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Title: Domestic Turkeys
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URL Source: http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_05/mathid122706.html
Published: Dec 29, 2006
Author: Sam Mathid
Post Date: 2006-12-29 11:21:09 by christine
Keywords: None
Views: 4050
Comments: 295
I buy gold (and silver) for one reason. That reason is that things are about to change. That was my conclusion in June of 2000 and I sense the approach of that change growing ever closer. I am not just talking about the usual economic reasons such as the gross debasement of fiat currencies around the world, or the insane levels of debt created with enthusiastic abandon by our shifty, self-serving politicians or the equally idiotic levels of private debt; neither am I talking about the sheer indifference and/or incompetence of our governing officials and their enthusiastic squandering of the vast taxes confiscated from the peasants who continue to work and create and produce despite all inducements to not do so. I am referring to the fact that Western civilisation is beset with a stupidity that is so rampant, so widespread and so ingrained that it cannot continue for much longer. 'Stupidity' is the opposite of 'smart' and both words can only exist in the context of survival in one form or another. We have drifted so far from survival as a race that we have placed survival itself at risk. How is it possible for people to not understand that rewarding the incompetent by the process of penalising the able will lead to greater incompetence? How is it possible to believe that punishing producers to reward non-producers will do anything but eventually and logically cause a total cessation of production? We live in a world where the mindless trilling of politicians and aging pop singers is regarded as the font of all wisdom; a world where some people really believe that the end is nigh because of global warming and that the government ought to spend itself billions of dollars even further into debt doing something about it… as if an organization that cannot deliver mail properly could save the world from a meteorological catastrophe. We live in a world where less than 50% of the workforce actually create wealth and who subsequently then have to support the more than 50% who do not; where private employers may no longer dictate the terms of employment to their own employees. A world where general practitioners who are trusted with nations' health are so ignorant of real causation, let alone healing, that it is usually safer not to go to them, and where psychiatrists drug human brains in crazed attempts to solve problems of the mind. At the same time as our governments have confiscated most of the financial benefits from the most major technological advance of the human race ever, they have managed via their daft social engineering schemes and outright corruption to simultaneously bankrupt western civilisation in the manner of tin-pot African dictators peeling the skins off banana republics. 'Follow the money' has justifiably become the mantra of the age as it is often the only way to find out what is really going on. To do so shows an alarming discrepancy between appearance and reality. The wide-eyed young street activists campaigning for action against global warming are, in a bizarre fact, the unwitting foot soldiers of the nuclear power industry. The white coated psychiatrists cosily posing as healers of the mind are in reality extraordinarily well paid salesmen for unscrupulous pharmaceutical companies. Pious, tax funded promoters of the war against hunger cover their dirty dollar tracks back to vast agri-business concerns like Monsanto who are the manufacturers and promoters of genetically and atomically modified foods which threaten to monopolise the world's food supply. We live in a world where new legislation banning something or other spews forth every week from our governing elite creating more and more criminals to the point where nothing, and I do mean NOTHING is not covered by some incomprehensibly complex piece of government legislation. The legislation is so obtuse that it is literally not possible to ever comply fully with any certainty even if one was so inclined. I was speaking with a policewoman a few years ago who told me that she tends to only socially mix with other members of the force. The reason? "Everyone always looks so guilty and uncomfortable when I tell them that I am a police officer. Everyone has done something that breaks the law." And that sums up the truth of the matter. Our governments have made criminals of all of us whilst allowing real criminals to roam free and easy on the streets. The constant promises of governments to end corruption and inequality and monopolies inevitably lead to greater corruption and greater inequality and greater monopolies and still people cannot see the obvious which is that government control is the problem, not the solution. It is as though the spirit of Walt Disney rules the western world and is producing a vast Road Runner fantasy whereby society can fall over steep cliffs and then pick itself up, dust itself off and carry on as though nothing had really happened. Well we are heading over a cliff, but society will not be able to pick itself up and dust itself off afterwards. Things are going to change big time when and after we reach the bottom. Survival is based upon making decisions that result in actions conducive to survival. Such decisions can only sanely be made at the level of the individual. Sometimes individuals get it wrong and suffer the consequences, so be it, but with governments taking over the decision making role you can be sure that those wrong calls will become institutionalised; and you can also be sure that there will be an awful lot of wrong calls. That is what has got us to where we are now. Heading down the path that we are currently treading it is a foregone conclusion that both personal and business initiative will cease to exist and that we will be reduced to the intellectual and economic level of Cuba or North Korea. In its ever more obsessive pursuit with saving our bodies our governments are killing our souls and in the process are reducing people to a level of apathy. Most people don't like it, but they don't feel that they can change anything. Is that a definition of apathy, or what leads to apathy? I'm not sure. Domestic turkeys don't have a high IQ and over the generations have had responsibility for their own survival bred out to the point that when born they have to be trained how to drink water by placing sparkling coloured marbles at the bottom of the water bowl for them to play with. Without this aid the poults (young turkeys) die of thirst. There is a similarity between these poults and the citizens of modern societies who rely on and trust governments to such a degree that they feel no personal responsibility for their own survival. To place that much faith in unaccountable governments is a sure recipe for non-survival. Because people start with a higher IQ than turkeys the process takes longer, but the result will eventually be the same. The poults actually have the advantage in that it is in the interests of the farmer to keep the turkeys alive… at least until Christmas. No such incentive exists for the politicians. Why would they really care whether you live or die unless it is some way affects their electoral standing? The survival traits of the human race are being bred out by a lazy illusion of permanent prosperity and safety brought about by wise and benevolent Great Nanny States. It is all madness. Of course it will come to an end. Eventually our apathetic tolerance of such foolishness will give way to anger which will quickly become rage. Change is on the way because we either change or we cease to exist as a civilisation. Our civilisation is like a dule of young turkeys who are in danger of losing their marbles. One day in the not too distant future I believe that gold and silver will be great investments; almost as good as a stockpile of baked beans.
