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Title: Domestic Turkeys
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URL Source: http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_05/mathid122706.html
Published: Dec 29, 2006
Author: Sam Mathid
Post Date: 2006-12-29 11:21:09 by christine
Keywords: None
Views: 3999
Comments: 295
I buy gold (and silver) for one reason. That reason is that things are about to change. That was my conclusion in June of 2000 and I sense the approach of that change growing ever closer. I am not just talking about the usual economic reasons such as the gross debasement of fiat currencies around the world, or the insane levels of debt created with enthusiastic abandon by our shifty, self-serving politicians or the equally idiotic levels of private debt; neither am I talking about the sheer indifference and/or incompetence of our governing officials and their enthusiastic squandering of the vast taxes confiscated from the peasants who continue to work and create and produce despite all inducements to not do so. I am referring to the fact that Western civilisation is beset with a stupidity that is so rampant, so widespread and so ingrained that it cannot continue for much longer. 'Stupidity' is the opposite of 'smart' and both words can only exist in the context of survival in one form or another. We have drifted so far from survival as a race that we have placed survival itself at risk. How is it possible for people to not understand that rewarding the incompetent by the process of penalising the able will lead to greater incompetence? How is it possible to believe that punishing producers to reward non-producers will do anything but eventually and logically cause a total cessation of production? We live in a world where the mindless trilling of politicians and aging pop singers is regarded as the font of all wisdom; a world where some people really believe that the end is nigh because of global warming and that the government ought to spend itself billions of dollars even further into debt doing something about it… as if an organization that cannot deliver mail properly could save the world from a meteorological catastrophe. We live in a world where less than 50% of the workforce actually create wealth and who subsequently then have to support the more than 50% who do not; where private employers may no longer dictate the terms of employment to their own employees. A world where general practitioners who are trusted with nations' health are so ignorant of real causation, let alone healing, that it is usually safer not to go to them, and where psychiatrists drug human brains in crazed attempts to solve problems of the mind. At the same time as our governments have confiscated most of the financial benefits from the most major technological advance of the human race ever, they have managed via their daft social engineering schemes and outright corruption to simultaneously bankrupt western civilisation in the manner of tin-pot African dictators peeling the skins off banana republics. 'Follow the money' has justifiably become the mantra of the age as it is often the only way to find out what is really going on. To do so shows an alarming discrepancy between appearance and reality. The wide-eyed young street activists campaigning for action against global warming are, in a bizarre fact, the unwitting foot soldiers of the nuclear power industry. The white coated psychiatrists cosily posing as healers of the mind are in reality extraordinarily well paid salesmen for unscrupulous pharmaceutical companies. Pious, tax funded promoters of the war against hunger cover their dirty dollar tracks back to vast agri-business concerns like Monsanto who are the manufacturers and promoters of genetically and atomically modified foods which threaten to monopolise the world's food supply. We live in a world where new legislation banning something or other spews forth every week from our governing elite creating more and more criminals to the point where nothing, and I do mean NOTHING is not covered by some incomprehensibly complex piece of government legislation. The legislation is so obtuse that it is literally not possible to ever comply fully with any certainty even if one was so inclined. I was speaking with a policewoman a few years ago who told me that she tends to only socially mix with other members of the force. The reason? "Everyone always looks so guilty and uncomfortable when I tell them that I am a police officer. Everyone has done something that breaks the law." And that sums up the truth of the matter. Our governments have made criminals of all of us whilst allowing real criminals to roam free and easy on the streets. The constant promises of governments to end corruption and inequality and monopolies inevitably lead to greater corruption and greater inequality and greater monopolies and still people cannot see the obvious which is that government control is the problem, not the solution. It is as though the spirit of Walt Disney rules the western world and is producing a vast Road Runner fantasy whereby society can fall over steep cliffs and then pick itself up, dust itself off and carry on as though nothing had really happened. Well we are heading over a cliff, but society will not be able to pick itself up and dust itself off afterwards. Things are going to change big time when and after we reach the bottom. Survival is based upon making decisions that result in actions conducive to survival. Such decisions can only sanely be made at the level of the individual. Sometimes individuals get it wrong and suffer the consequences, so be it, but with governments taking over the decision making role you can be sure that those wrong calls will become institutionalised; and you can also be sure that there will be an awful lot of wrong calls. That is what has got us to where we are now. Heading down the path that we are currently treading it is a foregone conclusion that both personal and business initiative will cease to exist and that we will be reduced to the intellectual and economic level of Cuba or North Korea. In its ever more obsessive pursuit with saving our bodies our governments are killing our souls and in the process are reducing people to a level of apathy. Most people don't like it, but they don't feel that they can change anything. Is that a definition of apathy, or what leads to apathy? I'm not sure. Domestic turkeys don't have a high IQ and over the generations have had responsibility for their own survival bred out to the point that when born they have to be trained how to drink water by placing sparkling coloured marbles at the bottom of the water bowl for them to play with. Without this aid the poults (young turkeys) die of thirst. There is a similarity between these poults and the citizens of modern societies who rely on and trust governments to such a degree that they feel no personal responsibility for their own survival. To place that much faith in unaccountable governments is a sure recipe for non-survival. Because people start with a higher IQ than turkeys the process takes longer, but the result will eventually be the same. The poults actually have the advantage in that it is in the interests of the farmer to keep the turkeys alive… at least until Christmas. No such incentive exists for the politicians. Why would they really care whether you live or die unless it is some way affects their electoral standing? The survival traits of the human race are being bred out by a lazy illusion of permanent prosperity and safety brought about by wise and benevolent Great Nanny States. It is all madness. Of course it will come to an end. Eventually our apathetic tolerance of such foolishness will give way to anger which will quickly become rage. Change is on the way because we either change or we cease to exist as a civilisation. Our civilisation is like a dule of young turkeys who are in danger of losing their marbles. One day in the not too distant future I believe that gold and silver will be great investments; almost as good as a stockpile of baked beans.
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#1. To: christine (#0)
His supermarket and gas station accept gold and silver bars? Selling gold and silver to people as a protection from currency crash is the act of fools or scam artists.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
I was really ripped off a few years ago when I was hustled into buying gold at $300 and silver for $5.50. With fools and scam artists like that, I don't need an investment adviser. I guess it was just a coincidence that the value of the dollar has gone down while the value of silver and gold have gone up.
............ The tyrannical and dictatorial political state is the direct offspring of scientific materialism and philosophic secularism. Secularism frees man from ecclesiastical slavery only to betray him into the tyranny of political and economic slavery. Materialism denies God, secularism simply ignores him... Recently, secularism has assumed a more militant attitude, assuming to take the place of the religion whose totalitarian bondage it onetime resisted. Twentieth- century secularism tends to affirm that man does not need God. But beware! this godless philosophy of human society will lead only to unrest, animosity, unhappiness, war, and world-wide disaster. Urantia Book
Selling gold and silver to people as a protection from currency crash is the act of fools or scam artists. boy, are you clueless. with everything he said in this article and that's what you highlight?
He'll pay with wheel barrels of Frauds! ($)
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten daughter so that we may worship The Goddess, who we call SHE WHO MUST BE OBEYED!"
It does not matter because gold and silver - unless you can store and protect them at home - costs a lot of money to store in any quantity that you can live on in a financial crash (I am not talking commodity speculation for profit). Another downside is that neither gold nor silver are liquid - to get them to buy you anything you need to convert it to the so called worthless cash again. If there was a total melt down in our money economy then barter would be the way the system would work and you would be better off stocking cigarettes and bullets to trade for food than gold.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
It does not matter because gold and silver - unless you can store and protect them at home - costs a lot of money to store in any quantity that you can live on in a financial crash (I am not talking commodity speculation for profit). Another downside is that neither gold nor silver are liquid - to get them to buy you anything you need to convert it to the so called worthless cash again. If there was a total melt down in our money economy then barter would be the way the system would work and you would be better off stocking cigarettes and bullets to trade for canned food goods, etc than gold bars or coins.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
That's why the filter is active. ;0)
"It is the old practice of despots to use a part of the people to keep the rest in order; and those who have once got an ascendency and possessed themselves of all the resources of the nation, their revenues and offices, have immense means for retaining their advantages." Thomas Jefferson to John Taylor, 1798
Ping to the unUsual Suspects Richard W.
Why? Are you afraid of other opinions? Freeper bot mentality on display - hating to hear contradictory information - limited world view, etc.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Not so, folks will trade what you need for gold and silver. It is a valuable commodity just like a can of beans. There is no problem with storage of gold and silver. My weapons and ammo take up more space. My water purifier and stored water take up more space. Hell, my survival toilet paper takes up more space.
............ The tyrannical and dictatorial political state is the direct offspring of scientific materialism and philosophic secularism. Secularism frees man from ecclesiastical slavery only to betray him into the tyranny of political and economic slavery. Materialism denies God, secularism simply ignores him... Recently, secularism has assumed a more militant attitude, assuming to take the place of the religion whose totalitarian bondage it onetime resisted. Twentieth- century secularism tends to affirm that man does not need God. But beware! this godless philosophy of human society will lead only to unrest, animosity, unhappiness, war, and world-wide disaster. Urantia Book
Doubt it unless you happen to have a jeweler on hand that can determine that the gold and silver being sold to you is of the purity claimed. If the worst case scenario envisioned by the gold and silver end times enthusiasts pans out you are better off stocking up on bullets or cigarettes or canned goods to trade. I grew up in the 70s fever of the survivalists - I understand it is a religous like mindset for many as it was when I was a babe.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
gold and silver are not liquid? worldwide, they are HISTORICALLY the most liquid items! liquidity is the lowest spread between the ask and the offer price. it is not how easily it is convertible to paper currency since ALL paper currencies fail over time. you turkey, you've lost your marbles !
I dare you to walk into any store in the Western world and use a gold bar or coin to purchase items - double dare you - that is what liquid means to me. I have never seen in my life a store with a gold scale/gold authenticator next to the cash register - except at a jewelers.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
OK lets say that paper currencies fail - you are telling me that you can then break out a gold coin or bar and use that to get a full tank of gass from the Mexican or Pakistani or good 'ol boy operating the gas station? Like they will know that the gold you are offering is not fake? Who would have more luck getting a full tank of gas in the most catastrophic scenario? The guy who shows up with a cold coin for a full gas tank or the guy who shows up with canned goods and cigarettes or bullets to trade for the gas? Be honest.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
"Doubt it unless you happen to have a jeweler on hand that can determine that the gold and silver being sold to you is of the purity claimed." No need, value is determined by the buyer and seller during the trade. No need for the "expert" opinion. "If the worst case scenario envisioned by the gold and silver end times enthusiasts pans out you are better off stocking up on bullets or cigarettes or canned goods to trade." Nope, valuable metals have a place in any survivalist inventory. "I grew up in the 70s fever of the survivalists..." And you weren't paying much attention, I see. "I understand it is a religous like mindset for many as it was when I was a babe." Ahhh, another benefit of religious behavior.
............ The tyrannical and dictatorial political state is the direct offspring of scientific materialism and philosophic secularism. Secularism frees man from ecclesiastical slavery only to betray him into the tyranny of political and economic slavery. Materialism denies God, secularism simply ignores him... Recently, secularism has assumed a more militant attitude, assuming to take the place of the religion whose totalitarian bondage it onetime resisted. Twentieth- century secularism tends to affirm that man does not need God. But beware! this godless philosophy of human society will lead only to unrest, animosity, unhappiness, war, and world-wide disaster. Urantia Book
No need, value is determined by the buyer and seller during the trade. No need for the "expert" opinion. Most likely the guy you offer the gold to would doubt it is real and would not be able to figure it out one way or another and ask for something else that you have to trade. OK, lets say that paper currencies fail (and by the way I am not doubting this is possible - just doubting that gold hoarding would save you) - you are telling me that you can then break out a gold coin or bar and use that to get a full tank of gass from the Mexican or Pakistani or good 'ol boy operating the gas station? Like they will know that the gold you are offering is not fake? Who would have more luck getting a full tank of gas in the most catastrophic scenario? The guy who shows up with a gold coin for a full gas tank or the guy who shows up with canned goods and cigarettes or bullets to trade for the gas? Be honest.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
I don't think that there has to be any one particular method of protecting yourself against the government's currency debasement. Buy beans, guns, booze, gold/silver or toilet paper. It is an individual decision. However, if the need ever arises for you to phyically move, you probably won't need a U-Haul truck for your gold and silver while 30 cases of Spam could be a problem. Richard W.
"Most likely the guy you offer the gold to would doubt it is real and would not be able to figure it out one way or another and ask for something else that you have to trade." Never happen. He will have learned the value of lots of items as they are offered to him in trade. Come on guy, merchants will catch on quick. This is a non-issue. "OK, lets say that paper currencies fail (and by the way I am not doubting this is possible - just doubting that gold hoarding would save you) - you are telling me that you can then break out a gold coin or bar and use that to get a full tank of gass from the Mexican or Pakistani or good 'ol boy operating the gas station?" Yep, though I would probably only need a hand full of junk silver coins. "Like they will know that the gold you are offering is not fake?" Yep, I can, why can't they learn. Hell, maybe you could too. "Who would have more luck getting a full tank of gas in the most catastrophic scenario? The guy who shows up with a cold coin for a full gas tank or the guy who shows up with canned goods and cigarettes or bullets to trade for the gas?" Most likely, when I show up with the convenient, small valuable little coins, he will smile at me with a thank you attitude as he looks back to his cases of corn and beans that he has accumulated from those folks who have no metal to trade. Actually, a case could be made that he may give you even more gas than you expect because he recognizes the benefit of compact, high value coins. Dude, there was a day, not too many years ago that folks routinely took silver coins for a little gas. duh "Be honest." Watch your mouth.
............ The tyrannical and dictatorial political state is the direct offspring of scientific materialism and philosophic secularism. Secularism frees man from ecclesiastical slavery only to betray him into the tyranny of political and economic slavery. Materialism denies God, secularism simply ignores him... Recently, secularism has assumed a more militant attitude, assuming to take the place of the religion whose totalitarian bondage it onetime resisted. Twentieth- century secularism tends to affirm that man does not need God. But beware! this godless philosophy of human society will lead only to unrest, animosity, unhappiness, war, and world-wide disaster. Urantia Book
My grocer takes silver ... pays spot/oz bullion or spot plus the premium on silver dollars.
"They say Justice is blind and I agree ... so much so that she hasn't found her way into a courtroom since 1938" noone222 12-17-06
We as a society really need to wean ourselves from their monetary system if we want to rid ourselves of the parasitic effects of a [credit / debt] economic system. Otherwise ... gobble, gobble, gobble marble heads !
"They say Justice is blind and I agree ... so much so that she hasn't found her way into a courtroom since 1938" noone222 12-17-06
Let's clear something up. You don't store bullion or ingots. You buy bags of dirty, citculated dimes, quarters and dollars and a few gold coins for major purchases and believe me, it'll be business as usual. Hell, in the darkest Phillipines island jungle a US Silver Dollar is recognized and can be traded. The coinage has value apart from the silver content. Only an idiot would trade a bar of suspect metal for anything of value, and it certainly isn't worth much when buying milk or scallions. And, 10% of your wealth converted to silver coins now will protect your entire fortune when the other 90% is taken in the collapse.
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten daughter so that we may worship The Goddess, who we call SHE WHO MUST BE OBEYED!"
What we have here is a religious discussion. Those who believe in precious metals versus those who don't. I'll listen to your arguments with an open mind until you ridicule those who believe as I do as being fools and scam artists. Then I realize you really don't have anything to say that interests me. Incidentally, I think ridiculing those that believe in PMs is more of a freeper bot characteristic.
Running every 'get out of Dodge' scenario still shows gold to be problematic in terms of carrying wealth in this day and age. You can carry it, sure but will the people you meet along this hypothetical Apocalypse road trade for it?
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
You think paper is money?
"We become what we behold. We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." -- Marshall McLuhan, after Alexander Pope and William Blake.
you are assuming a lot. Ass-u-me.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Not all of us live in Survivalist enclaves.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
well, personally, i'd rather have it than not..same with my lead.
So the only opinion you will hear is one that does not offend your sensibilities? Anyone who filters based on the fact he was made uncomfortable by hearing a negative opinion needs to be slammed.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
It is for now - and when it is not worth anything - I think barter for goods like Spam will dominate over any trade in gold or silver.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
History says they will. Richard W.
Incidentally, I think ridiculing those that believe in PMs is more of a freeper bot characteristic. Destro just don't get it. One of his favorite ploys is to try to reverse the situation and accuse others of what he is doing himself. That, indeed, is a freeper bot characteristic, and the mark of a disinfo artist. That is why we call him Disinfo Destro.
"It is the old practice of despots to use a part of the people to keep the rest in order; and those who have once got an ascendency and possessed themselves of all the resources of the nation, their revenues and offices, have immense means for retaining their advantages." Thomas Jefferson to John Taylor, 1798
You need to spend less time playing with your GI Joe toys and more time studying reading comprehension.
Well, just keep on fuckin up ... it's your choice.
"They say Justice is blind and I agree ... so much so that she hasn't found her way into a courtroom since 1938" noone222 12-17-06
lol
pesky history !
I wonder -- were the absurdly high taxes imposed on cigarettes to reduce their attractiveness as a substitute currency? This utilization of cigarettes was evidently common in some Soviet bloc nations towards the end.
The disinfo is on your part - I am talking about forum moderators operating censorship and bannings to control discussions and opinions. I deplore all such censorships and I get a kick out of reading opinions different from mine - unlike you 'bots.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
You need to spend less time playing with your GI Joe toys and more time studying reading comprehension. Destro is another keyboard commando. I seriously doubt he could hold his own, one-on-one, with anyone who has been in the trenches. Been there, done that. And kicked enough ass to know the difference. ;0)
"It is the old practice of despots to use a part of the people to keep the rest in order; and those who have once got an ascendency and possessed themselves of all the resources of the nation, their revenues and offices, have immense means for retaining their advantages." Thomas Jefferson to John Taylor, 1798
...Whatever
I have lived through 2 New York black outs - a European right wing dictatorship, 9/11 a Balkan war with jihadis as well as a lifetime on the New York Subway - I am pretty sure I can outlive anything you guys have gone through from living in your hole in the wall communes.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
LONDON (Reuters) - Precious metals provided among the heftiest returns of any asset class in 2006, and prices were expected to stay strong in the new year as investors continue pumping money into the sector through futures and new commodity-backed securities, analysts said. Gold hit a 26-year high of $730 an ounce in May, which put it up 41 percent for the year, before it retreated. But as 2006 drew to a close, gold was still up about 23 percent from its final price in 2005 of $517.20 per ounce. Precious metals top performers in 2006 Richard W.
