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Title: Domestic Turkeys
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URL Source: http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_05/mathid122706.html
Published: Dec 29, 2006
Author: Sam Mathid
Post Date: 2006-12-29 11:21:09 by christine
Keywords: None
Views: 4074
Comments: 295
I buy gold (and silver) for one reason. That reason is that things are about to change. That was my conclusion in June of 2000 and I sense the approach of that change growing ever closer. I am not just talking about the usual economic reasons such as the gross debasement of fiat currencies around the world, or the insane levels of debt created with enthusiastic abandon by our shifty, self-serving politicians or the equally idiotic levels of private debt; neither am I talking about the sheer indifference and/or incompetence of our governing officials and their enthusiastic squandering of the vast taxes confiscated from the peasants who continue to work and create and produce despite all inducements to not do so. I am referring to the fact that Western civilisation is beset with a stupidity that is so rampant, so widespread and so ingrained that it cannot continue for much longer. 'Stupidity' is the opposite of 'smart' and both words can only exist in the context of survival in one form or another. We have drifted so far from survival as a race that we have placed survival itself at risk. How is it possible for people to not understand that rewarding the incompetent by the process of penalising the able will lead to greater incompetence? How is it possible to believe that punishing producers to reward non-producers will do anything but eventually and logically cause a total cessation of production? We live in a world where the mindless trilling of politicians and aging pop singers is regarded as the font of all wisdom; a world where some people really believe that the end is nigh because of global warming and that the government ought to spend itself billions of dollars even further into debt doing something about it… as if an organization that cannot deliver mail properly could save the world from a meteorological catastrophe. We live in a world where less than 50% of the workforce actually create wealth and who subsequently then have to support the more than 50% who do not; where private employers may no longer dictate the terms of employment to their own employees. A world where general practitioners who are trusted with nations' health are so ignorant of real causation, let alone healing, that it is usually safer not to go to them, and where psychiatrists drug human brains in crazed attempts to solve problems of the mind. At the same time as our governments have confiscated most of the financial benefits from the most major technological advance of the human race ever, they have managed via their daft social engineering schemes and outright corruption to simultaneously bankrupt western civilisation in the manner of tin-pot African dictators peeling the skins off banana republics. 'Follow the money' has justifiably become the mantra of the age as it is often the only way to find out what is really going on. To do so shows an alarming discrepancy between appearance and reality. The wide-eyed young street activists campaigning for action against global warming are, in a bizarre fact, the unwitting foot soldiers of the nuclear power industry. The white coated psychiatrists cosily posing as healers of the mind are in reality extraordinarily well paid salesmen for unscrupulous pharmaceutical companies. Pious, tax funded promoters of the war against hunger cover their dirty dollar tracks back to vast agri-business concerns like Monsanto who are the manufacturers and promoters of genetically and atomically modified foods which threaten to monopolise the world's food supply. We live in a world where new legislation banning something or other spews forth every week from our governing elite creating more and more criminals to the point where nothing, and I do mean NOTHING is not covered by some incomprehensibly complex piece of government legislation. The legislation is so obtuse that it is literally not possible to ever comply fully with any certainty even if one was so inclined. I was speaking with a policewoman a few years ago who told me that she tends to only socially mix with other members of the force. The reason? "Everyone always looks so guilty and uncomfortable when I tell them that I am a police officer. Everyone has done something that breaks the law." And that sums up the truth of the matter. Our governments have made criminals of all of us whilst allowing real criminals to roam free and easy on the streets. The constant promises of governments to end corruption and inequality and monopolies inevitably lead to greater corruption and greater inequality and greater monopolies and still people cannot see the obvious which is that government control is the problem, not the solution. It is as though the spirit of Walt Disney rules the western world and is producing a vast Road Runner fantasy whereby society can fall over steep cliffs and then pick itself up, dust itself off and carry on as though nothing had really happened. Well we are heading over a cliff, but society will not be able to pick itself up and dust itself off afterwards. Things are going to change big time when and after we reach the bottom. Survival is based upon making decisions that result in actions conducive to survival. Such decisions can only sanely be made at the level of the individual. Sometimes individuals get it wrong and suffer the consequences, so be it, but with governments taking over the decision making role you can be sure that those wrong calls will become institutionalised; and you can also be sure that there will be an awful lot of wrong calls. That is what has got us to where we are now. Heading down