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#51. To: noone222 (#49)
(Edited)
New York is the safest big city in America these days but I grew up in the hell hole period so I am pretty sure I can last an urban wasteland for at least a week. Besides, the Europeans airlifted their citizens out of New Orleans' Katrina nightmare so I am pretty sure since I am also an EU citizen I can get out when the time comes easier than most - Hello Canada! See you in Iceland, folks!
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
I don't understand why people are hostile to the notion that if our money fails - and again I don't doubt the possibility of the dollar melting down - that gold IN THE SHORT TERM gold would not be as liquid as some hope it will be. Maybe a year later when some sort of post Mad Max like world emerges gold may be the currency of choice but during the Mad Max period I don't think gold will be worth much.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Why wait ...
"They say Justice is blind and I agree ... so much so that she hasn't found her way into a courtroom since 1938" noone222 12-17-06
Differences of opinion are okay by me. The only thing that I'm absolutely sure of is that I don't want to be holding a lot of the government's ponzi scheme paper if the music stops. Richard W.
That is why I am saying during the initial mad max period that instead of gold I think stuff like Spam and cigs and bullets will be the currency of choice.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Because I can wait.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
It may never come to that. Germany's Weimar republic didn't go mad max but turned to police state fascism, militarism and war which also seems to be the path we're on. Richard W.
really? what a lovely and thoughtful offer. greek's my favorite food, btw!
Don't forget to bring extra Windex! "The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer." Not all of us live in Survivalist enclaves. noone222... Well, just keep on fuckin up ... it's your choice. Priceless and so appropriate. Thanks. We needed that.
............ The tyrannical and dictatorial political state is the direct offspring of scientific materialism and philosophic secularism. Secularism frees man from ecclesiastical slavery only to betray him into the tyranny of political and economic slavery. Materialism denies God, secularism simply ignores him... Recently, secularism has assumed a more militant attitude, assuming to take the place of the religion whose totalitarian bondage it onetime resisted. Twentieth- century secularism tends to affirm that man does not need God. But beware! this godless philosophy of human society will lead only to unrest, animosity, unhappiness, war, and world-wide disaster. Urantia Book
Pure truth, and the proof is in the puddin !
"They say Justice is blind and I agree ... so much so that she hasn't found her way into a courtroom since 1938" noone222 12-17-06
Keep the gold - trade it for the next fiat currency that comes out. Its a nice jumpstart once the wheels come off. History says "do thou keep some gold on hand just in case."
Press 1 to proceed in English. Press 2 for Deportation.