My expectations relative to your I.Q. are lowered each time you post. as well as a lifetime on the New York Subway - I knew you were a troll.
"They say Justice is blind and I agree ... so much so that she hasn't found her way into a courtroom since 1938" noone222 12-17-06
Trenches? I am not old enough to have been in Ypres - but I was the only white kid ina black school once and in a street fight I like to think I can hold my own. If you mean military? I am not a militarist - I would gut the Pentagon budget and send most Americans in uniform home. I did do a jig when the Serbs knocked the stealth fighter out if the air! It was great to see it - also I enjoyed 'being on vacation in the Balkans' when the Serbs tied UN blue helmets to bridges and dared the American airforce to knock them out now.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
I am not talking about investments - only gold as survival money.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
I am sure life out in the sticks is fine too.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
i don't live in a commune. my family and i are fully ensconced in austin, texas suburbia. wish we had a hole in the wall. ;)
You and your family are welcomed to stay in my family's island villa (as small as it is) on the Greek isles anytime whenthe end for America comes.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Me too ! I know all of my neighbors, they're mostly white (95%), there's no crime, no jihadis, and best of all no friggin New Yorkers.
"They say Justice is blind and I agree ... so much so that she hasn't found her way into a courtroom since 1938" noone222 12-17-06
Survival happens in real time every damned day kid, you ought to know that. If you wait for the PTB to ring a bell for you, you are screwed. Richard W.
New York is the safest big city in America these days but I grew up in the hell hole period so I am pretty sure I can last an urban wasteland for at least a week. Besides, the Europeans airlifted their citizens out of New Orleans' Katrina nightmare so I am pretty sure since I am also an EU citizen I can get out when the time comes easier than most - Hello Canada! See you in Iceland, folks!
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
I don't understand why people are hostile to the notion that if our money fails - and again I don't doubt the possibility of the dollar melting down - that gold IN THE SHORT TERM gold would not be as liquid as some hope it will be. Maybe a year later when some sort of post Mad Max like world emerges gold may be the currency of choice but during the Mad Max period I don't think gold will be worth much.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Why wait ...
"They say Justice is blind and I agree ... so much so that she hasn't found her way into a courtroom since 1938" noone222 12-17-06
Differences of opinion are okay by me. The only thing that I'm absolutely sure of is that I don't want to be holding a lot of the government's ponzi scheme paper if the music stops. Richard W.
That is why I am saying during the initial mad max period that instead of gold I think stuff like Spam and cigs and bullets will be the currency of choice.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Because I can wait.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
It may never come to that. Germany's Weimar republic didn't go mad max but turned to police state fascism, militarism and war which also seems to be the path we're on. Richard W.
really? what a lovely and thoughtful offer. greek's my favorite food, btw!
Don't forget to bring extra Windex! "The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer." Not all of us live in Survivalist enclaves. noone222... Well, just keep on fuckin up ... it's your choice. Priceless and so appropriate. Thanks. We needed that.
............ The tyrannical and dictatorial political state is the direct offspring of scientific materialism and philosophic secularism. Secularism frees man from ecclesiastical slavery only to betray him into the tyranny of political and economic slavery. Materialism denies God, secularism simply ignores him... Recently, secularism has assumed a more militant attitude, assuming to take the place of the religion whose totalitarian bondage it onetime resisted. Twentieth- century secularism tends to affirm that man does not need God. But beware! this godless philosophy of human society will lead only to unrest, animosity, unhappiness, war, and world-wide disaster. Urantia Book
Pure truth, and the proof is in the puddin !
"They say Justice is blind and I agree ... so much so that she hasn't found her way into a courtroom since 1938" noone222 12-17-06
Keep the gold - trade it for the next fiat currency that comes out. Its a nice jumpstart once the wheels come off. History says "do thou keep some gold on hand just in case."
Press 1 to proceed in English. Press 2 for Deportation.
Pure truth, and the proof is in the puddin ! May I share the context of that quote: 8. SECULAR TOTALITARIANISM But even after materialism and mechanism have been more or less vanquished, the devastating influence of twentieth-century secularism will still blight the spiritual experience of millions of unsuspecting souls. Modern secularism has been fostered by two world-wide influences. The father of secularism was the narrow-minded and godless attitude of nineteenth- and twentieth-century so-called science--atheistic science. The mother of modern secularism was the totalitarian medieval Christian church. Secularism had its inception as a rising protest against the almost complete domination of Western civilization by the institutionalized Christian church. At the time of this revelation, the prevailing intellectual and philosophical climate of both European and American life is decidedly secular--humanistic. For three hundred years Western thinking has been progressively secularized. Religion has become more and more a nominal influence, largely a ritualistic exercise. The majority of professed Christians of Western civilization are unwittingly actual secularists. It required a great power, a mighty influence, to free the thinking and living of the Western peoples from the withering grasp of a totalitarian ecclesiastical domination. Secularism did break the bonds of church control, and now in turn it threatens to establish a new and godless type of mastery over the hearts and minds of modern man. The tyrannical and dictatorial political state is the direct offspring of scientific materialism and philosophic secularism. Secularism no sooner frees man from the domination of the institutionalized church than it sells him into slavish bondage to the totalitarian state. Secularism frees man from ecclesiastical slavery only to betray him into the tyranny of political and economic slavery. Materialism denies God, secularism simply ignores him; at least that was the earlier attitude. More recently, secularism has assumed a more militant attitude, assuming to take the place of the religion whose totalitarian bondage it onetime resisted. Twentieth-century secularism tends to affirm that man does not need God. But beware! this godless philosophy of human society will lead only to unrest, animosity, unhappiness, war, and world-wide disaster. Secularism can never bring peace to mankind. Nothing can take the place of God in human society. But mark you well! do not be quick to surrender the beneficent gains of the secular revolt from ecclesiastical totalitarianism. Western civilization today enjoys many liberties and satisfactions as a result of the secular revolt. The great mistake of secularism was this: In revolting against the almost total control of life by religious authority, and after attaining the liberation from such ecclesiastical tyranny, the secularists went on to institute a revolt against God himself, sometimes tacitly and sometimes openly. To the secularistic revolt you owe the amazing creativity of American industrialism and the unprecedented material progress of Western civilization. And because the secularistic revolt went too far and lost sight of God and true religion, there also followed the unlooked-for harvest of world wars and international unsettledness. It is not necessary to sacrifice faith in God in order to enjoy the blessings of the modern secularistic revolt: tolerance, social service, democratic government, Page 2082 and civil liberties. It was not necessary for the secularists to antagonize true religion in order to promote science and to advance education. But secularism is not the sole parent of all these recent gains in the enlargement of living. Behind the gains of the twentieth century are not only science and secularism but also the unrecognized and unacknowledged spiritual workings of the life and teaching of Jesus of Nazareth. Without God, without religion, scientific secularism can never co-ordinate its forces, harmonize its divergent and rivalrous interests, races, and nationalisms. This secularistic human society, notwithstanding its unparalleled materialistic achievement, is slowly disintegrating. The chief cohesive force resisting this disintegration of antagonism is nationalism. And nationalism is the chief barrier to world peace. The inherent weakness of secularism is that it discards ethics and religion for politics and power. You simply cannot establish the brotherhood of men while ignoring or denying the fatherhood of God. Secular social and political optimism is an illusion. Without God, neither freedom and liberty, nor property and wealth will lead to peace. The complete secularization of science, education, industry, and society can lead only to disaster. During the first third of the twentieth century Urantians killed more human beings than were killed during the whole of the Christian dispensation up to that time. And this is only the beginning of the dire harvest of materialism and secularism; still more terrible destruction is yet to come. 9. CHRISTIANITY'S PROBLEM Do not overlook the value of your spiritual heritage....
............ The tyrannical and dictatorial political state is the direct offspring of scientific materialism and philosophic secularism. Secularism frees man from ecclesiastical slavery only to betray him into the tyranny of political and economic slavery. Materialism denies God, secularism simply ignores him... Recently, secularism has assumed a more militant attitude, assuming to take the place of the religion whose totalitarian bondage it onetime resisted. Twentieth- century secularism tends to affirm that man does not need God. But beware! this godless philosophy of human society will lead only to unrest, animosity, unhappiness, war, and world-wide disaster. Urantia Book
Ciggies are ultimately smoked. Built-in disinflation / supply control. ;)
Support your local gunfighter.
Not if too valuable a means for trade. "in the 1980s, cartons of Kent cigarettes had replaced currency as the preferred medium of exchange in Romania."
Once while incarcerated, I was able to smuggle a carton of smokes into jail. (Crooked guard). The carton of smokes was traded for nearly $1000.00 worth of "stores" ie., cheese, crackers, cokes, candy bars etc., ... I had everyone's combination to their storage locks (about 50) and usage of their lockers to keep all of my treasure in ... considering the circumstances it was a risky investment that paid great dividends ... I didn't smoke em ... I traded em.
"They say Justice is blind and I agree ... so much so that she hasn't found her way into a courtroom since 1938" noone222 12-17-06
or liquor.
Why do you even bother "debating" with this severely uncredible?
Mark "I was real close to Building 7 when it fell down... That didn't sound like just a building falling down to me while I was running away from it. There's a lot of eyewitness testimony down there of hearing explosions. [..] and the whole time you're hearing "boom, boom, boom, boom, boom." I think I know an explosion when I hear it... — Former NYC Police Officer and 9/11 Rescue Worker Craig Bartmer
It is for now UH, NO, it isn't... Gold and silver coin are being minted by the US Govt 5 days a week in New York. THAT'S real money. The paper "currency" which you are claiming to be money is merely a debt note. It isn't issued by the government but instead by the Federal Reserve, which is a private banking institution. It even says on each and every bill - "NOTE". Let's ponder a legal question. EVERY court in the United States will rule that the legal owner of the milk and bread is Destro. He is the issuer of the note. Bill used to be the owner of the bread and milk, but he gave up ownership by accepting the note. Tommy is out of the question altogether - he is merely an agent for the issuer of the note. There's the scam that folks don't see. By using FRNs, we don't actually gain ownership of anything. The Fed owns everything we purchase. We're merely agents acting for the Fed. Sure, we get equitable possession and use of the goods we purchase, but actual ownership is still the Fed's!!! That's what allows them to tax us - we're using their notes - their "system", and they see it as a taxable privilege. Using their "system" is what allows them to confiscate things if we don't pay our tax. It's like being evicted for not paying rent. Since they legally own it anyhow, they have a right to take possession of it from us if they want to. So how does all this relate to gold and silver? How about these 17 little words in Article 1 Section 10 of the US Constitution which have never been repealed: All this is another reason why I like the idea of doing business with small "mom and pop" type businesses as opposed to the corporate giants like Walmart. I've found that you can set up an arrangement with the "small guy" to take gold or silver coin. In fact, many of them seem to like the idea!!! As for the notion of gold or silver being recognizable or trustworthy as to their content - I also think it's best to stick with government minted coinage. It doesn't matter much as to what government. Most people recognize an African Krugerrand, or a Canadian Maple Leaf, or an American Eagle as being authentic. Also gold and silver hold their value. Do you think the price of anything has gone up??? NOPE!!! It's just the purchasing power of the dollar that has gone down. When we went off the gold standard (into the Federal Reserve System) in the early 30's, a $20 gold piece and a $20 bill were the same thing. You could take either one into the tailor and buy a complete head-to-toe suit including hat and shoes for the $20. Today the $20 bill won't even buy the tie, let alone the entire outfit!!! BUT if you had stuck the $20 gold coin in a drawer, it's value today will still buy you the entire head-to-toe suit... OH, BTW - You may be well off right now, but it's a real possibility that one day the playing field will be leveled off. When that happens, your family's Greek island mansion won't be doing you much good. It'll be the ones that know how to hunt a deer, skin and butcher it; build a fire from scratch; put together shelter; travel without having to rely on petroleum AND at the same time having the ability to pack along needed survival necessities; secure safe liquids for drinking (milk the goat perhaps?) - those will be the ones that have an upper hand...
No matter how noble the objectives of a government; if it blurs decency and kindness, cheapens human life, and breeds ill will and suspicion - it is an EVIL government. Eric Hoffer
At least you are consistent. You are still the ignorant schmuck you proved yourself to be in our last conversation! Why on earth would I entrust my financial security with any one else?? When the shit hits the fan, I am the only person I want to have access to my funds!!! Limited world view is what you hold. You are still looking through that toilet paper tube, insisting that it is a telescope!! (Thank you for that analogy Randge!!! It will be the first thing that comes to mind every time I read something stupid from Destro!) You may want to consider running a "get out of dodge scenario" yourself, especially living in such a populated area. In your neck of the woods, it will be difficult protecting your stores. You may want to consider relocating to one for the above mentioned reasons. Not only does the local grocer accept precious metals, so does the local bar, and could easily talk the local gas station into it as well. Plus in the event of emergency relocation (though we plan on sticking it out as long as possible) the horses don't require fuel, and I am sure they would appreciate the lighter burden, and fewer pack animals would attract less attention from the desperate. Your average American will have a hell of a time leaving this country when the shit hits the fan. The restrictions are being put in place as we speak, do you really think they will just let all of the little sheep run in fear and lighten security for us to leave?? I suppose you think other countries will come to our aid and assist American refugees as America has done for so many countries in the past?? Get real, you had best be where you are safe before it gets deep, travel out of the country will be impossible for all but the richest, and travel within the country will be greatly restricted. Maybe a year later when some sort of post Mad Max like world emerges gold may be the currency of choice but during the Mad Max period I don't think gold will be worth much. Once again my friend, you remain true to your character. You have talked yourself full circle until you have supported the very point you were against in the beginning. Reserving part of your assets in precious metals is in my opinion among the wisest of financial moves one could make, especially in this day and age. Not only can it be a quality investment when the economy is stable, but it can be liquid if the need arises, and when the economy turns turtle, eventually, when the new currency is established and the economy running on an even keel again, you have an easier means to reestablish your wealth. I am not saying that stores of other tangibles is a bad thing. Food, munitions, smokes, beer, whatever you may need is a very wise choice. But any money that I will have available will be in precious metals. I hope to do very little trading for goods. Seeing how with a very large garden, and meat animals here on the farm, supplemented by stores of items that we do not raise here, we should need very little in the way of trade goods. Also, in times of economic strife, if we do trade off any of our stores, it will be for gold and silver, or some other form of barter. As we are fairly well prepared, there will be little that we would prefer over the precious metals. Remember, Every time a country has hit hyperinflation, the government has seized funds from anyone transferring too large of an amount. When the government issues a currency, they do own those notes. When life gets tough, they can easily seize them.
"Don't Steal, the government hates competition."
Ping. I thought you may enjoy this thread
"Don't Steal, the government hates competition."
Not really - Survivalist mentality is based on a fantasy that the world will become like the 'Mad Max' movies. In any case I view survivalists like I view the militia movements - dress up fantasists.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Survivalists to me are the ultimate secular material world types - If the antichrist is coming why do these so called faithful feel they need to horde themselves away like cowards and moles and not confront the beast? and become martyrs?
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Yup. In Moscow if you wanted a taxi to stop for you you held up a pack of Marlboro's - they would not stop to pick you up for rubles. No one held up gold coins or diamonds or silver. I have had experience dealing with the melt down of the east European commie bloc countries which provides a real world comparison to such a fiat currency meltdown. I also know of Argentina's recent fiat money meltdown and I know from that example that employees got to be paid in goods like food instead of cash from the factories they took over when their owners abandoned them. So that is why I think that when the end comes for the dollar silver and gold will not be the currency of trade. Sure it will help but few will use it as the medium of trade.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Well, then all I have to say is that I am very glad that I desended from "fantasists" as if they had not been such, they may not have survived the Great Depression, and thus being the case, I would not be in existence to listen to your drivel.
No matter how noble the objectives of a government; if it blurs decency and kindness, cheapens human life, and breeds ill will and suspicion - it is an EVIL government. Eric Hoffer
You won't get any argument from those that failed to survive !
"They say Justice is blind and I agree ... so much so that she hasn't found her way into a courtroom since 1938" noone222 12-17-06
LOL !
There was no militia/survivalist movement during the great depression so what fantasy are you talking about? In fact the last I remember Hoover ordered the army to shoot at the closest thing to a militia movement of that era the so called 'Bonus Marchers'.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
You know very well that 'Survivalist' entails a very specific type - the go to the mountains and live in a bunker with stocks of arms and supplies and wait for the end preparing you shoot at people trying to take your stuff from you. I find these types 'fantasists'.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
OK schmuck, there you go putting words in peoples mouths again, I don't believe that he mentioned anything about a militia mentality during the great depression. Yes there are those who are both survivalist and militia type of people, but there can be a survivalist who wants nothing to do with militia (George Gordon perhaps??) and there are people who have the militia mentality yet have no survival instinct. Granted, those with the militia mentality typically are survivalist as well. Myself, I am a survivalist. I have no desire to go down shooting. On the other hand, if the battle is brought to me, I will defend what is my own and fight along those I love to keep it. This, in my humble opinion, is not a militia mentality, as I do not get off on the idea of having to kill someone, nor am I in any hurry to see it happen. I would far prefer if it never came to that!
"Don't Steal, the government hates competition."
Who knew you knew Yiddish? Here you are putting words in my mouth - or to be correct words to my fingertips: I wrote: There was no militia/survivalist movement during the great depression so what fantasy are you talking about? Since the person above mentioned he was one of those 'fantasists' from the past I enquired which one? Survivalist or militia? That is why that line "/" in "militia/survivalist" implies. Since the only militia that comes to mind that meets that criteria remotely is the 'Bonus Army' which Hoover busted with force of arms. So since that leaves out the militia what was the survivalist aspect that person was talking about in the 30s? With that said I consider the militia movements in America as currently comprised and the survivalist movement (Survivalist meaning people going off to live separate from society waiting for the melt down which they will survive with stocked supplies) as wrong headed fantasists. If you want real world examples of an economic melt down and solutions see what the people of Argentina did - they did not resort to cannibalism like was implied in the 80s Survivalist/Militia movement I grew up around. For some reason the Survivalist literature given to me back in the day always talked about bands of cannibals roaming the country side after the dollar collapsed or a nuclear war went off or Y2K or whatever. At least they don't talk about the Black Helicopter delusions these days nor the fact that the UN is setting up concentration camps in Alaska for the NWO these days. I wonder what other delusion has come down the pike to replace the Black Helicopters?
