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Title: Rabbi appalled by airport's removal of Christmas trees
Source:
www.king5.com
URL Source: http://www.king5.com/localnews/stor ... ABairporttreesSW.1663eccf.html
Published: Dec 10, 2006
Author: www.king5.com
Post Date: 2006-12-10 22:04:55 by robin
Keywords: None
Views: 2544
Comments: 138
Rabbi appalled by airport's removal of Christmas trees KING Rabbi Elazar Bogomilsky SEATAC, Wash. - All nine Christmas trees have been removed from the Seattle-Tacoma International Airport instead of adding a giant Jewish menorah to the holiday display as a rabbi had requested. Rabbi Elazar Bogomilsky, who made his request weeks ago, said he was appalled by the decision. "Everyone should have their spirit of the holiday. For many people the trees are the spirit of the holidays, and adding a menorah adds light to the season," said Bogomilsky, who works at Chabad Lubavitch, a Jewish education foundation headquartered in Seattle's University District. After consulting with lawyers, port staff believed that adding the menorah would have required adding symbols for other religions and cultures in the Northwest. The holidays are the busiest season at the airport, Betancourt said, and staff didn't have time to play cultural anthropologists. Maintenance workers boxed up the trees during the graveyard shift early Saturday, when airport bosses believed few people would notice. "We decided to take the trees down because we didn't want to be exclusive," said airport spokeswoman Terri-Ann Betancourt. "We're trying to be thoughtful and respectful, and will review policies after the first of the year." Bogomilsky had hired a lawyer and threatened to sue if the Port of Seattle didn't add the menorah next to the trees, which had been festooned with red ribbons and bows. Hanukkah begins this Friday at sundown. "They've darkened the hall instead of turning the lights up," said Bogomilsky's lawyer, Harvey Grad. "There is a concern here that the Jewish community will be portrayed as the Grinch." 03:53 PM PST on Sunday, December 10, 2006
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#20. To: robin (#19)
An Outlaw Christmas In the early 17th century, a wave of religious reform changed the way Christmas was celebrated in Europe. When Oliver Cromwell and his Puritan forces took over England in 1645, they vowed to rid England of decadence and, as part of their effort, cancelled Christmas. By popular demand, Charles II was restored to the throne and, with him, came the return of the popular holiday. The pilgrims, English separatists that came to America in 1620, were even more orthodox in their Puritan beliefs than Cromwell. As a result, Christmas was not a holiday in early America. From 1659 to 1681, the celebration of Christmas was actually outlawed in Boston. Anyone exhibiting the Christmas spirit was fined five shillings. By contrast, in the Jamestown settlement, Captain John Smith reported that Christmas was enjoyed by all and passed without incident. After the American Revolution, English customs fell out of favor, including Christmas. In fact, Congress was in session on December 25, 1789, the first Christmas under America's new constitution. Christmas wasn't declared a federal holiday until June 26, 1870.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Oh for pity's sake. You're picking out something that Oliver Cromwell initiated as something to embrace!?! The Pilgrims (also gracing my family tree) were absolutely nutty about a few things. The Salem witch trials being among them. Now this Christmas nonsense. And that's not all, they were really strange about sex in general, wearing undergarments at all time. Do you suppose they knew what Gary Condit learned only centuries later? If that's all you've got, that's worse than nothing.
"The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer." "Who, me?" Nobody's buying that anymore Rebbe.
You can never tire of counting conflict diamonds.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
You think because it was not declared a federal holiday until 1870 that the birth of Christ was not celebrated until then? BTW, the shepherds on the hills indicates that Christ was born during the summer months (that's according to my 3rd grade Baptist Sunday School teacher).
"The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer." un-pc bump Don't forget Three Kings Day.
You can never tire of counting conflict diamonds.
