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Title: 50 shots
Source:
Rockwell
URL Source: [None]
Published: Dec 1, 2006
Author: by A.D Lelong
Post Date: 2006-12-01 12:53:01 by bluedogtxn
Keywords: None
Views: 251
Comments: 17
50 Shots by A.D Lelong DIGG THIS This past weekend 5 NYPD officers emptied 50 shots into a car with unarmed men inside. One officer, by himself, emptied 31 shots......that's two clips worth. We had the situation 7 years ago of Amadou Diallo killed with 41 rounds. Last year 10 L.A. cops fired 120 rounds into a car within 18 seconds. And now we have NY Mayor Mike Bloomberg who (as Sir William S Gilbert said in PINAFORE .."... can not tell at sight a Mauser rifle from a javelin") is "disturbed" by this latest mêlée, and doesn't see how 50 shots were needed. He said that the force was excessive. Once again our government has set up the components for an inevitable situation. And then when the totally foreseeable event occurs, they refuse to question the premise that brought it about in the first place, because that would crimp the government agenda. The agenda is to use cops as initiators of force under the excuse of "crime prevention." We have a thing in Anglo-Saxon law of being innocent until proved guilty. This in incompatible with the concept of "crime prevention." Crime prevention, which is politically popular under democratic mob-moron rule, requires law enforcement to go after criminals before they have committed a crime. Which means innocent people will always be the target of law enforcement. Going after the guilty means one has to wait until after there has been a crime. Politicians, always pandering to the unthinking masses, are always quick to tout "crime prevention" because it sounds like it protects people. The origin of cops goes back to the Middle Ages when a volunteer was elected to stay awake to guard against nocturnal invaders/criminals etc., and to sound an alarm to wake up the rest of the people. This has morphed into the professional constable, a peace officer such as the formerly unarmed Bobbies in London; but in recent years the cops have become totally militarised, presumably because the criminals have more guns etc. They have also become militarised because the government, again for reasons of political pandering, has launched various wars on ____________ (booze/drugs/harlotry/crime/terrorism – or any politically unpopular vice). This past year Mayor Bloomberg has been waging a war on guns, which is another excuse for militarisation. Cops have been turning into SS/Gestapo Officers. Unlike the old days, when cops broke up bar fights or kicked bums off park benches and patrolled around the neighbourhood visibly armed in crisp blue uniforms with shiny brass buttons, or directed traffic, or hung out with the corner druggist smoking and eating free donuts, cops are now infiltrating the citizenry as undercover agents with military weapons. Often they are agents provocateurs. In the recent Queens incident, the officers were "undercover" in a strip club, and then misunderstood a presumably boisterous situation, causing them to become involved in a conflict which ended up with the cops firing 50 rounds at a car killing one, wounding another, and putting 11 shots into another, who is now in hospital in critical condition. In the first place, the NYPD sends these guys into a sleazy strip club to look for trouble, which, in this case means guns and prostitution. They pretend they are not cops, which means acting like typical strip bar patrons – which means ordering alcohol (BTW there was no breath test after the incident) and acting like frat boys. Then when they find something that "appears" to be trouble, they jump in, and the episode reaches critical mass. Because they were undercover, they were not recognisable to other cops, or to patrons who thought the agents might be criminals. Indeed the victims in the Queens case freaked out when a cop pulled his weapon out on the street. The driver hit the gas grazing the cop which prompted the first shots. The cop said he identified himself, but the driver was too busy worrying about the gun. In the second place, cops all carry semi-automatic Glock or Beretta hand guns. When I was a kid, cops carried 6 shot revolvers, and 12 extra bullets in bullet loops on their belts. Anyone familiar with revolvers knows how cumbersome this can be to reload. Today they carry 5 or 10 extra magazines on their belts, each magazine carrying 15 or 16 rounds. The old double action revolvers had a fairly hard trigger pull, unlike the new autos. If you used them as single action, you had to cock the hammer back first. In both cases you had to think about each shot. A number of retired cops I have talked to said that was