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
There must be a genetic marker that causes some to maintain a stubborn resistance to tyranny. Many otherwise intelligent people find it necessary to fight a gargantuan enemy with little promise of winning, out of principle. This "type" of person you call a fantasist, I call a loyal citizen. And it's this type of person that gives rise to hope that things can be restored to a tolerable condition, while others accept every incremental increase in governmental intrusion with a shrug, (like you), a non-fantasist. These people you call fantasists have been trying in some cases for 25-30 years to gain the attention of their so-called representatives with little success, yet they remain intent upon doing so without instigating violence. If and when violence breaks out, possibly through a civil war, it won't be the fantasists starting the chaos. The chaos will be the result of apathetic people, fearful of exposing themselves to damage, that have remained idle in the face of ever growing fascism for whatever reason. I think those people that move to the mountains would welcome others of like mind, and reject feeding the apathetic in the event some were able to access the high ground. All of this talk about survivalists would be unnecessary if we could form a unified resistance of millions, if we could get every person that refused to file a tax return for instance, to march on D.C. at one time, knock over a few statues and fill the Washington Mall to over flowing ... others thusfar apathetic would see this and realize that a very large part of the population is fed up and they too would join in. We should make a point of invading D.C. on July 4th with a massive number of people just to see what happens, before we have any reason to head for the mountains. Let's hope that 2007 is the turning point.
"They say Justice is blind and I agree ... so much so that she hasn't found her way into a courtroom since 1938" noone222 12-17-06
No. Survivalists are drop outs aka 'retreaters'* - albeit heavily armed drop outs. Citizens are actively engaged in the affairs of the state - hence the origin of the word 'citizen' being an active member of the 'city'. The word 'idiot' is of Greek origin - it means someone who does not actively engage in the affairs of the city/polis. Survivalists (of the type I described) are thus idiots. PS: Modern members of the militia movement are not 'idiots' (because they are trying to uphold a segment of the constitution and be active citizens via the militia clause of the 2nd Amend.) but I do feel they are unpractical and ineffectual. * author Don Stephens in Washington (author of The Survivor's Primer & Up-dated Retreater's Bibliography, 1976) popularized the term "retreater" to describe the movement, referring to preparations to leave the cities to a rural retreat when society breaks down. For a time in the 1970s, the terms "survivalist" and "retreater" were used interchangeably. The term "retreater" eventually fell out of favor, perhaps because "survivalist" has a more macho connotation.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Those who fail to learn from history will repeat it. The American Army will shoot and club and bayonet those hypothetical marchers - like the American army commanded by Gen. MacArthur did to the so called 'Bonus Army' under Republican president Hoover.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Destro: Goethe once said "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." I believe he was right. A good analogy is a calf turned out in a pasture. He is free to roam and graze as he pleases. BUT how free is he really? Our list of freedoms grows shorter by the day. We can't even go to the grocery store and buy RAW MILK for crying out loud!!! Can't travel or marry without "papers", or have an opinion of "dissent" without the risk of being declared "a terrorist enemy of the state". Your delusional perception of freedom will slowly get you led to slaughter - as at the point you realize it's gotten out of control it will be too late. You (along with Starwind and Nolu_Chan) do not seem to realize that the "root" of evil in this country is the government itself and it's most central components such as taxation, a fiat currency and the resultant ability for inflation, and the military industrial complex. It is fitting to remember the words of Henry David Thoreau: While the likes of you and Starwind advocate things like working within the system to effect change you show your ignorance. (Nolu_Chan doesn't even seem to want to advocate change - govt shill) You are striking at the branches and leaving the root. A hailstorm may rip all the branches off a tree, but if the root is left intact the tree will survive and come back. Benjamin Franklin once said "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Mr Franklin made an important choice in the use of his words - the scornful use of "deserve". "If you love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen." You'd like to think you have common sense, but I'm afraid you're sorely lacking in that department. You think your education gives you an upper hand but it doesn't. As Rudyard Kipling once wrote: So call us "fantasists", "survivalists", "idiots" or whatever you want - it is only those types that share a common vision with the Founding Fathers of true freedom - and stand ready to truly fight the evil our government has become so that you gutless wonders (which I call dropouts) can one day say "we won". Do us a favor - don't include yourselves in that "we" statement...
No matter how noble the objectives of a government; if it blurs decency and kindness, cheapens human life, and breeds ill will and suspicion - it is an EVIL government. Eric Hoffer
Nobody will be getting back up after that KO. ;)
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act - - George Orwell You are the language expert, you should know that schmuck is in the English dictionary and does have English usage. I do believe that we have discussed before that I prefer to use the modern definitions of the English language. Fair is fair, after all, you choose to define words for your own purpose, so I shall be allowed to follow in suit. The main difference is that the definitions that I choose to use are all readily accessible in any English dictionary. What was the survivalist mentality??? Hmm, let me see here, if trying to figure out how to feed your family is not a survivalist mentality, then I guess I have been incorrect. My mistake is that either you are even more ignorant than I gave you credit for, or those who survived were just lucky. But I am sure that if another "Great Depression" or any comparable event were to hit our society today, the mortality rate would be astonishing. Very few within the cities would have a clue how to feed themselves, and the percentages would only be slightly higher in the country. But according to you, this has nothing to do with survival. Odd, I did not know that you had to "drop-out" of society to have the mentality and ability to survive if and when the shit hits the fan. Damn, guess I have had it wrong all along. If disaster hit today I would be doomed. Here on the farm we can produce all of our own food, have horses for transportation, and have stores for things that we cannot raise But I am doomed Destro said so, because I am an active member of my community, I AM DOOMED!!! I guess I had best inform the local business owners that accept silver that it will do them no good to be prepared, because they are active members in our society, They are doomed as well.
"Don't Steal, the government hates competition."
Was that before or after the appearance of the term "white flight"?
ARAGORN: Murderers... traitors! You would call upon them to fight? They believe in nothing! They answer to no one! Actually the best way to kill a tree is girdling.
ARAGORN: Murderers... traitors! You would call upon them to fight? They believe in nothing! They answer to no one! From the link: If the food-transporting phloem is severed all the way around the tree (a process called "girdling"), food cannot be carried to the roots and they will eventually die. As the roots die, so does the tree.... ...Some trees are prolific sprouters and produce adventitious twigs near an injury. If you don't remove or kill the entire root, you just may have to control these sprouts. Sprouts coming out below the girdle must be removed as they will continue the process of feeding the roots if left to grow. No matter how you look at it - if you don't stop the root, you ain't done shit.
No matter how noble the objectives of a government; if it blurs decency and kindness, cheapens human life, and breeds ill will and suspicion - it is an EVIL government. Eric Hoffer
Retreating (as Survivalists were first called retreaters) is not 'resistance to tyranny' - it is not even Ghandi like non violent resistance. Survivalists are drop outs - which was a popular view on both the left and the right in the late 60s and through the 70s - the Survivalists were just late to the game - adopting the left hippie mantra of 'tune in and drop out' and the concept of the hippie commune but with guns and no peace and love BS. But don't claim a Survivalist is a good citizen which was what I was responding to - they may be good people - but they are not active citizens.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
There you go again putting words into my mouth - Words do have meaning: Survivalist is a specific type of person/movement - surviving the Great Depression is not being a 'Survivalist'. So stop with the BS. Secondly, twit - I am against Survivalist mindsets because these Survivalists are not active members of their community - they run away rather than confront. Where did I write being an active community member leads to your doom? In fact i wrote that being inactive in politics or the affairs of your world is to be an idiot.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Just because Don Stephens popularized the term "retreater" to describe a "survivalist" doesn't mean that the meaning of the word "survivalist" is "retreater", or even that they could or should be used interchangeably. From Webster's dictionary: survivalism survival survive(s) I thought I addressed common sense in my last reply... P.S. I thought it was YOU who further up in the thread claimed that when "the shit hits the fan" you'd survive by retreating to your family's "Greek island villa"... Perhaps in YOUR case survivalist and retreater CAN be used interchangeably, but just because it applies to you doesn't make it so for the rest of us.
No matter how noble the objectives of a government; if it blurs decency and kindness, cheapens human life, and breeds ill will and suspicion - it is an EVIL government. Eric Hoffer
I refuted the fact that being a 'retreater' is being a good citizen per whoever wrote that. If I fled - and I may when the country goes to hell - I don't rule out anything - that would not be a sign of being a good citizen - a good citizen is one who stands and stays and trys to fix things. I may do that I many not - I don't know till the event happens - if it happens. Fair enough?
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Kits to test it are easy to come by and the bullion coins merely need be checked for weight and tolerances.
"pound pastrami, can kraut, six bagels – bring home for Emma"
In the frenzy good water or the means to obtain it may comand a preminum. Ya got gold, so what we got water. We here have had city stopping blizzards, and the grocery stores have run a little short of some foods. This is not something we are used to seeing, and I think it engendered a bit of a panic in the people here. From what I know, the average city supermarket has THREE DAYS of food in a nonpanic situation, Panic, my guess is sixteen hours. Our family is almost like a convience store we have so much food and such around. We have fourty pounds of rice in a cooler and the same of wheat in the basement as well as several cases of canned corn and beans. I figure we're good for an easy four weeks or more, prolly six counting the shrimp in the freezer. I may be wrong, cause it goes faster than I think, as I can go the the store every day if left to my own devices. If the system goes down tho, water is going to be the first big thing. Our main popped a few months ago and all of a sudden the loos wouldn't flush. So we stupidly let our remaining potable water flush the loos and had nothing to drink or wash with. We have a good running stream close by and some filters and a bit of a plan if the SHTF. Fifty pounds of rice or wheat stored somewhere where the mice can't get at it and some thought to water supply might make the difference.
And several bricks of hermetically sealed .22 LR cartiges and a hand full of large caliber shells complete the package. When you want to buy them you cannot. I hope I dump mine at the fireing range or in a dumpster when they are OOD. But for $200 today......
or liquor. Now that currency is liquid and easy to value. Tho not really. For example (and I am revealing secrets here) Ron Rico run ($7.99 a 750 ml is exactly the same liquid as Bacardi for $12.99. The only difference is the $100,000,000 spent telling you Bacardi makes you cooler if you buy it.
Dude, in the teens and twenties everyone in the Appalachians was essentially a "militia/survivalist". Merely because there wasn't a lot of violence and death doesn't mean they weren't armed, prepared and capable of generating their own food and operating in localized economies. As for the bonus marchers, they were WWI vets trying to get a compensation certificate paid out early during the depression. They were unarmed, and Hoover never ordered them shot, just forced out of DC where they were becoming an unsanitary problem...
"pound pastrami, can kraut, six bagels – bring home for Emma"
When you send in the army - that implies you authorized the shooting - which happened - the US Army under Gen. MacArthur marched at bayonet point and shot into the Bonus Marchers. So next time someone says lets march on DC as an organized peaceful militia force remember what the US Army did to the Bonus Marchers.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
'Survivalist' entails a very specific thing - you know it and I know it. a movement brought about due to the rising Cold War fears and the economic crisis starting in the 70s.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
So you are pretty much saying over and over again that anyone who chooses individual independence and self-reliance over participation in a corrupted fascist political system which makes people dependent on government checks and conformist thinking, is not a good citizen? Odd that the ruling class actively promotes involvement - or maybe it isn't. True freedom outside the system IS the enemy of the elitist. Richard W.
I am saying that not resisting a corrupted fascist political system is being a bad citizen. By very definition a citizen is someone who is active in the political life of the city-state. Not participating in the 'process' or 'resistance' (which can be non-violent resistance) does not make you a bad person but that is not the sign of being a good citizen. Retreating is not resistance. It is avoidance.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
I respectfully disagree. There is no real meanful public participation in the current system. Proof - the choices "handed" to us in the last presidential election. Yeah right. I say, step aside, prepare and wait until the corrupted mass destroys itself. Beating your head agaist a wall is a waste of time and resouces. Richard W.
I agree to a degree. The issue before us is if not participating by say becoming a 'survivalist- retreater' (a more accurate term?) is a sign of being a good citizen or not. I consider resistance as a form of participation as well as continuing working within the corrupt system in an attempt to change it. I don't consider 'dropping out' a form of resistance nor do I consider it an act of 'civitas' - though I understand why some do.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
You are a very absolutist thinker - black or white. That's what the government shills and propagandists do - "for us or against us". "You must be a liberal and hate America if you don't support the war". It's so much bullshit and so is a narrow restrictive definition of what a good citizen does or doesn't do. I fight the system by staying out of debt and not falling for the latest corportate "must have" gadget. Above all, I don't let others define me. Richard W.
That is a wrong assesment - Citizen has a very specific political meaning. I fight the system by staying out of debt and not falling for the latest corportate "must have" gadget. Above all, I don't let others define me. I don't understand why you are identifying this behavior of yours (which is commendable) with being a 'survivalist-retreater'? I don't consider the 'survivalist-retreater' philosophy and behavior indicative of good participatory citizenship.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
It is only one aspect of my susvivalist personality. Like I said, you are an absolutist and I'm stating to think a propaganist/shill. You start off by narrowly defining people and categorizing them with labels and then you attach a negative modifier to your falsely labeled group. I see that you are now repeating "survivalist-retreater" over and over as if it were true. Next, you will be asking to see our purple fingers. The idea that survivalists are either "retreaters" or not good citizens is pure bullshit. Richard W.
For who? Because I have an opinion? I repeat "survivalist-retreater" to be more accurate - it is something I find Americans lack - the ability for the current American mind to think accurately so I need to clarify each statement to the max. Americans have become a muddled addled brained people and I find I need to speak to them on a babyish level because any sign of complexity is viewed with hostility. The group I am talking about started off being called both "survivalists and or retreaters" and some of you 'shills' have taken to mean survivalist as someone who has a preparation/emergency bag, etc. You know very well that "survivalist-retreater" movement was more than this - it was a complete abandonment of any participation in American life beyond gathering supplies for the end time. So in reality I am not using a black and white assessment - I just state that the badge of good citizen is based on the concept that the citizen is an active member of his city-state. I don't see how someone who drops out of society is such a good citizen in the political meaning of the word 'citizen'.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
How are they good citizens? Being a citizen entails a mutual relationship between the citizen and the city-state. If the state fails in its obligations to the citizen then the citizen is obliged to correct the deficiencies of the polis not hide out in the woods.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
No shit . . . and no one fell for it. Now take a step back and consider who your audience is. Richard W.
'Retreater' was what the Survivalists were once self-called.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
So a small fraction of the whole defines the whole group? I don't think so. Richard W.
It is you that insists I am painting with a broad brush - my intent on use the phrase above is to narrow down who I am describing - for some reason you insist on saying I am calling everyone this tag. Why?
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
I'd say that you now have that small fraction of survivalists so narrowed down that you have made both them, and your misleading suvivalist-reteater lickage argument irrelevant. Nice try on your part though. Richard W.
The movement thankfully withered - what we have left are the offshoots of men and women so dispirited they refuse even to think they can defeat the forces of the state and head off the 'end'. All they talk about is hoarding some supplies and riding out the end and then they will emerge is some sort of new American paradise..... Fantasists...
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
I agree. Many see the lying weasels in Washington getting away with what amounts to nothing short of murder and thievery and reasonably draw that conclusion. Who is going to hold them accountable and demand justice? Government operates in its own best interest and if bumping off some serfs in the process keeps the rich and powerful running the show, then the serfs are going to get crushed. Richard W.
Oh now we agree - I guess my propaganda shilling worked some how....
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Dispirited doesn't automatically qualify them as either retreatists or survivalists. Richard W.
Nope - just influenced by the movement.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
For starters, I would like to apologize for my delayed response. Do to my job, I am often away from home for a couple of days at a time. This is also the reason that there are times where I must reply to several of your posts at once, as I will be doing here. I was simply trying to show you how ridiculous your statement appeared to the reader. In your world, maybe every thing can be so narrowly defined. In the real world it is not so. As inniway showed you in his reply to you, survival, survivalism, survivalist, and survive all take root meaning in the ability to survive. No where in any of those definitions did it say anything about running, retreating, or that someone who "survived" the Great Depression was unworthy of the term survivalist. You, yourself pulled up wikipidia's definition of survivalism which reads as follows: 1. Natural disasters, such as tornadoes, hurricanes, earthquakes, blizzards, and severe thunderstorms May I point out that in your own reference "survivalism" include the practice of being prepared for an event, even one such as a natural disaster. I am taking for granted here that we can both agree that a "survivalist" is someone who practices survivalism. In preparing for a natural disaster, food shortage, and other such events, a survivalist would have no need, and I doubt any desire to "retreat" nor need for a "militia mentality". A survivalist who practices survivalism does not require the readiness nor desire to retreat or kill. Granted, I do understand, that in your narrow point of view (as Randge stated, looking through a toilet paper tube, calling it a telescope...) that because some survivalists had retreated in the past, and even labeled themselves as retreater's, you are now convinced that the word survivalist shall now be replaced by retreater forever, no argument, and no one else's view is welcome. I have to beg to differ, many people posses survivalist ability, but some people of this fiber also tend to retreat. Some people of this fiber have a militia mentality. I simply wish to clarify that not all of us plan nor desire to retreat, neither do all of us have the militia mentality. Granted, some of the survivalists have both. Also here are a few more quotes from you that I would like to address: I consider resistance as a form of participation as well as continuing working within the corrupt system in an attempt to change it. I don't consider 'dropping out' a form of resistance nor do I consider it an act of 'civitas' - though I understand why some do. I don't consider the 'survivalist-retreater' philosophy and behavior indicative of good participatory citizenship. How are they good citizens? Being a citizen entails a mutual relationship between the citizen and the city-state. There is one form of "retreat" that I condone %100. That is retreat from the system that is wrongfully and unlawful abusing the citizens that have been faithfully following. The longer people blindly slave for our government, the more of our rights that are forfeited. When you hold a Social (in)Security card, you hold a taxpayer identification number which obliges you to adhere to a tax code that not even law. The system originally began as a voluntary benefit program. Take it or leave it, but if you desire retirement benefits, you sign up, get a card, pay in all your life and then get some benefits back when you are old. Don't get me wrong, I am not against the idea, I appreciate that the government cares enough to offer assistance in retirement planning. But this program has gotten blown way out of proportion. The program is still voluntary, you can walk in to any Social Security office and request the form to withdraw yourself from it(or even download it online), and relinquish any and all money that you have paid in, and give up your association to that number. But thanks to further illegal legislation, if you choose to not participate in this voluntary program, you have a miserable time trying to find work, you cannot obtain a drivers license, you cannot hook up a telephone, internet, or any bank accounts or many other things that you need this number for. Hmmm, does not sound very voluntary to me. Granted, you can still get out of the system, but not without making your life difficult. Here is where I do condone one form of retreating. If more and more people were to disassociate themselves from this voluntary program (I believe that it may take hundreds of thousands for this to happen,I am not holding my breath), and deal with a few hardships for a while, then the government would eventually see that they cannot continue to keep the country in this daily increasing strangle hold that we are currently in. Now this is not necessarily retreating from society. It is standing up for your rights in a very noticeable manner and peacefully requiring the government to make legislative changes. What makes this system an issue for some, is that the Lord describes many times in the statues that he requires his people to live by strict liability. Also the the constitution and the bill of rights both allow for religious free exercise. Essentially, the God expects us to be liable for our own choices, and the government allows for us the worship as we wish, but if we choose to not participate in Social Security our lives become very difficult. This in my opinion, is very conflicting. But pulling out of the system does not mean that you are a poor citizen, in fact it tends to bring citizens (at least of the local community) closer together. Employers have to appreciate their employees enough to pay cash and lose some of their normal tax deductions, employees work harder in appreciation of the employer paying cash, and knowing the difficulty of finding a job, if paid my check, the employee has to rely on local merchants to cash it for them as they cannot obtain a bank account, also, for private work done, barter becomes far more common, your grocer, bar, or gas station may even accept silver as payment when you do not have cash available. You can dispute all of the above as much as you wish, but the above situation is not hypothetical. In my local community this is fact. I do know a couple of people that do not participate in Social Security, and it has caused them to become better and more productive citizens, and because they work so much harder and are so much more appreciative of being hired to work, those in the community that are still tied to Social Security and such are much more willing to help these people trade as needed. As a matter of fact, in the near future, I will be giving up my social security number as well. Unfortunately I do have a few small debts to clear up before this can happen. This is not an easy choice for me. I am a truck driver, and I really enjoy my job, but there is no way I can hold a CDL (or any other class of drivers license) without a Social Security number. I am not delusional, I do not believe that my giving up my SSN will necessarily change legislation, but do to the fact that participating in this program conflicts with what know from the Bible, I can not continue on in good conscience since I have learned that Social Security is a voluntary program.