the path that we are currently treading it is a foregone conclusion that both personal and business initiative will cease to exist and that we will be reduced to the intellectual and economic level of Cuba or North Korea. In its ever more obsessive pursuit with saving our bodies our governments are killing our souls and in the process are reducing people to a level of apathy. Most people don't like it, but they don't feel that they can change anything. Is that a definition of apathy, or what leads to apathy? I'm not sure. Domestic turkeys don't have a high IQ and over the generations have had responsibility for their own survival bred out to the point that when born they have to be trained how to drink water by placing sparkling coloured marbles at the bottom of the water bowl for them to play with. Without this aid the poults (young turkeys) die of thirst. There is a similarity between these poults and the citizens of modern societies who rely on and trust governments to such a degree that they feel no personal responsibility for their own survival. To place that much faith in unaccountable governments is a sure recipe for non-survival. Because people start with a higher IQ than turkeys the process takes longer, but the result will eventually be the same. The poults actually have the advantage in that it is in the interests of the farmer to keep the turkeys alive… at least until Christmas. No such incentive exists for the politicians. Why would they really care whether you live or die unless it is some way affects their electoral standing? The survival traits of the human race are being bred out by a lazy illusion of permanent prosperity and safety brought about by wise and benevolent Great Nanny States. It is all madness. Of course it will come to an end. Eventually our apathetic tolerance of such foolishness will give way to anger which will quickly become rage. Change is on the way because we either change or we cease to exist as a civilisation. Our civilisation is like a dule of young turkeys who are in danger of losing their marbles. One day in the not too distant future I believe that gold and silver will be great investments; almost as good as a stockpile of baked beans.
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#98. To: Diana (#67)
or liquor. Now that currency is liquid and easy to value. Tho not really. For example (and I am revealing secrets here) Ron Rico run ($7.99 a 750 ml is exactly the same liquid as Bacardi for $12.99. The only difference is the $100,000,000 spent telling you Bacardi makes you cooler if you buy it.
Dude, in the teens and twenties everyone in the Appalachians was essentially a "militia/survivalist". Merely because there wasn't a lot of violence and death doesn't mean they weren't armed, prepared and capable of generating their own food and operating in localized economies. As for the bonus marchers, they were WWI vets trying to get a compensation certificate paid out early during the depression. They were unarmed, and Hoover never ordered them shot, just forced out of DC where they were becoming an unsanitary problem...
"pound pastrami, can kraut, six bagels – bring home for Emma"
When you send in the army - that implies you authorized the shooting - which happened - the US Army under Gen. MacArthur marched at bayonet point and shot into the Bonus Marchers. So next time someone says lets march on DC as an organized peaceful militia force remember what the US Army did to the Bonus Marchers.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
'Survivalist' entails a very specific thing - you know it and I know it. a movement brought about due to the rising Cold War fears and the economic crisis starting in the 70s.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
So you are pretty much saying over and over again that anyone who chooses individual independence and self-reliance over participation in a corrupted fascist political system which makes people dependent on government checks and conformist thinking, is not a good citizen? Odd that the ruling class actively promotes involvement - or maybe it isn't. True freedom outside the system IS the enemy of the elitist. Richard W.
I am saying that not resisting a corrupted fascist political system is being a bad citizen. By very definition a citizen is someone who is active in the political life of the city-state. Not participating in the 'process' or 'resistance' (which can be non-violent resistance) does not make you a bad person but that is not the sign of being a good citizen. Retreating is not resistance. It is avoidance.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
I respectfully disagree. There is no real meanful public participation in the current system. Proof - the choices "handed" to us in the last presidential election. Yeah right. I say, step aside, prepare and wait until the corrupted mass destroys itself. Beating your head agaist a wall is a waste of time and resouces. Richard W.
I agree to a degree. The issue before us is if not participating by say becoming a 'survivalist- retreater' (a more accurate term?) is a sign of being a good citizen or not. I consider resistance as a form of participation as well as continuing working within the corrupt system in an attempt to change it. I don't consider 'dropping out' a form of resistance nor do I consider it an act of 'civitas' - though I understand why some do.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
You are a very absolutist thinker - black or white. That's what the government shills and propagandists do - "for us or against us". "You must be a liberal and hate America if you don't support the war". It's so much bullshit and so is a narrow restrictive definition of what a good citizen does or doesn't do. I fight the system by staying out of debt and not falling for the latest corportate "must have" gadget. Above all, I don't let others define me. Richard W.
