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Resistance
See other Resistance Articles

Title: Is America In Danger Of A Second Civil War?
Source: TCS DAILY
URL Source: http://www.tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=112906B
Published: Nov 29, 2006
Author: Glenn Harlan Reynolds
Post Date: 2006-11-29 13:15:05 by Brian S
Keywords: None
Views: 375
Comments: 23

Is America in danger of civil war? Not immediately, perhaps, but famed science fiction writer Orson Scott Card thinks that we're in enough danger that he's authored a cautionary tale entitled Empire that's set in more-or-less present times.

In Card's novel, which is straight thriller fiction a la Jack Bauer rather than the science fiction for which Card is generally known, shadowy forces use terror and assassination to trigger a civil war in an America sharply divided along Red/Blue lines. In the Afterword, Card writes:

"Rarely do people set out to start a civil war. Invariably, when such wars break out both sides consider themselves to be the aggrieved ones."

Such is the case now, he notes, when both Left and Right feel threatened by the other side, and unfairly so:

"Can it lead to war? Very simply, yes. The moment one group feels itself so aggrieved that it uses either its own weapons or the weapons of the state to 'prevent' the other side from bringing about its supposed 'evil' designs, then that other side will have no choice but to take up arms against them. Both sides will believe the other to be the instigator . . . . In America today, we are complacent in our belief that it can't happen here."

Well, I certainly don't believe that it can't happen here. Civil war can happen anywhere and, given enough time, usually does. And it happened here once, after all.

I've noted before that one of the great American accomplishments was to get over the Civil War without the kind of lingering bitterness that often marks -- and reignites -- such conflicts elsewhere. And we can, perhaps, thank the ongoing Civil War reminiscence industry for helping to keep the horrors of that war alive in people's memories. Throughout the remainder of the 19th Century, many people feared a reignition of the Civil War, but it didn't happen.

Nonetheless, Card's cautionary tale is worth bearing in mind. Civil wars are, traditionally, among the most bloody, and the hardest to prevent once the ball gets rolling. So what do we do?

One question is "who's 'we' here?" I don't see much of a sign that the American public -- which, after all, overwhelmingly favored centrists in this month's elections -- is as divided as Card suggests. But -- as Card also notes -- the elites are much more divided, and the media tend to play up those divisions, because division and conflict are good story-drivers. ("We live in a time when moderates are treated worse than extremists, being punished as if they were more fanatical than the actual fanatics.") To the "activist" crowd on the left and right, people who don't share their views 100% are evil, and on the other side. This tends to backfire politically, which I think is why the elections favored centrists this time, but that doesn't stop the polarization. In a way, it tends to make it worse.

I think that we're a long way from a civil war. But I also think that Card's right to warn people against too much division, and too little emphasis on our common interests as Americans. While I don't think that we're in danger of a civil war, I do think that our current political system is unhealthy, with polarization serving mostly as a tool for the folks in power to keep their bases in line, while they pursue agendas that are mostly self-serving. I hope that both the people and the press will make some conscious efforts to moderate the tone, and make that approach less effective.

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#1. To: Brian S (#0)

The problem is that the Centrists are radical, anti-patriotic, and dangerous.

JohnGalt  posted on  2006-11-29   13:55:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Brian S (#0)

I think that we're a long way from a civil war. But I also think that Card's right to warn people against too much division, and too little emphasis on our common interests as Americans. While I don't think that we're in danger of a civil war, I do think that our current political system is unhealthy, with polarization serving mostly as a tool for the folks in power to keep their bases in line, while they pursue agendas that are mostly self-serving. I hope that both the people and the press will make some conscious efforts to moderate the tone, and make that approach less effective.

http://freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=40446&Disp

"The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer."
---Henry Kissinger, New York Times, October 28, 1973

robin  posted on  2006-11-29   13:58:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Brian S (#0)

We cannot help but be divided. As immigration continues, there is nothing to hold us together as a society. A real society is based on a common language, culture, manners, ideals, beliefs, history - we have increasingly less of that. I don't know if there will be one BIG civil war (although if we do, it will be Mexicans vs. Americans). We may well have an ongoing status of many civil wars, ala the Balkans. Multi-culturalism inherently leads to division, not unity. There is no strong society that has ever emerged or thrived with a multi-cultural basis.

"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."

mehitable  posted on  2006-11-29   14:09:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: mehitable (#3)

We cannot help but be divided. As immigration continues, there is nothing to hold us together as a society.

