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Title: WTC 7 is 9/11 Key
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http://www.republic-news.org
URL Source: http://www.republic-news.org/archiv ... epub/154_kevin_potvin_9-11.htm
Published: Jan 9, 2007
Author: Kevin Potvin
Post Date: 2007-01-09 07:38:50 by Kamala
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Keywords: 911
Views: 1078
Comments: 95
Current Issue • January 4 to January 18, 2007 • No 154 9-11 WTC 7 is 9/11 key Those who poo-poo alternative theories about 9-11 should adopt the methods of science and try to explain what happened to the building that was not hit by a plane By Kevin Potvin You decide how much it's worth to you: By Kevin Potvin We’ve just witnessed, if not participated in, a massive conspiracy. Tens of millions of people every winter conspire in a flat out lie to fool millions more of society’s most gullible members when they all agree to keep silent about the truth about Santa Clause. Sure, you're laughing, that’s a funny example of a conspiracy, but there it is: those who deny there could possibly be massive conspiracies involving thousands of people or even millions, are wrong. Hannah Arendt, among so many others, wrote about how the German people were swept up in a conspiracy of lies about how the Jews among them were not human, and so deserved to be exterminated. When professional standing, personal prestige, working incomes, even ordinary, seldom-examined personal belief systems, are at stake, millions will engage in the common telling of lies if they find it necessary to do so to sustain their place in life. According to authors like Arendt, they don't even necessarily know they are telling lies. The conspiracy of 9-11 and the related conspiracy of its cover-up can never be compared to either Santa Claus or to the Holocaust. But these examples can serve to show that many people can be involved in a conspiracy, that many can be motivated to do so by base, ordinary concerns, and that many may not even be consciously aware of their participation in a conspiracy. For obvious reasons, the realization and admission by anyone with official authority to speak on the matter that some arm of the US government was responsible for the crimes of 9-11 would involve so much destruction of belief systems, not to mention security, incomes, and reputations, that blind instinct dictates the official version be upheld. Popular Mechanics magazine some time ago published a special issue that purported to destroy all versions of events of 9-11 besides the official version. Last week, the editor of the magazine wrote a newspaper editorial documenting the results: hilarious and disturbing attacks on him and his magazine by the so-called conspiracy theory industry. But what if, after launching its investigation, the magazine’s editors found that 9-11 was in fact an inside job, and reported this. Where do you think the scientists who made that conclusion, and the magazine's editorial staff who reported it, would be today? When we see the level of vitriol leveled at any questioning of the official version of events that creeps into mainstream media, with accusations of anti-patriotism, treason, and anti-Semitism, it is no surprise few mainstream newspapers will touch 9-11 conspiracies. The lack of reporting on alternative versions of 9-11 in the mainstream press is no evidence of their weaknesses. If anything, the lack of mention of strong alternative theories, except to laugh at the least plausible of them, attests to their strengths. In a book called Hitler's Scientists, we find personal diaries where German scientists caught up in Third Reich politics express serious misgivings about their work, misgivings that were nowhere evident in their published work, some of it very crucial to horrifying medical experimentation, mass murder systems, and nuclear science the Nazis were carrying out. Scientists who were sure there was nothing but dangerous hubris to Nazi theories about racial intelligence and other pillars of Third Reich philosophy nonetheless signed off on published documents extolling the virtues of those "scientific" claims. This was not some backward savage place, but the leading educated and scientific nation on the planet. Those who ask, How is it all those engineers, metallurgists, physicists and material scientists who produced both the Popular Mechanics 9-11 issue, as well as the official US government 9-11 report, could get it all so fundamentally wrong, need only remind themselves of the broad popular, as well as corporate and scholarly support, the Nazi regime engineered in Germany. 9-11 is an event that registers nowhere on the scale of something like Nazi Germany and its Holocaust. But that is a fact that makes the 9-11 conspiracy an easier thing to imagine than Germany in the 1930s. The basic known facts of 9-11 need to be reviewed, beginning with the most beguiling of them all: World Trade Center building number seven fell straight down later on that fateful day but registers in mainstream media as almost a forgotten footnote. This building was the same square footage of one of the towers, half their height but twice their footprint. It was huge, one of the biggest buildings in the world, and it was not struck by a plane nor badly hit by debris from the falling towers. It may have had a diesel fire on its lowest floors, a fire that could never burn hot enough to make the steel frame of the building melt. Yet the building fell down as though every one of its steel columns, back to front and side to side in this massive building, melted and collapsed all at once. The official Congressional investigation, as well as Popular Mechanics, simply said of building seven's collapse that no known theory explains it, and moved on. The best explanation, assuming we wish to have at least one, is to theorize that it was