That is a wrong assesment - Citizen has a very specific political meaning. I fight the system by staying out of debt and not falling for the latest corportate "must have" gadget. Above all, I don't let others define me. I don't understand why you are identifying this behavior of yours (which is commendable) with being a 'survivalist-retreater'? I don't consider the 'survivalist-retreater' philosophy and behavior indicative of good participatory citizenship.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
It is only one aspect of my susvivalist personality. Like I said, you are an absolutist and I'm stating to think a propaganist/shill. You start off by narrowly defining people and categorizing them with labels and then you attach a negative modifier to your falsely labeled group. I see that you are now repeating "survivalist-retreater" over and over as if it were true. Next, you will be asking to see our purple fingers. The idea that survivalists are either "retreaters" or not good citizens is pure bullshit. Richard W.
For who? Because I have an opinion? I repeat "survivalist-retreater" to be more accurate - it is something I find Americans lack - the ability for the current American mind to think accurately so I need to clarify each statement to the max. Americans have become a muddled addled brained people and I find I need to speak to them on a babyish level because any sign of complexity is viewed with hostility. The group I am talking about started off being called both "survivalists and or retreaters" and some of you 'shills' have taken to mean survivalist as someone who has a preparation/emergency bag, etc. You know very well that "survivalist-retreater" movement was more than this - it was a complete abandonment of any participation in American life beyond gathering supplies for the end time. So in reality I am not using a black and white assessment - I just state that the badge of good citizen is based on the concept that the citizen is an active member of his city-state. I don't see how someone who drops out of society is such a good citizen in the political meaning of the word 'citizen'.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
How are they good citizens? Being a citizen entails a mutual relationship between the citizen and the city-state. If the state fails in its obligations to the citizen then the citizen is obliged to correct the deficiencies of the polis not hide out in the woods.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
No shit . . . and no one fell for it. Now take a step back and consider who your audience is. Richard W.
'Retreater' was what the Survivalists were once self-called.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
So a small fraction of the whole defines the whole group? I don't think so. Richard W.
It is you that insists I am painting with a broad brush - my intent on use the phrase above is to narrow down who I am describing - for some reason you insist on saying I am calling everyone this tag. Why?
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
I'd say that you now have that small fraction of survivalists so narrowed down that you have made both them, and your misleading suvivalist-reteater lickage argument irrelevant. Nice try on your part though. Richard W.
The movement thankfully withered - what we have left are the offshoots of men and women so dispirited they refuse even to think they can defeat the forces of the state and head off the 'end'. All they talk about is hoarding some supplies and riding out the end and then they will emerge is some sort of new American paradise..... Fantasists...
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
I agree. Many see the lying weasels in Washington getting away with what amounts to nothing short of murder and thievery and reasonably draw that conclusion. Who is going to hold them accountable and demand justice? Government operates in its own best interest and if bumping off some serfs in the process keeps the rich and powerful running the show, then the serfs are going to get crushed. Richard W.
Oh now we agree - I guess my propaganda shilling worked some how....
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Dispirited doesn't automatically qualify them as either retreatists or survivalists. Richard W.
Nope - just influenced by the movement.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
For starters, I would like to apologize for my delayed response. Do to my job, I am often away from home for a couple of days at a time. This is also the reason that there are times where I must reply to several of your posts at once, as I will be doing here. I was simply trying to show you how ridiculous your statement appeared to the reader. In your world, maybe every thing can be so narrowly defined. In the real world it is not so. As inniway showed you in his reply to you, survival, survivalism, survivalist, and survive all take root meaning in the ability to survive. No where in any of those definitions did it say anything about running, retreating, or that someone who "survived" the Great Depression was unworthy of the term survivalist. You, yourself pulled up wikipidia's definition of survivalism which reads as follows: 1. Natural disasters, such as tornadoes, hurricanes, earthquakes, blizzards, and severe thunderstorms May I point out that in your own reference "survivalism" include the practice of being prepared for an event, even one such as a natural disaster. I am taking for granted here that we can both agree that a "survivalist" is someone who practices survivalism. In preparing for a natural disaster, food shortage, and other such events, a survivalist would have no need, and I doubt any desire to "retreat" nor need for a "militia mentality". A survivalist who practices survivalism does not require the readiness nor desire to retreat or kill. Granted, I do understand, that in your narrow point of view (as Randge stated, looking through a toilet paper tube, calling it a telescope...) that because some survivalists had retreated in the past, and even labeled themselves as retreater's, you are now convinced that the word survivalist shall now be replaced by retreater forever, no argument, and no one else's view is welcome. I have to beg to differ, many people posses survivalist ability, but some people of this fiber also tend to retreat. Some people of this fiber have a militia mentality. I simply wish to clarify that