a factor in the Diallo case. NYPD Commissioner Ray Kelly said that cops are taught to fire three bursts, then examine the situation before firing again. In reality, a cop pumped up with fear, rage, and adrenalin won't do this. I also question whether they really are trained to do this. I saw a clip on the news from a cop training film. The objective was to train officers how to empty a clip onto a target as fast as possible whilst keeping his hand steady. It almost sounded like full auto. Then the officer changed his clip with lightning speed and popped off another clip. The objective is to fire a lot of rounds quickly into a small target pattern. So we have the PD recruiting bouncer types. They tell them that they are needed by society and that they are heroes. Then they drop them into a hyper macho culture fostered by a close-knit tradition and the cop unions. Then the PD and the unions tell them how dangerous their job is, and they might not see their family again. They say that they need to be over-gunned to be safe. The PD then gives them high-capacity firearms with easy trigger pulls. They tell them they are fighting a "war." They then tell them to go "in country" after telling them that the criminals may be armed, and to be careful. In other words they propagandise them with Marine Corps cant. Then Bloomie wonders how there are 50 shots. December 1, 2006
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#1. To: bluedogtxn, Horse, Jethro Tull, Burkeman1 (#0)
The times, they are a changin'.
"The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer." NY Mayor Mike Bloomberg is "disturbed"
Give 'til it hurts. Gun Owners of America
"Proffessional" police- attract a particular sort of person- thrill seekers, bullies, sadists, and power mongers. Long gone are the days when the police lived in the communities they patrolled. Add to this a political culture that sees everything as being a "war" that has to be "won"- and you have what we have now- a society with more cops per capita than any country on earth that go out and literally search for crimes to charge people with. How many arressts are the result of actual citizens' complaints in this country?
Maybe ID'd himself, but the guys were in a car, didn't hear him, maybe, and he was in civvies, given that, why would any sane man stop for a guy with a gun on the street in front of him. The normal reaction is what the driver had, try to run the gunman down.
They are taught to do this, and yes, training can go out the window when the excrement hits the fan. So far this shooting looks like a real stinker. What I’m finding interesting, and what could be helpful to anyone who finds themselves in a jam one day, is that the cops involved haven’t said a word about this to anyone, except their attorney(s). The PD is floating a story of a 4th perp who fled the scene with a gun, so don’t be surprised if some dude with a 9mm turns up at room temperature very soon. Of course he’ll be positively ID by the police involved…..and the beat goes on…..
The only thing I can guarantee you is that the cops will lie about what happened. They're conditioned.
the law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal bread.
There are a lot of variables possible. If the car stereo was on, and/or a lot of conversation; could anyone have heard anything from the cop? Did the lighting allow a decent look at any badge? A pointed gun is readily apparent, not so a badge - under any circumstances - unless the badge is held in front of the gun. Once the first shot is fired, what do any echoes project? Chaos isn't bound by more than miliseconds. The test for my money comes down to whether or not an attempt was made to disable the vehicle, versus just shooting up the passengers. There should be an automatic response to stop the vehicle, then set up a perimeter. What does it take to get a license plate? This isn't a case of a roberry gone deadly - requiring immediate force. Getting run down for being a stupid cop isn't a license to execute others. By all that's 'just,' the cops are toast. (Then, there's this thing called "political reality.") In any case, the NYPD just got one hand tied behind their back.
your POV is appreciated
"The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer." They'll lie, the attorneys will spin and the jury will find in favor (nine out of ten times) of the system. Until decent people stop avoiding jury duty, and instead become fully informed, nothing will change.
Belabors the simple point, why not stop them before they got in the car.
Why not just leave them the fuck alone? What was the probable cause in the first place? This was misconduct by the cops from jump.
the law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal bread.
