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Immigration
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Title: Walls Are for Losers
Source: TechCentralStation
URL Source: http://www.tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=110806E
Published: Dec 27, 2006
Author: Nathan Smith
Post Date: 2006-12-28 15:14:20 by gargantuton
Keywords: None
Views: 320
Comments: 19

Walls Are for Losers

By Nathan Smith : 08 Nov 2006

The Ming dynasty emperors in China (1368-1644) were the biggest builders of the famous Great Wall. A native Chinese dynasty coming to power in the wake of a Mongol occupation, they wanted to strengthen their defenses against the nomadic peoples to the north. But a Manchu army crossed over it and conquered them anyway.

In the years after World War I, France, recognizing its weakness vis-à-vis Germany, built a supposedly invincible fortification along its frontier with Germany called the Maginot Line. Built very high, of concrete and steel, with forts at 10-mile intervals, the wall nonetheless failed to prevent Germany from conquering France with lightning speed in 1940.

In 1961 the Communist regime of East Germany found itself suffering from mass emigration to the freer and more prosperous West. To prevent this outflow they built the Berlin Wall. When the workers of East Germany tore down that wall, they brought down the East German regime with it.

The lesson of history? Walls are for losers.

America doesn't have a frontier with hostile barbarians who want to conquer us. Instead, we have a frontier with friendly Mexicans who want to work for and with us. Nonetheless, the historical pattern—walls are for losers—still applies. It plays itself out, not in battles or revolutions, but in elections.

From 1991 to 1999, Pete Wilson was governor of California, a state where Republicans had long been competitive. Indeed, California was the home state of Republican presidents Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan. Pete Wilson was a prominent supporter of Proposition 187, a harsh crackdown on illegal immigration (later overturned by the courts). Since then (at least until Arnold), the Republican Party's support in California has collapsed.

In 2005, Jerry Kilgore and Tim Kaine faced off in the race for governor of Virginia. Virginia is a Republican-leaning state which Bush won easily in 2004. But Kilgore ran as an anti-immigration candidate and lost.

Also in 2005, Republicans in the House of Representatives passed HR4437, a fiercely anti-immigrant bill which would have legally defined millions of peaceful, though undocumented workers, as felons. It criminalized those who assisted illegal immigrants as well, and could have led to the jailing of Catholic clergy who ministered to them. (Cardinal Mahoney of Los Angeles pointed out that the bill would oblige the Catholic Church to engage, not for the first time, in civil disobedience.)

That bill didn't get through the Senate, but another one did. This fall both the House and Senate passed the Secure Fence Act, authorizing a 700-mile fence along the southern border. President Bush signed the bill on October 26.

Republicans had held the House of Representatives for twelve years. After the fence bill was signed, they lasted just twelve days before the voters gave them the boot. Of course immigration wasn't the only, or the main, issue; Iraq was. Nonetheless, the "walls are for losers" pattern has claimed another scalp. Meanwhile, even the Republican Senate, which, before the fence bill, hardly anyone thought was even in play, looks at present writing like it may have fallen to the Democrats.

Why do politicians who take a stance against immigration keep losing—especially when more Americans want reduced immigration (40%) as opposed to the present level (37%) or increased (17%)?

For one thing, though Americans may prefer less immigration personally, they may understand that the government has, and should have, only limited say in immigration levels. The immigration decision should be in the hands of the immigrant. Americans hate high gas prices, too, but at least some of them understand that these are, and should be, a function of market forces.

But the main reason is probably simpler: the political spectrum. Swing voters are in the center. When Republicans crack down on immigration, they lose votes in the center, and gain none on the right, since they had those anyway. It's a guaranteed net loss. It should have been obvious that signing the fence bill on the eve of the election could only be troublesome for Republicans. Congressmen get reams of letters from angry types who want to close the borders. This time, they listened to the siren song.

Despite signing the fence bill, President Bush has long supported a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants. As he said in January 2004:

"Many undocumented workers have walked mile after mile, through the heat of the day and the cold of the night. Some have risked their lives in dangerous desert border crossings, or entrusted their lives to the brutal rings of heartless human smugglers. Workers who seek only to earn a living end up in the shadows of American life -- fearful, often abused and exploited. When they are victimized by crime, they are afraid to call the police, or seek recourse in the legal system. They are cut off from their families far away, fearing if they leave our country to visit relatives back home, they might never be able to return to their jobs.

"The situation I described is wrong. It is not the American way."

Now, with the Democrats in charge of one or both Houses of Congress, President Bush—like another Texan president overseeing an unpopular war, Lyndon Johnson—may have his chance to improve his legacy by achieving a major civil rights advance.

Nathan Smith is a writer living in Washington, D.C.

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#1. To: gargantuton (#0)

Nathan - you simpleton.

Somewhere in Texas...
a village is missing its idiot.