Pure truth, and the proof is in the puddin ! May I share the context of that quote: 8. SECULAR TOTALITARIANISM But even after materialism and mechanism have been more or less vanquished, the devastating influence of twentieth-century secularism will still blight the spiritual experience of millions of unsuspecting souls. Modern secularism has been fostered by two world-wide influences. The father of secularism was the narrow-minded and godless attitude of nineteenth- and twentieth-century so-called science--atheistic science. The mother of modern secularism was the totalitarian medieval Christian church. Secularism had its inception as a rising protest against the almost complete domination of Western civilization by the institutionalized Christian church. At the time of this revelation, the prevailing intellectual and philosophical climate of both European and American life is decidedly secular--humanistic. For three hundred years Western thinking has been progressively secularized. Religion has become more and more a nominal influence, largely a ritualistic exercise. The majority of professed Christians of Western civilization are unwittingly actual secularists. It required a great power, a mighty influence, to free the thinking and living of the Western peoples from the withering grasp of a totalitarian ecclesiastical domination. Secularism did break the bonds of church control, and now in turn it threatens to establish a new and godless type of mastery over the hearts and minds of modern man. The tyrannical and dictatorial political state is the direct offspring of scientific materialism and philosophic secularism. Secularism no sooner frees man from the domination of the institutionalized church than it sells him into slavish bondage to the totalitarian state. Secularism frees man from ecclesiastical slavery only to betray him into the tyranny of political and economic slavery. Materialism denies God, secularism simply ignores him; at least that was the earlier attitude. More recently, secularism has assumed a more militant attitude, assuming to take the place of the religion whose totalitarian bondage it onetime resisted. Twentieth-century secularism tends to affirm that man does not need God. But beware! this godless philosophy of human society will lead only to unrest, animosity, unhappiness, war, and world-wide disaster. Secularism can never bring peace to mankind. Nothing can take the place of God in human society. But mark you well! do not be quick to surrender the beneficent gains of the secular revolt from ecclesiastical totalitarianism. Western civilization today enjoys many liberties and satisfactions as a result of the secular revolt. The great mistake of secularism was this: In revolting against the almost total control of life by religious authority, and after attaining the liberation from such ecclesiastical tyranny, the secularists went on to institute a revolt against God himself, sometimes tacitly and sometimes openly. To the secularistic revolt you owe the amazing creativity of American industrialism and the unprecedented material progress of Western civilization. And because the secularistic revolt went too far and lost sight of God and true religion, there also followed the unlooked-for harvest of world wars and international unsettledness. It is not necessary to sacrifice faith in God in order to enjoy the blessings of the modern secularistic revolt: tolerance, social service, democratic government, Page 2082 and civil liberties. It was not necessary for the secularists to antagonize true religion in order to promote science and to advance education. But secularism is not the sole parent of all these recent gains in the enlargement of living. Behind the gains of the twentieth century are not only science and secularism but also the unrecognized and unacknowledged spiritual workings of the life and teaching of Jesus of Nazareth. Without God, without religion, scientific secularism can never co-ordinate its forces, harmonize its divergent and rivalrous interests, races, and nationalisms. This secularistic human society, notwithstanding its unparalleled materialistic achievement, is slowly disintegrating. The chief cohesive force resisting this disintegration of antagonism is nationalism. And nationalism is the chief barrier to world peace. The inherent weakness of secularism is that it discards ethics and religion for politics and power. You simply cannot establish the brotherhood of men while ignoring or denying the fatherhood of God. Secular social and political optimism is an illusion. Without God, neither freedom and liberty, nor property and wealth will lead to peace. The complete secularization of science, education, industry, and society can lead only to disaster. During the first third of the twentieth century Urantians killed more human beings than were killed during the whole of the Christian dispensation up to that time. And this is only the beginning of the dire harvest of materialism and secularism; still more terrible destruction is yet to come. 9. CHRISTIANITY'S PROBLEM Do not overlook the value of your spiritual heritage....
............ The tyrannical and dictatorial political state is the direct offspring of scientific materialism and philosophic secularism. Secularism frees man from ecclesiastical slavery only to betray him into the tyranny of political and economic slavery. Materialism denies God, secularism simply ignores him... Recently, secularism has assumed a more militant attitude, assuming to take the place of the religion whose totalitarian bondage it onetime resisted. Twentieth- century secularism tends to affirm that man does not need God. But beware! this godless philosophy of human society will lead only to unrest, animosity, unhappiness, war, and world-wide disaster. Urantia Book
Ciggies are ultimately smoked. Built-in disinflation / supply control. ;)
Support your local gunfighter.
Not if too valuable a means for trade. "in the 1980s, cartons of Kent cigarettes had replaced currency as the preferred medium of exchange in Romania."
Once while incarcerated, I was able to smuggle a carton of smokes into jail. (Crooked guard). The carton of smokes was traded for nearly $1000.00 worth of "stores" ie., cheese, crackers, cokes, candy bars etc., ... I had everyone's combination to their storage locks (about 50) and usage of their lockers to keep all of my treasure in ... considering the circumstances it was a risky investment that paid great dividends ... I didn't smoke em ... I traded em.
"They say Justice is blind and I agree ... so much so that she hasn't found her way into a courtroom since 1938" noone222 12-17-06
or liquor.
Why do you even bother "debating" with this severely uncredible?
