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Title: Rabbi appalled by airport's removal of Christmas trees
Source:
www.king5.com
URL Source: http://www.king5.com/localnews/stor ... ABairporttreesSW.1663eccf.html
Published: Dec 10, 2006
Author: www.king5.com
Post Date: 2006-12-10 22:04:55 by robin
Keywords: None
Views: 2321
Comments: 138
Rabbi appalled by airport's removal of Christmas trees KING Rabbi Elazar Bogomilsky SEATAC, Wash. - All nine Christmas trees have been removed from the Seattle-Tacoma International Airport instead of adding a giant Jewish menorah to the holiday display as a rabbi had requested. Rabbi Elazar Bogomilsky, who made his request weeks ago, said he was appalled by the decision. "Everyone should have their spirit of the holiday. For many people the trees are the spirit of the holidays, and adding a menorah adds light to the season," said Bogomilsky, who works at Chabad Lubavitch, a Jewish education foundation headquartered in Seattle's University District. After consulting with lawyers, port staff believed that adding the menorah would have required adding symbols for other religions and cultures in the Northwest. The holidays are the busiest season at the airport, Betancourt said, and staff didn't have time to play cultural anthropologists. Maintenance workers boxed up the trees during the graveyard shift early Saturday, when airport bosses believed few people would notice. "We decided to take the trees down because we didn't want to be exclusive," said airport spokeswoman Terri-Ann Betancourt. "We're trying to be thoughtful and respectful, and will review policies after the first of the year." Bogomilsky had hired a lawyer and threatened to sue if the Port of Seattle didn't add the menorah next to the trees, which had been festooned with red ribbons and bows. Hanukkah begins this Friday at sundown. "They've darkened the hall instead of turning the lights up," said Bogomilsky's lawyer, Harvey Grad. "There is a concern here that the Jewish community will be portrayed as the Grinch." 03:53 PM PST on Sunday, December 10, 2006
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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 78.
#35. To: Robin, Brian S, Christine, Honway, Aristeides, Diana, All (#0)
Christmas celebrates the birth of the "King of the Jews." What's this guy's problem? Doesn't anyone read scripture? (I know, I know, that's not popular to say.)
Well, yes, of course SOME of us read scripture. And I must assume, that by your comment that you are one of the people that do??? If you do read scripture, I should truly HOPE that YOU DO NOT observe Christmas, and DEFINATELY would not allow a Christmas tree in your home. And with your knowledge of scripture, I am sure that you have run across this little tidbit a time or two, and would take it to heart, but here is a refresher in case you did not realize its true implications, or its relevance to this PAGAN "Holi-day" But Christmas and Easter, the two "holiest" of Christian "Holi-days" are not days that the Bible instructs us to observe. Easter is mention ONCE in the entire 1189 Chapters of the Bible, and when researched out, it is found that the original word that it was translated from means passover. But on the other hand, Jews also celebrate Hanukkah, and that is not in the Bible either (along with other holidays). Now if anyone is curious as to why we celebrate Christmas on December 25, all they have to do is to take a good look at Mithraism. There were many likenesses between Mithraism and Christianity, in fact they had more in common than they had different. The biggest single difference in the two religions was that Mithraism did not allow women to participate. But Mithra was born on December 25, in a cave, of a virgin, and was a god that was a part of a holy trinity and so on and so forth. here is an excellent link if you would like to know more on that one.
The history goes to Constantinople and the Solviticans. The converts to Christianity wouldn't give up their Solstice celebration, so the birthday celebration got moved to Dec. 25th.
Correct, here is another great link that I just found on another thread that is going on the 4um right now. http://www.fossilizedcustoms.com/Constantine.htm My point was that the basis for Christmas comes from many places, NOT ONE of them being the Bible.
I don't mind talking about the potential intermixing of old 'pagan' (which just means village folk) traditions with Christmas traditions in the West (Christmas is celebrated differently by eastern Christians) but please don't take biblical passages out of context. Jeremiah 10:3-5 deals not with idolatrous rites that resembles the use of a Christmas tree but of shaping out of wood idols of gods that are then plated with gold or silver foil. 3 for the customs of the peoples are worthless. Someone cuts down a tree from the forest; [it is] worked by the hands of a craftsman with a chisel. 4 He decorates it with silver and gold. It is fastened with hammer and nails, so it won't totter. 5 Like scarecrows in a cucumber patch, their idols cannot speak. They must be carried because they cannot walk. Do not fear them for they can do no harm — and they cannot do any good.