not all of us plan nor desire to retreat, neither do all of us have the militia mentality. Granted, some of the survivalists have both. Also here are a few more quotes from you that I would like to address: I consider resistance as a form of participation as well as continuing working within the corrupt system in an attempt to change it. I don't consider 'dropping out' a form of resistance nor do I consider it an act of 'civitas' - though I understand why some do. I don't consider the 'survivalist-retreater' philosophy and behavior indicative of good participatory citizenship. How are they good citizens? Being a citizen entails a mutual relationship between the citizen and the city-state. There is one form of "retreat" that I condone %100. That is retreat from the system that is wrongfully and unlawful abusing the citizens that have been faithfully following. The longer people blindly slave for our government, the more of our rights that are forfeited. When you hold a Social (in)Security card, you hold a taxpayer identification number which obliges you to adhere to a tax code that not even law. The system originally began as a voluntary benefit program. Take it or leave it, but if you desire retirement benefits, you sign up, get a card, pay in all your life and then get some benefits back when you are old. Don't get me wrong, I am not against the idea, I appreciate that the government cares enough to offer assistance in retirement planning. But this program has gotten blown way out of proportion. The program is still voluntary, you can walk in to any Social Security office and request the form to withdraw yourself from it(or even download it online), and relinquish any and all money that you have paid in, and give up your association to that number. But thanks to further illegal legislation, if you choose to not participate in this voluntary program, you have a miserable time trying to find work, you cannot obtain a drivers license, you cannot hook up a telephone, internet, or any bank accounts or many other things that you need this number for. Hmmm, does not sound very voluntary to me. Granted, you can still get out of the system, but not without making your life difficult. Here is where I do condone one form of retreating. If more and more people were to disassociate themselves from this voluntary program (I believe that it may take hundreds of thousands for this to happen,I am not holding my breath), and deal with a few hardships for a while, then the government would eventually see that they cannot continue to keep the country in this daily increasing strangle hold that we are currently in. Now this is not necessarily retreating from society. It is standing up for your rights in a very noticeable manner and peacefully requiring the government to make legislative changes. What makes this system an issue for some, is that the Lord describes many times in the statues that he requires his people to live by strict liability. Also the the constitution and the bill of rights both allow for religious free exercise. Essentially, the God expects us to be liable for our own choices, and the government allows for us the worship as we wish, but if we choose to not participate in Social Security our lives become very difficult. This in my opinion, is very conflicting. But pulling out of the system does not mean that you are a poor citizen, in fact it tends to bring citizens (at least of the local community) closer together. Employers have to appreciate their employees enough to pay cash and lose some of their normal tax deductions, employees work harder in appreciation of the employer paying cash, and knowing the difficulty of finding a job, if paid my check, the employee has to rely on local merchants to cash it for them as they cannot obtain a bank account, also, for private work done, barter becomes far more common, your grocer, bar, or gas station may even accept silver as payment when you do not have cash available. You can dispute all of the above as much as you wish, but the above situation is not hypothetical. In my local community this is fact. I do know a couple of people that do not participate in Social Security, and it has caused them to become better and more productive citizens, and because they work so much harder and are so much more appreciative of being hired to work, those in the community that are still tied to Social Security and such are much more willing to help these people trade as needed. As a matter of fact, in the near future, I will be giving up my social security number as well. Unfortunately I do have a few small debts to clear up before this can happen. This is not an easy choice for me. I am a truck driver, and I really enjoy my job, but there is no way I can hold a CDL (or any other class of drivers license) without a Social Security number. I am not delusional, I do not believe that my giving up my SSN will necessarily change legislation, but do to the fact that participating in this program conflicts with what know from the Bible, I can not continue on in good conscience since I have learned that Social Security is a voluntary program.
"Don't Steal, the government hates competition."
very well articulated.
*blush* Well thank you. My post is nothing more than my simple feelings. Moreover, being that I am prepared to survive, I do not appreciate when survivalists are being labeled as retreaters. Also, I do not feel that you should have to be a slave to be a good citizen. To participate in programs that you do not desire or need just so that you can enjoy your God given rights, which the government has labeled as "privileges" should never be tolerated. I do feel that anyone who is fed up with the system must know that getting out of it is an option, though it can make life more difficult. This option of getting out of the system is the best way I can see to stand up to the tyranny that is steadily overtaking our country, even though in small numbers, this will have no impact. In this day and age you can write letters to all of the politicians that you can find addresses to until both of your hands fall off, and yet nothing will change. Peaceful, legal action, IMHO, is always best. But there are times when the tyranny has gone too far and force is required. Thank God we have not reached that point yet, but I fear that too many people will write letter's or just complain in internet forums until it is too late, that is their choice.