Mark "I was real close to Building 7 when it fell down... That didn't sound like just a building falling down to me while I was running away from it. There's a lot of eyewitness testimony down there of hearing explosions. [..] and the whole time you're hearing "boom, boom, boom, boom, boom." I think I know an explosion when I hear it... — Former NYC Police Officer and 9/11 Rescue Worker Craig Bartmer
It is for now UH, NO, it isn't... Gold and silver coin are being minted by the US Govt 5 days a week in New York. THAT'S real money. The paper "currency" which you are claiming to be money is merely a debt note. It isn't issued by the government but instead by the Federal Reserve, which is a private banking institution. It even says on each and every bill - "NOTE". Let's ponder a legal question. EVERY court in the United States will rule that the legal owner of the milk and bread is Destro. He is the issuer of the note. Bill used to be the owner of the bread and milk, but he gave up ownership by accepting the note. Tommy is out of the question altogether - he is merely an agent for the issuer of the note. There's the scam that folks don't see. By using FRNs, we don't actually gain ownership of anything. The Fed owns everything we purchase. We're merely agents acting for the Fed. Sure, we get equitable possession and use of the goods we purchase, but actual ownership is still the Fed's!!! That's what allows them to tax us - we're using their notes - their "system", and they see it as a taxable privilege. Using their "system" is what allows them to confiscate things if we don't pay our tax. It's like being evicted for not paying rent. Since they legally own it anyhow, they have a right to take possession of it from us if they want to. So how does all this relate to gold and silver? How about these 17 little words in Article 1 Section 10 of the US Constitution which have never been repealed: All this is another reason why I like the idea of doing business with small "mom and pop" type businesses as opposed to the corporate giants like Walmart. I've found that you can set up an arrangement with the "small guy" to take gold or silver coin. In fact, many of them seem to like the idea!!! As for the notion of gold or silver being recognizable or trustworthy as to their content - I also think it's best to stick with government minted coinage. It doesn't matter much as to what government. Most people recognize an African Krugerrand, or a Canadian Maple Leaf, or an American Eagle as being authentic. Also gold and silver hold their value. Do you think the price of anything has gone up??? NOPE!!! It's just the purchasing power of the dollar that has gone down. When we went off the gold standard (into the Federal Reserve System) in the early 30's, a $20 gold piece and a $20 bill were the same thing. You could take either one into the tailor and buy a complete head-to-toe suit including hat and shoes for the $20. Today the $20 bill won't even buy the tie, let alone the entire outfit!!! BUT if you had stuck the $20 gold coin in a drawer, it's value today will still buy you the entire head-to-toe suit... OH, BTW - You may be well off right now, but it's a real possibility that one day the playing field will be leveled off. When that happens, your family's Greek island mansion won't be doing you much good. It'll be the ones that know how to hunt a deer, skin and butcher it; build a fire from scratch; put together shelter; travel without having to rely on petroleum AND at the same time having the ability to pack along needed survival necessities; secure safe liquids for drinking (milk the goat perhaps?) - those will be the ones that have an upper hand...
No matter how noble the objectives of a government; if it blurs decency and kindness, cheapens human life, and breeds ill will and suspicion - it is an EVIL government. Eric Hoffer
At least you are consistent. You are still the ignorant schmuck you proved yourself to be in our last conversation! Why on earth would I entrust my financial security with any one else?? When the shit hits the fan, I am the only person I want to have access to my funds!!! Limited world view is what you hold. You are still looking through that toilet paper tube, insisting that it is a telescope!! (Thank you for that analogy Randge!!! It will be the first thing that comes to mind every time I read something stupid from Destro!) You may want to consider running a "get out of dodge scenario" yourself, especially living in such a populated area. In your neck of the woods, it will be difficult protecting your stores. You may want to consider relocating to one for the above mentioned reasons. Not only does the local grocer accept precious metals, so does the local bar, and could easily talk the local gas station into it as well. Plus in the event of emergency relocation (though we plan on sticking it out as long as possible) the horses don't require fuel, and I am sure they would appreciate the lighter burden, and fewer pack animals would attract less attention from the desperate. Your average American will have a hell of a time leaving this country when the shit hits the fan. The restrictions are being put in place as we speak, do you really think they will just let all of the little sheep run in fear and lighten security for us to leave?? I suppose you think other countries will come to our aid and assist American refugees as America has done for so many countries in the past?? Get real, you had best be where you are safe before it gets deep, travel out of the country will be impossible for all but the richest, and travel within the country will be greatly restricted. Maybe a year later when some sort of post Mad Max like world emerges gold may be the currency of choice but during the Mad Max period I don't think gold will be worth much. Once again my friend, you remain true to your character. You have talked yourself full circle until you have supported the very point you were against in the beginning. Reserving part of your assets in precious metals is in my opinion among the wisest of financial moves one could make, especially in this day and age. Not only can it be a quality investment when the economy is stable, but it can be liquid if the need arises, and when the economy turns turtle, eventually, when the new currency is established and the economy running on an even keel again, you have an easier means to reestablish your wealth. I am not saying that stores of other tangibles is a bad thing. Food, munitions, smokes, beer, whatever you may need is a very wise choice. But any money that I will have available will be in precious metals. I hope to do very little trading for goods. Seeing how with a very large garden, and meat animals here on the farm, supplemented by stores of items that we do not raise here, we should need very little in the way of trade goods. Also, in times of economic strife, if we do trade off any of our stores, it will be for gold and silver, or some other form of barter. As we are fairly well prepared, there will be little that we would prefer over the precious metals. Remember, Every time a country has hit hyperinflation, the government has seized funds from anyone transferring too large of an amount. When the government issues a currency, they do own those notes. When life gets tough, they can easily seize them.