It was not a holiday until 1870 - the fact Congress did business on Christmas is proof that Christmas was not observed by the founding fathers in a manner you would find acceptable in this 'war on Christmas' hysteria mindset I imagine.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
It wasn't until the 19th century that Americans began to embrace Christmas. Americans re-invented Christmas, and changed it from a raucous carnival holiday into a family-centered day of peace and nostalgia. But what about the 1800s peaked American interest in the holiday? The early 19th century was a period of class conflict and turmoil. During this time, unemployment was high and gang rioting by the disenchanted classes often occurred during the Christmas season. In 1828, the New York city council instituted the city's first police force in response to a Christmas riot. This catalyzed certain members of the upper classes to begin to change the way Christmas was celebrated in America. In 1819, best-selling author Washington Irving wrote The Sketchbook of Geoffrey Crayon, gent., a series of stories about the celebration of Christmas in an English manor house. The sketches feature a squire who invited the peasants into his home for the holiday. In contrast to the problems faced in American society, the two groups mingled effortlessly. In Irving's mind, Christmas should be a peaceful, warm-hearted holiday bringing groups together across lines of wealth or social status. Irving's fictitious celebrants enjoyed "ancient customs," including the crowning of a Lord of Misrule. Irving's book, however, was not based on any holiday celebration he had attended - in fact, many historians say that Irving's account actually "invented" tradition by implying that it described the true customs of the season. Also around this time, English author Charles Dickens created the classic holiday tale, A Christmas Carol. The story's message-the importance of charity and good will towards all humankind-struck a powerful chord in the United States and England and showed members of Victorian society the benefits of celebrating the holiday. The family was also becoming less disciplined and more sensitive to the emotional needs of children during the early 1800s. Christmas provided families with a day when they could lavish attention-and gifts-on their children without appearing to "spoil" them. As Americans began to embrace Christmas as a perfect family holiday, old customs were unearthed. People looked toward recent immigrants and Catholic and Episcopalian churches to see how the day should be celebrated. In the next 100 years, Americans built a Christmas tradition all their own that included pieces of many other customs, including decorating trees, sending holiday cards, and gift-giving. Although most families quickly bought into the idea that they were celebrating Christmas how it had been done for centuries, Americans had really re-invented a holiday to fill the cultural needs of a growing nation.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Why not?? We do not meed a "more perfect union" but one which respects, first of all, our natural rights. Washington tolerates as customary rule of the many by criminal factions run by and for a few. It may soon find that that it has alienated people of various States to the extent that they may demand freedom from its grip as these factions are proving to be imcompetent and unable to govern a nation. DC may one day wake up to general resistance because in many way it has already seceeded from us.
Give 'til it hurts. Gun Owners of America
The Protestant long removed from the original church tradition kind of forgot why things were done when they were done by the early church and why. Christmas is not a 'birthday' - ancient peoples had no clue what day they were born - Christmas was a day set aside to celebrate Christ's birth - it had no connection with his birth - i.e. he was not born on that day and that was not why the early church selected that day. Many theories exist as to why Dec 25 was picked. It was an available holiday they could pick to avoid and to convert pagan celebrations is one theory I hold to. Christmas is in the language of the old church tradition a feast day.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
It was not declared a federal holday until 1870, that does not mean Christians did not celebrate Christmas before that.
"The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer." Christ's Mass. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas The prominence of Christmas Day increased gradually after Charlemagne was crowned on Christmas Day in 800. King William I of England was crowned on Christmas Day 1066.
"The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer." I think it's a great idea.
"The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer." Excuse me - get back on track. The whole point of this conversation is the public celebration/observance of the holiday is in not?
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Iceland?
Christmas celebrates the birth of the "King of the Jews." What's this guy's problem? Doesn't anyone read scripture? (I know, I know, that's not popular to say.)
People are the public. Federally declared holidays follow the public observance. Get real. Read the history at the Wiki link. Americans before they were Americans celebrated Christmas. The original Grinch, Oliver Cromwell hated everything and everybody and of course Christmas. Maybe you like Cromwell, but no one else does.
"The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer." Iceland's good.
"The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer." Then in America it was not publicly observed until 1870.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
No, it's already its own nation, and it's close enough to the UK and US and strategic enough that there'd be a big armada there pounding the crap out of the folks declaring independance straight away. The place needs to seem to be a worthless pesthole, at least until the enterprising freedom lovers get enough numbers and prosperity going to be able to form a credible defense...
"pound pastrami, can kraut, six bagels – bring home for Emma"
Then in America it was not publicly observed until 1870. No, the public observance preceded the federal declaration by several centuries.
"The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer." What you need is some bad PR for a great place. Or, we could find a way to give a great place a really bad reputation.