"Don't Steal, the government hates competition."
very well articulated.
*blush* Well thank you. My post is nothing more than my simple feelings. Moreover, being that I am prepared to survive, I do not appreciate when survivalists are being labeled as retreaters. Also, I do not feel that you should have to be a slave to be a good citizen. To participate in programs that you do not desire or need just so that you can enjoy your God given rights, which the government has labeled as "privileges" should never be tolerated. I do feel that anyone who is fed up with the system must know that getting out of it is an option, though it can make life more difficult. This option of getting out of the system is the best way I can see to stand up to the tyranny that is steadily overtaking our country, even though in small numbers, this will have no impact. In this day and age you can write letters to all of the politicians that you can find addresses to until both of your hands fall off, and yet nothing will change. Peaceful, legal action, IMHO, is always best. But there are times when the tyranny has gone too far and force is required. Thank God we have not reached that point yet, but I fear that too many people will write letter's or just complain in internet forums until it is too late, that is their choice.
"Don't Steal, the government hates competition."
That is fine - but you can not call that being a good citizen. Which is the point you are avoiding I think. Take for example this article - you fear fiat money collapse. Instead of organizing to get the govt to follow the will of the majority and back the dollar with gold reserves you all engage in the alternative of hording gold as the alternative. Instead of trying to change the system you are dropping out of it - already admitting defeat.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
We done been defeated - and that long ago. It's better to come clean and admit it. (Which is something our White House doesn't know how to do.)
THERE'S NOT ONE DOUBT IN MY MIND THAT WE WILL FAIL - GW Bush
The system will never change if we continue to blindly comply. We can grumble all we want, but unless we hit the legislators where it hurts, in the pocket book, they will not change the way things are. Furthermore, as I explained in my post, there are many reasons that I am withdrawing from the Social Security system. One of the major reasons is that this system violates my personal beliefs. How is this being a "bad" citizen if the government it self has made sure to keep this program at least somewhat voluntary, and allow a means to remove yourself from it?? It is not breaking any laws, violating any ones rights, I am not running off to some cave to be a hermit. I have simply decided that participating in this voluntary program is against what I feel is right for me, that since I do not feel it is right I will never draw benefits from it, and I shall no longer pay into it either. Granted that this will add a few difficulties into my life, but I believe that they are worth it. I do not understand how this is admitting defeat, I am intelligent enough to understand that I do still have a few unadulterated rights left in this country, and I have chosen to exercise the right to not participate in this program. Admitting defeat would be something more along the lines of, "yeah, I know it is wrong, and it violates my personal beliefs, but the government has me over a barrel, there is nothing I can do". Myself, on the other hand, I have chosen to take a course of action that will no longer violate my personal beliefs. I am willing to give up my career, and work harder for less, but I can take relief that I am living my life the best way that I know how. That, my friend, is not defeat, but a small personal victory. But I cannot understand where you think that you have the right to judge whether a persons chosen plans make them a good citizen or not. Could it be that because you are prepared to cut-and-run that you have a guilty conscience. Is that why you insist that all survivalists are retreaters? Because that is a large part of your survival plan? And because of your guilty conscience, you feel the need to demean someone else's citizenship. You can rest assured, that I know that I am a good citizen, despite your two-bit opinion. Nothing will change in this country unless citizens stand up and lawfully demand change. Think about it this way, if 10% of each of our states population were to follow in the footsteps of myself and the couple of other local citizens who have withdrawn from Social Security, the impact from this would have a ripple effect that would have some of the big money lobbyists screaming for change for our benefit. This route would probably take far less than 10% of the population, but I can promise that if people started taking quiet, legal action, in a way that influences the right people, there would be change. Once again, I am not delusional, I don't believe that my stepping out of the system will be the straw that broke the camel's back, it will take many more people following in suit to implement change. I am doing this because I believe it is right, and if eventually enough people follow in suit to create change, all the better. Also, I do not run around telling people that they should withdraw. Yes, I believe that it is the best choice for me, but I am also prepared to handle the repercussions. I have horses here I can saddle up instead of driving, my bills are minimal enough that I do not have to chase the almighty dollar, I have already removed my self from the banking system and so on. I am sure to warn anyone who is interested in this course of action of the privileges that they will be giving up. There are also many privileges to be gained as well. For instance, did you know that if you do not get a birth certificate or a SSN for your child at birth that Social Services can never say one word about how you raise your child. You can educate that child at home in the manner you desire and never have to deal with the government to do it, also that child could never be drafted for the military. But there is also the fact that that child could never attend public school, never qualify for college loans and so on and so forth. There are many things to balance and consider before one makes such a life changing decision. But making this decision in no way admits defeat. Just the opposite, it is taking action that can implement change, and accepting that your life will be more difficult for doing it. That is something you can take pride in.
"Don't Steal, the government hates competition."
Every time that I purchase silver and willingly exchange my FRN's for it, I am both sending a message and voting for a bimetal backed currency. I personally don't believe that there is any chance that our totally corrupted government will ever return to something like a gold standard, but you are welcome to believe, that for some unexplained reason, the ruling class will suddenly become fiscally responsible and start acting in the interests of the serfs rather than the bankers and Wall Street. Richard W.
Shucks, I guess you must be a bad citizen as well. Maybe we will have to start a support group for all of us bad citizens on the forum. Who knows, if we ask pretty please with sugar on top, Destro may even counsel us on how to be good citizens. :)
"Don't Steal, the government hates competition."
The expression, "They work for us" is one of the biggest lies ever told. We the people, have almost no voice at all in government. Congress is nothing more than organized crime working under the ruse of an officially elected constitutional government. Nothing short of armed rebellion is going to change that. Richard W.
I can definitely agree with that. But as far as the armed rebellion, I vote for hitting them in the pocket books first. As Destro mentioned, peaceful marches on DC are met with some degree of force. Now if you have an armed militia, the government simply labels you some sort of terrorist, extremist, cult or other brand of public nuisance. By pinning this label on you it is open season on the militia, and the sheeple thank the government from saving them from this evil. Then the government can implement more strangle holds on the public, and get a pat on the back for doing so. IMHO in order to get the governments attention it must be peaceful, yet devastating. Like hitting the pocket books of not only the government, but of banking and insurance people as well. By hitting the funders of major lobbyists we now have what your average Joe cannot even hope to afford, lobbyists being funded for what the people really want and need. Option number two, in order for an armed rebellion to work, we would need the vast majority of the country armed and on our side, and massive amounts of organization. I do not see this happening any time soon. The government will have to really tromp all over our rights so much that even the sheeple consider believing that this is for our own benefit. Before the government will go that far they will have armies of immigrants (illegal and otherwise) they don't care about the rights of citizens and will fight simply for their own benefit. Then not even the sheeple will dare stand, as it was the common gutlessness of mainstream America that put us in this boat to begin with. Don't get me wrong, if I see no other means of fighting the tyranny, I will fight. Hell, if that day comes, I may be among those who lead the rebellion. I despise what this country is coming to because I love what it was meant to be.
"Don't Steal, the government hates competition."
The government has become very good at preventing that from ever happening by keeping the population more or less evenly divided and at each others throats. Same crap the rulers do all over the world. Divide and conquer. The puppet government in Iraq wouldn't survive a week if the public hadn't been actively divided. Richard W.
So, in the arena of dialogue, you get to infer that the Bonus Marchers with their wives and kids were "Militia" members, while my merely equating the skill level of Appalachian dwellers as equivalent to modern Survivalists is verboten? Kinda disingenuous I'd say, not to mention missing the point...
"pound pastrami, can kraut, six bagels – bring home for Emma"
That nail is squarely head-hit. Reduce/eliminate debt, pay in cash, invest in tangible assets, buy in-country manufatured products wherever possible. Starving the government of its green blood is the main route of dissent...
"pound pastrami, can kraut, six bagels – bring home for Emma"
You are a willful self deceiver. You damn well know that the term 'survivalist' (also called 'retreater' or 'retreatist' in the early 70s) refers to a movement that arose during the Cold War where people were so afraid society was about to collapse/end they retreated to the mountains and were waiting for the end of the world with the hopes the stocked up enough food to last through the crisis. This 'Survivalist' is not the same as people who live off the earth because they are poor dirt farmers like the Appalachians. Any attempt by you to link this movement to just natural skills acquired by people who live off the earth but have no political or ideological bent to their being mountain folks is disingenuous. As for the Bonus Marchers - Militia means an organized force of citizens. The Bonus Marchers was the closest thing to a militia march on DC we have ever seen (and they were unarmed) - ex soldiers - organized and marching and protesting - and they were put down by the US Army with deadly force.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Why buy American? Buy foreign made and kill off American manufacturing even quicker - eliminating a revenue base for the Feds. Buy Chinese whenever you can - no quicker way to eliminate the power of America.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Destro, you are a moron. What, you would rather bring on the destruction of this country as quick as you can rather than take the high road and work to preserve the country that our founding fathers worked so hard to build?? I can understand that you think that by strangling the supply of money to the Fed. But look at the civil war, the only reason that the North "won" was that they were self reliant. They had enough manufacturing facilities that they could produce what they needed. The South on the other had to purchase the majority of goods they needed to survive. The two means of purchasing these goods were cotton and the money that they had printed for their new Confederate government. Not only was their monetary means insufficient, but the supply lines were easily controlled by the North, this left the South very vulnerable. If you remove the Americans ability to sustain themselves you weaken the people. As it is, the ability of this country to produce what we use is already greatly impaired. We export on average only one fourth of what we import. Take the shoe industry, the United States only produces 10% of the footwear that American consumers purchase. If you truly wish to strangle the Fed and strengthen our country, concentrate on an open market. Whenever possible produce your own or go straight to a small business that produces their own. Take shoes for an example again, my standard footwear is cowboy boots. There are many leather workers who are what I call "little guys", buying boots from them will cost more, but also you generally get what you pay for, and these boots last longer. When purchasing from your average "little guy" if you pay cash and tell them that you do not need a receipt they will typically not report that income, hence not pay taxes on it either. If I am unable to purchase straight from the source, I will buy American anyway, at least this will provide Americans with jobs. In the case of electronics where it is very difficult to buy American, I will buy used. The amount of foreign products that we consume is also the reason that the North American Union is on the horizon. Transport of these imported goods can be greatly reduced if they can use a Mexican port (eliminating American dock workers) having the Mexican drivers able to drive the Semi's with very little hassle, and not having to obtain a United States CDL (eliminating American Truck Drivers) or loading trains in Mexico (Eliminating American railroad employees) to deliver goods all over the United States and even up to Canada with minimal cost. This would be a crushing blow to the American economy and would cost Americans many jobs. I am sure that Americans will not give up their foreign goods, nor Wal-Mart (a huge backer of the North American Union, and major importer of foreign goods)therefore that makes these problems inevitable, so here on the farm we work harder to make sure that we have the ability to produce the vast majority of what we consume. We understand that the economy will crash and crash hard. We also understand that it will do little or no good to be evangelistic and try to warn the masses, because the masses have no desire to change. We simply quietly prepare to feed ourselves and those closest to us. We know that the collapse will hit us hard as well, but at least we won't starve and will not have to steal.
"Don't Steal, the government hates competition."
So what does that make a family who has chosen to be "poor" by eliminating debt and also working away from the house less (hence living on less income) so they can be "dirt farmers" in order to eat healthier and be prepared for an economic breakdown?
"Don't Steal, the government hates competition."
Appalachian like poverty is not chosen by those people nor does it have a political rational - i.e. their poverty is not based on them wanting to belong to a political/social movement.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
applauding your great post. you are a woman of substance and a fine patriot. ;)
You are confused - you want to destroy the Fed govt tax base yet get upset when I bring up the fact taht imports from China are free from Federal taxation/levies unlike American firms who pay taxes and support the federal beast. If you are for the destruction of the Federalies then I see no better way to destroy the beast by starvation than starving the beast of manufacturing revenues and empowering a nation that can stand up to the USA overseas.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
No Destro, you are the one who is confused. Have you ever considered that the people who sell these goods still pay income taxes, the employees of these companies still pay Social Security and all the rest. Yet these imports contribute very little to the security and prosperity of the average American. OH, Yeah, that is right, why in the hell would you care, you don't have to worry about the true welfare of this country because you have a little island that you can run and hide on. No wonder you demand that survivalists must be retreaters and in your mind (a very small, yet empty space) because retreat is your means of survival, all survivalists must be retreaters. Good luck from retreating from the NWO schmuck. You can do all you wish to bring my country to its knees, then run and hide, but don't forget, this will be an international issue. Why do you think that I want to empower the "little guy". What American in their would want another government to forcefully take over our country. Hard working Americans need to take the reins and run our own country, hence these are the people we need to empower!!!
"Don't Steal, the government hates competition."
Correction: "The desire to rule is the mother of Destro". Do you make stupid remarks just to be noticed ?
"They say Justice is blind and I agree ... so much so that she hasn't found her way into a courtroom since 1938" noone222 12-17-06
A. Yes, we choose to live quite poor by American standards. B. I never said that the people in the Appalachians "choose" to live in their personal state of poverty. C. My question was what is you narrow minded, view through a toilet paper tube, name for the likes of us here on the farm?? I am posting my previous comment to save you the trouble of looking back and maybe getting lost so that you may answer my original question. "Don't Steal, the government hates competition."
Thank you, but no great compliments are due. We simply live as we see fit and follow our hearts to do what we feel is truly right.
"Don't Steal, the government hates competition."
according to you they are the enemy - feeding the beast are they not?
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Only a delusional American thinks the Chinese will invade America - meanwhile America invades everywhere and sends her fleet to China's shores every now and then in a show of force.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
I don't want to rule a thing. I do want to free America from her demons - that includes the demon of ignorance most Americans have been possessed of in the last 3 decades.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
A quote from Destro: You yourself were advocating buying Chinese in order to empower a nation that can stand up the the USA overseas, You are nothing but an argumentative, ignorant, narrow-minded schmuck who cannot even stick to your own argument. Once again (I have lost count as to how many time this has happened) you have talked yourself full circle to prove how flawed your own thoughts are.
"Don't Steal, the government hates competition."
Like it or not, the center of the economic universe is shifting to Asia. It looks unstoppable whether you buy the cheap toaster or the more expensive German one. It won't be long before those German toasters will be made by Bulgarians. The West is on its last legs. Richard W.
Yes, I do see this myself. But I refuse to contribute to the problem. If you live in an inner city neighborhood where murder rates are off the charts, do you just throw your hands in the air and say "if you can't beat 'em join 'em"? Do you become a murderer yourself? No, you do what you can to keep you and your family alive. That is what we do here. IF the majority of Americans would refuse to buy products from Asia, and maybe even gravitate towards American made, yes, we could change this trend. But I know well, this will never happen. That is why I mentioned in an earlier post on this thread, being evangelistic and trying to warn the masses will not help the problem, the masses do not want to change. Instead, we do what we can to support American industry, and preferably free trade (no, not NAFTA, or International free trade, but free trade between two individuals without the government getting a piece of the action)and try to be as self sufficient as possible for when our economy does collapse.
"Don't Steal, the government hates competition."
So let me get this down right - you advocate starving the beast that is the evil federalist govt but you don't want to starve it too much so they can fight the Chinese and preserve the American Military Industrial Complex by building more weapons to take on the world than any nation does today - including the Chinese who think they are fine with maybe 200 nukes rather than the thousands we Americans have? Like I said - your ilk - be they 'survivalists' or 'militiamen' or 'freemen' or 'patriot movement' types have a problem with cognitive dissonance. My Chinese example was just that - an example. You types advocate resistance by starving the beast of revenue - so I say cut the penny anty stuff - go for the big revenue stream from corporations and support non American industry. That will kill off the Federal beast quicker then living in the woods eating bark.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
False.
"I've been running from the devil and he hasn't caught me yet."--Jason Boland and the Stragglers.
A. I do not eat bark, I save that for the goats B. I do not wish to support ANY industry, I work to either produce it myself, or purchase from a small private business, but if industry is the only means to acquire what I need, then yes, I will buy American ahead of foreign. Of course I stated all of this in an earlier post that you did not have the attention span to read to its full extent. C. To the best of my knowledge, if there is a group that I may be stereotyped into, I have yet to discover it. I have only met two other people that are truly like myself. When taking into account the population of this country, never mind the world, you can hardly call three people a group. D. I want to strengthen the American people, not foreign countries, and not our government. This can be done, though it is not easy. I know I have mentioned many times that if more people lived as we do here on the farm there would be massive change. But I have also mentioned just as many times that I know this will not occur, your average American is far to lazy and spineless to live as we do. Nonetheless that does not mean that I will simply bow down and contribute to the problem. I will continue to do what I know to be best. If by some miracle enough American people would begin to implement changes by their actions, I would call it a miracle, as that is what it would be.