"Don't Steal, the government hates competition."
Ping. I thought you may enjoy this thread
"Don't Steal, the government hates competition."
Not really - Survivalist mentality is based on a fantasy that the world will become like the 'Mad Max' movies. In any case I view survivalists like I view the militia movements - dress up fantasists.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Survivalists to me are the ultimate secular material world types - If the antichrist is coming why do these so called faithful feel they need to horde themselves away like cowards and moles and not confront the beast? and become martyrs?
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Yup. In Moscow if you wanted a taxi to stop for you you held up a pack of Marlboro's - they would not stop to pick you up for rubles. No one held up gold coins or diamonds or silver. I have had experience dealing with the melt down of the east European commie bloc countries which provides a real world comparison to such a fiat currency meltdown. I also know of Argentina's recent fiat money meltdown and I know from that example that employees got to be paid in goods like food instead of cash from the factories they took over when their owners abandoned them. So that is why I think that when the end comes for the dollar silver and gold will not be the currency of trade. Sure it will help but few will use it as the medium of trade.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Well, then all I have to say is that I am very glad that I desended from "fantasists" as if they had not been such, they may not have survived the Great Depression, and thus being the case, I would not be in existence to listen to your drivel.
No matter how noble the objectives of a government; if it blurs decency and kindness, cheapens human life, and breeds ill will and suspicion - it is an EVIL government. Eric Hoffer
You won't get any argument from those that failed to survive !
"They say Justice is blind and I agree ... so much so that she hasn't found her way into a courtroom since 1938" noone222 12-17-06
LOL !
There was no militia/survivalist movement during the great depression so what fantasy are you talking about? In fact the last I remember Hoover ordered the army to shoot at the closest thing to a militia movement of that era the so called 'Bonus Marchers'.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
You know very well that 'Survivalist' entails a very specific type - the go to the mountains and live in a bunker with stocks of arms and supplies and wait for the end preparing you shoot at people trying to take your stuff from you. I find these types 'fantasists'.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
OK schmuck, there you go putting words in peoples mouths again, I don't believe that he mentioned anything about a militia mentality during the great depression. Yes there are those who are both survivalist and militia type of people, but there can be a survivalist who wants nothing to do with militia (George Gordon perhaps??) and there are people who have the militia mentality yet have no survival instinct. Granted, those with the militia mentality typically are survivalist as well. Myself, I am a survivalist. I have no desire to go down shooting. On the other hand, if the battle is brought to me, I will defend what is my own and fight along those I love to keep it. This, in my humble opinion, is not a militia mentality, as I do not get off on the idea of having to kill someone, nor am I in any hurry to see it happen. I would far prefer if it never came to that!
"Don't Steal, the government hates competition."
Who knew you knew Yiddish? Here you are putting words in my mouth - or to be correct words to my fingertips: I wrote: There was no militia/survivalist movement during the great depression so what fantasy are you talking about? Since the person above mentioned he was one of those 'fantasists' from the past I enquired which one? Survivalist or militia? That is why that line "/" in "militia/survivalist" implies. Since the only militia that comes to mind that meets that criteria remotely is the 'Bonus Army' which Hoover busted with force of arms. So since that leaves out the militia what was the survivalist aspect that person was talking about in the 30s? With that said I consider the militia movements in America as currently comprised and the survivalist movement (Survivalist meaning people going off to live separate from society waiting for the melt down which they will survive with stocked supplies) as wrong headed fantasists. If you want real world examples of an economic melt down and solutions see what the people of Argentina did - they did not resort to cannibalism like was implied in the 80s Survivalist/Militia movement I grew up around. For some reason the Survivalist literature given to me back in the day always talked about bands of cannibals roaming the country side after the dollar collapsed or a nuclear war went off or Y2K or whatever. At least they don't talk about the Black Helicopter delusions these days nor the fact that the UN is setting up concentration camps in Alaska for the NWO these days. I wonder what other delusion has come down the pike to replace the Black Helicopters?
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
There must be a genetic marker that causes some to maintain a stubborn resistance to tyranny. Many otherwise intelligent people find it necessary to fight a gargantuan enemy with little promise of winning, out of principle. This "type" of person you call a fantasist, I call a loyal citizen. And it's this type of person that gives rise to hope that things can be restored to a tolerable condition, while others accept every incremental increase in governmental intrusion with a shrug, (like you), a non-fantasist. These people you call fantasists have been trying in some cases for 25-30 years to gain the attention of their so-called representatives with little success, yet they remain intent upon doing so without instigating violence. If and when violence breaks out, possibly through a civil war, it won't be the fantasists starting the chaos. The chaos will be the result of apathetic people, fearful of exposing themselves to damage, that have remained idle in the face of ever growing fascism for whatever reason. I think those people that move to the mountains would welcome others of like mind, and reject feeding the apathetic in the event some were able to access the high ground. All of this talk about survivalists would be unnecessary if we could form a unified resistance of millions, if we could get every person that refused to file a tax return for instance, to march on D.C. at one time, knock over a few statues and fill the Washington Mall to over flowing ... others thusfar apathetic would see this and realize that a very large part of the population is fed up and they too would join in. We should make a point of invading D.C. on July 4th with a massive number of people just to see what happens, before we have any reason to head for the mountains. Let's hope that 2007 is the turning point.