"Don't Steal, the government hates competition."
That is fine - but you can not call that being a good citizen. Which is the point you are avoiding I think. Take for example this article - you fear fiat money collapse. Instead of organizing to get the govt to follow the will of the majority and back the dollar with gold reserves you all engage in the alternative of hording gold as the alternative. Instead of trying to change the system you are dropping out of it - already admitting defeat.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
We done been defeated - and that long ago. It's better to come clean and admit it. (Which is something our White House doesn't know how to do.)
THERE'S NOT ONE DOUBT IN MY MIND THAT WE WILL FAIL - GW Bush
The system will never change if we continue to blindly comply. We can grumble all we want, but unless we hit the legislators where it hurts, in the pocket book, they will not change the way things are. Furthermore, as I explained in my post, there are many reasons that I am withdrawing from the Social Security system. One of the major reasons is that this system violates my personal beliefs. How is this being a "bad" citizen if the government it self has made sure to keep this program at least somewhat voluntary, and allow a means to remove yourself from it?? It is not breaking any laws, violating any ones rights, I am not running off to some cave to be a hermit. I have simply decided that participating in this voluntary program is against what I feel is right for me, that since I do not feel it is right I will never draw benefits from it, and I shall no longer pay into it either. Granted that this will add a few difficulties into my life, but I believe that they are worth it. I do not understand how this is admitting defeat, I am intelligent enough to understand that I do still have a few unadulterated rights left in this country, and I have chosen to exercise the right to not participate in this program. Admitting defeat would be something more along the lines of, "yeah, I know it is wrong, and it violates my personal beliefs, but the government has me over a barrel, there is nothing I can do". Myself, on the other hand, I have chosen to take a course of action that will no longer violate my personal beliefs. I am willing to give up my career, and work harder for less, but I can take relief that I am living my life the best way that I know how. That, my friend, is not defeat, but a small personal victory. But I cannot understand where you think that you have the right to judge whether a persons chosen plans make them a good citizen or not. Could it be that because you are prepared to cut-and-run that you have a guilty conscience. Is that why you insist that all survivalists are retreaters? Because that is a large part of your survival plan? And because of your guilty conscience, you feel the need to demean someone else's citizenship. You can rest assured, that I know that I am a good citizen, despite your two-bit opinion. Nothing will change in this country unless citizens stand up and lawfully demand change. Think about it this way, if 10% of each of our states population were to follow in the footsteps of myself and the couple of other local citizens who have withdrawn from Social Security, the impact from this would have a ripple effect that would have some of the big money lobbyists screaming for change for our benefit. This route would probably take far less than 10% of the population, but I can promise that if people started taking quiet, legal action, in a way that influences the right people, there would be change. Once again, I am not delusional, I don't believe that my stepping out of the system will be the straw that broke the camel's back, it will take many more people following in suit to implement change. I am doing this because I believe it is right, and if eventually enough people follow in suit to create change, all the better. Also, I do not run around telling people that they should withdraw. Yes, I believe that it is the best choice for me, but I am also prepared to handle the repercussions. I have horses here I can saddle up instead of driving, my bills are minimal enough that I do not have to chase the almighty dollar, I have already removed my self from the banking system and so on. I am sure to warn anyone who is interested in this course of action of the privileges that they will be giving up. There are also many privileges to be gained as well. For instance, did you know that if you do not get a birth certificate or a SSN for your child at birth that Social Services can never say one word about how you raise your child. You can educate that child at home in the manner you desire and never have to deal with the government to do it, also that child could never be drafted for the military. But there is also the fact that that child could never attend public school, never qualify for college loans and so on and so forth. There are many things to balance and consider before one makes such a life changing decision. But making this decision in no way admits defeat. Just the opposite, it is taking action that can implement change, and accepting that your life will be more difficult for doing it. That is something you can take pride in.
"Don't Steal, the government hates competition."
Every time that I purchase silver and willingly exchange my FRN's for it, I am both sending a message and voting for a bimetal backed currency. I personally don't believe that there is any chance that our totally corrupted government will ever return to something like a gold standard, but you are welcome to believe, that for some unexplained reason, the ruling class will suddenly become fiscally responsible and start acting in the interests of the serfs rather than the bankers and Wall Street. Richard W.