"The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer." When the Roman Catholic Church rose upon the detritus of the Roman Empire, the Winter Equinox was a major celebration in Rome. Trees, perhaps pines, were festooned and garlanded, and people visited each others homes exchanging gifts and felicitations. Being Roman, they then proceeded to party with a vengeance. The old habits were hard to stamp out, and the Catholic Church, being pragmatic and unable to stamp out the old Saturnalia, simply proceeded to adopt it as its own, since the people were already celebrating the day and showed no signs of stopping.
Forgive me but I just don't see why I should care one way or the other. The only Christmas tree I care about is the one in my own house. Others can put them up or not as they wish. The same goes for menorahs.
Taht may be true in the West - may not be. The Christmas tree for example is not found in Eastern Christian forms of celebration until the 20th century. I know of no Italian tradition of Christmas trees - but I may be wrong.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Tree worship was a part and parcel of the preChristians of Europe. One theory I read was that the influence of the Hanoverian Dynasty upon England caused the importation of the practice, long adhered to in Germany. The old Royal Navy song, Hearts of Oak, was a residue of the worship of the towering oaks of England, some having grown so long they were over 250 feet tall.
CAIR names Lubavitch Rabbi Man of the Year!
I know of no such practice in the Roman world. Use of branches? Leaves? Sacred groves/trees? Sure but tree worship? I don't think I know of an example.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Well, yes, of course SOME of us read scripture. And I must assume, that by your comment that you are one of the people that do??? If you do read scripture, I should truly HOPE that YOU DO NOT observe Christmas, and DEFINATELY would not allow a Christmas tree in your home. And with your knowledge of scripture, I am sure that you have run across this little tidbit a time or two, and would take it to heart, but here is a refresher in case you did not realize its true implications, or its relevance to this PAGAN "Holi-day" But Christmas and Easter, the two "holiest" of Christian "Holi-days" are not days that the Bible instructs us to observe. Easter is mention ONCE in the entire 1189 Chapters of the Bible, and when researched out, it is found that the original word that it was translated from means passover. But on the other hand, Jews also celebrate Hanukkah, and that is not in the Bible either (along with other holidays). Now if anyone is curious as to why we celebrate Christmas on December 25, all they have to do is to take a good look at Mithraism. There were many likenesses between Mithraism and Christianity, in fact they had more in common than they had different. The biggest single difference in the two religions was that Mithraism did not allow women to participate. But Mithra was born on December 25, in a cave, of a virgin, and was a god that was a part of a holy trinity and so on and so forth. here is an excellent link if you would like to know more on that one. "Don't Steal, the government hates competition."
The history goes to Constantinople and the Solviticans. The converts to Christianity wouldn't give up their Solstice celebration, so the birthday celebration got moved to Dec. 25th.
Correct, here is another great link that I just found on another thread that is going on the 4um right now. http://www.fossilizedcustoms.com/Constantine.htm My point was that the basis for Christmas comes from many places, NOT ONE of them being the Bible.
"Don't Steal, the government hates competition."
I don't mind talking about the potential intermixing of old 'pagan' (which just means village folk) traditions with Christmas traditions in the West (Christmas is celebrated differently by eastern Christians) but please don't take biblical passages out of context. Jeremiah 10:3-5 deals not with idolatrous rites that resembles the use of a Christmas tree but of shaping out of wood idols of gods that are then plated with gold or silver foil. 3 for the customs of the peoples are worthless. Someone cuts down a tree from the forest; [it is] worked by the hands of a craftsman with a chisel. 4 He decorates it with silver and gold. It is fastened with hammer and nails, so it won't totter. 5 Like scarecrows in a cucumber patch, their idols cannot speak. They must be carried because they cannot walk. Do not fear them for they can do no harm — and they cannot do any good.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
This is a very bad thing. The trees were dead and should have been keep as long as they were there. Removing them causes rancor. We had a Christmas tree removal from Eugene, Oregon firehouses, and everyone had Christmas trees in their pick-up trees complete with lights. If protesters start driving through the airport with Christmas trees in trucks they will make authorities and the media hysterical. I guarantee it. Imagine http://YouTube.com pieces showing that protest. Lit trees in trucks conveys the message and is photogenic. It is a good opportunity to make big painful stink.