brought down by controlled demolition. And that means it must have been pre-wired to be brought down, and who would or could do that but someone with regular access, such as members of the many US government overt and covert agencies that maintained offices in this very building? And of course, a plan and the means to bring down building seven presupposes foreknowledge of 9-11 as a whole, and foreknowledge means participation. It is the fate of building seven that has generated most of the legitimate questioning of the official version of events of 9-11, and it was that incessant questioning that lead to both the official Congressional investigation and the special issue of Popular Mechanics magazine. Yet both investigations, after clouding the issue with brain-numbing detailed examination of the fate of the two towers, completely passed over and ignored questions about building seven. Five-and-a-half years later, the controlled demolition theory still remains the best theory about why building seven collapsed. Every scientist always goes with the best theory available on any phenomenon, and never accepts no theory at all. Every good scientist does, anyway. You decide how much it's worth to you:
Poster Comment: The bottom line is no changes in skyscraper fire codes have been passed. Highrises would be upgraded and retro fitted if there was this dire flaw. Fire has never resulted in a complete collapse of a structual steel highrise. The steel used in these buildings is massive and the PSI ratings are from 36,000-100,000. There never has been even a failure of a single primary vertical girder. Ever.
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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 93.
#1. To: Kamala, swarthyguy (#0)
I don't know any sky-rise that had 100K of Diesel fuel in storage tanks inside a building either that was cited by the fire dept as a potential fire hazard. Google 'Bob Herbert + Giuliani + "skybox bunker". The real key to 9/11 is the vast connections of American intel had and still has with jihadi organizations around the world. The men who carried out 9/11 were veterans of CIA backed jihadi armies in Bosnia, Kosovo and Chechnya and other places where pipeline routes and jihad campaigns overlap. Why did the govts intel mask the 9/11 cell (which they knew of and a few of these men were known CIA assets in the Bosnian war) and allow them to operate freely in the USA for so long? Did the American intel community want the 9/11 cell to succeed? Or were they blindsided by their own assets double crossing them and created this 'blowback'? Those are the real questions. The article above is designed to focus attention away from the scenario I mentioned and get people stuck on the honey trap that is the multiple 9/11 truth theories.
Fuck diesel... It's NOT that volatile. I'm a welder by trade, and I have welded holes in diesel tanks on semis without so much as completely draining the tank - let alone purging it!!! That is NOT something I would do with a GASOLINE tank!!! When welding on a fuel tank, it's the vapors which cause an explosion, NOT the liquid itself. Gasoline vapors will READILY ignite, diesel vapors WILL NOT. In fact, you can't ignite diesel vapors unless they are under extreme compression. That is why diesel engines run at compression ratios in the area of 19:1 as opposed to gas engines running at about 9:1. To cause diesel to burn, you must ignite the liquid itself, and that is not the case with gasoline!!! And while I'm on the topic of fuel/combustion, it's interesting to note that jet fuel is basically kerosene - and has combustion characteristics much closer to diesel than gasoline; hence the liquid itself must be ignited... The massive fireballs we witnessed when the plane struck the tower was the result of the liquid jet fuel itself burning not vapor from the jet fuel; thus the majority of the fuel in the plane was burned almost immediately. This leaves a large hole in the "official story" of jet fuel running down the elevator shaft pooling in the bottom of the buildings and causing explosions.... I have a smudge pot (you know one of those heaters used in the orange groves in FL in the winter) and burn diesel in it. These things are made of very thin metal, something like 20 gauge. You'll notice the lid on the tank has an adjustment mechanism to control the amount of air allowed in. The more air you allow in, the higher and hotter it burns. I've had flames coming out of the top of mine!!! And yet, AFTER YEARS OF USE IT HASN'T EVEN SO MUCH AS DEFORMED THE "CHIMNEY", LET ALONE MELT DOWN OR COLLAPSE!!! I've had the whole "chimney" glowing red!!! Being a welder by trade, I've also worked in the construction industry. One of the very first things that amazed me upon entry into that field was the massiveness of the steel used in the support columns in the construction of buildings. Being young at the time, I didn't even know they made such massive steel!! I'm talking about I-beams that the web (center of the beam) measured 12 fucking feet(!!!), and the flanges (part at each end of the web that forms the "I" shape) were 5 feet across(!!!) - and these damned things were made of steel 4 inches thick!!! Now if a diesel fire won't melt my little 20 gauge smudge pot, how in hell is it gonna melt steel that measures in inches of thickness??? You may PRETEND to have knowledge of metal, structural support in buildings, combustion, and fuels used for combustion but you don't... I was taught experience is the best teacher, and I have real-world experience in these fields. In fact, I once worked a job where we rebuilt a boiler that had exploded. The boilerhouse itself had skin blown of the sides of the building, steel was mangled and twisted, buckstays were blown apart, cement was broken - in short there was massive damage - but guess what? THE BUILDING ITSELF DID NOT COLLAPSE!!!!!