Shucks, I guess you must be a bad citizen as well. Maybe we will have to start a support group for all of us bad citizens on the forum. Who knows, if we ask pretty please with sugar on top, Destro may even counsel us on how to be good citizens. :)
"Don't Steal, the government hates competition."
The expression, "They work for us" is one of the biggest lies ever told. We the people, have almost no voice at all in government. Congress is nothing more than organized crime working under the ruse of an officially elected constitutional government. Nothing short of armed rebellion is going to change that. Richard W.
I can definitely agree with that. But as far as the armed rebellion, I vote for hitting them in the pocket books first. As Destro mentioned, peaceful marches on DC are met with some degree of force. Now if you have an armed militia, the government simply labels you some sort of terrorist, extremist, cult or other brand of public nuisance. By pinning this label on you it is open season on the militia, and the sheeple thank the government from saving them from this evil. Then the government can implement more strangle holds on the public, and get a pat on the back for doing so. IMHO in order to get the governments attention it must be peaceful, yet devastating. Like hitting the pocket books of not only the government, but of banking and insurance people as well. By hitting the funders of major lobbyists we now have what your average Joe cannot even hope to afford, lobbyists being funded for what the people really want and need. Option number two, in order for an armed rebellion to work, we would need the vast majority of the country armed and on our side, and massive amounts of organization. I do not see this happening any time soon. The government will have to really tromp all over our rights so much that even the sheeple consider believing that this is for our own benefit. Before the government will go that far they will have armies of immigrants (illegal and otherwise) they don't care about the rights of citizens and will fight simply for their own benefit. Then not even the sheeple will dare stand, as it was the common gutlessness of mainstream America that put us in this boat to begin with. Don't get me wrong, if I see no other means of fighting the tyranny, I will fight. Hell, if that day comes, I may be among those who lead the rebellion. I despise what this country is coming to because I love what it was meant to be.
"Don't Steal, the government hates competition."
The government has become very good at preventing that from ever happening by keeping the population more or less evenly divided and at each others throats. Same crap the rulers do all over the world. Divide and conquer. The puppet government in Iraq wouldn't survive a week if the public hadn't been actively divided. Richard W.
So, in the arena of dialogue, you get to infer that the Bonus Marchers with their wives and kids were "Militia" members, while my merely equating the skill level of Appalachian dwellers as equivalent to modern Survivalists is verboten? Kinda disingenuous I'd say, not to mention missing the point...
"pound pastrami, can kraut, six bagels – bring home for Emma"
That nail is squarely head-hit. Reduce/eliminate debt, pay in cash, invest in tangible assets, buy in-country manufatured products wherever possible. Starving the government of its green blood is the main route of dissent...
"pound pastrami, can kraut, six bagels – bring home for Emma"
You are a willful self deceiver. You damn well know that the term 'survivalist' (also called 'retreater' or 'retreatist' in the early 70s) refers to a movement that arose during the Cold War where people were so afraid society was about to collapse/end they retreated to the mountains and were waiting for the end of the world with the hopes the stocked up enough food to last through the crisis. This 'Survivalist' is not the same as people who live off the earth because they are poor dirt farmers like the Appalachians. Any attempt by you to link this movement to just natural skills acquired by people who live off the earth but have no political or ideological bent to their being mountain folks is disingenuous. As for the Bonus Marchers - Militia means an organized force of citizens. The Bonus Marchers was the closest thing to a militia march on DC we have ever seen (and they were unarmed) - ex soldiers - organized and marching and protesting - and they were put down by the US Army with deadly force.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Why buy American? Buy foreign made and kill off American manufacturing even quicker - eliminating a revenue base for the Feds. Buy Chinese whenever you can - no quicker way to eliminate the power of America.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Destro, you are a moron. What, you would rather bring on the destruction of this country as quick as you can rather than take the high road and work to preserve the country that our founding fathers worked so hard to build?? I can understand that you think that by strangling the supply of money to the Fed. But look at the civil war, the only reason that the North "won" was that they were self reliant. They had enough manufacturing facilities that they could produce what they needed. The South on the other had to purchase the majority of goods they needed to survive. The two means of purchasing these goods were cotton and the money that they had printed for their new Confederate government. Not only was their monetary means insufficient, but the supply lines were easily controlled by the North, this left the South very vulnerable. If you remove the Americans ability to