I don't know what dictionary you use, but according to Webster's pagan is defined as: Main Entry: pa·gan In case you might need a little help with polytheistic, here is Webster's definition: Main Entry: poly·the·ism OUT OF CONTEXT?????? Well now, if you'll look at the KING JAMES VERSION (there are already plenty of mistranslations in there - and ALL later versions are subject to even MORE MISTRANSLATIONS) you'll find that the "chisel" referred to in the Holman Christian Standard Bible in the KJV is an axe. The word axe is taken from the original manuscript Hebrew word maaseh, which is translated as AXE, NOT CHISEL... Now lets look at verse 5 in the KJV... Jer 10:5 They [are] upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also [is it] in them to do good. Lets break this down to the original Hebrew... Upright is the Hebrew miqshah which means finely decorated cultic objects. (I would say christmas trees are finely decorated cultic objects) Palm tree is from the Hebrew tomer which means palm tree. Speak is from the Hebrew dabar meaning to speak. They must needs be borne is from the Hebrew nasa meaning to lift or carry. I could go on, but apparently NOWHERE in the ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPTS from which the translations came is there any mention of a scarecrow or a cucumber patch!!!! And speaking of context, go back to Jer 10:2 (KJV), and the first sentence reads: Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen.... Now go back and reread the definition of PAGAN... Pagan and heathen are interchangeable. Worshipers of multiple gods... I would suggest that a person seeking TRUTH be very careful of what they read. Like I said, the KJV is the first (that I know of) translation of the original manuscripts into English, and there are definitely some mistranslations in there. Every subsequent translation is open to even MORE mistranslation/misguidance.. Think about it - is it not the intent of Satan to deceive as many as possible???? And what is one of his strongest "tools" available for deceit??? RELIGION - he knows Scripture better than any of us, and if he can twist it he will...
No matter how noble the objectives of a government; if it blurs decency and kindness, cheapens human life, and breeds ill will and suspicion - it is an EVIL government. Eric Hoffer
For starters, I must question why, when replying to my comment, was I not included in the reply. I must presume that you had accurately guessed that I may not have liked what you had to say. 3 for the customs of the peoples are worthless. Someone cuts down a tree from the forest; [it is] worked by the hands of a craftsman with a chisel. 4 He decorates it with silver and gold. It is fastened with hammer and nails, so it won't totter. 5 Like scarecrows in a cucumber patch, their idols cannot speak. They must be carried because they cannot walk. Do not fear them for they can do no harm — and they cannot do any good. This "version" of my Biblical quote is taken out of the Holman Christian Standard Bible, and I am sorry, I am not wanting to hear the will of God through ANY translation by any religious sect, and definitely NOT from the Christians (being a religion that most of us who like to research religion can agree celebrate PAGAN or non-Biblical holidays such as easter and christmas). Also when you Google this translation of the Bible, the very first link that comes up defines the HCSB as... Now this is more along the lines of Constantine blending religions for the sake of harmony with a modern twist (fabricated by Hagge, Falwell, Dobson, and the rest of those snakes kind of twist????? Aimed at a one world religion for a New World Order???) I mean hell, if no one has a Bible that any where near resembles the original text that it was SUPPOSEDLY translated from (kind of like a movie {LOOSELY} based on a true story, but people who lived the true story have to search hard for the similarities) isn't that a GREAT way to prevent people from learning the truth??? How many English speaking people would ever care to put forth the EFFORT to cross reference back to the original Hebrew??? Noone222, innieway and I are definitely among the minority there!!! I am very grateful of innieway taking the time to exhaustively respond for me, and save me some time. I guarantee that anyone who truly takes the time to research the ORIGINAL text, will not find scarecrow, or cucumber patch anywhere in the Bible. Also it is very convenient that where there is a passage telling us NOT to cut and adorn a tree of the forest (isn't that how we get christmas trees, cut them from the forest and adorn them???) that suddenly in a now multi-denominational Bible, this object is likened more to a scarecrow?? Well of course, who would want us to think that maybe God did now want us to observe this act on a so called Holy Day (Holi-day). That would be bad for business, think of all of the commercialism and commerce generated around this ceremony??? Maybe I am a little hard core on the subject or just a stick-in-the-mud, but I tend to look at the Bible as a Law Book more than a religious tool. Of course pulpit-parrots like all these translations that they can twist and pervert even further for whatever their purpose may be (I have yet to figure that one out). I simply wish to continue to ATTEMPT to live my life as best as I can,(I am FAR from perfect, in my eyes or in God's) as close to the way God intended as I can. That means that I will not participate in any of the "traditions of village people" as you put it, or pagan/heathen festivals of worship to false gods, as I like to look at it. Sure, the christmas season is then just another day, but hell, so is sunday!!!
