Neowhore posters over this issue- wondering what the hell these people were doing on a "conservative" sight.

Burkeman1 posted on 2006-11-14 12:28:50 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#29. To: Burkeman1 (#28)
That was the start of my awakening as well. I remember being attacked on Freakerland by the then growing ranks of Neowhore posters over this issue- wondering what the hell these people were doing on a "conservative" sight.

We Balkan posters hanged around long enough to win some converts on freekland - even before 9/11 turned the site into a Muslim hate fest.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Destro posted on 2006-11-14 12:32:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#30. To: Destro (#29)
Freakerland is indeed the heart and soul of the "conservative" movement in this country . . . vicious, hateful, paranoid, afraid of innumberable boogeymen that for all intent and purpose DON'T EXIST, proudly ignorant of anything beyond the borders of America, utterly incapable of seeing anything from any other standpoint but of "America's", puffed up with the cheapest of patriotism that really is little more than worshipping the Federal standing military, war memorials, and Washington DC in general, cowardly but yet bloodthirsty, approving of indiscriminate warfare against civilians- indeed, believes anything less than such is "appeasement" and running a "PC war" . . .
In short- it is utterly bankrupt and evil- a movement controlled and coralled by DC itself and used to serve its ends.

Burkeman1 posted on 2006-11-14 12:41:43 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#31. To: Burkeman1 (#30)
In short- [freakrepublic] is utterly bankrupt and evil- a movement controlled and coralled by DC itself and used to serve its ends.

yes, but when Clinton was president and we were on there they allowed enough of true conservative thoughtful types to post.
But once Bush was elected the purging began until all you were left with were Orwellian caricatures of party slogan chanting 'doublethink' drones.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Destro posted on 2006-11-14 12:49:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#32. To: Destro (#31)
They hadn't bought that site yet in the late 90's and the time of Kosovo. By 2002 Freakerland had become a de facto BOT site primed and pumped with GOP cash and anyone still left who wasn't one- didn't have long left on that site.

Burkeman1 posted on 2006-11-14 12:53:24 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#33. To: Burkeman1 (#32)
anyone still left who wasn't one- didn't have long left on that site.

Freekrepublic showed me what life would have been like in a Stalinist '1984' like system in microform.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Destro posted on 2006-11-14 12:56:23 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#34. To: Destro (#31)
left with were Orwellian caricatures of party slogan chanting 'doublethink' drones.

And by the way- that is not an exxageration of what is indeed left on Freakerland . . . utterly unthinking automatons. I literally have nothing to say to such people as they generally have no understanding or aquaintance with conservative thinkers and writers (and I don't mean Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter) and they all display a complete lack of ability for critical thought- or to even follow simple logical arguments.

Burkeman1 posted on 2006-11-14 12:57:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#35. To: All (#0)
in a synopsis, the Iran-Contra scandal was an effort by the Reagan administration to circumvent various restrictions on carrying out their foreign policy, both in the Middle East and also in Central America.

From Melvin Goodman, same article:
So Bob Gates will serve a master, but I don’t think he’ll be a careful steward of the Pentagon and of the $460 billion defense budget. And the question is, has he now somehow obtained the maturity and integrity to run the Pentagon? I don’t think he has. And now, it’s up to the Senate Armed Forces Committee to make serious decisions about his ability to serve in this very sensitive position.
All men die. Not all men truly live. Live for something, rather than die for nothing.
angle posted on 2006-11-14 14:11:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#36. To: Destro (#2)
Hell, the Democrats haven't offered any alternative to the Bush formulated war on a tictac in 5 years. And they had ample evidence, like the head of Pakistan's ISI wiring 100K to Atta via Omar Sheikh. They waited until the generals came out to slam Bush.
In Iran Contra, like the 911 commission, investigations before a certain date were consensually ignored.
No one will overturn that rock. What's the upside for Dems to go all that way back; all it'll demonstrate is their culpability.
Kerry was virtually the worst candidate. Ever.

swarthyguy posted on 2006-11-14 14:21:43 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#37. To: swarthyguy, angle (#36) (Edited)
Kerry was the tale side of the same coin. Heads or tails - same rulers.
By the way - did you know that angle outed me as a shill? For who I don't know yet. Maybe he can tell us one day.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Destro posted on 2006-11-14 14:34:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#38. To: Destro (#37)
a shill? For who I don't know yet