For starters, I must question why, when replying to my comment, was I not included in the reply. I must presume that you had accurately guessed that I may not have liked what you had to say. 3 for the customs of the peoples are worthless. Someone cuts down a tree from the forest; [it is] worked by the hands of a craftsman with a chisel. 4 He decorates it with silver and gold. It is fastened with hammer and nails, so it won't totter. 5 Like scarecrows in a cucumber patch, their idols cannot speak. They must be carried because they cannot walk. Do not fear them for they can do no harm — and they cannot do any good. This "version" of my Biblical quote is taken out of the Holman Christian Standard Bible, and I am sorry, I am not wanting to hear the will of God through ANY translation by any religious sect, and definitely NOT from the Christians (being a religion that most of us who like to research religion can agree celebrate PAGAN or non-Biblical holidays such as easter and christmas). Also when you Google this translation of the Bible, the very first link that comes up defines the HCSB as... Now this is more along the lines of Constantine blending religions for the sake of harmony with a modern twist (fabricated by Hagge, Falwell, Dobson, and the rest of those snakes kind of twist????? Aimed at a one world religion for a New World Order???) I mean hell, if no one has a Bible that any where near resembles the original text that it was SUPPOSEDLY translated from (kind of like a movie {LOOSELY} based on a true story, but people who lived the true story have to search hard for the similarities) isn't that a GREAT way to prevent people from learning the truth??? How many English speaking people would ever care to put forth the EFFORT to cross reference back to the original Hebrew??? Noone222, innieway and I are definitely among the minority there!!! I am very grateful of innieway taking the time to exhaustively respond for me, and save me some time. I guarantee that anyone who truly takes the time to research the ORIGINAL text, will not find scarecrow, or cucumber patch anywhere in the Bible. Also it is very convenient that where there is a passage telling us NOT to cut and adorn a tree of the forest (isn't that how we get christmas trees, cut them from the forest and adorn them???) that suddenly in a now multi-denominational Bible, this object is likened more to a scarecrow?? Well of course, who would want us to think that maybe God did now want us to observe this act on a so called Holy Day (Holi-day). That would be bad for business, think of all of the commercialism and commerce generated around this ceremony??? Maybe I am a little hard core on the subject or just a stick-in-the-mud, but I tend to look at the Bible as a Law Book more than a religious tool. Of course pulpit-parrots like all these translations that they can twist and pervert even further for whatever their purpose may be (I have yet to figure that one out). I simply wish to continue to ATTEMPT to live my life as best as I can,(I am FAR from perfect, in my eyes or in God's) as close to the way God intended as I can. That means that I will not participate in any of the "traditions of village people" as you put it, or pagan/heathen festivals of worship to false gods, as I like to look at it. Sure, the christmas season is then just another day, but hell, so is sunday!!!
That is a cross western heretics - both Latin and Protestant - have to bear. Though the Christmas tree decorating has spread to all over the world - even non-Christian Shinto Japanese like to keep Christmas trees - it is not a tradition found much in eastern Christianity. I am not here to defend what westerners have done to the Christian religion since I am not one of them.
December 25th occurs about the time of the Winter Solistice, the shortest day of the year. The shortening days were taken as a sign that the Sun was getting weaker. After the Solistice, the days begin to get longer ...... and pagan peoples thought that was an indication that the Sun was getting stronger. Thus, the Winter Solistice became the "birthday" of several gods: Attis, Frey, Thor, Dionysus, Osiris, Adonis, Mithra, Tammuz, Cernunnos and so forth. It is a "solar holiday," marking the time that the sun becomes apparently stronger day by day. This is a quote from Richard 9151 on another thread. If you look at each of the PAGAN gods that celebrate their birthday on the date that many christians "chose" to celebrate the birth of the King of Jews, it is clear that many of these religions have merged amongst themselves and also merged into christianity. With the winter solstice being of such importance and celebrated worldwide by means of many Pagan religions only gives credence to both my point and yours. Christmas has been celebrated by many names, originally had NOTHING to do with Christ, was originally a Pagan holiday that happened to spread far and wide. Eastern Christianity is among the oldest of christian traditions, and DOES NOT choose to celebrate with the Pagan idol of a "christmas" tree.