"Don't Steal, the government hates competition."
Unfortunately Destro is somewhat correct on this one (as much as I do not like him) But I despise that because one group of survivalists during one period in American history did call themselves "retreaters" that now all survivalists (in Destro's small mind) are retreaters.
"Don't Steal, the government hates competition."
If masses of blood-thirsty gangs are charging towards you and your loved ones, would you stand there in order to be a "good citizen" or would you wish you had retreated to safety instead?
Come on Destro get real...
There have always been people who were loners who wanted to leave society, get away from people and become mountain-men or just go to the backwoods and live off the land. No one ever suggested such people were bad citizens, maybe a bit eccentric, but they were never thought of in the least bit as being bad and certainly not criminal. I find this thread very interesting, reading between the lines of Destro's posts is very telling. No one should have to be defensive about their choice of life-style as long as no laws are broken and no one gets hurt, isn't that what the media repeatedly tells us, Destro? In fact the homosexual lifestyle is often touted as a positive form of diversity. So what is the big deal if someone chooses to live as a "retreater"?
No he/she is not being disingenuous, as you have portrayed all such people who retreat as being bad citizens.
No one has to fear a Chinese invasion. They will simply take up the reins of civilization after the west becomes one big dust-heap.
Only in your 'Turner Diaries' wet dreams...
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
That was a low blow Destro. I don't wish harm on you or anyone, perhaps you do though to think up such a thing.
I was NOT implying that you are a homosexual if that is what you are so angry about, I was using that as an example of an alternative, acceptable life-style that we are all very familiar with.
Destro is a thoroughbred member of the Synagogue of Satan, and ... nothing but an argumentative, ignorant, narrow-minded (motherfucker) schmuck who cannot even stick to his/her own argument.
"They say Justice is blind and I agree ... so much so that she hasn't found her way into a courtroom since 1938" noone222 12-17-06
Don't apologize to this worm. "It" (he/she) is a spineless piece of maggot shit and likely a fag too.
"They say Justice is blind and I agree ... so much so that she hasn't found her way into a courtroom since 1938" noone222 12-17-06
Don't apologize to this worm. "It" (he/she) is a spineless piece of maggot shit and likely a fag too.
"They say Justice is blind and I agree ... so much so that she hasn't found her way into a courtroom since 1938" noone222 12-17-06
I would stand there and gun them down with my lawful weapons. They would be mincemeat and I would spit on their graves.
"It is the old practice of despots to use a part of the people to keep the rest in order; and those who have once got an ascendency and possessed themselves of all the resources of the nation, their revenues and offices, have immense means for retaining their advantages." Thomas Jefferson to John Taylor, 1798
Look ay this homepage ... http://www.freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/homepage.cgi? h=Destro
"They say Justice is blind and I agree ... so much so that she hasn't found her way into a courtroom since 1938" noone222 12-17-06
I wasn't even implying he was a fag, I was trying to point out that homosexuality which used to be frowned upon by society is now crammed down our throats, yet if a person wants to live out in the boonies as a recluse he's a bad citizen now, it just doesn't make sense. And he knows if all hell broke loose in this country he would not be standing in the streets of NYC, being a good citizen doesn't accomplish much if you put yourself in harm's way. I was just pointing out some inconsistencies but I guess he didn't appreciate it!
Maybe a year later when some sort of post Mad Max like world emerges gold may be the currency of choice but during the Mad Max period I don't think gold will be worth much. I have to agree with you there. But not preparing for the post mad max period is kinda stupid, no?
I don't like greek food as a rule, but greek owned diners do make the best breakfast. :)
Clearly delusional and likely sociopathic.
"It is the old practice of despots to use a part of the people to keep the rest in order; and those who have once got an ascendency and possessed themselves of all the resources of the nation, their revenues and offices, have immense means for retaining their advantages." Thomas Jefferson to John Taylor, 1798
I have been in the survivalist movement for over twenty years, and have only heard this term used once or twice, and always in a negative fashion by non- survivalists.
"I've been running from the devil and he hasn't caught me yet."--Jason Boland and the Stragglers.
Surviving hangovers doesn't count.
... and I like cyber f**k the males. -- Ponchy
Near as I can tell, these people who call survivalists "retreaters" are those who can clearly see that there are troubled waters ahead, yet either lack the knowledge or motivation to prepare properly, so they feel the need to insult those of us who are prepared/preparing in order to feel better about their lack of preparedness.
"Don't Steal, the government hates competition."
The survivalists that Destro is referring to are those of us down here like us here on the farm. People who are active in their local economy, work hard, and don't cause any trouble - yet who are prepared to survive whatever comes our way ( right now prepared for an economic breakdown). We have done nothing to retreat from society (though in the near future I will be opting out of the Social Security program) raise a garden and chickens and goats and a calf for our own consumption in self defense and so on. Yet somehow Destro believes that people like us are retreaters.
"Don't Steal, the government hates competition."
Destro the Brat has a home in another country so he does not have to worry about such things.
Clearly delusional and likely sociopathic. Actually, after looking at it, some of his more idiotic comments make more sense. Now I can see why wants Americans to buy Chinese in order to empower them - he lives in cartoon land and that goes right along with his little cartoon character. I bet he even has a little GI Joe Destro doll there by his computer to inspire him!!!
"Don't Steal, the government hates competition."
Yep, that is why he does not care what happens to this country. Also, as his plan for survival includes retreat, all survivalists must then be retreaters, right?
"Don't Steal, the government hates competition."
At least thinks he is a Thoroughbred. I think he is more of a useless nag that needs to be put out of our misery.
"Don't Steal, the government hates competition."
I meant that the notion that some on the fringe hold that roving bands of Americans will degenerate into gangs - some add on cannibalistic gangs - is an old American nightmare - recently reused in 'The Turner Diaries'. It was even the central plot to the silent movie 'Birth of a Nation'. It was even a story told about New Orleans during Katrina - mass rapes and cannibalism - which turns out to have been false.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
My whole point is instead of working in the here and now to prevent a Mad Max world you have people giving up and waiting for one to happen - that is wrong thinking in my view. Work to prevent Mad Max along with your fellow citizens not work to survive Mad Max on your own. Don't buy gold reserves to prepare for a future melt down - pool your money and organize grass roots movements to prevent a melt down.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
My whole point is instead of working in the here and now to prevent a Mad Max world you have people giving up and waiting for one to happen - that is wrong thinking in my view. Work to prevent Mad Max along with your fellow citizens not work to survive Mad Max on your own. Don't buy gold reserves to prepare for a future melt down - pool your money and organize grass roots movements to prevent a melt down. The 'Retreater' aspect of the movement melted away but the mindset of separation from society has not. The 'survivalists' also have melted away as a movement replaced with a more generalist group which has adopted the term 'preparedness' over 'survivalist' because of the negative connotation of the world survivalist took on in the late 70s and early 80s. The movemnt I have an issue with are those that don't want to do anything other than wait for the crud to hit the fan. I don't want you people out of sight and avoiding the govt - I want people to organize and confront/stand up to the power of the govt and fix the problem rather wait for the end. The 'be prepared' part I have no problem with - I do have a problem with those that say the end is near - do nothing but wait till it happens.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
The 'be prepared' part I have no problem with - I do have a problem with those that say the end is near - do nothing but wait till it happens. And buying foreign goods is your solution?? Why do you think that I buy domestic and privately?? I do what I can to support our economy without feeding the beast. Yet I make sure that I am prepared for when the breakdown happens (I believe that it will as few people are working towards a positive solution), this does not cost a lot of money, in fact in many ways it is cheaper than the average American life. The biggest cost is time.
"Don't Steal, the government hates competition."
Listen, I realise you are a dimwit - I was MOCKING your assertion that to destroy the federal govt you need to disengage from the system and starve the Feds of taxes. In reply I mocked your position and proposed that what the hell - buy Chinese imports and ignore American products (thus depriving the Feds of revenues at a greater clip) and speed up the process of starvation. Capice?
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Religion is a lie. God is a lie. What is wrong with you?
When the going gets weird the weird turn pro. - Hunter S Thompson
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
I'm an athiest and always found being civilized a sensible solution to petty tribal conflict HOW TO LOVE GOD - Meher Baba
sometimes there just aren't enough belgians
Especially after those particularly bad acid trips.
"I've been running from the devil and he hasn't caught me yet."--Jason Boland and the Stragglers.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
sometimes there just aren't enough belgians
sometimes there just aren't enough belgians
OK oh wise one, what in the hell is you solution you might want to consult your GI Joe on this one. P.S. oh linguist expert, you do realize that you don't know how to spell?
"Don't Steal, the government hates competition."
Such wisdom is not for the likes of you.
"I've been running from the devil and he hasn't caught me yet."--Jason Boland and the Stragglers.
sometimes there just aren't enough belgians
If there were a major economic collapse it could be dangerous to be out in the streets, when Katrina hit New Orleans it was a nightmare to be there, for one people were in danger of drowning and many did. The lucky ones drove out of there before it hit (like my cousin and her husband who lost their home and he lost the building where he had his medical practice), I probably would have done the same had I lived there, seeing how it turned into a toxic cesspool with chemical spills and all kinds of bad stuff in that water, and of course there was no power and no food, and many ended up dying. I never heard the stories of mass rapes or cannibalism, but I know that all the refineries dump their wastes in the Mississippi River and that water that flooded and touched everything made a lot of people sick and ruined many buildings.
Also our govt is not very good at listening to the people, they do what they want now regardless.
Uphold the Constitution against the left AND the right. These Bush years have shown that the right wing/so called conservatives whackos can be just as anti-constitutionalist as the Left wing whackos.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Fine. That's what you're good at...just don't try to think and philosophize with any human beings.
Accepting used LP accounts and donations in cash.
wouldn't dream of it, dear boy.
sometimes there just aren't enough belgians
The solution is to elect people who know how to get things done. Maybe some Americans of the right wing should think less of surviving in some armed camp and elect men who don't spend this nation's wealth on the military but on public infrastructures. I always ask so called survivalists if they are for cutting the armed forces budget? Most say no and look at me like I am some commie - yet they are in the woods eating bark waiting for the day the same military they want to fund to the max comes and gets them for some reason. If any survivalist can explain to me this dichotomy let me know.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
No where in the constitution does it say that I have to have a Social Security Number, yet you say that I am a bad citizen because I do not want one anymore. Isn't giving it up constitutional?
"Don't Steal, the government hates competition."
It does not say you can't have one either. But the solution is not to go to the woods and run away but to try and get the law changed through the constitutional system.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Yeah, with electronic voting machines where the elections can be rigged...
"Don't Steal, the government hates competition."
But I do not want one, can't I be a good citizen with or without one??? Don't I have the constitutional right to chose whether or not I have to participate in a program that I don't need?
"Don't Steal, the government hates competition."
OK, so you give up.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
You can only be a good citizen if you are INVOLVED - pro or con it does not mater - as long as it is INVOLVEMENT. Finally understand? To be a citizen means to be INVOLVED. If you are against something - AGITATE rather than disengage. I find agitators the best of citizens.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
I can live according to the constitution with or without a SSN, I have that right. So why do I need one to be a good citizen???
"Don't Steal, the government hates competition."
Finally understand? To be a citizen means to be INVOLVED. If you are against something - AGITATE rather than disengage. But I am against having a SSN, I don't have to start a war over it, all I have to do is fill out a form and disassociate myself from the number. Why can't I be a good, involved citizen without that number???
"Don't Steal, the government hates competition."
You tell 'em! Maybe now Bush admin will straighten up and fly right.
sometimes there just aren't enough belgians
Good for you - since I never brought up the SS system not I - I will say that you did right by you. Your statement regarding SS# has nothing to do with my statement as far as I can tell so I can't really see how you brought it up.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Because to folk like neocon rats and commie drats, involvement means being forced to donate your MONEY to TheStateInc. It has nothing whatsoever to do with altruism, i.e. being a "good/involved" citizen. The politicowhores do not want us involved and they have proven it time and again. Get too involved and they'll report you to DHS Komrade,
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act - - George Orwell I don't favor maintaining a standing army AT ALL. And I think that this system is too rotten to repair. Let it crash and let us start over anew.
Accepting used LP accounts and donations in cash.
Ahh, but you called me a retreater and a bad citizen for wanting to give up my SSN earlier in this very thread. You have all of the answers, WHY CAN'T I BE A GOOD CITIZEN WITHOUT PARTICIPATING IN A VOLUNTARY SYSTEM?
"Don't Steal, the government hates competition."
Lol. You manage to get in a good one a couple of times a year...
Accepting used LP accounts and donations in cash.
But I Don't Wanna donate!!! :P
"Don't Steal, the government hates competition."
Take your babble elsewhere, son. This is becoming a serious thread.
Accepting used LP accounts and donations in cash.
Shut the fuck up, it's more your fault, as an educated person, that this country is in the kung-fu grip of the international banking establishment than it is Joe Six Pack's. You are bright enough to realise that beer truck drivers play a vital role in the economy.
sometimes there just aren't enough belgians
I vote, but I have little control over who runs for office. Most people running for office do so for the wrong reasons, so it's a matter of voting for the least of the worst. The money being spent on these war adventures is going to break the back of this country, many people are not too hopeful because of that, and our elected officials are hellbent on continuing these destructive policies. I don't think there are a lot of these armed camps of survivalists you speak of, at least to my knowledge, I think the heyday for that was in the early 90s, though there will always be such groups and always have been.
I don't want to start a war over anything either, we've got enough of that.
How many people have Ponchy on Bozo now?
... and I like cyber f**k the males. -- Ponchy
No one has given me reason to keep records. What would something like that pay?
sometimes there just aren't enough belgians
I thought you knew everything.
... and I like cyber f**k the males. -- Ponchy
Triple digits yet?
... and I like cyber f**k the males. -- Ponchy
I never said I knew everything, and can't imagine anyone else saying I knew everything unless they were sometimes there just aren't enough belgians
I did? show me.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
See if you can get Ponchy to bozo himself. Maybe he will vanish.
... and I like cyber f**k the males. -- Ponchy
I have a plan...
sometimes there just aren't enough belgians
Bullshit. I only analogised the skill level of the two groups, and you can't deny that as far as any group of people go, the hill folks have some of the least love for government around. Most all of the rebellious types the government has ever had to put up with have haled from there, and they've been the receptors of some of it's most egregious violations (TVA and Shenandoah Park to name two). My family has been in the area since around 1720. In their particular location, the community still had a requirement that able bodied men between 16 and something like 50 (I don't have the book handy) be equipped to fall out and repair creek and river fords and crossings up to the 1930's because there were no bridges built there til then. Anyway, I believe we're picking nits...
"pound pastrami, can kraut, six bagels – bring home for Emma"
And the solution is not to live in the woods eating bark waiting for the corrupt system to collapse - because it won't. When the Roman republic fell into one man rule/despotism did the system collapse or did it find a new form of existence? You think starving the Feds of taxes will stop them? Hell, they will do what the Athenians and Romans did - ask their allies for donations for the protection of the empire - and when that revenue stream runs out then you incorporate more nations into the empire and make them pay taxes and so on.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
And again I tells you this ain't the people I am talking about - especially since these people of yours seem to incorporate a community activism. They are not waiting (and doing nothing to prevent it) for the collapse of the American system so they can start over again. That is the classical survivalist thesis that I am addressing.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Destro, much of their "poverty" stems from the fact that they've historically desired strongly to be left alone. That's a hell of a political/social movement, albeit undefined, in todays world...
"pound pastrami, can kraut, six bagels – bring home for Emma"
It's now taking 70+ years of Jewshit for Russia to TRY to recover...maybe we need some hard Russian winters to steady the mind and body? How's about a big fuck you on some survivalist theory.
I was in a situation once where just that happened (in a temporary and micro way) A six pack of hot caffine free Diet Pepsi's were going for $20 bucks.
What should we be afraid of this week? The Islamofascist under the bed or the commie in the broom closet?