Doesn't always work that way with the cops. Sure, the jury wants to support the "system". But the "system" is the prosecutor; it's also the cops. There's a conflict here. I wouldn't count on an acquittal. Take the Rodney King cops. Tried in state court and acquitted; tried again in federal court and convicted... Trials are always a crapshoot anyway. I can guarantee you that, as I've tried over fifty cases in front of juries.
the law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal bread.
I'm still not clear on why they wanted to arrest these guys? It seems like an un-provoked attack by cops.
Very good point!
Undercover cops were in a sleeze joint for reasons unknown. The UC cops wound up in front of the perps car, and claim to have been sligtly struck. They mentioned a gun, but none has been found.
Yes they are. Anyone who spends any decent amount of time in a courtroom with their eyes open can see this on display. It's an almost robot like testimony that comes out of their mouths. I saw this watching DUI cases. Each case I saw was a different scenario in a different part of the county taken care of by a different cop, yet their testimony as to the events that led them to pull over the suspect and then those leading up to the arrest were identical. "Suspect was observed crossing centerline. I detected the smell of alcohol in the vehicle. Suspect's eyes were... yada yada yada". Hell, I knew one of the cops was lying because I know that where one of the defendants was pulled over is just an old tarmac county road that doesn't even have a center line. The brain-dead defendant and his lawyer didn't catch it though. I wanted jump up and shout "bullshit". If I had it to do again, being older and more cynical(and not next in line for a bench trial) I would say something. And the judges just sit there and let this shit charade go on. But I don't need to tell you this. You've probably seen it a thousand times.
And the judges just sit there and let this shit charade go on. But I don't need to tell you this. You've probably seen it a thousand times. It would be fun to watch someone stand up and say bullshit when the cop starts lying, but usually there's nobody there. The criminal justice system is the human trash can of society, and its victims are the people society feels it can do without but doesn't have the stomach to euthanize. Nobody stands around to watch the garbage being taken out. Americans love watching people get found guilty, they love watching people get arrested, they love watching people go to jail and they love watching people get executed. Some mechanism I can't explain has bled our empathy dry when it comes to "accused" people. OTOH, we give more to private charities both cumulatively and per capita and volunteer more of our time than the people of any other nation on earth. I don't get it, but there it is.;
the law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal bread.
---Henry Kissinger, New York Times, October 28, 1973
#2. To: robin (#1)
#3. To: robin (#1)
#4. To: bluedogtxn (#0)
Indeed the victims in the Queens case freaked out when a cop pulled his weapon out on the street. The driver hit the gas grazing the cop which prompted the first shots. The cop said he identified himself, but the driver was too busy worrying about the gun.
#5. To: robin, randge, IndieTX, christine, lodwick, all (#1)
NYPD Commissioner Ray Kelly said that cops are taught to fire three bursts, then examine the situation before firing again. In reality, a cop pumped up with fear, rage, and adrenalin won't do this. I also question whether they really are trained to do this.
#6. To: swarthyguy, Jethro Tull (#4)
#7. To: bluedogtxn, Brian S, Christine, Honway, Robin, Aristeides, Diana, All (#0)
#8. To: Jethro Tull (#5)
---Henry Kissinger, New York Times, October 28, 1973
#9. To: bluedogtxn (#6)
#10. To: SKYDRIFTER (#7)
#11. To: swarthyguy (#10)
Belabors the simple point, why not stop them before they got in the car.
#12. To: Jethro Tull (#9)
They'll lie, the attorneys will spin and the jury will find in favor (nine out of ten times) of the system.
#13. To: Jethro Tull. everyone here (#5)
-Thomas Paine
#14. To: swarthyguy (#10)
Belabors the simple point, why not stop them before they got in the car.
#15. To: lodwick (#13)
(Edited)
#16. To: bluedogtxn (#6)
The only thing I can guarantee you is that the cops will lie about what happened. They're conditioned.
#17. To: SmokinOPs (#16)
I wanted jump up and shout "bullshit". If I had it to do again, being older and more cynical(and not next in line for a bench trial) I would say something.
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