"They say Justice is blind and I agree ... so much so that she hasn't found her way into a courtroom since 1938" noone222 12-17-06
No. Survivalists are drop outs aka 'retreaters'* - albeit heavily armed drop outs. Citizens are actively engaged in the affairs of the state - hence the origin of the word 'citizen' being an active member of the 'city'. The word 'idiot' is of Greek origin - it means someone who does not actively engage in the affairs of the city/polis. Survivalists (of the type I described) are thus idiots. PS: Modern members of the militia movement are not 'idiots' (because they are trying to uphold a segment of the constitution and be active citizens via the militia clause of the 2nd Amend.) but I do feel they are unpractical and ineffectual. * author Don Stephens in Washington (author of The Survivor's Primer & Up-dated Retreater's Bibliography, 1976) popularized the term "retreater" to describe the movement, referring to preparations to leave the cities to a rural retreat when society breaks down. For a time in the 1970s, the terms "survivalist" and "retreater" were used interchangeably. The term "retreater" eventually fell out of favor, perhaps because "survivalist" has a more macho connotation.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Those who fail to learn from history will repeat it. The American Army will shoot and club and bayonet those hypothetical marchers - like the American army commanded by Gen. MacArthur did to the so called 'Bonus Army' under Republican president Hoover.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Destro: Goethe once said "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." I believe he was right. A good analogy is a calf turned out in a pasture. He is free to roam and graze as he pleases. BUT how free is he really? Our list of freedoms grows shorter by the day. We can't even go to the grocery store and buy RAW MILK for crying out loud!!! Can't travel or marry without "papers", or have an opinion of "dissent" without the risk of being declared "a terrorist enemy of the state". Your delusional perception of freedom will slowly get you led to slaughter - as at the point you realize it's gotten out of control it will be too late. You (along with Starwind and Nolu_Chan) do not seem to realize that the "root" of evil in this country is the government itself and it's most central components such as taxation, a fiat currency and the resultant ability for inflation, and the military industrial complex. It is fitting to remember the words of Henry David Thoreau: While the likes of you and Starwind advocate things like working within the system to effect change you show your ignorance. (Nolu_Chan doesn't even seem to want to advocate change - govt shill) You are striking at the branches and leaving the root. A hailstorm may rip all the branches off a tree, but if the root is left intact the tree will survive and come back. Benjamin Franklin once said "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Mr Franklin made an important choice in the use of his words - the scornful use of "deserve". "If you love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen." You'd like to think you have common sense, but I'm afraid you're sorely lacking in that department. You think your education gives you an upper hand but it doesn't. As Rudyard Kipling once wrote: So call us "fantasists", "survivalists", "idiots" or whatever you want - it is only those types that share a common vision with the Founding Fathers of true freedom - and stand ready to truly fight the evil our government has become so that you gutless wonders (which I call dropouts) can one day say "we won". Do us a favor - don't include yourselves in that "we" statement...
No matter how noble the objectives of a government; if it blurs decency and kindness, cheapens human life, and breeds ill will and suspicion - it is an EVIL government. Eric Hoffer
Nobody will be getting back up after that KO. ;)
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act - - George Orwell You are the language expert, you should know that schmuck is in the English dictionary and does have English usage. I do believe that we have discussed before that I prefer to use the modern definitions of the English language. Fair is fair, after all, you choose to define words for your own purpose, so I shall be allowed to follow in suit. The main difference is that the definitions that I choose to use are all readily accessible in any English dictionary. What was the survivalist mentality??? Hmm, let me see here, if trying to figure out how to feed your family is not a survivalist mentality, then I guess I have been incorrect. My mistake is that either you are even more ignorant than I gave you credit for, or those who survived were just lucky. But I am sure that if another "Great Depression" or any comparable event were to hit our society today, the mortality rate would be astonishing. Very few within the cities would have a clue how to feed themselves, and the percentages would only be slightly higher in the country. But according to you, this has nothing to do with survival. Odd, I did not know that you had to "drop-out" of society to have the mentality and ability to survive if and when the shit hits the fan. Damn, guess I have had it wrong all along. If disaster hit today I would be doomed. Here on the farm we can produce all of our own food, have horses for transportation, and have stores for things that we cannot raise But I am doomed Destro said so, because I am an active member of my community, I AM DOOMED!!! I guess I had best inform the local business owners that accept silver that it will do them no good to be prepared, because they are active members in our society, They are doomed as well.