"Don't Steal, the government hates competition."
The above version is based on the Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB). In any case it is about using idols made of wood covered in gold and silver foil representing Gods - not a form of proto-Christmas tree. As for what pagan means - that is what the word has morphed into in English but the original meaning of pagan (still a sur name for Italians and Spanish people) is rural folk - villagers. It is derived from the Latin pagus, whence pagani (i. e. those who live in the country), a name given to the country folk who remained heathen after the cities had become Christian. The eastern Greek Orthodox church preferred the more accurate term 'idolators'.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
I thought I did - my bad - for it was your type of Protestant nuttery I wanted to answer.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
That is a cross western heretics - both Latin and Protestant - have to bear. Though the Christmas tree decorating has spread to all over the world - even non-Christian Shinto Japanese like to keep Christmas trees - it is not a tradition found much in eastern Christianity. I am not here to defend what westerners have done to the Christian religion since I am not one of them.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
We are all human, I can understand mistakes. Please take care when associating me to any sort of "religion" for I do not associate my self with any group who tries to "impose" their "interpretation" of scripture on others. Myself I simply read the words, and take them as they are written. I am not one to think that the Bible is written in a confusing fashion, It was simply originated in other languages, then translated into English at a time where the language was presented in a different fashion. If I do not understand a passage, I simply look up the original text, and then reread the passage until I can understand what it is saying. But this happens very rarely. Many times I like to look up the original text simply to appreciate the work and detail that it took to translate a book of such magnitude. As for "protestant nuttery", I believe that that is what the Holman Christian Standard Bible (New translation utilizing global, modern English and produced by multi-denominational, evangelical translators)that you like to quote scripture from, is spewing.
"Don't Steal, the government hates competition."
December 25th occurs about the time of the Winter Solistice, the shortest day of the year. The shortening days were taken as a sign that the Sun was getting weaker. After the Solistice, the days begin to get longer ...... and pagan peoples thought that was an indication that the Sun was getting stronger. Thus, the Winter Solistice became the "birthday" of several gods: Attis, Frey, Thor, Dionysus, Osiris, Adonis, Mithra, Tammuz, Cernunnos and so forth. It is a "solar holiday," marking the time that the sun becomes apparently stronger day by day. This is a quote from Richard 9151 on another thread. If you look at each of the PAGAN gods that celebrate their birthday on the date that many christians "chose" to celebrate the birth of the King of Jews, it is clear that many of these religions have merged amongst themselves and also merged into christianity. With the winter solstice being of such importance and celebrated worldwide by means of many Pagan religions only gives credence to both my point and yours. Christmas has been celebrated by many names, originally had NOTHING to do with Christ, was originally a Pagan holiday that happened to spread far and wide. Eastern Christianity is among the oldest of christian traditions, and DOES NOT choose to celebrate with the Pagan idol of a "christmas" tree.
"Don't Steal, the government hates competition."
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#21. To: Destro (#20)
---Henry Kissinger, New York Times, October 28, 1973
#22. To: robin (#0)
"They've darkened the hall instead of turning the lights up," said Bogomilsky's lawyer, Harvey Grad. "There is a concern here that the Jewish community will be portrayed as the Grinch."
#23. To: robin (#21)
After the American Revolution, English customs fell out of favor, including Christmas. In fact, Congress was in session on December 25, 1789, the first Christmas under America's new constitution. Christmas wasn't declared a federal holiday until June 26, 1870.
#24. To: Destro (#23)
---Henry Kissinger, New York Times, October 28, 1973
#25. To: lodwick (#12)
Please fast-forward me to 2 Jan 07...
#26. To: robin (#24)
You think because it was not declared a federal holiday until 1870 that the birth of Christ was not celebrated until then?
#27. To: robin (#21)
You think because it was not declared a federal holiday until 1870 that the birth of Christ was not celebrated until then?
#28. To: robin (#17)
(Edited)
#29. To: robin (#24)
BTW, the shepherds on the hills indicates that Christ was born during the summer months (that's according to my 3rd grade Baptist Sunday School teacher).