It's possible. The term you are looking for is syncratism and the same can be said for the Hebrew religion which can be shown to have borrowed concepts from native paganisim, Zorastrianism, Sumerian origin myths, and Pharaoh Akhenaten's cult of the monotheistic sun god, Aten.
Agreed!!! I am glad that we can see eye to eye on something. My original point was that (in my opinion) God asked his people not to participate, so I do not.
My point is its none of anyones business either way. Now the question is what shall we do for public places? Like I wrote before - hard for me to care much when in America Christmas has a history of being outlawed, ignored or celebrated. So I can't get too worked up over any of this 'war on Christmas' BS because next year the American religious nuts may decide Christmas is bad for Christianity as was the case around 10 years ago when they did not want Christmas secular symbols. Now Christian religious activists want secular Christmas symbols.
Out of curiosity, I would truly LIKE to know what your point is. You seem to thoroughly enjoy the debate, and share many opinions without even pointing in the general direction of a point. Or do you take pleasure in the pointless, simple sake of arguing.
Like I wrote at #18. Though I celebrate/observe Christmas I don't get too excited about this new found American dilemma about Christmas observances because I know Christmas was once banned by some of the pre Revolution colonies and it was not observed by the Federal govt until 1870. Another reason I don't pay any attention to this war on Christmas is because Protestants in America tend to be irrational nuts. Protestants go from having problems with Christmas observances (calling them Papist and pagan at times) to now demanding that Christmas get its proper due. Just 10+ years ago or so I remember Protestants were waging a campaign against secular Christmas - wanting to put Jesus back into Christmas and to remove Christmas trees and Santa Clause and other secular trappings. Now the activists want all that and claim secularists are removing said symbols. That is my point.
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#48. To: SKYDRIFTER, Destro, karelian, swarthyguy, alpowolf (#35)
(Edited)
Christmas celebrates the birth of the "King of the Jews." What's this guy's problem? Doesn't anyone read scripture?
Jer 10:1 Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:
No where that I have found in the Bible tells us to celebrate any birthday, and I have never found mention of this "Christ's Mass" or that it was to be observed as Holy. Now there are several other occasions that ARE mentioned in scripture that ARE to be observed as such, but of course, you never hear anyone mention the Feast of Trumpets, Feast of Weeks, Feast of the Tabernacle, and so on. Jew's are the only ones commonly KNOWN to observe passover (any one other than a Jew that would celebrate Passover is just weird, right??)
Jer 10:2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
Jer 10:3 For the customs of the people [are] vain: for [one] cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
Jer 10:4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
#49. To: ladybug (#48)
#50. To: SKYDRIFTER (#49)
The history goes to Constantinople and the Solviticans. The converts to Christianity wouldn't give up their Solstice celebration, so the birthday celebration got moved to Dec. 25th.
#51. To: SKYDRIFTER, karelian, swarthyguy, alpowolf (#50)
(Edited)
#54. To: Destro (#51)
To: SKYDRIFTER, karelian, swarthyguy, alpowolf
Jeremiah 10:3-5
New translation utilizing global, modern English and produced by multi-denominational, evangelical translators.
#57. To: ladybug, SKYDRIFTER, karelian, swarthyguy, alpowolf (#54)
Also it is very convenient that where there is a passage telling us NOT to cut and adorn a tree of the forest (isn't that how we get christmas trees, cut them from the forest and adorn them???) that suddenly in a now multi-denominational Bible, this object is likened more to a scarecrow??
#59. To: Destro (#57)
Though the Christmas tree decorating has spread to all over the world - even non-Christian Shinto Japanese like to keep Christmas trees - it is not a tradition found much in eastern Christianity.
#61. To: ladybug (#59)
it is clear that many of these religions have merged amongst themselves and also merged into christianity.
#63. To: Destro (#61)
the same can be said for the Hebrew religion which can be shown to have borrowed concepts from native paganisim, Zorastrianism, Sumerian origin myths, and Pharaoh Akhenaten's cult of the monotheistic sun god, Aten.
#65. To: ladybug (#63)
My original point was that (in my opinion) God asked his people not to participate, so I do not.
#73. To: Destro (#65)
My point is its none of anyones business either way.
#78. To: ladybug (#73)
(Edited)
Out of curiosity, I would truly LIKE to know what your point is.
Replies to Comment # 78.