"Don't Steal, the government hates competition."
Was that before or after the appearance of the term "white flight"?
ARAGORN: Murderers... traitors! You would call upon them to fight? They believe in nothing! They answer to no one! Actually the best way to kill a tree is girdling.
ARAGORN: Murderers... traitors! You would call upon them to fight? They believe in nothing! They answer to no one! From the link: If the food-transporting phloem is severed all the way around the tree (a process called "girdling"), food cannot be carried to the roots and they will eventually die. As the roots die, so does the tree.... ...Some trees are prolific sprouters and produce adventitious twigs near an injury. If you don't remove or kill the entire root, you just may have to control these sprouts. Sprouts coming out below the girdle must be removed as they will continue the process of feeding the roots if left to grow. No matter how you look at it - if you don't stop the root, you ain't done shit.
No matter how noble the objectives of a government; if it blurs decency and kindness, cheapens human life, and breeds ill will and suspicion - it is an EVIL government. Eric Hoffer
Retreating (as Survivalists were first called retreaters) is not 'resistance to tyranny' - it is not even Ghandi like non violent resistance. Survivalists are drop outs - which was a popular view on both the left and the right in the late 60s and through the 70s - the Survivalists were just late to the game - adopting the left hippie mantra of 'tune in and drop out' and the concept of the hippie commune but with guns and no peace and love BS. But don't claim a Survivalist is a good citizen which was what I was responding to - they may be good people - but they are not active citizens.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
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#52. To: Arete (#50)
Survival happens in real time every damned day kid, you ought to know that. If you wait for the PTB to ring a bell for you, you are screwed.
#53. To: Destro (#51)
Besides, the Europeans airlifted their citizens out of New Orleans' Katrina nightmare so I am pretty sure since I am also an EU citizen I can get out when the time comes easier than most
#54. To: Destro (#52)
Maybe a year later when some sort of post Mad Max like world emerges gold may be the currency of choice but during the Mad Max period I don't think gold will be worth much.
#55. To: Arete (#54)
Differences of opinion are okay by me. The only thing that I'm absolutely sure of is that I don't want to be holding a lot of the government's ponzi scheme paper if the music stops.
#56. To: noone222 (#53)
Why wait ...
#57. To: Destro (#55)
initial mad max period
#58. To: Destro (#48)
#59. To: christine, Destro (#58)
(My Big Fat Greek Wedding)
---Henry Kissinger, New York Times, October 28, 1973
#60. To: noone222 (#34)
Destro...
#61. To: wakeup (#60)
Twentieth- century secularism tends to affirm that man does not need God. But beware! this godless philosophy of human society will lead only to unrest, animosity, unhappiness, war, and world-wide disaster.
#62. To: Destro (#45)
I am not talking about investments - only gold as survival money.
#63. To: noone222 (#61)
(Edited)
"Twentieth- century secularism tends to affirm that man does not need God. But beware! this godless philosophy of human society will lead only to unrest, animosity, unhappiness, war, and world-wide disaster."
#64. To: DeaconBenjamin (#37)
I wonder -- were the absurdly high taxes imposed on cigarettes to reduce their attractiveness as a substitute currency? This utilization of cigarettes was evidently common in some Soviet bloc nations towards the end.
#65. To: Tauzero (#64)
Ciggies are ultimately smoked. Built-in disinflation / supply control. ;)
#66. To: DeaconBenjamin (#65)
"in the 1980s, cartons of Kent cigarettes had replaced currency as the preferred medium of exchange in Romania."
#67. To: Destro (#15)
or the guy who shows up with canned goods and cigarettes or bullets
#68. To: christine, all (#4)
#69. To: Destro, Christine, All (#30)
You think paper is money?
You write a note to Bill (your local grocer) saying "Hey Bill, please let Tommy have a gallon of milk and a loaf of bread and I'll pay you for the milk and bread the next time I'm in the store". You sign it Destro.
You give the note to Tommy and he goes to the store. Bill knows you're an honorable guy so he accepts the note and gives the milk and bread to Tommy. Tommy now has possession of the goods. At this moment in time, who is the legal owner of the milk and bread?
Is it:
(A)Bill the grocer (since he still hasn't been paid for it)
(B)Tommy (since he is the one in possession of it) or
(C)Destro (since he is the one that wrote and signed the note)
No State shall make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts
Or later on when we went off the silver standard - you could take a $1 Silver Certificate to the bank and trade it in for a $1 silver coin. OR you could take either one to the gas station and buy 4 gallons of gas with it. Today you take a $1 bill to the gas station and all you'll get is a little over a third of a gallon of gas; BUT if you take the value of that silver dollar into the station you can buy nearly 5 gallons. If anything the gas has gotten cheaper!!! But those damned FRNs have sure devalued a bunch!!!
#70. To: christine (#0)
(Edited)
Selling gold and silver to people as a protection from currency crash is the act of fools or scam artists.