... and I like cyber f**k the males. -- Ponchy
I did? show me. Since you forgot what it is that you have said, or how to look back and read for yourself.... For starters, I would like to apologize for my delayed response. Do to my job, I am often away from home for a couple of days at a time. This is also the reason that there are times where I must reply to several of your posts at once, as I will be doing here. There you go again putting words into my mouth - I was simply trying to show you how ridiculous your statement appeared to the reader. Survivalist is a specific type of person/movement - surviving the Great Depression is not being a 'Survivalist'. In your world, maybe every thing can be so narrowly defined. In the real world it is not so. As inniway showed you in his reply to you, survival, survivalism, survivalist, and survive all take root meaning in the ability to survive. No where in any of those definitions did it say anything about running, retreating, or that someone who "survived" the Great Depression was unworthy of the term survivalist. You, yourself pulled up wikipidia's definition of survivalism which reads as follows: A survivalist is a person who anticipates and prepares for a future disruption in local, regional or worldwide social or political order. Survivalists often prepare for this anticipated disruption by learning skills (e.g., emergency medical training), stockpiling food and water, or building structures that will help them to survive (e.g., an underground shelter). The specific preparations made by survivalists depend on the nature of the anticipated disruption, some of the most commonly anticipated being: 1. Natural disasters, such as tornadoes, hurricanes, earthquakes, blizzards, and severe thunderstorms 2. A disaster brought about by the activities of humankind: chemical spills, release of radioactive materials, or war. 3. General collapse of society, resulting from the unavailability of electricity, fuel, food, and water. 4. Widespread chaos, or some other apocalyptic event. May I point out that in your own reference "survivalism" include the practice of being prepared for an event, even one such as a natural disaster. I am taking for granted here that we can both agree that a "survivalist" is someone who practices survivalism. In preparing for a natural disaster, food shortage, and other such events, a survivalist would have no need, and I doubt any desire to "retreat" nor need for a "militia mentality". A survivalist who practices survivalism does not require the readiness nor desire to retreat or kill. Where did I write being an active community member leads to your doom? Here is the comment you made that I facetiously replied to in order to illustrate how ridiculously ignorant your posts may seem to the reader, no matter how perfectly they make sense to you: No. Survivalists are drop outs aka 'retreaters'* If my only chance of surviving an event is to drop out or retreat, I would far rather become a statistic. In my humble opinion, I believe that there would be a lesser chance of surviving such an event if you respond by leaving shelter and stores of food behind for the sake of running. And lastly, if being a drop-out or a retreater has anything to do with being a survivalist, hence practicing the ability to survive, I must be blind, because I fail the see that they are unfailingly intertwined. Granted, I do understand, that in your narrow point of view (as Randge stated, looking through a toilet paper tube, calling it a telescope...) that because some survivalists had retreated in the past, and even labeled themselves as retreater's, you are now convinced that the word survivalist shall now be replaced by retreater forever, no argument, and no one else's view is welcome. I have to beg to differ, many people posses survivalist ability, but some people of this fiber also tend to retreat. Some people of this fiber have a militia mentality. I simply wish to clarify that not all of us plan nor desire to retreat, neither do all of us have the militia mentality. Granted, some of the survivalists have both. Also here are a few more quotes from you that I would like to address: I am saying that not resisting a corrupted fascist political system is being a bad citizen. I consider resistance as a form of participation as well as continuing working within the corrupt system in an attempt to change it. I don't consider 'dropping out' a form of resistance nor do I consider it an act of 'civitas' - though I understand why some do. I don't consider the 'survivalist-retreater' philosophy and behavior indicative of good participatory citizenship. How are they good citizens? Being a citizen entails a mutual relationship between the citizen and the city-state. There is one form of "retreat" that I condone %100. That is retreat from the system that is wrongfully and unlawful abusing the citizens that have been faithfully following. The longer people blindly slave for our government, the more of our rights that are forfeited. When you hold a Social (in)Security card, you hold a taxpayer identification number which obliges you to adhere to a tax code that not even law. The system originally began as a voluntary benefit program. Take it or leave it, but if you desire retirement benefits, you sign up, get a card, pay in all your life and then get some benefits back when you are old. Don't get me wrong, I am not against the idea, I appreciate that the government cares enough to offer assistance in retirement planning. But this program has gotten blown way out of proportion. The program is still voluntary, you can walk in to any Social Security office and request the form to withdraw yourself from it(or even download it online), and relinquish any and all money that you have paid in, and give up your association to that number. But thanks to further illegal legislation, if you choose to not participate in this voluntary program, you have a miserable time trying to find work, you cannot obtain a drivers license, you cannot hook up a telephone, internet, or any bank accounts or many other things that you need this number for. Hmmm, does not sound very voluntary to me. Granted, you can still get out of the system, but not without making your life difficult. Here is where I do condone one form of retreating. If more and more people were to disassociate themselves from this voluntary program (I believe that it may take hundreds of thousands for this to happen,I am not holding my breath), and deal with a few hardships for a while, then the government would eventually see that they cannot continue to keep the country in this daily increasing strangle hold that we are currently in. Now this is not necessarily retreating from society. It is standing up for your rights in a very noticeable manner and peacefully requiring the government to make legislative changes. What makes this system an issue for some, is that the Lord describes many times in the statues that he requires his people to live by strict liability. Also the the constitution and the bill of rights both allow for religious free exercise. Essentially, the God expects us to be liable for our own choices, and the government allows for us the worship as we wish, but if we choose to not participate in Social Security our lives become very difficult. This in my opinion, is very conflicting. But pulling out of the system does not mean that you are a poor citizen, in fact it tends to bring citizens (at least of the local community) closer together. Employers have to appreciate their employees enough to pay cash and lose some of their normal tax deductions, employees work harder in appreciation of the employer paying cash, and knowing the difficulty of finding a job, if paid my check, the employee has to rely on local merchants to cash it for them as they cannot obtain a bank account, also, for private work done, barter becomes far more common, your grocer, bar, or gas station may even accept silver as payment when you do not have cash available. You can dispute all of the above as much as you wish, but the above situation is not hypothetical. In my local community this is fact. I do know a couple of people that do not participate in Social Security, and it has caused them to become better and more productive citizens, and because they work so much harder and are so much more appreciative of being hired to work, those in the community that are still tied to Social Security and such are much more willing to help these people trade as needed. As a matter of fact, in the near future, I will be giving up my social security number as well. Unfortunately I do have a few small debts to clear up before this can happen. This is not an easy choice for me. I am a truck driver, and I really enjoy my job, but there is no way I can hold a CDL (or any other class of drivers license) without a Social Security number. I am not delusional, I do not believe that my giving up my SSN will necessarily change legislation, but do to the fact that participating in this program conflicts with what know from the Bible, I can not continue on in good conscience since I have learned that Social Security is a voluntary program. "Don't Steal, the government hates competition." ladybug posted on 2007-01-04 20:28:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply #122. To: ladybug (#121) very well articulated. christine posted on 2007-01-04 21:15:14 ET Reply Trace Private Reply #123. To: christine (#122) very well articulated. *blush* Well thank you. My post is nothing more than my simple feelings. Moreover, being that I am prepared to survive, I do not appreciate when survivalists are being labeled as retreaters. Also, I do not feel that you should have to be a slave to be a good citizen. To participate in programs that you do not desire or need just so that you can enjoy your God given rights, which the government has labeled as "privileges" should never be tolerated. I do feel that anyone who is fed up with the system must know that getting out of it is an option, though it can make life more difficult. This option of getting out of the system is the best way I can see to stand up to the tyranny that is steadily overtaking our country, even though in small numbers, this will have no impact. In this day and age you can write letters to all of the politicians that you can find addresses to until both of your hands fall off, and yet nothing will change. Peaceful, legal action, IMHO, is always best. But there are times when the tyranny has gone too far and force is required. Thank God we have not reached that point yet, but I fear that too many people will write letter's or just complain in internet forums until it is too late, that is their choice. "Don't Steal, the government hates competition." ladybug posted on 2007-01-04 23:25:42 ET Reply Trace Private Reply #124. To: ladybug (#121) There is one form of "retreat" that I condone %100. That is retreat from the system that is wrongfully and unlawful abusing the citizens that have been faithfully following. The longer people blindly slave for our government, the more of our rights that are forfeited. That is fine - but you can not call that being a good citizen. Which is the point you are avoiding I think. Take for example this article - you fear fiat money collapse. Instead of organizing to get the govt to follow the will of the majority and back the dollar with gold reserves you all engage in the alternative of hording gold as the alternative. Instead of trying to change the system you are dropping out of it - already admitting defeat. "The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom Destro posted on 2007-01-05 9:19:13 ET Reply Trace Private Reply "Don't Steal, the government hates competition."
Hey manure-va, almost missed your post because you sent it to an unknown address. How is the sphincter and textile artist of imaginary history doing? You should be afraid of truth and justice this week.
The fact that you are incable of anyting above wingnut rage and obscenities tells me that you are a conservatvei Republican. I assume you also smoke cigarettes, most Freepers do. Must be hard on the heart being pissed off all the time. But go ahead and act like an animal, digust at your type is what got the Congress and Senate out of the hands of Cunningham, DeLay, Foley and the rest of your type. If you keep it up, you might give the Dems a super majority next election Now run along and bugger a little boy and take your Oxycontin like a good Republican.
... and I like cyber f**k the males. -- Ponchy
Oh my .... it's the crawling, cringing coward!!! What freedoms should we give up today to keep us safe from the vast gang of boogeymen you fear? How about freedom of speech? People then wouldn't be able to point out the dishonesty and incompetence of your God George W. Bush.
.
You think this civilization is going to last forever? Humanity is either going up the technological ante or nuke itself back into the stone age. At the moment, I'm in wait-and-see mode. "When the Roman republic fell into one man rule/despotism did the system collapse or did it find a new form of existence?" Exactly. We are standing by, ready to assume control. Why will we succeed if the system collapses? Because we have the most ammunition and gasoline. "You think starving the Feds of taxes will stop them?" Not really.
Accepting used LP accounts and donations in cash.
It's not my fault. It's not your fault. But it is their fault. Got it?
Accepting used LP accounts and donations in cash.
Oh manure-va, that was so rich. Keep playing with your fat quarters and try to stay away from reading people because you stink at it, like manure-va always does. You are the one displaying anger, injecting your hate filled self into a reply not to you. You always reference little boys. Are you a fag playing as the female?
My statement "Instead of trying to change the system you are dropping out of it" does not deal with social security but with dropping out of political activism. I hope that cleared it up for you.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
You don't do well out of the echo chamber do you? A fearful little bully like yourself isn't capable of anything beyond hate, anger and silly, childish insults. But that's true of most of the GOP/Freeper crowd isn't it? Thanks for demonstrating it to the board. Well, take and Oxycontin, ask Foley to find you a little friend and be secure in the knowledge that Rush would be proud of mindless little sheep like youself. Get back to me - you cowardly little name caller - when you're able to rise above your silly freeper consciousness and and Bush worship.
... and I like cyber f**k the males. -- Ponchy
Hmmmmm..... does it make the pathetic little cringing wingnut coward feel tough to beat up on a woman? You are a worthless cowardly worm arn't you. Better run, there is an Islamofascist behind you!!! Boo!!!
.
Typical liberal BS from a liberal loser.
So I assume you are waiting for the end of this Republic? How long did Rome last after the Republic fell? 500 years? If you count Byzantine Eastern Rome then another thousand years.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
You can always tell when you hit the nail right on the head with a freeper kook, they try to change the subject with a silly and lame personal insult ---- like you just did. LOL!! Gotcha!! And thanks for admitting it.
... and I like cyber f**k the males. -- Ponchy
That is a fantasy. The Republic fell but not the legions. If this republic falls we won't degenerate into a Mad Max nation - and the Pentagon will stay around and either run things or run things for the oligarchs who will take over. Your gas and ammunition reserves are a joke compared to what even a post republic American system can muster.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Why don't you try calling people 'Clintonistas'? That's what I do when I don't have anything to back up my bullshit.
Why don't you go post your spew on Daily Kos? They would have a ball with a knuckle dragger like you.
... and I like cyber f**k the males. -- Ponchy
Yup - I see freeper type of echo chamber closed mind thinking here even among anti-Bush right wingers. Though they are not on Freerepublic they have that freeper mind think. Where did this type of closed loop mind think originate for the right wing? what inspired it? I am a right winger per say but I recoil at what the movement has become.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
..-. ..- -.-. -.- -.-- --- ..- ... ... .... --- .-.. . .-.-.-
Ponchy, at some level it's probably your fault.
... and I like cyber f**k the males. -- Ponchy
May be candid here? You are a real dork.
... and I like cyber f**k the males. -- Ponchy
The US won't have official lifetime dictators. That simply isn't going to happen. But the Republic is dead and has been dead since FDR's adminstration. And the US will never have a Roman or British type empire. No one will. It just can't be done that way in the modern age. But the US has had one for quite a while characterized by rule by proxy thugs and corrupt elites whose "Independence" is in name only. Given the acceleration of time due to technology- I would say the US is entering it's late imperial stage- of overstretch. 500 years? Hardly. The US seems to be going through all the stages of ancient empires in a 5th of the time. The only thing that has changed since the days of the Roman Empire is the popularization of "liberty"- wether it be expressed in forms of national sovereignty or individual freedom- no one will tolerate a government of direct colonization any longer. Empire has to be masked in some form of "liberation" rhetoric. That is all that has changed. There is a great emphasis on bullshit, lies, and spin to mask what are essentially age old sins of states- conquest and tribute. The honesty of ancient times is quite refreshing as compared to the modern age.
you gotcha nothing sphincter mouth.....
You have to really look for people who disagree with Paul Craig Roberts or Buchanan. When Buchanan stuff goes up on Daily Kos the people always say that they hate him but they have to agree with this one thing that he says - no matter how many times his stuff goes up. There is a big difference between these guys and Limbaugh, Bush and Hannity. I think AM Radio ruined the GOP. It just got too easy to lie for a while there and this turned the major players into an army of bullshitters -- like IIAR is today. The few remaining honest ones are respected - maybe grudgingly, but still respected -- almost everywhere.
... and I like cyber f**k the males. -- Ponchy
My limited little knuckle dragger, please get back to me when you are capable of something beyond tossing out insults like a freeper or a 9 year old. Until then, take your oxy and have Ted Haggard hook you up with a nice little boy.
... and I like cyber f**k the males. -- Ponchy
I don't want to sound like a broken record, but you are a real dork. In addition to being a cowardly little worm.
.
well you know the drill, when in Rome..........
ouch!!! as compared to a heroic worm or brave worm?
But you would be exactly the same in Rome. You're incapable of being anything but a dolt. So quit telling us you're putting on an act. Your posting history tells us otherwise.
... and I like cyber f**k the males. -- Ponchy
I recall conversations we had where we both marveled at how America has been able to create a form of near - totalitarianism without any of the state terror apparatus that the Nazis or Soviets had in place and in fact can cloak this manipulation of the system so well we still think we are free when we are in fact enslaved. Though it looks like the republic is going through every stage of empire I think we are in the phase pre crossing of the Rubicon with a corrupt republic allowing an adventurous elite to roam another land for conquest without any official oversight like was seen when Julius and his legions were in Gaul and on the British Isle.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
People would respect you more if you would say something clever.
... and I like cyber f**k the males. -- Ponchy
Thats kind of like a guy who just killed his parents asking for mercy because he is an orphan isn't it????
Daily Kos is the gold standard (I am not there as a poster) in terms of people posting thoughtful analysis. That used to be how Freerepublic was in the first years until Bush was elected. If Freerepublic was a country then I experianced what it would have been like to live in a Stalinist enviornment complete with group think and purges. I want to read all sources, I want to have lively debates - I am open minded - I beg to be confronted and defend a position - through such a connvesation can arise the truth. I never can understand the Freeper mind think that refuses to read contrary opinions - I don't mean debate contrary opinions - I mean refuse to even read an article unless it has that 'BARF!' tag - which makes it OK to read by the sheep.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
most of what you impugn is only what you have implied or assigned yourself ........ respect from someone you do not respect is suspect ........ too bad your not as smart as you think ...........
Not much too you is there. Where would you be without mindless name calling? If you think I'm wrong, find one post where you did anything but. You can't. That pretty much characterizes you. Now prove me right and come back with another bit of juvenile drool.
.
-. --- .-- / -.-- --- ..- / .... .- ...- . / -- . / .- - / .- / -- --- .- . ... . / -.-. --- -.. . / - .-. .- -. ... .-.. .- - --- .-. / ... .. - . LOL
look at #234 where I simply agreed with a point Destro made ...... then manure- va jumped in with her narrow minded silliness .......... then you obviously decided she was losing and needed help and jumped in ....... then ask who is the worm, dork, or whatever ......... are you a PETA member too?????
are --- ((you!!)) .... byeltsin??
... and I like cyber f**k the males. -- Ponchy
now i'm curious. what was the situation where hot diet pepsi would be in such high demand?
You mis-spelled Morse as 'MOAESE.' (Remember I know IMC from the U.S. Army. (You have an extra space in your 'R' making it an 'A' and an 'E'.) ;-D
I didn't - the translator did. I just copied and pasted the result to the text I input.
Why 'It is a Republic's' dogs walk funny
--- -.-/ .. --- ---/ .- -.-. -.-. . .--. -/ - .... .- - ;-)
midnight, darker than jet black ........ international waters ........... big storm ........ small cruise ship .......... lots of tossing and rolling ........ broken fuel line, diesel leak spraying onto hot engines, fire, .......... drifted 3 days with no power and nothing fresh .......... serving crew knew they were soon out of a job and were stealing selling and looking out for themselves (thats where the $20 bucks a six pack hot caffeine free diet pepsi's took place) .......... we were told something about International Law prevented evacuation ........... "Lord of the Flies" came to mind ............. all passengers separated into groups ......... lounge lizzards, deck ducks, roof rats ......... every group protected their stuff and themselves against the others ........ got our money back and another free cruise .......... ruined us as a cruise without a fire is just plain dull
Peyote solidities of halls ..... backyard green tree cemetery dawns ..... wine drunkenness over the rooftops ...... storefront boroughs of teahead joyride neon blinking traffic light ..... sun and moon and tree vibrations in the roaring winter dusks of Brooklyn ...... ashcan rantings and kind king light of mind ...... who chained themselves to subways for the endless ride from Battery to holy Bronx on benzedrine ...... until the noise of wheels and children brought them down shuddering ...... mouth-wracked and battered bleak of brain ..... all drained of brilliance in the drear light of Zoo
... and I like cyber f**k the males. -- Ponchy
But I never said or implied that I wished in any way to drop out of the political system.
"Don't Steal, the government hates competition."
Lol. Witness Iraq. Witness the New Orleans debacle last year. In combat the average American citizen-rifleman is equal to any trained soldier in the world. If the republic falls I do agree with you that the Pentagon and the oligarchs will immediately seize large areas of land, on the east and west coasts, and Florida...maybe Texas too. But the heartland will not fall. You'd be amazed at what the rural yokels can do if they get riled from their stupor.
Accepting used LP accounts and donations in cash.
Fitting that you would quote a pedophile when addressing our local RNC shill.
wow, that was some experience. it is reminiscent of LOTF.
Then you are a loon who wasted time and bandwidth.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Until his fat ass has to hump a klik. If the Southern youngbloods did not resort to guerrilla warfare back when he could live in the woods with little problem I doubt this generation of fat assed couch sitting Americans will. In addition the insurgents in Iraq have allies in neighboring nations - who will arm this fictional American insurgency? And unlike Iraq they have no problems in manpower drawing power here if need be (use of police, etc.). Se excuse me while I laugh at your 'Red Dawn' like fantasies.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Why should he have to "hump a klik?" The man is defending his county not his country. Also, obesity among younger, red state males is over-rated. We're talking about deer hunters, ex-military guys, and blue collar laborers. "If the Southern youngbloods did not resort to guerrilla warfare back when he could live in the woods with little problem I doubt this generation of fat assed couch sitting Americans will." We're not talking about fat, sissified meterosexuals from New York, here. We're talking about about mid-western and southern rural blue-collar hicks. "In addition the insurgents in Iraq have allies in neighboring nations - who will arm this fictional American insurgency?" We're armed, already. "Se excuse me while I laugh at your 'Red Dawn' like fantasies." Laugh away. It probably won't happen...but it could...very easily.
Accepting used LP accounts and donations in cash.
Yes, you are, you accuse people of being whatever you and your GI Joe buddy would like them to be in your fairy tale world instead of taking time to read what they post!
"Don't Steal, the government hates competition."
Those are transplants from so called Red States and mostly live in Manhattan - native New Yorkers are more akin to Tony Soprano.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
You just wasted a conversation based on something I did not write down and you did not understand. Thanks for nothing.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
I am laughing - - 'Wolverines!!!'