Have a bagel.

swarthyguy posted on 2006-11-14 14:36:22 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#39. To: angle, Burkeman1, bluedogtxn, angle, diana, swarthyguy (#35)
So Bob Gates will serve a master, but I don’t think he’ll be a careful steward of the Pentagon and of the $460 billion defense budget. And the question is, has he now somehow obtained the maturity and integrity to run the Pentagon? I don’t think he has. And now, it’s up to the Senate Armed Forces Committee to make serious decisions about his ability to serve in this very sensitive position.

Clue to Melvin Goodman - Gates was selected to implement the Baker-Hamilton Commission recommendations - not to be a steward of the Pentagon. I don't even think Gates takes his orders from the president but from Baker.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Destro posted on 2006-11-14 14:54:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#40. To: swarthyguy (#38)
Have a bagel.

Impossible - I'm uncircumcised.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Destro posted on 2006-11-14 14:55:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#41. To: Destro (#40)
Are you a woman?
Most Profound Man in Iraq — An unidentified farmer in a fairly remote area who, after being asked by Reconnaissance Marines if he had seen any foreign fighters in the area replied "Yes, you."
robin posted on 2006-11-14 15:13:16 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#42. To: robin (#41)
Could This Be The Mark Of The Beast?
Carl Sanders sat in 17 New World Order meetings with heads of state officials such as Henry Kissinger and Bob Gates of the CIA to discuss plans on how to bring about this One World System. The government commissioned Carl Sanders to design a biochip for identifying and controlling the peoples of the world— a biochip that could be inserted under the skin with a hypodermic needle (a quick/convenient method that would be gradually accepted by society).
FULL STORY http://www.trumpetmin.org/mark%20of%20beast.htm
The mind once expanded by a new idea never returns to its' original size
Itisa1mosttoolate posted on 2006-11-14 15:25:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#43. To: robin (#41)
Are you a woman?

My penis is intact - unlike your half men in America.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Destro posted on 2006-11-14 15:27:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#44. To: Itisa1mosttoolate (#42)
Bob Gates had his fingers in everything, Iran/Contra, NWO, all things Bush Cabal.
Most Profound Man in Iraq — An unidentified farmer in a fairly remote area who, after being asked by Reconnaissance Marines if he had seen any foreign fighters in the area replied "Yes, you."
robin posted on 2006-11-14 15:27:24 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#45. To: Itisa1mosttoolate (#42)
Could This Be The Mark Of The Beast?

No.
Find another cult.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Destro posted on 2006-11-14 15:28:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#46. To: Destro (#43)
The AMA recommendations are Talmud approved, but not all the mothers of America went along with it.
Most Profound Man in Iraq — An unidentified farmer in a fairly remote area who, after being asked by Reconnaissance Marines if he had seen any foreign fighters in the area replied "Yes, you."
robin posted on 2006-11-14 15:28:55 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#47. To: robin (#46)
I still don't get where you equated circumcision and female from. Circumcision was introduced as a measure to stop Victorian era boys from masturbating because it desensitized the penis - wanking was something they thought weakened men because it discharged vital fluids - that is the origin of linking wanking off with the fear of going blind. Then when that proved BS it was kept for supposed hygienic and cosmetic reasons. I know of no Jew plot to do that to Americans.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Destro posted on 2006-11-14 15:37:26 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#48. To: Destro (#47) (Edited)
Then when that proved BS it was kept for supposed hygienic and cosmetic reasons. I know of no Jew plot to do that to Americans.

You could find those who would disagree with you on both counts, although I've never heard of cosmetic reasons.
This reply would be true of a woman as well as an uncircumcised male. I was just trying to eliminate that possibility.
Impossible - I'm uncircumcised.
Most Profound Man in Iraq — An unidentified farmer in a fairly remote area who, after being asked by Reconnaissance Marines if he had seen any foreign fighters in the area replied "Yes, you."
robin posted on 2006-11-14 15:59:17 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#49. To: angle (#0)
The Bush machine put Gates up knowing that the Jewish lobby will be loathe to bring up Iran-Contra. Israel's role in that fiasco is too deep for the the Lobby to allow much discussion of the matter.
"...it is unlawful in the ordinary course of things or in a private house to murder a child; it should not be permitted any sect then to sacrifice children." -Thomas Jefferson
bluegrass posted on 2006-11-14 16:06:24 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#50. To: robin, all (#44)
Don't get sidetracked by the shill. The shtick's old.