It does not matter because gold and silver - unless you can store and protect them at home
Why? Are you afraid of other opinions? Freeper bot mentality on display - hating to hear contradictory information - limited world view, etc.
Running every 'get out of Dodge' scenario still shows gold to be problematic in terms of carrying wealth in this day and age. You can carry it, sure but will the people you meet along this hypothetical Apocalypse road trade for it?
Not all of us live in Survivalist enclaves.
You and your family are welcomed to stay in my family's island villa (as small as it is) on the Greek isles anytime whenthe end for America comes.
that gold IN THE SHORT TERM gold would not be as liquid as some hope it will be.
#71. To: Randge (#70)
#72. To: ladybug (#70)
You may want to consider relocating to one for the above mentioned reasons.
#73. To: noone222, wakeup (#61)
#74. To: DeaconBenjamin, Tauzero, BTP Holdings, Sonovademocrat, noone222, christine (#65)
"in the 1980s, cartons of Kent cigarettes had replaced currency as the preferred medium of exchange in Romania."
#75. To: Destro (#72)
In any case I view survivalists like I view the militia movements - dress up fantasists.
#76. To: innieway, Destro (#75)
In any case I view survivalists like I view the militia movements - dress up fantasists.
#77. To: noone222 (#76)
You won't get any argument from those that failed to survive !
#78. To: innieway (#75)
Well, then all I have to say is that I am very glad that I desended from "fantasists" as if they had not been such, they may not have survived the Great Depression, and thus being the case, I would not be in existence to listen to your drivel.
#79. To: noone222, innieway, christine (#76)
#80. To: Destro (#78)
There was no militia/survivalist movement during the great depression so what fantasy are you talking about?
#81. To: ladybug (#80)
(Edited)
OK schmuck, there you go putting words in peoples mouths again, I don't believe that he mentioned anything about a militia mentality during the great depression.
#82. To: Destro (#79)
You know very well that 'Survivalist' entails a very specific type - the go to the mountains and live in a bunker with stocks of arms and supplies and wait for the end preparing you shoot at people trying to take your stuff from you.
#83. To: noone222 (#82)
(Edited)
There must be a genetic marker that causes some to maintain a stubborn resistance to tyranny. Many otherwise intelligent people find it necessary to fight a gargantuan enemy with little promise of winning, out of principle. This "type" of person you call a fantasist, I call a loyal citizen.
#84. To: noone222 (#82)
We should make a point of invading D.C. on July 4th with a massive number of people just to see what happens
#85. To: Destro, Noone222, Christine, Lodwick, BTP Holdings, Indie TX, HOUNDDAWG, wakeup, All (#83)
(Edited)
Noone222:
There must be a genetic marker that causes some to maintain a stubborn resistance to tyranny. Many otherwise intelligent people find it necessary to fight a gargantuan enemy with little promise of winning, out of principle. This "type" of person you call a fantasist, I call a loyal citizen.
No. Survivalists are drop outs
(1) He does have his boundaries which he cannot overstep.
(2) He is just biding his time to be put in line for a bullet to the head by his master.
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root."
He was not commenting on mere facts, nor of natural laws, but on the caliber of such men; that they would in so doing also throw away the liberty of their fellow man, and thus no longer merited the benefits of free men.
This is the category in which YOU (along with Starwind and Nolu_Chan) fall - that in your complicity towards government's slow but ever-growing intrusions on our liberties and God-given rights, you no longer merit the benefits of free men; which brings up a quote by Samuel Adams which seems very fitting for you, Starwind, and Nolu_Chan:
" Common sense is very uncommon. Common sense is in spite of, not as a result of education. Common sense is instinct, and enough is genius. Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he need more of it than he already has. Common sense is the knack of seeing things as they are, and doing things as they ought to be done."
#86. To: innieway (#85)
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition
In a CorporoFascist capitalist society, there is no money in peace, freedom, or a healthy population, and therefore, no incentive to achieve these - - IndieTX
#87. To: Destro (#81)
Who knew you knew Yiddish?
So since that leaves out the militia what was the survivalist aspect that person was talking about in the 30s?
No. Survivalists are drop outs aka 'retreaters'* - albeit heavily armed drop outs. Citizens are actively engaged in the affairs of the state - hence the origin of the word 'citizen' being an active member of the 'city'.
#88. To: Destro (#83)
For a time in the 1970s, the terms "survivalist" and "retreater" were used interchangeably.
ELROND: They will answer to the King of Gondor!
#89. To: innieway, IndieTX, BTP Holdings (#85)
It is fitting to remember the words of Henry David Thoreau: "There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root."
ELROND: They will answer to the King of Gondor!
#90. To: Tauzero (#89)
#91. To: innieway, Noone222, Christine, Lodwick, BTP Holdings, Indie TX, HOUNDDAWG, wakeup, All (#85)
resistance to tyranny
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