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Who wouldn't last a day south of the Mason-Dixon line.
Accepting used LP accounts and donations in cash.
Oh, you mean the land that lost the Civil War?
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
That's the one.
Accepting used LP accounts and donations in cash.
Yup.
"Don't Steal, the government hates competition."
-- The Redheadedstranger auditioning for American Idol and trying to deal with the blame thing when judged.
I buy gold (and silver) for one reason. That reason is that things are about to change.
#2. To: Destro (#1)
"Selling gold and silver to people as a protection from currency crash is the act of fools or scam artists."
#3. To: Jethro Tull, HOUNDDAWG, Starwind, Arete, innieway, ladybug, Ada, BTP Holdings, IndieTx, Ferret Mike, bluedogtxn, Esso, angle, Pissed Off Janitor, a vast right wing conspirator, mehitable, who knows what evil, tom007, randge, Sam Houston, hammerdown (#0)
#4. To: Destro (#1)
His supermarket and gas station accept gold and silver bars?
#5. To: christine (#4)
#6. To: wakeup (#2)
I guess it was just a coincidence that the value of the dollar has gone down while the value of silver and gold have gone up.
#7. To: christine, HOUNDDAWG (#4)
#8. To: christine (#4)
boy, are you clueless.
#9. To: christine, *unUsual Suspects* (#0)
#10. To: BTP Holdings, christine (#8)
That's why the filter is active. ;0)
#11. To: Destro (#7)
#12. To: wakeup (#11)
Not so, folks will trade what you need for gold and silver. It is a valuable commodity just like a can of beans.
#13. To: Destro (#7)
#14. To: christine (#13)
(Edited)
gold and silver are not liquid?
#15. To: christine (#13)
it is not how easily it is convertible to paper currency since ALL paper currencies fail over time.
#16. To: Destro (#12)
#17. To: wakeup (#16)
(Edited)
Doubt it unless you happen to have a jeweler on hand that can determine that the gold and silver being sold to you is of the purity claimed."
#18. To: Destro (#17)
#19. To: Destro (#17)
#20. To: Destro (#1)
His supermarket and gas station accept gold and silver bars?
#21. To: Destro (#1)
Selling gold and silver to people as a protection from currency crash is the act of fools or scam artists.
#22. To: Destro, christine (#12)
Doubt it unless you happen to have a jeweler on hand that can determine that the gold and silver being sold to you is of the purity claimed.
#23. To: Destro (#10)
Why? Are you afraid of other opinions? Freeper bot mentality on display - hating to hear contradictory information - limited world view, etc.
#24. To: Arete (#18)
However, if the need ever arises for you to phyically move, you probably won't need a U-Haul truck for your gold and silver while 30 cases of Spam could be a problem.
#25. To: Destro (#1)
Selling gold and silver to people as a protection from currency crash is the act of fools or scam artists.
#26. To: wakeup (#19)
Never happen. He will have learned the value of lots of items as they are offered to him in trade. Come on guy, merchants will catch on quick. This is a non-issue.
#27. To: noone222 (#20)
My grocer takes silver ... pays spot/oz bullion or spot plus the premium on silver dollars.
#28. To: Destro (#24)
#29. To: Sonovademocrat (#23)
#30. To: YertleTurtle (#25)
You think paper is money?
#31. To: Destro (#24)
You can carry it, sure but will the people you meet along this hypothetical Apocalypse road trade for it?
#32. To: Sonovademocrat, Destro (#23)
Why? Are you afraid of other opinions? Freeper bot mentality on display - hating to hear contradictory information - limited world view, etc.
#33. To: Destro (#29)
So the only opinion you will hear is one that does not offend your sensibilities?
#34. To: Destro (#27)
Not all of us live in Survivalist enclaves.
#35. To: noone222 (#34)
Well, just keep on fuckin up ... it's your choice.
#36. To: Arete (#31)
History says they will.
#37. To: arete, *unUsual Suspects* (#12)
If the worst case scenario envisioned by the gold and silver end times enthusiasts pans out you are better off stocking up on bullets or cigarettes or canned goods to trade.
#38. To: BTP Holdings, Sonovademocrat (#32)
Destro just don't get it. One of his favorite ploys is to try to reverse the situation and accuse others of what he is doing himself. That, indeed, is a freeper bot characteristic, and the mark of a disinfo artist. That is why we call him Disinfo Destro.
#39. To: Sonovademocrat, Destro (#33)
So the only opinion you will hear is one that does not offend your sensibilities?
#40. To: Destro (#38)
unlike you 'bots.
#41. To: christine, noone222 (#35)
#42. To: Destro (#30)
#43. To: Destro (#41)
I have lived through 2 New York black outs - a European right wing dictatorship, 9/11 a Balkan war with jihadis as well as a lifetime on the New York Subway -
#44. To: BTP Holdings, Sonovademocrat (#39)
Destro is another keyboard commando. I seriously doubt he could hold his own, one-on-one, with anyone who has been in the trenches. Been there, done that. And kicked enough ass to know the difference. ;0)
#45. To: Arete (#42)
Precious metals provided among the heftiest returns of any asset class in 2006, and prices were expected to stay strong in the new year as investors continue pumping money into the sector through futures and new commodity-backed securities, analysts said.
#46. To: noone222 (#43)
#47. To: Destro (#41)
I am pretty sure I can outlive anything you guys have gone through from living in your hole in the wall communes.
#48. To: christine (#47)
#49. To: Destro (#46)
I am sure life out in the sticks is fine too.
#50. To: Destro (#45)
(Edited)
only gold as survival money
#51. To: noone222 (#49)
(Edited)
#52. To: Arete (#50)
Survival happens in real time every damned day kid, you ought to know that. If you wait for the PTB to ring a bell for you, you are screwed.
#53. To: Destro (#51)
Besides, the Europeans airlifted their citizens out of New Orleans' Katrina nightmare so I am pretty sure since I am also an EU citizen I can get out when the time comes easier than most
#54. To: Destro (#52)
Maybe a year later when some sort of post Mad Max like world emerges gold may be the currency of choice but during the Mad Max period I don't think gold will be worth much.
#55. To: Arete (#54)
Differences of opinion are okay by me. The only thing that I'm absolutely sure of is that I don't want to be holding a lot of the government's ponzi scheme paper if the music stops.
#56. To: noone222 (#53)
Why wait ...
#57. To: Destro (#55)
initial mad max period
#58. To: Destro (#48)
#59. To: christine, Destro (#58)
(My Big Fat Greek Wedding)
---Henry Kissinger, New York Times, October 28, 1973
#60. To: noone222 (#34)
Destro...
#61. To: wakeup (#60)
Twentieth- century secularism tends to affirm that man does not need God. But beware! this godless philosophy of human society will lead only to unrest, animosity, unhappiness, war, and world-wide disaster.
#62. To: Destro (#45)
I am not talking about investments - only gold as survival money.
#63. To: noone222 (#61)
(Edited)
"Twentieth- century secularism tends to affirm that man does not need God. But beware! this godless philosophy of human society will lead only to unrest, animosity, unhappiness, war, and world-wide disaster."
#64. To: DeaconBenjamin (#37)
I wonder -- were the absurdly high taxes imposed on cigarettes to reduce their attractiveness as a substitute currency? This utilization of cigarettes was evidently common in some Soviet bloc nations towards the end.
#65. To: Tauzero (#64)
Ciggies are ultimately smoked. Built-in disinflation / supply control. ;)
#66. To: DeaconBenjamin (#65)
"in the 1980s, cartons of Kent cigarettes had replaced currency as the preferred medium of exchange in Romania."
#67. To: Destro (#15)
or the guy who shows up with canned goods and cigarettes or bullets
#68. To: christine, all (#4)
#69. To: Destro, Christine, All (#30)
You think paper is money?
You write a note to Bill (your local grocer) saying "Hey Bill, please let Tommy have a gallon of milk and a loaf of bread and I'll pay you for the milk and bread the next time I'm in the store". You sign it Destro.
You give the note to Tommy and he goes to the store. Bill knows you're an honorable guy so he accepts the note and gives the milk and bread to Tommy. Tommy now has possession of the goods. At this moment in time, who is the legal owner of the milk and bread?
Is it:
(A)Bill the grocer (since he still hasn't been paid for it)
(B)Tommy (since he is the one in possession of it) or
(C)Destro (since he is the one that wrote and signed the note)
No State shall make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts
Or later on when we went off the silver standard - you could take a $1 Silver Certificate to the bank and trade it in for a $1 silver coin. OR you could take either one to the gas station and buy 4 gallons of gas with it. Today you take a $1 bill to the gas station and all you'll get is a little over a third of a gallon of gas; BUT if you take the value of that silver dollar into the station you can buy nearly 5 gallons. If anything the gas has gotten cheaper!!! But those damned FRNs have sure devalued a bunch!!!
#70. To: christine (#0)
(Edited)
Selling gold and silver to people as a protection from currency crash is the act of fools or scam artists.
It does not matter because gold and silver - unless you can store and protect them at home
Why? Are you afraid of other opinions? Freeper bot mentality on display - hating to hear contradictory information - limited world view, etc.
Running every 'get out of Dodge' scenario still shows gold to be problematic in terms of carrying wealth in this day and age. You can carry it, sure but will the people you meet along this hypothetical Apocalypse road trade for it?
Not all of us live in Survivalist enclaves.
You and your family are welcomed to stay in my family's island villa (as small as it is) on the Greek isles anytime whenthe end for America comes.
that gold IN THE SHORT TERM gold would not be as liquid as some hope it will be.
#71. To: Randge (#70)
#72. To: ladybug (#70)
You may want to consider relocating to one for the above mentioned reasons.
#73. To: noone222, wakeup (#61)
#74. To: DeaconBenjamin, Tauzero, BTP Holdings, Sonovademocrat, noone222, christine (#65)
"in the 1980s, cartons of Kent cigarettes had replaced currency as the preferred medium of exchange in Romania."
#75. To: Destro (#72)
In any case I view survivalists like I view the militia movements - dress up fantasists.
#76. To: innieway, Destro (#75)
In any case I view survivalists like I view the militia movements - dress up fantasists.
#77. To: noone222 (#76)
You won't get any argument from those that failed to survive !
#78. To: innieway (#75)
Well, then all I have to say is that I am very glad that I desended from "fantasists" as if they had not been such, they may not have survived the Great Depression, and thus being the case, I would not be in existence to listen to your drivel.
#79. To: noone222, innieway, christine (#76)
#80. To: Destro (#78)
There was no militia/survivalist movement during the great depression so what fantasy are you talking about?
#81. To: ladybug (#80)
(Edited)
OK schmuck, there you go putting words in peoples mouths again, I don't believe that he mentioned anything about a militia mentality during the great depression.
#82. To: Destro (#79)
You know very well that 'Survivalist' entails a very specific type - the go to the mountains and live in a bunker with stocks of arms and supplies and wait for the end preparing you shoot at people trying to take your stuff from you.
#83. To: noone222 (#82)
(Edited)
There must be a genetic marker that causes some to maintain a stubborn resistance to tyranny. Many otherwise intelligent people find it necessary to fight a gargantuan enemy with little promise of winning, out of principle. This "type" of person you call a fantasist, I call a loyal citizen.
#84. To: noone222 (#82)
We should make a point of invading D.C. on July 4th with a massive number of people just to see what happens
#85. To: Destro, Noone222, Christine, Lodwick, BTP Holdings, Indie TX, HOUNDDAWG, wakeup, All (#83)
(Edited)
Noone222:
There must be a genetic marker that causes some to maintain a stubborn resistance to tyranny. Many otherwise intelligent people find it necessary to fight a gargantuan enemy with little promise of winning, out of principle. This "type" of person you call a fantasist, I call a loyal citizen.
No. Survivalists are drop outs
(1) He does have his boundaries which he cannot overstep.
(2) He is just biding his time to be put in line for a bullet to the head by his master.
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root."
He was not commenting on mere facts, nor of natural laws, but on the caliber of such men; that they would in so doing also throw away the liberty of their fellow man, and thus no longer merited the benefits of free men.
This is the category in which YOU (along with Starwind and Nolu_Chan) fall - that in your complicity towards government's slow but ever-growing intrusions on our liberties and God-given rights, you no longer merit the benefits of free men; which brings up a quote by Samuel Adams which seems very fitting for you, Starwind, and Nolu_Chan:
" Common sense is very uncommon. Common sense is in spite of, not as a result of education. Common sense is instinct, and enough is genius. Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he need more of it than he already has. Common sense is the knack of seeing things as they are, and doing things as they ought to be done."
#86. To: innieway (#85)
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition
In a CorporoFascist capitalist society, there is no money in peace, freedom, or a healthy population, and therefore, no incentive to achieve these - - IndieTX
#87. To: Destro (#81)
Who knew you knew Yiddish?
So since that leaves out the militia what was the survivalist aspect that person was talking about in the 30s?
No. Survivalists are drop outs aka 'retreaters'* - albeit heavily armed drop outs. Citizens are actively engaged in the affairs of the state - hence the origin of the word 'citizen' being an active member of the 'city'.
#88. To: Destro (#83)
For a time in the 1970s, the terms "survivalist" and "retreater" were used interchangeably.
ELROND: They will answer to the King of Gondor!
#89. To: innieway, IndieTX, BTP Holdings (#85)
It is fitting to remember the words of Henry David Thoreau: "There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root."
ELROND: They will answer to the King of Gondor!
#90. To: Tauzero (#89)
#91. To: innieway, Noone222, Christine, Lodwick, BTP Holdings, Indie TX, HOUNDDAWG, wakeup, All (#85)
resistance to tyranny
#92. To: ladybug (#87)
(Edited)
But I am doomed Destro said so, because I am an active member of my community, I AM DOOMED!!!
#93. To: Destro (#91)
Retreating (as Survivalists were first called retreaters)
survivalist
Function: noun
: a person who advocates or practices survivalism; especially : one who has prepared to survive in the anarchy of an anticipated breakdown of society
Function: noun
an attitude, policy, or practice based on the primacy of survival as a value
Function: noun
1 a : the act or fact of living or continuing longer than another person or thing b : the continuation of life or existence
2 : one that survives
Function: verb
1 : to remain alive or in existence : live on
2 : to continue to function or prosper
3 : to continue to exist or live after (an event)[survived the earthquake]
#94. To: innieway (#93)
#95. To: Destro (#12)
Doubt it unless you happen to have a jeweler on hand that can determine that the gold and silver being sold to you is of the purity claimed.
#96. To: Destro (#55)
That is why I am saying during the initial mad max period that instead of gold I think stuff like Spam and cigs and bullets will be the currency of choice.
#97. To: Destro (#55)
Spam and cigs and bullets will be the currency of choice.
#98. To: Diana (#67)
or the guy who shows up with canned goods and cigarettes or bullets
#99. To: Destro (#78)
There was no militia/survivalist movement during the great depression so what fantasy are you talking about? In fact the last I remember Hoover ordered the army to shoot at the closest thing to a militia movement of that era the so called 'Bonus Marchers'.
#100. To: Axenolith (#99)
As for the bonus marchers, they were WWI vets trying to get a compensation certificate paid out early during the depression. They were unarmed, and Hoover never ordered them shot, just forced out of DC where they were becoming an unsanitary problem...
#101. To: Axenolith (#99)
Dude, in the teens and twenties everyone in the Appalachians was essentially a "militia/survivalist".
#102. To: Destro (#94)
I refuted the fact that being a 'retreater' is being a good citizen per whoever wrote that.
#103. To: Arete (#102)
(Edited)
So you are pretty much saying over and over again that anyone who chooses individual independence and self-reliance over participation in a corrupted fascist political system
#104. To: Destro (#103)
Retreating is not resistance. It is avoidance.
#105. To: Arete (#104)
There is no real meanful public participation in the current system.
#106. To: Destro (#105)
#107. To: Arete (#106)
You are a very absolutist thinker - black or white.
#108. To: Destro (#107)
I don't understand why you are identifying this behavior of yours (which is commendable) with being a 'survivalist-retreater'?
#109. To: Arete (#108)
(Edited)
I'm stating to think a propaganist/shill.
#110. To: Arete (#108)
The idea that survivalists are either "retreaters" or not good citizens is pure bullshit.
#111. To: Destro (#109)
I repeat "survivalist-retreater"
#112. To: Arete (#111)
No shit . . . and no one fell for it. Now take a step back and consider who your audience is.
#113. To: Destro (#112)
'Retreater' was what the Survivalists were once self-called.
#114. To: Arete (#113)
So a small fraction of the whole defines the whole group? I don't think so.
#115. To: Destro (#114)
my intent on use the phrase above is to narrow down who I am describing
#116. To: Arete (#115)
(Edited)
#117. To: Destro (#116)
men and women so dispirited they refuse even to think they can defeat the forces of the state and head off the 'end'.
#118. To: Arete (#117)
#119. To: Destro (#118)
#120. To: Arete (#119)
Dispirited doesn't automatically qualify them as either retreatists or survivalists.
#121. To: Destro (#92)
There you go again putting words into my mouth -
Survivalist is a specific type of person/movement - surviving the Great Depression is not being a 'Survivalist'.
A survivalist is a person who anticipates and prepares for a future disruption in local, regional or worldwide social or political order. Survivalists often prepare for this anticipated disruption by learning skills (e.g., emergency medical training), stockpiling food and water, or building structures that will help them to survive (e.g., an underground shelter). The specific preparations made by survivalists depend on the nature of the anticipated disruption, some of the most commonly anticipated being:
2. A disaster brought about by the activities of humankind: chemical spills, release of radioactive materials, or war.
3. General collapse of society, resulting from the unavailability of electricity, fuel, food, and water.
4. Widespread chaos, or some other apocalyptic event.Where did I write being an active community member leads to your doom?
Here is the comment you made that I facetiously replied to in order to illustrate how ridiculously ignorant your posts may seem to the reader, no matter how perfectly they make sense to you: No. Survivalists are drop outs aka 'retreaters'*
If my only chance of surviving an event is to drop out or retreat, I would far rather become a statistic. In my humble opinion, I believe that there would be a lesser chance of surviving such an event if you respond by leaving shelter and stores of food behind for the sake of running. And lastly, if being a drop-out or a retreater has anything to do with being a survivalist, hence practicing the ability to survive, I must be blind, because I fail the see that they are unfailingly intertwined. I am saying that not resisting a corrupted fascist political system is being a bad citizen.
#122. To: ladybug (#121)
#123. To: christine (#122)
very well articulated.