We've had waves of massive immigration before. One such wave was arguably partially responsible for the Civil War (the migration of so many Germanic state-worshippers into the North). Certainly they can lead to civil war. But there are forces that bind us, too. Certain common values that come from being "American" that even the immigrants quickly adopt. Must we have a civil war? Certainly not. Is it likely to happen soon? Probably not. The closest we've come recently to that kind of divisiveness was the 2004 election and its run up. 2006 has given us a chance to step back.

Cultural divisions and ethnic divisions do not inevitably lead to political division. It is a thing to be cognizant of, but not something to worry about.

the law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal bread.

bluedogtxn  posted on  2006-11-29   14:16:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: bluedogtxn (#4)

Cultural divisions and ethnic divisions do not inevitably lead to political division. It is a thing to be cognizant of, but not something to worry about.

Cultural divisions inevitably lead to political and social division and generally to war. We can see this throughout history and time. It's one of the immutables of human existence. The only thing that ameliorated this in the past with our immigration was that we INSISTED that immigrants become as much like us as possible, in terms of adopting our language and customs and appearance (in dress and so forth). Under the guise of multi-culturalism now, people no longer want to do this - they want to maintain their own culture, language, practices, etc, rather than melting into that ole melting pot. And the more different the immigrants are from the original stock, and from each other, the less cohesiveness there is. At least immigrants in the past were mainly Europeans with a Christian, or even Judeo-Christian background. There is no way on earth we are going to assimilate Spanish speakers, Muslims, vast numbers of Asians (although they might have the best chance as they TRY to assimilate as quickly as possible).

"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."

mehitable  posted on  2006-11-29   14:30:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: bluedogtxn, mehitable, all (#4)

We've had waves of massive immigration before.

You're confusing this current ILLEGAL invasion with a regulated, orderly, wanted LEGAL immigration that benefited the nation. I can think of two times in recent history when *all* immigration was stopped so the great melting pot could kick in. Today it's broken. What we're witnessing now is the meshing of three nations; a concept developed in the bowels of the CFR by elitists. It’s nothing short of treason.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2006-11-29   14:38:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Jethro Tull (#6)

It’s nothing short of treason.

bump

"Taxes are not raised to carry on wars, wars are raised to carry on taxes."
-Thomas Paine

Lod  posted on  2006-11-29   14:45:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: mehitable (#5)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120086/

Not that easy to find, but worth it.

"The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer."
---Henry Kissinger, New York Times, October 28, 1973

robin  posted on  2006-11-29   14:47:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Brian S (#0)

As long as the American people have American Idol, Wal-Mart, and Mickey-Deeze there will be no civil war.

"Yours are the eyes through which the compassion of Christ must look out on the world. Yours are the feet with which he is to go about doing good. Yours are the hands with which he is to bless his people" - St. Teresa of Avila.

Fibr Dog  posted on  2006-11-29   14:59:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Fibr Dog (#9)

As long as the American people have American Idol, Wal-Mart, and Mickey-Deeze there will be no civil war.

Amend that to "As long as the American people can AFFORD American Idol, Wal- Mart and Mickey Deeze"...

There will be no civil war.

the law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal bread.

bluedogtxn  posted on  2006-11-29   15:12:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: robin (#8)

Ha!!! I should look for this one - I guess this wasn't released as much as it escaped. I'm amazed that Hollyweird would even touch this topic.

"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."

mehitable  posted on  2006-11-29   15:20:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: bluedogtxn (#10)

Amend that to "As long as the American people can AFFORD American Idol, Wal- Mart and Mickey Deeze"...

There will be no civil war.

You are correct. Your statement is better. However, I think we will see a time when the government will expend a great amount of energy to ensure we maintain these 21st century breads and circuses. We may be required to goose-step up and down the road and yell an American version of seig-heil to the federal government, but as long as we can still watch American Idol, shop at Wal-Mart, and eat at Mickey-Deeze we'll still claim ourselves the freest people on the face of the earth.

"Yours are the eyes through which the compassion of Christ must look out on the world. Yours are the feet with which he is to go about doing good. Yours are the hands with which he is to bless his people" - St. Teresa of Avila.

Fibr Dog  posted on  2006-11-29   15:24:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Jethro Tull (#6) (Edited)

You're confusing this current ILLEGAL invasion with a regulated, orderly, wanted LEGAL immigration

Good point to stress. I don't think we could even manage "legal" immigration at this point. However immigrants in the past were forced to conform to various regulations of language, health, financial status, and behavior. We didn't tolerate much "deviation" or multi-cultural diversity. You tried to become like every one else who was already here. That is the ONLY WAY immigration can work. A society can only function if it is as cohesive as possible with shared values, culture, language etc. The more different groups are from each other, the more possible fault lines emerge. It was critical that immigrants of the past leave behind their native lands and cultures as quickly as possible and learn to think of themselves as Americans and adopt the dominant culture. This is no longer true.