Lod  posted on  2006-12-28   15:44:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: gargantuton, lodwick (#0)

But a Manchu army crossed over it and conquered them anyway

Hundreds of years later the Manchu breached the walls. - Sparta had no walls - by law she was forbidden to build walls to prevent her people from going soft and relying on them and they also fell.

So the lesson learned is that there is no lesson that can be learned.

"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom

Destro  posted on  2006-12-28   16:13:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: The author, Nathan Smith is an open border freak who mixes a desired tax on illegals with Ricardo's comparative advantage, IOW, he's a full blown ASSHAT. (#2)

http://www.tcsdaily.com/Article.aspx?id=062006D

Don't Restrict Immigration, Tax It Font Size:

By Nathan Smith : BIO| 20 Jun 2006

Discuss This Story! (69) Email | Print | Bookmark | Save

The goal of this article is to outline an open borders policy that achieves "Pareto-improvement." Sounds boring, I know. But bear with me. Pareto- improvement, a term from economics, means that some people are made better off while no one is made worse off. In a complex world, it is impossible for a policy literally to make no one worse off. But policies can be designed that, while many benefit, no social group can be identified that is systematically harmed.

Simple freedom of migration, like simple free trade, does not satisfy the Pareto-improvement criterion. While the theory of comparative advantage proves that when Country A opens its markets to goods from Country B, Country A as a whole will be better off, within Country A there will be "winners," such as workers and capital owners in the industries which can penetrate new export markets, and "losers," such as import-competing industries.

Snip

Jethro Tull  posted on  2006-12-28   16:25:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Jethro Tull (#3)

Thanks Muchas Gracias for the education in "Pareto-".

"The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer."
---Henry Kissinger, New York Times, October 28, 1973

robin  posted on  2006-12-28   17:13:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: gargantuton (#0)

In the years after World War I, France, recognizing its weakness vis-à-vis Germany, built a supposedly invincible fortification along its frontier with Germany called the Maginot Line. Built very high, of concrete and steel, with forts at 10-mile intervals, the wall nonetheless failed to prevent Germany from conquering France with lightning speed in 1940.

That's because:

A: The wall was never finished

B: The French never bothered to fortify their border along the Belgium border, which lead to Germany invading that country so they could simply go around the French fortifications.

Go read up on the Finnish "Mannerhiem Line." The *gasp* "wall" of bunkers (manned by pissed off Reindeer hearders), barbed wire, tank traps, and trenches stopped what was at the time the world's largest conventional military for months on end and was finally breached only by a week long massive army level attack of tanks, bombers, and artillary.

"The more I see of life, the less I fear death" - Me.

Pissed Off Janitor  posted on  2006-12-28   17:24:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Jethro Tull (#3)

Don't Restrict Immigration, Tax It Font Size

I like that idea. Tax it a whole bunch...

Rock gives children, on a silver platter, with all the public authority of the entertainment industry, everything their parents always used to tell them they had to wait for until they grew up and would understand later. --Allan Bloom

"The disgusting stink of a too loud electric guitar; now that's my idea of a good time." -- Frank Zappa

gargantuton  posted on  2006-12-28   18:10:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Pissed Off Janitor (#5)

The finnish line was still busted through... and, even if those conditions which the french failed to meet could be met in the US (i doubt they could) it is still far too impractical to maintain. It wouldn't work, and there is no reason for it to be built.

Rock gives children, on a silver platter, with all the public authority of the entertainment industry, everything their parents always used to tell them they had to wait for until they grew up and would understand later. --Allan Bloom

"The disgusting stink of a too loud electric guitar; now that's my idea of a good time." -- Frank Zappa

gargantuton  posted on  2006-12-28   18:12:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: gargantuton (#6)

Tax it a whole bunch...

how would that be enforced when these people are coming because of the welfare? how and when would they be taxed? upon entry?

christine  posted on  2006-12-28   18:35:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: gargantuton (#6)

I like that idea. Tax it a whole bunch...

As we all know any tax grows government. So this absurd tax scheme would do just that, grow government. To further complicate matters, illegals also grow government by sucking on any government teat they can latch on to. Good luck sailing this one...

Jethro Tull  posted on  2006-12-28   18:39:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: gargantuton (#6)

Listen to this excellent interview of Pat Buchanan with Alex Jones which I believe articulates the gravity of what we are up against.

click here

christine  posted on  2006-12-28   18:59:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: gargantuton (#6)

How to Tax Immigration

The reason that open borders can lead to Pareto-improvement is because, aside from being unfair, border restrictions are also hugely inefficient. A whole lot of people who would be far more productive in America are forced to stay somewhere else. Since immigration makes the pie much bigger, everyone can get a bigger piece. Here's how.

First, an open borders policy must be resolute in denying welfare and taxpayer-funded social services to (most) immigrants, because any social safety net provided in the US will represent a higher standard of living than what prevails in many countries.