The steel you welded was probably made by the company I work for. If steel beams are so resistant to the effects of fire then why fire proof them?
I will admit that given a long enough period of time, flame can weaken a steel beam to a point of allowing it to bow under it's own weight... And in fact I have seen this happen too. I once worked a job in a paper mill where a fire started in one of the washers in the bleach plant. The huge industrial "washing machine" (used to was the bleach out of the pulp) was made of fiberglass, and was situated under the roof. This fire raged for over 3 hours, (the sprinkler system failed to put out the fire, and the heat on that floor was too intense to attempt to put it out by means of a fire hose - so they let it burn itself out) spread to the other washers on that floor, and covered approximately 60% of the center of the floor. The beams supporting the ceiling directly above them were rather small by industrial standards (only 8" beams) since they were only supporting the rooftop. They did not have upright supports (columns) in the center of the spans of the beams. Those (unfireproofed) beams DID buckle downward - probably 4 feet in the center. BUT, along with the buckling, there was stretching - to the point that they did not pull the columns (which were considerably heavier) they were attached to out of plumb... The "pancaking" theory is ludicrous. Even if it were possible, the vertical columns would not simply "crush" down with the rest. And even if they did, the impact at each floor would have a slowing effect on the collapse. (Look at multiple vehicle wrecks on icy roads where one rear-ends the car in front of it - thus ramming it into the next and so on. There may be a hundred cars involved, but it stops somewhere, and the further the "domino effect" goes, the less the damage. Granted this example may be horizontal as opposed to vertical; thus taking gravity out of the picture - BUT the force of inertia still applies, and an icy road provides little resistance to the forces of inertia.) The horizontal beams might shear away from the columns, but the columns would stand upright until they had lost support laterally far enough down to tumble sideways. You apparently aren't aware of the strength of steel to forces opposing it vertically. Hell, a 200 lb man can stand on an aluminum beer can without crushing it!!!
Not really - as soon as the steel reaches the 500-600F degrees the strength of the steel beam is gone. heat is the deciding factor not time.
so let me get this straight, I can put my turkey in a 165 degree oven for an hour and dinner is done? Come on schmuck, you are being more ignorant than your usual self. Even if heating it to 600 degrees could weaken the steal sufficiently enough to collapse the building, that would mean that all of the steel supports would have had to been heated to 600 degrees THROUGH AND THROUGH This would take TIME. Look at the turkey, to cook it thoroughly, it must reach an internal temp of 165. That means that you cook it in an oven at a minimum of 325 for many hours In order to heat the steel to a weakened temp of 600 degrees, you would need a fire much hotter than the desired temp, the cooler the temp, the more time it would take for that heat to get the steel to that dangerous temp. Just as with a turkey, you are cooking it at an average minimum of double the desired safe eating temperature for hours until the deepest tissue of the bird reaches that safe eating temperature. It would take TIME for this steel to reach this weakened state, and it would have to happen in all of the floors of BOTH the towers in order for the rubble to be nothing but a mangled melted mess. Just for a good laugh, I would LOVE to hear your explanation of the molten metal in the basement
Listen, Yid speaker - I don't insult you using Yiddish so don't insult me back with that language. It depends on the thickness of the steel - the thicker the steel or the thicker the insulation the slower it heats to the critical temperature. If a chair has four legs and you cut off one leg can you sit on it without falling over? Especially if you are heavy?
If a chair has 300 perimeter legs and you cut 30 of them, and 47 interior legs and you cut 10 of them, can you sit on it without falling?
The world is full of Architects/engineers of high rise buildings and bridges - many of them are not Americans or Westerners and or live in other countries not on good terms with the USA - not one has doubted the thesis that the fires and crash weakened the buildings so much they crashed. If an Indian engineer of repute came out for your thesis I would hop on board with you.