More:
...Given what happened now with this election, do you have any hope that the new congress will take a deeper look into some of these issues surrounding Bob Gates and the intelligence failures and spinning of the Bush administration?

ROBERT PARRY: Well, as a journalist, I always hope that information will come out somehow, but it does appear that the strategy that the Bush White House is following is to release -- first of all, release this information the day after the election, in a sense give in to one of the chief Democratic demands -- that is, the ouster of Rumsfeld -- and then say that there must be quick action on Bob Gates's nomination. I think yesterday there was an announcement by the Armed Services Committee, the chairman and the ranking Democrat, that they would move expeditiously on the Gates nomination and push it through before the end of the year -- that is, in the lame-duck session of the Congress, the Republican-controlled congress.
I'm thinking perhaps a concerted effort to protest the Gates nomination is the first order of the week.
All men die. Not all men truly live. Live for something, rather than die for nothing.
angle posted on 2006-11-14 16:26:03 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#51. To: angle (#50) (Edited)
I'm thinking perhaps a concerted effort to protest the Gates nomination is the first order of the week.

If the Dems can show ties to KBR/Halliburton that might work. According to Dick Morris they will be investigating the no-bid cost-plus contracts.
Most Profound Man in Iraq — An unidentified farmer in a fairly remote area who, after being asked by Reconnaissance Marines if he had seen any foreign fighters in the area replied "Yes, you."
robin posted on 2006-11-14 16:35:59 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#52. To: robin (#51) (Edited)
Dick Morris is a waste of time.

Did you read the above post indicating the push to have the Gates nomination in the lame duck session before the dems come in?
I was referring to a concerted effort by citizens to bomblast their representatives with phone calls and letters expressing outrage over the Gates nomination. This would pertain only to the crooks, er, representatives keeping their seats, as those are the one who might feel a bit vunerable.
Senator Contact Info:
http:/ /www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm
Congress Contact Info:
www.house.gov/house/MemberWWW.shtml
Newspapers and radio couldn't hurt either.
All men die. Not all men truly live. Live for something, rather than die for nothing.
angle posted on 2006-11-14 16:56:02 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#53. To: angle (#52)
I was referring to a concerted effort by citizens to bomblast their representatives with phone calls and letters expressing outrage over the Gates nomination. This would pertain only to the crooks, er, representatives keeping their seats, as those are the one who might feel a bit vunerable.
Senator Contact Info:
http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm
Congress Contact Info:
www.house.gov/house/MemberWWW.shtml
Newspapers and radio couldn't hurt either.

worth repeating
Most Profound Man in Iraq — An unidentified farmer in a fairly remote area who, after being asked by Reconnaissance Marines if he had seen any foreign fighters in the area replied "Yes, you."
robin posted on 2006-11-14 19:07:14 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#54. To: robin (#51) (Edited)
Robin, I think you're dreaming and engaging in wishful thinking.
When Dianne Feinstein's husband is the CEO of Parsons, a subcontractor to the Haliban and Kellogg, Brown and Root, what motivation do the Democrats have.
Gates was consensually agreed upon by the Dem Leadership.
You expect the Dems, who've consistently rolled over the past 5 years to suddenly overturn rocks. Well, they may, but in a strictly limited fashion, a la IranContra and the 911 Whitewashes.

swarthyguy posted on 2006-11-15 14:02:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#55. To: swarthyguy (#54)
Well, they may, but in a strictly limited fashion

Agreed, but anything is better than nothing. And slowing down the insanity that KBR/Halliburton have been getting away with, is good.
Most Profound Man in Iraq — An unidentified farmer in a fairly remote area who, after being asked by Reconnaissance Marines if he had seen any foreign fighters in the area replied "Yes, you."
robin posted on 2006-11-15 14:18:43 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
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