So, as an alternative "social safety net" for immigrants, every immigrant -- or guest worker -- should deposit at a US consulate (or at private firms authorized by the US government to administer this transaction) an amount equal to the cost of deporting them. Having made this deposit, the guest worker should be deported at his or her own pre-paid expense if he becomes unable to support him- or herself.

from the article JT posted. it answered my question to you. in theory, it's good, but the reality is since we have a treasonous government whose agenda is the destruction of our sovereign nation (North American Union) and the dissolution of the middle class, it's a fantasy pipe dream.

christine  posted on  2006-12-28   19:36:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: christine (#11)

but the reality is since we have a treasonous government whose agenda is the destruction of our sovereign nation (North American Union) and the dissolution of the middle class, it's a fantasy pipe dream.

Bingo. They aren't here to do the work Americans won't do. And to whomever hires them, they're part of the problem. Run them out on a rail before they change this culture and color.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2006-12-28   19:50:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: gargantuton (#0)

Walls Are for Losers

Press Passes Are For Pansies.

When the going gets weird the weird turn pro. - Hunter S Thompson

Dakmar  posted on  2006-12-28   20:05:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: gargantuton (#7)

The finnish line was still busted through...

After a massive combinded arms assault and the Finns completly out of ammuntion for everything except small arms. Even then they still stopped the Soviets after inflicting horid losses upon them and forced them into a ceasefire that left Finland with its independance intact. (The Soviet had thought that they would "liberate" the entire nation within a week. After 3 monthes of bloody losses they settled for a few terrirtory concessions) Without the Mannerheim Line Finns would have been learning to speak Russian by Mid 1940.

If we built a wall and the Mexicans brought up Tanks and Arty to bust through it, that would be an act of war and DC would be in the right to start deploying troops along the border.

it wouldn't work, and there is no reason for it to be built.

But we can post US soldiers to over 100 nations across the world and supply and maintain them. We can built city size Bases in Iraq that are all totally self sufficent. We can deploy 150,000 US troops (plus logistics) on a fool's errand in a nation half a world away. But we can't spend a dime shoring up the southern border.

Fine then, if that's the way it is then it's time to disband the US Military since they can't (or won't) be used to defend the American people and soil. They're worthless, fire them all and have the IRS send me a refund check so I can learn the language and skills I need to jump off this sinking ship.

P.S. If "walls" don't work then why is Israel fighting tooth and nail to get the US taxpayer to finance theirs?

"The more I see of life, the less I fear death" - Me.

Pissed Off Janitor  posted on  2006-12-28   20:15:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Pissed Off Janitor, Jethro Tull (#14)

But we can post US soldiers to over 100 nations across the world and supply and maintain them. We can built city size Bases in Iraq that are all totally self sufficent. We can deploy 150,000 US troops (plus logistics) on a fool's errand in a nation half a world away. But we can't spend a dime shoring up the southern border.

Fine then, if that's the way it is then it's time to disband the US Military since they can't (or won't) be used to defend the American people and soil. They're worthless, fire them all and have the IRS send me a refund check so I can learn the language and skills I need to jump off this sinking ship.

i'm applauding.

christine  posted on  2006-12-28   20:38:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Pissed Off Janitor (#14)

But we can post US soldiers to over 100 nations across the world and supply and maintain them. We can built city size Bases in Iraq that are all totally self sufficient. We can deploy 150,000 US troops (plus logistics) on a fool's errand in a nation half a world away. But we can't spend a dime shoring up the southern border.

bump of the freaking year.

Somewhere in Texas...
a village is missing its idiot.

Lod  posted on  2006-12-28   20:39:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Pissed Off Janitor (#14)

POJ...the PTB don't want the border fixed. The brown flood is by design. Any one of the countless "secure the border" remedies would be successful, and quickly, but that would halt the creation of the North American Union. They want us arguing about how best to solve the very problem they intentionally created. We can't continue to fall into that trap. Thesis, anti-thesis, synthesis.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2006-12-28   20:54:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: gargantuton (#0)

But a Manchu army crossed over it and conquered them anyway.

What the wall mainly did was stop raiders from escaping with loot.

Support your local gunfighter.

Tauzero  posted on  2006-12-29   1:56:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Jethro Tull (#17)

POJ...the PTB don't want the border fixed. The brown flood is by design.

I figured that out when the Mexicans who spoke louded for "Reconquesta" simply wanted to merge the US South West with Mexico. Like the Russians who came here the hard way (I.e. the red tape route) I talked to in Alaska, they despise the "cheaters" who just skip over the border or use some loophole to get in.

The Mexicans who came here through proper channels hate the loud mouthes who want to return the US south-west to Mexico. They moved here because they were sick of living in a country where 2% living in luxary while the other 90% lived in poverty and the wide spread coruption.

That why the Aztlanders are allowed to come in. If they came here and started screaming about breaking away from FEDGOV's control and setting up a new seperate nation based on freedom, liberty, and no ties to the bastards in Mexico City and DC you can bet that motion activaded mini-guns and mine fields would have been installed along the entire border years ago.

"The more I see of life, the less I fear death" - Me.

Pissed Off Janitor  posted on  2006-12-29   6:04:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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