sustain themselves you weaken the people. As it is, the ability of this country to produce what we use is already greatly impaired. We export on average only one fourth of what we import. Take the shoe industry, the United States only produces 10% of the footwear that American consumers purchase. If you truly wish to strangle the Fed and strengthen our country, concentrate on an open market. Whenever possible produce your own or go straight to a small business that produces their own. Take shoes for an example again, my standard footwear is cowboy boots. There are many leather workers who are what I call "little guys", buying boots from them will cost more, but also you generally get what you pay for, and these boots last longer. When purchasing from your average "little guy" if you pay cash and tell them that you do not need a receipt they will typically not report that income, hence not pay taxes on it either. If I am unable to purchase straight from the source, I will buy American anyway, at least this will provide Americans with jobs. In the case of electronics where it is very difficult to buy American, I will buy used. The amount of foreign products that we consume is also the reason that the North American Union is on the horizon. Transport of these imported goods can be greatly reduced if they can use a Mexican port (eliminating American dock workers) having the Mexican drivers able to drive the Semi's with very little hassle, and not having to obtain a United States CDL (eliminating American Truck Drivers) or loading trains in Mexico (Eliminating American railroad employees) to deliver goods all over the United States and even up to Canada with minimal cost. This would be a crushing blow to the American economy and would cost Americans many jobs. I am sure that Americans will not give up their foreign goods, nor Wal-Mart (a huge backer of the North American Union, and major importer of foreign goods)therefore that makes these problems inevitable, so here on the farm we work harder to make sure that we have the ability to produce the vast majority of what we consume. We understand that the economy will crash and crash hard. We also understand that it will do little or no good to be evangelistic and try to warn the masses, because the masses have no desire to change. We simply quietly prepare to feed ourselves and those closest to us. We know that the collapse will hit us hard as well, but at least we won't starve and will not have to steal.
"Don't Steal, the government hates competition."
So what does that make a family who has chosen to be "poor" by eliminating debt and also working away from the house less (hence living on less income) so they can be "dirt farmers" in order to eat healthier and be prepared for an economic breakdown?
"Don't Steal, the government hates competition."
Appalachian like poverty is not chosen by those people nor does it have a political rational - i.e. their poverty is not based on them wanting to belong to a political/social movement.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
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#99. To: Destro (#78)
There was no militia/survivalist movement during the great depression so what fantasy are you talking about? In fact the last I remember Hoover ordered the army to shoot at the closest thing to a militia movement of that era the so called 'Bonus Marchers'.
#100. To: Axenolith (#99)
As for the bonus marchers, they were WWI vets trying to get a compensation certificate paid out early during the depression. They were unarmed, and Hoover never ordered them shot, just forced out of DC where they were becoming an unsanitary problem...
#101. To: Axenolith (#99)
Dude, in the teens and twenties everyone in the Appalachians was essentially a "militia/survivalist".
#102. To: Destro (#94)
I refuted the fact that being a 'retreater' is being a good citizen per whoever wrote that.
#103. To: Arete (#102)
(Edited)
So you are pretty much saying over and over again that anyone who chooses individual independence and self-reliance over participation in a corrupted fascist political system
#104. To: Destro (#103)
Retreating is not resistance. It is avoidance.
#105. To: Arete (#104)
There is no real meanful public participation in the current system.
#106. To: Destro (#105)
#107. To: Arete (#106)
You are a very absolutist thinker - black or white.
#108. To: Destro (#107)
I don't understand why you are identifying this behavior of yours (which is commendable) with being a 'survivalist-retreater'?
#109. To: Arete (#108)
(Edited)
I'm stating to think a propaganist/shill.
#110. To: Arete (#108)
The idea that survivalists are either "retreaters" or not good citizens is pure bullshit.
#111. To: Destro (#109)
I repeat "survivalist-retreater"
#112. To: Arete (#111)
No shit . . . and no one fell for it. Now take a step back and consider who your audience is.
#113. To: Destro (#112)
'Retreater' was what the Survivalists were once self-called.
#114. To: Arete (#113)
So a small fraction of the whole defines the whole group? I don't think so.
#115. To: Destro (#114)
my intent on use the phrase above is to narrow down who I am describing
#116. To: Arete (#115)
(Edited)
#117. To: Destro (#116)
men and women so dispirited they refuse even to think they can defeat the forces of the state and head off the 'end'.
#118. To: Arete (#117)
#119. To: Destro (#118)
#120. To: Arete (#119)
Dispirited doesn't automatically qualify them as either retreatists or survivalists.
#121. To: Destro (#92)
There you go again putting words into my mouth -
Survivalist is a specific type of person/movement - surviving the Great Depression is not being a 'Survivalist'.