"I woke up in the CRAZY HOUSE."

mehitable  posted on  2006-11-29   15:24:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Fibr Dog (#12)

but as long as we can still watch American Idol, shop at Wal-Mart, and eat at Mickey-Deeze we'll still claim ourselves the freest people on the face of the earth.

You betcha.

the law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal bread.

bluedogtxn  posted on  2006-11-29   15:30:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Brian S (#0)

Actually the war of 1861 to 1865 was not a civil war. It was a war between two nations each with a standing army one of which wanted to gain independence from the other. (Much like the American "revolution" which was not a revolution either).

there were civil wars in America but they were very small scale and confined to single Western states and regarded as just "wild west shootouts".

The "wild west shootouts" which were actually civil wars were these.

Loncoln County War - New Mexico, circa 1880s ("Wild west" criminal Billy the Kid became famous largely due to this one.)

Johnson County War - Whyoming, circa late 1880s - early 1890s

Coral Snake  posted on  2006-11-29   20:15:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: bluedogtxn (#14)

And most of the folks in 1776-1779 played cards, drank, attended the theatres and whored their way through the War of Independence not paying attention to either side. The masses, contrary to what Karl Marx wrote NEVER made a revolution, or any other kind of world changing invention or organized accomplishment. They were always "sheeple" addicted to the mass entertainments the elites provided to make money off them or keep them in line.

Actually the term "sheeple" is unfair to REAL SHEEP who will at least try to kick you to death when you sheer them.

Coral Snake  posted on  2006-11-29   20:28:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: mehitable (#13)

The reason that immigrants don't scare me as much as the fat dumb and happy typical American is that the immigrant probably has more of what made america great in him than the FD&H American.

I've yet to experience the evil side of the hispanic invasion from Mexico. My only "hands on" experience comes from dealings with the people I see around here. I don't know their legal status, but I do know they work and work hard, and seem mostly loyal and honest.

My brother has 4 or 5 Mexicans working for him, all legal, all taxpaying, etc. I had the pleasure of working with them for a day over the holiday weekend. I went to wire up my brother's shop for some new equipment he had delivered. They way they worked for my bro amazed me.

As far as civil war is concerned, personally, I think we'll see a revolution before we see a civil war. I think the national ID will be one of the catalysts. There are lots of folks who will not go along with that, and will also not go to jail for not going along. ;)


The Subversive Firearms Forums

Critter  posted on  2006-11-29   20:44:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Brian S (#0)

Card should stick to fiction and stay out of politics. He's a fool who supports the current wars.

"We become what we behold. We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." -- Marshall McLuhan, after Alexander Pope and William Blake.

YertleTurtle  posted on  2006-11-29   21:00:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Brian S (#0)

And we can, perhaps, thank the ongoing Civil War reminiscence industry for helping to keep the horrors of that war alive in people's memories.

I've noted before that one of the great American accomplishments was to get over the Civil War without the kind of lingering bitterness that often marks -- and reignites -- such conflicts elsewhere.

So what do you suggest? Just forget it ever happened? The politically correct would have us do just that. The older I get, the more I realise that the wrong side won that war. Forget HELL!!!!

Apparently, the author is delusional or has never been to Alabama.

Rube Goldberg  posted on  2006-11-30   0:34:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: bluedogtxn (#4)

One such wave was arguably partially responsible for the Civil War (the migration of so many Germanic state-worshippers into the North).

So now the Germans are responsible for the civil war too? Balderdash.

Rube Goldberg  posted on  2006-11-30   0:37:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Coral Snake (#16)

Kudos. Sharp post.

the law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal bread.

bluedogtxn  posted on  2006-11-30   11:09:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Critter (#17)

I don't know their legal status, but I do know they work and work hard, and seem mostly loyal and honest.

It has been 6 years since I left Texas but this has been my experience also...

It's all "Diebolds" fault...

Brian S  posted on  2006-11-30   11:23:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Rube Goldberg (#20)

One such wave was arguably partially responsible for the Civil War (the migration of so many Germanic state-worshippers into the North). So now the Germans are responsible for the civil war too? Balderdash.

The Germans certainly were NOT solely responsible for the Civil War. They did, however, by and large support the radical Republicans who WERE responsible for the Civil War, and they were the most rabidly statist of the Union Troops. An anecdote illustrating this comes from the surrender of the confederates at the end of the war. A German immigrant who had become a Union Officer told one of the surrendering confederates (whose father had fought in the revolution) that now he would "teach him how to be a good American".

the law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal bread.

bluedogtxn  posted on  2006-11-30   11:32:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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