#30. To: Destro (#26)
---Henry Kissinger, New York Times, October 28, 1973
#31. To: Destro (#29)
---Henry Kissinger, New York Times, October 28, 1973
#32. To: randge (#28)
---Henry Kissinger, New York Times, October 28, 1973
#33. To: robin (#30)
It was not declared a federal holday until 1870, that does not mean Christians did not celebrate Christmas before that.
#34. To: Axenolith (#13)
Ideally, the location of a colony would be away from the established research bases, with land exposure (as opposed to strictly ice), good geothermal gradient, etc...
Remember...G-d saved more animals than people on the ark. www.siameserescue.org
#35. To: Robin, Brian S, Christine, Honway, Aristeides, Diana, All (#0)
#36. To: Destro (#33)
---Henry Kissinger, New York Times, October 28, 1973
#37. To: who knows what evil, Axenolith, Diana, randge (#34)
---Henry Kissinger, New York Times, October 28, 1973
#38. To: robin (#36)
Federally declared holidays follow the public observance.
#39. To: who knows what evil (#34)
#40. To: Destro (#38)
Federally declared holidays follow the public observance.
---Henry Kissinger, New York Times, October 28, 1973
#41. To: Axenolith, randge (#39)
---Henry Kissinger, New York Times, October 28, 1973
#42. To: Destro (#29)
(Edited)
Many theories exist as to why Dec 25 was picked
#43. To: robin (#0)
#44. To: swarthyguy (#42)
#45. To: Destro (#44)
#46. To: Destro (#44)
#47. To: swarthyguy (#45)
Tree worship was a part and parcel of the preChristians of Europe.
#48. To: SKYDRIFTER, Destro, karelian, swarthyguy, alpowolf (#35)
(Edited)
Christmas celebrates the birth of the "King of the Jews." What's this guy's problem? Doesn't anyone read scripture?
Jer 10:1 Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:
No where that I have found in the Bible tells us to celebrate any birthday, and I have never found mention of this "Christ's Mass" or that it was to be observed as Holy. Now there are several other occasions that ARE mentioned in scripture that ARE to be observed as such, but of course, you never hear anyone mention the Feast of Trumpets, Feast of Weeks, Feast of the Tabernacle, and so on. Jew's are the only ones commonly KNOWN to observe passover (any one other than a Jew that would celebrate Passover is just weird, right??)
Jer 10:2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
Jer 10:3 For the customs of the people [are] vain: for [one] cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
Jer 10:4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
#49. To: ladybug (#48)
#50. To: SKYDRIFTER (#49)
The history goes to Constantinople and the Solviticans. The converts to Christianity wouldn't give up their Solstice celebration, so the birthday celebration got moved to Dec. 25th.
#51. To: SKYDRIFTER, karelian, swarthyguy, alpowolf (#50)
(Edited)
#52. To: lodwick, IndieTX, christine (#12)
#53. To: Destro (#51)
I don't mind talking about the potential intermixing of old 'pagan' (which just means village folk) traditions
Pronunciation: 'pA-g&n
Function: noun
1 : HEATHEN 1; especially : a follower of a polytheistic religion (as in ancient Rome)
2 : one who has little or no religion and who delights in sensual pleasures and material goods : an irreligious or hedonistic person
Pronunciation: 'pä-lE-(")thE-"i-z&m
Function: noun
belief in or worship of more than one god but please don't take biblical passages out of context.
#54. To: Destro (#51)
To: SKYDRIFTER, karelian, swarthyguy, alpowolf
Jeremiah 10:3-5
New translation utilizing global, modern English and produced by multi-denominational, evangelical translators.
#55. To: innieway (#53)
#56. To: ladybug, SKYDRIFTER, karelian, swarthyguy, alpowolf (#54)
For starters, I must question why, when replying to my comment, was I not included in the reply.
#57. To: ladybug, SKYDRIFTER, karelian, swarthyguy, alpowolf (#54)
Also it is very convenient that where there is a passage telling us NOT to cut and adorn a tree of the forest (isn't that how we get christmas trees, cut them from the forest and adorn them???) that suddenly in a now multi-denominational Bible, this object is likened more to a scarecrow??
#58. To: Destro (#56)
thought I did - my bad - for it was your type of Protestant nuttery I wanted to answer.
#59. To: Destro (#57)
Though the Christmas tree decorating has spread to all over the world - even non-Christian Shinto Japanese like to keep Christmas trees - it is not a tradition found much in eastern Christianity.
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