Why do you need an engineer? Just read the NIST report. They examined .25 to .5% of the steel, 3 pieces from the affected floors, determined that none of them saw temperatures in excess of 500c for any significant time, and concluded that intense heat from fire caused the collapse. It doesn't get any shoddier than that, does it? All one has to do is read that to determine the entire report is garbage. It becomes painfully obvious that the fix is in, doesn't it? NIST also admits that they never tested for explosive residue. NEVER! How does one investigate the cause of the catastrophic collapse of 3 buildings, an unprecedented event in the history of mankind, and not even bother to test for explosive residue, unless the fix is in? I would think that a person would have to be incurably brainwashed, or part of the "fix" to believe the official fairy tale, given the above facts.
Why don't you need one?
Any casual reading of sites questioning the 9/11 official story has structural engineers up the ying yang doubting it. People's Daily Online: Why WTC Steel Towers Collapsed at One Blow - September 20, 2001 “Professor Shi Yongjiu, director of civil engineering department of Qinghua University and an expert on steel structure, guesses that the lower part of the WTC twin towers may got seriously damaged. According to steel structure's mechanical nature, the towers shouldn't collapse as late as an hour later after the planes slammed into. What's more, it should be in a way to topple over gradually instead of crashing down as seen in videotapes. It looks more like a directional blast in doing the job of destruction, so he feels that huge damages must have been done at the lower part of the towers. ... He was surprised that a 40-storied supportive building [WTC 7] beside the towers should collapse 6 hours later... Source: htt p://english.people.com.cn/english/200109/20/eng20010920_80655.html -Matthys Levy, Structural Engineer and Co Author of “Why Buildings Fall Down” "If you've seen many of the managed demolitions where they implode a building and they cause it to essentially to fall vertically because they cause all of the vertical columns to fail simultaneously, that's exactly what it looked like and that's what happened." Video: http://www.freepress international.com/discovery.html More expert opinions: -Judy Wood, PhD (Civil Engineering / Mechanical Engineering) Mechanical Engineering Professor at Clemson University “The Case for Controlled Demolition” http://www.911blogger.com/2006/03/mechanical-engineering-professor- from.html -Jerry Russell, PhD (MS in Engineering) “Proof Of Controlled Demolition At The WTC” http: //www.attackonamerica.net/proofofcontrolleddemolitionatwtc.htm -Frank Demartini - Former Harvard Engineering Professor Manager, WTC Construction And Project Management (Died at the WTC on 9-11) January 25, 2001: "The building was designed to have a fully loaded 707 crash into it. That was the largest plane at the time. I believe that the building probably could sustain multiple impacts of jet airliners because this structure is like the mosquito netting on your screen door,... this intense grid,... and the jet plane is just a pencil puncturing that screen netting. It really does nothing to the screen netting." http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/november2004/141104designedtotake.htm -Kevin Ryan – Former Site Manager from Underwriters Labs (UL) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevi n_Ryan On November 11, 2004, Ryan wrote Dr Frank Gayle (NIST), causing his firing from UL. Excerpt: “This story just does not add up. If steel from those buildings did soften or melt, I'm sure we can all agree that this was certainly not due to jet fuel fires of any kind, let alone the briefly burning fires in those towers. That fact should be of great concern to all Americans. Alternatively, the contention that this steel did fail at temperatures around 250C suggests that the majority of deaths on 9/11 were due to a safety-related failure. That suggestion should be of great concern to my company.” http://www.scoop.co.nz/s tories/HL0411/S00177.htm Academic Paper: “Propping Up the War on Terror: Lies about the WTC by NIST and Underwriters Laboratories” (Scheduled for Publication in “9/11 and the American Empire: Intellectuals Speak Out”, Interlink Books, 2006) http:// http://www.sc holarsfor911truth.org/RyanK_PostingVersion.htm March 15, 2006 Lecture: "A 9/11 Whistleblower Examines the Official Conspiracy Theory" Monroe County Public Library, Bloomington, IN One Hour Lecture MP3 34MB: http://news.wfhb.org/mp3/SRO2006 0322.mp3 GWB First Term (2000-2004) Employee: Dr Morgan Reynolds Retired professor of economics at Texas A&M University Former chief economist at US Department of Labor says.... 9/11 = INSIDE JOB http://www.nomoregames.net/ Other Government Insiders Who Say 9/11 Inside Job http://www.911blogger.com/2006/03/lost-its-sheen.html -Van Romero, PhD (Physics) - Expert in Explosive Materials and the Effects of Explosions on Buildings Vice President for Research and Economic Development New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology http://infohost.nmt.edu/~red/van.ht ml Explosives Planted in Towers, New Mexico Tech Expert Says Albuquerque Journal, September 14, 2001 ”My opinion is, based on the videotapes, that after the airplanes hit the World Trade Center there were some explosive devices inside the buildings that caused the towers to collapse” "It would be difficult for something from the plane to trigger an event like that” "It could have been a relatively small amount of explosives placed in strategic points.” Archived Link: http://www.world-action.co.uk/explosives.html -Former Army Sgt. Mark Johnson, Military Demolition Pro "From day one on Sept. 11th, after seeing the footage of the airliner striking the WTC on CNN and seeing explosions happening on lower floors of both towers, I knew right then and there that the towers were purposely being imploded," Source: http://www.arcticbeacon.com/30-Jun-2005.html 4:45 PM stallion4 said... Also see: BYU Physics professor Steven Jones says that pre-positioned explosives brought down the WTC towers and Building 7: Why Indeed Did the WTC Buildings Collapse? http://www.physics.b yu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html
from your link: htt p://english.people.com.cn/english/200109/20/eng20010920_80655.html Professor Wu Huanjia from Qinghua University says in an interview that the big fire must be to blame for softening and melting away the steel, paralyzing and destruction of the towers as mere plane crash is not strong enough to topple the two large tower structures. There were also intrinsic flaws with skyscrapers that had led to the fall of the WTC towers, for such architectural giants must be built of steel, which softens by heat and loses its strength. Of course, refractory coating must be applied when the towers were constructed but you can never expect them to endure such large conflagrations.
You can keep repeating the tired mantra about the noodle limp steel like a broken record all you wish, but we have seen too many markers indicative of thermite and high explosives at work, too many parts of the complex damaged and destroyed by explosions that should not have happened and too many things happen in a timeline that does not match the official story. Nobody is interested in a replay of the official lies of 9 11. The buildings were pulled by the use of high explosives, and it was done to avoid having to spend decades tempering the American mindset for imperialistic war based on the worries of the control of Middle Eastern and Persian Gulf oil resources. It was done to enrich the 'right' people and to 'put limits on freedoms' much as Bush has always had a hard-on to do. You may be stuck in the role of promoting official lies and fairy tales, but the rest of us have moved on to where the real truth of the matter of 9 11 lies. Either come along, or wave bye bye as we leave you in the dust.
#94. To: Ferret Mike, swarthyguy (#93)
When they no longer need to fireproof steel - let me know. When an alternate non demolition explanation can explain away the demolition conspiracy explanation then I can't jump on the bandwagon. Don't fool yourselves - your movement is a non starter. A hookah pipe that the govt uses to distract people the way they used UFOs to hide their black programs.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestThere never has been even a failure of a single primary vertical girder. Ever.
#11. To: Destro, YertleTurtle, Kamala, Swarthguy, Burkeman1 (#1)
I don't know any sky-rise that had 100K of Diesel fuel in storage tanks inside a building either that was cited by the fire dept as a potential fire hazard.
#14. To: innieway, YertleTurtle, Kamala, Swarthguy, Burkeman1 (#11)
You may PRETEND to have knowledge of metal, structural support in buildings, combustion, and fuels used for combustion but you don't...
#23. To: Destro (#14)
If steel beams are so resistant to the effects of fire then why fire proof them?
#24. To: innieway (#23)
(Edited)
will admit that given a long enough period of time,
#63. To: Destro (#24)
as soon as the steel reaches the 500-600F degrees the strength of the steel beam is gone. heat is the deciding factor not time.
#65. To: ladybug (#63)
Come on schmuck, you are being more ignorant than your usual self. Even if heating it to 600 degrees could weaken the steal sufficiently enough to collapse the building, that would mean that all of the steel supports would have had to been heated to 600 degrees THROUGH AND THROUGH This would take TIME.
#70. To: Destro (#65)
If a chair has four legs and you cut off one leg can you sit on it without falling over?
#75. To: Critter, swarthyguy (#70)
If a chair has 300 perimeter legs and you cut 30 of them, and 47 interior legs and you cut 10 of them, can you sit on it without falling?
#77. To: Destro (#75)
If an Indian engineer of repute came out for your thesis I would hop on board with you.
#79. To: Critter (#77)
Why do you need an engineer? Just read the NIST report.
#81. To: Destro (#79)
#91. To: Burkeman1 (#81)
#93. To: Destro (#91)
Replies to Comment # 93. You can keep repeating the tired mantra about the noodle limp steel like a broken record all you wish,
End Trace Mode for Comment # 93.