A survivalist is a person who anticipates and prepares for a future disruption in local, regional or worldwide social or political order. Survivalists often prepare for this anticipated disruption by learning skills (e.g., emergency medical training), stockpiling food and water, or building structures that will help them to survive (e.g., an underground shelter). The specific preparations made by survivalists depend on the nature of the anticipated disruption, some of the most commonly anticipated being:
2. A disaster brought about by the activities of humankind: chemical spills, release of radioactive materials, or war.
3. General collapse of society, resulting from the unavailability of electricity, fuel, food, and water.
4. Widespread chaos, or some other apocalyptic event.Where did I write being an active community member leads to your doom?
Here is the comment you made that I facetiously replied to in order to illustrate how ridiculously ignorant your posts may seem to the reader, no matter how perfectly they make sense to you: No. Survivalists are drop outs aka 'retreaters'*
If my only chance of surviving an event is to drop out or retreat, I would far rather become a statistic. In my humble opinion, I believe that there would be a lesser chance of surviving such an event if you respond by leaving shelter and stores of food behind for the sake of running. And lastly, if being a drop-out or a retreater has anything to do with being a survivalist, hence practicing the ability to survive, I must be blind, because I fail the see that they are unfailingly intertwined. I am saying that not resisting a corrupted fascist political system is being a bad citizen.
#122. To: ladybug (#121)
#123. To: christine (#122)
very well articulated.
#124. To: ladybug (#121)
There is one form of "retreat" that I condone %100. That is retreat from the system that is wrongfully and unlawful abusing the citizens that have been faithfully following. The longer people blindly slave for our government, the more of our rights that are forfeited.
#125. To: Destro (#124)
#126. To: Destro (#124)
Instead of trying to change the system you are dropping out of it - already admitting defeat.
1. You can not get a drivers license without a SSN - so the state looses 10% of its revenue from drivers licenses.
I could continue on all day about the repercussions that this would inflict, but right there I highlighted three of the major one's that would start demanding changes, the individual states, the banking industry, and the insurance industry. The voice of any one of the above is much louder than the voices of 100,000 citizens. They have either people already in the house or congress, or lobbyists there to influence the house and congress.
2. You cannot obtain insurance on your vehicle without a drivers license - so the insurance company's lose 10% of their business.
3. In many states you cannot renew your license plates on your vehicle without insurance, so the state is again losing 10%
4. Without license plates, insurance, and a drivers license, you dare not drive your vehicle very far from home - so you purchase less gas and oil for your vehicle. Also, it will take longer for your vehicle to wear out, therefore you are not running right out to buy the newest car on the market. More lost revenue's in the oil and car industries.
5. Without out a SSN, you cannot take out bank loans, obtain a credit card, or have a checking account. This means that you have to pay cash for everything, and the banking industry is no longer making interest on you, or checking fees either.
#127. To: Destro (#124)
Take for example this article - you fear fiat money collapse. Instead of organizing to get the govt to follow the will of the majority and back the dollar with gold reserves you all engage in the alternative of hording gold as the alternative.
#128. To: Arete (#127)
I personally don't believe that there is any chance that our totally corrupted government will ever return to something like a gold standard,
#129. To: ladybug (#128)
#130. To: Arete (#129)
The expression, "They work for us" is one of the biggest lies ever told
#131. To: ladybug (#130)
Option number two, in order for an armed rebellion to work, we would need the vast majority of the country armed and on our side, and massive amounts of organization.
#132. To: Destro (#101)
In fact the last I remember Hoover ordered the army to shoot at the closest thing to a militia movement of that era the so called 'Bonus Marchers'.
...in the teens and twenties everyone in the Appalachians was essentially a "militia/survivalist". Merely because there wasn't a lot of violence and death doesn't mean they weren't armed, prepared and capable of generating their own food and operating in localized economies.
#133. To: ladybug (#130)
Like hitting the pocket books of not only the government, but of banking and insurance people as well.
#134. To: Axenolith (#132)
#135. To: Axenolith, ladybug (#133)
buy in-country manufatured products
#136. To: Destro, Axenolith (#135)
(Edited)
Why buy American? Buy foreign made and kill off American manufacturing even quicker - eliminating a revenue base for the Feds. Buy Chinese whenever you can - no quicker way to eliminate the power of America.
#137. To: Destro (#134)
This 'Survivalist' is not the same as people who live off the earth because they are poor dirt farmers
#138. To: ladybug (#137)
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