#124. To: ladybug (#121)
There is one form of "retreat" that I condone %100. That is retreat from the system that is wrongfully and unlawful abusing the citizens that have been faithfully following. The longer people blindly slave for our government, the more of our rights that are forfeited.
#125. To: Destro (#124)
#126. To: Destro (#124)
Instead of trying to change the system you are dropping out of it - already admitting defeat.
1. You can not get a drivers license without a SSN - so the state looses 10% of its revenue from drivers licenses.
I could continue on all day about the repercussions that this would inflict, but right there I highlighted three of the major one's that would start demanding changes, the individual states, the banking industry, and the insurance industry. The voice of any one of the above is much louder than the voices of 100,000 citizens. They have either people already in the house or congress, or lobbyists there to influence the house and congress.
2. You cannot obtain insurance on your vehicle without a drivers license - so the insurance company's lose 10% of their business.
3. In many states you cannot renew your license plates on your vehicle without insurance, so the state is again losing 10%
4. Without license plates, insurance, and a drivers license, you dare not drive your vehicle very far from home - so you purchase less gas and oil for your vehicle. Also, it will take longer for your vehicle to wear out, therefore you are not running right out to buy the newest car on the market. More lost revenue's in the oil and car industries.
5. Without out a SSN, you cannot take out bank loans, obtain a credit card, or have a checking account. This means that you have to pay cash for everything, and the banking industry is no longer making interest on you, or checking fees either.
#127. To: Destro (#124)
Take for example this article - you fear fiat money collapse. Instead of organizing to get the govt to follow the will of the majority and back the dollar with gold reserves you all engage in the alternative of hording gold as the alternative.
#128. To: Arete (#127)
I personally don't believe that there is any chance that our totally corrupted government will ever return to something like a gold standard,
#129. To: ladybug (#128)
#130. To: Arete (#129)
The expression, "They work for us" is one of the biggest lies ever told
#131. To: ladybug (#130)
Option number two, in order for an armed rebellion to work, we would need the vast majority of the country armed and on our side, and massive amounts of organization.
#132. To: Destro (#101)
In fact the last I remember Hoover ordered the army to shoot at the closest thing to a militia movement of that era the so called 'Bonus Marchers'.
...in the teens and twenties everyone in the Appalachians was essentially a "militia/survivalist". Merely because there wasn't a lot of violence and death doesn't mean they weren't armed, prepared and capable of generating their own food and operating in localized economies.
#133. To: ladybug (#130)
Like hitting the pocket books of not only the government, but of banking and insurance people as well.
#134. To: Axenolith (#132)
#135. To: Axenolith, ladybug (#133)
buy in-country manufatured products
#136. To: Destro, Axenolith (#135)
(Edited)
Why buy American? Buy foreign made and kill off American manufacturing even quicker - eliminating a revenue base for the Feds. Buy Chinese whenever you can - no quicker way to eliminate the power of America.
#137. To: Destro (#134)
This 'Survivalist' is not the same as people who live off the earth because they are poor dirt farmers
#138. To: ladybug (#137)
#139. To: ladybug (#136)
#140. To: ladybug (#136)
#141. To: Destro (#140)
You are confused
than starving the beast of manufacturing revenues and empowering a nation that can stand up to the USA overseas.
#142. To: Destro (#140)
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies."
#143. To: Destro (#138)
Appalachian like poverty is not chosen by those people nor does it have a political rational - i.e. their poverty is not based on them wanting to belong to a political/social movement.
So what does that make a family who has chosen to be "poor" by eliminating debt and also working away from the house less (hence living on less income) so they can be "dirt farmers" in order to eat healthier and be prepared for an economic breakdown?
#144. To: christine (#139)
you are a woman of substance and a fine patriot. ;)
#145. To: ladybug (#141)
Have you ever considered that the people who sell these goods still pay income taxes
#146. To: ladybug (#141)
What American in their would want another government to forcefully take over our country.
#147. To: noone222 (#142)
Correction: "The desire to rule is the mother of Destro". Do you make stupid remarks just to be noticed ?
#148. To: Destro (#146)
Only a delusional American thinks the Chinese will invade America - meanwhile America invades everywhere and sends her fleet to China's shores every now and then in a show of force.
Buy Chinese whenever you can - no quicker way to eliminate the power of America.
and another: If you are for the destruction of the Federalies then I see no better way to destroy the beast by starvation than starving the beast of manufacturing revenues and empowering a nation that can stand up to the USA overseas.
#149. To: ladybug (#148)
#150. To: Arete (#149)
Like it or not, the center of the economic universe is shifting to Asia
#151. To: ladybug, Arete (#148)
#152. To: Destro (#112)
'Retreater' was what the Survivalists were once self-called.
#153. To: Destro (#151)
You types advocate resistance by starving the beast of revenue - so I say cut the penny anty stuff - go for the big revenue stream from corporations and support non American industry. That will kill off the Federal beast quicker then living in the woods eating bark.
#154. To: Redheadedstranger (#152)
Retreater' was what the Survivalists were once self-called.
#155. To: Destro (#103)
Retreating is not resistance. It is avoidance.
#156. To: Destro, Arete (#109)
I repeat "survivalist-retreater" to be more accurate - it is something I find Americans lack - the ability for the current American mind to think accurately so I need to clarify each statement to the max.
#157. To: ladybug, Destro, Arete (#126)
It is not breaking any laws, violating any ones rights, I am not running off to some cave to be a hermit.
#158. To: Destro, Axenolith (#134)
This 'Survivalist' is not the same as people who live off the earth because they are poor dirt farmers like the Appalachians. Any attempt by you to link this movement to just natural skills acquired by people who live off the earth but have no political or ideological bent to their being mountain folks is disingenuous.
#159. To: Destro (#151)
including the Chinese who think they are fine with maybe 200 nukes rather than the thousands we Americans have?
#160. To: Diana (#155)
If masses of blood-thirsty gangs are charging towards you and your loved ones
#161. To: Destro (#160)
#162. To: Destro (#157)
#163. To: ladybug (#148)
(Edited)
You yourself were advocating buying Chinese in order to empower a nation that can stand up the the USA overseas,
#164. To: Diana (#162)
(Edited)
I was NOT implying that you are a homosexual if that is what you are so angry about,
#165. To: Diana (#162)
I was NOT implying that you are a homosexual if that is what you are so angry about,
#166. To: Diana (#155)
If masses of blood-thirsty gangs are charging towards you and your loved ones, would you stand there
#167. To: BTP Holdings (#166)
#168. To: noone222 (#165)
#169. To: Destro (#52)
(Edited)
I don't understand why people are hostile to the notion that if our money fails - and again I don't doubt the possibility of the dollar melting down - that gold IN THE SHORT TERM gold would not be as liquid as some hope it will be.
When they come for your guns, take theirs.
#170. To: christine, Destro (#58)
greek's my favorite food, btw!
When they come for your guns, take theirs.
#171. To: noone222 (#167)
Look ay this homepage
#172. To: ladybug (#154)
#173. To: Redheadedstranger (#172)
I have been in the survivalist movement for over twenty years
#174. To: Redheadedstranger (#172)
I have been in the survivalist movement for over twenty years, and have only heard this term used once or twice, and always in a negative fashion by non- survivalists.
#175. To: Diana (#157)
There have always been people who were loners who wanted to leave society, get away from people and become mountain-men or just go to the backwoods and live off the land. No one ever suggested such people were bad citizens, maybe a bit eccentric,
#176. To: ladybug (#175)
#177. To: BTP Holdings (#171)
Look ay this homepage
destro
#178. To: Diana (#176)
Destro the Brat has a home in another country so he does not have to worry about such things.
#179. To: noone222 (#163)
Destro is a thoroughbred member of the Synagogue of Satan, and ... nothing but an argumentative, ignorant, narrow-minded (motherfucker) schmuck who cannot even stick to his/her own argument.
#180. To: Diana (#162)
#181. To: Critter (#169)
I have to agree with you there. But not preparing for the post mad max period is kinda stupid, no?
#182. To: BTP Holdings, noone222 (#171)
#183. To: ladybug, Redheadedstranger (#174)
#184. To: Destro (#183)
Don't buy gold reserves to prepare for a future melt down - pool your money and organize grass roots movements to prevent a melt down.
#185. To: ladybug (#184)
And buying foreign goods is your solution??
#186. To: Destro (#185)
#187. To: Dakmar (#186)
(Edited)
Frederick Douglass: I prayed for twenty years but received no answer until I prayed with my legs.
Benjamin Franklin: The moral and religious system which Jesus Christ transmitted to us is the best the world has ever seen, or can see.
#188. To: Destro (#187)
#189. To: Dakmar (#188)
and always found being civilized a sensible solution to petty tribal conflict
#190. To: Dakmar (#188)
Diderot: A deist is someone who has not lived long enough to become an atheist. (paraphrased)
#191. To: Redheadedstranger (#189)
If, instead of seeing faults in others, we look within ourselves, we are loving God.
#192. To: Destro (#190)
To love God in the most practical way is to love our fellow beings. If we feel for others in the same way as we feel for our own dear ones, we love God.
#193. To: Destro (#185)
Listen, I realise you are a dimwit
#194. To: Dakmar (#191)
If, instead of seeing faults in others, we look within ourselves, we are loving God.
#195. To: Redheadedstranger (#194)
(Edited)
#196. To: Destro (#180)
#197. To: Destro (#180)
#198. To: ladybug (#193)
OK oh wise one, what in the hell is you solution
#199. To: Dakmar (#195)
#200. To: Redheadedstranger (#199)
philosophize
#201. To: Diana, Redheadedstranger (#196)
(Edited)
If there were a major economic collapse it could be dangerous to be out in the streets, when Katrina hit New Orleans it was a nightmare to be there
#202. To: Destro (#198)
Uphold the Constitution against the left AND the right.
#203. To: ladybug (#202)
No where in the constitution does it say that I have to have a Social Security Number
#204. To: Destro (#201)
The solution is to elect people who know how to get things done.
#205. To: Destro (#203)
It does not say you can't have one either. But the solution is not to go to the woods and run away but to try and get the law changed through the constitutional system.
#206. To: ladybug (#204)
#207. To: ladybug (#205)
But I do not want one, can't I be a good citizen with or without one???
#208. To: Destro (#206)
OK, so you give up.
#209. To: Destro (#207)
You can only be a good citizen if you are INVOLVED - pro or con it does not mater - as long as it is INVOLVEMENT.
#210. To: Destro (#201)
The solution is to elect people who know how to get things done. Maybe some Americans of the right wing should think less of surviving in some armed camp and elect men who don't spend this nation's wealth on the military but on public infrastructures.
#211. To: ladybug (#209)
#212. To: ladybug (#209)
(Edited)
Why can't I be a good, involved citizen without that number???
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition
In a CorporoFascist capitalist society, there is no money in peace, freedom, or a healthy population, and therefore, no incentive to achieve these - - IndieTX
#213. To: Destro (#201)
#214. To: Destro (#211)
Good for you - since I never brought up the SS system not I - I will say that you did right by you.
#215. To: Dakmar (#200)
#216. To: IndieTX (#212)
Because to folk like neocon rats and commie drats, involvement means being forced to donate your MONEY to TheStateInc. It has nothing whatsoever to do with altruism, i.e. being a "good/involved" citizen. The politicowhores do not want us involved and they have proven it time and again. Get too involved and they'll report you to DHS Komrade, The time for working within a system that doesn't work is over. Revolution.
#217. To: Dakmar (#210)
#218. To: Redheadedstranger (#217)
#219. To: Destro (#201)
The solution is to elect people who know how to get things done. Maybe some Americans of the right wing should think less of surviving in some armed camp and elect men who don't spend this nation's wealth on the military but on public infrastructures.
#220. To: ladybug, Destro (#209)
But I am against having a SSN, I don't have to start a war over it, all I have to do is fill out a form and disassociate myself from the number.
#221. To: Dakmar (#218)
#222. To: Minerva (#221)
#223. To: Dakmar (#222)
#224. To: Redheadedstranger (#217)
#225. To: Minerva (#223)
using me for a patsy saying their prayers foreign spies.
#226. To: ladybug (#214)
Ahh, but you called me a retreater and a bad citizen for wanting to give up my SSN earlier in this very thread.
#227. To: Dakmar (#225)
#228. To: Minerva (#227)
#229. To: Destro (#134)
You are a willful self deceiver.
#230. To: IndieTX, Redheadedstranger (#212)
The politicowhores do not want us involved and they have proven it time and again.
#231. To: Axenolith (#229)
#232. To: Destro (#138)
Appalachian like poverty is not chosen by those people nor does it have a political rational - i.e. their poverty is not based on them wanting to belong to a political/social movement.
#233. To: Destro (#231)
“Yes, but is this good for Jews?"
#234. To: Destro (#6)
If there was a total melt down in our money economy then barter would be the way the system would work and you would be better off stocking cigarettes and bullets to trade for food than gold.
#235. To: It Is A Republican (#234)
#236. To: Destro (#226)
Ahh, but you called me a retreater and a bad citizen for wanting to give up my SSN earlier in this very thread.
#121. To: Destro (#92)
#237. To: Minerva (#235)
#238. To: It Is A Republican (#237)
Hey manure-va, almost missed your post because you sent it to an unknown address. How is the sphincter and textile artist of imaginary history doing? You should be afraid of truth and justice this week.
#239. To: It Is A Republic (#237)
#240. To: Destro (#230)
And the solution is not to live in the woods eating bark waiting for the corrupt system to collapse - because it won't.
#241. To: Dakmar (#218)
#242. To: Minerva (#238)
#243. To: ladybug (#236)
#244. To: It Is A Republic (#242)
Oh manure-va, that was so rich. Keep playing with your fat quarters and try to stay away from reading people because you stink at it, like manure-va always does. You are the one displaying anger, injecting your hate filled self into a reply not to you. You always reference little boys. Are you a fag playing as the female?
#245. To: It Is A Republic (#242)
#246. To: Minerva (#244)
#247. To: Redheadedstranger (#240)
You think this civilization is going to last forever?
#248. To: It Is A Republic (#246)
Typical liberal BS from a liberal loser.
#249. To: Redheadedstranger (#240)
Exactly. We are standing by, ready to assume control. Why will we succeed if the system collapses? Because we have the most ammunition and gasoline.
#250. To: It Is A Republic (#246)
#251. To: It Is A Republic (#246)
#252. To: Minerva (#244)
You don't do well out of the echo chamber do you? A fearful little bully like yourself isn't capable of anything beyond hate, anger and silly, childish insults. But that's true of most of the GOP/Freeper crowd isn't it? Thanks for demonstrating it to the board.
#253. To: ... (#245)
#254. To: Redheadedstranger (#241)
It's not my fault. It's not your fault. But it is their fault.
#255. To: It Is A Republic (#253)
(Edited)
.-. ..- -.-. -.- -.-- --- ..- ... ... .... --- .-.. . .-.-.-
#256. To: Destro (#247)
#257. To: Minerva (#248)
#258. To: Destro (#252)
#259. To: It Is A Republic (#257)
you gotcha nothing sphincter mouth.....
#260. To: It Is A Republic (#253)
..-. ..- -.-. -.- -.-- --- ..- ... ... .... --- .-.. . .-.-.-
#261. To: Minerva (#259)
#262. To: ... (#260)
#263. To: It Is A Republic (#261)
well you know the drill, when in Rome........
#264. To: Burkeman1 (#256)
#265. To: It Is A Republic (#262)
ouch!!! as compared to a heroic worm or brave worm?
#266. To: ... (#245)
beat up on a woman?
#267. To: Minerva, burkeman1 (#258)
(Edited)
You have to really look for people who disagree with Paul Craig Roberts or Buchanan. When Buchanan stuff goes up on Daily Kos the people always say that they hate him but they have to agree with this one thing that he says - no matter how many times his stuff goes up.
#268. To: Minerva (#265)
#269. To: It Is A Republic (#266)
Thats kind of like a guy who just killed his parents asking for mercy because he is an orphan isn't it????
#270. To: ... (#260)
#271. To: ... (#269)
Not much too you is there. Where would you be without mindless name calling? If you think I'm wrong, find one post where you did anything but. You can't. That pretty much characterizes you.
#272. To: It Is A Republic (#268)
most of what you impugn is only what you have implied or assigned yourself ........ respect from someone you do not respect is suspect ........ too bad your not as smart as you think ...........
#273. To: It Is A Republic (#234)
A six pack of hot caffine free Diet Pepsi's were going for $20 bucks.
#274. To: Fred Mertz (#270)
#275. To: Ferret Mike (#274)
"now you have me at a morse code translator site" in Morse code is:
#276. To: Minerva (#272)
#277. To: Fred Mertz (#275)
(Edited)
#278. To: christine (#273)
#279. To: It Is A Republic (#278)
#280. To: Destro (#243)
My statement "Instead of trying to change the system you are dropping out of it" does not deal with social security but with dropping out of political activism
#281. To: Destro (#249)
Your gas and ammunition reserves are a joke compared to what even a post republic American system can muster.
#282. To: Minerva (#279)
Peyote solidities of halls ..... backyard green tree cemetery dawns ..... wine drunkenness over the rooftops ...... storefront boroughs of teahead joyride neon blinking traffic light ..... sun and moon and tree vibrations in the roaring winter dusks of Brooklyn ...... ashcan rantings and kind king light of mind ...... who chained themselves to subways for the endless ride from Battery to holy Bronx on benzedrine ...... until the noise of wheels and children brought them down shuddering ...... mouth-wracked and battered bleak of brain ..... all drained of brilliance in the drear light of Zoo
#283. To: It Is A Republic (#278)
#284. To: ladybug (#280)
But I never said or implied that I wished in any way to drop out of the political system.
#285. To: Redheadedstranger (#281)
(Edited)
Lol. Witness Iraq. Witness the New Orleans debacle last year. In combat the average American citizen-rifleman is equal to any trained soldier in the world.
#286. To: Destro (#285)
Until his fat ass has to hump a klik.
#287. To: Destro (#284)
you are a loon who wasted time and bandwidth.
#288. To: Redheadedstranger (#286)
We're not talking about fat, sissified meterosexuals from New York, here.
#289. To: ladybug (#287)
#290. To: Redheadedstranger (#286)
Laugh away.
#291. To: Destro (#288)
native New Yorkers are more akin to Tony Soprano.
#292. To: Redheadedstranger (#291)
Who wouldn't last a day south of the Mason-Dixon line.
#293. To: Destro (#292)
#294. To: Destro (#289)
#295. To: Minerva (#254)
"Ponchy, at some level it's probably your fault."
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